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Yo All!
Is there a *Clean* version of WM6.1 Pro? It is better for the users to have their own softwares to install.. Cos, its a waste of space if we don't use 'em... Well, its just an opinion.. Thank You! Especially for Syed Ather and c_shekhar..
If i had my Hima rite now...u would have had a Clean ROM with The latest build by tonight
i can cook a perfect rom in less than 25 minutes
Thank You Very Much!! I'll be waitin'!
you dnt understand...I dnt have a Hima any more ( broke it while repairing )
crazyboy12345 said:
Yo All!
Is there a *Clean* version of WM6.1 Pro? It is better for the users to have their own softwares to install.. Cos, its a waste of space if we don't use 'em... Well, its just an opinion.. Thank You! Especially for Syed Ather and c_shekhar..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I update you here.
The ROM is of Fixed size and takes the same quantum of space on device whether loaded with applications or not. Thats why The efforts always remain to utilize every bit of spare space in ROM by packing in it the application softwares/utilities.
If you take an absolutely clean ROM and install the same applications on it separately, you land up wasting the precious storage memory. And you know very well that on Hima the storage memory is only 30MB. So packing as many utilities as possible inside the ROM is always useful.
You would be surprised to know that on my device I have embedded following utilities inside the ROM (customised for my use)
1. Phatpad
2. Smart secretary
3. neotiles (a game)
4. Handy Shoppers
5. rlToday 1.22
6. Call SMS blocker
And with more than 600 cotacts mail/sms synchronization still have abt 11MB of storage free.
I hope it can give you some idea on this issue.
Yes I agree with you master c_shekhar. but you should pack the utilities of most intrest in the ROM. It is good that you have removed many of those junky types in your new release.
I have downloaded the new version 6.1.2a16CS which is a new build 19209. And shall report you once I flash it.
Hi guys, maybe you could try another ROM from PDAVIET forum.
http://www.pdaviet.net/showthread.php?t=23970
c_shekhar said:
May I update you here.
The ROM is of Fixed size and takes the same quantum of space on device whether loaded with applications or not. Thats why The efforts always remain to utilize every bit of spare space in ROM by packing in it the application softwares/utilities.
.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay... I'm currently downloading yours... The WM6.1 6.1.2a16CS .... it looks promising!
it would be cool if we could put the contents of the ExtRom to an SD-Card and decide for ourselves what software we want on our Phones, that would be great.
You can, very easily, as with the previous rom
c_shekhar said:
May I update you here.
The ROM is of Fixed size and takes the same quantum of space on device whether loaded with applications or not. Thats why The efforts always remain to utilize every bit of spare space in ROM by packing in it the application softwares/utilities.
If you take an absolutely clean ROM and install the same applications on it separately, you land up wasting the precious storage memory. And you know very well that on Hima the storage memory is only 30MB. So packing as many utilities as possible inside the ROM is always useful.
You would be surprised to know that on my device I have embedded following utilities inside the ROM (customised for my use)
1. Phatpad
2. Smart secretary
3. neotiles (a game)
4. Handy Shoppers
5. rlToday 1.22
6. Call SMS blocker
And with more than 600 cotacts mail/sms synchronization still have abt 11MB of storage free.
I hope it can give you some idea on this issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A fresh clean minimal rom would be good for messing around with Ather90's and others rom kitchens c_shekhar, mabey you could post one made with the latest build 19209
Jadel said:
You can, very easily, as with the previous rom
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for clearing that up
my question is if u put lots of programs into the program memory, and cook it, will the device become slow like hell?
boby1911 said:
my question is if u put lots of programs into the program memory, and cook it, will the device become slow like hell?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont mix up the things.
The ROM size is fixed. So it does not affect the program memory.
If you simultaneously keep active many programs then the free program memory get reduced. And if the free Prog memory is too less then the device becomes very very slow.
AND, The device may become slow even if you are not left with sufficient Storage memory. So availablity of both type of memory is important..
if i may add:
ROM: (Read Only Memory)
Size: 30 MB
Purpose: Keeps all installer files (Operating System, Applications) runs only after every HARD RESET.
Features: Cannot be ERASED except my FLASHING. (in step 2 at flash, it says..erasing ROM data)
RAM: (Random Access Memory)
Size: 128 MB (distributed to Program Memory, Storage memory, Ramdisk)
Program Memory needed by device to run programs (like DDR module in a computer), this is reset every time you reset your device.
Storage Memory, is used to store programs installed in device (like a harddisk in a computer), this is soft and supposedly hard reset persistent.
RamDisk, is a storage disk that is generated by converting some RAM as storage area. (much like a 2nd harddisk for installing programs), this is soft and hard reset persistent, which IMO is dependent on the state of your backup battery, mine loses data most of the time.
so total memory you have in XDA 2 is:
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB
in wm2003 and previous ROMS, this is defined as:
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB - 64MB program, 64MB storage, with slider provided to move memory allocation.
in wm5,6,6.1
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB = PROGRAM+STORAGE+RAMDISK
i hope i get this right, but this is how i understand this, corrections would be welcome.
paulpax said:
if i may add:
in wm5,6,6.1
ROM 30MB
RAM 128MB = PROGRAM+STORAGE+RAMDISK
i hope i get this right, but this is how i understand this, corrections would be welcome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
STORAGE is not part of RAM. Rest of understanding is OK...
Hello,
As you know Kaiser has 128MB of RAM. When you open Memory in settings then you can see that there is only 85.32MB of Program memory. So where is 42,68MB of RAM? Is all gone for pagepool in this ROM?
Best regards.
Just like yr desktop, everything runs on the machine need memory (RAM). OS (WM6.1), driver, start-up program, phone dialer, today ... etc.
jackleung said:
Just like yr desktop, everything runs on the machine need memory (RAM). OS (WM6.1), driver, start-up program, phone dialer, today ... etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are talking about "in use" memory. I am talking about total memory what you can see in memory in settings...
After soft reset i have:
Total: 85.32 MB
In Use: 38:93 MB
Free: 46.39 MB
Anybody can explain me why total memory is only 85.32?
art12345 said:
You are talking about "in use" memory. I am talking about total memory what you can see in memory in settings...
After soft reset i have:
Total: 85.32 MB
In Use: 38:93 MB
Free: 46.39 MB
Anybody can explain me why total memory is only 85.32?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know exactly what you are talking about. In older ROMs 6.0 and I believe some of the older 6.1, that amount was closer to the 100MB mark.
Part of that (about 12MB) is used for page pool. However almost that amount was used on the older ROMs as well, so wouldn't account for the almost 15MB disparity we see.
I have asked this question myself a couple times in the ROM development forum...no one has provided an answer. Some suggest that they are using that RAM as additional 'cache' ram of one type or another to improve performance. That seems like it could be a logical reason since whenever you increase other cache's in the registry it takes memory out of that same chunk. The other answer could be that there are newer or more low level drivers that for one reason or another are taking up that RAM.
Fact is no one knows. My bet is on cache of some point, although i can't really say that I see an improvement that would warrant that 15MB of use. There's not much you can do about it at this point other than live with the diminished memory or flash an older ROM.
Before i had HTC Himalaya (128MB of RAM) with WM5 and there when you set up 16MB pagepool then all rest of RAM (112MB) was available in memory applet. I never tried Himalaya with WM6 ROM so i can't tell how much memory was available then. However, thanks for your reply. Regards.
Hello,
I bought my Diamond yesterday from PDA plaza in Montreal. I am very puzzling with the memory I have on my unit. By clicking on Setting and Memory, this is what I have:
Storage: Total: 83.06 MB In use: 26.41 MB Free: 56.66 MB
Program: Total: 113.08 MB In use: 61.20 MB Free: 51.88MB
Very far from the specifications, which are ROM: 256 MB
RAM: 192 MB DDR RAM.
So is my unit defective? or this is normal.
Thanks in advance, because if I need to replace it, it need to be done as soon as possible...
Philippe
This would appear to be either a Grey Import or Pre-production specification? You should double check:
Go to - Start> Settings> System Tab> Device Information> Hardware Tab>
There you will find all the information about the physical memory?
If your correct then you may want to return it to the supplier or ask for a price reduction if your happy to keep it?
Hope this helps?
Thank you,
Yes, it is written Ram size 192 MB and Flash 256 MB. But why is that so different when I check on setting and memory?
Philippe
A chunk of memory is taken up by the Rom (System Software) and other system resources as they run. As you see new "cooked" roms become available you will see an improved level of memory usage - its nothing to worry about as long as performance is as expected?
I am incredibly envious that you already have the device though - looks like we here in the UK are going to have to wait a while longer unless we want an imported model?
Again - Hope this helps!
Because of all application running on your PDA...I heard that, with the 3D touchflo, there is "only" 90 Mo of Ram available !!
I'm using the Diamond to post right now. Touchflo 3d is a memory hog. only about 30% is free with no other applications running. the browser uses another 10%.
Thanks for all your comments. So to compare with my unit, please could you tell me how much memory you have for Storate and Program. So I will know how my unit compare to others...
Cheers,
Philippe
**** ME! How can it only have 50 MB of RAM free? Ive always got at least 60 free and I have 60 less to start with. Maybe TF3D is a massive hog?
But looking at the things you said, something like 113 available, 50 in use and 60 free, thats a good thing, you must have 192 built in, usually with 128 build in, you'll get figures of 80 available, not 113.
The one thing I dont understand is why the program memory never says that available is the amount of RAM you actually have. Because on startup I've usually got about 20 in use, and thats by the OS. So, when you take available program from the RAM you're meant to have, and get a number, lets say 80MB in this case, whats that used for?
rorydaredkign said:
**** ME! How can it only have 50 MB of RAM free? Ive always got at least 60 free and I have 60 less to start with. Maybe TF3D is a massive hog?
But looking at the things you said, something like 113 available, 50 in use and 60 free, thats a good thing, you must have 192 built in, usually with 128 build in, you'll get figures of 80 available, not 113.
The one thing I dont understand is why the program memory never says that available is the amount of RAM you actually have. Because on startup I've usually got about 20 in use, and thats by the OS. So, when you take available program from the RAM you're meant to have, and get a number, lets say 80MB in this case, whats that used for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With 128Mb RAM in machine Touch Dual shows 101Mb total, but Asus P750 120Mb. so adding another 64Mb we only gaining 12Mb total? Is that what you are trying to say???
83+113=196 is more than 192MB. Isn't the 256MB only for ROM (so WM6.1 OS+pre-installed programs?)
83 + 113 should not equal anything
Storage is the free space after a rom has been installed and is basically the free part of the ROM. With a lite made rom, it should be as large as possible, and the used storage on first boot should be near zero.
The 113 part is the RAM.
What I'm trying to say is where is the other 79MB of program memory (RAM)?
Because its not like on soft reset, you have say 113MB program free, no you have that available and about 60MB free. the approx 50 that is used up in this case is by startup items, and the stuff windows needs to rum. So where is this 79MB?
rorydaredkign said:
The one thing I dont understand is why the program memory never says that available is the amount of RAM you actually have. Because on startup I've usually got about 20 in use, and thats by the OS. So, when you take available program from the RAM you're meant to have, and get a number, lets say 80MB in this case, whats that used for?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sure it has some use. Hard drives are never quite as big as they say because of things like pagefiles, file allocation tables, etc.
Maybe that hidden 80MB is being used by system processes that are kept hidden. That's the only explanation I can think of, because computers don't seem to have a similar problem.
Dark Fire said:
I'm sure it has some use. Hard drives are never quite as big as they say because of things like pagefiles, file allocation tables, etc.
Maybe that hidden 80MB is being used by system processes that are kept hidden. That's the only explanation I can think of, because computers don't seem to have a similar problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm going to agree with you on that! No way they released all these phones with bad chips in them!
Hey guys,
I just switched from a Polaris to my Kaiser a few days ago, because of the keyboard.
I love my Kaiser, but there is one thing I'm wondering about.
Why is there so few RAM in the Kaiser?
On my Polaris I had 60+ MB free (with an 8MB Touchcube loaded), up to 68.
On the Kaiser I have max. 43-45 free with nothing (I know of) running in the background....
How is that?
Stefan
edit: It's the same situation on different ROMs I tested and it was the same situation on different Polaris ROMs, too. They were all fully loaded, no light ROMs etc.
I think most ROM chefs have gone to either "larger" page pools, or dynamic page pools. And depending on the page pool size, you will see less available RAM.
Would you like to "SEE" a lot of free ram but run yr machine slow because of no caching/paging? Or you want to "FEEL" a lot smoother user experience because we spend some ram for cache/pagepool?
With 128mb Qvga machine like Kaiser, I don't even dare to look at the memory meter since I NEVER run into not enough ram issue even I abuse it w/ lots of concurrent apps (Iguidance 4 + TomTom 7 + A2DP w/ Coreplayer + lots of todays plugins).
I rather concern about too many unnecessary background service/process since WM has a physical limit of 32 processes
45MB free is nothing to worry about, I've never really managed to use more than 20MB with more than 10 apps running.
And devices like the Hermes were doing fine with less than 20MB free after a clean boot.
very nice way expressing/explaining
so thats call for button X application (plug in)
jackleung said:
Would you like to "SEE" a lot of free ram but run yr machine slow because of no caching/paging? Or you want to "FEEL" a lot smoother user experience because we spend some ram for cache/pagepool?
With 128mb Qvga machine like Kaiser, I don't even dare to look at the memory meter since I NEVER run into not enough ram issue even I abuse it w/ lots of concurrent apps (Iguidance 4 + TomTom 7 + A2DP w/ Coreplayer + lots of todays plugins).
I rather concern about too many unnecessary background service/process since WM has a physical limit of 32 processes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The ROMs I used on the Polaris had a 18MB PP...
Laurentius' V10 also has 18MB...
And I also can't seem to fill the RAM, but I'm a little confused...
I also go pretty high on my page pools (24 mb). However, you can request a ROM of your liking with the page pool you want (look at my sig) .
kareem9nba said:
I also go pretty high on my page pools (24 mb). However, you can request a ROM of your liking with the page pool you want (look at my sig) .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thx, but as I said, I'm alright with my RAM.
I'm only curious why a ROM which is (supposed to be) very similar to a Polaris one according to the settings (where the Polaris ROM actually had the TouchCube with 8MB loaded) has 15-20MB less RAM available... what the hell is running in the background on the Kaiser that takes that much memory?
Oh, and btw, all the screenshots for the Kaiser I saw (even from light ROMs), don't have much more than 50MB free, so how can a light Polaris ROM have 70MB free??!!
Stefan
P.S: I don't mean to annoy anyone, but I just can't help it...
I wanna know what takes my RAM away...
Sayuuk said:
Oh, and btw, all the screenshots for the Kaiser I saw (even from light ROMs), don't have much more than 50MB free
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There, just for you. 47.3MB with no programs running but no reboot for more than one week, and 63.1MB after reboot. The screenshot program is taking 1MB in both cases, and I have a couple of small programs starting automatically on boot.
Any chance you'd be using WM6 on one and WM6.1 on the other?
Sayuuk said:
what the hell is running in the background on the Kaiser that takes that much memory?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why don't you use Memmaid and take a look?
jackleung said:
Why don't you use Memmaid and take a look?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't find anything, that's why I'm asking ;-)
@kilrah: interesting, I never saw that much free RAM on a Kaiser.
However, on my Polaris I had a ROM (as previously mentioned) that was fully loaded, all the stuff I have on my Kaiser + the Cube and I still had about 20MB more free RAM than I have on my Kaiser without a Cube...
The only Hardware-based difference on the Kaiser is the keyboard... but that can't have anything to di with it, can it?
Stefan
I was also always curious as to why, if they can make 32gb micro sd cards, can't they simply put that much memory into the Kaiser to begin with?
Two Things
A) They don't have 32Gb MicroSD cards yet.
B) Lets say they Did. Leaving the Card Slot Blank costs nothing. Filling it with a Card costs money. Larger Profit Margin for HTC. They win.
And some more:
D) Most people don't give a damn about having 16/32GB in their phone, and would certainly be pissed off if they had to pay more for something they didn't need. Those will just buy a 1GB card and be fine with it.
E) That would open the door to iphone-like ripoff, with $100-200 difference between the 8GB and 16GB models... when we know that a 8GB memory card costs around $20 nowadays, so much more like $5 to add it inside the phone for the manufacturer. But as we all know, internal memory always costs more than cards....
F) Bit unrelated, but in my country electronic devices are subject to a copyright-style tax based on the amount of internal memory. But memory cards aren't taxed. Choose the best option
And backup sizes increase too!
After watching my free device memory decline and backup sizes go up every day, I found that PIE (Pocket Internet Explorer) and Opera were taking a more than decent amount of memory for their caches.
Clearing PIE and Opera's cache freed over 30M of device memory for me!
While Opera gives a setting for cache size, PIE has only a registry setting:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\Content\CacheLimit
It's set to 42680 in my Tilt. While I can change the registry value, the change won't survive a soft reset.
My solution is to regularly clear the browser caches and check the device for temp files. It's made a huge difference for me (from 11M free to 61M free)
gavink said:
After watching my free device memory decline and backup sizes go up every day, I found that PIE (Pocket Internet Explorer) and Opera were taking a more than decent amount of memory for their caches.
Clearing PIE and Opera's cache freed over 30M of device memory for me!
While Opera gives a setting for cache size, PIE has only a registry setting:
HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Internet Settings\5.0\Cache\Content\CacheLimit
It's set to 42680 in my Tilt. While I can change the registry value, the change won't survive a soft reset.
My solution is to regularly clear the browser caches and check the device for temp files. It's made a huge difference for me (from 11M free to 61M free)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, we are talking about RAM (program memory) and you are talking about ROM (storage memory).
I always use memmaid to clean up before backup to make sure no junks are being backup. In fact, most backup software allow you to choose what directory to or not to backup.
jackleung said:
Man, we are talking about RAM (program memory) and you are talking about ROM (storage memory).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see that in the previous posts. I do understand the difference between program and storage memory. RAM is where everything but the base system is stored... right? ROM (read only memory) isn't used for a dynamic cache... right?
gavink said:
I don't see that in the previous posts. I do understand the difference between program and storage memory. RAM is where everything but the base system is stored... right? ROM (read only memory) isn't used for a dynamic cache... right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was back on '03... the terms stayed the same but since WM5 the technology changed
It's like on your PC.
RAM is the storage the programs actually run in, ROM is the ... rest
If you look at the Memory Page in the settings. ROM ("Storage") is what you're talking about and RAM ("Program") is what the rest of us is talking about...
Stefan
Sayuuk said:
That was back on '03... the terms stayed the same but since WM5 the technology changed
It's like on your PC.
RAM is the storage the programs actually run in, ROM is the ... rest
If you look at the Memory Page in the settings. ROM ("Storage") is what you're talking about and RAM ("Program") is what the rest of us is talking about...
Stefan
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sooo... you're saying that my PIE and Opera caches are both in my Tilt's ROM? Wow... somehow I fell waaaay behind the times!
gavink said:
Sooo... you're saying that my PIE and Opera caches are both in my Tilt's ROM? Wow... somehow I fell waaaay behind the times!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's not actually ROM anymore, that's what I meant and I guess that's why you're confused.
I think you understand what RAM is. Now what we mean when we say ROM is just the rest of the internal storage that is NOT the RAM.
If you read the specs of HTC phones you always see 128MB RAM and 256MB ROM. ROM in this case is just a name that's in use cuz it's always been used, though it's not ReadOnlyMemory nowadays.
Stefan
Hello,
I would like someone to clarify to me some things about the device memory. My current mem readings as shown in the Control Panel are:
- Storage: 299.01 MB (210.27MB free)
- Program: 183.73 MB (72.87 free)
According to the official specs, the Topaz has 512 MB ROM and 256 MB RAM. How are these two types of memory related to Storage and Programs? Is there a way to mess between RAM, ROM, Storage and Programs in order to achieve optimum memory usage? For example, in my device there seems to be a lot of free Storage Mem available, as compared to Program Mem... Should I need to do something about this big discrepancy?
I would be grateful if someone clarified all this to me.
To be very short:
ROM (Read Only Memory) is where bootloader and Windows resides:Beside this there is more room to install applications (Programs) and to store personal files such as pictures,videos,mp3,docs etc.(Storage). ROM is non-volatile memory, this means that data will remain in the device even if power is cut off and will be available the next restart.RAM (Random Access Memory) is volatile memory that your device needs for ordinary functioning (loads into it programs that are running).RAM wil be emptied if powered off. It does not have sense to compare these two values and try to make them similar. An advice would be to install and store all you can in the Memory Card.Note: some apps/cabs need necessarily to be installed in the device (Programs memory) otherwise they don't work.Note 2: Access timings to memory cards are higher than internal ROM, take it in consideration if you have to decide where to store/install.
...Well I wasn't so short..I'll try it again:
If someone asked me:""why do I have so little free Program memory compared to Storage memory?"
I'd answer:"It's beause of many useless Microsoft programs embedded into Windows that cannot be uninstalled, only cooks can do it"
Thanks a lot for the (not so short after all! ) reply! So, if I get it correctly, the so called Storage Memory is the ROM after all: In other words, these 210 MB that are free cannot be utilized by me in any way, unless of course, I switch to a cooked ROM that contains lots of programs that currently occupy my RAM, and which they will not be needed to be installed there any more.... However, I am not in the mood of flashing and setting everything up from scratch, right now....
The storage card is indeed a solution, yet it has the two limitations that you correctly mentioned... So, I will basically have to stick with the RAM that is left...
In the same order as your arguments:
-Those 210 MB CAN be used by you, by installing apps in it, but I adviced you to possibly install them in Memory Card unless inevitable.
-Cooked ROMs generally free up Programs Memory area (or maintain same memory and upgrade embedded apps).
-Storage card is simply VITAL,access timings and transfer speeds are good enough to support everyday use.
-Then you talk about RAM: You "have to stick to RAM that is left" as anybody,but RAM usage is variable, depending on how much intensive is your device work in runtime. To optimize RAM memory use CleanRam, you can do it manually or schedule it (like I do)...and of course don't run too many apps at the time (check Task manager)!!
jcan said:
Hello,
I would like someone to clarify to me some things about the device memory. My current mem readings as shown in the Control Panel are:
- Storage: 299.01 MB (210.27MB free)
- Program: 183.73 MB (72.87 free)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was talking about these 210 MB, which are reported as free in my Storage memory, which if I understood well is the ROM... So I can't use them to install apps in it.
On the other hand, the Program memory (which I have 73 MB free) is the RAM, right?
Or I've got it all wrong?
210 MB is part of the ROM and it is free space in which you can store personal files (mp3,pictures,videos,contacts,docs etc.)--->same as Memory Card but smaller and quicker.The free memory in which you can install programs is in your case 72.87MB and is still part of the ROM(I want to better check this last statement,update coming soon).
RAM is another memory module,physically separated from ROM,it's another chip. RAM values vary with the device workload.
Update: I confirm,to simplify we can say that both Storage and Programs memory is part of the ROM, in no ways it can be considered as being RAM.
Thanks a lot for all the clarifications, sualc! Now everything has been sorted out to me.
You're welcome,cheers