Database Develop

Integrated Antenna

What do people think about integrated antennas like these:
http://store.mp3car.com/Roof_top_GPS_Cellular_PCS_WiFi_antenna_p/com-008.htm
I am thinking about getting one like this for my car obviously to up the gps and cellular signal strength.
A question I have for any TyTn II experts, Which antenna does the WiFi use, is it integrated into the cellular antenna or gps or neither?

Neither, I believe all three have their own internal antennas. I say this because I have seen the internal photos of the Hermes and Trinity (which has GPS) and they had seperate small antennas. The Kaiser has two external antenna ports but after bricking my 1st Hermes by plugging an external antenna in and having it kill my radio, I'll never play the external game again. Besides it seems to work very well on all radios, even simultaneously, without externals.

I Would Have To Go With All In A 3 In One (technicaly)
FROM MY EXPERIENCE I WOULD SAY THAT THEY ALL WORK WITH THE RIGHT DRIVERS.
hOW EVER BEING ABSTRACT I WOULD SAY SINCE I BELIEVE MOST OF ALL THE PHONES HAVE GPS BUILT IN and THAT THE WRITE DRIVER SHOULD GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO UTILIZE THE antenna FROM THE PHONE WHICH HAS MORE THAN ONE WIRE IN IT.
external NOW YOUR TALKING SOME EXTRA BOOST JUST FOR YOUR CONNECTION TO IT.
YOU CANT GO WRONG, TRICK IS ALL ABOUT TIME AND EFFICIENCY COST IS PERSONAL OPINION[
good luck

The first photo is with the rubber grommet off and you can see the hole that goes through to the documented external GPS antenna. In the red circle is a piece of plastic that is blocking another external antenna port.
The 2nd photo is with the whole back off and inside the circle again you can see the extra antenna port.

aboutthemind said:
FROM MY EXPERIENCE I WOULD SAY THAT THEY ALL WORK WITH THE RIGHT DRIVERS.
hOW EVER BEING ABSTRACT I WOULD SAY SINCE I BELIEVE MOST OF ALL THE PHONES HAVE GPS BUILT IN and THAT THE WRITE DRIVER SHOULD GIVE YOU THE ABILITY TO UTILIZE THE antenna FROM THE PHONE WHICH HAS MORE THAN ONE WIRE IN IT.
external NOW YOUR TALKING SOME EXTRA BOOST JUST FOR YOUR CONNECTION TO IT.
YOU CANT GO WRONG, TRICK IS ALL ABOUT TIME AND EFFICIENCY COST IS PERSONAL OPINION
good luck
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Click to collapse
1. Stop yelling!
2. Most phones do NOT have GPS built-in.
3. You don't need drivers to use an external antenna. It's a physical connection.
4. Get your facts straight.
5. I like the antenna. Now if it had an XM antenna in it, I would buy it in a heartbeat. It would also work great for wardriving (not with my Tilt, but with my laptop)

Another Fan i apologize for not being clear
Lidberg said:
1. Stop yelling!
Please refrain from giving me orders!
2. Most phones do NOT have GPS built-in.
Actually they do to eliminate have to change a board already n production. besides the kaiser is older like 5 years then an mda.
3. You don't need drivers to use an external antenna. It's a physical connection.
Who said anything about drivers for the XM Radio antenna. I said Driversfor the internal gps antena. Read the kaiser wiki... the wiki for the pre-installed gps module.
4. Get your facts straight.
Well this is the part where tell you my way of thinking. I dont read so bare with me considering i am self taught and taking over a hundred different phones apart i can even say with out knowing that they stopped the technology cause 1000 features that are to advanced become a forum!!!!
Again if you are a HTC technician or a hardware engineer for any of the pocket pc device i will with draw any of my comments.
How ever of your here for fun and to learn do a litle bit of home work before you accidentally insult some one willing to read your opinion.
Hope i was a little bit better in explaining what i meant
ciao
5. I like the antenna. Now if it had an XM antenna in it, I would buy it in a heartbeat. It would also work great for wardriving (not with my Tilt, but with my laptop)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This can be done

People don't like when you use ALL CAPS. It looks like you're yelling at them.
The way you made your statement, it sounded like you needed drivers for the GPS antenna, which is not true. You need drivers to utilize the GPS radio. Two different things. You even got the two mixed up in the same post.
I seriously doubt the Kaiser is 5 years old. Where are you getting this information??
Personally I think your statements tend to ramble and be incoherent, but I digress. The Kaiser is an excellent phone. I love having built-in GPS. I am probably going to buy an external GPS antenna for it, although it really doesn't need it. I can even get 2-3 birds inside my house.

aboutthemind said:
Actually they do to eliminate have to change a board already n production. besides the kaiser is older like 5 years then an mda.
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Click to collapse
What does this mean? That HTC or other cell phone manufacturer are removing components on a board they've already produced before they release a new phone? Why on earth would they do that when they could save the cost of buying the additional circuitry in the first place and just order a run of what they want?
I said Driversfor the internal gps antena.
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Antennae don't require drivers. Circuits do. What you're saying doesn't make any sense.
...they stopped the technology cause 1000 features that are to advanced become a forum!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This doesn't make any sense.
Again if you are a HTC technician or a hardware engineer for any of the pocket pc device i will with draw any of my comments.
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Click to collapse
I'm neither, but I believe you need to withdraw your comments.
Hope i was a little bit better in explaining what i meant
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Click to collapse
Not really, no. It sounds like you're saying the Kaiser is using a board that's five years old and has physically had circuits removed from it because HTC didn't want to provide all of the features/functions that they could. I sincerely doubt that this is the case, since they'll produce a couple million of these things and paying even $1 extra for circuits they'll remove and labor to remove them makes no sense when they can order up a board that they want and get it for cheaper.
Throw in that you posted in all caps (considered rude by just about everyone) and then provided information that just doesn't add up, I'm not surprised you got push back.

Again i apologize for beining insulted and for any misrepresentation
I really don't feel like explaining my self, so if you feel that i am attacking you i apologize.
considering that i have simply stated a an opinion and you have managed to exert the fact that you do not respect others. i will respond.
and seriously just take what you like in theory and leave the stuff that you dont like.
I am not going to explain that typing is not the easiest thing for me. please don't mistake that for a representation of how i deal with people.
PerfAlbion said:
What does this mean? That HTC or other cell phone manufacturer are removing components on a board they've already produced before they release a new phone? Why on earth would they do that when they could save the cost of buying the additional circuitry in the first place and just order a run of what they want?
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Click to collapse
PerfAlbion said:
Wow now were ar talking so a little lesson in busines 101 agan i can only base this on doing business in the us for over ten years this is not to have you answer me back
cost of labor for most manufacture is far greater than the price of parts in bulk.
out of respect for the people reading this ill stop thier.
Antennae don't require drivers. Circuits do. What you're saying doesn't make any sense.sorry for confusing the the exact words i was trying to offend everyone are you kidding me
1000 features that no one needs
This doesn't make any sense.
ok so since your opinion is not completely biast this again alies the theaory of an article in a vry small country called he us have youu heard of it?
Seriuosley i am in no mood to go over every line to some one that is biast to my comment that all of a sudden became an issue.
Listen genious and i do say geneous with respect the fact is and this goes for all. technology has far supercede the cash cow(people who buy, consumers, money, what makes the world go round)
i noticed after getting into the bigger phones like the 1700 and the BA and the hermes that they all look the same or have very similar compositions.
I came to the conclusion that they all had gps in them from a market professional stand pioint. So really just appriciate some input.
You want the facts well yeh its but so what i was trying to give some input before you reminded me that i wll end up having to type for an hour cause a genious felt it necessary to chalenge me.
I'm neither, but I believe you need to withdraw your comments.
Ok no problem please understand i was giving input and you decided to insult me.
I openly withdraw any comment i have ever made that you feel is not worthy as another member put it and if you would like me to say that i am sorry posting i do.
Not really, no. It sounds like you're saying
the Kaiser is using a board that's five years old and has physically had circuits removed from it because HTC didn't want to provide all of the features/functions that they could.
no one said anything about removal, baords for the most part have alot of he circuits on them it makes it vary easy to acomplish global standards and upgrades and maximizing profit by making upgrades look tangible.
I sincerely doubt that this is the case, since they'll produce a couple million of these things and paying even $1 extra for circuits they'll remove and labor to remove them makes no sense when they can order up a board that they want and get it for cheaper.
I agree that would make no sense thats why i would nt say it i see where your coming from.
Throw in that you posted in all caps (considered rude by just about everyone) and then provided information that just doesn't add up,
I'm not surprised you got push back.
i wouldnt know but i apriciate yur interest in my curent position and standings may be you could show me how i can get pms cause its very hard for me to read i have add and typing is the worst,
What a waste of time and energy i apologize to anyone having to read this
you see chief i didn't ven relize that that the caps lock was on but since you decide to think now i will tell you the system i use wich is also a system i created because of you thinking for me requires caps lock to be own as well as the state of ca on documents.
so again i apologize
record time MIKE 1:15 mins
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bazzatron said:
The first photo is with the rubber grommet off and you can see the hole that goes through to the documented external GPS antenna. In the red circle is a piece of plastic that is blocking another external antenna port.
The 2nd photo is with the whole back off and inside the circle again you can see the extra antenna port.
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the visual thats what i am talking about
back to the real question
i would look for any type of after market booster car kit easiest way is google the word china after it and you would be shocked what youll find they can pretty much customize anything the word to use for phones in china is not cellular or htc.. pocket pc
"mobile phone"
is the key word attached to gps car kit or what ever
always request a sample good luck only sugestion i am not an expert

sorry about the caps didnt see it
Lidberg said:
People don't like when you use ALL CAPS. It looks like you're yelling at them.
The way you made your statement, it sounded like you needed drivers for the GPS antenna, which is not true. You need drivers to utilize the GPS radio. Two different things. You even got the two mixed up in the same post.
again tabgled up up a bit my bad
I seriously doubt the Kaiser is 5 years old. Where are you getting this information??
well not to be a drag but the hermes is been around for ages and again not to be rude but the kaiser is not the first phone to have a total new build. just some awsome exploited adjustments.
Personally I think your statements tend to ramble and be incoherent, but I digress.
well i guess everyone has an opinion but no need to insult me
The Kaiser is an excellent phone. I love having built-in GPS. I am probably going to buy an external GPS antenna for it, although it really doesn't need it. I can even get 2-3 birds inside my house.
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Click to collapse
Kool let me know how it goes
if i get around to it
i am assuming it can hook into a car via blue toothe???????

aboutthemind said:
sue.
Listen genious and i do say geneous with respect the fact is and this goes for all. technology has far supercede the cash cow(people who buy, consumers, money, what makes the world go round)
i noticed after getting into the bigger phones like the 1700 and the BA and the hermes that they all look the same or have very similar compositions.
I came to the conclusion that they all had gps in them from a market professional stand pioint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't insult us by calling us "genius". There are a lot of very smart people on this board. Without their help, my phone wouldn't be nearly as fun to play with.
You made a pretty broad assumption that if one or two phones have GPS built-in, then all of them do. The fact is, very few phones have GPS built-in. My last phone, the 8525, was a very good phone with lots of features. It's less than a year old and it doesn't have GPS. Go ahead and keep making those assumptions and you'll stand out as someone who doesn't know how to do any kind of research. You will make yourself look like a fool.
P.S. Spell check is your friend. Use it.

Actually the 8525 does have GPS! However, after in-depth investigation these XDA folks identified that while the IC Chipset did have GPS as part of it's standard fratures, HTC shorted those particular pins to ground on the circuit board and did not include the internal amp and antenna assembly as well so it was impossible to make it work on them without major micro surgery. The Trinity, however, had the components and thru software was able to have it's GPS come to life. But certainly all phones don't have Chipsets with integrated GPS.
I would agree that many companies will use a particular chip and elect NOT to provide all of the features at first release or for specific models, that is normal marketing driven buisness and gives us reasons to buy the next model.
XDA certainly has made it possible for us all to reap the collective tinkering experience and get more from the phones we have and sometimes get these hidden features with a little work.
No disrespect "aboutthemind", but I must agree that your text is a challenge to understand, but I'm always amazed at the worldwide, round-the-clock, activity on this forum. I've learned so much here.

RemE said:
Actually the 8525 does have GPS! However, after in-depth investigation these XDA folks identified that while the IC Chipset did have GPS as part of it's standard fratures, HTC shorted those particular pins to ground on the circuit board and did not include the internal amp and antenna assembly as well so it was impossible to make it work on them without major micro surgery. The Trinity, however, had the components and thru software was able to have it's GPS come to life. But certainly all phones don't have Chipsets with integrated GPS.
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Click to collapse
I remember that discussion well about the 8525 GPS. I think one guy even had the GPS working, but only by disassembling the phone and having wires running everywhere. Not exactly portable...

Lidberg said:
I remember that discussion well about the 8525 GPS. I think one guy even had the GPS working, but only by disassembling the phone and having wires running everywhere. Not exactly portable...
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Click to collapse
Actually they got the GPS chip activated but could receive no valid data since the antenna bits were not present, they investigated the internal components and determined that it was basically not worth the effort to attempt to unsoldier all of the grounded pins on the chip and then get an amp/bandpass filter and antenna installed. No one ever got a 8525 to work and the project halted, but along came Kaiser!

Here's another one: http://www.mobileplanet.com/p.aspx?i=151025 much cheaper too, but only to be placed on the dash. Probably work just as good though.

My Wing has only one external connection. I bought a 3 watt Wilson booster which then goes to a Yagi (one directional antenna). Its awesome the reception I get. Costs about $300.00 to do all this.

ok no gps in 8525 and aboutthemind is a fool Y N
Lidberg said:
Don't insult us by calling us "genius". There are a lot of very smart people on this board. Without their help, my phone wouldn't be nearly as fun to play with.
You made a pretty broad assumption that if one or two phones have GPS built-in, then all of them do. The fact is, very few phones have GPS built-in. My last phone, the 8525, was a very good phone with lots of features. It's less than a year old and it doesn't have GPS. Go ahead and keep making those assumptions and you'll stand out as someone who doesn't know how to do any kind of research. You will make yourself look like a fool.
P.S. Spell check is your friend. Use it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
let me ask you a question, what gives you the right to speak for another person, I would you like to help the gentle man that was here for help cause i am confused as to why you want me to engage in this. i will if we can all end up with a gps that also gives you real-time police positions. Linberg i strongly sugest you bring a positive opinion to this one cause so far your not really contributing to a solution.
With all due respect sir, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I have addressed the typing and by the looks of it i don't think u get that you my friend are assuming that i am just swing info from my hip.
your right but it from my eyes and hands threw my head to a yellow box so you can see.
now the comment you made finished this so at least we know that your old phone has a gps in it what else can we add to the gentle mans question..
yes i am a fool for answering you but i'll just pass cause i have no interest in your theory due to the nature of your comments.
gps is in the 8525 and yes you can take apart a phone. and im gane i got one in pieces so no is the time but the kaisers 8525 so the fun is one and that is poff's world i would start by maybe doing some reading on his work mans a guru
Mike I'm trying my best but out of respect for the genius members all of them including this guy . i can't take another comment with out losing character.
Mr Lindberg i regret to inform you that calling people fool and names and insulting my dyslexias probably cost you. I like the name very historical but again i will only ask you one more time do not insult me and do not speak for the team

yes we have lift off
zcink said:
My Wing has only one external connection. I bought a 3 watt Wilson booster which then goes to a Yagi (one directional antenna). Its awesome the reception I get. Costs about $300.00 to do all this.
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Click to collapse
yeah thats what I'm talking about i like it. can yu post a link

aboutthemind said:
let me ask you a question, what gives you the right to speak for another person, I would you like to help the gentle man that was here for help cause i am confused as to why you want me to engage in this. i will if we can all end up with a gps that also gives you real-time police positions. Linberg i strongly sugest you bring a positive opinion to this one cause so far your not really contributing to a solution.
With all due respect sir, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. I have addressed the typing and by the looks of it i don't think u get that you my friend are assuming that i am just swing info from my hip.
your right but it from my eyes and hands threw my head to a yellow box so you can see.
now the comment you made finished this so at least we know that your old phone has a gps in it what else can we add to the gentle mans question..
yes i am a fool for answering you but i'll just pass cause i have no interest in your theory due to the nature of your comments.
gps is in the 8525 and yes you can take apart a phone. and im gane i got one in pieces so no is the time but the kaisers 8525 so the fun is one and that is poff's world i would start by maybe doing some reading on his work mans a guru
Mike I'm trying my best but out of respect for the genius members all of them including this guy . i can't take another comment with out losing character.
Mr Lindberg i regret to inform you that calling people fool and names and insulting my dyslexias probably cost you. I like the name very historical but again i will only ask you one more time do not insult me and do not speak for the team
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Click to collapse
Sorry man, but I can't make any sense out of what you're trying to say. I didn't put any words into your mouth. I don't know where you got that idea.
You made some pretty broad statements about GPS in phones and I told you that that is not true - most phones do not have GPS built-in. The 8525 has some of the hardware, but it is not a complete, workable solution.
Also, I did not call you a fool. I said you would look like a fool if you made broad statements about phones in general that are not true.
'nuff said.

Diamond destruction

Hey guys,
I had my Diamond for a few months now, and with the help and hard work by the great people in this forum I now got it from "unusable" (the way it was when it came out of the box) to "almost working" after flashing many different ROMs, trying tweaks, installing and uninstalling applications and hacks.
The device still is laggish, slow, unresponsive. Many things still suck hard, and it still crashes at least once a day. The ridiculous fact that there is a "reset manager" installed which does a scheduled soft reset every now and then speaks for itself.
To cut this short, I decided to destroy what I believe is the greatest piece of sh** you could ever put a SIM card into, and I want to do it in the most spectacular way possible.
The reasons for destroying it are:
1. It sucks so hard it makes me aggressive, I feel like throwing it on the ground at least once a day when I wait for an important call only to discover that that sob crashed two hours ago or when a phone call is dropped in the middle of a conversation
2. my friends laugh at me because I have the most sophisticated, most expensive cell phone and I am the one having the greatest trouble with it.
3. It HAS to be destroyed so it doesn't fall into someone else's hands and devours someone else's time, money and energy
4. It's fun, isn't it?
I will make a video of the destruction process and post it either here or on Youtube for the amusement of the community.
What I need now are your suggestions on how to do it. Please participate in the poll attached to this thread and let me know what you think.

i wouldnt mind
hi, i wouldnt mind my time and money devoured by this evil diamond of yours =)
really, but elf broke down today, and i hope they will replace it with something awesomer, but i dont have that kind of money to buy myself a new one =P
you can destroy my touch, it has caused me even more trouble than you diamond i think =D

Give it to someone else...
There are even people finding it fantastic...
Or to a chef, that he can continue to make excellent ROMs...
I think, that Dutty broke his Diamond and is looking for another one...
Ok, I go out...

the point
c'mon you guys, this is not about getting rid of the device. We have a working public service here and they collect trash every two weeks.
No, this is about something else. It is about the question what exactly is happening here, why this forum exists and what has become normal in the world of 2008.
It is that a manufacturer has brought a device to the market that can only be used after hours and hours spent on doing what the developers were supposed to do. People like Dutty, who's ROM I am using right now, deserve not only respect for what they are doing, they also deserve to get PAID for it - not by donations, but with cold hard cash from HTC.
I can buy an electric two-speed hammer drill here at the hardware store for the equivalent of 10 US Dollars, it comes with printed instructions, a small bag with tools and replacement brushes, and a plastic carrying box. It is covered by a two year warranty.
On the other hand, I can buy a $500 piece of crap called the Touch Diamond, which is almost unuseable in the state I got it out of the box because of being FAR too slow to be used in an everyday manner. I can then spend HOURS AND DAYS on re-flashing, updating and customizing it with the results of work done by people like Dutty and all the others here who ALSO have spent their time and energy on the same goal, and I end up with a device that only crashed once a day and still is SLOW. Neither the manufacturer of the hardware nor Microsoft who have done the software GIVES A SH**.
I am currently writing a book on this and many other topics, on things that are to be considered somewhere between ripoff and burglary, and that have become widely accepted just because of the lack of alternatives.
Look at the dreaded Iphone, for example. A device that has NOTHING outstanding to offer, a mediocre PDA combined with a mediocre MP3 player, a mediocre 2MP camera, and a mediocre cell phone - all it has is USABILITY.
A technical piece of equipment, be it a cell phone or a hammer drill, has two basic reasons to justify its existence: functionality and usability. A hammer drill has to drill holes, but must also enable the user to handle it appropriately.
The Diamond lacks both of these. It is still full of bugs and flaws, as we all know, and it is hardly usable without the f***ing stylus. The Iphone has both, it is blazing fast AND it is a charm to handle, but it has no ground-breaking features AND it comes with the restrictive policies of Apple Computer that we all know.
Before anybody gets excited, the Iphone is NOT an alternative to the Diamond. My old Nokia 7373 is because it just WORKS.
I have to state an example here, and that's why the Diamond has to die. I will not give it to anyone, even though I would love to support the community, but I think I give a greater gift to society if only ONE person reads this and ends up thinking - wow, what a scam by HTC and M$.
Please participate in the poll ;-)

Why don't you just send it for repair?

What REPAIR?? What should I write as fault description: "SLOW, LAGGISH, FULL OF BUGS"?
Try to send Windows Vista in for repair, maybe you will get back the first error-free operating system in the known universe, for free...
That's the way it SHOULD be, but sadly, the way it IS is different.

I know at least 3 users who don't know this site and are using their stock diamond. They don't have the bottom-edge expectations as you seem to have.
I have them and yes, i find them here. This is another stupid, boring thread about something YOU COULD HAVE KNOWN from the start.
These are silly devices which cannot replace a PC, just phone and fun. I have seriously NO ISSUES AT ALL so please don't start spamming this **** again. I think that is stupid, we had enough of those people right at the beginning.
You buy it, YOU pay 500 dollar, YOU go into the marketing.
HTC makes money of it, makes a living of people working there. That's how market works. Stop complaining after you buy something. Then just don't buy it. You always have options to try out first.

Like the idea...
But you forgot to put in the option of putting it in acid and let it slowly dissolve into notingness...
That would get my vote!

abel7777 said:
What REPAIR?? What should I write as fault description: "SLOW, LAGGISH, FULL OF BUGS"?
Try to send Windows Vista in for repair, maybe you will get back the first error-free operating system in the known universe, for free...
That's the way it SHOULD be, but sadly, the way it IS is different.
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Click to collapse
3 months ago you were saying something completely different:
"I love the phone, really the first usable device without keyboard that relies on dialling via virtual keyboard. Still have the Samsung Armani thing here waiting to go on Ebay..."
It is really the peer pressure is not it? And the destruction show is mainly for them? Hardly anybody of the xda-developers members would make a good audience.
I felt disappointed with the Diamond when I got it in June this year and yes, the feeling of rage came to me especially when the GPS was unable to get a fix.
Since then I learnt how to tweak the phone and today I can say that if it was misplaced I would get the same phone again.
Perhaps your phone really developed some hardware problem that demonstrates itself in lockups and sluggishness. I had my phone last week sitting next to iphone and all comparable applications such as the google maps were running at the same speed.
And I do not need to restart it unless I do a lot of browsing with Opera, which is still in beta and the latest version 29/10 seems to have fixed even that.

Spamming, Riel, is what you do. Nobody cares about how many people you know that are willing to live with an overpriced device that doesn't stand up to what it promises. There are millions of organisms that eat feces and are happy with it, did you know that?
I could NOT have known from the start about any of the negative experiences I had to make while trying to use the Touch Diamond. When you buy a machine, like a coffee maker, you expect that it will make coffee. That is the implication of the fact that the coffee maker exists and is being sold as one.
I have bought a very expensive cell phone, implicating that I can make and receive phone calls and send SMS, and it does not even accomplish these basic tasks without showing bugs and errors. Another implicit expectation is that a device sold in 2008 would be at least as fast and responsive as my 2001 Ericsson T39m, at least as far as telephony and SMS are concerned.
I wouldn't complain if the Diamond needed 1-2 seconds to start a complex application like Google Maps, but it needs 1-2 seconds to switch from my email inbox to an already running Opera, and 3 seconds to take a picture after pressing the shutter button, and yes, it crashes during and after phone calls quite frequently.
Yes, I used other WM phones like the Samsung Omnia or even the Xperia (had the chance to play with it for half a day) and the ALL had these problems. Unfortunately I had already bought the Diamond...
I am not whining or complaining about the loss of money. If I was, I would sell the Diamond on Ebay or somewhere else instead of destroying it.
Riel, I have many devices here that simply do not function properly, with manufacturers not caring about it and saying that I have to live with it, including even a CAR.
What you wrote is just an example for how many people today have stopped thinking about what they can expect for their money. I would love to sell you a hammer drill that takes 30 minutes for drilling a hole, quits unexpectedly from time to time for no obvious reason, and weighs 20 pounds. People like YOU would be quite happy with it as long as it looks fancy, has a blue display on top of it and makes sounds like a device from Star Trek.

catdog said:
3 months ago you were saying something completely different:
"I love the phone, really the first usable device without keyboard that relies on dialling via virtual keyboard. Still have the Samsung Armani thing here waiting to go on Ebay..."
It is really the peer pressure is not it? And the destruction show is mainly for them? Hardly anybody of the xda-developers members would make a good audience.
Yes, that's what I wrote, and it is still true. The Diamond is the first device I had in my hands that has no numeric keyboard AND allows dialling with one finger without major problems. True.
That was BEFORE I started using it beyond the capabilities of an ordinary cell phone, and BEFORE it started hanging or crashing in the middle of a call.
I wrote that I was impressed by the way I could dial numbers with the Diamond compared to the Armani, and that is still true as well.
No honey, it is not peer pressure. I don't mind running around with a pink Nokia everybody makes fun of, I did this for half a year, everybody was laughing, I didn't care. The fact is that I missed calls from people because of the phone not ringing and had to explain to them that my $500 high-tech phone is unable to play a ringtone when someone calls me. If somebody finds that funny, they are not making fun of me, but of HTC and Microsoft who sell crap like that for money. I can only make fun of myself because I was stupid enough to buy it, and this experience will keep me from buying any Windows Mobile device before I had the chance to play with WM7 for at least a week.
And come on, some people really need to lighten up a little. This is supposed to be a fun thread, it is about creating a funny video, if you don't want to read it press ALT-F4 and do something else.
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Chris1974 said:
Like the idea...
But you forgot to put in the option of putting it in acid and let it slowly dissolve into notingness...
That would get my vote!
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Very good idea, but I don't think there is any acid that will dissolve the plastic housing. What we would get would be a device where some internal parts would be eaten up by acid, but I don't think very much would be visible on the outside.
Apart from that, it is hard to get concentrated sulfuric acid due to the danger it imposes.

abel7777 said:
Spamming, Riel, is what you do. Nobody cares about how many people you know that are willing to live with an overpriced device that doesn't stand up to what it promises. There are millions of organisms that eat feces and are happy with it, did you know that?
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So why are you putting US up with your expectations? It's obvouis that the phone is good enough for the masses.
I could NOT have known from the start about any of the negative experiences I had to make while trying to use the Touch Diamond. When you buy a machine, like a coffee maker, you expect that it will make coffee. That is the implication of the fact that the coffee maker exists and is being sold as one.
I have bought a very expensive cell phone, implicating that I can make and receive phone calls and send SMS, and it does not even accomplish these basic tasks without showing bugs and errors. Another implicit expectation is that a device sold in 2008 would be at least as fast and responsive as my 2001 Ericsson T39m, at least as far as telephony and SMS are concerned.
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It does more then I want to. Don't know what your problem is, but I call, mail, sms, synchronise, navigate, play games etc. No it does not make coffee. And, yes, you had the option of trying it for a while.
I wouldn't complain if the Diamond needed 1-2 seconds to start a complex application like Google Maps, but it needs 1-2 seconds to switch from my email inbox to an already running Opera, and 3 seconds to take a picture after pressing the shutter button, and yes, it crashes during and after phone calls quite frequently.
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Just edit the registry. When you are not pations, you can set those delays to zero. The average user has no problems with it.
Yes, I used other WM phones like the Samsung Omnia or even the Xperia (had the chance to play with it for half a day) and the ALL had these problems. Unfortunately I had already bought the Diamond... I am not whining or complaining about the loss of money. If I was, I would sell the Diamond on Ebay or somewhere else instead of destroying it.
Riel, I have many devices here that simply do not function properly, with manufacturers not caring about it and saying that I have to live with it, including even a CAR.
What you wrote is just an example for how many people today have stopped thinking about what they can expect for their money. I would love to sell you a hammer drill that takes 30 minutes for drilling a hole, quits unexpectedly from time to time for no obvious reason, and weighs 20 pounds. People like YOU would be quite happy with it as long as it looks fancy, has a blue display on top of it and makes sounds like a device from Star Trek.
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Simple.
I think the perfect phone would cost 10.000 dollars, if you know what I mean.

Riel said:
So why are you putting US up with your expectations? It's obvouis that the phone is good enough for the masses.
It does more then I want to. Don't know what your problem is, but I call, mail, sms, synchronise, navigate, play games etc. No it does not make coffee. And, yes, you had the option of trying it for a while.
Just edit the registry. When you are not pations, you can set those delays to zero. The average user has no problems with it.
Simple.
I think the perfect phone would cost 10.000 dollars, if you know what I mean.
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Click to collapse
Well, Riel, I did not have the option of trying it for a while as you wrote... At first, it looks - and feels - great. You play around with all the features, discover the G-sensor, try a little GPS with Google Maps - great. It's like getting a new car with new features that the old one didn't have - electric windows, electric seats, more power, everything smells new - great.
When after a couple of weeks you notice a rattle behind the glove box you start noticing things that you didn't see - or didn't want to see - when it was new.
I don't see me here putting the blame on anyone on this board. I put the blame on the manufacturer who didn't do his job, be it for the hardware or the software part. Why should I edit the registry in my unpaid time to fix a camera delay that I am not responsible for?
You buy a new car, you notice that the air conditioner doesn't work. Would you start tweaking this yourself? Just edit the registry, put in another orifice, flush the system, and maybe that helps?
You are right, the perfect phone would cost a lot of money. Maybe $10000 as you write. Maybe a little less. If it would exist, I would happily spend like $2500 on it. But I don't think it would have to be so expensive - the Iphone is a good start, but with all of its implicit (no flash, no cut-and-paste, too big, poor resolution...) and synthetic (restrictive Apple policies) limitations it's no alternative.
I did not intend to create a discussion like this, I wanted to let all of you participate in the execution of my phone, that's what the poll is for. I am SURE that very many people from this board will watch the video once it's there. I am not torturing lab mice here, it's just a phone so no need to get excited.

If you really want to destroy such a nice device id say go with boiling water and then shoot the hell out of it :>
I love my diamond with duttys ROM, I was disappointed for a while after i bought it how slow it is (1st ones that came out). but since I had tweaked my old wizard here this didnt feel so hard to do the same for this.
my first Diamond got stolen in Bulgaria and I had insurance choice to take money or new phone, I gone for new Diamond. it had new rom and was pretty fast without any tweaks

abel7777 said:
That was BEFORE I started using it beyond the capabilities of an ordinary cell phone, and BEFORE it started hanging or crashing in the middle of a call.
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Definitively a hardware issue. I had a couple of phones like that and they were both fixed in warranty by the manufacturer's service centre.
The problem is that it is hard to distinguish between software issues and hardware problems on a device like Diamond unless you had a working phone in your hand.
Switching between applications is instant, just tried now from inbox to opera running under 1 sec.
Oh and with the Camera lag- it is there on purpose, it is meant to stabilize the picture after pressing the shutter. I have the shutter delay off and it takes the photo within 1/2 sec.

you can double press the camera button to take a instant picture. It has a Auto Focus, which is why it takes a couple of seconds. Length of time does depend on light conditions. more light = quicker to take picture

The Bad and Ugly of American Cell Phones

Not quite a super hero, by day I am your average, 3rd tier tech support representative for a certain (pretty damn easy to figure out if you’re not a complete idiot) cell phone company. Throughout the rest of my life, I’m an angry computer geek, lashing out at just about everyone (hey, why discriminate?) that gets in my way.
So I’ve got a few things rolling around in my mind about these mobile devices and I’m looking for input at the end of this mess, as usual. Remember though, Confucius says, “There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.”
Here’s a bit of a rundown of the modern American cell phone. You’ll probably find a bit on cell phone plans/contracts in here, too. To be honest, I normally just ramble on until something makes enough sense to post, so I don’t know what all will be listed.
I personally believe the last “innovation” that should have happened for the cell phone is the clock. For about 75% of the people I talk to each day, that’s enough. See I’m all about customer service and the reason I’m not in sales is because the same people I talk to daily on the phone are the ones I would deter from buying anything other than a Jitterbug. They can’t use it. When I’m trying to explain to someone how to backup their information and they don’t know what the “Start” button is on their computer, they have no reason owning any phone that could be considered a PDA. Personally, I would like a netbook that made phone calls. I don’t want something Zoolander-ish, because I have fat fingers and expect too much from a device I can type on.
However, my “vision” will never be. There will always be idiots with too much money for their own good, but at least I’ll always have a job somewhere.
Now that I’ve got that out of the way, here’s a list of some current “features” of cell phones and the good and bad about them.
QWERTY Keyboards – These are great when people actually use them. I’ll never understand what the point is when they’re still typing in gibberish. “OMG!! U r so fun e!”
SMS Messages – A great concept ruined by greed. Why do we only have 160 characters to use in a text message? I read somewhere that it came about because it was the amount of characters as one line of text on a typewriter. That could be wrong, but real question should be, “Why do we still only have 160 characters to use in a text message?” Greed. SMS is beyond cheap for the carriers, but they will charge you 10 and 20 cents per message sent and received.
MMS Messages – Limited depending on the carrier to as little as 300kb. I tell customers each day to use email instead, because it’s not limited and it is more reliable. Ideally, they would make this invisible to the user, and just have the phones email each other. Realistically, we charge another 10 to 20 cents per message, for something that is easier to do than getting an STD from a hooker.
E911 (GPS) – Now included in every phone you can buy, because it’s required by law. I’m sure the FCC was worried about your safety when they made carriers track every cell phone within 100 meters… Riiiight. But I’m doing my best not to rant on the government so I’ll leave it at that. Fascists.
Touch Screens – “Why can’t I keep it my pocket with my keys?” Yes, I’ve heard this, and yes, they were serious. Negative for normal people? Touch Screen capabilities are great, and cheaper to make now than ever before. But the manufacturer will charge more for this just because they can. Don’t worry, you’ll get your 3D fix soon too.
USB/Other Serial Ports – These are great for people that want to physically connect their devices while syncing, but normally these ports are on the bottom of the phone, and people setting their phones in damp cup holders cause water damage to the device. Would it be harder to put this on the side? No, but how would they make money that way?
Minutes – Local, Long Distance, Roaming, International, International Roaming, Roaming on a Partner Network, Daytime, Nighttime, Weekend, Holiday, Inter-carrier, Intra-carrier, Circle… No matter what they tell you, no matter what they tell their employees, they make this confusing on purpose. How else are the carriers going to charge hundreds per month?
Internet/Data/Email/etc. – Having access to the web is a great convenience. Now I can watch that Jib Jab movie. Oh wait, that’s Flash, that doesn’t work in most of the phones… Oh, wait! I can watch Netflix! Oh, no I can’t. Well at least I can pay more for the web on my phone than I pay for it at home and get half the functionality…
Contracts – I don’t necessarily disagree with contracts, but part of why many people don’t treat their devices like they are expensive pieces of equipment is because they don’t have to pay for them. If more people had to pay $200-$500 for their flashy cell phone they may actually take care of the damn thing, which leads me to...
Insurance – There is no reason the carrier should be involved in this. Say we didn’t have insurance, and you had to get it, and any tech support, from the cell phone manufacturer. I’m not exactly a nice guy to people who call in that have bought one phone, seven years ago, but have managed to ***** to enough people to get them replaced by the carrier. The carrier should stay out of the hardware game, and there should be no such thing as “locks” on the devices. I don’t have to buy a new computer (or even a modem) when I switch ISPs. Oh ****, I hope Charter doesn’t read that…
Most of these things could be fixed if people just refused to pay for crappy service. I don’t like supporting sweatshops, so I don’t shop at Wal-Mart. It is your choice… You don’t need a cell phone. Anyways, that’s enough out of me. Like I said up there, I want your input, because I like to hear what you guys have to say.
Thanks again for being bored enough to read all of that,
Drunk

There are two types of people in this world, consumers, and well people who actually pay attention. . .
If people payed attention now adays cellphones would be way different lol.

Qwerty keyboards - I agree with your comment. Perhaps the gibberish typing still exists because of the 160 character limit for SMS? Or perhaps they're just acting like crazed 12 year olds...
MMS - I never understood why anyone would use MMS over email. The size limit means that anything you send will just not be of any high quality. You might as well not send it.
I/O ports - I don't agree with moving these ports to the side. I've had a 2 devices with side I/O ports and it was quite awkward. Besides, having it on the bottom allows 3rd parties to easily make docks. Perhaps the smarter solution would be to not put your device into a damp cup holder?
Data - It's inevitable that mobile data is going to be more expensive than your home broadband. But prices have been coming down in the past years. And if you tether your device to your laptop, you have the full web experience.

I actually see the benefit of tethering growing as we bring on new technologies, but they're going to charge more for tethering if they allow it at all, which only validates my complaint even more.

I wanted to add that technology should work for us, not the other way around. Personally, I would avoid the cupholder but it should be on the manufacturer to move this, for phones and docks alike.

People buying complex devices for basic needs, and being surprised when they don't work seamlessly, is definitely a major problem and happens accross a wide variety of sectors.
Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you should have it
I agree that having the port at the bottom makes more sense, astheticall and in terms of docs & accessories. I guess I've never placed my phone in a wet cupholder.

I have notice that when i'm in a country like India, china etc, a single call is cheaper than a us dollar... Is it because of population differences ?, Canada only has a population of 34 million. In USA you have cheap ass data plan ( unlimited data) while in Canada its 30 dollars for only 500 mb...

$30 for unlimited isn't exactly cheap, although definitely better than in Canada. Overall pricing in the US is pretty bad, especially on voice and texting (seriously, texting should be free if you have a data plan).

This is definitely futuristic/alienistic - new type of engine

Finally! there is a power source technology that is so strange and different that it is alienistic (tech that appears advanced enough to seem from aliens).
Make sure to watch the video.
http://www.gizmag.com/huttlin-kugelmotor/19923/

Wow, that's a novel concept and no mistake! I think we all agree that we need something to change if we're going to overcome the energy problems we face, and how long has the internal combustion engine stayed basically the same now?
It's about time we started seeing some more technological advances. I for one haven't given up hope of owning a time travelling De Lorean!

how very innovative and interesting!
nice find

DirkGently1 said:
Wow, that's a novel concept and no mistake! I think we all agree that we need something to change if we're going to overcome the energy problems we face, and how long has the internal combustion engine stayed basically the same now?
It's about time we started seeing some more technological advances. I for one haven't given up hope of owning a time travelling De Lorean!
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Click to collapse
For one thing, the electric car companies need to design cars so compelling that the high and mighty, who are opposing electric power, would want them. There are a couple electric car makers doing exactly that and the latest one is whittling away at the resistance.
This is the latest I speak of: http://www.gizmag.com/artega-se-electric-sportscar/18205/

There are a lot of issues with electric vehicles that people don't consider. For example, we don't have the resources to make all the batteries that would be needed, and to do so would be so harmful to the environment that it would totally negate any 'green' benefit of these cars anyway.
Electric cars need to be charged. The electricity to do this has to come from power stations, that are still mostly burning fossil fuels. So again, no net gain. Still not green, still reliant on fossil fuels.
So we go renewable then. Except a wind turbine has to run for fifteen years just to pay back the environmental cost of manufacturing it in the first place.
When you take into account all of the factors involved, there are no easy solutions!

Hope this become accessible some time before I die...

I want a nuclear fusion powered jet pack that runs on sea water!
Call me when they make that happen!

DirkGently1 said:
There are a lot of issues with electric vehicles that people don't consider. For example, we don't have the resources to make all the batteries that would be needed, and to do so would be so harmful to the environment that it would totally negate any 'green' benefit of these cars anyway.
Electric cars need to be charged. The electricity to do this has to come from power stations, that are still mostly burning fossil fuels. So again, no net gain. Still not green, still reliant on fossil fuels.
So we go renewable then. Except a wind turbine has to run for fifteen years just to pay back the environmental cost of manufacturing it in the first place.
When you take into account all of the factors involved, there are no easy solutions!
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All of what you said is the resistance I speak of. The infrastructure is where the world needs to start and that's where the most resistance is. There are some very heavy hitters depending on the luxurious life oil provides them. Unless they can benefit in some way just as happily from the usage of electric technology, they will resist giving up their luxurious, oil-based lifestyle.
All of what you said could be quickly resolved and overcome if the world was united behind it. But when the super-duper heavy hitters resist, they make an impact.

There is a technological barrier though. At the most basic..and important level, is energy. Any physicist will tell you we needs it, and we don't have the means to produce enough of it! Not in a sustainable and 'green' way, anyway.
Read some Lovelock and you'll see what i mean. There's a reason why 'Gaia' is one of the most seminal and contoversial works on the subject!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gaia-New-L...0305/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1316814256&sr=8-5
A sustainable Nuclear Fusion reaction is the biggest hope we have right now. Keep your fingers crossed for the likes of the ITER project:
http://dlib.eastview.com/browse/doc/7886243
Remember that energy has to come from somewhere! The impact it has on the planet has to do with what we have the most of...and it's impact on the biosphere. A nuclear fusion reaction can be fed with Hydrogen, the most abundant element in the universe, and found in plentiful supply on Earth in seawater!
Anything short of that is just robbing Peter to pay Paul. Unsustainable!

delete please

double post sorry.

snapz54 said:
Today we’re looking at the SIGNALBOOST DT from Wilson Electronics.
Click here for pricing, working informational links, and links to purchase.
This is the home version of the Wilson's cell phone signal booster tech, you remember that we'd taken a look at the Sleek 4G-v a while ago which is the in car solution to low bars and dropped calls. Wilson makes a version of their tech to grow and fit any need. Aside from home and auto options that you can easily install yourself, they offer large scale systems that can cover your entire business with a professional installation. As I'd mentioned in the Sleek 4G review, this isn't a gimmick. No stickers, no false promises. If you have at least a little bit of signal, Wilson's products can amplify it. Read on...
Click here to see a video slideshow of the SIGNALBOOST DT
Main advantage: No physical connection to cell phone needed, product will wirelessly boost the signal of an entire room in your home
Main concern: Install is simple, but not easy. Specific distances need to be maintained and based on the layout of your home things can get a bit tricky
Unique features: Works with all major carriers, Boosts the signals of multiple phones at the same time
I still personally maintain the theory that the cell service providers greatly limit the true capabilities of phones to always have a wild card up their sleeves. When technology has advanced beyond anything and it's hard to impress they can always announce, “guaranteed signal increase of up to two bars with our new service” Verizon is definitely capable of this and many other atrocities that would frighten school children across the world if I were to speculate here in print. I'll spare the world the horror and we'll just agree that cell service could be much improved across the board. We need a third party to step in, we need an equalizer to take the power out of the hands of the big 4 here in the US. Wilson Electronics might just be the hero that we need.
I wouldn't trust a person who wasn't at least a bit skeptical about spending a couple of hundred dollars on a cell phone signal booster. Let's get a little backstory to begin. The first thing that helped to bring my attention to Wilson is that Verizon and others were trying to rally the government to ban products like theirs. It's clear that when the bad guy says that something is bad it's most likely bad for them. The cell providers were working furiously for years through the diversions and double speak of lawyers and lobbyists to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The baby being real solutions like Wilson's and the bathwater being the congested sea of snake oil created by years of AS SEEN ON TV cell booster sticker nonsense.
Let's say that you owned an emerging healthy chain restaurant in New York City. You're highly trained and you make great healthy food and business is growing. One day, an employee at a Jack in the Box in Idaho spills floor cleaner in the special sauce and everyone gets sick. Back in New York, there is a big company that sells junky microwave dinners to supermarkets and business is being hurt by how tasty and healthy your food is. The company decides to lobby the government to have all restaurants in the country shut down including your chain in New York. All of this because of an untrained idiot in Idaho (no offense Idaho.) On the surface it might seem like the frozen dinner company is genuinely concerned about the well being of the people, but a little reasonable thought and you can see that it's all a ploy to get rid of the healthy chain that's threatening business with a great product that is a better choice than their own frozen heart attacks. That's basically the idea here, and it's obviously a ridiculous case. Verizon and others didn't win, but they successfully delayed and cast doubt over products like this unfortunately. My job as a journalist is to tell you the truth without exception. Signal boosters like Wilson's aren't perfect, but if you have at least some reception anywhere in the country, Wilson will show you at least some improvement in signal.
To dramatically sum this up, Verizon and the other major carriers are selling a disease that they don't want cured, and Wilson Electronics wants to sell you the medicine.
I mentioned briefly above that the system is simple, but not necessarily easy. It's basically only three pieces; an outdoor and indoor antenna, and a desktop receiver. All the required installation wires and hardware are included in the package. You're given the instructions for three separate scenarios to install the main outdoor antenna. The first, which is described as the best, is outside on or near your roof mounted to a pole. The outdoor antenna comes with a cradle and it is weatherized and sealed for prolonged outdoor use. Any weather damage is covered for a year after purchase to ease any doubts. This is the preferred option as I stated, and I'm sure it would be the only option if it wasn't a very difficult task for many people. I personally live in a multistory building that doesn't allow roof access. The next best option is an outdoor wall mounted installation. You're given the hardware to drill into your home's outer walls where you'll then mount the outdoor antenna facing the nearest cell phone tower. Again, in a multistory building, this isn't a very practical option. That leaves us with the last option that is the simplest but also the least effective, indoor suction cup mounting to a window.
Once you decide which install you're capable of, the only challenge left is running coaxial cable. If the name doesn't ring a bell, coaxial cable is the thicker white wire that your cable man installs. The unit comes with two lengths of RG6 cables, one 20' and one 30' for a total of 50' of possible separation. Also included is an optional adapter to attach the two lengths together if need be. You need a minimum of 20' separation between the outdoor and indoor antennas which can get tricky depending on your home's layout. The best layout that I could find meant that I mounted the antenna on my living room window and dropped the cable down to the base of the floor as the cable man might. I then followed the corners of the room, through a hallway, into my office where there was about 25' separation all together. I then connected the indoor antenna to the other side of the coaxial cable. It's designed to lay flat with 4 rubber skid proof buttons on the bottom. You then just need to connect the desktop receiver which will need to face away from the antenna for optimal functionality. The system works best in a smaller area such an office or bedroom. After connecting all of the components, plug in the included AC adapter to power the device and then you have the option to further tune the device to work just right for you.
A very welcomed addition to this system is a two light on-board notification system that helps you to get the best signal. The lights with show in three colors; red, orange, and green. Red means you aren't configured correctly and it turns the device off altogether to not interfere with any existing signal. Orange means you're getting closer and Green as you've guessed, means you're in tune. Two dials under each light allow you to adjust if you can no longer move the actual components of the system. The further down you turn the dials, the less signal improvement you'll see though. After every adjustment to the dial you'll need to wait at least 5 seconds for the signal to reset. Though the process as I've laid it out might seem involved, remember that it is only a one time setup. You'll never need to touch the pieces of the system after you install (in fact, you won't want to touch them because you might mess with the perfect signal that you worked so hard to get in the first place)
If you'd like to see the full PDF of the included installation instructions, click here.
Here is a site that can help you to find the location of local cell towers.
I tried to set the system up in a few different sections of my own home that are known to get the best reception, though the best is still normally only 2 bars at best. While I found technical success, I didn't find the dramatic increase that many happy customers have reported across the internet. I live in a notoriously difficult cell phone reception area so I don't blame the device. In the end I was able to improve from two bars to three bars. Specifically, the way a cell phone's reception is measured is through dBm. I'm not smart enough to technically understand this beyond knowing that he measurement is taken in negative numbers so a lower number is a better number. I improved from -107dbm to -96dbm which is a ten times increase in signal according to Wilson. I haven't dropped a call since and while it wasn't a frequent occurrence really, I did drop calls before. I have noticed a clear improvement in call volume actually which is very welcome. I'd spent many a phone call in the past with a finger angrily jammed into my ear trying to focus on a low call volume. Nevermore.
Thank you again to Wilson Electronics for supplying their product for review.
What's in the box: outdoor and indoor antenna, outdoor cradle, coaxial cable, ac adapter, install instructions, all mounting hardware
Is it worth buying: Many report a dramatic increase when using the product but the most important thing to remember is that this device isn't magic. It won't make something from nothing but if you have a weak signal it should give you a very usable and constant signal at the least. At best, people have reported that calls are so clear and loud that they need to actually turn the in-call volume down. While that wasn't my own experience, hundreds of accounts online plus my own give me full confidence in recommending the product. BUY WITH CONFIDENCE.
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I do definitely agree with you I use them on all my vehicles and motorcycle. ..and there is only one thing to say.....it will rock your network in many places that are miles and miles from network
SGH-S959G