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of people who dont speak english naturally, yet have the patience to learn such a difficult language. im always impressed and flattered by foreigners who speak incredible english with great grammar and sentence structure, especially when people like me who have trouble getting the rules straight when we already should know them. what makes learning english even more incredible is that there are over 1,000,000 words in the english language (most arent used anymore but they still can be). german comes in at a very distant second place with just over 300,000 words. and most english words have at least five other words that mean the exact same thing. random english words fact: there is no single word in english for "the back of the knee". anyways, its great to hear people speak english as their second language. so, kudos (slang for "congrats") to all you non english speaking people who have the incredible patience to learn something that does not come naturally to you. i do hope to learn german one day, because i have family in germany; and maybe even learn russian too. again, thanks to all aspiring linguists around the globe.
p.s. sorry if i use words that are big/fancy. i have a bad habit of doing that.
Thank you, I feel flattered as a foreigner and I think my decent english is due to watching a lot of television. Like talk shows and movies. Actually imo english is easier to learn than dutch or french etc. because most foreigners grow up with hearing english stuff around them. This almost never the case in England nor America. It's just the universal language, so there's less need to learn extra languages.
Sent from my HTC
I´ve learned as a second language due to my mother is teacher/translator English/French.
Remember when I was a kid watching the movies in English, even if I did not understood a single word.
I consider I speak quite well (much better than my writing skills)
shoemeistah said:
Thank you, I feel flattered as a foreigner and I think my decent english is due to watching a lot of television. Like talk shows and movies. Actually imo english is easier to learn than dutch or french etc. because most foreigners grow up with hearing english stuff around them. This almost never the case in England nor America. It's just the universal language, so there's less need to learn extra languages.
Sent from my HTC
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Dude, there are absolutely no errors in your English. God I wish I was that linguistically skilled. English is that common in other countries? I never would have guessed that. By the way, I absolutely love Europeans. I think they are the most pleasant people to be around (at least I think they are). I've only been to Europe once, but my dream is to visit every country in Europe. There is just something so wonderful about Europe. Anyways, you Europeans keep being awesome!!!
For example my mother moved to the US from the Czech Republic in the 80's, she grew up around many other languages and now speaks 9 (I cant name em all if i tried). And All 3 of her children (myself included) speak English to her, English for her is a second language but we speak to each other easily and she even thinks in multiple languages now. I have a lot of respect for her
It's not just in Europe and the US where English is the 'universal' language! Don't forget us down under (eg. Australia and New Zealand). I never realised how hard English would have been to learn until I did French in Year 12, especially given that English technically my equal first language. I speak Cantonese at home, for those who are interested. It's a real shame that, in Australia, another language isn't something that it required to graduate from high school (college in British and American English?) though. It's amazing how some people can speak so many languages. I wish I had that ability... And or patience.
winmofreak said:
kudos (slang for "congrats") to all you non english speaking people who have the incredible patience to learn something that does not come naturally to you.
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Thank you. It's not so hard if you're using it for some 30+ years...
And you must remember that main language used in computers is english... so anyway I had to learn it better when I selected my profession... which originally was computer programming.
For me English in my 3. language. We have our own language in the Faroe Islands that is only spoken by some 60-70.000 people in the whole world. Our 2. language is Danish. But TV is the main reason that mostly everyone in the Faroe Islands speaks English quite good. My son is 3 years old now and has already started learning some English. All the cartoons he gets to watch are in English.
M_T_M said:
I had to learn English fast 'cause saying "Yo quiero job" only took me so far in this country
Thanks for the motivation and kind words anyway
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I'm not even going to touch that issue... BIG hot button issue... But yeah, you've got a good point, when you need to learn something in order to survive, you're going to learn it fast.
I was forced to learn Engrish, at gun point.
i think i will learn more english than phone knowledge.
my mobile is meizu m9 and i cant find much of it.
reading books and novels taught me good English
The best thing I know to do is to start asking questions and never stop.
Sadly, too many of us here in the U.S. don't care and don't take pride in being able to write properly.
I know I'm new here (in fact I'm *brand new* as of today) but if you have questions, I'm certain there's others on here like me who can help.
Remember: we learn by doing.
I learned English at a strip joint.
Assuming you're in China, get a girlfriend who can't speak Chinese.
Join more activities with people from different countries.
I'm not a proponent of the "immersive" approach to language education, tbh. I don't believe it really works all that well, and I do believe it is an extremely resource-intensive, inefficient approach.
But then again, that's just me talking.
I just got rosetta stone for arabic. The pronunciation is killing me. Can't vouch for it though, just started it.
Cable television helped a lot with my english, back when I was in school (20 years ago)
boborone said:
I just got rosetta stone for arabic. The pronunciation is killing me. Can't vouch for it though, just started it.
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need help?, I am a native
@clown, yup movies, movies and more movies without reading subtitles
husam666 said:
need help?, I am a native
@clown, yup movies, movies and more movies without reading subtitles
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I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I'm saving up for a backpacking trip to the Middle East. That is is some beautiful land and culture yall have out there. Just so much untouched land. I've backpacked around America, but never been outside the US.
EDIT There is one thing that you can help me with. Besides Al Jazerra, what other news sites would be good to watch/read to learn more. Also, do you know of a good way to learn the alphabet and writing? Thanks.
boborone said:
I'll keep that in mind, thanks. I'm saving up for a backpacking trip to the Middle East. That is is some beautiful land and culture yall have out there. Just so much untouched land. I've backpacked around America, but never been outside the US.
EDIT There is one thing that you can help me with. Besides Al Jazerra, what other news sites would be good to watch/read to learn more. Also, do you know of a good way to learn the alphabet and writing? Thanks.
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here's one http://www.alarabiya.net/
with the alphabets, sry idk.
husam666 said:
here's one http://www.alarabiya.net/
with the alphabets, sry idk.
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Thanks man
best advice is to hang out with people who speak the language you want to learn, Then ,read out load every day that language (gets your mouth used to saying the words). That was the biggest help for me
SciFiSurfer said:
I'm not a proponent of the "immersive" approach to language education, tbh. I don't believe it really works all that well, and I do believe it is an extremely resource-intensive, inefficient approach.
But then again, that's just me talking.
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Immersion is pretty well proven to be the fastest way to learn a language actually. I studied Spanish for 5 years in high school and college and learned more Japanese in the first six months I lived in Japan without studying for one minute than I learned in 5 years of Spanish classes.
Btros said:
Immersion is pretty well proven to be the fastest way to learn a language actually. I studied Spanish for 5 years in high school and college and learned more Japanese in the first six months I lived in Japan without studying for one minute than I learned in 5 years of Spanish classes.
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Here's my question on that point: Do you attribute immersion itself, or that by living in Japan you had a credible "need to know" as opposed to a merely arbitrary academic requirement and/or interest when you were still in school?
SciFiSurfer said:
Here's my question on that point: Do you attribute immersion itself, or that by living in Japan you had a credible "need to know" as opposed to a merely arbitrary academic requirement and/or interest when you were still in school?
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*the bold
What's the difference? Not sure what point you're trying to make. Please explain.
Btros said:
Immersion is pretty well proven to be the fastest way to learn a language actually. I studied Spanish for 5 years in high school and college and learned more Japanese in the first six months I lived in Japan without studying for one minute than I learned in 5 years of Spanish classes.
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Can't agree more, they taught us hebrew in my school and I can barely understand that language
sent from a parallel universe
SciFiSurfer said:
Here's my question on that point: Do you attribute immersion itself, or that by living in Japan you had a credible "need to know" as opposed to a merely arbitrary academic requirement and/or interest when you were still in school?
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boborone said:
*the bold
What's the difference? Not sure what point you're trying to make. Please explain.
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I agree, I think that is the point of immersion - that you are forced to find ways to communicate in the native language. The best advice I ever got about learning Japanese in Japan was from a fellow American - he saw me keep looking in my English to Japanese dictionary and told me to throw that thing away and get a Japanese to English one. Instead of looking up words in English and then trying to say the Japanese word I saw there, I would listen to the Japanese speaker telling me something, look up the word IN JAPANESE and then find the meaning on my own in English.
Using the words I learned in an authentic context day after day was the only way I learned to use them naturally.
boborone said:
*the bold
What's the difference? Not sure what point you're trying to make. Please explain.
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Well, just like Btros said, he took Hebrew in school and can't function at all in it. The difference is that when you take a language in school, unless you actually have a personal passion for learning another language, or that language in particular, you don't really have a need-to-know and so you don't really learn it.
Btros said:
I agree, I think that is the point of immersion - that you are forced to find ways to communicate in the native language.
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I suppose one could stumble through this sort of process, but it just seems like a very painful one. For one, how can you look up words in a language you don't know? I mean, if I were listening to a Japanese speaker, I'd have enough of a time trying to hear the individual words, let alone ever attempting to reconstruct their spelling and, from there, look up the meaning of the word.
Without at least some formal instruction, how can someone actually know what they're listening to? It's not like any of us native speakers speak. like. this. when. talking. to. other. people. in. the. real. world. and yet, without conversations being had in that manner. we native speakers speaklikethiswhentalkingtootherpeopleintherealworld and that is basically impossible, aurally, to pick apart when you don't have vocabulary.
SciFiSurfer said:
Well, just like Btros said, he took Hebrew in school and can't function at all in it. The difference is that when you take a language in school, unless you actually have a personal passion for learning another language, or that language in particular, you don't really have a need-to-know and so you don't really learn it.
I suppose one could stumble through this sort of process, but it just seems like a very painful one. For one, how can you look up words in a language you don't know? I mean, if I were listening to a Japanese speaker, I'd have enough of a time trying to hear the individual words, let alone ever attempting to reconstruct their spelling and, from there, look up the meaning of the word.
Without at least some formal instruction, how can someone actually know what they're listening to? It's not like any of us native speakers speak. like. this. when. talking. to. other. people. in. the. real. world. and yet, without conversations being had in that manner. we native speakers speaklikethiswhentalkingtootherpeopleintherealworld and that is basically impossible, aurally, to pick apart when you don't have vocabulary.
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you should work in politics or better yet, samsung pr
"ah yes, that's a nice question, hey look over there"
I believe in language almost religiously. I spent a third of my life studying it, scrutinizing it, creating it--and spent even longer using it--pushing its limitations, exploring how it works, because I want to know how to use it best. Language is how we organize, how we help each other. Or don't. And when we don't, it's often because we can't help each other, we don't have a mutually understood language, and without that, it's difficult to feel the empathy necessary to move us. If we're on this planet for any reason at all, I believe it's at least to help one another. And that puts language right at the heart of human purpose. Our languages are our culture, our laws, our education and information.
I came to a point where I felt like there was little left to explore. I had to create. And I dedicated my life to writing, to using what I'd learned, and use it best. Mark Twain is one of my favorites. He revolutionized how we write by glorifying the way that we actually talk. He loved the sound of local accents, and adored the charm of his own. His work is directly, though not fully, responsible for the shift in how the world treats education. It was only available to the upper classes, but when literature changed, so did where we thought education would benefit.
That's the power of language. That's what each and every language user can do, and does everyday. But there are problems, like I said. We often misunderstand, often intentionally. I'm writing this mostly in the hope that I can put a few thoughts in your head to play with, so I won't bother trying to change people's intentions. But the misunderstandings--what can we do about them?
I don't believe in a global language. I don't believe we should have one. I love language, not hate it, and I want to keep alive every possible means of telling a story. A global language encourages people to leave their regional languages behind. There are six thousand languages on this planet, and the five largest are spoken natively by 2 billion people. Twenty languages die every year. That means the last person to speak that language natively passes away. Many of those languages were never written down, never recorded. Our ancestors, the grandparents of your and my grandparents-plus-a-few, told each other--in languages we will never know, never see, never hear--how their day went. Think about that. New languages are born, we call them creole languages, in as little as twenty years--a single generation. Surprisingly fast, but not a rate that stops the downward trend. And yet, if we did stop it, we would halt all the progress we are making by growing global languages.
That's just one of many problems the world is facing with communication. It's not even the most pressing, just one of the most interesting. In Mark Twain's time, he invested in a machine called the automatic typesetter, which failed where the linotype succeeded, because a problem they faced was the labor it took to put out a newspaper on a daily basis. A funny little anecdote: Alexander Bell approached Mark Twain about investing in the telephone as Twain was investing in any nifty invention he thought would turn a profit. Twain apparently thought to himself, "Well, I'd have one, and my publisher would have one, and the newspaper--but where's the real market?" And turned down the opportunity to invest in the telephone.
That anecdote brings me to the thrust of my point. Yes, surprise, I have one. The telephone, it turns out, is the answer to a whole host of problems we've been banging our heads on tables about. Nobody would have reasonably guessed that in as little as five years ago. We have the tools to translate languages in almost real-time conversation. This will only improve. We communicate with thousands of people at once, almost no matter where we are or the time of day or how else we're multi-tasking. Not just with our voices, but with our text, and even our faces and our hands. Deaf people use phones. Think about that. Even people who refuse to socialize, who refuse to talk to other people, could easily find a reason to get a tablet or a smartphone.
I summarize the portal news on XDA TV each week. A lot of people wonder why I do that. They either don't think I fit or don't think it's what I should focus on. But in a world where the answer to so many problems I'm passionate about fixing is in my pocket, and the fact that whether or not those answers will come to fruition has a lot to do with what happens on this forum, I simply must be a part of it. I believe in xda-developers, in all of the reasons a person would come here, from developing to using, and I believe in the results of that process. You make our communication better, making our languages better. I'm writing this to thank you for those efforts, and for letting me tell people about them.
Jeff
i believe in the power of language- the beauty of words- the essence of a sentence, a paragraph or even the smallest simplest piece of writing- the word itself- which holds much meaning.
i am a writer and an artist and i have seen -how- over the years- those i mentioned above- have lost their meaning, changed, clashed, combined, simplified. many people just do have TIME devoted to such powerful, amazing and important concepts such as these. reading has become hurried- many just do not have the patience or the attention span. Charles Dickens and many other amazing authors- my favorite, gothic literature, wrote glorious masterpieces- having depth, detail- just so much more than novels of today- because those readers- DID not have television, computers, mobile devices, anything else attention grabbing. their time was definitely simpler and a time when language was at its height. now- unity of language comes from what we have at our hands- the internet, our devices- tablets, phones, mp3 players, etc.
to me, i see many simplifying- shortening- decreasing anything that has to do with writing or language. i feel so many just want the easier simpler path and i do fear as you wrote- we are missing out on so much. even i am guilty of this. i used to ONLY text- now i call my peoples, for i feel, they are missing out on MY MEANING- when i text. i hate shortening words- i like writing "ha.ha.ha.ha.ha" or "oh.my" instead of the "lol" or "omg."
my roots- deep in the sticks PA- there are so many eccentric red.neck.methods and particular dialects- which i fear- as i age- i lose (probably because i am getting older and my brain is turning into damaged goods of forgetfulness- and well i live in south.florida- the cornucopia of peoples).
language is an amazing beauty- that i will never conquer- for that i am grateful. i believe in what you do here on xda- many need it. cliff and spark notes are so popular- people search the internet looking for the summary to books of yore- but i believe, deep within, that xda unites many from all over. there is a tech advantage- simple words power/run/etc our devices- bring people together- and we all take moments- read the forums, the private messages, the newest thread- me, i read every single page of a rom i am interested in. i love when people go above and beyond helping new people, i love the arguments- because therein lies passion for a simple device- we all cherish, adore and LOVE!!!!
i am addicted to mobile device technology. the more i know- the more i understand- the happier i am. if it were not for xda- jeez- i probably would have lost my mind last year. my sincere thanks go to everyone here on xda- there is so much knowledge, such deep rooted interest, passion and incredible awareness from so many- xda begins my day and ends my day!!!
thank you- for your words, ideas, thoughts, and everything you do for xda. for your words- your notion- your very thread- has initiated your very concept. that- my friend, is a beautiful thing!!!!
Sadly the telephone has done more harm to the written language than anything else i could mention. Txt spk innit!
As of what I know, there are currently 2000 lanuages that are spoken by less than 500 people all over the world. It will be a shame to lose so many lanuages. What I think is that the Modern times made more people speak english, and I can see that on lots of people combining English while they are speaking Hebrew, and it makes me feel bad. Is this what we want? I don't think that we encourage the use of different languages when not all languages are available for devices. For example, Windows only has 35 languages. As for Droids, I can't get the phone to use hebrew as UI OS without flashing another ROM. There are languages that aren't even learnt today, such as Yidish and Ladino (both jewish languages).
I think we could do more to help with this, but we should know where we are headed to.
DirkGently1 said:
Sadly the telephone has done more harm to the written language than anything else i could mention. Txt spk innit!
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Not sure I agree. There is a big plus from texting. Although much of the earlier texting was a basic shorthand, and a lot is communication was thought based rather than form based. The one thing that email, texting and alike did was, it recharged the written word again. Before email/texting the Cell phone was making people more verbal, then the email and then texting brought new life back into the written word.
The one thing that is a decided disadvantage with younger people is the inability to know the difference between correct written form and slang form. So much so, that most of the college grads that work for me write @ a 6-7 grade level ( and they graduated ? go figure). This is what most people who know how to write complain about poor understanding of language. A simple example : "get off the bus" vs "exit the but" The first is informal and a unique use of the language to imply action (phrasal verb) vs the correct written form. It is OK to use either, the problem to me with most people is that they do not know the difference or why........ that is the failing in our modern education..........
All this rant will not change many but if a few pick up the idea of how language is a form of logic just like math with formulas and rules like math, then maybe some will want to know more......... one can hope............
oka1 said:
A simple example : "get off the bus" vs "exit the but"
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I hope you mean bus. Otherwise, hmmmm
I agree 1000% on this. So many beautiful languages that die out every day.
oka1 said:
Not sure I agree. There is a big plus from texting. Although much of the earlier texting was a basic shorthand, and a lot is communication was thought based rather than form based. The one thing that email, texting and alike did was, it recharged the written word again. Before email/texting the Cell phone was making people more verbal, then the email and then texting brought new life back into the written word. )
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Right, writing to communicate real-time is brand new, and its own thing. Literature won't be affected much. On the other hand, because people are speaking through text in real-time, literacy is through the roof. More people can read and write today than ever before, and that's thanks to chat rooms and texting.
On another point you made, I wouldn't worry about people choosing to use more words than necessary. We do that in speech all the time, and rather than a failure of modern education, those variations in word choice are one way that languages change. They always have changed, and always will. We're just more aware of it now than we were.
As of what I know, there are currently 2000 lanuages that are spoken by less than 500 people all over the world. It will be a shame to lose so many lanuages. What I think is that the Modern times made more people speak english, and I can see that on lots of people combining English while they are speaking Hebrew, and it makes me feel bad. Is this what we want? I don't think that we encourage the use of different languages when not all languages are available for devices. For example, Windows only has 35 languages. As for Droids, I can't get the phone to use hebrew as UI OS without flashing another ROM. There are languages that aren't even learnt today, such as Yidish and Ladino (both jewish languages).
I think we could do more to help with this, but we should know where we are headed to.
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Languages mixing is also pretty natural, always happened, just not at the rate they are now. The cool thing about xda and how it can help is that anyone can make the UI you need. Yes, you need to flash it, but then, you could build a Hebrew ROM from stock and make Google, Motorola, Samsung, HTC, or whoever aware of it in hopes that they'll include it. Google published a blog recently about how Africa is a surprisingly fast-growing continent of Android users, probably in response to the fight between Arabs and Blackberry. At any rate, I'm sure they're more than happy to have people do the grunt work for them in bringing new languages to OSs.
来自DFT team的老爷子在给大家带来7713之后，又要有新的自制rom发布了！
今天在微博上看见老爷子发话了！
DFT黑暗論壇
今天本想發怖新核心的WP7 5種機子的ROM,看這樣子也不必要發啦!辛苦制作給免費使用還得天天看被攻擊得的臉色，我這干啥?自討苦吃還是......
在那里的网络环境很是复杂，某些论坛为了取得私利，不择手段的对其他论坛进行排挤、攻击。
老爷子是无私的、光明正大的为广大WP7用户着想，但是总有一些不该发生的事情发生了。
我们谴责这种攻击行为，希望大家支持老爷子，给予他力量吧！这样我们才能得到发展，广大WP7玩家才能有所收获！
再次谴责那些进行网络恶意攻击的臭虫，希望大家联合起来让那些恶意攻击的人得到惩罚
也希望DFT team早日恢复，为广大WP7用户带来最好的使用体验！
If you are using Google Chrome, you can try to translate into the language you need! thanks！
Today saw the microblogging Father has spoken!
DFT Dark forum
Today, wanted to re-dissemination of the new core WP7 5 种 machine's ROM, look this way and unnecessary send it! Hard to make free use of attack was to have to handle every day the face, my doing? Ask for it or ......
There is a complex network environment, some of the forum in order to obtain self-interest, unscrupulous exclusion of the other forums to attack.
Father is a selfless, honest for the sake of the majority of WP7 users, but there are always some things that happened should not have happened.
We condemn this attack, hope you will support Father, give him strength! So that we can develop, the majority of players can be harvested WP7!
Once again condemns the network of malicious attacks bug, hope to unite those who maliciously attack people to get punished
Hope DFT team early recovery, for the majority of users WP7 best experience!
used google translator
楼主这帖子不知道有多少人能看懂:d
在此强烈谴责山寨的xda
有高手进行翻译的，再说了老外看懂了也不能做什么
只是告诉大家一些事情，其实是我们自己知道的
czhi said:
楼主这帖子不知道有多少人能看懂:d
在此强烈谴责山寨的xda
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Ummmm...what?! Lol..thanks for the translation aclegg2011, but I believe it may need some further translating lol
in a few words, the guy seem to say we need to support the DFT team in place of attacking him in all fronts because soon they will bring us the best WP7 experience.
This should be closed as it will probably lead nowhere but getting some people nervous!
我靠~~ 强帖留名~~~
估计没多少人能看懂吧.... xDD
谴责山寨xda+1~~
what kind of support?
Sorry, but rules are simply clear:
Use English language.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Forum Runner
Hey,
I'd like to learn Japanese but don't really know where I can learn it from, I would like to have some basic knowledge and preferably it teaches you the Japanese script aswell. Free websites and non-trial ones (I tried one and it was a trial, I was getting in to the language when that happened :/, I can't really afford to pay xP). If you have some spare time and would like to teach me some yourself on Skype or something it would be greatly appreciated
Thanks,
Daniel Attard
Rosetta Stone seems to be popular and well reviewed. Kinda on the pricey side though. Looks like you can try it out though before you purchase..... http://www.rosettastone.com/
I'm going through the Rosetta Stone Japanese program now and have to say it works amazingly well. They really do have a good way of getting it to stick in your head. After going through just two modules I didn't think I was learning anything, but then I was watching some anime and realized that I was able to pick out some words and could also start understanding the separation of words. Of course it wasn't cheep but works.
I don't think you will find many free programs that will allow you to get the same kind of retention unless you get a cracked version. On a parting note it is pretty fun to learn. I started playing Go and kind of became obsessed with Japanese culture.
I've usued Rosetta Stone, and it works well to get you to recognize patterns, but it's hard to teach you extensive a language that is so different from English. Another option is Duolingo, but I've never used that for Japanese it works best with Latin-based languages so take that with a grain of salt. The most successful way I've had of learning Japanese without an instructor was by Japanese textbooks (*surprise*). Personally, the Genki books work wonders.