Ok, I've been trying to get to the bottom of this problem for a long time.
I've got unilimited HSDPA GPRS on my Tilt, so I tether to my laptop. Kaiser is connected through a 1Amp powered USB hub to a laptop. Tilt was just lying on the desk, and I noticed several interesting things:
1. If Kaiser is at 100% charge - the green light (power) will stay on for a long time, about 40-60 minutes.
2. If Kaiser is NOT at 100% charge, it will charge (orange light) but won't reach 100%. It will stop charging in about 20-30 minutes.
3. If I put Kaiser on a cup, so that there's nothing under it and air moves freely all the way around the Kaiser - I get around 40-60 minutes of charging even when battery is less than 100%. If it is 100%, I can get up to 1.5 hours or so.
4. Whenether it stops charging - I notice that the back of Kaiser gets pretty high.
5. Every 40-60 minutes the charging light comes on again and charges for about 10-20 minutes (gives couple % to battery), then comes off again.
6. BatteryStatus app shows:
6.1 When charge light is ON: + some MAh, don't remember exact number, but it's like 10 or 20.. very low charge
6.2 When charge light is OFF: full battery drain, -400 or somewhere around there (can't remember). It seems that power flow through USB port just stops, disconnects.
7. I see same results when using car charger and stock AC power adapter.
8. Traffic definitelly affects it. If I just have HSDPA on and not using it - it charges fine, it seems. When I start using up the traffic (download files, watch TV, etc) it starts to heat up and stops charging after some time.
It seems to me that the problem with Kaiser stopping to charge when using HSDPA is caused by heat. There must be something on the hardware that turns off charging if the processor/MB/hardware is overheating. I guess charging the battery generates more heat than using the battery, or why else would it turn off charging when overheating?
Just thought that this, perhaps, would be interesting to some developers or people who have the same problem. Maybe someone can put Kaiser in front of a good fan and see what kind of result does that give - maybe it will keep charging.
Assuming that this is true, I don't suppose a fix is possible. Except for, perhaps, switching to slower connection (not applicable in my case) or putting kaiser on a bag of ice.
DarkDvr said:
Ok, I've been trying to get to the bottom of this problem for a long time.
I've got unilimited HSDPA GPRS on my Tilt, so I tether to my laptop. Kaiser is connected through a 1Amp powered USB hub to a laptop. Tilt was just lying on the desk, and I noticed several interesting things:
1. If Kaiser is at 100% charge - the green light (power) will stay on for a long time, about 40-60 minutes.
2. If Kaiser is NOT at 100% charge, it will charge (orange light) but won't reach 100%. It will stop charging in about 20-30 minutes.
3. If I put Kaiser on a cup, so that there's nothing under it and air moves freely all the way around the Kaiser - I get around 40-60 minutes of charging even when battery is less than 100%. If it is 100%, I can get up to 1.5 hours or so.
4. Whenether it stops charging - I notice that the back of Kaiser gets pretty high.
It seems to me that the problem with Kaiser stopping to charge when using HSDPA is caused by heat. There must be something on the hardware that turns off charging if the processor/MB/hardware is overheating. I guess charging the battery generates more heat than using the battery, or why else would it turn off charging when overheating?
Just thought that this, perhaps, would be interesting to some developers or people who have the same problem. Maybe someone can put Kaiser in front of a good fan and see what kind of result does that give - maybe it will keep charging.
Assuming that this is true, I don't suppose a fix is possible. Except for, perhaps, switching to slower connection (not applicable in my case) or putting kaiser on a bag of ice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does the Batterystatus app read in all above situations?
Since I exchanged my Kaiser, I don't feel the unit getting hot anymore. The previous unit used to get v.hot using wi-fi and 3G/HSDPA - Possible fault?
smads said:
What does the Batterystatus app read in all above situations?
Since I exchanged my Kaiser, I don't feel the unit getting hot anymore. The previous unit used to get v.hot using wi-fi and 3G/HSDPA - Possible fault?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Scary... I experienced this for the first time last night. Was streaming some vid from my tversity server whilst on the mains charger. All of a sudden my Kaiser got extremely hot. I immediately stopped streaming and let it cool.
I don't think it stopped charging though but I guess it makes sense that it would be protected against overheating.
The only thing I can suggest is try charging with .5 amp... not actually sure that it would charge too well at that though, especially if you're giving it a good workout at the same time.
DarkDvr said:
Ok, I've been trying to get to the bottom of this problem for a long time.
I've got unilimited HSDPA GPRS on my Tilt, so I tether to my laptop. Kaiser is connected through a 1Amp powered USB hub to a laptop. Tilt was just lying on the desk, and I noticed several interesting things:
1. If Kaiser is at 100% charge - the green light (power) will stay on for a long time, about 40-60 minutes.
2. If Kaiser is NOT at 100% charge, it will charge (orange light) but won't reach 100%. It will stop charging in about 20-30 minutes.
3. If I put Kaiser on a cup, so that there's nothing under it and air moves freely all the way around the Kaiser - I get around 40-60 minutes of charging even when battery is less than 100%. If it is 100%, I can get up to 1.5 hours or so.
4. Whenether it stops charging - I notice that the back of Kaiser gets pretty high.
It seems to me that the problem with Kaiser stopping to charge when using HSDPA is caused by heat. There must be something on the hardware that turns off charging if the processor/MB/hardware is overheating. I guess charging the battery generates more heat than using the battery, or why else would it turn off charging when overheating?
Just thought that this, perhaps, would be interesting to some developers or people who have the same problem. Maybe someone can put Kaiser in front of a good fan and see what kind of result does that give - maybe it will keep charging.
Assuming that this is true, I don't suppose a fix is possible. Except for, perhaps, switching to slower connection (not applicable in my case) or putting kaiser on a bag of ice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try without that 1Amp powered USB hub to a laptop....
1Amp is max i gues... so maby it's giving less, so it take a long time to get from 80% to 100% and yep lot off heat....
smads said:
What does the Batterystatus app read in all above situations?
Since I exchanged my Kaiser, I don't feel the unit getting hot anymore. The previous unit used to get v.hot using wi-fi and 3G/HSDPA - Possible fault?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't use it anymore, but before, if I remember correctly, it showed around small charge (+) when light is on.. then, when phone stops charging it used to drop to full battery drain, around -400 MAh or something like that.
So you got a new Kaiser and it doesn't heat up when using HSDPA? Really?! Have you tried using HSDPA for a long time (actually using the traffic like tethering, MobiTV, etc..)
SatScan said:
Try without that 1Amp powered USB hub to a laptop....
1Amp is max i gues... so maby it's giving less, so it take a long time to get from 80% to 100% and yep lot off heat....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see exact same problems when connected to a AC power supply that it came with. Same problem when using car charger.. and same problem when powering by USB without the AC adapter.
Here's my theory... Lithium ion batteries have on-board microprocessors to protect the battery and device from damage. If the battery gets hot the processor will shut down the charging to prevent damage. No matter what tweaks you do to the device or modifications to the charger this on board processor will override and shut down charging if it deemed it was necessary.
-Jay
DarkDvr said:
I don't use it anymore, but before, if I remember correctly, it showed around small charge (+) when light is on.. then, when phone stops charging it used to drop to full battery drain, around -400 MAh or something like that.
So you got a new Kaiser and it doesn't heat up when using HSDPA? Really?! Have you tried using HSDPA for a long time (actually using the traffic like tethering, MobiTV, etc..)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, I said the replacement didn't get hot - read uncomfortably hot - It does get warm, but only in the same way it does when taking a long phone call. My first kaiser used to get extremely hot when charging which indicated a short somewhere. All is well now though.
I hope you can get this sorted though - are you able to get a replacement?
smads said:
No, I said the replacement didn't get hot - read uncomfortably hot - It does get warm, but only in the same way it does when taking a long phone call. My first kaiser used to get extremely hot when charging which indicated a short somewhere. All is well now though.
I hope you can get this sorted though - are you able to get a replacement?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahh, I see.
Yeah I think I'd be able to... but mine doesn't get "extremely hot".. it's just.. warm to very warm. It seems normal for me, don't think it's heating anymore than it should.
Have anyone had this problem with 3G (not hsdpa)? Cuz if it happens in 3G as well - that means another reason to be pissed at HTC - they've design kaiser in such a way that you cannot charge and use HSDPA at the same time.
This problem can be easily recreated and a result from other user would tell if it some device or not.
HSPDA with streaming music while charging = warm
HSPDA with streaming video while charging device = Extremely hot
At this point the USB charging will shut off for whatever reason. I just wondering why the phone is putting out that much heat and can it cause problems since I am starting to stream video via HSPDA while charging a lot.
DarkDvr said:
Ahh, I see.
Yeah I think I'd be able to... but mine doesn't get "extremely hot".. it's just.. warm to very warm. It seems normal for me, don't think it's heating anymore than it should.
Have anyone had this problem with 3G (not hsdpa)? Cuz if it happens in 3G as well - that means another reason to be pissed at HTC - they've design kaiser in such a way that you cannot charge and use HSDPA at the same time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe we finally figured out why they included the option to disable charging when connected to a PC..
XSIVSPD said:
Maybe we finally figured out why they included the option to disable charging when connected to a PC..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was just thinking that on some systems it might have interfered with craptive sync. I never guessed that it was because of direct charging issues.
Do you still have problems if you are plugged into the OEM charger, and not a USB port or hub?
-Jay
Jay2TheRescue said:
I was just thinking that on some systems it might have interfered with craptive sync. I never guessed that it was because of direct charging issues.
Do you still have problems if you are plugged into the OEM charger, and not a USB port or hub?
-Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep. I tried tethering through WiFi (successfully), and same result. Maybe even heats up more, since now there's one more module to power up.
Somebody told me some time ago that iPod charger fixes these problems... can anybody confirm that?
DarkDvr said:
Yep. I tried tethering through WiFi (successfully), and same result. Maybe even heats up more, since now there's one more module to power up.
Somebody told me some time ago that iPod charger fixes these problems... can anybody confirm that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My Kaiser would get hot with a teathered WiFi data connection, but I don't think it ever stopped charging on me.
-Jay
message deleted
Jay2TheRescue said:
My Kaiser would get hot with a teathered WiFi data connection, but I don't think it ever stopped charging on me.
-Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm.. sorry, but, are you sure? Try tetheting through a powered USB and.. I dunno.. do a big download or something, play an online game.. do something traffic intensive.. it should stop charging.. if it won't - hell, please let me know!
con_ritmo said:
i have an att tilt with the stock rom minus the bloatware.
when i installed battery status (basic version) i noticed that my charging became extremely slow. with the ac charger after the battery status install...it registered +350ma, then it fell to +110ma and wouldn't go any higher, no matter if i soft-reset or not...sometimes it was simply 0. i tried usb connection, ac connection, it didn't make a difference. the charging crawled along slower than i had ever seen it. 39%...40%..........41%. i had enough and i deleted battery status and softreset.
when i rebooted the phone, the battery immediately read 100% (from 41% before the reboot)!!!! and the charging was back to normal.
so my suggestion is to see if removing battery status...and see if that helps?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's really bizzare.. I had BS for a long time and never seen any problems, actually.. I just reflashed and haven't installed BS on it (I have no need for it now). We'll see if it makes any difference.. I hope it does.
DarkDvr said:
Hmm.. sorry, but, are you sure? Try tetheting through a powered USB and.. I dunno.. do a big download or something, play an online game.. do something traffic intensive.. it should stop charging.. if it won't - hell, please let me know!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I never got teathering to work through USB. I'd either teather through WiFi or BT with the a/c charger plugged in. I'd imagine teathering through WiFi would be the worst. Most times I teather I'm just reading email, visiting various forums, and on rare occasions I'm downloading music. I'll have to try later and see what happens while I download music over a teathered WiFi connection...
-Jay
My Kaiser was absolutely baking last night.
I have a stuck pixel so was using a video that I found somewhere that you play on a continuous loop. The phone wasn't completely flat when I started playing the video but within half an hour or so the low batt notification popped up so I stuck it on charge (supplied mains charger).
I was connected to wifi but wasn't actually doing anything with it (video being played from sd card), in fact I wasn't even using the phone, it was just sat on the side charging and playing the video.
About an hour later I came back to the phone to find it was extremely hot. So hot the heat had travelled right through the phone body and even the screen was hot to touch and the battery was still flat so had clearly stopped charging.
I immediately switched the phone off and removed the battery, even then it took an age to cool down.
I don't know whether to get on to Orange for a replacement... I don't think it's right that it should get that hot.
This has been discussed before but some nice new information is coming out in this thread that ties a few things together.
The Lithium battery does have an onboard charging management system that will stop charge if the battery overheats but also if this heat is combined with high current drain. This should be at a precise point but I have experimented with three types of battery and get very different results between the three AND also between batteries of the same type.
The best performing battery seems to be the latest Samsung (P/N 35H00086-00M) with the external 'X' shaped heat spreader on the back that connects to the four earthing points in the battery compartment. Ealier batteries and some 3rd party batteries have this earthing spreader covered with potting compound or even omitted.
One other item I have found, a 1A rated USB port does not give a continous 1A output. Most ports are only rated at 1A surge and will only give out approx 600mA continuous before IT'S own thermal management system cuts off and kills the USB completely, this is probably the cause of comms loss by some people.
Nice informative thread DarkDvr.
I use my phone as a hotspot for my laptop an ipod. Whenever I have a big data transfer my phone dies after a bit. This happens whenit is plugged into tha wall charger or usb. This only seems to happen onthe newer roms cyn's 4.0.2 is what I'm on now.
Does anyone know why the phone can't charge fast enuf?
jady said:
I use my phone as a hotspot for my laptop an ipod. Whenever I have a big data transfer my phone dies after a bit. This happens whenit is plugged into tha wall charger or usb. This only seems to happen onthe newer roms cyn's 4.0.2 is what I'm on now.
Does anyone know why the phone can't charge fast enuf?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i believe your phone always charges at the same rate unless you have bad cells in your current batter, which you most likely dont
my g1 also does the same thing, this is because your phone is using 3g (or edge depending on connection) as well as wifi at the same time, for heavy data traffic. This, along with other processes running on your g1, cause the battery to die quicker than normal usage. The only thing id suggest is to turn off wifi, and aut sync and so on while using wifi tether, also turn your screen off while tethering, basically anything to limit the power consumption of your g1 to a minimum. But even then, when downloading large amounts of data to my netbook, my g1 still does die, its a slow death, but its inevitable for me.
Same thing with my phone, so it's not isolated. I think it's due to a known problem of the battery not reporting the correct level. I have found that a reboot or shutdown and reboot usually works well, also, I don't know if it's related or not, but leaving the phone sitting on a well ventilated surface and having it lcd screen down seems to keep it cooler and the charging normal as well. I hope the battery level thing gets fixed soon.
Wootroot pretty much said it all.
So is there a usb tethering app other than pdanet? Pdanet seemed pretty slow when I used it b4......
After testing last night and the night before. I have the result. 1st night I had the DS7 turned off, morning I woke up, was fully charged. Last night I left the device on. Woke up overnight still wasnt charged up. Now this doesnt seem promising for USB charging..
I know from G1 the AC charge always lasted longer then USB charge. Since USB can only charge to a maximum voltage. Guess the DS7 on 4g mode just uses more then it can charge. Kinda crappy. =/
I agree with that. I think it can be solved with a custom ROM using an optimized Kernel. That's what happened to the HTC G2, with the custom Kernel, it runs smoothly and battery last as hell.
Can you underclock with the stock kernel using something like SetCPU? Maybe with the screen off and set to a minimum clock speed it would do better.
SetCPU does indeed work. But I think it already lowers the CPU on its own when the screen is off. I think it has more to do with the 4g radio battery drain then it does the CPU.
The Streak 7 does not trickle charge via USB. It must be plugged in to charge.
Sent from my Dell Streak 7 using XDA App
Well I can confirm that too. Came to report that it wont matter about radio or cpu speed. USB doesnt charge the battery but it DOES power the device. So USB tethering will keep the device on and tethered and not drain the battery, it just wont charge it.
HOWEVER it WILL charge the battery IF the device is turned off via usb.
This is very common with tablet devices these days. Many Android tablets as well as the iPad do this. A USB "Y" cable connected to 2 USB ports simultaneously works though. Otherwise there simply aren't enough amps going to the unit. Newer USB ports that provide more than the 5V / 1 AMP current output also don't have this issue.
Ok update on something:
While Device is off, It charges to full. Plain and simple.
While device is on and usb tethering only to your PC. No battery drain, no charging. (Which is GOOD!)
While device is on and you are playing a game like gun bros or something more intensive while 4g radio is on or so, battery will drain.
So it does seem that if you do alot while on USB you will still get a drain, just not as fast. But since it doesnt charge it at all. Losing even 1% at a time.. is =/
I turned my XT860 off while it was charging today because I thought it would charger faster. Instead, it fully discharged. I had to disconnect it and reconnect in order for it to start charging again.
Here's what I observed:
1. Battery was dead. Plugged it in to charge (into my laptop)
2. After some time, the device turned on.
3. I turned it off, because I thought that it would charger faster that way.
4. I checked it hours later and found that it wouldn't turn on, not even to show a low battery alert. It's still plugged in. So I unplugged and plugged it back in, and now the white charging light is on.
Anyway seen this behaviour before?
Some laptops use a low power usb connection. A lot of the time this is true when the laptop is running on battery power. I know that charging mode actually requires an os running (which is why everyone always recommends keeping your phone charged before doing an SBF recovery), so I can easily see how if your laptop was sending the minimum power for data connectivity, and your phone was running in "charge mode" how it could drain.
That being said, I usually carry a upgraded my battery to the verizon extended, and also carry around a fully charged original battery, as well as an energi2go XP2000.
Sent from my XT860 using xda premium
danifunker said:
Some laptops use a low power usb connection. A lot of the time this is true when the laptop is running on battery power. I know that charging mode actually requires an os running (which is why everyone always recommends keeping your phone charged before doing an SBF recovery), so I can easily see how if your laptop was sending the minimum power for data connectivity, and your phone was running in "charge mode" how it could drain.
That being said, I usually carry a upgraded my battery to the verizon extended, and also carry around a fully charged original battery, as well as an energi2go XP2000.
Sent from my XT860 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, people recommend that you have your phone charged before doing an SBF is because the phone will not allow any programming to take place unless it has more than 50% battery. I discovered this the hard way when I bricked my phone with a low battery and was unable to charge it because it had was unable to boot. I wound up having to "hotwire" a charger directly to the battery terminals.