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i look in the specification of kaiser in htc site, and it shows 256 rom and 128 ram.
when i look in my memory section at my device i saw
storag 153m and program 101mb
can anybody tell me what is missing, im using the originall rom.
am l anderstaning it wrong or there's another reason
The devices OS and applications take up the space not listed in this case 103 and 27 MB, respectively. The missing space is being occupied or used by the installed OS and applications. The space you see is what is left and available for you to use. If you were to erase everything and look at the space then you would see truer values (not that you can).
So whats the difference between ROM memory and RAM memory?
When I install a program on my device (not storage card), am I utilizing space from ROM or RAM?
And is storage ROM or RAM and program is ROM or RAM?
Thanks
Assuming the same terms appy with my TyTN II as with full sized PCs, ROM = Read Only Memory and RAM = Random Access Memory. ROM is Non-Volatile (ie data is not lost when the power is switched off) where as RAM is volatile (why you get a message saying data may be lost if you continue to run down your battery when it's very low. ROM is generally (much) slower for read and write speed than RAM (hence why RAM is used).
In the case of the TyTN II ROM is what is known as flash memory (because it can be overwritten using a process called flashing). It can also be written to in more general use such as when installing programs so I prefer the term Flash rather than ROM because it's not strictly read only in this case.
When the programs are installed into main memory (rather than a card) they will be stored on ROM (so it's not lost when the power is removed) but will be in RAM as well when the PPCs CPU is working with the program.
If the OP nndd12 looks in Start =>Settings => System tab => Device Information => Hardware Tab the RAM and ROM details are in there but the ROM is termed Flash.
Does anybody know how to extract the files from the Part00.raw or the Part01.raw of the KS20 image dump?
I've extracted from Part02.raw with the standard commands from the KaiserKitchen thread, but I can't seem to find the proper incantation for Part00 or Part01.
I'm missing some files (rex_wce.dll and TrsTai_extension.dll), and could really use a look into these files to implement some missing functions that don't exist in the Kaiser's version.
Incidentally, if somebody has the Kaiser's rex_wce.dll, it would help a lot too for code comparison with the KS20's version, eventually.
Good Luck! Contact Chainfire, He's already been there & done that. (To no avail if you're even thinking video issues)
GSLEON3 said:
Good Luck! Contact Chainfire, He's already been there & done that. (To no avail if you're even thinking video issues)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He's not answering his PMs unfortunately for me.
Well this is really surprising, you guys talk about wanting drivers, but the reality is ...
Here I am with partially working .dlls after I hacked up the KS20 ones, rewrote certain portions, and recreated the rest so that I can:
call eglGetDisplay(), got a valid response back
call eglInitialize(), got a valid response, and then some memory allocation dies in pmem_malloc() in the lower levels (specifically in ath2dati.dll) ...
Can I get some help extracting some other files? I've already rewrote msm_clk.dll as posted (notice the date and linker version), and currently I'm working through libgles_cm.dll
Try this utility:
http://legroom.net/software/uniextract
I am not sure if it will do what you need, but it was recommended on the User Customistaion thread for extracting files from exe's and cab's and it is constructed using autoit which is a great freeware pc scripting utility, so it comes from a good pedigree and has been written to cover just about all types of compression.
I hope it works for you and sorry for the wasted effort if it does not as anybody working on this should be encouraged.
Regards
Chapelhill
chapelhill said:
Try this utility:
http://legroom.net/software/uniextract
I am not sure if it will do what you need, but it was recommended on the User Customistaion thread for extracting files from exe's and cab's and it is constructed using autoit which is a great freeware pc scripting utility, so it comes from a good pedigree and has been written to cover just about all types of compression.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I'm trying to extract from a ROM dump which has a much different internal format.
Meantime, I think Chainfire just came through with files I've been asking for. Yay.
So, I've found some old old (June/2007) XIP files for the Kaiser now and I'll see if that's still useful to compare to the KS20's. Anybody got a link on how to extract the XIP from the .raw? Google's not helping me much.
Okay, I've found qooqoo's subthread which gives me the tools: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=334680&page=6
And the actual commands:
mkdir XIP
dumprom.exe Part01.raw -5 -d XIP
Now I have the reference code to properly port these .dlls to the Kaiser. Thanks Chainfire and qooqoo.
is it safe to assume this project is dead?
Apparently, the LG KS20 does not have the needed drivers either.
janys said:
Maybe somebody already posted this...
HTC's driver issue is LG's, too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
btprice2001 said:
Apparently, the LG KS20 does not have the needed drivers either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's some confusion as to what drivers mean. From the fringes I've been diving into, there isn't any specific Q-Dimension 3D support, but there's plenty of ATI-like 2D driver code in there including the ace_ddi interface, and possibly some MPEG2 decoding acceleration.
If the interview is describing 3D driver interface, then that much can probably be agreed to as not used/existing.
NuShrike said:
Well this is really surprising, you guys talk about wanting drivers, but the reality is ...
Here I am with partially working .dlls after I hacked up the KS20 ones, rewrote certain portions, and recreated the rest so that I can:
call eglGetDisplay(), got a valid response back
call eglInitialize(), got a valid response, and then some memory allocation dies in pmem_malloc() in the lower levels (specifically in ath2dati.dll) ...
Can I get some help extracting some other files? I've already rewrote msm_clk.dll as posted (notice the date and linker version), and currently I'm working through libgles_cm.dll
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey.
what did you rewrite? curious how far you got with this.
cmonex said:
what did you rewrite? curious how far you got with this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
redirected memory allocation calls in wce_rex.dll that is named differently in the KS20 version (get_virtual_address() -> RexGetVirtualAddress(), and nulled out free_virtual_address())
nulled out some function calls in TrsTai_extension.dll for calls that only exist in the KS20 version (I have to come back and resolve this with the new files I just got)
bypassed wce_pmem.dll calls to use qct_wce_pmem.dll directly instead (because QctDrv.dll is failing syntactically correct memory alllocation calls) during eglInitialize() (qct_wce_pmem.dll is almost identical to the KS20 version, so I'm assuming wce_pmem.dll + QctDrv.dll is some weird HTC shim layer to serialize memory allocations)
am currently digging through ahi2ati.dll's AhiInit() to see why there's a data abort (illegal memory access) further down in eglInitialize().
I don't program on weekends.
NuShrike said:
redirected memory allocation calls in wce_rex.dll that is named differently in the KS20 version (get_virtual_address() -> RexGetVirtualAddress(), and nulled out free_virtual_address())
nulled out some function calls in TrsTai_extension.dll for calls that only exist in the KS20 version (I have to come back and resolve this with the new files I just got)
bypassed wce_pmem.dll calls to use qct_wce_pmem.dll directly instead (because QctDrv.dll is failing syntactically correct memory alllocation calls) during eglInitialize() (qct_wce_pmem.dll is almost identical to the KS20 version, so I'm assuming wce_pmem.dll + QctDrv.dll is some weird HTC shim layer to serialize memory allocations)
am currently digging through ahi2ati.dll's AhiInit() to see why there's a data abort (illegal memory access) further down in eglInitialize().
I don't program on weekends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a hurdle I can see, most 3D GPU's require allocated memory on boot, or 'shared memory' (itsa friggin pc now), now from what I understand, the kaiser IPL bulks the memory into one wad of addy’s and uses it accordingly, now we need to dedicate some of the system memory as video memory to be dedicated to the GPU on system boot, no nand flash swap as the write rate will hose bits at an unacceptable rate.... This is why HTC would say it is too spensive to allocate programmers, my gawd, someone might have to think... (pffffft) POF...? The existance of an IPL has never been reported, but we know it is there, it functions as a system bios, you know, where in some lamer systems you can allocate deticated video memory.... POF....? Sir, your vast knowledge and presence has been humbly requested...
?Glitch
NuShrike said:
redirected memory allocation calls in wce_rex.dll that is named differently in the KS20 version (get_virtual_address() -> RexGetVirtualAddress(), and nulled out free_virtual_address())
nulled out some function calls in TrsTai_extension.dll for calls that only exist in the KS20 version (I have to come back and resolve this with the new files I just got)
bypassed wce_pmem.dll calls to use qct_wce_pmem.dll directly instead (because QctDrv.dll is failing syntactically correct memory alllocation calls) during eglInitialize() (qct_wce_pmem.dll is almost identical to the KS20 version, so I'm assuming wce_pmem.dll + QctDrv.dll is some weird HTC shim layer to serialize memory allocations)
am currently digging through ahi2ati.dll's AhiInit() to see why there's a data abort (illegal memory access) further down in eglInitialize().
I don't program on weekends.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey,
thanks for the answers
what new files did you get? i have some, wondering which ones you meant there.
?Glitch said:
Here's a hurdle I can see, most 3D GPU's require allocated memory on boot, or 'shared memory' (itsa friggin pc now), now from what I understand, the kaiser IPL bulks the memory into one wad of addy’s and uses it accordingly, now we need to dedicate some of the system memory as video memory to be dedicated to the GPU on system boot, no nand flash swap as the write rate will hose bits at an unacceptable rate.... This is why HTC would say it is too spensive to allocate programmers, my gawd, someone might have to think... (pffffft) POF...? The existance of an IPL has never been reported, but we know it is there, it functions as a system bios, you know, where in some lamer systems you can allocate deticated video memory.... POF....? Sir, your vast knowledge and presence has been humbly requested...
?Glitch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no, there is no IPL on the MSM7xx devices.
there is a PBL that is not reflashable, then that initializes the radio bootloaders, initializing some hardware in the process, then those run the SPL and the radio image. SPL then runs wince
cmonex said:
no, there is no IPL on the MSM7xx devices.
there is a PBL that is not reflashable, then that initializes the radio bootloaders, initializing some hardware in the process, then those run the SPL and the radio image. SPL then runs wince
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So, this write once PBL would remove any ability to deticate RAM to GPU and establish a handle for GPU drivers to use, unless there is a way to modify boot perameters, has anyone put the PBL through a debugger to check to see if there is an optional perameter file referenced?
?Glitch
cmonex said:
what new files did you get? i have some, wondering which ones you meant there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never had the wce_pem, wce_rex, and TrsTai_extension dlls from both devices to compare since some is part of the XIP. I don't know WinMob well enough to know about extracting this stuff then.
My first initial pass guessed what calls I could redirect. Now that I can see, that's why qct_wce_pmem is preferred over wce_pmem now, esp since the normal wce_pmem failed a simple pmem_malloc call for no reason that bypassing directly to qct_ worked fine.
NuShrike said:
I never had the wce_pem, wce_rex, and TrsTai_extension dlls from both devices to compare since some is part of the XIP. I don't know WinMob well enough to know about extracting this stuff then.
My first initial pass guessed what calls I could redirect. Now that I can see, that's why qct_wce_pmem is preferred over wce_pmem now, esp since the normal wce_pmem failed a simple pmem_malloc call for no reason that bypassing directly to qct_ worked fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh you can just link me the rom image that has the stuff, i will extract it for you from xip.
?Glitch said:
So, this write once PBL would remove any ability to deticate RAM to GPU and establish a handle for GPU drivers to use, unless there is a way to modify boot perameters, has anyone put the PBL through a debugger to check to see if there is an optional perameter file referenced?
?Glitch
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nope, the PBL isn't even HTC code ... it just loads the radio bootloaders. its purpose is really just to implement uncrackable signing (but HTC screwed up there of course so we have nice sim unlockers now).
and you can't debug the PBL, lol
not even the htc part of the radio bootloader counts, it runs on its own ARM chip - initializing the RAM for the OS is totally the responsibility of the SPL and the CE kernel.
though of course it initializes some GPIOs etc but not the memory mapping for the ARM11.
cmonex said:
oh you can just link me the rom image that has the stuff, i will extract it for you from xip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, but I meant that Chainfire already helped me out with some initial files, and then I figured out how to extract everything else myself afterwards now that I had the necessary keyword: XIP ...
Hi, I'm new with the tilt , i just flashed with a new rom and now i only have 85.32mb for programs and 113.17mb for storage, how can i increase the memory.
In case i can't increase it i will flash the original att (if i find the rom somewhere)
Please help.
Thanks.
ricomilion said:
Hi, I'm new with the tilt , i just flashed with a new rom and now i only have 85.32mb for programs and 113.17mb for storage, how can i increase the memory.
In case i can't increase it i will flash the original att (if i find the rom somewhere)
Please help.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well for starters, what rom did you flash?
i flashed RUU_Kaiser_CINGULAR_WWE_ rom 3.55.502.1 wwe radio 1.65.20.29
ricomilion said:
Hi, I'm new with the tilt , i just flashed with a new rom and now i only have 85.32mb for programs and 113.17mb for storage, how can i increase the memory.
In case i can't increase it i will flash the original att (if i find the rom somewhere)
Please help.
Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well alot of the new windows mobile 6.1 roms take another 15% of the program memory for overhead and system performance so typically you only have 85. Some chef's have been able to by tweaking increase that number but most are around 87-89. the only rom that i have seen that is wm6.1 base and gives you 100 program memory is hyperdragon 3 (there might be others..). Haven't tried it so don't know much on how it is. As far as storage memory goes really that is increased/decreased by number of programs you have installed. Just like your pc more program installs less storage memory ... plus more files (whether be music, video, ringtones, themes, etc) less storage memory. The best solution for extra storage memory is to get a storage card.
You can experiment flashing different roms and see which one gives you best system memory and start off storage memory. pretty much all the chefs do a great job of keeping their roms clean and compact so very little storage memory is used.
I would recommend reading around and following various rom threads that we have here to gain better understanding of each individual rom so you can flash the one that suits your taste.
thesire said:
well alot of the new windows mobile 6.1 roms take another 15% of the program memory for overhead and system performance so typically you only have 85. Some chef's have been able to by tweaking increase that number but most are around 87-89. the only rom that i have seen that is wm6.1 base and gives you 100 program memory is hyperdragon 3 (there might be others..). Haven't tried it so don't know much on how it is. As far as storage memory goes really that is increased/decreased by number of programs you have installed. Just like your pc more program installs less storage memory ... plus more files (whether be music, video, ringtones, themes, etc) less storage memory. The best solution for extra storage memory is to get a storage card.
You can experiment flashing different roms and see which one gives you best system memory and start off storage memory. pretty much all the chefs do a great job of keeping their roms clean and compact so very little storage memory is used.
I would recommend reading around and following various rom threads that we have here to gain better understanding of each individual rom so you can flash the one that suits your taste.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So that means if i downgrade to WM6 i will get over 100mb, thats why i had 101mb+ with the original att rom.
Thanks for your info.
This forum Rock.
Generally speaking, you would have to get a phone with more memory in order to increase the amount of memory.
Dude, unless you are running out of memory, i.e. device programs are initiating "Low Memory Warning", don't worry about it. After all of my proggies, many, many, I have about 89mb Storage & 39mb Program. Never have run out & I am a very heavy user with many resource heavy apps..
The OS automatically adjusts between what is available overall , including what is in both Program & storage memory as more memory is required in one or the other. So when you install more it adjust both storage & program memory accordingly. This is not like older devices where you have a storage area & a program area that are seperate. The memory for both is the same.
The amount you have is not bad at all.
There are also several things that affect memory. Installed programs, What was cooked into the rom, the Page Pool, etc.
At any rate, this thread has very little, if anything to do with ROM development, so I'm moving it to General Section.
I agree with GSLEON. I too have tons of apps installed to the device and its never really sluggish.
Also I hear Ginko Baloba is Good for memory.
thesire said:
... Some chef's have been able to by tweaking increase that number but most are around 87-89. the only rom that i have seen that is wm6.1 base and gives you 100 program memory is hyperdragon 3 (there might be others..). Haven't tried it so don't know much on how it is. ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true - e.g. HyperDragon III Lite has 101 MB of Program memory available. See my screenshots. Attached.
gabriel31337 said:
It's true - e.g. HyperDragon III Lite has 101 MB of Program memory available. See my screenshots. Attached.[/QUOTE
udK 8.0 V2 Vega 6.1 Rom also have 101.32 MB Program memory available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I recall correctly the max amount of memory is also related to the page pool (PP) size.
By default the kaiser has 113MB maximum memory, and with the default 12MB PP that leaves 101MB (113-12) for programs.
If you were to increase the PP to say, 32MB, then the memory left for programs would be 81MB (113-32).
I'm looking for this ROM, anybody have it yet ?
gabriel31337 said:
It's true - e.g. HyperDragon III Lite has 101 MB of Program memory available. See my screenshots. Attached.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi,
I bought the Indian 2.75G version of the htc touch diamond without the extra in the front.
I checked the task manager memory and this is what it looks like:
http://gidisrael.googlepages.com/myDiamondmem.jpg
Is that correct?
If I'm not mistaken program memory is supposed to be 192MB and Rom:256MB??
Thanks so much
Google is your friend.
As far as I know, 64Mb is reserved for the GPU (+ maybe other phone functions). Here for more.
I did do some searching, but I guess I would'nt have found an article with the title "64MB eaten by aliens".
Anyway, thanks so much. I'm a little confused about the ROM now, what about the 256 MB ROM, where did it dissappear and why does it say I have 83.44 MB storage memory.
After some searching I found this on an archived post here:
128Mb of RAM speaks for itself. Of the 256Mb of flash however, 128Mb contains the operating system, the other 128Mb are available to the end user to install programs and add documents. When flashing any given device, the available flashrom is first filled up with the OS, after which a second amount is allocated to the extended rom area, and finally the rest is made available to the end user.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is this correct?
Thanks.
I did a bit of research and that quote seems quite correct as to what is stored in the flash ROM:
- bootloader
- OS
- extended ROM area (themes, customizations and apps that install immediately after a hard-reset)
- (lastly) the user-available portion.
Your 83Mb is similar to my free storage mem.
I suppose getting a ROM with all the unnecessary apps removed is your best bet of increasing your program storage size. Also, I think chefs move some apps into the extended flashROM area, making more space available to program storage.
H3x said:
Google is your friend.
As far as I know, 64Mb is reserved for the GPU (+ maybe other phone functions). Here for more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've read in other threads, both the Diamond and the Pro lacks graphics drivers for hardware processed rendering so what's the use of having a GPU then?
everyone would like to know
mostly to lure people in with a spec that doesnt live up to itself.
I've done a lot of searching and haven't been able to find a clear answer on this one.
Just so terminology is clear...a standard computer running an operating system stores applications on a hard drive. When a user runs a program, it is loaded into physical memory/RAM and executed. A multi-tasking OS running on a computer with a single-core CPU will hold more than one program in physical memory and switch between them such that, to the user, it seems that more than one program is being executed at the same time.
Now, on the G1, there is 192MB of SDRAM, of which about 71MB is available for storing user-installed applications. I'm assuming this is analogous to the hard drive on a standard computer--along with the 256MB of flashable ROM for the operating system, etc. So, when a user runs a program, where is it loaded? In other words, what is the analogy to the physical memory on a standard computer? Is it part of the 71MB of RAM used to store applications? If so, if I use the entire 71MB of RAM to store applications, will I have no physical memory left to run apps?
And, if I root my phone and move all my apps to the SD card, does having the entire 71MB of RAM free allow me to have more programs open and running, analogous to having more physical memory/RAM installed on a standard computer?
Thanks much for the info!
Let's clear up terminology some more.
The G1 has 256MB of ROM (Storage) with ~71MB left after install of the stock image. The remaining 60-80MB (depending on ROM) is what is used by default to install apps and for purposes of cache, acting in the equivalent purpose to a hard drive. If you use Apps2SD this is the storage you are extending.
The G1 has 192MB of RAM. This is used to run the programs and base OS. When RAM runs low the Android OS will close programs to free up enough memory to allow the foreground application the memory it needs. If you create a swap file or swap partition this is the memory you are extending.
I hope that clears it up.
Ah! So that's what I was missing. I didn't realize that the 256MB of ROM was the "hard drive" for the G1. That makes a lot of sense. Thanks much.
JanetPanic said:
Let's clear up terminology some more.
The G1 has 256MB of ROM (Storage) with ~71MB left after install of the stock image. The remaining 60-80MB (depending on ROM) is what is used by default to install apps and for purposes of cache, acting in the equivalent purpose to a hard drive. If you use Apps2SD this is the storage you are extending.
The G1 has 192MB of RAM. This is used to run the programs and base OS. When RAM runs low the Android OS will close programs to free up enough memory to allow the foreground application the memory it needs. If you create a swap file or swap partition this is the memory you are extending.
I hope that clears it up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your answers is right and thanks for the useful information. I have one question though!! when I install any ROM and do a "free" command on terminal, it tells me total memory 97MB, free memory 3MB or 4MB etc.
I want to know that G1 has built in 192MB ram then why it shows 97MB only? where the rest goes?
ibraheeemz said:
Your answers is right and thanks for the useful information. I have one question though!! when I install any ROM and do a "free" command on terminal, it tells me total memory 97MB, free memory 3MB or 4MB etc.
I want to know that G1 has built in 192MB ram then why it shows 97MB only? where the rest goes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
On the EBI0 HTC Dream there is to my knowledge the following:
8MB @0x00000000
32MB @0x02000000
110MB @0x10000000
------------------------
150MB accessible by linux
102MB (103MB with my recent patch) is general purpose (~5MB reserved by the kernel allowing you to see the 97/98)
48MB (or 47MB) are either in small holes or used for hardware communication or other special tasks (video ram, camera ram, memory log buffer ect)
42MB not listed is used by the radio firmware; that controls access to the entire device