Database Develop

Phone Band Settings

Is there any way to configure the UMTS Band settings on the Trinity / D810? I ask as the ROM provides the following options:
Network Type:
Auto
GSM
WCDMA
GSM/UMTS Band:
Auto
GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(2100)
GSM(1900+850)+UMTS(1900+850)
UMTS(2100+800)
Now ... for the HSDPA Network in Australia for Telstra (Next G), I need the phone to work on the UMTS(850) Band. However, by selecting the option above where the only UMTS(850) is available means that the alternate 3G Band (not HSDPA) of UMTS(2100) is not available, and the GSM Bands in the same selection are not valid for the Australian market.
Couple of queries, and I hope there are ways of configuring the device to achieve this (without getting a new ROM to support it):
When a Band selection is made, what is the order which the device uses the connections? ... i.e. if the selection was GSM(1900+850)+UMTS(1900+850), will it look for UMTS or GSM first? If UMTS, which band - 1900 or 850?
When Auto is selected, I am guessing it uses each option in the list until it finds a valid network? This would mean that for Australia, if left on Auto, you would never select HSDPA for Telstra as it would find the 3G UMTS(2100) network first (non-HSDPA).
My assumptions are that if left on Auto, it looks based on list order (which is the network order in the registry). So, for Australia, I need a setting like the following:
GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(850+2100)
Is it possible to create this Band Selection without a new ROM?

AJB said:
Is there any way to configure the UMTS Band settings on the Trinity / D810? I ask as the ROM provides the following options:
Network Type:
Auto
GSM
WCDMA
GSM/UMTS Band:
Auto
GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(2100)
GSM(1900+850)+UMTS(1900+850)
UMTS(2100+800)
Now ... for the HSDPA Network in Australia for Telstra (Next G), I need the phone to work on the UMTS(850) Band. However, by selecting the option above where the only UMTS(850) is available means that the alternate 3G Band (not HSDPA) of UMTS(2100) is not available, and the GSM Bands in the same selection are not valid for the Australian market.
Couple of queries, and I hope there are ways of configuring the device to achieve this (without getting a new ROM to support it):
When a Band selection is made, what is the order which the device uses the connections? ... i.e. if the selection was GSM(1900+850)+UMTS(1900+850), will it look for UMTS or GSM first? If UMTS, which band - 1900 or 850?
When Auto is selected, I am guessing it uses each option in the list until it finds a valid network? This would mean that for Australia, if left on Auto, you would never select HSDPA for Telstra as it would find the 3G UMTS(2100) network first (non-HSDPA).
My assumptions are that if left on Auto, it looks based on list order (which is the network order in the registry). So, for Australia, I need a setting like the following:
GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(850+2100)
Is it possible to create this Band Selection without a new ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The new Dopod ROM has the same band selections as yours does. I tried changing the selections to manual with bad results. I just leave it on auto now.

Matterhorn said:
The new Dopod ROM has the same band selections as yours does. I tried changing the selections to manual with bad results. I just leave it on auto now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I could do that to, but it would mean I don't get HSDPA. I have verified this. The only way to get HSDPA is to set the Band selection to the one with UMTS(850) in it ... this is not ideal, and that's why I posed the question to this forum.

No one??
I am guessing that no one has ever come across this, or needed to do it?

Registry Patch
This Registry patch works for the Hermes. It might work on the Trinity.
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\OEM\PhoneSetting\BandType]
"ItemCount"=dword:00000006
"ItemName1"="Auto"
"ItemName2"="GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(2100)"
"ItemName3"="GSM(1900+850)+UMTS(1900+850)"
"ItemName4"="UMTS(2100+800)"
"ItemName5"="GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(2100+850)"
"ItemName6"="GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(850)"
"ItemValue1"=dword:00000000
"ItemValue2"=dword:00000001
"ItemValue3"=dword:00000002
"ItemValue4"=dword:00000003
"ItemValue5"=dword:00000004
"ItemValue6"=dword:00000005
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\OEM\UMTS\BandSelection]
"Band"=dword:00000005
You really just need to add ItemName5 and 6, and ItemValue5 and 6, and change the ItemCount from 4 to 6 (as you added two options) using your favorite Registry Editor.
Do a soft reboot of the phone. Now you can select the NextG option GSM(900+1800)+UMTS(850)

3G connection
I drive around the Perth Metro area a lot for work and am finding that if left on Auto the connection is lost quite often mid call. How have you found the 810's management of the bands? And the auto fallback? Is there a way to set the fallback threshold so it drops back if under 2 bar signal strength? At the moment it sits on 1 bar strength and drops out mid call.

No band tab: will Tilt find 900/1800?

Folks,
My Tilt has no band tab in phone settings and as posted elsewhere the standard KaiserTweak settings don't make it appear.
I'm using the Tilt in the USA ans so it's on 1900.
Without the band tab, is the setting "auto"? If I take the phone to somewhere else in the world that uses 900/1800 will the Tilt find a signal? Or do I really need to find a way to get that band tab to appear so I can get the USA Tilt to find a 900/1800 signal in Europe or Asia?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=370854

By default it is in auto mode, and will find European bands. It doesn't hurt to enable the band page though...
-Jay

3G in the USA

Has any been able to get 3G to work in the USA yet?
thank you,
jdm

I would say that it is imminent that the US version of the S730 will be released soon. AT&T or T-Mobile may pick it up (T-Mobile's 3G network in NYC just went live, but there are no phones). If so, I would suspect that some of these crafty folks (like Alcaline) would be able to extract the radio ROM, and make it available for the S730 that we all have (the european version).
But, here's the most important part... It all depends on whether or not the European version of the S730 has the radio chipsets that will support 3G on the frequencies that are 3G in the US. There is no known answer "available" to this, so it can only be discovered by testing.

The current S730 uses the 2100 band for 3G speeds and ATT is deploying 3g on 1900 and 850 I believe and they sell a decent ammount of 3g phones. T-Mobile is working on setting one up on the 1700/2100 band but I dont care for T-Mobile.
I have watched my phone at times flip into 3G mode for a few minutes then revert back to Edge, its trying but cant work properly without the right frequencies.

Check out the chipset datasheet. Bottom of page three explains the specific radio chipset combos and their support for different freqs.
I suppose, to save on manufacturing costs, they could have used the single chipset that supports 3G on all freqs (RTR 6285), but I believe this is unlikely due to the difference in model number that was submitted to the FCC (European version: WING220, US version: WING200).
Who knows though.

3G in US
Hermes models had different model #'s HERM100, HERM200 and had the same radios, in some cases minor difference such as case style, i.e removal of video calling camera etc. With any luck we have the RFR6500 + RTR6275 Combo, or as you mentioned the RTR6285 and just not a radio rom that allows 1900+850 3G. I was looking on the FCC site and they have some interesting screen shots, one of which shows one(s730) with what appears to be the front camera covered up and another which shows a radio rom(R 0.27.03.05B), one that, to do the tests would likely need to support 1900+850. Check Page 250 / 11 in the PDF. However, also in the test is the lack of any mention of 2100 Mhz test, which would suggest that either the US 3G Radio won't support 2100Mhz or that it indeed has different hardware that won't support 2100Mhz. At any rate it would be interesting to know if anyone has tried to flash one of the pre-prod roms for the wing 200 onto the wing220 and see if they are able to connect up to 1900+850 3G.
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=890469&native_or_pdf=pdf
I suppose only time will tell.

Wow... nice investigative work. Very interesting. I'll start hunting around for the ROM.
[edit]
Searched google and, my favorite, napalm with no luck. I wonder if we can lure an FCC testing engineer into the XDA-dev realm. muahahaha

I was searching some of the other posts, and it appears that most of the pre-prod radio rom testing had been focused on GPS functionality. Has anyone been able to throw on any of the pre-prod radios with an ATT SIM and tested to see if it can connect to WCDMA -> US Band (1900+850) ??

I have no possibility to check the 3G in the USA from my location in Norway.
But just to get this clear, because I have changed my Radio more often then most people change their underweare.
Is everybody able to select WCDMA and then US Band in the settings?
I dont know if this is selectable on all devices or if this is made available after my radio flahings.

I believe all S730's have the following options available.
Network Type:
Auto
GSM
WCDMA
Band Type:
Auto
US Band
Euro Band
Japan Band
For it to actually be able to operate on all of these frequencies I believe it would need to use the the RTR6285 chipset as the other 2 combos would not support all of the different frequencies combinations.
US Band -> GSM 850+1900 / UMTS 850+1900 (ATT)
Euro Band -> GSM 900+1800 / UMTS 2100
Japan Band -> UMTS 2100+800 (not positive on this one)
If I change band to from Auto -> WCDMA I do not get an error but no 3G Icon and all calls fail. If I then go and change to US Band while having WCDMA selected it indicates that it cannot change to that GSM/UMTS Band. Also interesting, If I stay on WCDMA and select Euro Band, no error, but of course all calls fail. I then tried to change to Japan Band, no error and no phone calls. Finally I am still on WCDMA and I switch to US Band and I get the error that indicates I cannot change to that band. So, I would be interested to know Alcaline if you see the same behavior on some of the other radios you have been trying to see they allow the switch to WCDMA / US Band combo.
Thanks

Can anyone else confirm this behavior on any of the other Radios out there?

Alcaline said:
I have no possibility to check the 3G in the USA from my location in Norway.
But just to get this clear, because I have changed my Radio more often then most people change their underweare.
Is everybody able to select WCDMA and then US Band in the settings?
I dont know if this is selectable on all devices or if this is made available after my radio flahings.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the ability to tell my phone I am in the states, but it does nothing (default settings though)

Was the US version (WING200) of this phone ever released? Or has anyone gotten the EU version to work on any US 3G networks? Wondering about T-Mobile...

USA 3g

I understand that currently the Diamond does not support 3g data in the USA. There are rumors that the Diamond will eventually release in the US on the GSM network sometime after the CDMA release. Seeing as HTC already proved that sometimes they can enable frequencies with just a radio rom update, do you think the current Diamond will someday be able to support 3g in the USA?
I sold my Tilt a few weeks ago and got myself an Iphone. I am starting to hate the Iphone and really would like to go back to a WM device. But the Tilt is not an option and the only phone that looks worth the jump is the Diamond. But I do not want to buy a phone that will never be able to support 3g. Edge is just too slow, and with AT&T you pay the same data rate for an Edge or a 3G phone.
I have done plenty of searches and can't seem to find any conclusive answers. Maybe there isn't one.
Thanks for any suggestions you may have. Please don't turn this into an iphone bashing thread. The iphone has many good qualities, it just does not suit my needs as I thought it would.
Jeff

no you must wait for the local diamond release. they are hardware specific.

Well that just sucks. I guess I will have no choice but to wait for the Diamond or the Xperia to invade our borders.

its does suck, i have a Diamond from Asia and i cant use the 850Mhz 3G Telstra network.... lucky for the 3Telstra joint venture network!

I thought that was one of the benefits of the new 1.93 ROM, it utilizes 850Mhz, no?
Mark

thats only GMS band and is also only sim card specific. i have the 1.93 rom and a telstra next g sim and i only get UMTS (900-2100) + GSM (900+1800) bands...

frozenwaffles said:
no you must wait for the local diamond release. they are hardware specific.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats just a bummer. Guess it's edge for me, unless something miraculously happens

Can anyone explain exactly what it will take for HSDPA in the US?
Hi -
Similar to the original poster, I have been watching with anticipation the development of the Diamond and the XDA cookers' work on unlocking its capabilites. I too am confused, with many conflicting posts about the ability to do HSPDA in the US. Can anyone explain exactly what it will take? Based on my understanding:
1.) Ability to transmit and recieve on the radio frequency used by the telco / phone company for UMTS service (Universal Mobile Telecommunications System). For AT&T, I thought this frequency was 850 mhz. Based on peoples' reports and some testing done, it seems like the Diamond can be unlocked through a ROM flash to broadcast and recieve on 850 mhz. So far, so good.
2.) Ability to use the UMTS service
My reading of Wikipedia seems to say that UMTS is a "technology" -
This is different from a "standard" like GSM,which is an integrated system of hardware (radio transmitters and towers), an "air interface" (a set of protocols to handle packet transfers, analogous to TCP/IP on the Internet, only using radio waves rather than wires), an "infrastructure" (base station sub-system and GPRS (packet) subsystem - towers and the computers and routers that connect them) and connection software (validating users, tracking usage, billing, transmission control codecs, etc.). UMTS is a collection of transmission control codecs and user identification codecs operating within a GSM network. So, UMTS is a phrase that describes improvements to the old, 2G GSM protocols. But it is still GSM.
AT&T in the US is using WCDMA as the "air interface" over which it is running its UMTS service. It is using the 850 mhz frequency. One key difference between GSM and UMTS is that UMTS uses a "Universal Subscriber Identification Modue" (USIM) rather than a plain old Subscriber Identificaton modue (SIM). If AT&T's UMTS service requires a USIM, then having only a SIM will prevent you from accessing the UMTS service - you will only be able to access the data service offered by the GSM, which is EDGE in the US, not WCDMA (i.e., only 2G). This is regardless of hardware. If this is the case, then it's a bummer.
HOWEVER....the UMTS service CAN use SIM cards as well, so AT&T may have theirs configured to use SIM cards as well. I currently have the HTC Trinity with what I think is a SIM card - I was forced to "upgrade" the SIM card when Cingular "integrated" with AT&T, so my card is branded Cingular, but has the snazzy 3G fireball on it. So maybe it's actually a USIM? My Trinity does have the "H" icon show up, and I can get 300kbps or so tethering to my laptop (but not above that - grrrr...) so maybe I'm getting UMTS service on that device? If so, then the SIM vs USIM should not be an issue if I got a Diamond.
3.) Ability to use the HSPDA protocol
As far as I can tell, HSPDA is pure protocol - just like TCP/IP. It achieves faster speeds by using fast packet scheduling and something called adaptive modualtion and coding. It is part of the UMTS standards, so it's actually part fo the overall UMTS system, but not everyone uses it. If your phone and your carrier can use this protocol, you can get HSPDA.
Based on the above, it seems reasonable that the Diamond is capable of transmitting at HSPDA speeds in the US on AT&T's network. Has anyone been able to actually do this? If not, could those much more informed than me explain the obstacle? Is it a setting on AT&T's side? A setting on the Diamond? Is the radio hardware for UMTS somehow different? Does the Diamond lack WCDMA capability due to lack of software?
I understand that some people have tried selecting the band on their ROM-flashed phone to get 3G on AT&T with no success, but that doesn't mean it can't be done. I'm trying to understand the eaxt nature of the obstacle.
Thanks!!!
Mike

I can't speak for all the technical hardware specs possibilities. But here's the latest status as i understand it:
1. There are at least 2 GSM-based Diamond versions available now: DIAM100 and DIAM130. The DIAM100 is the original one that went on sale. The DIAM130 seems to be the new Telstra Diamond that does support 850 3G.
2. There are lots of radio ROMs out available now. Some unlock 850 GSM for the DIAM100, which was previously thought impossible due to lacking of an 850 radio antenna. But that was a lie obviously. No Radio ROMs are currently avail that have successfully unlocked 850 3G. And since the DIAM130 is the only one working on 850 3G (using a radio ROM that is available for the DIAM100 even), the prevailing thought is it is actually a HW limitation on the DIAM100. I.e. it cannot do 850 3G no matter the radio ROM. (Note that OS ROMs have no effect on the radios ability. However, they might unlock the availability of the frequency selection in the Phone Settings window on WM. Note also that simply the existence of a selection in that window does NOT mean it physically can do that frequency.
3. No radio ROM thus far has made any iteration of the Diamond capable of doing 1700 anything, which is what TMo US would need for its 3G network. So, if a TMo US one is to become available, it would be yet another HW version.
#2 and #3 are still just theory, but pretty solid ones at this point.
So, my question is re: the DIAM130. What other 3G bands is it capable of. Only 850? Is it still quad-band GSM capable? If its flashed with other Radio ROMs, does it still maintain the same capabilities? I'd consider getting one if possible and using it here on AT&T if it is (or can be) quad band GSM and 850 3G. Esp if it still had 2100 3G, or even if it could be flashed when necessary to support 2100 3G when I travel. The lengths I've considered going to for this.
In any case, I lose more and more interest in this product each day. I'm inching closer to a hopeful AT&T Omnia, which too has drama surrounding it. And since I just got my g/f an iPhone 3G, I hate to admit, I'm heavily considering one as well now. What I might lose in flexibility, I think I would gain in having a solid device, that works worldwide 3G, and would keep everything I want in sync.
Sad really. I've been a WM-trooper for a decade now. 80% my music is in WMA format. For the stupidity of these dramas, WM may very well lose a devotee. (And as you can see from my willingness to import the phone and flash it whenever necessary, I'm not just giving up, I'm trying my best. but when the companies make it this hard, you gotta question if its worth it.)

Thanks Jomo!!!
Sounds like we're in the same boat. I won't get an iPone because part of my reason for having the phone is being able to tether to my laptop in an emergency. If the Diamond can't do it, I'll stick with my Trinity, which can. Really, I just want the better form factor...
One thing that has me confused is the whole radio thing. I'm no electrical engineer, but it seems like there are two components to the "radio" of the cellphone.
1.) The hardware - specific physical characteristics like the length of the antenna will determine the frequency you can use. I remember the old days of citizens band radios (that's CBs to those good buddies who saw Convoy <grin>) where you had to change physical crystals to get the right frequencies. Yes, apparently I'm old (geez, when did THAT happen???). I can also see the clock cycle of the radio's DSP determining how quickly the radio can handle packets.
2.) The software - herein lies all the nitty gritty details about protocols and the like - you need to have radio software that uses all of the hardware - like "turning on" the 850 band.
I guess the real questions for you gurus out there are
a.) how much of the UMTS protocol is programmed into the chip versus based on software (more software-based would support there being a software solution)? The chip used in the Diamonds is the Qualcomm 7201 chipset (at least the GSM ones do) which specifically lists UMTS as a capability, so it seems like the software just isn't using it right.
b.) do you need hardware components for each frequency of UMTS?
It just seems that going from GSM to UMTS is a matter of using different software, although you would have to have hardware capable of UMTS speeds. Ifthis is the case, then a hardware solution is possible. If it requires sepcial software to add into the existing software, we may be out of luck until one is created with the right stuff.
Ugh. My head hurts. Learning cellular radio through internet research is not easy. I suppose it would be easier if I were smarter <grin>
Mike

This may be old news, and still doesn't answer the querstion whether the current batch of Diamonds can be software / ROM updated to do US 3G, but at least there is a device that can - the product name DIAM110 (as opposed to the DIAM100 and DIAM130) has been submitted to the FCC a while back and definitely does do 850 UMTS.
http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=5028
Good luck!
Mike

Excellent thread!
Very informative - thanks for doing the research and putting it all in one place! I too am somewhat confused as to the availability of 3G data access on AT&T - this thread has helped me understand some of the technologies involved and raised some interesting questions.

3.5G is backwards compatible with 3G
I just read in the wikipedia that 3.5g is backwards compatible with 3G tecnology, so i cant find the point in which Diamonds just CANT use regular 850 3G. Perhaps is just a little tweaking over the HW. But I believe it will be done sooner or later

DIAM100 with RTR6285?
Thanks for the informative post. I've been looking for the answer to this question long before I got my diamond. Here's what I've found so far. Hope it helps.
According to this page and this page, Diamond uses Qualcomm RTR6285 as its RF Transceiver. And based on the press release from Qualcomm,
The RTR6285 transceiver supports the following bands:
* North American triple-band UMTS (bands 2, 4, 5)
* Japanese triple-band UMTS (bands 1, 6, 9)
* European, Chinese and rest-of-world triple-band UMTS (bands 1, 3, 8)
* Global quadruple-band GSM and EDGE (800/900/1800/1900 MHz)
Note that "North American triple-band UMTS (bands 2, 4, 5)" means it supports 1900MHz, 1700MHz, and 850MHz
Here's the wiki page that lists the UMTS frequency bands
Many users on this forum mentioned that Diamond lacks 850MHz 3G support due to the hardware limitation, but that contradicts the RTR6285 press release. Can somebody please confirm that DIAM100 uses RTR6285?
Thanks,
Bruce

WOW!!! bruce0126 you just make my day!!!

Keep the dream alive people!

So if its the same Hardware then what is keeping the phone from working on UMTS 850 band?
The ROM is activated for the North American frequencies so its not a ROM issue.
Thats ODDDDDDD

could it be lack of antenna for those specific bands?

we need a techwiz!!
Ive seen the specs also and the radio hardware is supposed to recieve at 850mhz, perhaps the transmited has been " Programmed" in factory to forbid the use of this particular band. Of course im only guessing.
Any one has a good new about american 3G in our DIAM100 ??

Mods Can You Make This Thread Sticky?
I wnder wy the Mods havent dne this thread as sticky ;O
Sticky it please!

For ROM surfers...

Hey everyone, sorry if this is a repeat but I tried searching first with no luck.
For the people who swap/update ROMs regularly, is there a quick way you have of backing up and restoring settings/files/contacts/SMS etc. back onto the device after flashing?
If you know of forum posts, tips, programs that are helpful for this, thanks very much.
P.S. I know that the Kaiser is UMTS tri-band, but why do my band settings show support for combinations of UMTS 2100+800, 1900+850 and 2100? (Is this a software quirk?)

sprite backup, and pim backup

do a search for uc capable, basically if a rom is uc capable you can set it up to auto install cabs, settings, reg tweaks etc.

Photopuppet said:
P.S. I know that the Kaiser is UMTS tri-band, but why do my band settings show support for combinations of UMTS 2100+800, 1900+850 and 2100?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I've found, 800MHz would be used for UMTS in Japan. Frequency allocatin for UMTS was a bit of a mess as with some countries not following the international directives some had to improvise a bit and relocate differently. So there's a number of conbinations of 800, 850, 1900, 2100MHz around.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands

Thanks for the info, guys. I've tried Sprite Backup which seems to be an excellent program so far!

I also use Sprite, however i heard SPB Backup was a lot better and will be trying it out this weekend Also, to install programs, use Sashimi; works wonders.