Database Develop

[BENCHMARKS]Kernel Features, common misconceptions, myths busted

Hello, here are some benchmark i made to test if some features being used in kernel development are usefull, useless, bull**** or make things worse.
HOW I DID THE TESTS
DEVICE= i9023.
ENVIRONMENT= fixed 25° Celsius.
OS= ANDROID 4.4.1 JRO03E Factory Image by Google.
SOFTWARE USED= 0xBenchmark 1.1.5 - AnTuTu Benchmark 2.9 - Screen Timeout Toggle.
OTHER TOOLS= A/C Charger / Standard Chronometer.
KERNEL= Kernels are built from source using the standard herring defconfig.
Additional notes:
The system is booted up once, every tutorial is closed, 0xbenchmark, Antutu and Screen Timeout Toggle are installed, airplane mode is toggled, system is rebooted in recovery, battery stats are deleted, cache and dalvik are cleared, system is nand backupped.
Every test starts after 30 min of phone off to let him cool, restoring the nand backup and waiting 5 min after system is booted up. Phone is connected to A/C charger.
Kernel are swapped after the nand restore.
Tests are done 5 times and then the average is calculated && till results are almost the same every run.
TEST N. 1
".. i use teh latest toolchain, mah kernel is imba ima pro !!111!1one!!eleven"
Google toolchain 4.4.3 vs Google toolchain 4.6
This test is inspired by an Ezekeel work that demonstrate how every different toolchain from the google base 4.4.3 used to compile our NS kernel resulted in 0 increased performance. Same goes for "optimized" compiler flags. You can see some bench here.
What i'm going to do is to test latest google prebuilt toolchain and see if it differs from above test.
- 0xBenchmark reds results are better.
Code:
Toolchain 4.4.3 Toolchain 4.6
Linpack [COLOR="Red"]18,81[/COLOR] 18,31
C [COLOR="Red"]21,65[/COLOR] 21,15
FFT [COLOR="Red"]13,92[/COLOR] 13,59
JSOr [COLOR="Red"]39,79[/COLOR] 39,14
MCi [COLOR="Red"]7,20[/COLOR] 6,60
Smm [COLOR="Red"]17,80[/COLOR] 17,45
dLUmf [COLOR="Red"]29,61[/COLOR] 29,17
- AnTuTu reds results are better.
Code:
Toolchain 4.4.3 Toolchain 4.6
RAM [COLOR="Red"]260[/COLOR] 257
CPU Integer 416 416
CPU Float-Point [COLOR="Red"]106[/COLOR] 105
GFX 2D [COLOR="Red"]278[/COLOR] 277
GFX 3D [COLOR="Red"]1115[/COLOR] 1111
TL;DR
USING LATEST GOOGLE TOOLCHAIN DOES IMPROVE KERNEL PERFORMANCE? NO
TEST N.2
"..undervolting teh lcd display MUST save battery!!"
LCD @ 3.0 V vs LCD undervolted to 2.4V
Same environment as before. Since % battery are not always accurate i made 3 tests:
2.1: let phone fully discharge, charge it up for 30 min. Boot it up, put max brightness and count how much time passes till it poweroff by himself.
2.2: let phone fully charge, boot it up, put max brightness and count how much time passes till it loose 10 points %.
2.3: let phone fully charge, boot it up, put max brightness and count how much time passes till it goes from 60% to 50%.
RESULTS
After days of tests, can pretty sure say that at the cost of 20% undervolt (from 3.0 to 2.4) there isn't any noticeable battery saving. What i came up with is something like 5%, that means something like 10 more screen time with standard use, even less, and considering this small margin, can also be unrelated at all to the undervolt.
Remember these tests were made on a slcd panel not amoled.
Did i say these tests were made on an i9023?
Tests made on slcd i9023.
TL;DR
THERE IS ANY NOTICEABLE BATTERY SAVING UNDERVOLTING THE LCD?NO
TEST 3
".. ye ye but removing lot of crap makes mah kernel faster!"
Stock Kernel vs Config tweaked (debug and crap removed) Kernel
Removed all possible debuggers, governors, tv tuners radio and all unused crap.
Let's see if it's really better.
- 0xBenchmark reds results are better.
Code:
Stock Kernel Cleaned Kernel
Linpack [COLOR="Red"]18,81[/COLOR] 18,72
C [COLOR="Red"]21,65[/COLOR] 21,54
FFT [COLOR="Red"]13,92[/COLOR] 13,65
JSOr 39,79 [COLOR="Red"]39,85[/COLOR]
MCi [COLOR="Red"]7,20[/COLOR] 6,77
Smm 17,80 [COLOR="Red"]17,82[/COLOR]
dLUmf [COLOR="Red"]29,61[/COLOR] 29,54
- AnTuTu reds results are better.
Code:
Stock Kernel Cleaned Kernel
RAM 260 [COLOR="Red"]261[/COLOR]
CPU Integer 416 416
CPU Float-Point [COLOR="Red"]106[/COLOR] 104
GFX 2D 278 278
GFX 3D 1115 [COLOR="Red"]1116[/COLOR]
TL;DR
REMOVING CRAP FROM KERNEL LIKE UNUSED DRIVERS, USELESS GOVERNORS, ALL DEBUGS, DO INCREASE KERNEL PERFORMANCE? NO
TEST 4
".. ye ye u fools seeking big numberz! Merging kernel with latest linux mainline makes teh battery drop fastah"
Kernel merged with linux 3.0.39 / 3.0.40 / 3.0.41
Same standard condition, let phone full drain with all 4 kernels in idle / airplane mode and standard usage.
RESULTS
After comparing 4 different kernel the battery stats were all the same, no weird wakelocks no battery drains. Also with standard usage, with data always on and few wifi and standard usage managed to reach 36 hours on same charge.
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awesome work!

Good work.

I respect your work.

Hasn't there been devs around here that specifically said kernels don't actually affect battery drain? I'm not too familiar with all the technical stuff, so if anyone can explain exactly what the kernel is, that might help explain things even further. I do know, and everyone else (hopefully), more aggressive scaling can have an effect on battery life . Nice to see another test showing undervolting is pretty much not needed and isn't worth the instability it may cause. But hey, whatever floats your boat.

I find it rather strange that you claimed to use Google factory images on the 9023, but your battery screen shots show on screen buttons.

albundy2010 said:
I find it rather strange that you claimed to use Google factory images on the 9023, but your battery screen shots show on screen buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
"... I didn't inhale ..."

what CPU speed(high/low) are you benchmarking, I don't see it posted.

I'll just come out and say it: seems fishy.
I've seen you obsessed before at some kernel "myths" like thalamus claim that latest mainline updates were hurting performance/battery and to be honest I don't see in these studies a sufficient amount of rigor, objectivity and data to withdraw any conclusions except your clear agenda against some things that are said.
For example, some flaws:
1. 0xBenchmark and AnTuTu only measure one kind of performance, you may think you are gauging something when you're not.
2. A more recent toolchain supposedly provides improvements in other areas which weren't taken into account.
3. Such benchmarks have fluctuations, they are not particularly accurate.
4. The LCD undervolt test lacks data results (we are to believe your word?) and the methods chosen aren't good - too many parasite variables.
5. Again, vague information (you don't specify which debugging was removed). Not to mention some debug are proven to hurt performance like Frame Pointer. If you're going against theory, one more reason to be concise.
6. And once more, removing debug/crap should improve other things which were completely ignored (mm, pm, etc).
7. The last test just doesn't make sense, there are too many things involved to be that linear.
8. Why do the screenshots have battery % and the galaxy nexus keys if you were on OTA JRO0E?
Long story short, I can't really bring myself to take this too seriously as it lacks data and there's just too much hate undermining the credibility of the post. I should also mention that I don't have a position regarding each of those claims; I believe we should experiment, analyse, collect feedback and withdraw conclusions for everything but this just didn't convince me, especially when it comes to your neutrality. Thanks though.

chronophase1 said:
Hasn't there been devs around here that specifically said kernels don't actually affect battery drain?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess I know whom you are talking about, but may be you have not read his latest thread. lol...
When this dev released his .39 kernel, I asked how does it impact the battery. He shouted back at me in a rude voice saying Kernels doesn't impact battery and it is only the ROM. Fare enough.
But today he claims around that merging in to mainline from .31 to .39, .40 etc drains more battery and he is going back to .31 and says he has data etc.
I am glad this test has proved it actually doesn't matter.

anshumandash said:
When this dev released his .39 kernel, I asked how does it impact the battery. He shouted back at me in a rude voice saying Kernels doesn't impact battery and it is only the ROM. Fare enough.
But today he claims around that merging in to mainline from .31 to .39, .40 etc drains more battery and he is going back to .31 and says he has data etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said generally, which is correct. The vast majority of the time the kernel has nothing to do with battery drain.
And yes, merging mainline does make a difference.
If you actually bother to read my blog post, you will see I don't actually mention battery drain at all as my reasons for ditching mainline updates.
Personally, I don't use the Nexus S enough to notice increases / decreases in drain, it's my development phone. However, quite a lot of users *have* told me that they have noticed improvements since I rolled back. Perhaps they are all wrong too?
It's not wakelocks, it's not obvious drain, it's subtle increases in drain which are impossible to track down.
However, In the case of the GNex when I merged to .40 I got 6% an hour drain, but when I went back to .31, I got less than 1% an hour drain. Merging back up again gives me the 6% an hour drain again with *nothing* else changed. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that it must be the kernel merging which has caused it, or is someone going to argue with that too? Lol.
I'm not entirely sure what myths have been busted here. It seems like a non kernel developer wasted their time to prove utterly nothing, which amuses me slightly. Do you honesty think I apply any modification, tweak or anything without testing the impact? If it makes no difference, it doesn't go in.
Removing unused stuff is simply to make the compile slightly quicker and the resulting zImage smaller. I don't believe there are any performance improvements to gain by doing that, but what is the point having junk built in which isn't needed?
As for removing all debugging, it's not a good idea, because how are you going to get a stacktrace if you panic? Again, that is something I won't do, and I know it makes little difference.
Anyway, if you want to test more accurate real world usage, use the 2D tests on 0xBench. They are CPU bound and they are greatly affected by small changes. Here are some I did a few weeks ago to test the best toolchain for the Nexus 7.
As you can see, there clearly is a difference between the speed of code that they produce. Raw speed is one thing, but graphics benchmarks more accurately represent real usage.
tl;dr: Ignore the agenda driven opinions and dubious results in the first post, they are meaningless.

simms22 said:
what CPU speed(high/low) are you benchmarking, I don't see it posted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Performance, 1000.
albundy2010 said:
I find it rather strange that you claimed to use Google factory images on the 9023, but your battery screen shots show on screen buttons.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
knzo said:
8. Why do the screenshots have battery % and the galaxy nexus keys if you were on OTA JRO0E?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read carefully i tested the battery with daily use aswell.
Quoting myself : " Also with standard usage, with data always on and few wifi and standard usage managed to reach 36 hours on same charge..
knzo said:
A more recent toolchain supposedly provides improvements in other areas which weren't taken into account.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you read carefully the test is inspired by the Ezekeel one, that's why i used the same tools/approach. I do thrust his work more.
After tons of test around the web can pretty much assure you that toolchains may give something good compiling the OS ITSELF not the kernel.
knzo said:
The LCD undervolt test lacks data results (we are to believe your word?) and the methods chosen aren't good - too many parasite variables.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is a rude attitude. Why don't you explain why the methods are wrong?
If after days of testing with almost just the lcd on, seeing wich charge lasted longer isn't good feel free to explain why.
Maybe i should've used a tester? I simply want to see if my phone last longer with lcd undervolt, simply.
About data results: the results is around 5%, would it better if i wrote how much every % lasted and then making simple math operations? No thanks.
i don't like to edit OP posts so i'll write it here. Quoting myself:
What i came up with is something like 5%, that means something like 10 more screen time with standard use, even less, and considering this small margin, can also be unrelated at all to the undervolt.
i meant 10 minutes more screen time
knzo said:
5. Again, vague information (you don't specify which debugging was removed). Not to mention some debug are proven to hurt performance like Frame Pointer. If you're going against theory, one more reason to be concise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disabled them one by one aswell and never noticed an increase performance. So your statement is wrong. I don't have the config anymore but for sure kernel, slub dm and cgroup subsys were disabled.
I develop my own rom and kernel just for myself. I make these tests for myself not to prove anything, i'm just sharing.
These tests took me one week to be made. Do you really think i would ruin them posting wrong informations or ruining my reputation?
Actually i was surprised by some of them.
You're welcomed to made them again or better since you didn't like the methods.

atl4ntis said:
If you read carefully the test is inspired by the Ezekeel one, that's why i used the same tools/approach. I do thrust his work more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That single sentence sums up this entire thread.
Basically, you started these tests with an agenda which was to validate ezekeels tests and you 'proved' what you wanted to prove to fit your agenda.
Anyone can do that. It doesn't actually prove anything though, it just generates FUD. Congrats.

No just one test and just becouse similar test were made.
Go troll somewhere else.

atl4ntis said:
No just one test and just becouse similar test were made.
Go troll somewhere else.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not trolling. I'm rightly questioning your extremely dubious results and the fact you have an agenda, which you clearly do. If you don't want people to question them, perhaps go and post them on Rootzwiki instead where they will be blindly accepted as gospel.
The definition of trolling is here.
Your post is simply confusing users and generating FUD, but perhaps *that* is your true agenda, is it not?

If you think these tests are wrong just provide some proof instead of offending people or talking about agenda or even worse reporting them as wrong because "other people said so" instead of testing them by yourself or saying some issues are not trackable.lol.
Some moderator should get rid of this thanks.

I think the OP has good intentions and had shown aptitude in collecting data, which deserves praise.
Just because something isn't perfect in the first attempt doesn't mean it deserves to be torn down.
Efforts like this need to be carefully nurtured because they go towards dispelling the prevalent aura of general guff that is spouted here in the development section on a daily basis.
To improve the study, make sure you are clear about the test conditions, and run the same test repeatedly until the mean and median converge to within some acceptable tolerance, e.g. 1%
You can then use standard deviation to make accurate statements about the data including its variability.
If you run multiple benchmarks you can later do regression testing to eliminate the tests that aren't correlated to the end result. You can combine the results of multiple benchmarks using the geometric mean.
If that's confusing, then I'll happily explain it in more detail.

Any more shenanigans, this thread gets locked. Either discuss the post like an adult or don't post.

You quoted my post about battery screens + on screen buttons but have not answered what is the deal with it.
What are those on screen buttons doing there on a official ROM for the 9023?

Already answered but maybe i wasn't clear enough.
I tested those kernel with daily usage aswell, that mean with mods apps and every crap i use daily. Those ss refers to the daily usage with my rom.

Why do people not want encryption?

I was under the impression that encryption was supposed to be a good thing. Can someone explain why everyone wants it disabled?

It apparently slows the device down significantly since they did the encryption with software instead of hardware. Doing the mod simply makes it optional like it was before. Most people won't have that kind of sensitive info on their phones to really worry about it.

i dont notice any slow down thus far and i applaud the encryption.

Most people would choose faster performance over encryption. Almost ANYONE would choose to have encryption if it didn't affect performance...there's no arguing that encryption is a bad thing...it's just that performance is king for most people who don't consider their phone data to be extremely sensitive.
I think Google should have done one of two things: 1) make it optional so everyone could choose encryption or performance 2) make it so the encryption has little to no effect on performance.
Since it does strongly affect performance, the fact that it's FORCED on us is definitely a point of contention.

> i dont notice any slow down thus far and i applaud the encryption.
if you didn't then good for you. don't bother comparing your Nexus 6 with how a hated touchwizd Note4 behaves. Heck don't compare it even with the year old Nexus 5.

People don't notice any slowdowns, its only a problem for those benchmark geeks.
Yet, in all full hardware benchmarks, even a fully encrypted Nexus 6 outperforms every other phone.
Antutu is still 50k+ for example. Lol

chrisjcks said:
People don't notice any slowdowns, its only a problem for those benchmark geeks.
Yet, in all full hardware benchmarks, even a fully encrypted Nexus 6 outperforms every other phone.
Antutu is still 50k+ for example. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People have said the phone is significantly snappier after disabling it. Some may say it's placebo, but the read/write speeds are increased quite a lot, so it is believable. I personally didn't even use the phone with encryption and compared to the video reviews I've seen, mine seems to perform a whole lot better. In some vids there were noticeable delays when opening apps.

It is faster at saving files and opening my photos app without encryption. I have 3000+ pictures on my phone from that I took on my G3 and its much faster and there is almost 0 scroll lag now.

P1 Wookie said:
It apparently slows the device down significantly since they did the encryption with software instead of hardware. Doing the mod simply makes it optional like it was before. Most people won't have that kind of sensitive info on their phones to really worry about it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have any developers actually dug in to the kernel to validate that it's using software encryption only? It could be that the Snapdragon 805's crypto module is just slow. Surely there has to be a way to enable hardware encryption if it's not available.

phekno said:
Have any developers actually dug in to the kernel to validate that it's using software encryption only? It could be that the Snapdragon 805's crypto module is just slow. Surely there has to be a way to enable hardware encryption if it's not available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have time to go look because I'm about to go into work, but I believe the person that made the modded boot image was the one that figured it out.

I feel I don't need it. I have used a smartphone for years now and they could have been encrypted at any time but I chose to rely on my lock screen and the ability to remotely wipe my device. I don't want to give up the performance for something I don't feel I need. If there was dedicated hardware, which it looks like there isn't, I'd leave it encrypted. Apple, for example, uses dedicated hardware so that the encryption doesn't impact performance which means they can use encryption and still get speeds equivelant to or faster than most phones out there now.
---------- Post added at 09:03 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------
chrisjcks said:
People don't notice any slowdowns, its only a problem for those benchmark geeks.
Yet, in all full hardware benchmarks, even a fully encrypted Nexus 6 outperforms every other phone.
Antutu is still 50k+ for example. Lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But there are videos showing the Nexus 6 performing operations slower than a Nexus 5 or did you mean it outperforms every other encrypted phone?.

The slow down is not noticeable by any significant margin. It's purely in benchmarks and possibly when installing some larger apps, you might notice it taking a bit longer than it should. After disabling encryption, it's most likely placebo that it feels faster, but the phone did not feel "slow" by any means with encryption enabled.
I just don't care enough to have my data encrypted, I don't keep anything of vital importance on my phone, so I just decided to get rid of it anyway.

Berzerker7 said:
The slow down is not noticeable by any significant margin. It's purely in benchmarks and possibly when installing some larger apps, you might notice it taking a bit longer than it should. After disabling encryption, it's most likely placebo that it feels faster, but the phone did not feel "slow" by any means with encryption enabled.
I just don't care enough to have my data encrypted, I don't keep anything of vital importance on my phone, so I just decided to get rid of it anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not sure it is just benchmarks. Not based on the video at http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...premium-price-still-comes-with-compromises/2/ anyway. App launch, boot everything seems to be slower on the encrypted device (vs an un-encrypted N5).
Maybe it was pre-release software, so dunno if the issue is still as bad

jj14 said:
I'm not sure it is just benchmarks. Not based on the video at http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014...premium-price-still-comes-with-compromises/2/ anyway. App launch, boot everything seems to be slower on the encrypted device (vs an un-encrypted N5).
Maybe it was pre-release software, so dunno if the issue is still as bad
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
At least personally, I haven't noticed any real difference and the phone felt plenty quick while I was encrypted. I just wanted the piece-of-mind and wiped early so that I wouldn't be bothered later when the phone was more used and it would have been more of a hassle to wipe.

Another issue to keep in mind is the hit to battery life. If encryption is taking place in software, that's going to tax the CPU much more than if it was being done via dedicated hardware. Removing encryption will reduce CPU load, thus increasing battery life. So even if the device "feels" the same with and without encryption, you still benefit from disabling encryption.
Anecdotally, yesterday I experienced better battery life than what the reviewers were getting (about 5-6 hours of SOT). We already know that the I/O speeds are objectively faster with encryption disabled, so I'd love to see some objective tests done on battery life.

I may opt out then. I'm not a criminal or part of a sleeper cell of any kind.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using XDA Free mobile app

i don't even have a lock screen.
do i need encryption?

bradputt said:
i don't even have a lock screen.
do i need encryption?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Encryption is just another barricade protecting your data beyond a lock screen. As far as I know it basically means that even if someone manages to pull data off your phone, they won't be able to view it. Could be wrong though.

Xileforce said:
Encryption is just another barricade protecting your data beyond a lock screen. As far as I know it basically means that even if someone manages to pull data off your phone, they won't be able to view it. Could be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In simple terms without being all technical, it is pretty much the process where you (Point A) is communicating with a user or server (Point B). A unknown identity (government, adversary) is possible to take the data you sent to Point B but then they will have a difficult time to "decrypting" the jibberish to translate it into something that is useful.
E.G. I send the following string "Hello"
The unknown identity would receive the encrypted text as "A45K1K1JKNN" (just a example)
Read more about cryptography if you're interested.

zephiK said:
In simple terms without being all technical, it is pretty much the process where you (Point A) is communicating with a user or server (Point B). A unknown identity (government, adversary) is possible to take the data you sent to Point B but then they will have a difficult time to "decrypting" the jibberish to translate it into something that is useful.
E.G. I send the following string "Hello"
The unknown identity would receive the encrypted text as "A45K1K1JKNN" (just a example)
Read more about cryptography if you're interested.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for clarifying it further, that's pretty much what I thought the general idea was.

Encrypted or Decrypted?

What do you guys say, should i encrypt my phone?

ProRules said:
What do you guys say, should i encrypt my phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most users doesn't know about encryption.
The users that know about it choose decrypt for more performance.
Others wants security and choose encrypt.
It is a personal question that needs a personal answer.
My N6 is unencrypted, because I make frequently backups of the data partition. Unencrypted backup is at least twice faster.

I'll go with encrypted. If your phone is ever stolen, you'll be glad that your data is safe. For me, the possible few minutes of extra battery and imperceptible performance lags in normal use are less important to me than keeping my stuff private.
As NLBeev says, it's personal preference.

dahawthorne said:
I'll go with encrypted. If your phone is ever stolen, you'll be glad that your data is safe. For me, the possible few minutes of extra battery and imperceptible performance lags in normal use are less important to me than keeping my stuff private.
As NLBeev says, it's personal preference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1

those that decrypt for performance dont realize that decrypting does nothing to increase performance. they only get a slightly faster read/write.

simms22 said:
those that decrypt for performance ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it is comparable with the placebo effect.

Just read an news article that in the US telecom providers will deliver new phones with anti-theft software.
The user/owner is free to activate this or not.
Google has a different point of view. The policy is to force encryption.
Q. Why does these companies care for my phone?
A. The price of the phones will raise.

Encrypt.

NLBeev said:
Maybe it is comparable with the placebo effect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not a placebo affect and its not really that beneficial to write speeds, however reads speeds go 2-3X faster... Now on small files on your phone increasing read speeds by over double the speed is probably not very beneficial because the file isnt large enough to make a substantial difference but reading/writing 4k video files etc would show increased speed over encrypted. If I am not mistaken the snapdragon 805 in the nexus 6 does not use the hardware encryption module so the CPU is taxed with the encrypting and decrypting of files harder than that of a newer cpu which had the module implemented. Just a thought.
Either way im sure it doesnt make outstanding differences in day to day for normal files but either way its a choice and it is what it is. Its been covered here multiple times if you ran a search.

misfitpierce said:
.....Its been covered here multiple times if you ran a search.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better is experience. I've tried encrypt and decrypt for months.
The difference I notice is during backup. It is twice faster.
The daily use is the same encrypt or not. But that's personal. No benchmark stuff etc....

As I said in my first post "possible few minutes of extra battery and imperceptible performance lags in normal use", and all the comments pretty much echo that. Calibration machines may be able to see a difference in read-write speeds, and I certainly don't dispute that, but in day-to-day usage there is little to no effect caused by encryption - except in my head with the sense of security I have with an encrypted device...

Definitely no encryption. Tested on many roms and encryption is so much slower. That has nothing to do with placebo. Starts with up to 5 secs longer boot time and ends with opening apps. I have nothing on my phone that's worth encryption and my passwords are safe. So why should I. Couldn't blame Google more for forcing it. That should be a user decision and not Googles.

We're back full circle to the original question and answer. Personally I can spare the 5 seconds to reboot, apps open quickly enough for me, and I always have plenty of battery left at the end of the day.
We have given a range of opinions, but the answer was given in the very first reply by NLBeev: "It is a personal question that needs a personal answer."
I think we're done here...

mikaole said:
Definitely no encryption. <About forced encryption>. That should be a user decision and not Googles.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I gave up a long time ago. G. won't change - we are 'Calimero'. ?

dahawthorne said:
As I said in my first post "possible few minutes of extra battery and imperceptible performance lags in normal use", and all the comments pretty much echo that. Calibration machines may be able to see a difference in read-write speeds, and I certainly don't dispute that, but in day-to-day usage there is little to no effect caused by encryption - except in my head with the sense of security I have with an encrypted device...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not encrypted. security is an illusion. to stay safe I just make sure to be random dude. Anyway, there is a significant difference in boot/shutdown times and non significant but noticeable difference in start/shut down apps. Also, opening links from twitter with chrome web view is significantly faster when you're not encrypted.
Note! these are just my observations on day to day useage with same hardware/software, exept en/decypted.

"security is an illusion. to stay safe I just make sure to be random dude"
I have absolutely no clue what that means...

Which Hardware Revision do you have?

Hi,
After reading in another thread that there are different Hardware Revs i took another look at my Box and found out that's true.
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So how many different version are there? Someone said he had Rev 3.
How is the distribution? Timebased? and How many of each...
And most important, what's the difference.... anyone knows anything?
So, as you can see in the Picture above, i got the H8216 in Rev 2.
What do you have?

I don't know about differences but I have revision 3.

H8266 revision 3 here.
I'm not sure if I am not noticing it, but I do not experience touch screen sensitivity issues when I play games or maybe they are minimal. Granted I play rhythm games and mobile rpgs, not fps or fighting games so maybe its just me.

H8296 Rev 2

H8266 Rev 3

This thread is pointless if revisions are not linked with specific comparisons in behaviour.

Revision 1, and I'm having massive heat issues. Recording videos, especially with SteadyShot, HDR and 4K activated is stopped after 7 to 10 minutes usually, because the phone got too hot. I'd like to know if later revisions fix these issues.

Does Revision 3 fix the hardware issues?

I have Deep Green H8266 (Rev 3).
I don't experience too much heating issue and don't experience touch sensitivity issue either. Battery life is great and can be really amazing, a lot of time (reaching the point where I'm struggling to drain the phone's battery at night, just because I want to charge the phone at 15%). It is also lightning fast, superb gaming performance, and has great multitasking performance, too.

H8266 Rev 4 here, just bought it a couple of weeks ago after frying my Z5p, I had no intention on getting this phone, was going to wait til the end of the year to see what Sony will offer but necessity obliged ?
Absolutely zero issues, no heat or screen sensitivity as other mentioned, this thing stays cool and is lighting fast, battery life is insane, crossed a few times 10+ hours of SOT...just waiting tight for a drm fix to root and xposed (whenever that is)
The only thing that bugs me is the esthetic of the phone, not a fan of the back side at all (finger print sensor works pretty damn well though, still prefer a side placing)

-DM- said:
H8266 Rev 4 here, just bought it a couple of weeks ago after frying my Z5p, I had no intention on getting this phone, was going to wait til the end of the year to see what Sony will offer but necessity obliged
Absolutely zero issues, no heat or screen sensitivity as other mentioned, this thing stays cool and is lighting fast, battery life is insane, crossed a few times 10+ hours of SOT...just waiting tight for a drm fix to root and xposed (whenever that is)
The only thing that bugs me is the esthetic of the phone, not a fan of the back side at all (finger print sensor works pretty damn well though, still prefer a side placing)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting. I'm not getting anywhere close to those battery times either. Can you run the GeekBench battery test? I'm at 4 hours and something...

I will ask the support to repair my phone.
Switch it to the latest hardware revision.
And see if this fix my touch screen issue.

-DM- said:
H8266 Rev 4 here, just bought it a couple of weeks ago after frying my Z5p, I had no intention on getting this phone, was going to wait til the end of the year to see what Sony will offer but necessity obliged
Absolutely zero issues, no heat or screen sensitivity as other mentioned, this thing stays cool and is lighting fast, battery life is insane, crossed a few times 10+ hours of SOT...just waiting tight for a drm fix to root and xposed (whenever that is)
The only thing that bugs me is the esthetic of the phone, not a fan of the back side at all (finger print sensor works pretty damn well though, still prefer a side placing)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Impossible physically. The battery is not big enough to sustain that long of a SOT no matter how efficient you claim to be. unless sony changed the battery capacity in their latest revision, conning people who got earlier revisions.

I haven't had any of the issues reported, the phone never seems to get hot either but I don't play games very much and for the time that I just got slightly warm. I agree with the battery life, it's really amazing compared to everything else I've ever owned.

hotcakes_shinku said:
Impossible physically. The battery is not big enough to sustain that long of a SOT no matter how efficient you claim to be. unless sony changed the battery capacity in their latest revision, conning people who got earlier revisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been on xda long enough and I'm not the type to post nonsense ?
This pic below is not from my phone, it's from the xz2 thread on Esato, so you can see that I'm not the only one either...I didn't take a screen shot of mine when I crossed 10+ hours (I will next time)... I said that passed it a few times, mostly range in the ≈9+ hours...
I don't game, few accounts with push notifications and an email client with 3 imap notifications (so those run in the background constantly)
This one below is from my phone...I'm at 1.5 hours of SOT with a 12% down from full charge...you can extrapolate the end results ?
System optimization is an important factor, not only battery size...they did a great job with the xz2...

-DM- said:
System optimization is an important factor, not only battery size...they did a great job with the xz2...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed, I've also about 9h SOT
8266 Rev 2

adwinp said:
This thread is pointless if revisions are not linked with specific comparisons in behaviour.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
and WHAT exactly do you want to test? We don't know what they changed, might the supplier from glue which holds the Screen on the phone, might be the a different speaker/microphone inside or something else smaller.
Else we wouldn't be a rev4 already. Changing something during production is no small feat...
hotcakes_shinku said:
Impossible physically. The battery is not big enough to sustain that long of a SOT no matter how efficient you claim to be. unless sony changed the battery capacity in their latest revision, conning people who got earlier revisions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol.
The Battery inside the XZ2 has:
Min: 3060mAh 11.6Wh
Typ: 3180mAh 12.3Wh
So i've measured the powerdraw for Screen+Phone Idle/flightmode:
Minimum Brightness uses 0.49W
Maximum uses 1.83W
Screen Off uses 0.24W
Doing the Math even at full brightness if you use your phone as E-Book reader you could reach 6h 45min At Minimum even over 25h!
So yes, it is very well possible.

chili_red said:
I haven't had any of the issues reported, the phone never seems to get hot either but I don't play games very much and for the time that I just got slightly warm. I agree with the battery life, it's really amazing compared to everything else I've ever owned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hm. Before the XZ2 I've had a Xiaomi Mi 6, which impressed me more in terms of battery. Smaller screen, bigger battery (and much slimmer phone).
And IMHO it's not better, perhaps worse than my LG V20. I did take a lot of photos, which does seem to drain the battery badly.
I really wonder what they have done through the revisions. It seems clear to me now that revision 1 had some serious flaws (or maybe my unit is defective), especially in terms of cooling.

Rev 2 i have
Wat is exactly the point of this... More info please and can you explain us what Rev 1, 2 and so on is and what it mean ?

Pandemic said:
Rev 2 i have
Wat is exactly the point of this... More info please and can you explain us what Rev 1, 2 and so on is and what it mean ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one except for Sony probably knows. But it is interesting to see, which revisions made it to the market and which didn't. And if people report on issues with their phone, we can at least figure out a bit what was fixed. Also now we know there are 4 revisions so far. Mine is revision 1 and says demo only, not for sale. So maybe it is also possible to find out when these phones were released.

General The US & Canada has a new OnePlus 10 Pro that might make you regret buying the older one

Fyi
The US has a new OnePlus 10 Pro that might make you regret buying the older one
If you already bought a OnePlus 10 Pro in the US, we have some bad (or maybe good?) news: there is a better version coming.
www.androidauthority.com

It just 12GB/256GB is coming. Nothing different. In China has other top configuration is 16GB/512GB

galaxys said:
Fyi
The US has a new OnePlus 10 Pro that might make you regret buying the older one
If you already bought a OnePlus 10 Pro in the US, we have some bad (or maybe good?) news: there is a better version coming.
www.androidauthority.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I had bought direct from OnePlus,yeah,I'd have a bit of buyer's remorse.
But,I got mine from T-Mobile w/a killer trade-in allowance.
The full MSRP of $899 the phone was covered w/my OnePlus8 that I bought direct from One Plus for $249, specifically to use for the trade-in,so no regrets here.

This company just can't help but piss off its customers, can it?

Besides storage I don't see a benefit from 8 to 12GB of RAM.
Tbh 12 consumes more battery
256 should be standard tbh, 512 for the higher price point

dladz said:
Besides storage I don't see a benefit from 8 to 12GB of RAM.
Tbh 12 consumes more battery
256 should be standard tbh, 512 for the higher price point
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The power consumption difference is not that great and more multitasking capability should always be welcomed. At a $70 premium, if given the choice when I'm in the market for a new device, 12/256 would be a no-brainer over 8/128. Obviously I wouldn't object to 12/512 either but I don't think that can happen for $70 and I wouldn't pay more than that.

EtherealRemnant said:
The power consumption difference is not that great and more multitasking capability should always be welcomed. At a $70 premium, if given the choice when I'm in the market for a new device, 12/256 would be a no-brainer over 8/128. Obviously I wouldn't object to 12/512 either but I don't think that can happen for $70 and I wouldn't pay more than that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. That extra 4gb of ram uses virtually no more battery and perks up the phone.
Under heavy app loading it's really great to have.

EtherealRemnant said:
The power consumption difference is not that great and more multitasking capability should always be welcomed. At a $70 premium, if given the choice when I'm in the market for a new device, 12/256 would be a no-brainer over 8/128. Obviously I wouldn't object to 12/512 either but I don't think that can happen for $70 and I wouldn't pay more than that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmmm it does use more battery buddy, plus do you see a benefit from it? I've never maxed out 8GB on any phone lol.
Each to their own, but don't tell me there isn't an overhead for more RAM because there is.
I wish there wasn't but there is.
Either way, was just making a comment. I have my phone so I honestly couldn't care less, haven't you got a 9 pro anyway? You're on the 10 forums more than the 9

blackhawk said:
Exactly. That extra 4gb of ram uses virtually no more battery and perks up the phone.
Under heavy app loading it's really great to have.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What does it help? Just honestly one situation it benefits.
I've got my zRAM off, I use a lot of RAM because of it...I had the 12GB 8 pro before this and the difference in ability to multi task is negligible. I honestly don't think any apps utilise it.
If it was a game changer i would never have gone for 8.
We should do some tests, see how the 12 matches up to the 8. I think the difference will be minor at best.
Battery wise I'm still waiting to get knocked off my perch with 11+ hours SOT with nornal ish usage

dladz said:
Hmmmm it does use more battery buddy, plus do you see a benefit from it? I've never maxed out 8GB on any phone lol.
Each to their own, but don't tell me there isn't an overhead for more RAM because there is.
I wish there wasn't but there is.
Either way, was just making a comment. I have my phone so I honestly couldn't care less, haven't you got a 9 pro anyway? You're on the 10 forums more than the 9
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
People who play lots of mobile games notice a difference. I have stuff get closed on me all the time when I am switching between apps even without lots of gaming. 12GB would have been my ideal but I didn't want to spend the money.
Power consumption doesn't necessarily increase all that much if the chip is binned better, which usually is what happens with higher capacity modules.
I have a 9 but I read the 9 Pro and 10 Pro forums too.

dladz said:
What does it help? Just honestly one situation it benefits.
I've got my zRAM off, I use a lot of RAM because of it...I had the 12GB 8 pro before this and the difference in ability to multi task is negligible. I honestly don't think any apps utilise it.
If it was a game changer i would never have gone for 8.
We should do some tests, see how the 12 matches up to the 8. I think the difference will be minor at best.
Battery wise I'm still waiting to get knocked off my perch with 11+ hours SOT with nornal ish usage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Watch to ancient N10+ completely grease the S22U in the last minutes of this vid.
Appalling the S22U even with a light load wasn't that much faster loading apps.
The S22U used had 8gb of ram vs the N10+'s 12gb. That likely played a large part in this. I wish they had used the 12gb variant as well in this test. Also unknown is the N10+'s OS version, presumably 11; how would one loaded with Android 9 and 10 done?
These are the things mainstream reviewers ignore as they whistle past the graveyard on their way to the bank.
In the Samsung lineage you don't see a huge performance drop until you go to the N9.
Extra ram is as it has always given an added measure of working capacity and future proofing.
Even the N10+'s older ram consumes little extra power, new ram is at least 20% more efficient.
Is it needed? No. Is it nice to have? Yes.
Invariably I will always go with a larger ram in any phone especially nowadays. I remember the dog days of 4gb of phone ram... it wasn't pretty.
N10+ running on Pie, normal ram loading:
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EtherealRemnant said:
People who play lots of mobile games notice a difference. I have stuff get closed on me all the time when I am switching between apps even without lots of gaming. 12GB would have been my ideal but I didn't want to spend the money.
Power consumption doesn't necessarily increase all that much if the chip is binned better, which usually is what happens with higher capacity modules.
I have a 9 but I read the 9 Pro and 10 Pro forums too.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not talking about binning mate, I do play games so I know when there's a drop, I'm not seeing one. And i push to the limits.
Not talking about the the CPU either but powering and using but not filling an extra 4GB of RAM 100% will use more power. It's just fact buddy, I'd like to live in LA LA land but I don't.
Either way, if you can use the 12 and that's your thing then brilliant but I've never seen a user case for it.
Storage yep I'm in board with that.. But the RAM for me is a negligible upgrade for numbers and get little gains be stamina drops.
Anyway, each to their own, not bashing just don't see it as a loss to have 8 instead of 12.

blackhawk said:
Watch to ancient N10+ completely grease the S22U in the last minutes of this vid.
Appalling the S22U even with a light load wasn't that much faster loading apps.
The S22U used had 8gb of ram vs the N10+'s 12gb. That likely played a large part in this. I wish they had used the 12gb variant as well in this test. Also unknown is the N10+'s OS version, presumably 11; how would one loaded with Android 9 and 10 done?
These are the things mainstream reviewers ignore as they whistle past the graveyard on their way to the bank.
In the Samsung lineage you don't see a huge performance drop until you go to the N9.
Extra ram is as it has always given an added measure of working capacity and future proofing.
Even the N10+'s older ram consumes little extra power, new ram is at least 20% more efficient.
Is it needed? No. Is it nice to have? Yes.
Invariably I will always go with a larger ram in any phone especially nowadays. I remember the dog days of 4gb of phone ram... it wasn't pretty.
N10+ running on Pie, normal ram loading:
View attachment 5634829
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I understand Sammy's playing by the "rules" but let's see a 12GB OnePlus10 pro out pace an 8GB
I doubt it'll happen buddy.
More then happy to run any bench Vs any 12

dladz said:
I understand Sammy's playing by the "rules" but let's see a 12GB OnePlus10 pro out pace an 8GB
I doubt it'll happen buddy.
More then happy to run any bench Vs any 12
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesn't really matter as this is our lot.
I stopped doing benchmarks long ago, the heatpipe is well seated
What I really like to see is the same model benchmarked and compared for practical usage/speed running Android 9 through 12.

dladz said:
Not talking about binning mate, I do play games so I know when there's a drop, I'm not seeing one. And i push to the limits.
Not talking about the the CPU either but powering and using but not filling an extra 4GB of RAM 100% will use more power. It's just fact buddy, I'd like to live in LA LA land but I don't.
Either way, if you can use the 12 and that's your thing then brilliant but I've never seen a user case for it.
Storage yep I'm in board with that.. But the RAM for me is a negligible upgrade for numbers and get little gains be stamina drops.
Anyway, each to their own, not bashing just don't see it as a loss to have 8 instead of 12.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
More RAM does not automatically equal more power consumption. Higher quality silicon requires less power for the same demand and it's actually not at all uncommon for the required voltage to go down with higher density memory because it needs higher quality silicon to maintain the same ability to process tasks without errors at the same frequency and it can also be more sensitive to higher voltages that lower quality silicon handles fine. It's not really something to worry about anyway as LPDDR5 isn't anywhere near as power hungry as the main components in the phone - the CPU and GPU cores as well as the modem. It's unlikely to make any power drain difference that would be noticeable to the end user but the performance gains realized by the phone being able to dynamically cache the apps a person uses (the RAM Boost setting in your phone uses predictive pre-loading like this) most definitely is.

EtherealRemnant said:
More RAM does not automatically equal more power consumption. Higher quality silicon requires less power for the same demand and it's actually not at all uncommon for the required voltage to go down with higher density memory because it needs higher quality silicon to maintain the same ability to process tasks without errors at the same frequency and it can also be more sensitive to higher voltages that lower quality silicon handles fine. It's not really something to worry about anyway as LPDDR5 isn't anywhere near as power hungry as the main components in the phone - the CPU and GPU cores as well as the modem. It's unlikely to make any power drain difference that would be noticeable to the end user but the performance gains realized by the phone being able to dynamically cache the apps a person uses (the RAM Boost setting in your phone uses predictive pre-loading like this) most definitely is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not a case of higher density its a case of more modules? They all require juice to run..
?
Dude Google if you don't believe me.
As I've said even without power consumption, you don't benefit from more RAM anyway. Not from 8-12 maybe from 4-6 of 6-8 but not over 8

dladz said:
It's not a case of higher density its a case of more modules? They all require juice to run..
?
Dude Google if you don't believe me.
As I've said even without power consumption, you don't benefit from more RAM anyway. Not from 8-12 maybe from 4-6 of 6-8 but not over 8
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even if you are correct and it is a second module required (I am too lazy to go actually look up what LPDDR5 modules exist to prove which of us is correct), you're talking about a negligible power difference anyway. Like I said, LPDDR5 is designed to be low power (literally what the LP means), so it's not using much to begin with. What does it matter if you lose a few seconds of battery? It doesn't.
You're also saying you don't benefit without knowing one way or the other. You're painting with way too broad a brush here. I can make a virtual machine that needs 8GB of RAM right now and make use of 12GB today, that's not even taking into account the advancement of predictive algorithms using the memory to boost the speed of app launches or future changes to Android (Android's memory requirements increase practically with each new major release).

EtherealRemnant said:
Even if you are correct and it is a second module required (I am too lazy to go actually look up what LPDDR5 modules exist to prove which of us is correct), you're talking about a negligible power difference anyway. Like I said, LPDDR5 is designed to be low power (literally what the LP means), so it's not using much to begin with. What does it matter if you lose a few seconds of battery? It doesn't.
You're also saying you don't benefit without knowing one way or the other. You're painting with way too broad a brush here. I can make a virtual machine that needs 8GB of RAM right now and make use of 12GB today, that's not even taking into account the advancement of predictive algorithms using the memory to boost the speed of app launches or future changes to Android (Android's memory requirements increase practically with each new major release).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How can you say I'm being too broad then mention a virtual machine?
It's a phone buddy, show me real world, get the phone and try to beat my SOT and I'll hold my hat up to you. Until then mate it's just hearsay (Depp)
Either way, it's fine man in not bothered I don't to fall out man, you've got a 9 I'm guessing you're happy, in happy with my 10 so let's leave it there yea
It's all good. I've read 12 takes more juice, my logic fun being a techie for decades supports that theory, and I've had better battery on every 8 over every 12, do the results for me at least have some for themselves.
But again, don't want to argue man.

Screw oneplus

I'm pretty ****ing pissed.
Literally bought this phone 11 days ago (6-1) from the OnePlus website. Arrived 6-9. Today is 6-11 (not even 1am EST)
Your Order #A112205313242270114(placed on 2022-05-31 01:11:57) (estimated dispatch date 2022-06-01 UTC)
Not even 48 ****ing hours and it has been outdated/replaced/demoted.
Really ****ing pissed.
Still have my 1+9, thinking about returning the 10 out of spite and then good-riddancing them for good.