Database Develop

New apple Ifoon versus the BA

From what I've seen there is not a lot more that the Ifoon can offer over what the BA has.
I like the look of the ifoon, but other than edge what else does it offer?
A bigger hole in the bank account.

Agreed.
Apple, welcome to 2004.

Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.

no ways yoz
fraser said:
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
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haha bros that's an apple patent.. we all know this!! software support always been an apple downfall. Not only that but no physical buttons?!? What happens when the 'super apple' touchscreen goes out? ouch! You got that bar of soap it so much resembles!
I dig my BA, but it's too big and bulky, get a hermes for that price! Apple and Jobs built a POS. They're just jealous that M$ is getting so much recognition with new smartphones. Last year at this time it seemed half the world didn't even know what a smartphone was.. until the release of these smartphones like the Q/blackjack, every lil 16yr old cries to their parents for one. What a crock! My opinion.
Apple needs to stick to software, the Intel macs are tearing up the G5's all around.

I have watched the introduction of the iPhone over the net.
This is the best device of this class!! It is lightning fast, it is operated with fingers only (no stylus!!!!!) it is a unique Softwae/hardware simbiot!!! After all how many IPods have crashed or needed soft reset, hard reset and so on? If Apple release this wonderfull device I'll get myself one for sure!
This is personal opinion!

OrionBG, I'm not convinced. I know at least three iPod users that have had serious problems. Dodgy batteries, music db corruption (complete loss) and other issues with iTunes have left me quite unimpressed. The mere fact that they force you to use iTunes bites the big one. My friend had to reset his whole library after his PC hard drive crashed. Well, he would have if it hadn't been for the "illegal" utilities I helped him use to recover most of it.
Apples "Just Works" thing is largely a marketing myth. Pop over to any unofficial apple forum to see the real issues that their hardware has. You can't discuss these things on their official forums; if you raise a bug that they can't be bothered fixing, they'll just delete the thread everytime you raise it. Check the discussion in that link; they have a long history of this.
They also sue websites and threaten them if they say anything bad about apple. If this forum was larger they would be complaining about my current post. Paul over at Modaco had to remove a Today screen for Windows Mobile that looked a little like the apple one announced. If you announce any Apple "secrets", they will threaten to sue you even though you have never signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement. They have bigger lawyers than you and more money to spend so people rarely fight back.
Apple suck. This is not the right way to run a company IMHO. They are a bad company guilty of anti-competitive practices and this has been consistent over the past five years. Their recent hardware has been very anti-consumer and of poor quality. The only reason they get away with it is because their main competitor has a worse track record in these regards and that they have a fantastic marketing department.

Have u heard about piratebay activity called http://buysealand.com/ they've just decided to buy small "island" - no lawyers problem anymore.
... and one of the greatest tactic is "how something is amazing" post by "ordinary people" together with deleting "the wrong one".

I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while

rambo6 said:
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
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Nobody will build a perfect phone : )

!! M$ !!
Sure everyone hates M$ but what are the most widely used OS variants in the world.. Without a doubt...Windows products! Eat that Apple/Linux/whatever users
Plus like I stated, the need for physical buttons are a must, no? That must be one super touchscreen on the apple it will be the one way to navigate? Not even a scroll wheel like relatively cheap smartphones? OUCH! hope you have absolutely clean fingers no matter what that screen will be soo smudged up with nastiness!
Apple jealous of M$ tearing up the mobile market, can't stand it! hahaha I love it!! They're hardware is behind, only thing they've got going for them is the camera.
Apple ish*t specs
Technical Specifications
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams

I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
It's easier to shrug off the iPhone, especially if you don't have the money to buy it
cutting through the grituitous bashing, as well as the hype, I have seen good and bad things.
GOOD:
No doubt it has a hardware platform powerful enough to perform at least as good as our BAs, and probably better. Yeah, it could have 3G, but it would add too much to the cost of the machine.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability. Otherwise just pick up your Nokia 1110 with its black-and-white matrix and shut up.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate. And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
THE MIXED:
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
It will probably be bad for the hobbyst crowd, which would like to code for fun for their devices, and probably won't be allowed to. Unless Apple releases some open IDE a la Carbide, but since they are already closing up the door on software availability, this possibility is remote.
I think it's more bad than good, but at least we can hope this will be a death sentence for software developemnt for this platform, and that this will actually result in more security. Not that we have many actual threats out there, but smartphones have the potential to be hacked into, become zombies for spam botnets etc. etc. When the spammers/crackers start to tap on this, we might start to see Windows Mobile get into a nightmare...
THE BAD:
It lacks 3G, it does not have direct iTunes access (you have to cradle it to sync and add stuff);
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind? OK, I don't usually swap batteries around, but I tend to buy extended batteries (my BA has one). I only this machine has GOOD battery life, this might not bite as much.
It would be good to have a GPS throwed in too... hey, let me dream!
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time. I believe there have been t-mobile onlys before, after some time they will allow everyone to buy it. Remember, it's all about PROFIT. Apple will not close their market that much. If they can sell more, they will. They are probably working first with the operator which was easier to work with, they gave more of how apple wanted to control the device and the network. And they will probably use this to scrub on other operator and say 'Ok, if you don't do it the way I like it, I won't do you the favor of selling my devices to you' (Yeah, Apple is a bit like a diva). They will try to use the Cingular-only argument to try to drive the operator into submission. It's a reversal of roles, where usually the operators dictate what they want and don't want on their devices. And maybe they can pull it off.
IT's EXPENSIVE. Apple/Cingular is really 'stretching the thong' on this one. Either Cingular is not subsidizing AT ALL (have you thought of this possibility?), or the machine is really expensive.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag. The screen is the same size of a LifeDrive, which is not anywhere near the cost of this machine. 4-8 GB flash? look at the iPod nano's price tags. ARM CPU + radios, there are plenty out there. motion/orientation sensor? Hmm, look at the Wii controls, I think I have read something about them, those things are not expensive nowadays. The only exotic stuff is the multi-touch sensor, and those things exist for quite some time, they are just not popular. and lacking stuff like 3G radio, SD slot and... a removable battery cover (sigh) helps driving down the cost.
The profit margin is fat here! yeah, there is all this 'pay for R&D blah blah', but they are going to make a few good bucks.
BOTTOM LINE:
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.

pda...of course
in primis...here in hungary every apple stuff is sold for a double or triple price as in the US, this means, that the ifoon would cost minimum 1000-1200$...that is not affordable...or, of course, it is, but the ifoon doesn't worth that much...
pro secundo...the operator lock...well...it's discussed on many forums, that it wont be easy to crack it, so if it ever would be sold here, you couldn't change operator easily, and if not at all, it sucks...
pro tertia...the multitouch...say anything, that it's better than a single stylus...but i can't imagine, that i'll use my thumbs to scroll an ebook, or play minesweeper ;]...but anyway, if the software range is limited, than it matters no...sending an sms could be easyer, maybe, because, you could type...but you should use full screen keyboard...which is annoying, and anyhow, you could take it in your hand like a psp, so you could use only thumbs, that are big...and as mentioned...you will mess the whole screen with fingerprints all the time...that suck again
the thingy has no IRDA, this way you cannot use it as a remote control for tv, or what...
and, and as mentioned above...no gps, no sd, no changeable battery...anyhow 3G is said to be installed in it, till it will be merchandised...

Brazilian Joe said:
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
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I disagree. Sure, their PCs will get you on the net but as soon as you try to do something more complex they fall down. Their support is rubbish and they regularly delete bugs and forum posts about issues they can't be bothered fixing. Their computer hardware and QC have been slated regularly. About the best thing they have going for them is their legion of fanboi's (and astroturfers) convincing people that their computers "just work" when it's not the case.
They also threaten sites like xda-developers as a general rule. They probably have more lawyers than developers, basically a small Microsoft during it's evil phase.
About the only thing they've done right lately is the iPod, and even it has all the "all apple, all the time" idea where you can only buy music from iTunes and get it on to the device. If you try to write software so that people are free to use something else other than iTunes, they'll sue you for that.
Oh, and now they are charging you for patches and feature updates and calling it "an accounting quirk".
Apple suck, most people are just too blinkered by their dislike for Microsoft to see it.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
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It's nice, but I'm not all that impressed. Sure, most of us will have seen the multitouch proof-of-concept videos last year on a full PC, but this is on a phone. There isn't all that much room for more than one active finger. And what about one-handed operation? You'd need to have it on a table for multi-touch. And what, on a mobile, can it actually be used for that's superior to any other UI component?
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability.
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It's most redeeming feature IMHO.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate.
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Nope, built of OSX and it uses iTunes. That's quite a legacy there alone.
And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
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I could not disagree more. All they've done is take a standard device and slap a pretty UI on it. We could get that via a software update on old hardware right now. In fact, we had it and they forced hanmin to remove his post via bogus legal threats. One good thing about all of this is that MS will have to rethink their UI and play catchup a little.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
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My digital camera has that, it's very useful and intuative. You see it happen once and from then on it's instinctive just to rotate it. However, on a phone when it has to send redraw events to the running applications and deal with resolution changes, I'm not convinced this is something you want switching everything you move your arm.
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
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That's fine, but IMHO if you visit the xda-developers website often, this is not the phone for you. If you visit "hello" magazine and read about Paris Hilton, maybe that's the software delivery model designed just for you.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
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Not sure, signing doesn't prevent piracy, it just prevents tampering and provides a trust mechanism. Unless they generate you an unique key-pair for every purchase which I seriously doubt.
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
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Stream via WiFi, via iTunes and your credit-card? Standard Apple practice, charge 'em where possible.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind?
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Making money. Officially when your iPod battery dies (often 1 year old), you have to buy a new iPod.
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time.
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Don't hold your breath, it's a two-year (!!) contract.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag.
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No, but the Apple logo does apparently. All of their stuff is at least 30% over market value.
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
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Agreed. Might even get one myself, but I reckon that it'll give the other mobile platforms a kick up the butt and they'll be well ahead by then.

The subject is iphone versus BA
Nobody actually talk about BA at this thread.
Obviously, iphone wins.
Apple's real advance is draw all ppl's attention, media focus, even they build a ****.
Jobs yells, Look at our new ****!!

yoz my last post as a BA user
Heck I have cingular and i'd take a $200 BA over an $499 iphone anyday!! My last post as a BA user, I loved it, great, fast, versitile device. 3.5" display can't beat that.. widescreen at 240x320.. amazing hardware when it released. Lets seea crossbow leap to the BA.
! Long live HTC !

A friend of mine is very Iphone-minded; so from the moment he get's it, I'll have a look at this "device".
I can tell you this much: you will only be able to do with it what apple wants you to do with it - modifying, installing apps? forget it!
I can't imagine a iphone-developers.com

Hmm, there is an iSupply review estimating the BOM (hardware cost alone) to be around 250/280 for the 4/8 GB iPhones.
Even if I lived in the US, I wouldn't rush into the iPhone. i'd wait and see.
I like to see all technological advancements, and I am not a fanboy of ANY brand.
For example, while I have always preached AMD over intel since the K6, now I am recommending Core 2 Duo to anyone who asks. The performance speaks for itself. Since I acknowledged what the Centrino was doing, I kept a close eye on the Intel developments... When They announced that the Core 2 Duo would have an average 20% better performance over the Core Duo, I seriously doubted about it. I have read the technical articles, but I still was skeptic, believeing that they were trumpeting a 'best case' as if it were THE performance. But I was wrong. Core 2 Duio is really all that, and it will be interesting to see AMD catching up.
personally, I actully think AMD will pull it off, with the 'specialized cores' approach. They will embed a GPU (I believe it will be generalized and simply called a 'stream processor') in a multi-core package this year, and soon I believe we will see a Crypto core, and who knows what else. maybe AMD even ecides it's a good idea to have a FPGA as an extra core, and that would open an incredible number of possibilities.
Back to the iPhone subject:
I see the iPhone design as the antithesis of Nokia, nothing is more antagonic to the 'buttons only' approach of S60 than a touchscreen-only.
UIQ and Windows Mobile stay in-between, playing both games, but apparently losing on both. I would like to have a hands-on test drive on the iPhone, but I believe they got it right on the interface.
I really believe the software model they are trying to impose is on of iPhone's greatest risks, the other one is being locked on Cingular for too long, and those could cause its demise.
I really hope it suceeds though, because there is at least one thing it brought to the market, and I really, really hope Microsoft adds it to Photon (WM7): MultitouchScreen.
Competition is good.

well. I have read a great deal on the new i phone. My own opinion is simply that they will NOT corner any part of the mobile phone market let alone come anywhere close to the BA or HTC models of any description.
Apple are already running into stupid problems already if the BBC news here in UK is correct. Apparently the "i phone" name is already a no go thanks to a previous copyright name came from a different company. And as far as being original and up2date....apple are always very close to the mark when it comes to this. Remember last year towards Nov Dec time when LG showed up with their version of what they say as the interactive mobile phone. And how close
the apple phone is in comparison to the LG. I say no more.
OS X maybe pretty to look at, but I much prefer the adaptability and personalizing of the modern Windows Phone edition etc. Have what you want, when you want, HOW you want. AND then....carry ALL your media content including movies mtv clips cartoon....oh yes...AND music (mp3 ogg files etc)it all about (if you prefer) on you OWN memory card.
I digress...

Well, Apple is not that much of a stupid company.
They negotiated and researched before trumpeting the iPhone name.
More recently, after the 'what did they had in mind' reaction, it came up that complaints were filed both in the US and in the EU, in attempt to revoke Cisco's copyright over the iPhone brand for lack of use.
Seems they picked one of their existing products and just badged it as an iPhone, to try to keep hold of the name at the expiry date.
the productitself was released much later and is not what they showed previously, so Apple is trying to free up the name.
Well, it's a gamble, but they would't even try if there was no chance to win on trial.
It will depend on convincing the judge that Cisco was sitting on the name and not using it for too long, so long that they lost their rights over it.
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

TyTn 2 Vs Touch Cruise vs Touch dual vs Touch Diamond vs Other?

Hey I am new to the whole smartphone game. My initial plan was to hop on the bandwagon and purchase an Iphone, but after further review there are quite a few phones that serve my purpose's better than the Iphone. I am a college student so as you can imagine pictures and video recording are important too me, as well as video messaging. One of the things also that turned me on to the HTC camp was the fact that I can edit word doc's which you can't on Iphone (such as reports or essay's for school). Another thing I am looking for is a phone with both 3G and WiFi, I know the dual doesn't have wifi but I am also wondering how important is that too the phone. I also plan to play quite alot of movies (and of course music) on my phone. This will also be used to manage pretty much, my life as it will be my own personal assistant in every way possible. My desire is so that I don't HAVE to update my phone for quite a few years. I know the diamond doesn't come out for a few months, I can wait if need be. Now this is the catch, I am an at&t gophone customer so perferably I would like to get an unlocked phone of whichever of these phones are the best (at&t doesnt support prepaid use of at&t tilt, fyi) but I may just get a plan (and give them the damn 500 deposit, grrrr) if NEED be. I am also a big fan of touchscreen so I would love for whichever of those phones that has one of the better models/ easier use of it. Also I just moved to a new city so of course a GPS nav. would be great.
Anyways post away, thank you in advance for the help guys.

If you want a full keyboard get the TyTn 2
If you want something slightly slimmer with no keyboard get the Touch/Dual
For the most part you can emulate the Touch apps on the TyTn 2...so you kind of get the bet of both worlds.
However since your first inclination was for the iPhone I gather one of two things (or both):
1) You are an "apple" person and therefore probably don't want to tinker with your stuff to get it to work right for you.
2) You are concerned with looks and graphics above all
If either of these are the case I would wait for the Diamond as it really does appear to be much more fluid and you won't need to tinker to get it iPhone-esque. Of course, by the time they release it there will be hints of even newer device coming...

Cliff notes?

Dude, add a poll!

it really depends on your personal taste. Keeping the diamond off this review the tilt is the best among the other available options imo. I love having a full qwerty keyboard as texting and writing messages (especially for here ) is easy. The only place where it falls short is graphic and video drivers, note that i didn't say anything about hardware which is perfectly capable .. just need better drivers.
Anyways it all boils down to personal choice .. the tilt rocks imo.
p.s. CUSTEL there is dude looking for a tilt i recommended you

Well one of my biggest things is going to be both putting movies/music videos on my memory card as well as streaming videos on my phone so - these graphic and video drivers, are they major complications in that? I have read some things on the issues with playing videos on the tilt but was unsure if these have since been unresolved issues.
I am not an apple person, no. Looks I can live without but the graphics of the videos I play as well as the video recordings are of importance. I don't mind tinkering with the phone to get a better phone at all no. That is one of the things I like about these phones are that you can download diff things for them (so I've read). The reasons why I wanted the iphone are simply that, I HEARD the iphone is the best phone out. After further research I have not found that to be the case, especially in my situation. The fact that it doesn't have a video camera NOR MMS are huge faults for me. I loved the fact that it was touch screen, but seeing as there are so many more touch screen phones out there that I didn't know about opened a whole new world too me =].
And yes, the fact that better phones ARE always coming out is something that I have thought about and one of the reasons why I may scratch the diamond off my list =p
Also can somebody inform me on how too add a poll, ty.

The microSD cards are a very good solution for music and videos. Without the graphics drivers, streaming video is not a problem. Also as long as the video is decently sized to the resolution of the phone, playback should not be much of an issue if you use Coreplayer Qtv (not free software). I personally don't like the Tilt (it's too bulky) and think the Cruise is a great device.
The Diamond is another cool device, but the fact that it has no microSD slot and is not a true worldphone (like the kaiser and cruise) are negatives for me. Also I have yet to see what the battery life will be on that device, smaller battery and all. Besides the Diamond won't be out for the Americas for a bit longer.

Charlemagne said:
Well one of my biggest things is going to be both putting movies/music videos on my memory card as well as streaming videos on my phone so - these graphic and video drivers, are they major complications in that? I have read some things on the issues with playing videos on the tilt but was unsure if these have since been unresolved issues.
I am not an apple person, no. Looks I can live without but the graphics of the videos I play as well as the video recordings are of importance. I don't mind tinkering with the phone to get a better phone at all no. That is one of the things I like about these phones are that you can download diff things for them (so I've read). The reasons why I wanted the iphone are simply that, I HEARD the iphone is the best phone out. After further research I have not found that to be the case, especially in my situation. The fact that it doesn't have a video camera NOR MMS are huge faults for me. I loved the fact that it was touch screen, but seeing as there are so many more touch screen phones out there that I didn't know about opened a whole new world too me =].
And yes, the fact that better phones ARE always coming out is something that I have thought about and one of the reasons why I may scratch the diamond off my list =p
Also can somebody inform me on how too add a poll, ty.
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I think MChapman was being tongue in cheek with his poll suggestion. This topic has been BEAT TO DEATH on this forum and does not deserve to be ever brought up again. EVER. What phone should I pick? Is the Iphone better? Basically no phone does everything well or else there would not be so many phones. You don't seem to want much(laugh) just everything in a small package. The iPhone is a entertainment device with minimal life organization abilities. The Tilt is a hardcore business and life organizer with adequate entertainment functions. Personally I have a Tilt that runs my life and business and an ipod touch that has 16GB of entertainment on it . They both do exaclty what I want them to do.
And if I want an all in one device, I duct tape them together

denco7 said:
I think MChapman was being tongue in cheek with his poll suggestion. This topic has been BEAT TO DEATH on this forum and does not deserve to be ever brought up again. EVER. What phone should I pick? Is the Iphone better? Basically no phone does everything well or else there would not be so many phones. You don't seem to want much(laugh) just everything in a small package. The iPhone is a entertainment device with minimal life organization abilities. The Tilt is a hardcore business and life organizer with adequate entertainment functions. Personally I have a Tilt that runs my life and business and an ipod touch that has 16GB of entertainment on it . They both do exaclty what I want them to do.
And if I want an all in one device, I duct tape them together
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Well said..... There are so many comparisons in this forum and everyone will have an opinion. Yes, i have the Tilt also and it's the best phone on the planet... (**NOTE** For me that is) Would your "Other" be the SE Xperia X1?

I bet the Touch Diamond's battery life will be very similar to the Tilt and the Touch Cruise due to the Diamond's processor being built on a smaller 65nm process if I am correct. And assuming that the processor consumes the most amount of power in the phone, this new one processor will consume less than the ones in the Tilt and Touch Cruise.

"This topic has been BEAT TO DEATH on this forum and does not deserve to be ever brought up again. EVER."
Oh ok, I didn't know that. I have been looking for people's input on these phones all over the net with minimal results. I am basically just trying to get a sense of what are the strong suits of each phone and on the flip side, what are the negative aspects of each phone and what should I watch out for with either. If anyone of you can point me too reviews or other forum discussions that highlight thats character traits about the phone that would be fantastic.
"Personally I have a Tilt that runs my life and business and an ipod touch that has 16GB of entertainment on it "
Thats cool for you, but personally I am not trying to walk around looking like inspector gadget. That and those are two major investments, especially when you can just get a phone that can hold sd slots (which also scratches out the diamond in my list fyi, ty hambola). Same with GPS and nav, now that your phone can do this it wouldnt make sense too go out and buy ANOTHER navigation system, especially for a student on a budget =] Too be honest also if you can type relatively fast on either one (for editing word doc's) I probably won't even need a laptop =] Just one simple phone would make my life a whole lot easier, man how I love technology.

You know, after further review of each phone I have decided not to get either of the phones. Each one has its own little draw backs that nag me too the point that I don't really want to purchase the phone. Hopefully the Xperia is amazing!!! ANyone else know any other good phones that would be up my alley? Thanks guys.

Charlemagne said:
You know, after further review of each phone I have decided not to get either of the phones. Each one has its own little draw backs that nag me too the point that I don't really want to purchase the phone. Hopefully the Xperia is amazing!!! Anyone else know any other good phones that would be up my alley? Thanks guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xperia does not convinced me at all. That's my opinion.
I just saw a video of the Diamond and I have to say it's a lot better than Xperia.
Hey there is a new iphone coming next month with 3g and other stuff, and I'm pretty sure you already know
Anyways...Tilt is a great choice.
Hey I'm thinking on selling mine but.. trust me is a hard choice. I really like the Tilt.

Well one of my biggest issues with the tilt is that it doesn't have a GPS nav in it which blows =[ The diamond doen't offer card slots (???? wtf???) so I can't upgrade memory or put any music/movies on any cards.

The tilt does have a GPS nav in it.

where are all these so called "Touch" apps located?

TYTNII Rocks
I have a TYTN II that rocks my world. It organises my business, and stores enough podcasts to keep me amused while flying (4 hours per week). I don't do video as am well over the porn thing although do watch Big Brother via Planet 3 here in Oz. It's bulk and I;m looking at a Diamond for my son, as 3 here has ceased selling the TYTN II. the Diamond looks pretty smik.

Diamond Alternatives

Ok I am fast moving towards selling my diamond and buying one of those giant brick phones from the 80's seriously....
Ok the killers for me are battery life, poor reception, its laggy and for some reason it hangs up when I try to answer a call too often.
So I'm sure others are thinking the same thing, what are the alternatives everyone is looking at??
The 3g iphone might be an option for me, I know there is not as much software for them but I made the pc -> mac change a while ago and never looked back. Is there anything else worth concidering with 3G and GPS??

It really depends on what is important to you.. does it need to be small? does the OS matter? Does it have to be a 'smart' phone?
You can start by looking here: http://pdadb.net/
You can filter on OS, screen size (vga, qvga) etc
Personally i havnt found anything of similar size and spec. Only the iphone comes close but apple have really locked it down. I can see software being high priced
Also it'll cost a bomb for the tariff - you can't walk into a store and buy it without signing up on the spot. So even if an 'unlock' comes out you're stuck. Unless you buy a prepay one - price not confirmed yet but probably 400 quid on O2.

If the look of the 3g iphone appeals then check out the Samsung i900 Omnia. Be aware though, it is brand new, like the diamond, and like the diamond, will be buggy.
To be honest, if you want a phone that works, don't buy brand new just released models.

How about HTC Touch Pro?

I just sold a 16gb iPhone to change to a Touch Diamond (which should arrive tomorrow). The iPhone is a great piece of kit - but unfortunately Apple made too much effort making it a cool media device, and not enough time making it a phone.
No MMS, Poor SMS features (not able to delete a single text, no idea of text length etc), No Video Recording etc.
I originally sold it to buy a 3G iPhone - but then I found out its exactly the same software - except with GPS and 3G.

Samsung Omnia (SGH-i900) is an alternative. Coming very soon. But still questions re: which 3G bands it will support (but we already know the Diamond is only dual band 3G, so it likely won't be any worse).

toshiba g910

Xperia X1, no doubt¡. I wont buy Diamond because of the lack of KB and the comments here. Then I was going to buy HTC Touch Pro and finally....I fell in love with Xperia X1.....

The Xperia doesn't have Satellite GPS, only Data GPS (A-GPS) -> No Tomtom etc, only expensive Google Maps navigation.
The Samsung i900 seems to be an alternative, but seems to have a weaker backlight of the display in comparison with Diamond or iphone 3G.

PAPPL said:
The Xperia doesn't have Satellite GPS, only Data GPS (A-GPS) -> No Tomtom etc, only expensive Google Maps navigation.
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Click to collapse
from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-GPS
"Some A-GPS solutions require an active connection to a cell phone (or other data) network to function, in others[2][3] it simply makes positioning faster and more accurate, but is not required."
i beleive this statement is incorrect. agps is more faster and trys to get your position by downloading data from internet

Just my 2 cents:
Death before getting iphone.
Remember boys, Second best they are!

Samsung Omnia, if you want WM one with good features. Only two things that really bother me about it - Samsung propietary connector and lack of proper hard reset (so if you install something bad that prevents booting of OS, you screwed and will have to visit a service center for re-flash).
If you dont care about WM, consider the new iPhone 3G. Its less feature-packed, however price is better too.
Or just wait for something from E-Ten.
Or for Google Android devices

i'll buy a brick if.......i''ll know that is supported here and it will have a sub-forum here, at xda-dev.!!!!!
now serious i found a little funny an futile to open here, in diamond's forum a thread about "i sold my diamond, what to buy instead".
each rom i flash, each tweak i add i like more and more my diamond.
generally speaking please stop posting completely useless post, and stop responding. each time you respond you "bump" it in the detriment of other post that are dealing with important technical stuff and help ppl in distress here. i know, i just did that but for a good cause...lol
we have more important things to do than considering witch new pda to buy and replace the diamond.

KukurikU said:
i'll buy a brick if.......i''ll know that is supported here and it will have a sub-forum here, at xda-dev.!!!!!
now serious i found a little funny an futile to open here, in diamond's forum a thread about "i sold my diamond, what to buy instead".
each rom i flash, each tweak i add i like more and more my diamond.
generally speaking please stop posting completely useless post, and stop responding. each time you respond you "bump" it in the detriment of other post that are dealing with important technical stuff and help ppl in distress here. i know, i just did that but for a good cause...lol
we have more important things to do than considering witch new pda to buy and replace the diamond.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No one can describe the sense of coolness you get when you install gsen turn your phone around......... I hear you bradaa, i love tweaking my baby, (something you will never get on another device).
Remember second best they are!

Can the Diamond really be recommended?

I cant help, but I am "slowly" getting more and more convinced not to buy a Diamond because of the apparent issues I continue to find.
First I found out about the display issue which is (also officially) said to happen only with too much pressure (what exactly is too much), although some reported them as well and stated to have taken care. Now it seems there is yet one more issue with the backlighting respectively the hardware itself.
Would you say I am exaggerating and those issues are normal ones which happen to some extent on all phones or is my upcoming impression right that the Diamond might be a true beta product - it's not that those issues are exactly minor ones?
Please let me know your true and objective (please no fanboyism in either way ) opinion.

all I can say is these forums get a lot more of
"I have a problem"
then
"my diamond is working fine and i would not change a thing"
happy users
1 never come here
2 try to help others

If you come to a forum where people are seeking help with their phone then unsuprisingly you are gonna find alot of people with phone problems they would like help with.
This is true for all devices from phones to cars, and will always give the impression that the device has many flaws. In the bigger picture far more people are happy with their diamond than reading here will have you think.

i believe that the diamond really is a great smartphone, (no fanboyism) and that it really delivers a great bunch of possibilities, especially when paired with xda developers it migth tend to be a little slow sometimes though. and sometimes even slower... but the first problem you described, ive never heard of before, and i do not believe you will experience this without trying to do it, or if you by accident throws a rock at the display (accident???) the second problem sounded like a flash of a custom rom gone wrong, which doesnt really have anything to do with the phone, but more with the person behind the phone
these 2 problems that you talk about seems like some that only happens if you doesnt take a little care of your phone, and i do not believe that these should make you worry about getting a diamond. but you might want to consider buying a diamond2 instead, since its about to get released

.
Thanks for all your responses so far, of course the argument of complainers being louder is valid, but I suppose I am particularly worried here because the two mentioned issues seem to be quite common - among the complainers at least - and seem to be rather major issues and not like a minor one such as a buggy software.
Hojlind said:
but the first problem you described, ive never heard of before, and i do not believe you will experience this without trying to do it, or if you by accident throws a rock at the display (accident???)
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Click to collapse
Usually I am not using rocks , but there are also quite a few in the mentioned thread who have stated to never have mistreated the display. Of course its not easy to verify this claim but I have to admit it makes me worry.
Hojlind said:
the second problem sounded like a flash of a custom rom gone wrong, which doesnt really have anything to do with the phone, but more with the person behind the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd have assumed that too, however it doesnt seem to have taken place immediately after flashing but a few days later and a few even mentioned it happened without any flashing at all.
Hojlind said:
these 2 problems that you talk about seems like some that only happens if you doesnt take a little care of your phone, and i do not believe that these should make you worry about getting a diamond. but you might want to consider buying a diamond2 instead, since its about to get released
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What attracts me particularly to the Diamond is its size. It is one of the smallest Windows Mobile phones available. The Diamond 2 is already noticeable larger and so I'd then opt for the HD right away.

I've had so many devices I can't remember how many, from pocket pc's to the diamond I've just been randomly given free, not on upgrade .. just a random gift.
First impressions - after having it for 6 hours:
Looks great, I like the candybar format, after the Vario III it's .. novel.
The screen is a vast improvement over the last generation of screens.
The camera produces usable images, the Vario III didn't. haven't tried video but the new drivers seem to be doing their job.
GPS lag has not been tested on the road but tomtom picked up a signal quickly enough.
I've not yet experienced the dropped call when answering because of the end call nonsense on the screen. If I do there is a workaround.
The Compact IV won't open a full 300mb Memory Map file, I've had to break the maps down into bite size chunks for it.
After using the vario III for a long time I've never used more than 3.5GB, despite having a 6GB card so I won't miss the lack of memory card.
I didn't use the keyboard of the other phones I used to the lack of it is welcome.
On balance, I would recommend this phone but a novice would quickly be frustrated and that's mostly down to interface quirks which you get used to after a while, and here's usually a workaround for most problems, except a duff driver.
Why the people at HTC and t-mobile don't just farm the ROM dev out to xda-dev is beyond me.
The developers here do a better job, quicker and cheaper than the bunch of talentless spods employed by the various co's who make the devices. Although, I might be being too harsh on the spods, they probably do a great job but get stymied by the suits.
Could I recommend the Diamond ? Yes.

Diamond is the best WM device I've ever used...
Mine's been bumping around in my pocket for the last 10 months, dropped a couple of times, lives in a (padded) bumbag when I'm trail riding my pushbike and generally been used rather a lot - but never abused.
In my previous job role I managed 1500 WM devices for an SME (sig...) and I can say with the absolute certainty of someone who has been there for a living that the kind of hardware failures that get reported here are almost unheard of in any WM devices that haven't been physically mistreated or had roms flashed in a hamfisted way.
Sitting down a couple of times with a touchscreen phone in the front pocket of a tight pair of trousers will always flex the device just enough for the display to fail somewhere down the line - usually long after the offender has left our employ and the device has been passed on to the next user...
Mind you I'll probably pick up a Touch Pro 2 when my contract is up for renewal...

I had one for a few months and didnt like it.
I am not remotely clued up on the technical side of things so this is very much a laymans report:
It had lots of features I liked but on the whole the phone was too much hassle and its cons outweighed its pro's. (the poor camera, the "black screen" when on the phone thing, the poor on/off button on the top, the poor lock/unlock system. But i loved the interface of the phone.
Swapped it for a LG Renoir and miss the Diamond, but they both have things the other doesnt. So I am no better off.
When will someone make the perfect phone? lol

The Diamond is excellent if you can handle it meaning you have really get into tweaking. Out of the box I would not recommend it but if you are willing improve it on your own by using the helpful programs of this forum than it's an excellent choice.

I have had several PDA phones: Sansung i700, i730, i760, HTC Mogul. Of those I loved the i760 with it's number keypad (granted it had it's issues also). Hated the Mogul (low memory issue and slow). The Diamond I consider an outstanding phone. My biggest issue is the lack of responsiveness of the screen. Takes some getting use to. I did the registry changes but didn't notice a real difference. Compared to the other PDA phones I mentioned I love the display quality, size, look, feel, and $10 internet with Sprint. Perfect phone for me. The battery life I can deal with. I have a cradle with a spare battery, a car charger and spare charger at work so I'm always prepared. By the way the battery life seems to have gotten better with the latest ROM update. I could recomend it but I always let people know of the battery issue, screen responsiveness and still having problems with time issue here in Arizona (changes by an hour every once in a while for some reason).

eurofan said:
The Diamond is excellent if you can handle it meaning you have really get into tweaking. Out of the box I would not recommend it but if you are willing improve it on your own by using the helpful programs of this forum than it's an excellent choice.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second that!!!
It wasn't great out of the box. But now.... I love tweaking/flashing and would recommend it to anyone.
Although, if your thinking of purchasing a diamond, personally, I would wait till the 'Touch Diamond 2' is released.

I agree with alot of the comments
Basically the HTC Diamond, or it many variants, is an excellent device (and I have had many many many devices).
What it has going for it:
1. Size
2. Weight
3. Fantastic screen
4. Looks nice and cute/good form factor
5. Well made
Issues:
6. Battery should have been bigger - not really an issue for me as I have a charger at work and home. I tend to charge every two days unless I have been using it intensly and then top up on the day (normally I top up if on 2 bars).
7. Shipped firmwares in the UK are mostly pants!
8. No card slot. Now I want to be clear about this, if you are just installing programs and/or data the 4GB storage is absolutely fine, more then enough in fact. It also is good for a small set of videos or music. However, if you want to store large amounts of music or videos then this device is not for you!
Basically, if you upgrade the Diamond after purchase to one of the more excellent ROMs on this site, it will have a beautiful display and quick response.
Also, note that, unlike something like the HTC Touch, this is a premium device. Which means it has nice touches like the stylus is held in magnetically and also, when you pull the stylus out it automatically switches the display on.
In terms of the Diamond 2 issue, that is obviously a better device, but the price will reflect it, and the HTC Diamond is now looking very good value. Personally, I like buying phones at the end of their run, as the firmware and price are the best.
Lastly, the HTC Diamond is a bit of a cult device. Why is this important ? Because it means that the support on xda-developers is much better then the less popular devices. As the HTC Diamond's price goes down, this will just increase.
best rgds

i just seriously love my diamond..the price on ebay is going down at a rapid pace n yeah..i love it bcoz of all the tweakin u can do on it..
man oh man..on which other device can u get a "not yet working" android os as well as some iphone like stuff for unlockin, music etc..n u can just about change everything thats on the phone..
tht may be coz its my first ever windows mobile phone n i was suprised by the remote desktop..use it to play poker on facebook now!! wanna view tv for uefa cup late at night..no problemo..n the autofocus camera with a beautiful vga screen adds as the biggest pro as i snap pics of my college assignments that are readable on its vga screen
i am a little disappointed with the touch screen though..cos when in remote desktop full screen, u cannot reach to the minimize, maximize n close buttons.. though u can use another software but its the touchscreen fault as the 4 corners of the screen are difficult to tap..
but overall im very satisfied n recommend it to all

The diamond rules!!! Buy one!! Buy one now :d

I just bought one cheap,don't like the diamond 2,it has no d-pad and looks a fair bit bigger.
The screen quality (colours and contrast)from what I've seen on youtube against the likes of the HD is what made me keen on it.
I have been using O2 flames for the last 2 years,so the battery life will be something I'm used to.
Hopefully it isn't like the atom life I bought and ended up selling within a week

gerryjoson said:
I just bought one cheap,don't like the diamond 2,it has no d-pad and looks a fair bit bigger.
The screen quality (colours and contrast)from what I've seen on youtube against the likes of the HD is what made me keen on it.
I have been using O2 flames for the last 2 years,so the battery life will be something I'm used to.
Hopefully it isn't like the atom life I bought and ended up selling within a week
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good luck! the quality of the diamond is much nicer then the atom.
start off on a good foot with a good rom

had a diamond sinve day 1 of orange uk launch
once flashed........a great phone.
does everything i want and more....so its gets a 10/10 from me...
if thats worth anything to you

^^^ Fanboy...
My opinion is that the Diamond is a nice attractive phone in a good size. Having said that, there are 3 major flaws:
1. Battery life
2. Speed
3. Software
The software one is the most solvable, with the number of tweaks, ROMs and free apps available here. I've supplemented that with a large amount of commercial software in order to get the best possible experience but this is of course very expensive to do properly.

Diamond is very good phone, i think you will never regret if you will buy one.
About problem on screen and presure ( i have that problem ), i think it comes because, when need to open back for sim card or for battery. To open back we need to press screen.

Had a diamond around 9 or 10 months now, considered buying an HD or a few other wannabees but any time I consider buying a new phone I just need to look @ my diamond & I remember why it's so damn good, It's looks haven't been matched or surpassed yet & the so called newer updated htc 1's/ other makes aren't that much better IMHO in performance etc... oh yeah & their all big fat bricks !!!
I'm sticking to my precious DIAMOND for a while yet thx
Oh & BTW that htc update has finally finally fixed it's biggest/ annoying bug, my diamond hasn't skipped an mp3 track since I installed it, I think I'll keep mine forever now hehehehe...

[Q] Are all the complaints about the HTC one actual complaints?

I've noticed a plethora of complaints, ranging from HTC being notoriously bad with updates to gaps in the body of the device. Are these complaints worth not getting the phone, or are they just from people who need to complain and are blowing it out of proportion?

ashrat3000 said:
I've noticed a plethora of complaints, ranging from HTC being notoriously bad with updates to gaps in the body of the device. Are these complaints worth not getting the phone, or are they just from people who need to complain and are blowing it out of proportion?
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Click to collapse
I've had HTC devices for 11 years (apart from a 1 year break for iPhone 3GS). Yes, the software updates are slow, and always have been. But the after-sales service from HTC is very good. I've had a few phones repaired and replaced without any issues.
As for the HTC One, I don't have any gaps in the body of the device. I'm on my second One. I returned the first one to the network due to their poor coverage and moved to another network. I wouldn't have got a second One if the first device was not the best around. It really is the best phone IMO available. The build quality is fantastic (better than Apple devices, and I love my iPad) and Sense 5 is so much smoother and nicer than Sense 4.
I think vigoos comment is an indication that all the negative comments will come from Samsung owners.

I was only using the updates and the gap as examples. Reading through the forums, there have been loads of different complaints such as static when sound effects play and the back button sensitivity (which I know is supposedly getting fixed).
My point is the number of different complaints. I'm wondering if its just a bias given that only the people who will complain about it are the ones posting when its really a non-issue. So far the phone looks amazing, I just want to make sure I'm not surprised later on down the road with problems.

Yes, every device forum is full of problems.

razor thin gaps is a NON issue, those that complain about it quote the marketing info.
I have gaps on top and bottom lol but i don't see them, cos my focus is on the insanely sharp and awesome 4.7" screen
OP, this phone is insane, go check it out, so what if you have tiny gaps, it doesn't make any difference to how you use the phone!

Id go to a store, pick up and try the phones. There arent any real issues with the one.
Its a quality device, out of all the phones i looked at, it was easily the nicest
Id also like to point out, my last 3 iphones had more imperfections than my one

ashrat3000 said:
I was only using the updates and the gap as examples. Reading through the forums, there have been loads of different complaints such as static when sound effects play and the back button sensitivity (which I know is supposedly getting fixed).
My point is the number of different complaints. I'm wondering if its just a bias given that only the people who will complain about it are the ones posting when its really a non-issue. So far the phone looks amazing, I just want to make sure I'm not surprised later on down the road with problems.
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BTW my post wasn't "aimed" at you so much just about the people who keep going on about HTC being awful when it comes to updates as it is a load of BS as pointed out by myself and other users. People simply think Samsung are far better in the update department because they were "first" to bring JB, don't know about you but there is far more to an update than just the time that it arrives. Obviously some companies take the piss when it comes to providing the update on a timely manner i.e. sony
Haven't seen many people complain about the sound, as for the capacitive buttons, that has been fixed/improved with 1.29.
I think there is a lot of confusion regarding the gap "issue" as people are expecting the one to live up to its marketing term "zero gap" but that only applies to the machined aluminium body part, the speaker covers aren't part of that process.
At the end of the day, you get a ton of paranoid people here, go on every device forum and you will see people expressing problems even the GS 4 sub forum. Also you only ever get people posting the bad stuff, hardly ever the good stuff.
There are always going to be issues with the first batch as they are rushed out and/or the manufacture process needs to be tweaked/perfected.
You get a phone that has a problem, return it for a replacement.
Considering the quality of the HTC one chassis, I would say that they have done a very good, HTC don't keep the same design for each phone and they put a lot of thought into it so to only have a few problems, as I said, they aren't even problems, simply imperfections, it is pretty impressive, Samsung have had the same design more or less since the GS 1 so have had time to perfect/improve the build quality and it is much easier to deal/work with plastic than aluminium
Good to see that HTC "might" be bringing the JB update to the sensation, should keep the HTC haters at bay regarding this area then........ (at least some of them anyway)

Rule #1, Update releases will never be fast enough for anyone in this forum.
That said I've used phones from every mfg and HTC is better than some not as good as others but they've improved IMO recently.
I would suggest buying a non-carrier branded version if you're in an area that can as those will generally get updates direct from HTC faster than a carrier branded version.
MG

It is THE ONE
ashrat3000 said:
I've noticed a plethora of complaints, ranging from HTC being notoriously bad with updates to gaps in the body of the device. Are these complaints worth not getting the phone, or are they just from people who need to complain and are blowing it out of proportion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DISCLAIMER: this ofcourse is my own personal opinion.
It's true, the updates are slow, but you'll still get them even after a year. I think HTC is pretty good at repairing/replacing malfunctioning units, no complaints there. The HTC One build quality is insane, no flaws in my unit and if there's really a gap in the body of your device, I'm 100% sure HTC will replace or fix it.
My advice: if removable storage/battery are not a big deal to you, I can honestly say the HTC One is without a doubt the best smartphone out there, you won't be dissapointed. Reviews are insanely positive, saying it's near perfection. S4 only has some more software features which I don't see my self using (and the removable storage and battery ofc).
Mod Edit: Removed a reply to a deleted post.

Thread cleaned
Tell me one thing guys: Can't anybody start a thread here without some fanbois trying to fight their wars on it?
Get a life! Nobody cares if you like your phone more than any thing else. Just stay away!
If you read the OP (if you are capable only, ofc) you will see that he didn't ask for a comparison to any other phone. So stop that nonsense. Either answer the question he posted or stay out.