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<RANT>
HOW COULD HE SERIOUSLY SAY THE SENTENCE WAS TOO HARSH? HE GOT THE MINIMUM FOR THAT SENTENCE. AND DUDE CONSPIRED TO OUT A CIA AGENT. PUT THE LADY AND HER FAMILY IN HARMS WAY AND THEN LIED TO THE GRAND JURY, JUDGE, PROSECUTORS, AND FBI ABOUT IT.
IF THIS WAS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY HE WOULD BE PUT IN FRONT OF A FIRING SQUAD FOR TREASON.
</END RANT>
Dang Yankee fans... they get all upset when their team sucks.
Madcap180 said:
Dang Yankee fans... they get all upset when their team sucks.
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I wear my yankee emblem proudly.
well if libby was really just the fallguy for rovoe or even cheney
maybe they had too for him to keep his trap shut
Impeach Dubya
Oh don't even get me started talking about our Village Idiot. I keep telling myself that in 2008 we will all wake up from a very bad dream!! After his daddy's joke of a Presidency, I KNEW not to vote for Dubya...so don't blame me...I laugh daily at all the Bush-isms, and cry because of how ridiculous the US must look right now to other countries. To all those folks NOT from the US...trust me when I say, the US doesn't want this jackass (or at least the citizens who aren't multi-gazillionaires)...and now THIS????? They went after Bill for booty calls, why in Hell's name aren't we doing something about our slimebag Prez= IMPEACHING his @ss???
UGGG...one more year...one more year...one more year (it seems to be my new mantra).
saw some covering of him going to albania
it was mentioned that he was more popular there then
in us at the moment
but then recall blair being more popular in us then in uk so maybe thats normal enough
National Jester...
Hmm...was he talking about the speech-bungling-ever-so-clumsy Bush or immaculate-speaking (even-though-lying-through-his-teeth) Blair ?
I would presume the ultimate crown of village idiot goes to Bush...and many do agree.
Now to the issue at hand - Scooter Libby did as he was told - period !
I am sure we are all smart enough to see that, and why should he go to jail for the ever scheming Cheney? Not that I am a fan of www.counterpunch.org (they seem a bunch of disgruntled ex-CIA, ex-FBI ex-XYZ), but they do give you a balanced view to the intrigues of American polics. Those guys were right on the money, even before the Bush intervention was public.
Just do as Mike said...come back home wayward 'poodle'....err more like 'Rottweiler'
lol
AD10 said:
Hmm...was he talking about the speech-bungling-ever-so-clumsy Bush or immaculate-speaking (even-though-lying-through-his-teeth) Blair ?
I would presume the ultimate crown of village idiot goes to Bush...and many do agree.
Now to the issue at hand - Scooter Libby did as he was told - period !
I am sure we are all smart enough to see that, and why should he go to jail for the ever scheming Cheney? Not that I am a fan of www.counterpunch.org (they seem a bunch of disgruntled ex-CIA, ex-FBI ex-XYZ), but they do give you a balanced view to the intrigues of American polics. Those guys were right on the money, even before the Bush intervention was public.
Just do as Mike said...come back home wayward 'poodle'....err more like 'Rottweiler'
lol
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he did what he was told involving the leak of valerie plame.
now the reason he got convicted because he got caught in lies. the whole point of this thing was for him to tell the truth. if he did, some very important people would have had to go down. like, carl rove. carl rove would have been in the hot seat and would have had to name names. and he would have named the big ****. and it would be all down hill from there.
he lied to protect his cabinet. so he should be in jail. he broke a federal law.
people who break laws, should be in jail.
btw: dont act like its just bush alone who is an idiot. if a scholar follows an idiot, then how much of a scholar can he really be? (speaking of course about tony blair)
well as i understand it near the end of the presidency they get to hand out a get out of jail free card
recall something like it with clinton but forget it the public outcry caused him to avoid doing it anyway
maybe libby was promised a pardon later on to keep his mouth shut
personaly i dont think anybody really think that it's right or fair
many people in the history have been punished even if they were just
acting under orders
free will should cause one to take ones own stand no matter what anybody tells you to....
I think we all forget at times that this is no longer a govt for the people by the people but a govt for the rich and corporations. by the rich and corporations. That's all right though cuz soon us middle of the line folks will be ran down till there is nothing left for them to take. And then who will wipe there as#@.
Back home in Boston a FBI agent was sentenced to like 20 years or something like that for helping out a mob guy named Whitey Bulger.. He got more of a sentence then Libby did.. lol
Rudegar said:
well as i understand it near the end of the presidency they get to hand out a get out of jail free card
recall something like it with clinton but forget it the public outcry caused him to avoid doing it anyway
maybe libby was promised a pardon later on to keep his mouth shut
personaly i dont think anybody really think that it's right or fair
many people in the history have been punished even if they were just
acting under orders
free will should cause one to take ones own stand no matter what anybody tells you to....
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thats exactly my point here. he had a chance to be a man, or a pawn of the establishment. and he conformed to protect the very people that put him in harms way to begin with.
this transcends party lines. lets forget for a minute that clinton, bush sr, regan, and nixon have all pardoned people. is that the excuse now, because your predecessor has pardoned people, you have to? why can't each man stand on his own record? bush has made it clear that he will not hand out pardons and sentence commutes to the guilty. why should he turn back on his word now?
this makes me feel like our justice system is a big joke. even martha stewart got a year for insider trading. lil kim got a year and a day for the same exact thing libby did... lie to the feds. my parents taught me that if i did the wrong thing i will go to jail. what example is this setting for the rest of the country and the youngsters growing up watching this?
<avoids inserting NY joke here>
who did Clinton pardon anyway? .. and .. Since Bush was re-elected, does that mean he got 2 free pardons? lol.. since one of his terms ended already..
Madcap180 said:
<avoids inserting NY joke here>
who did Clinton pardon anyway? .. and .. Since Bush was re-elected, does that mean he got 2 free pardons? lol.. since one of his terms ended already..
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010120/aponline135239_000.htm
nobody significant. the most controversial one was hillary's brother. i mean i think they should do away with the pardon thing all together. executive privilege is out of hand.
presidents can pardon how many people they want. they hand out get out of jail free cards like its candy.
Impeach Dubya
The truth is that Dubya has been a liar and cheat since day ONE. He can care less about the average American, and rather goes out of his way to line the pockets of the rich buddies who got him into office ($3.31/gallon gas??? Puleez!)...our unemployment levels are insane, are property sales are bottomed out, our economy is far from stable...there are more people living in the U.S at poverty level than there were during the great depression...seriously WTF??? Nobody wants this so-called "War on Terror" to continue, the death toll is beginning to look like Vietnam, and even the soldiers who traditionally are treated well, have been losing benefits and pay...so why serve? In 7 years Dubya has taken us from a healthy and stable economy and growth to sh*t, we are losing allies, and the rest of the world sees the U.S as a bully and/or joke. And sadly it is because of our dipsh*t figurehead and his lying cabinet, when in truth most Americans do not want any association with him...well except for Florida and Ohio (thank the lord he cannot run for a 3rd term)...and for the record, the RIAA/MPAA have prosecuted, won, and served harder punishments on pirates than Libby faced, or was released from. Even Paris Hilton had to have her few short weeks in jail...yet Libby goes free???? To say that this will be a hardship for his family still, despite his not going to jail...he willingly lied and saved the collective asses of the Presidency and Cabinet...if this isn't a reason to call for impeachment I don't know what is!!! Let's compare...a blowjob or swindling and cheating America, lying about the war, commuting sentence on what should be treason...or a blowjob...WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE??? I say let the Prez get booty calls...kept the economy stable and healthy, kept us out of a war, created jobs...a happy Prez is an ok Prez (have yet to see a good Prez)...JFK got tons of booty calls and is remembered as a fantastic Prez...think about it.
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." Dubya, August 2004, Washington, DC
end rant.
told you not to get me started talking about the Idiot.
akashastrega said:
The truth is that Dubya has been a liar and cheat since day ONE. He can care less about the average American, and rather goes out of his way to line the pockets of the rich buddies who got him into office ($3.31/gallon gas??? Puleez!)...our unemployment levels are insane, are property sales are bottomed out, our economy is far from stable...there are more people living in the U.S at poverty level than there were during the great depression...seriously WTF??? Nobody wants this so-called "War on Terror" to continue, the death toll is beginning to look like Vietnam, and even the soldiers who traditionally are treated well, have been losing benefits and pay...so why serve? In 7 years Dubya has taken us from a healthy and stable economy and growth to sh*t, we are losing allies, and the rest of the world sees the U.S as a bully and/or joke. And sadly it is because of our dipsh*t figurehead and his lying cabinet, when in truth most Americans do not want any association with him...well except for Florida and Ohio (thank the lord he cannot run for a 3rd term)...and for the record, the RIAA/MPAA have prosecuted, won, and served harder punishments on pirates than Libby faced, or was released from. Even Paris Hilton had to have her few short weeks in jail...yet Libby goes free???? To say that this will be a hardship for his family still, despite his not going to jail...he willingly lied and saved the collective asses of the Presidency and Cabinet...if this isn't a reason to call for impeachment I don't know what is!!! Let's compare...a blowjob or swindling and cheating America, lying about the war, commuting sentence on what should be treason...or a blowjob...WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE??? I say let the Prez get booty calls...kept the economy stable and healthy, kept us out of a war, created jobs...a happy Prez is an ok Prez (have yet to see a good Prez)...JFK got tons of booty calls and is remembered as a fantastic Prez...think about it.
end rant.
told you not to get me started talking about the Idiot.
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*claps*
that was perfect. the only thing ill add is that... there is nothing wrong with a "war on terror". but we cannot, or should not terrorize people to stop terror. all its doing is helping recruit more terrorists. i have family in the armed forces. so i feel sorrow for the troops who have died because of this war. but on a human level i also feel for the 30,000+ civilians (women and children, and innocent men) that died in iraq. how can we force a democracy on a country that ever asked for it in the first place. the last country that tried force something on us, we kicked their ass (england, lol). why can't the same logic go into our foreign policy?
the sentence communication that the president granted single handedly shot down any moral high ground this presidency had left. they are total users and abusers of the system. and the dems are no better for letting it happen.
republicans are blind followers, and dems are spineless bureaucrats with all talk.
i think im going to change my party affiliation to indepenant
wonder if senat could stop those pardons if they wanted to?
was ROFL when bush used the senat's hollyday to get Bolton the un ambassador elected by himself because the senat dident want to vote for him
thats pretty wacked democracy
I come from a military family. My mom, dad and step dad served, my grandpa served, 2 uncles served, my husband served...I have a strong dose of patriotism running through my veins. That said, it is appalling what the troops and their families have had to endure under the Dubya Admin. An article 36 was filed against a soldier in Hawaii for refusing to go to Iraq and (as he stated it) be forced to murder innocents in the name of oil. If found guilty, his military career will end, he will do time, and will forever have problems getting a good-paying job, as the article 36 and dishonorable discharge will forever follow him. He will lose any pension and VA benefits. All for standing up for his beliefs. Libby?? He gets first a slap on the wrist, follow by a presidential release to serve time. WTF????? WTF????? WTF?????
I will always support the soldiers. They and their families make so many sacrifices for crappy pay, and possibly death....but I do not and will not support Dubya and his lies. His "war on terror", or rather fight to control oil producing countries. Saddam is dead. Where is Osama, and why hasn't he been brought in? It is no longer a terrorist hunt, it is an issue of Dubya insuring his oil buddies interests, rather than the interests of U.S.
Libby was (I'm sure) aware of this, and probably knew of items proving this...he "took one for the team" so to speak, and for doing so, Bush covered his @ss. Just one more thing I wish to use as a nail in the coffin of Dubya's lying, cheating presidency.
I am kind of anti military .. well, not anti military, I respect the guys who were DRAFTED into the army more than the ones who CHOSE to go and then WHINE about it later.... I dunno.. I can't stand the way George Bush always says 'This war is about protecting the way of life in America' ?? I dont get it, what does Iraq have to do with how WE live? .. we spend 100's of billions of dollars on rebuilding a country, but somewhere in the ghetto's of LA and New York some homeless family can't even get a bite to eat..
FIX HOME FIRST.. hypoctite.
Madcap180 said:
I am kind of anti military .. well, not anti military, I respect the guys who were DRAFTED into the army more than the ones who CHOSE to go and then WHINE about it later.... I dunno.. I can't stand the way George Bush always says 'This war is about protecting the way of life in America' ?? I dont get it, what does Iraq have to do with how WE live? .. we spend 100's of billions of dollars on rebuilding a country, but somewhere in the ghetto's of LA and New York some homeless family can't even get a bite to eat..
FIX HOME FIRST.. hypoctite.
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point taken...
however, murphy says "where a man stands on an issue depends on where he sits".
bush, nor his cabinet can relate to a homeless family in la or new york. to a lot of people, they have the mind set of "why can't they just get a job". they dont understand the social ills in the innercity or how to change them. most of the guys who make the laws were born with a silver spoon, most of the guys who look up to them are dirt poor.
p.s. thats whats really wrong with the republican party. their base is so blind that they dont even realize that their representatives dont even represent them. i always find it amazing when i have a discussion with a middle class white person that they are republican and dont even know why. their party does absolutely nothing for them.
dont blame the troops though. they take advantage of what options are available to them. the armed forces recruit in the inner cities and the poor rural areas because they know those people hardly other options. it is only after they get out of the military that they understand what was really going on all along. while in the military i think they feel they have an obligation to not question their leaders. i guess they see that as insubordination. however, leaders are human too. and they are also american.
i'll end by saying this. i can't stand when another american questions my patriotism because i am against this war. i was against this war from the start. when it was UNCOOL to speak out against the war. and i still am against the war. i support the troops but i do not support what they are doing in iraq.
i thank akashastrega's family for their contribution.
As I stumbled upon the brotherhood of muslims in this thread, I got a little jealous of the unity they and other religious groups sometimes possess.
Since we atheists aren't a homogeneous group that have any words to follow, except maybe science and the neverending falsification-process of it, I would like to greet all those out there that only believe in the world as you sense it, and the physics behind it.
We don't have any books to follow, so here are 10 good old quotes for you:
1. “The civilized man has a moral obligation to be skeptical. . . . Any man who for one moment abandons or suspends the questioning spirit has for that moment betrayed humanity.” –Bergen Evens
2. The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike. -Delos B. McKown
3. Faith means not wanting to know what is true. -Friedrich Nietzsche
4. What can be asserted without proof can be dismissed without proof. -Christopher Hitchens
5. Piety is implanted in human nature; it is deemed a sure refuge. To the growing child, that which falls from his elders' lips is a lesson that abides with him all his life. Monks in their cloisters and devotees in the mosques accept their creed just as a story is handed down from him who tells it, without distinguishing between a true interpreter and a false. If one of these had found his kin among the Magians, or among the Sabians, he would have declared himself a Magian, or among the Sabians he would have become nearly or quite like them. -Abu’l‐Ala al Ma’arri 973-1057
6. The doubter is a true man of science; he doubts only himself and his interpretations, but he believes in science. -Claude Bernard
7. I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it. -Mark Twain
8. A believer states everything must have a creator but fail to say how he was created. -Anonymous
9. The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles? -John Adams 2nd president of the USA
10. But the great tragedy of Science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact - which is so constantly being enacted under the eyes of philosophers... -T.H. Huxley
Peace.
i consider "atheist" to be one who is not a believer in any of the religious movements out there. It's very possible for them to believe in a god, just not necessarily the god that anybody else subscribes to.
I fall into that category. I believe that the sun gives everything on earth life. Which it does, in one way or another.
And therefore i am cool. Yeah......
Agnostic?
I agree with Mike, partially, since in my humble and uninformed opinion the primary need for religion has always been fear of pain and death. I will disgree with Mike on the net benefit of religion, specially in the 21st century...
Here's another quote:
"I can live with doubt and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers that might be wrong." Richard Feynman
and another by a well known philosopher:
"Your're asking me who to follow. You're asking me who is right. Don't ask me. I don't know!" O. Osbourne
mikechannon said:
All of us have faith in some form or other. An atheist scientist has faith that science will produce all the answers (though there is no proof of that). In fact many scientists acknowledge that most theories (even once proven) are only true until another theory come along to show the first one wasn't quite right or did not apply in all situations.
Given virtually every civilisation that has ever existed has had some deity or other then scientifically speaking there must be a human need to have "faith". Furthermore, given nature preserves through the generations, only those things that aid survival, then faith must have a net benefit to survival rather as opposed to not having "faith".
Perhaps it is that humans, because they can think ahead, have a need to know that there is some overall purpose/reason for things. In other words that life is not just some purely accidental /random fluke of nature. Even if "faith" is a delusion therefore, it nevertheless prevents the alternative which would be a belief in the utter pointlessness of everything.
Mike
PS. This thread will only last as long as there is no discussion of specific religions. We all realise (or should do!) the sensitivities involved if we get into commenting on or arguing about peoples religious beliefs. For as long as there is respect perhaps there can be an academic chat. It may be that another Mod will close this thread as a religious debate and not appropriate even in off-topic.
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Thank you for a thoughtful response. I quite enjoyed reading it. As a follower of the scientific method, I can assure you that we will never find all the answers. Because we are so limited.
The last part (PS.->) I can somewhat agree with, but for peace sake only.
What religious person can claim rights over the religion they are part of? I find that offensive. (EDIT: in general life)
I grew up with a religion that I feel I have all the right to say and mean anything about. It's part of me, even though I don't believe in it.
I understand that there is a time and place for everything
I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.
If there are any advantages they are incidental.
Surur
surur said:
I am of the view that religion (of any stripe) is a parasite on the humankind, taking advantage of our weaknesses and exploiting our strengths. Science is the antidote.
If there are any advantages they are incidental.
Surur
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The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.
Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.
But I believe that humans are a parasite on the earth. And to be a parasite is not just a negative thing. We are what we are. All events has made us this way, and more will make us change or dissappear in time.
rhov23 said:
The development of ethics and moral values that glues the societies together (even though the morals or ethics may be absurd) can have a very positive and stable effect on the way people interact.
Security. False in a bigger sense, true for the individual.
Other than that, with a grain of salt, I agree.
But I also believe that humans are a parasite on the earth (hehe)
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Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.
Surur
surur said:
Who says morals and ethics are tied to religion. They seem to arise from simple game theory - do onto others as you would have done to you did not need Jesus to say it.
Surur
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I didn't say it was only tied to religion. Religion is made by people, and morals/ethics are therefor made by people. Religion is a way to get a social structure, control the masses, make them believe and behave.
Let's have a quote:
Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist
mikechannon said:
Well at one level I can agree. If by religion we mean that thing that is used as a reason to fight wars, or religion used by governments to control people.
However I don't agree if we mean religion as the thing that is about wanting to know the answers, particularly to the "big" questions. Or religion as the thing that gives comfort in times of stress etc.
That seems to me the biggest problem in talking about such matters. We would have to spend hours defining what bit or slant on religion we are taliking about.
I actually quite like fzzyrn's concept of believing in a God which is not necessarily the same as any other person believes in and not part of any mainstream religion. You see often I think when you hear scientists talking about the big unknowns and then hear religious leaders talking about the meaning of God it is quite easy to detect a lot of similar thinking between the two. Just for example religious people tend to talk about religion giving people generally and as individuals "a purpose". Just the other day I heard a scientist at the Hadron Collider talking about how discovery of fundamental particles would help us to see "the purpose" of life.
The quest it seems to me is the same and even the language can be the same. History actually shows that religions have lead the way in scientific research. It is only in recent times that science and religion have been seen as conflicting rather than opposite sides of the same coin.
Mike
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I agree with you, but not on the last part.
The large religions, change when they must, not when they should. And only when it comes to hard facts, like the earth rotates around the sun etc.
The fact is that religion changes only for selfpreservation, and not by logic. And what monster do we get then?
rhov23 said:
Religion is the opiate of the people. Karl Marx. And don't you DARE call me a communist
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There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.
The same is true of religion.
psionandy said:
There are legitimate uses of opiates that benefit everyone that is involved... banning them completely, because of specific types of abuses, would be a foolish move.
The same is true of religion.
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Druggie!
Just kidding. Good point, but I never said that I was for a ban. I just want to tell those that are smart enough, that everything around us is connected.
You can't run cars on prayer. Or will someone prove me wrong?
can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol
Baronic said:
can a free thinker leaning on atheism report in? lol
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Hi, welcome. You are now ready to be brainwashed. Please follow my directions closely, and send me $100.
No, really. If you don't send money you will die from old age!
Some quotes I've picked up. Sorry I have previously deleted most of the speakers/writers names-
Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.^Voltaire
But that a camel-merchant should stir up insurrection in his village; that in league with some miserable followers he persuades them that he talks with the angel Gabriel; that he boasts of having been carried to heaven, where he received in part this unintelligible book, each page of which makes common sense shudder; that, to pay homage to this book, he delivers his country to iron and flame; that he cuts the throats of fathers and kidnaps daughters; that he gives to the defeated the choice of his religion or death: this is assuredly nothing any man can excuse, at least if he was not born a Turk, or if superstition has not extinguished all natural light in him.
If God has made us in his image, we have returned him the favor
To pray to God is to flatter oneself that with words one can alter nature.
It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.
Our wise men have said that man was created in the image of God. Now here is a lovely image of the Divine Maker: a flat and black nose with little or hardly any intelligence.
God created sex. Priests created marriage.
God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
All children are born Atheists; they have no idea of God.
Nothing can be more contrary to religion and the clergy than reason and common sense.
If the ignorance of nature gave birth to Gods, the knowledge of nature is calculated to destroy them.
If we look back at the begining we shall find that ignorance and fear created the gods; that fancy, enthusiasm, or deceit adorned or disfigured them; that weakness worships them; that credulity preserves them; and that custom, respect and tyranny support them, in order to make the blindness of man serve their own interest.
Opinions have caused more ills than the plague or earthquakes on this little globe of ours.^Voltaire
They condemn what they do not understand.
The devil's greatest trick was convincing the world that God exists.
The best defense against logic is ignorance.
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned.
Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?
I find the whole business of religion profoundly interesting. But it does mystify me that otherwise intelligent people take it seriously.
All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others.
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
. . . imagine a puddle waking up one morning and thinking, 'This is an interesting world I find myself in, an interesting hole I find myself in, fits me rather neatly, doesn't it? In fact it fits me staggeringly well, must have been made to have me in it!
Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience
Reason is the antonym of Religion
Reason should be destroyed in all Christians^Martin Luther
Truth, in matters of religion, is simply the opinion that has survived^Oscar Wilde
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unitelligible propositions.
God "fashioned hell for the inquisitive"^St Augustine
Ideas must be distinct before reason can be acted upon them.^Thomas Jefferson
The only victimless crime is blasphemy
The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about
If there were no God, there would be no Atheists.
dane cook anyone....
the bible is going to get printed on you!!!!!!!!
hy
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
MAZAR SCIENTIST said:
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
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No God = No Devil
No Supernatural Defender = No Supernatural Attacker
MAZAR SCIENTIST said:
u realy donot have books to follow?
so who will u follow my friend?
people like u who may be right or may not?or people who wanted to be worshiped ? if u donot have a book to follow so u can't do anything except follow devils thoughts .. and who worship sun and earth??
who will be the defender of the earth if there is an asteroid come to it?
we should know that there is a creator to all the universe who is ALLAH and i hope i donot bother u friends with that but i know it's hard to be confinced as every one in every religon can't hear to the other and i hope u cud understand me but it's real
see that plz only look to it http://www.quran-miracle.com/
and this also http://www.quranmiracles.com/
and then tell me if islam is a fake religon as people say
thx for reading
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The Prophets, too, among us come to teach,
Are one with those who from the pulpit preach;
They pray, and slay, and pass away, and yet
Our ills are as the pebbles on the beach.
- Al-Ma'arri, أبو العلاء أحمد بن عبد الله بن سليمان التنوخي المعري
I hope you get well soon.
True story : I picked up a load of colored painted lumber in Atlanta and dropped it off in Lancaster, pa. An Amish family that made high end custom play sets for rich folks and wow the stuff the could build seemed like some from a Harry Potter movie. We started talking about technology and they didn't desire to have a cellphone or any phone for that matter. They seemed so much at peace with just the basics in life. Clearly they live in a area with malls but still appreciated life in a simple form. Now its 2011 and most folks can't go a day without cellphone use, and have a piss fit if they cell is about to die while at the mall. We stand in long lines waiting for the new it phone then rush home to make an unboxing video as others tune to watch us in awe to remove the plastic off a device. We call up the carriers begging for an update to get a new device.. log in to sites like this and complain about the device and while asking developers to stop spending time with your family and hurry up on that root so i can do a whole bunch of nothing with my phone. I'm not saying cellphones are bad, if your wife ran out to pick up pizza and got a flat you definitely want her to have one in that situation. I'm talking bout being apart of the gimmick crowd...
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geeksquadryder said:
True story : I picked up a load of colored painted lumber in Atlanta and dropped it off in Lancaster, pa. An Amish family that made high end custom play sets for rich folks and wow the stuff the could build seemed like some from a Harry Potter movie. We started talking about technology and they didn't desire to have a cellphone or any phone for that matter. They seemed so much at peace with just the basics in life. Clearly they live in a area with malls but still appreciated life in a simple form. Now its 2011 and most folks can't go a day without cellphone use, and have a piss fit if they cell is about to die while at the mall. We stand in long lines waiting for the new it phone then rush home to make an unboxing video as others tune to watch us in awe to remove the plastic off a device. We call up the carriers begging for an update to get a new device.. log in to sites like this and complain about the device and while asking developers to stop spending time with your family and hurry up on that root so i can do a whole bunch of nothing with my phone. I'm not saying cellphones are bad, if your wife ran out to pick up pizza and got a flat you definitely want her to have one in that situation. I'm talking bout being apart of the gimmick crowd...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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I'm happy to be there. My firm belief is that technology will produce the paradise we all want. Unlike some conservative types, I don't adhere to the rule of suffering in life all the time. They think the only good person is one who is 24/7/365 suffering and doing without. We make technology to overcome the environment, not to continue to suffer in it. The only reason there is any form of suffering in the world is because technology hasn't developed to the point of addressing all of the needs. As long as a person holds onto their ethical and moral integrity, suffering is needless.
Don't like this idea. Some people always say that these are just devices that call and text, everything else is excess and we don't need it in our daily lives. Like we should be grateful we have them. But this is called progress. At one time, we didn't have cars or color tv or this latest gadget. And we have adjusted our lives accordingly so that they are essentials in day to day living. It's foolish to just live in the past or sit still, the world moves at a fast pace. If we didn't feel a need for more, innovation would just stop. They don't even call cell phones "cell phones" anymore, they call them mobiles because that's what they are. Mobile devices
Yes, I agree with you geeksquadryder. As we are forgetting what a real life is? We need mobiles for doing our daily work but some people getting mobiles for not satisfying must needs but for fun. We know how much impact these mobiles can have in our life in helping and ruining. So, its upto the head of the home to teach or drive his/her home to be happy with/without things of needed.
Our biggest mistake was coming down from the trees in the first place. Everything since then is just compounded error. Too late to go back now!
aFo3262 said:
Don't like this idea. Some people always say that these are just devices that call and text, everything else is excess and we don't need it in our daily lives. Like we should be grateful we have them. But this is called progress. At one time, we didn't have cars or color tv or this latest gadget. And we have adjusted our lives accordingly so that they are essentials in day to day living. It's foolish to just live in the past or sit still, the world moves at a fast pace. If we didn't feel a need for more, innovation would just stop. They don't even call cell phones "cell phones" anymore, they call them mobiles because that's what they are. Mobile devices
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+1
people are constantly saying how technology has made ungrateful and ruined lives. I don't see how wanting the most out of your phone can ruin your life. This is called evolution/progress. I'm glad we have cell phones and I'm glad technology is getting better and I hope one day I won't have to lift a finger to do many of the tedious tasks I do on a day to day basis.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
If we just stick to "need" when we live life, we'd be a very poor society. Much of the art and technology we have today have made it so far for want of innovation and pleasure. And yes, also for pure fun.
It's not excessive, it's creative, new, interesting and in this way, important. Especially since we came down from the trees...
DirkGently1 said:
Our biggest mistake was coming down from the trees in the first place. Everything since then is just compounded error. Too late to go back now!
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Yup. Now we are describing quantum physics with languages initially designed to tell the other monkey where the fruit was.
yeah, and let's just revert back to farming for every one right...
i'll use whatever tech i want, you can go be a luddite.
ballasdontcry said:
yeah, and let's just revert back to farming for every one right...
i'll use whatever tech i want, you can go be a luddite.
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Or use two tin cans and a string...
(somebody's sig, that is)
sakai4eva said:
Or use two tin cans and a string...
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That would be 1970's tech to the Amish.
By the way, anyone know what an Amish guy's arm up a horse's butt is? A mechanic.
sakai4eva said:
Yup. Now we are describing quantum physics with languages initially designed to tell the other monkey where the fruit was.
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Mind = blown! Genius post
I do often think the Amish and others of that ilk have the right idea. It may be luddism but as a society i bet they are generally happier than the rest of the world at large.
DirkGently1 said:
Mind = blown! Genius post
I do often think the Amish and others of that ilk have the right idea. It may be luddism but as a society i bet they are generally happier than the rest of the world at large.
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Sorry to tell you but technology is important. I always remember the economics of technology, where tech has the potential of drastically changing supply, demand or both.
It increases the quality of life, and frees us to do things that are more important, like putting funny captions on pictures of cats instead of adding up a few thousand lines of labour costs.
You read HHGTTG, there was one book where people used leaves as currency...
p/s: I stole that initial quote from Pratchett.
sakai4eva said:
Sorry to tell you but technology is important. I always remember the economics of technology, where tech has the potential of drastically changing supply, demand or both.
It increases the quality of life, and frees us to do things that are more important, like putting funny captions on pictures of cats instead of adding up a few thousand lines of labour costs.
You read HHGTTG, there was one book where people used leaves as currency...
p/s: I stole that initial quote from Pratchett.
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As i said earlier, it's too late to go back now. I disagree that technology improves lives though. More people die because of technology than are saved by it. You have to remember that as a race we have stopped evolving; instead our tools are evolving. Rather than changing to adapt to our environment we are trying to change our environment to adapt to us. This is not a good thing.
DirkGently1 said:
As i said earlier, it's too late to go back now. I disagree that technology improves lives though. More people die because of technology than are saved by it. You have to remember that as a race we have stopped evolving; instead our tools are evolving. Rather than changing to adapt to our environment we are trying to change our environment to adapt to us. This is not a good thing.
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Wow, I could berate you over that. But I won't. The reason I want to is because THAT is a main part of the conservative/religious ideal. It's ignorant because they believe they...embodied in their gray matter...have all understanding and knowledge of the universe and existence. Because of this, they push hardship and suffering on society as something good for us.
These pea-brained idiots never consider they do not know everything. They have a thought, and because *they* have that thought, it has to be correct and righteous. So therefor they proceed to prevent society from having peace and they thwart all technological progress as much they can and call it evil. They are the kind that believes only someone who is constantly suffering is a better person. And they do that to people.
They see one aspect of something and conclude that it leads to what they believe it should.
You'll have to pardon my intensity because here in America, that is exactly what happened to my life. My life was wiped out as though it was nothing to me by ideological/religious/conservative zealots. With an attitude of, "You'll thank me when you recover". The only problem is they had no clue how destructive their ideology was to me and it obliterated my life.
I'm a godless Atheist but this is not a religious discussion! I love technology but i admit that the cost far outweighs the benefits. The global gene pool is getting weaker by the day while we rape the planet that we rely on to survive.
Advancement is inevitable but so is entropy. Equilibrium will be returned but i guarantee it won't be in a way that's favourable to human life.
DirkGently1 said:
I'm a godless Atheist but this is not a religious discussion! I love technology but i admit that the cost far outweighs the benefits. The global gene pool is getting weaker by the day while we rape the planet that we rely on to survive.
Advancement is inevitable but so is entropy. Equilibrium will be returned but i guarantee it won't be in a way that's favourable to human life.
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Amen, I mean, I agree to that (zing!).
Truth is, I believe that technology helped me a lot. I mean, Microsoft Excel is a million times better than an A3 piece of paper and a calculator.
But certain techs makes us dumber, and not smarter. We don't use it to expand ourselves and our capabilities, but to limit ourselves and reduce innovation and creativity.
Case in point; iPhone.
**sniff sniff** smells like..... religious overtones.... wafting through the air....
(What I'm doing here.......... Your seing it??)
Marty, I'm looking in your direction......
conantroutman said:
**sniff sniff** smells like..... religious overtones.... wafting through the air....
(What I'm doing here.......... Your seing it??)
Marty, I'm looking in your direction......
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Lol. Would be like missing John Cleese goose stepping through dining room...
Religion is OK just don't mention the war!!!
Sent from my GT-P1000
nobleskill said:
Lol. Would be like missing John Cleese goose stepping through dining room...
Religion is OK just don't mention the war!!!
Sent from my GT-P1000
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What war? The one where they killed everyone for staying in some place long ago, or the one where they kill everyone else for being someone else?
Wait, I got that mixed up, didn't I, it was the one where they killed people for being different, right?
p/s: religion talk is never ok, especially when it gets slightly out of hand. Note the understatement
so, i'm curious how the users of xda think about the charlie hebdo attack of last week?
i think the UN should compile an army force and send them out to the middle east to prevent the terrorist groups
from traveling further and try to prevent groups from attacking innocent and harmless civillians (anywhere in the world)!
i believe the people of Isis and Al-qaeda should be taken out by force! honestly i don't approve of any violence! however in this
case the diplomatic way didn't had any positive result! therefore for the first time i'm saying yes to open fire! obama and other worldleaders should
finally put action to their words! these terroristgroups are an absolute thread to freedom of speech and expression!
so please give youre opinion and you're thoughts about this awful tragedy
(sorry for my broken english) i'm dutch :silly:
my condolances to the victims and family of the fallen!
je suis charlie
And as such the victims will have died in vain. Charlie Hebdo stood for freedom of speech through humour. They abhorred violence.
Murdering others because you don't agree with their ideas, however controversial they may be, makes you no better than those who murder others because they disagree with their ideas.
Murdering innocent people because you're upset over a cartoon is pure cowardice. It's not brave, it doesn't make you a hero. It makes you a pathetic coward.
But answering violence with more violence isn't the answer. That's how this whole mess started in the first place.
The problem here is religion. For as long as history can remeber, people have been slaughtering innocents in the name of some fictitious god. Christianity is no better, or have people forgotten about the crusades?
Cue more butthurt people now painting a target on my head just for saying that. Freedom of speech kids, it works both ways. You get to preach about your god to those who don't want you to, and we get to ridicule it. If we aren't allowed to ridicule it, you're not allowed to preach to us. It's both sides of the blade.
Religious followers being upset because someone drew their fictitious figurehead is as ridiculous as all of us going on a murderous rampage because someone drew the Android robot with a pink hat. But people are so brainwashed from birth that they can't see the sheer idiocracy of what they're doing.
That is what lies at the heart of this. But nobody wants to see it. All the imams have condemned the attack, but not a single muslim is willing to take a good hard look at their religion and see that it needs to change. In the west we have learned to accept (the hard way) that there are others who believe different, and we have learned to share our lives with them. We accept that someone won't pray at dinner, that someone won't thank a god every evening. Now it's time for muslims to make that growth as well.
What none of them realized is that those controversial catroons weren't meant as an insult.
The west learned through Apartheid that a seperate society doesn't work. We adapted.
The French shared their country, their lives and their culture with the muslims who came to live in France. They took them into their schools, their busses, their shops, their homes. They gave them the same rights and liberties as citizens.
Charlie Hebdo welcomed them into their lives by sharing their humour with them.
And as a reward for their acceptance, they were murdered.
And that is unacceptable. It is also why there is now such a backlash. If you come to live in our counties and want to share in our lives and become. A part of our society, you can't cherrypick the parts you want. It's all or nothing. You want the right to practise your religion in our society, then we retain the right to practise our humour.
I have gained a newfound respect for mayor Aboutaleb. That man should be an example to all muslims.
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ShadowLea said:
But answering violence with more violence isn't the answer. That's how this whole mess started in the first place.
The west learned through Apartheid that a seperate society doesn't work. We adapted.
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A wonderful humanist once said an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
Then I look at history the Christian crusades where many were murdered. Centuries later into the 21st century where Muslims, and I'm not meaning all Muslims, have the spotlight in committing many heartless acts against humanity. The cost of human life..................... the torture ,abuse,deprivation or murder of a human being there is never an excuse for that. I'm assuming these individuals have a built up, or have instilled in them, a hatred for the western way of life and use religion as an excuse to commit atrocities.
Apatheid indeed did not work, several of my friends who are Caucasian have worked in South Africa and it was an unsafe place to be for them.
There will be a balance for both, I'm thinking 2 or 3 lifetimes away. Hope is almost always a positive thing.
I have Muslim friends, some I have known most of my life and they are very different to what I have seen in the media.
I think I have written enough I'm emotionally drained.
Round and round we go
Political threads aren't really something that we allow. To much potential for emotions to get out of hand resulting in flaming of members.
Thread Closed
Hey everyone! I have an assignment about the topic of the ethics of dissecting animals in high school science class. I have a survey that asks about one's opinion on this topic. I thought it would be interesting to see what XDA members think about dissection in high schools so I would greatly appreciate it if you guys took a few minutes to fill out my survey on Google Forms. It would also be quite cool to hear about your experiences with dissection while you were in high school so feel free to start a conversation about that in this thread. Thanks everyone!
Here's the link to the survey: http://goo.gl/forms/xU2gjBTaQi
Over here animals used in labs for the purpose of education and study are never killed for that purpose. They're all roadkill, natural causes, diseased, etc. (This is in Western Europe, the law does not allow the killing of animals for laboratory pruposes.)
By dissecting an animal, people learn that animals are living creatures made of the same parts as themselves. That is a very important lesson, because the idea of humans being 'more' than animals, either special or better or 'god's favourite', is what leads to animal cruelty.
I always found it highly educational. Except the one time with the tarantula. I bloody hate spiders, dead or alive.
It also gives kids a stomach for blood, a great little reality check, a slap in the face about mortality, and it never fails to leave a lasting impression. Given the attitude of high school kids, that's a knock off their high horse they sorely need. If they cry and vomit, all the better. Life isn't pretty, welcome to the real world.
(A good friend of mine is a medical examiner, I sometimes help out as her assistant when they're short on staff, since I have had basic medical training. It's one of the reason why I do not care for someone's skin colour; I've seen up close that all humans look exactly the same inside their skin and when they're dead.)
I think dissection is fine, and is helpful if the dissector can handle the gore.
I grew up on a farm where we grew angus cattle, and lived off the meat we got from them. I was around during all the process, from the cow being shot, to the final cuts of meat being done. We also sometimes got a pet pig with the full intention of growing it out to eat.
When we started doing dissection I had no problem doing it, though I had a close friend who would stand in the corner, due to him not being able to stomach the gore. I always found dissection interesting, and it helped enforce the knowledge I had learned beforehand, however it was no use at all to the people who couldn't handle the gore.
ShadowLea said:
It also gives kids a stomach for blood, a great little reality check, a slap in the face about mortality, and it never fails to leave a lasting impression. Given the attitude of high school kids, that's a knock off their high horse they sorely need. If they cry and vomit, all the better. Life isn't pretty, welcome to the real world.
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I COULDN'T HAVE SAID IT ANY BETTER MYSELF. However I believe more needs to be done at younger ages to ease them into things like this, if you only get shown the gore etc in one full hit when your older, your more likely to be completely against it.
Overall people should be less sensitive, and dissection is good for learning