Should I?
I just bought the iPhone a couple of days ago, and I am kind of disappointed. It lacks too many things to list. I know that sdk is supposed to be released in February, but I just don't think it can compare to the Tilt.
I will be using the phone to watch movies on, as I work nights, and that will help, so does the Tilt handle movies as well as the iPhone? I am not concerned with the slightly smaller screen size.
Since the Tilt is basically a mini computer, I know the abilities are endless, I am fairly decent in getting around a pc, plus the internet is a great help, but how hard is it to get rid of all the bloated crap at&t slaps on the phone?
I really like the iPhone's looks, and ease of use etc...but it just seems like it could be so much more, and I am stuck with at&t for another 2 years now, so I am just wondering should I switch to the Tilt before it's too late...
Thanks for any input!!
Michael
If you are going to use the tilt to watch movies... you shall be disappointed... read the various threads on video driver issue... it shall answer a lot of questions...
As far as movies go, I'd say it really depends on your standards of what quality a movie should be when viewed on a phone. What I mean is, I have seen many complaints of the video drivers on the Tilt. I think these must be from people who require/expect excellent quality video.
To me, movies look great on the Tilt, if you take into account, that this is a phone, not your 42" hdtv lcd, lol. They are definitely good enough to view, and pass time. Of course, again, standards of these things are so subjective, but this is just my 2 cents.
So, if you are looking to enjoy a good movie, in decent quality, then the Tilt is great, if you are looking for an amazing viewing experience, worthy of a videophile, then the Tilt will disappoint. From what I have heard, the iPhone is much better for video, although I have not verified this.
One of the greatest things about the tilt is the community you get here on xda-developers, meaning if you are ever stuck with something, these guys can (and will) help.
However, just using a tilt to watch movies is, imho, a bit of a waste. You may as well buy a cheap PDA if thats all you want. The tilt is an amazing device, full of features. And not using them would be doing the phone injustice.
Therefore, if you want a device which will: manage your photo/music/video album, navigate you, make video calls, make phone calls, send text's/emails, play games on, browse the net on, allow you to show off , get the tilt. If you want a device that will just let you play music and watch video's, stick with the jesusphone.
Edit: Oh by the way, I agree with cincy, i think movie's look spot on on the tilt.
Well to first clear up the confusion, I don't want it just to watch movies on lol...I just meant is it able to watch movies, because I work nights, and need something to pass the time with, ie watching a movie. That is just the only thing I am concerned with, I am aware of all of the other features the Tilt has to offer, and in my opinion it is in a class of it's own compared to the iPhone. I just wanted to make sure it could also play movies, so that I can combine all the features too. My other main concern is my wife's Pantech Duo, seems to me rather slow and bloated, which is what I am wondering about the Tilt. I am decent with PC's, but there are still many things I don't know, and just wanted to find out how easy it would be to clean it up to make it run more efficient.
Yes this forum is great, Apple has nothing this nice to help lol...Thanks for the replies, I have pretty much made up my mind to take the iPhone back and get the Tilt, so you shall be hearing from me again lol, for lot's of help making it work well
Well...
If you like the GUI there is an app/skin/theme for winDOS Mobile 5/6 that makes the GUI look like that of the iPhones.
http://www.iphonetheme4ppc.com/guide_QVGA/
There you go, and now that ive found it...
Im gonna install it myself!
I am an Apple MacBook pro user and love many of apples products... And i think the compatibility of the iphone and MacBook would be fantastic!
However I still prefer my Kaiser because it offers so much and isn't anywhere near as claustrophobic as the iphone with its "Apple Bluetooth" and requirement for itunes to do anything.
Dont get me wrong the iphone is nice but its a fashionable piece of Eye Candy and the Kaiser is a useful peice of engineering.
MM
PS I watch stuff on my Kaiser and playback is fine as far as i see, but there are many who loath HTC for the video drivers.
i watch movies via tcpmp during plane trips and enjoy it!
cincy1020 said:
As far as movies go, I'd say it really depends on your standards of what quality a movie should be when viewed on a phone. What I mean is, I have seen many complaints of the video drivers on the Tilt. I think these must be from people who require/expect excellent quality video.
To me, movies look great on the Tilt, if you take into account, that this is a phone, not your 42" hdtv lcd, lol. They are definitely good enough to view, and pass time. Of course, again, standards of these things are so subjective, but this is just my 2 cents.
So, if you are looking to enjoy a good movie, in decent quality, then the Tilt is great, if you are looking for an amazing viewing experience, worthy of a videophile, then the Tilt will disappoint. From what I have heard, the iPhone is much better for video, although I have not verified this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both. iPhone for my wife, Tilt for me. The video playback is night and day. I have yet to find any settings that work acceptably on the Tilt. If this is an important feature, you should look elsewhere because even if you are not a "videophile", the video is sadly disappointing.
Audio said:
Therefore, if you want a device which will: manage your photo/music/video album, navigate you, make video calls, make phone calls, send text's/emails, play games on, browse the net on, allow you to show off , get the tilt. If you want a device that will just let you play music and watch video's, stick with the jesusphone.
Edit: Oh by the way, I agree with cincy, i think movie's look spot on on the tilt.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And BTW, the web browsing is also WAY better. Again, there is just no comparison, even with Opera.
To me, the biggests problem with the iPhone is lack of 3G, no A2DP, and poor poor PIM syncing and no GPS. Strengths, video playback, multimedia syncing, speaker playback (the speakers although small, are actually quite passable and stereo), photo viewing and web browsing.
I don't play many games, but I would consider it a strength of the iPhone. Not sure about the Tilt.
As for 3rd party apps, my (very personal) opinion is there are very few "must have" apps and the one's I use on the Tilt (Resco, ImClose, AEBPlus) are all about usability and do not really apply to the iPhone. A BIG factor here is that most of the built in MS Apps basically $uck, like the photo viewer, file manager, media player, web browser, so it is almost a must to have the option to install decent apps to "replace" the built in ones. In this way, I think HTC is really doing well in mitigating the poor usability of the MS Apps. Like being able to navigate a playlist with a hardware button? No can do with Windows Media Player mobile. WTF???
You can see this even with the HTC shipped products. Their stuff is better that MS too, and many people come here to look for the HTC programs, many even cook them into ROMS.
So now I have to have room for two apps that do the same thing and it basically clutters up my device. Sort of like the 4 remotes I have to use just to watch TV at home. To me this is poor implementation.
So I am probably in the monority here, but once the iPhone supports GPS, a decent turn by turn navigation program like Tom Tom/ iGo and A2DP, and better syncing, I will be dumping my Tilt (much the same way as I have dumped MS Windows). I expect most of these features will come by the end of 2008.
Audio said:
One of the greatest things about the tilt is the community you get here on xda-developers, meaning if you are ever stuck with something, these guys can (and will) help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And if this community is SO helpful, how about sharing details on your video encoding specs, because after weeks of trying, I can't seem to find anything that works, and I have posted 3 times about it and get only a handful of responses.
memnoch_thedevil said:
Should I?
...
I will be using the phone to watch movies on, as I work nights, and that will help, so does the Tilt handle movies as well as the iPhone? I am not concerned with the slightly smaller screen size.
....
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must have a cool job where you "work" and watch videos at the same time ?!
jgermuga said:
And BTW, the web browsing is also WAY better. Again, there is just no comparison, even with Opera.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, it's only a small wait now untill Opera Mobile 9 is released (H1 of 2008 I believe) which will (apparently) be the ultimate Mobile Browser.
jgermuga said:
And if this community is SO helpful, how about sharing details on your video encoding specs, because after weeks of trying, I can't seem to find anything that works, and I have posted 3 times about it and get only a handful of responses.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not a good idea to log into a forum and show disrespect to it's other members.
As for your question, to view movies I simply use TCPMP with a few codecs (which I can't remember the names of, sorry) and videos work like a charm.
I also use Kingdia Video Converter to convert my movies to .avi (if they're not .avi already), then use Ashampoo Movie Shrink & Burn to compress the movie to QVGA size. Brilliant Quality, small File size, win win win!
imo, iPhone is a joke.
You pay for a PDA and get a fancy, bulky cell phone.
DarkDvr said:
imo, iPhone is a joke.
You pay for a PDA and get a fancy, bulky cell phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You clearly have not played with one much. The iPhone is smaller, lighter, thinner, and much more aesthetically appealing than the Tilt. In February, Apple is releasing SDK for third party Apps, and a GPS attachment (here: http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2007/12/17/gps-add-on-for-the-iphone-demonstrated-to-ship-in-february/
is supposed to be in the works as well. And I suppose not unlike the Tilt, I could always Jailbreak my iPhone, and put homebrew on it, but the iPhone was designed to be a lot harder to take care of if something goes wrong, like the battery not taking a charge any more, you would have to send it in to Apple, but you couldn't because of breaking the warranty. At least with the Tilt, you can put back what you have done to at least get repairs lol....
Audio said:
Probably not a good idea to log into a forum and show disrespect to it's other members.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By community I mean the forum in general. It is the method of communication I am speaking to not the individual members. I fully realize many people have contributed lots of work and advice, and I try to do the same when I am able, but by nature of this being an open ended forum, you don't always find answers to your questions. It can be hit or miss. It just depends sometimes if someone happens to see your post and have an answer. How is that disrespectful?
Back on point, I think this forum is helpful in learning about Windows Mobile products and sometimes getting specific questions answered. This is something also available via Apple, in addition to dedicated product support, which both Apple and HTC offer. If I were considering it as a factor in buying a product, I would score one for the Tilt, as I think this forum is better than the Apple forum, but I would score one for Apple as well because I think their dedicated support is better (stateside anyway, plus it helps I have both an official and unofficial store near me and can walk in and talk to a person).
But are you also sure there isn't another "undocumented" forum much like this one for the Apple products, because BTW HTC also has a forum which leaves a lot to be desired.
DarkDvr said:
imo, iPhone is a joke.
You pay for a PDA and get a fancy, bulky cell phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I love PPC, but obviously you must not have owned an iPhone. I switched back to Windows Mobile for technical reasons, but I have to say we're far away from the iPhone UI. PointUI has a long way to go, everything in the iPhone is connected.
I still surf with Safari, when I have free time, and sitting in front of the TV at home.
lol I just came back from the iphone myself.
Like you, I wanted it for video playback. The screen is great and video playback was smooth.
But there were too many basic things that you couldn't do even with jailbreaking the phone that just left me annoyed.
if you don't mind re-encoding your video the tilt is fine. I re-encoded all my videos to slightly smaller res and put it into an mp4 container and played it on coreplayer. Video Playback is smooth, but it could be smoother with better driver support. But I'm not complaining.
To me, the Tilt spins circles around the iphone.
memnoch_thedevil said:
Should I?
I just bought the iPhone a couple of days ago, and I am kind of disappointed. It lacks too many things to list. I know that sdk is supposed to be released in February, but I just don't think it can compare to the Tilt.
I will be using the phone to watch movies on, as I work nights, and that will help, so does the Tilt handle movies as well as the iPhone? I am not concerned with the slightly smaller screen size.
Since the Tilt is basically a mini computer, I know the abilities are endless, I am fairly decent in getting around a pc, plus the internet is a great help, but how hard is it to get rid of all the bloated crap at&t slaps on the phone?
I really like the iPhone's looks, and ease of use etc...but it just seems like it could be so much more, and I am stuck with at&t for another 2 years now, so I am just wondering should I switch to the Tilt before it's too late...
Thanks for any input!!
Michael
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure how far your computer skills go but trust me, the iPhone is more of a computer than the HTC TyTN II.
You seem to miss the point of the iPhone (the ingenius GUI/OS/touch operation), forget about the crappy EDGE and the lousy camera, this is not why people buy the iPhone.
Watching movies/listening to music is more fun with the iPhone due to the fantastic display quality.
Right now, I'm using three phones: the iPhone (hacked, has more than two dozends of third party apps installed and works like a charm), the HTC TyTN II (business stuff) and the Nokia N95 8GB (family vacations, leisure time).
My favourite is still the iPhone but I wish Apple would have offered it with UMTS/HSDPA from the start.
Infornography said:
lol I just came back from the iphone myself.
To me, the Tilt spins circles around the iphone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only when it comes to third party apps and especially data connections.
Otherwise, the iPhone is by far superior. Of course if you don't mind the sluggish GUI operation of the TyTN II, not even mentioning the ridiculous touch screen operation HTC wants to sell us as innovative, the TyTN II really is a great phone. Don't get me wrong: the iPhone lacks a lot of features but using it on a daily basis as my main phone, I like it much more than the TyTN II or the Nokia N95 8GB. I won't even mention the Nokia E90 which sleeps well in an office drawer since I got the iPhone.
The iPhone is no business phone though, no blackberry support, MS Exchange support is half-baked at best and although the mail application is the best I've ever seen on a phone, the PIM capability is somehow limited compared to other "smartphones".
There is however a catch regarding the iPhone: if you're not a regular and enthusiastic iTunes customer, the iPhone may not satisfy you completely.
The ingenius thing about the iPhone is the easy operation and for the first time finally a satisfying touch control operation.
DarkDvr said:
imo, iPhone is a joke.
You pay for a PDA and get a fancy, bulky cell phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expert speaking... *LOL*
Related
I appreciate that this is OT but I think that the more we hear about the iPhone the happier we will be with WM6. The latest news is that it will open Word and Excel attachments! More. OMG!!!!
We can all appreciate an off-topic post. Just be sure to always post in the appropriate forum. Thanks!
I would seriously buy the iPhone if I had the money and lived in the US.
http://www.dvdtoiphoneconverter.org/
TaurusBullba said:
We can all appreciate an off-topic post. Just be sure to always post in the appropriate forum. Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HAHAHAHA -- your avatar, man. I wonder if there are even 4 people on this entire forum who know what it's from.
Sincerely,
The Terror That Flaps in the Night
bobbyelliott said:
I appreciate that this is OT but I think that the more we hear about the iPhone the happier we will be with WM6. The latest news is that it will open Word and Excel attachments! More. OMG!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would be ecstatically happy with WM6 if someone would just come up with a fingertip interface for it that was consistent.
What there needs to be is a new line of WM6 (or WM7, I guess) that supports the current pen-oriented UI as well as a new, sensible touch-oriented UI. I got really excited about the iPhone when I heard about it, as I am a Mac user, but then became profoundly disappointed when I found out that there would be no SDK. As WM developers, we can write just about anything we want for our phones, but iPhone users are restricted to only what Steve Jobs thinks they should be allowed to do. It's incredibly frustrating.
shogunmark said:
that was around me era of being a kid... im a bit suspicious that mike knows what its from considering his a really really really old guy
oh... and BOO iphone... piece of junk... thats my .02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats ok.. if he wants to waste $600 USD on a 3 maybe 4 year old technology then thats his choice shogunmark
just because it has a pretty screen doesnt put it even close up against the Hermes, Trinity etc...
pspconverter
Apple doesn’t want to confuse its customers.
http://www.pspconverter.com/iphone_converter/
walshieau said:
thats ok.. if he wants to waste $600 USD on a 3 maybe 4 year old technology then thats his choice shogunmark
just because it has a pretty screen doesnt put it even close up against the Hermes, Trinity etc...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HTC Smartphones are hardly cutting edge. 624MHz Xscale? Helloooo, 2004.
We use good products with HTC. The iPhone will be good for a lot of people too; it's not the age of technology, but how it is implemented that counts. I bet the iPhone's camera isn't laggy like the one on my Athena, and it crashes less than my Universal, and doesn't have call/end buttons right under where your fingers are.
There's more to a successful product than just "technology". iPhone isn't for me, I want power and can live with the glitches of WM and HTC devices. There's room in the market for iPhones and Smartphones, and Apple will have done a good job with the user interface and overall usability of the device.
RichardKAthena said:
The HTC Smartphones are hardly cutting edge. 624MHz Xscale? Helloooo, 2004.
We use good products with HTC. The iPhone will be good for a lot of people too; it's not the age of technology, but how it is implemented that counts. I bet the iPhone's camera isn't laggy like the one on my Athena, and it crashes less than my Universal, and doesn't have call/end buttons right under where your fingers are.
There's more to a successful product than just "technology". iPhone isn't for me, I want power and can live with the glitches of WM and HTC devices. There's room in the market for iPhones and Smartphones, and Apple will have done a good job with the user interface and overall usability of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The difference between a WM device and the iPhone is that you can do pretty much whatever you want with a WM device. With the iPhone you are restricted to what Steve tells you you want.
I have a feeling it's going to stay this way, too. Look at the iPod. Years later the best thing you can do with it is buy games from iTunes.
I hope I'm wrong.
starkruzr said:
Look at the iPod. Years later the best thing you can do with it is buy games from iTunes.
I hope I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You are.
I mean, just above, you are.
It's an iPod. A portable music player. The best thing you can do with it is play music; which it does very well. Better than any Creative or Sandisk devices I've used, better than every alternative I've tried. The iPod + iTunes combination works a LOT better for organising and accessing your music. I don't care if you can't make it make the tea and access GPS whilst it repairs your car. It is exceptionally good at what it is supposed to do.
Of course, bashing the iPod, or slagging off the as yet unreleased iPhone, is really cool and against the grain. Really helps to understand what you're being negative about, though.
See, I don't think the tech matters one bit, either to the fans or detractors.
The fans expect the iPhone to work brilliantly at being a phone and music player.
The detractors wouldn't care if it had 3.5G, 80GB and cost $5. They just don't like - for whatever reason - seeing Apple (and to be fair, pretty much anyone) be a success.
Go figure. I use and advocate WM devices. I use and advocate iPod. I use Macs and have done for 23 years. I also use Windows, and was quite a fan of Windows 2000 when it came out (and before OS X showed up).
Best tool for the job. Don't care WHO makes it. Apple make some very good stuff, which is why they have a loyal folllowing. Yes, people will buy iPhone because of he hype, but I bet it turns out to be a well designed, functional phone. It'll also be vastly more interesting when it becomes iPhone version 3.
Its not windows users that started the bad mouthing. When Jobs says the open platform of windows is unstable and could bring a network down he is starting it. WM is not unstable. I use it constantly with no problems. There is no way to bring down a phone network with a WM device. The network just plain will not let bad info through. I have tried to mess with everything possible on a wm device connecting to a phone network and it is just not possible to adversely effect it.
People who claim that wm is unstable are the same people installing home made apps of sites like this or downloading cracked software from bittorrent. I have no problem with those things but you get what you pay for.
I also must be heavily anti iphone because I am a developer. Jobs has refused developers access to the iphone. Remember that apple was the company that made developers pay for the privilege to program for the original pda, the Newton. Microsoft let us do it for nothing. Apple is anti me.
I hope the iphone is a failure and it sinks apple or they choose to open it, either way is ok with me.
Your argument about the ipod is less than convincing. This is a world of convergence - life made easier by having everything in one place. If I go by your rational I will need to go back to the days of carrying a separate phone, pda and gps. Apple know that the days of single use devices are comming to an end or they would not be taking this gamble. Its also probably the reason no further development in new video ipods has been seen.
OdeeanRDeathshead said:
Its not windows users that started the bad mouthing. When Jobs says the open platform of windows is unstable and could bring a network down he is starting it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is this, Kindergarten? "He started it!". WM as an open platform IS unstable. Look at the amount of trouble people have with it. Look at the number of newbie posts on here saying they've messed up their handsets. It all depends on your value of "stable".
MS/HTC has absolutely no control over what people put on their handsets. It's great. I love it. I also regularly try apps which utterly break the handset, sometimes ones which SHOULD work, because of the variations in the hardware.
"Could bring a network down" - without context, I can neither agree nor disagree. Supporting the newbies with buggy software, sure. Technology wise? Bollocks. WM devices may be variable "phones", but they do work most of the time.
WM is not unstable. I use it constantly with no problems. There is no way to bring down a phone network with a WM device. The network just plain will not let bad info through. I have tried to mess with everything possible on a wm device connecting to a phone network and it is just not possible to adversely effect it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In that context I agree with you.
People who claim that wm is unstable are the same people installing home made apps of sites like this or downloading cracked software from bittorrent. I have no problem with those things but you get what you pay for.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Or buying CorePlayer and finding it doesn't work correctly, or buying games from the online Handago store and finding they don't handle screen rotation correctly, or buying MS Voice Commander and finding it doesn't correctly replace the phone's own voice tagging applications...
Third party software doesn't have to be "dodgy" to break the handset. Cracked copies of software are frequently fine, likewise, legitimate software can be buggy. It's the fact that the range and variety of devices makes destructive testing near impossible.
Ever used a Palm? Even though the Palm's original OS was small and almost "single platform", I had to reset my Tungsten C constantly, and the Vx I had before that. Inevitably due to third party apps.
Now. I personally WANT the apps. I don't mind rebooting my phone, or having to uninstall something, or make two copies because TomTom can't see voices on the SD card but is slow on Microdrive. I don't mind this, I'm fairly used to it, I like to experiment.
Do I think it's a good user experience. HELL no.
I also must be heavily anti iphone because I am a developer. Jobs has refused developers access to the iphone. Remember that apple was the company that made developers pay for the privilege to program for the original pda, the Newton. Microsoft let us do it for nothing. Apple is anti me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Newton failed. And I can hardly call Visual Studio and the CE development kits "free". Trial versions exist, but in a time-limited form.
I hope the iphone is a failure and it sinks apple or they choose to open it, either way is ok with me.
Your argument about the ipod is less than convincing. This is a world of convergence - life made easier by having everything in one place.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fine. Make me an Ameo which works reliably, has phone-like battery life, an 80GB HD so it has the capacity of my iPod, is small enough to clip on my shirt like a shuffle, has a 5" screen for watching movies on...
Convergence makes sense to a degree. Devices which do it all are compromised. iPod is an EXCELLENT music player and organiser. I don't want it to be anything else. I don't like the way WM handles files on the Ameo, or any of the alternatives; iTunes is very good at what it does. If my Ameo worked with iTunes - iTunes for Pocket PC, with sync from my desktop library - then I'd perhaps be happier with it. But basically no convergence device does everything well.
Apple will get phone calling and WiFi right. Missing out 3G is stupid and short sighted for a web-phone. But the user interface and build quality will be very suited for the real world applications of the device.
If I go by your rational I will need to go back to the days of carrying a separate phone, pda and gps. Apple know that the days of single use devices are comming to an end or they would not be taking this gamble. Its also probably the reason no further development in new video ipods has been seen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two devices together works well for me. I personally like to see music separate - give me phone/PDA with GPS functions, or GPS/Music together. Phone and PDA functions blur anyway. PDA=contacts, appointments - big ol' Filofax. It's natural to link these.
As for third-party apps on the iPhone, I'm ambivalent. If Apple get it right, it won't need any to speak of. The technology isn't interesting enough to push. I'm more interested in what appears - to all intents and purposes - to be OS X on an ARM device.
An OS X PDA would kick arse, IMO. But then you WOULD need third party apps. OS X on Ameo-like hardware? Bring it on.
About that $950 iPhone. You didn't accept or decline my wager. Chicken? Not so confident that the $950 price is correct?
I've been a Windows developer since 1999 - so I hate Apple (bad developer support, proprietary, apart from osx..) and I will naturally hate the iphone. However the iphone is good for the whole mobiles scene. Shakes it up a bit. All the stuff is gimmicky and fairly useless (examples 1. flipping through 100 albums with your fingers? 2. Drag to unlock that needs two hands, 3. the icons on the today screen showing "you have 2 appointments" ..errr.. when? The screen that will obviously break at the slightest contact with the ground - too close to the edge). The list is really endless. The thing I love best is the keyboard they show to type text messages with - its far too small to use with fingers!! Get a stylus dudes!
iphone is a device for current macintosh customers. In which case they'll sell quite a few! I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh and slagging it off, as any self-respecting apple-hater should do!
jellyme said:
I've been a Windows developer since 1999 - so I hate Apple (bad developer support, proprietary, apart from osx..)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rapidly increasing market share, opinion formed in 1999 based on Diesel's legacy of frankly outmoded hardware and an operating system that made Windows ME look stable, proprietary "Intel" hardware, OS X /is/ Apple as far as development are concerned, very good developer support now via ADC, tools included with every OS X installation...
The first sign of intelligence is evolution. Sure, feel free to hate Apple (hating a corporation is very smart, after all), but try and do so for the right reasons, before you cut off a large market for your products.
RichardKAthena said:
WM as an open platform IS unstable. Look at the amount of trouble people have with it. Look at the number of newbie posts on here saying they've messed up their handsets. It all depends on your value of "stable".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry, but I've got to take exception at that statement. To me it reads:-
"windows is an unstable os because - people muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand"
and
"the iPhone will have good os because - people can't muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand, because apple won't let them"
If MS made their ppcs so that the consumers couldn't add programs to it, your argument wouldn't exist.
and how many users (not including people working for the same company) use the exact same setup?
bbobeckyj said:
Sorry, but I've got to take exception at that statement. To me it reads:-
"windows is an unstable os because - people muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand"
and
"the iPhone will have good os because - people can't muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand, because apple won't let them"
If MS made their ppcs so that the consumers couldn't add programs to it, your argument wouldn't exist.
and how many users (not including people working for the same company) use the exact same setup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
iPhone will not be so locked down that it cannot be personalised. However, you are misinterpreting and misquoting what I said. I don't know how stable the iPhone OS is, and I'm not referring to the stability of the OS.
I'm referring to the stability of the user experience.
Now, my gut feeling (based on the quality of the phone applications in the HTC devices I've used compared to Symbian, SE and Motorola devices) is that in look and feel, user experience and reliability, beating WM would be like shooting fish in a barrel. It works, sure, but it is not pretty, it is not consistent, and it is not reliable. Just witness the caller ID mess on Bluetooth. This isn't a "WM is crap WHAAA" post, it's just an objective observation; you will note that I USE A WM5 AND WM6 DEVICE. By choice. I am aware of the options, and of course I'd like things to be better, but it does the job and the hardware offers a lot of advantages.
Now, if you're really interpreting it the way you say you are, then I suggest you read more closely. I thoroughly expect people to skim the post, see "iPhone good, WM bad", and respond - even though I simply being objective and acknowledging the faults and benefits of BOTH platforms. iPhone is going to succeed, and it's going to do that largely on hype and marketing, but that's not to say that Apple won't have got some things right, because that's what they do. They didn't come to dominate the music player market by producing a product which had all the flaws of the competition with none of the benefits; they polished it and got it right.
HTC make lovely hardware. It runs alright with WM. Give it a better OS and it would be amazing. Is there really any logical reason why the camera on the Ameo is so woefully slow? The call/end buttons on the Universal are positioned RIGHT where your fingers rest if you use it as a phone and have no distinquishing features when not lit? These devices do not have the depth and quality of industrial design that Apple employs in their consumer devices.
What trade do people want to make? Do they want their music library dragged together by Windows Media, including the ringtones it finds on the HD, or do they want iTunes "plug and play" simplicity (and if anyone wants to slag off iTunes, trust me - I have heard all the criticisms before. The ones I'll accept are that it's a bit slow with large libraries, and it doesn't handle a wide range of codecs by default - I've used every device from Archos to Zen and nothing touches an iPod for sheer intuitive behaviour, or iTunes for genuinely maintaining an organised, logical music library).
I will never use itunes because when on it communicates over the internet even if I set it not to. A lot of apps do this of course but with itunes the connectivity is needed so blocking it is not an option. I need to trust that my system is working for me and not apple. If that same problem was on the iphone then because you can't write a firewall for it your privacy is gone.
My employer has over 10000 wm devices and they operate for weeks at a time with no resetting. They get software updates remotely and are mainly used by non technical users. I personaly use these to work with and I have not been able to crash one. We drop them and get them dirty but still they run. Is that unstable.
I would not gamble with you because you seem like a nut to me and I would not want to exchange details with you.
(This post was done using the real keyboard , from a park bench, over 3g, on my dopod 838 pro. Something I will never be able to do with an iphone!)
OdeeanRDeathshead said:
I will never use itunes because when on it communicates over the internet even if I set it not to. A lot of apps do this of course but with itunes the connectivity is needed so blocking it is not an option. I need to trust that my system is working for me and not apple. If that same problem was on the iphone then because you can't write a firewall for it your privacy is gone.
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What absolute, total, drivel. My son uses iTunes on his iMac, has no internet connection whatsoever, and it works perfectly. He can rip CDs, but has to type the track/artist detail in unless it is included (which is very rare), can sync the iPod, etc. He's been doing this for nearly 2 years.
My employer has over 10000 wm devices and they operate for weeks at a time with no resetting. They get software updates remotely and are mainly used by non technical users. I personaly use these to work with and I have not been able to crash one. We drop them and get them dirty but still they run. Is that unstable.
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Click to collapse
I'm fully aware that these things are stable. Again, I'm talking about end-user experience. Employers with 10,000 identical devices (I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and say "courier services" or "retail" - something along the lines of Intermec handheld data terminals) will generally have specified the software set on the device, it will be limited, and it will be predictable and tested.
I would not gamble with you because you seem like a nut to me and I would not want to exchange details with you.
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Click to collapse
*snorts* Whatever. I like to talk about this stuff seriously, I've been using mobile devices of one form or another since the Tandy 102. You interpret me writing so much about it as being a nut? I interpret it as being the reason I'm paid to review hardware professionally. (I'll post pictures of my latest toys soon, one of them will be very interesting I think).
(This post was done using the real keyboard , from a park bench, over 3g, on my dopod 838 pro. Something I will never be able to do with an iphone!)
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Good for you. Now listen to 7.34GB of music on it for 24 hours without having to recharge. I was posting to Usenet in 1998 from an HP 680LX connected with an Option One GSM datacard; I could make calls on it if I used the wired headset. It's hardly new technology in any sense of the word - each device is merely refining and targeting a specific user base.
This is what you seem to be failing to grasp. iPhone is not inherently bad. It's just not what YOU want. It's not even that expensive; an unsubsidised N73 costs... $500. And it doesn't do many consumer level things that the iPhone does, despite being targeted at that very market.
I may be a nut, but at least I know WTF I'm talking about and don't have an irrational hatred of one company
RichardKAthena said:
It's an iPod. A portable music player. The best thing you can do with it is play music; which it does very well.
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Yes, and the line from iPhone fans about the iPhone is "it's a phone, iPod and breakthrough internet device. The best thing you can do with it make phone calls, play music and use Safari, which it does very well." This is not sufficient for me, for starters. And Steve's explanation of his "sweet solution" for developing "applications" for the iPhone was a joke and an insult to developers.
Apple is telling its customers to pay $500 for a UI. My TYTN can already do everything the iPhone can do, sans the flashy UI, plus MORE -- UMTS/HSDPA, for starters. It can also run any particular binaries you choose to run on it.
Of course, bashing the iPod, or slagging off the as yet unreleased iPhone, is really cool and against the grain. Really helps to understand what you're being negative about, though.
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You think you've got me pegged, but you don't. I am typing this post on my Macbook Pro. For the most part, I love Apple and what they've done with computing. But Steve is taking the company in this "closed device" direction that really, really turns me off. When we were told OS X was essentially UNIX with an Apple GUI, as a geek I got really, really excited, and when I finally got my Mac, Tiger did NOT let me down.
OS X is an excellent example of how the Apple way has, for the last 7 years, been to cater both to nontechnical users and heavily technical users alike. This is what I was expecting from an Apple cell phone. I was, essentially, expecting an OS X PDA phone. This is not AT ALL what we are getting. You can't even cut and paste, ffs!
See, I don't think the tech matters one bit, either to the fans or detractors.
The fans expect the iPhone to work brilliantly at being a phone and music player.
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I'm sure they do. And it will. And all of the enormous hardware potential of the iPhone will be utterly wasted.
The detractors wouldn't care if it had 3.5G, 80GB and cost $5. They just don't like - for whatever reason - seeing Apple (and to be fair, pretty much anyone) be a success.
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Again, you've got me wrong. I don't care about any of that. I would gladly pay $699 for an iPhone that was actually released with an SDK. Why? I want my Terminal. I want my Adium (or something like it). I want ssh, VNC, VLC, Skype, the GNU toolset, and anything else I want, because there is simply no compelling reason to disallow any of it. The only reason any of this is not possible is Apple's incredibly restrictive software, and the only reason Apple's software restrictions exist is AT&T's greed.
I think the iPhone will be enormously successful, but I have serious doubts Apple will ever meet my needs for a smartphone (or the needs of many, many other potential customers out there).
I call you a nut because you are trying to bet me 50 dollars over the details of an unreleased gadget and because you are so emotionally tied to the idea of the iphone that you can't stop.
I was happy to wait and see back on page one but you just can't stop defending a seemingly inferior product that you don't even have.
I don't trust Apple or microsoft. A phone carries a lot of personal information that could be very damaging in the wrong hands. My point about itunes is that with no third party apps, the iphone will not be safe because any program that apple put on it will be free to do what it wants.
Its like Nokia says, "this is what the pc has become". How many people would trust their microsoft onecare more than their norton or other security suit? Now what about trusting security to no one because their won't be any on an iphone. Just look at the 100 plus security bowser problems patched by apple last week. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
The whole discussion is pointless anyway because we do not have one and by next month it will be hacked to run third party apps anyway like apple tv.
Hi All,
I currently own an HTC magician. I want a new phone with everything the magician has plus GPS, WIFI, more RAM, and a keyboard. The only phone I found that comes close is the Kaiser, but I've heard such bad things about the video driver problem.
Video is not the biggest issue for me, but should I not buy the phone and support HTC who refuses to cooperate?
Do I have any other options with those specs?
Thanks,
Daniel
I have a Kaiser and I am very happy with it, because I can do so much with it. However if a bit of lag annoys you greatly it may not be for you.
Surur
NO. Wait some time whether the issue get resolved. Its not only the video - the whole phone is slow. You can not browse, rotating you screen. If i make a call with skype, the phone is really very slow and if i slide the keyboard and the screen orientation switches it can take up to minute to be updated - with nothing in background and free mem - only skype running. And until it switches you cant hang up, change the volume...nothing.
To be honest, i regret buying the Kaiser. And if i see how fast a cheap HiPhone can be, omg!
I wonder how HTC can have this on their webpage: More powerful than anything you've seen before, the HTC TyTN II takes communications to the next level.
You have to be blind a live 5years back, for the slogan to be true...
I bought it mainly because of the 3g and wifi and wm6... but there are better solutions then this for 520 euro...
Beware!
wait for kaiser fix
If video is not heavily used, buy it now. I bought it recently and like it very mcuh. But higher performance is still demanded...
fredbred said:
I bought it mainly because of the 3g and wifi and wm6... but there are better solutions then this for 520 euro...
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better device with 3g, wifi, and wm6? like what?
get the kaiser...it's no slower then any other wm6 device out there and although yes it would be nice if we could play more games, normal res video runs perfectly fine.
fredbred said:
NO. Wait some time whether the issue get resolved. Its not only the video - the whole phone is slow. You can not browse, rotating you screen. If i make a call with skype, the phone is really very slow and if i slide the keyboard and the screen orientation switches it can take up to minute to be updated - with nothing in background and free mem - only skype running. And until it switches you cant hang up, change the volume...nothing.
To be honest, i regret buying the Kaiser. And if i see how fast a cheap HiPhone can be, omg!
I wonder how HTC can have this on their webpage: More powerful than anything you've seen before, the HTC TyTN II takes communications to the next level.
You have to be blind a live 5years back, for the slogan to be true...
I bought it mainly because of the 3g and wifi and wm6... but there are better solutions then this for 520 euro...
Beware!
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Click to collapse
This may all be true if you're still using the stock ROM. There are some really smokin' cooked ROMs out there that really speed things up and make the Kaiser a truly enjoyable device.
One other thing, show me a PC that doesn't slow down once in awhile. That's what defrag is for.
Delta_flyer said:
One other thing, show me a PC that doesn't slow down once in awhile. That's what defrag is for.
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So you equate flashing a cooked ROM with clicking the "Defrag" button? One is a feature built into the operating system, the other can void your warranty and potentially brick your device. They're nowhere near the same thing.
I'm telling everybody I know to avoid HTC like the plague. Not so much directly because of the video issues, but because of their lack of accountability. They deliberately released a crippled device in hopes that nobody would notice, and are now working on some half-assed "fix" only because of the publicity that was generated by the XDA community.
Get one. I was in the same boat hesitating about the drivers. I am glad i made my decision. I upgraded from a 8525. Glad i did i have everything i need in one device. GPS Wifi, processing power. Im not sure what the full potential of this chip is supposed to be but its fast. I actually got mine refurbished from att about a month ago. After using it i ended up buying another one today for my wife and paying full price. Im not disatisfied. Definatly waht i would expect out of a 400 dollar phone.
Like most answers, it lives in the question.
"Because of Video Problems". Do you need or want to view videos not converted to 320x240 resolution? If you do need or want that that from your new expensive mobile device, then pass. ---- NO KAISER FOR YOU!
If you want a snappy interface and quick file browsing experience, then wait for the HTC "fixes". But still forget lag-free video at source resolutions above 320x240. ---------- > Get a Kaiser, and hope you can fix it.
Do you want fancy graphical VGA games or anything 3D? Forget the Kaiser.
Do you want a Windows Mobile 6 device that has real GPS, WiFi, 3G, Edge, 2 cameras (one for video calls, one for decent pics), querty keyboard, and bluetooth? And are able to put up with the device doing NONE of those things particularly well, then ----> Get a Kaiser.
I have a Kaiser. I live through its quirks. Its a fun device depending on your definition of "fun".
Do I regret paying $850+ for my device even knowing I was an early adopter? Yes. The device advertised was not the device delivered.
Would I discourage others from buying it at a $200 USD price point? No.
But then again, its up to you and what you expect from your device.
With Schap's ROM (4.31) and Coreplayer 1.2 i needn't a fix for "video pb"
I don't play 3D game.
Do not listen to most of what the naysayers have to say here. I have an iMate K-Jam and now I have an HTC TyTN II. I have done many comparison tests between the two devices. The TyTN II wins HANDS DOWN!!!
Driver problems? What driver problems? I have yet to find any lag on any video except maybe a bit on the camcorder app, but that's not a big issue. I watch full feature movies on Coreplayer and I have used TCPMP and WM Player with wayyyyyyyy BETTER performance than on my K-Jam!!!
Don't even think about it, go right ahead and buy a TyTN II, you will not regret it. Problem is most people drag these devices through their backsides and then they complain about this and that. They replace roms, install and uninstall all sorts of crap and then they wonder why it's acting up!!!
I have had my TyTN II since the 15th January this year and I have not experienced any of the so-called problems mentioned by some in this forum. OK, the battery does get used up quicker, but then again it has so much packed in and you can get 3000 mAH batteries now!!!
This sub-forum (Kaiser) is more like the Cheese & Whine forum!!!
BUY IT!!!!
Hey is this a HTC deHey is this a HTC dealer Thread?
The TyTN isn’t a finished device. There are much more bugs and “features” which should be avoid.
1 Video – its really slow. I don’t mind games, I even don’t watch video , because I have other devices for this, but if I wan to scroll the internet page, that’s not the speed I have never seen before! Why takes it so long to switch between portrait and landscape?
And the video from the camera I also pretty slow.
2 Speed – I have used a Fujitsu siemens n560. It was MUCH faster even if it was older and has 64mb ram.
3 The keyboard – this was one of the features why I have chosen tytn. But why they do not think if the do anything. Omg where is the ctrl key? How can you copy and paste? I have always to use the pen for it. No they put rather a key for opening the explorer, which I have used twice so far. And why have I to use the fn key to write a comma? And do you like the style of the keys? Its not even possible to write comfortably the last row of keys if you bent the display? And why are the functions of the keys doubled? Its for disabled people or maybe if you bite off some finger bored from waiting? I would expect that I can configure every key not to have three key for OK two for enter…
And maybe try to write any non-English letter – no we are in the world where no others languages exist.
I tell you, they are not selling what they are telling – What you have been told is not what you get.
What is good – the speed of gps starting, If you use quick gps.
Have a look how fast a under $200 device can be! Put Hiphone in youtube and you will know how fast the screen should react and switch.
Its not only about the damn driver, the parts of the phone are not finished. Not if the producer tells you: It’s the best you can get...
fredbred said:
Hey is this a HTC deHey is this a HTC dealer Thread?
The TyTN isn’t a finished device. There are much more bugs and “features” which should be avoid.
1 Video – its really slow. I don’t mind games, I even don’t watch video , because I have other devices for this, but if I wan to scroll the internet page, that’s not the speed I have never seen before! Why takes it so long to switch between portrait and landscape?
And the video from the camera I also pretty slow.
2 Speed – I have used a Fujitsu siemens n560. It was MUCH faster even if it was older and has 64mb ram.
3 The keyboard – this was one of the features why I have chosen tytn. But why they do not think if the do anything. Omg where is the ctrl key? How can you copy and paste? I have always to use the pen for it. No they put rather a key for opening the explorer, which I have used twice so far. And why have I to use the fn key to write a comma? And do you like the style of the keys? Its not even possible to write comfortably the last row of keys if you bent the display? And why are the functions of the keys doubled? Its for disabled people or maybe if you bite off some finger bored from waiting? I would expect that I can configure every key not to have three key for OK two for enter…
And maybe try to write any non-English letter – no we are in the world where no others languages exist.
I tell you, they are not selling what they are telling – What you have been told is not what you get.
What is good – the speed of gps starting, If you use quick gps.
Have a look how fast a under $200 device can be! Put Hiphone in youtube and you will know how fast the screen should react and switch.
Its not only about the damn driver, the parts of the phone are not finished. Not if the producer tells you: It’s the best you can get...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
which is why you should try a cooked rom. the internet scrolling thing u mention? its a bug in pie, there;s a fix for that......if you decide to stick to pie, cause lets face it, pie is a pile of **** anyways. try opera mini or mobile. oh and btw......i did get my tilt for under $200
as for the OPs question, there are tons of posts here about the performance of these devices (you might also want to look in the upgrading section to see the performance of cooked roms) and I'm not gonna dd anymore to it. At the end of the day, you are the one who has to make the decision, and you are the one who will be using this device, my advice to you is just choose wisely......i took the jump and got it even after hearing about the video issues, and i never regretted it.
Just get a Kaiser and wait till end of March when the drivers will be released.
MACkjam said:
Do not listen to most of what the naysayers have to say here. I have an iMate K-Jam and now I have an HTC TyTN II. I have done many comparison tests between the two devices. The TyTN II wins HANDS DOWN!!!
Driver problems? What driver problems? I have yet to find any lag on any video except maybe a bit on the camcorder app, but that's not a big issue. I watch full feature movies on Coreplayer and I have used TCPMP and WM Player with wayyyyyyyy BETTER performance than on my K-Jam!!!
Don't even think about it, go right ahead and buy a TyTN II, you will not regret it. Problem is most people drag these devices through their backsides and then they complain about this and that. They replace roms, install and uninstall all sorts of crap and then they wonder why it's acting up!!!
I have had my TyTN II since the 15th January this year and I have not experienced any of the so-called problems mentioned by some in this forum. OK, the battery does get used up quicker, but then again it has so much packed in and you can get 3000 mAH batteries now!!!
This sub-forum (Kaiser) is more like the Cheese & Whine forum!!!
BUY IT!!!!
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Click to collapse
If you buy this phone you'll be taking a risk. It may be a small risk depending on what you'll have to pay, but a risk nonetheless of not being satisfied. At least you will have made your choice in good conscience and aware of the situation. Truth is we shouldn't have to compare this device to much older ones and say it's better. It shouldn't warrant a comparison at all but since it does there is obviously a problem. There are those that will tell you their TyTN II is "SUPER ACCEPTABLE!" but that's hardly the point. I didn't buy this thing believing it would have acceptable performance. This device is supposed to kick ass and we believe it would if it used the complete architecture of the chip inside. I got mine for $700 and my plan here on out is to just grin and bear it. There isn't an alternative device available yet and HTC has us over the fence on this thing. The anticipated fix is not going to address our concern of enabling the second core of the chip we paid for. I can confirm for you my experiences with the TyTN II and keep in mind this is before I 'dragged it through my backside' by flashing the ROM. (By the way why in the world would it matter whether it's been flashed or how many times programs have been installed/uninstalled?)
- Video playback is fine if my source is 320 X 240. I have always re-encoded my video anyway in an effort to save space and optimize everything. For this reason I didn't know there was a video playback problem right away.
- The camera is almost unusable. I have turned on the on-screen fps display and in sunlight I get ~18fps, in ambient light make that ~4fps and if it's semi dark forget about it. This effects taking pictures and taking video. The video I shoot ends up looking like a blurry mess and any picture I take better be of a stationary subject or else I will usually miss the shot. Interestingly enough the device takes great photos though.
- Screen rotation is a sore subject. I want the thing to be fluid but instead I have to watch it redraw slowly and in seperate pieces.
- Scrolling - it isn't certain that scrolling problem is a result of the missing drivers. I have to say that scrolling isn't very good but there is a fix on this forum to make it more reasonable.
- GPS works great, I've never had an issue with it although it kills the battery fast. Especially fast when using Google maps or live search because then you have the active GPRS data session combined with the gps.
- Battery life - I have a 1600mAH bat and I have to charge it every day but then again I auto download podcasts and such so I am partially to blame. As I understand it the drivers would increase battery life.
That's about it from me. Sorry this post is so long, let me wrap it up. I don't think anyone can tell you to buy or not to buy. You'll just have to make a decision yourself. At least it will be an informed decision, unlike mine.
word
"Video is not the biggest issue for me, but should I not buy the phone and support HTC who refuses to cooperate?"
With all due respect to all you guys complaining about video drivers.. STFU! already.
No one complained until one geeky ass dude bought it up. I have no problems playing my movies on my device or streaming it via orb.com. I get no lag and for god sakes it's a mobile phone not a computer. It surpasses most devices to date. I have no complaint about this phone. This is like my 40th something phone that I've had being that I work for AT&T and they provide me with devices. When the update comes people will still be *****ing about the video drivers. What exactly are you guys trying to watch? Live video feeds from Mars!?
Seriously get the phone you will not be disappointed. For the record my device does not lag when I slide the screen, etc. I've installed Schaps 4.31 best looking ROM to date. Haven't found another ROM that made me want to change.
even with no video drivers, it's still the best branded phone in the US. theres nothing better. (yet)
gqstatus0685 said:
"Video is not the biggest issue for me, but should I not buy the phone and support HTC who refuses to cooperate?"
With all due respect to all you guys complaining about video drivers.. STFU! already.
No one complained until one geeky ass dude bought it up. I have no problems playing my movies on my device or streaming it via orb.com. I get no lag and for god sakes it's a mobile phone not a computer. It surpasses most devices to date. I have no complaint about this phone. This is like my 40th something phone that I've had being that I work for AT&T and they provide me with devices. When the update comes people will still be *****ing about the video drivers. What exactly are you guys trying to watch? Live video feeds from Mars!?
Seriously get the phone you will not be disappointed. For the record my device does not lag when I slide the screen, etc. I've installed Schaps 4.31 best looking ROM to date. Haven't found another ROM that made me want to change.
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AMEN TO THAT BROTHER!!!!! I couldn't agree more with you!!!
I think that people expect to dial to Pluto with live feeds from the nethergalaxy and back!!!
gqstatus0685 said:
...I work for AT&T...
I've installed Schaps 4.31 best looking ROM to date. Haven't found another ROM that made me want to change.
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Click to collapse
Awesome! So it is the official AT&T position that we should all install cooked ROMs on our Tilts? Is that what you tell your customers? And it won't void the warranty? That's fantastic news.
Can you please post your store number and employee ID number so your statement can be confirmed with AT&T corporate? Thanks!
I'm currently using an N95 classic. Yes it's received a lot of critisicm since its release, it's not touchscreen, it doesn't have a qwerty keyboard and everyone seems to have one....but is this popularity just down to a mammoth marketing strategy or is there more to the N95 than meets the eye?
I've owned a TyTn 2 - albeit briefly - and found it pretty lame.
I'd like someone to tell me just what makes the TyTn2 better than the N95, and why I should perhaps reconsider - I do after all have a £250 Cex voucher with which I could easily purchase another TyTn 2 if you can sway me.
IS THERE ANYTHING FANTASTIC ON THE TyTn2 WHICH ISN'T AVAILABLE - IN ANY FORM - ON THE SYMBIAN PLATFORM?
It is worth mentioning that a good camera is important to me, as is multimedia playback. I'm not bothered about modding my today screen beyond changing a theme (this is completely unimportant to me) nor OS-specific yorkshire pudding timer applications/ gps applications that tell you where your golf ball is - just critical applications for things like Satellite navigation, photography, browsing, video players, wireless applications and desktop-replacement tools.
AND YES I KNOW THE KAISER HAS A QWERTY KEYBOARD.
I'm going off the two-handed qwerty input system on mobile devices - actually I quite like T9, and for long-winded essays or emails you can whip out a buetooth keyboard for use with most modern phones.....
So tell me where I'm going wrong, and why I should head straight to Cex tomorrow and get a Kaiser.
symbian platform doesnt exceed where windows mobile does
dyetheskin said:
symbian platform doesnt exceed where windows mobile does
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That doesn't really help me. Exceed where? Elaborate, or else your comment will just come across as an unfounded sweeping statement
^
^
example: Wm give you more freedom in customization . More detail example : Change the radio to fit your network and location. Dont forget that you can brew your own beer , I mean , cook your own Rom with a fair amount of knowledge.
Why N95 is so popular ? Its a Nokia . when peep talk about cell phones, they will at least mention the holy word "Nokia" once. HTC What ? Only dedicated users know about this brand. Nokia is one of the first Cell phone brand out there, and they have very wide range of products which meet larger demand than HTC. Symbian platform is also more user (noob) friendly , 10 years old kid can use a Nokia any time. If you hand them a Kaiser , they probably cry for mommy
Just like peeps in here, I can afford a iphone or a N95, but I still go for the Kaiser. There is a minor factor in my decision : seeing everyone around you ( and their grandmoms ) using the same phone ( iphone, N95 ... ) is not cool. Being up to the trend is cool , but being on top of the trend ( aka : rarity, unique ) is pimped . Thats why in US peep pay hefty for ****ty phones like LG prada cuz they are pimped and rare.
I changed my sliding keyboard sound to starcraft seige tank sound. Everytime I pop it out , someone "stop and stare " . I know that N95 can slide in 2 ways , but my screen can tilt 40 degree , which is more eye popping in my opinion.
Both brands got pros and cons . In the end of the day , it all depends on your flavor. We have a private joke iphone is for chick sex appeal. and Kaiser is for men in black ( with muscle ) .
If a camera is important to you than i'd suggest sticking with the n95.. or better yet, grab an n82.
I've been using windows mobile for a while now (made the switch from symbian in about '01) But my brothers all have nokias (one has the n95, the other has the black n95 (4gig or something like that) and another has the n82.. i know big family). And we kinda compete over what i can do with windows mobile and what they can do with their symbian devices.. somehow i always win with the wow factor
The reason i'm with windows mobile is because of its compatibility with microsoft exchange server (push email, contacts/calendar/notes always sync'd and backed up) and having word and powerpoint. On top of that the ability to customize it (reg edits and custom roms thanks to all the amazing cooks and devs on this forum) and the wide variety of programs available for this OS.
The camera isn't anywhere near as good as n series or sony ericsson devices, but i think this shortfall is covered by what i mentioned previously.
Also keep in mind windows mobile is like a high maintance girlfriend. You cant leave her alone for too long without her *****ing about something but thats part of having a highly customizable and powerful device. If you wanna push its limits be ready for flashing a rom atleast twice a month
fone_fanatic said:
If a camera is important to you than i'd suggest sticking with the n95.. or better yet, grab an n82.
I've been using windows mobile for a while now (made the switch from symbian in about '01) But my brothers all have nokias (one has the n95, the other has the black n95 (4gig or something like that) and another has the n82.. i know big family). And we kinda compete over what i can do with windows mobile and what they can do with their symbian devices.. somehow i always win with the wow factor
The reason i'm with windows mobile is because of its compatibility with microsoft exchange server (push email, contacts/calendar/notes always sync'd and backed up) and having word and powerpoint. On top of that the ability to customize it (reg edits and custom roms thanks to all the amazing cooks and devs on this forum) and the wide variety of programs available for this OS.
The camera isn't anywhere near as good as n series or sony ericsson devices, but i think this shortfall is covered by what i mentioned previously.
Also keep in mind windows mobile is like a high maintance girlfriend. You cant leave her alone for too long without her *****ing about something but thats part of having a highly customizable and powerful device. If you wanna push its limits be ready for flashing a rom atleast twice a month
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Very true for the gf analogy lol. You have to keep her happy by pimping here with new stuff. And there is a joy doing that too .
p/s I flash ( rom or radio ) nearly once a week. I am never 100% happy
aberz said:
Very true for the gf analogy lol. You have to keep her happy by pimping here with new stuff. And there is a joy doing that too .
p/s I flash ( rom or radio ) nearly once a week. I am never 100% happy
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I start itching when i dont flash a rom in 7 days.. i'm currently itching right now but i have so much work to do that i shouldn't even be on this forum right now!
I don't use Exchange or anything like that, and although I used to flash my Athena a lot this was mainly because there was always some annoying glitch or shortcoming in each ROM I tried!
As for cooking ROMs....well how does that really help? sure you can cook applications in there which your carrier doesn't add by default, but it's not all that difficult to remove or install an app. The Nokia is pretty vanilla anyway and I've just added what I wanted to it, moving my apps into different folders as I pleased.
I want to put all the movies I want onto a card and play them effectively, I want a good camera for when I'm out and about with a video editor so I can add titles, music and effects to clips before sending them, I want push email, maybe a bit of IM, full office functionality (including pdf viewing and zip/rar extracting capability), fast gallery capable of smoothly rendering and displaying pictures copied from my digital camera, I want a good browser with flash support for when I'm within range of a hotspot or in a 3.5g area; and a quick browser for when I just need to look something up quickly (Opera mini 4.1), I want full GPS support including a comprehensive Satnav application and google maps,
I want a Youtube client that can save clips so I can show friends and don't have to go through the browser everytime, I want an Mp3 editor to edit tags and crop and cut mp3s for ringtones and message tones, i want bluetooth keyboard support, built in FM radio, the ability to connect my laptop to the internet via my phone through Wifi, an SMS reader, a screenshot-taker, a torrent downloader, a limewire-style Gnutella client.
That's about it at the moment. All of these are available on the N95 and almost all for free. Sure there's no qwerty keyboard, but I bet I can type faster with T9 anyway since there are no dedicated number keys on the Tytn 2. I'll also have a spare hand to carry my shopping as I won't have to use both thumbs to type.
The most convincing argument I've heard so far is that I could make my TyTn 2 sound like a tank.
I definitely can't do that on my N95.
You've basically answered your own question. Granted, most of the stuff you can do with your N95 can be done with the TyTN II.
But if you can't list a pro to have a TyTN II when you had briefly, then stick with the N95.
leoni1980 said:
I don't use Exchange or anything like that, and although I used to flash my Athena a lot this was mainly because there was always some annoying glitch or shortcoming in each ROM I tried!
As for cooking ROMs....well how does that really help? sure you can cook applications in there which your carrier doesn't add by default, but it's not all that difficult to remove or install an app. The Nokia is pretty vanilla anyway and I've just added what I wanted to it, moving my apps into different folders as I pleased.
I want to put all the movies I want onto a card and play them effectively, I want a good camera for when I'm out and about with a video editor so I can add titles, music and effects to clips before sending them, I want push email, maybe a bit of IM, full office functionality (including pdf viewing and zip/rar extracting capability), fast gallery capable of smoothly rendering and displaying pictures copied from my digital camera, I want a good browser with flash support for when I'm within range of a hotspot or in a 3.5g area; and a quick browser for when I just need to look something up quickly (Opera mini 4.1), I want full GPS support including a comprehensive Satnav application and google maps,
I want a Youtube client that can save clips so I can show friends and don't have to go through the browser everytime, I want an Mp3 editor to edit tags and crop and cut mp3s for ringtones and message tones, i want bluetooth keyboard support, built in FM radio, the ability to connect my laptop to the internet via my phone through Wifi, an SMS reader, a screenshot-taker, a torrent downloader, a limewire-style Gnutella client.
That's about it at the moment. All of these are available on the N95 and almost all for free. Sure there's no qwerty keyboard, but I bet I can type faster with T9 anyway since there are no dedicated number keys on the Tytn 2. I'll also have a spare hand to carry my shopping as I won't have to use both thumbs to type.
The most convincing argument I've heard so far is that I could make my TyTn 2 sound like a tank.
I definitely can't do that on my N95.
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Click to collapse
ok, I cant seem to understand the reason of this thread. From both of your threads is clearly obvious that u prefer Nokia so why are u asking?
u should take the nokia, and u will as I assume, am I right?
Sorry if my post looks too impolite. Dont want to be offensive.
If you find the N95 to be more suited to your needs, please carry on using it. "Better" is just a manner of perspective.
The best advise I could give is try to borrow a TyTN II and use it for a bit, see if it suites your needs and usage patterns. Then decide which you like better... or you can be greedy and get both!
--
BTW I gave our extra N95 to my sister kept my TyTN II and Nokia 6267, I reckoned my TyTN II can do everything I wanted and it sync'd better with my desktop [XP + Outlook 2007 + ActiveSync 4.5]. My Nokia 6267 is for my call/sms all-you-want SIM to same network [SUN cellular PH].
another computer exchange customer
personally id go for the kaiser as i do not like nokia due to the random faults that go wrong with their phones, and also due to the kaiser running WM which as said before is alot more customizable etc.
CEX offer a 12 month warranty on their phones too which is good if you decide to get the kaiser.
i don't know as much about the n95 as the n82, but i suppose it probably does what it does pretty well, and the n95 probably does what it does better than the tytn II does what it does, if you get what i mean. =P
but the difference is, that the kaiser is expandable, and it's compliant with a (albeit slightly handicapped for the WM platform) suite of applications for the windows platform. it syncs almost flawlessly (and definitely more completely) than any symbian platform with outlook, opens up word, excel, and powerpoint files when i need them on the move, etc. also, because of the expandability, the WM platform would be among the first to be able to take advantage of any new technology not specifically designed for the WM device specifically, either as it comes out, or as an enterprising programmer whips up a program for it. take for example how both the n95 and WM platform can both browse the internet. but also say some new security code comes up that prevents access to some webpages. you can bet some programming companies like netfront or other will probably get some code out for WM platform users to upgrade to while you might not be as flexible with other platforms. i like how i can log on to my bank account via wireless/3G and manage my accounts (transfer funds) in emergency times through my tytn II.
all that said, the tytn II will have all the pitfalls of first adopter technology. it won't be as slick nor "do what it does" as well as the n95. i mentioned the n82 earlier, and i'm seriously thinking of that phone as a backup to my tytnII. for me, the n82 has a great camera, GPS, and the T9 keypad (although the keys are a bit small), and i know, unlike my kaiser, all will work pretty much flawlessly as advertised. but will it replace the kaiser? the answer is a definitive no. i need the kaiser for what it does (see above). but it'll be a nice backup to have, especially for a night out, or when i just want the convenience of the T9 keypad, which i find much easier and faster to use one-handed.
Firstly hello.
In your opening post you mentioned that you have briefly owned a Kaiser and that you found it prety lame???????????????????????????????. You, sir, are obviously NOT clued up on Pocket PC's nor the TyTN II!!! It is not a device for ID10T's.
It should be obvious to you then, which device you should choose. I think you already know the answer to your own question. Why start a thread then?
Do I really have to tell you what you already know? Do I really have to tell you that the N95 is no match for ANY pocket pc, let alone the TyTN II? Do I really have to tell you that Windows Mobile is unrivalled for it's abundance of applications compared to Symbian? Do I really have to tell you that Symbian apps, if available are more expensive? Do I really have to tell you that Windows Mobile is far better, more flexible and more compatible when synchronising with Laptops etc?
And finally, if a camera is that important to you, get yourself a nice Kodak Z612 for near-professional photos. As far as the TyTN II goes for camera, it is one of the best on any pocket pc. The TyTN II with CorePlayer v1.2.2 is unrivalled for playing movies and videos. TomTom on the TyTN II is absolutely superb. The TyTN II is also tweakable to levels only dreamed about by Nokia owners.
So, mon ami, the answer is obvious.....but you already knew that.
Resistance is futile.....
Get the TyTN II...........if you have the brains.....or maybe better yet, stick to the lame N95...it will obviously suit you better.
hehehehehehehe
In the medical profession - it is interesting that the person the least qualified to make a decision is ultimately the one who makes it - the person who is sick. Think about it - YOU decide if you are going to see a chropractor, a surgeon, a homeopathic doctor - right?
Will a chropractor recommend a surgeon?
Will an MD recommend a chiropractor?
So - to bring this analogy home - you come to a Kaiser board and ask (after insulting the phone) if this phone that you say is lame is better than the phone that you ultimately went with? The users on this board are all biased for the Kaiser.
It is like going to Mexico, going into a bar and yelling "Remember the Alamo!"
Bill
whk said:
In the medical profession - it is interesting that the person the least qualified to make a decision is ultimately the one who makes it - the person who is sick. Think about it - YOU decide if you are going to see a chropractor, a surgeon, a homeopathic doctor - right?
Will a chropractor recommend a surgeon?
Will an MD recommend a chiropractor?
So - to bring this analogy home - you come to a Kaiser board and ask (after insulting the phone) if this phone that you say is lame is better than the phone that you ultimately went with? The users on this board are all biased for the Kaiser.
It is like going to Mexico, going into a bar and yelling "Remember the Alamo!"
Bill
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Bingo! Thats exactly my opinion.
As soon as you dispense with advantages like the full qwerty keyboard, and the touchscreen, the point of your post starts to go out the window. Sure, if neither of those things has any importance for you, you may well be better off with the N95, or perhaps something even simpler than that. For the rest of us, who want or need a full featured pocket PC, the Kaiser is the much more obvious choice.
Why Kaiser? Answer: EVERYONE has Nokia phones or IPhones. Only the exclusive fews who KNOW the extensive power of Kaiser enough, to carry and own it! The rest of the folks out there, just stick with your iphones, nokia phones for it's easy to use and require the least brain power to operate the phones. Kaiser is not your typical "My phone is cooler than yours" Phone.
ctrolaltdel said:
Why Kaiser? Answer: EVERYONE has Nokia phones or IPhones. Only the exclusive fews who KNOW the extensive power of Kaiser enough, to carry and own it! The rest of the folks out there, just stick with your iphones, nokia phones for it's easy to use and require the least brain power to operate the phones. Kaiser is not your typical "My phone is cooler than yours" Phone.
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Click to collapse
Agree with most of your points , except the last sentence
Kaiser is the typical "my phone is cooler than yours" . Why ? Cuz my brothers, sisters, cousins, neighbors, dogs and cats own a iPhone or a N95 , not the freaking Kaiser
leoni1980
"The most convincing argument I've heard so far is that I could make my TyTn 2 sound like a tank."
That was not my attempt to give your a sound argument, but if you think so , thanks. . Too bad , you didnt get the joke . More than that , I can make it moan like a biotch every time I slide it in and out , how cool is it !!!
Yea, I get your point when you started this thread so I just fool around with you . But most of the peeps here dont think so . Its not a very best place to stroke your N95 epeen cuz the folks living under the kaiser kingdom are pretty hostile.
Anyway, N95 is a good phone . But compare it with Kaiser is just like orange vs apple .
I am looking more and more and I see that the Iphone is pretty fast and rounds well in terms of multimedia features.
They also claim it's great for work.
Now what is making you not switch to this device?
I'm curious to see your opinions!
All in itself!!!!!
I´m so happy with WM with all its defects and unlimited personalization and now with Rhodium you cant compare it to iphoney
It´s the 52nd thread about something related to iphoney
Im with you paisa!
All the winmo customization makes this devicesmore interesting... we had many apps to switch if we have more new features even in open GNU, no unlocks for everything you want...
If you said that the iphone is a powerfull toy in multimedia features... well its truth but... the speed or animation is not the only feature you may search in a "smartphone" remote desktop... internet sharing... obviously 3G multimedia player for almost all the codecs! well not so... this devices cant play .VOB
and the preferable Windows office doc xls and ppt or many DB apps in it editable and pdf by adobe direct app. encoding the avi is the nicer thing to rip your dvd's or Blue ray or... Matroska MKV nice def and low size!!! amazing isnt it?
Mp3 at loud! MKA... wma or whatever you want, GPS!!!
SO....so much why I am happy with Windows mobile devices, Iphone is just... that... a pretty phone... well manufactured by the famous Apple... thats all.
oups did I say gb, gba, nes, snes, sega emulator... Oh! **** even Playstation emulator! hahaha, Java is just the beginig of your boring days.
WM and XDA All the Way!
Here's a already started thread for info: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=3928679#post3928679
switching to the IPHONE is as same as quitting from XDA
our WM device is absolutely irreplaceable (too many historical value inside 1 or 8 GB in our Storage Card)
well..WM is kind of a nation and identity, no matter how good and bad it is, but that is my soul (i'm proud to have it)
I probably shouldn't answer this thread but I will!!!
I have an ipod touch and have had WM phones since the magician, I also borrowed my mates iphone 3g while he was abroad for a fortnight to see what I thought of it. Iphones are well executed devices, the appstore is neat as is the ability to easily download music over the air, but you know what, after a week I was bored with it!!
The TD2 I have now just works and I can change the way it looks without "jailbreaking" etc.
My plan costs less than half the cost of the iPhone plan, and includes unlimited texts.
That's pretty much the only thing keeping me on WM. Of course, if an Android phone comes out that works on SERO, I'll jump.
Well the big reason im not getting it is the fact that my business discount doesn't apply towards the iphone plans.. bleh... but I'm happy with the WM progress with 6.5 and TF3D.. give it couple years MS will catch up to iphone..
sguerra923 said:
give it couple years MS will catch up to iphone..
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Kinda sad that you have to say couple years... lol
sguerra923 said:
.. give it couple years MS will catch up to iphone..
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A couple years.... is goodbut hopefully sooner. WM6.5 isn't as pretty but it works and will hold us over till WM7....
then again the Iphone is still playing catchup as well..... MMS, Tethering... Finally but not for AT&T.....
video(about time), 3MP camera(Meh... 5MP minimum nowadays), uh, I'm missing a lot here..... But they finally caught up.... look apple finally put SD card slots on their laptos too.
or maybe MS will enter to iphone!
like Mac OS few years ago, with "Office for MAC"
Mac OS just has a WORKS app that emulates the spreadsheet the text documents and the Presentations like PPT then MS makes Office for MAC! jajaja imagine how much does MS can do with money and popularity!
My wife has an iphone 3g (non "S" lol), and I have my old faithful Hermes100.
To eliminate any perception of bias, here's my home. My server, 2 personal comps, and my two work comps all run linux, I have an old imac that serves as a bedside entertainment center (50 pound fancypants dvd player) and iphone sync'r, and my firewall runs FreeBSD. The only Windows I run is either paravirtualized or on my phone. I can't wait to make my linux HTPC and linux car-puter.
I think I would rather have HTC's latest slicker-than-snake-s**t WinMo phone over apple's latest anything anyday. Unless cost was no option, in which case I'd have both. Obviously a phone that could run *nix, or windows mobile, or (heh) iphone's OS would be the most attractive to me. I don't think I'll see that happen anytime soon.
When she first got her iphone, I told her I was going to need to jailbreak it to be able to install an openvpn client so she could access stuff at home remotely. At least with Windows Mobile I could write a hello world, compile it, and run it on my phone right out of the box. Oh, and I can cancel my data plan if I want to.
Freedom - gotta love it
Easy answr!
No customization, not for real geeks, its just a pretty looking mp3 player and phone.
not for biz users, plus who the heck PAYS for these apps? I mean who would buy a twitter app for iphone that is free for every other phone? that there is reason enough not to change for me.
If i were changing it would be android, but i would still be on htc devices and have WinMo as y 'other' or vice versa.
iPhone is a yuppie phone for multimedia lovers, thats it!
HTC will keep me from switching to apple (eww). I've never really liked Apple in the first place.
WM, HTC, & XDA will keep me happy!
Iphone not my cup of tea.
I've just converted to android this morning - dumping my WinMo crap now because I *love* my new G1.
There's some nice touches borrowed from the iphone but it feels a little less wrapped in cotton wool than an iphone...but not quite as edgy and unstable as a WinMo device
Smiffy.
I do not enjoy having EVERYTHING ruled by Apple. You have to pay for ringtones (Android allows you to make them on the phone). Most of the apps are paid apps on the Iphone. The G1 may not do everything that the iphone does, but the things it does do, it does better than the iphone. I will admit, I sometimes have apple envy when Im messing with my friends iphone, but it fades quickly when I hear him ***** about not being able to tether (without a $60 plan), or about having to use crappy ringtones, or not having a landscape keyboard, or countless other things.
I do think that the iphone is sexier, and I know that it has alot of cool accessories (I love the ifrogz).
However until Apple is a little less vigilant about keeping things locked up tightly. I will stick with my G1, and I will stick with my Zune.
Dredge said:
I do not enjoy having EVERYTHING ruled by Apple. You have to pay for ringtones (Android allows you to make them on the phone). Most of the apps are paid apps on the Iphone. The G1 may not do everything that the iphone does, but the things it does do, it does better than the iphone. I will admit, I sometimes have apple envy when Im messing with my friends iphone, but it fades quickly when I hear him ***** about not being able to tether (without a $60 plan), or about having to use crappy ringtones, or not having a landscape keyboard, or countless other things.
I do think that the iphone is sexier, and I know that it has alot of cool accessories (I love the ifrogz).
However until Apple is a little less vigilant about keeping things locked up tightly. I will stick with my G1, and I will stick with my Zune.
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Click to collapse
Good post Dredge. Ii agree there are some nice things about the iPhone. The slimness compared to the Pro but the slide out keyboard makes up for that! The iPhone does rule in one thing though and that's the web browsing. It is exactly like on a computer where the Sprint phones, up UNTIL the Pre , where not easy to navigate. I went and played with the Pre and it is likke the iPhone as far as ease of use with the web. I wish the Pro would release an update to make web browsing better. We'll see. But the HTC whips the iPhone is everything else!
Dredge said:
I do not enjoy having EVERYTHING ruled by Apple. You have to pay for ringtones (Android allows you to make them on the phone). Most of the apps are paid apps on the Iphone. The G1 may not do everything that the iphone does, but the things it does do, it does better than the iphone. I will admit, I sometimes have apple envy when Im messing with my friends iphone, but it fades quickly when I hear him ***** about not being able to tether (without a $60 plan), or about having to use crappy ringtones, or not having a landscape keyboard, or countless other things.
I do think that the iphone is sexier, and I know that it has alot of cool accessories (I love the ifrogz).
However until Apple is a little less vigilant about keeping things locked up tightly. I will stick with my G1, and I will stick with my Zune.
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Click to collapse
Dredge,
I completely agree with you hardware wise. Only Apple's can make the handset that run this wonderful OS. So, there is no reason for HTC, Samsung, LG, Acer and the rest to want it to succeed. In fact, it is natural for any of those hardware supporter to hate iPhone. Supporting iPhone would tentamount to closing their own smartphone business completely.
However, your perception regarding inability to change and add free ringtone is not accurate. I can get countless free ones. Also, most applications on Applestore are very very cheap or free. Of course, Cydia applications are also mostly free.
Before 3.0, landscape keyboard is not globally available and had to be achieved with third party software (e.g., in email and SMS). This of course will change with OS3.0.
Tethering is possible already with jailbroken phone. With non-jailbroken new iPhone, it is the Carrier who's disabling it, and not the limitation of iPhone itself. AT&T really need to raise its bar! I think the backlash against it would grow, and rightly should.
BTW, is AT&T not placing similar restriction for G1 customer?
erm... MONEY lol i got my XDA for free and the iphone is very expensive for what it is, lol.
Well... This is a personal rant and I've already seen a lot of similar messages. It usually starts with an "my iPhone is better" and the answer always seems to be something along the lines of "ah, it sucks, our Touch Pro is way better, you'll be coming back crying", yadda-yadda-yadda. Here is my take - and I don't mean to offend anyone... I write this because I'm totally dissapointed with MY Touch Pro. Maybe you feel good about yours, it does whatever you needed/wanted, you simply love it.
iPhone is better. A heck of a lot better. I wish I had chose to buy one instead of this piece of crap that calls itself a "smartphone". Why? Well... I came to the world of Windows Mobile with a Tytn, a great all-round phone that had some problems but mostly did what it was supposed to do. The friendly guys and gals in this site managed to squeeze every ounce of life, speed, features and durability from it, making me totally love it. Custom ROMs made it faster and faster, added new and useful features... but... But then came "the new phones". Theoretically, they were faster, they had more memory, "they were better" in every single category. And Touch Pro was at the top, so, after lots of thought, loving its design and hating the fact I had to use an external GPS device with my Tytn, I splashed the cash and bought a brand new, shiny Touch Pro. More memory. More speed. Better screen. Better graphics. Better sound. Better GPS... NOT.
Even with custom ROMs, my Touch Pro crawls like a snail when compared with my Tytn. I mean it, and I tried more than 10 different ones (and I don't count different versions, but different cooks). The device simply seems unable to cope with its official interface, Touchflo 3D, whereas Manilla 2D ran screaming on the Tytn. Touch Pro has more Ram, theoretically making Opera usable. Goodbye ol' crashes of the Tytn, with Touch Pro I can finally browse the Internets happily! Or can I? Opera seems to totally suck compared to the iPhones Safari, and that doesn't come from an iPhone lover - I hate almost anything Apple ever created, including the iPhone. BUT... Whenever I'm with a friend of mine that has an iPhone, browsing the net through it is pure joy compared to the nightmare of Touch Pro. Appart from feeling more "fluid", iPhone is a lot faster when changing from portrait to landscape. Yeah, the online keyboard sucks, but so does the hardware keyboard of Touch pro compared to the one in my old Tytn (I know, "it's my opinion", never said it's a global rule).
The slow-as-hell problem applies to every single function or application in my Touch Pro. I'm with the afformentioned friend and we want to tweet something? Perfect. In ten seconds he's taken a snapshot in his iPhone, opened Twitter and posted a message, picture included. I'm still waiting for a Twitter app to load. We want to take some notes? He taps, writes, saves. In 5 secs. I'm taking out the stylus, for the interface buttons are too small for my fingers. I select Start>Utilities>Notes, wait for the Notes app to load, wait, wait, after it loads hunt the tiny "new" somewhere below the screen, wait for a new note to open, open the keyboard, wait for the screen to realign, type, wait for the characters to appear (and yes, I have applied the TX9 tweak but the keyboard is still painfully slow), save the note, close the keyboard, close the notes app, wait for the screen to realign. Ah, what a joy.
And the apps! Oh, those glorious apps! We have ten unusable RSS readers, 5 different commercial programs that try to improve our phones interface (each failing miserably in different ways), and... Well, that's it. We then have about 10 different calculators and stopwatches. And we call this, THIS, "a productivity device"? WTF can we do with this brick? What is it useful for? Taking photos? Even that is slow-as-hell compared with Tytn, after trying every-single-tweak. The subject of the photo has to be perfectly still, or else everything is blurry.
And the insult is that whenever I search for something new and useful for this brick, I find new fonts, new wallpapers, new manilla tweaks, some scripts or mini-apps that change the new WM6.5 chromes appearance! These are our "apps", when iPhone has new note-taking apps, new task managers, new VNC-like applications, emulators, games, anything... And yet we bash it as a kiddie phone and we hail out Touch Pro as a "serious" device. What's serious about a phone that cost me more than my wage (yeah, it costs -that- much in Greece where I live) and all that I can do with it is stare at slightly-different-colored-menues-than-the-default-ones? That's all there is to it?
Sorry for this, and sorry for coming out as an angry SOB, but I'm up to here with it. I'd really like somebody to come up and give me some advice or tips on how to make HTCs brick useful in some way, show me that I didn't actually throw my money away on a useless gadget. 'Cause I paid for an almighty device that in theory could do almost anything. It's as "smart" as my Tytn, it's slower than it in GPS and taking Pictures, there's no touch-friendly software for it (har-har, and it's called "Touch Pro", yeah, right)... WTF am I supossed to use it for? Paperweight?
I'm all ears people. Anyone wanting to tell me how they actually use their pricey device? Why you're happy with it and wouldn't change it for anything else? Does anyone -not- have the problems I have, and what did he do to avoid them? Am I totally wrong - and why?
Best regards
Ducklord
DAMN!!
What is the word or letter limit in XDA forums?
Our Touch Pro is way better, you'll be coming back crying, yadda-yadda-yadda.
See? See how disappointed I am? I'm mr. writesalot!
Best regards
Ducklord
Still love mines....iphone in my eyes is a childs toy just a bunch of flashy things to take your mind off what it lacks....Wow my iPhone can cook dinner for me with this app,but then again to MMS i have to pay another $600 to get a new model of the phone when I just bought a 3G 6 months ago.....and I get no warranty....Tell me how the iphone is better when everytime they add new things that should've been on the phone from the start you have to buy a new model to have?MMS,Video,Teethering
Honestly, you make a lot of good points.
I've had similar experiences with people using the iphone in the same ways. It may be nothing more than an "application launcher" but the applications actually do something useful, quickly.
I don't like the iphone. I don't like apple. As a matter of fact I actually hate both of them very much... but I see your point and I'm almost as fed up as you are.
I'm looking forward to hearing what people reply with.
The Microsoft store may alleviate some of this, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. My plan is to wait for the next generation of phones, see if HTC still screws everyone over with drivers or other ass-hattery, and make a decision then.
Incidentally I have a Jornada 568 from 2002 that runs emulated games as well as my Fuze, plays Mp3s without stuttering (while using an external keyboard to write short stories with), plays video without tearing, and has a standard headphone jack. If I could I would just stick a phone in it and use that instead.
hey ducklord, sorry to hear about ur misery. I own a touch pro, and i find it to be quite perfect.. perhaps with a good set of ROM. Why don't you try out EnergyROM magic (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=530882)? It works like a charm for me...
Sparkz914 said:
Wow my iPhone can cook dinner for me with this app,but then again to MMS i have to pay another $600 to get a new model of the phone when I just bought a 3G 6 months ago
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From what the afformentioned friend told me, "no-mms" is a problem of AT&T or some other provider that offers the iPhone in the States. To prove it, he sent me an MMS "giving me the finger". He's on Cosmote (Greek Provider), and uses a totally un-tweaked, locked, out-of-the-box iPhone.
Sparkz914 said:
.....and I get no warranty....Tell me how the iphone is better when everytime they add new things that should've been on the phone from the start you have to buy a new model to have?MMS,Video,Teethering
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As I told you, no-mms is not an issue. Tethering, if you mean "having access to the Internets from your laptop through your phone" -IS- a problem, witch though can be solved by buying a USB/PCMCIA/Something GPRS modem. For about 30 euros. On the other hand, not 30, not 50, not 400 euros can make my Touch Pro something more useful than a brick. You mean, you REALLY use tethering all the time? You REALLY use video conference? The rates are sky-high here in Greece - 10 video calls would cost the same as the damn phone! Ah, and here's another point where iPhone (and almost any other device) is better: was your Touch Pro usable out of the box? Want me to point you to other posts by other users that say how much it sucked until they installed a custom Rom (and thus lost its warranty)? THIS is how a device is supposed to work? By exchanging its official warranty with a custom-cooked ROM, created by people that, up to a point, are GUESSING what-should-work (and they're doing a great job at that)... For Baal's shake, cooks, developers and lots of users are prowling the insides of other phones to find drivers witch they'll be able to tweak so that our damn brick will be able to play videoclips and long-forgotten-emulators like 3-year-old devices do! I mean, gosh, HTC should PAY XDA Developers for making their phone bearable! But, ofcourse, you are happy... No video, no speed, sluggish loading and typing, godawful GPS, no useful apps whatsoever... But you have tethering. Somehow, I don't quite believe you.
skyau said:
I've had similar experiences with people using the iphone in the same ways. It may be nothing more than an "application launcher" but the applications actually do something useful, quickly.
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AAAND, ladies and gentleman, that's the whole point. Even with all the other problems, IF, and thats the most important thing, IF our phone had some really useful AND easy-to-use apps, that other phones didn't, or IF it excelled in some way, the situation would be bearable. Its not just that its hardware sucks, its insulting that we can't run (and use) stuff on it!
And please, if any programmer is reading this, the place is called XDA Developers. Please, DEVELOP something. No, tweaking the interface isn't "developing", it's "tweaking". And although I don't know anything about programming, I'd be more than happy to "develop" graphics for a useful app.
Best regards
Ducklord
ducklord said:
the place is called XDA Developers. Please, DEVELOP something. No, tweaking the interface isn't "developing", it's "tweaking".
Best regards
Ducklord
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hahaha took the words out of my mouth... they say that WM has thousands of apps but from what i see its, 1000 half-done interfaces / 5000 tweaks, customizers, and "fixes" and 50 somewhat of apps ready to use that does at least something other than what the phone could already do but wanted to make it look "pretty" like a new contact manager, dialer, etc.
on the other hand the iphone has their own job search app, NBA play by play app, and more things other than what the phone could already do in the first place
im worried about "Marketplace" as well cuz there are multiple screen resolutions, models, and kinds of WM devices that the compatibility will not be all there when it comes to all the apps
I want to clarify that as unimpressed with the Fuze as I am, I am more than impressed and grateful for all the work done for it by the people here on XDA.
I'm glad to have a repository of software, knowledge, and development like this.
It makes me wonder what could be done with a machine that didn't need to be fixed or flashed right out of the box.
My problems with this phone stem from AT&T, HTC themselves, and to a lesser extent Microsoft. I appreciate that there's such a supportive community cleaning up these three company's messes.
skyau said:
I want to clarify that as unimpressed with the Fuze as I am, I am more than impressed and grateful for all the work done for it by the people here on XDA.
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Well, I'm grateful for XDA, but not for "all the work they've done for Touch Pro". No, I'm not whining or disregarding their work, it's just that I had the idea they really squeezed the life out of my Tytn, but they give me the impression that they've just touched the surface of Touch Pro.
Best regards
Ducklord
Patience
May be you just need some patience. How long has the TyTn been out compared to the TP? As for me, I have very little experience with the iPhone but my Fuze(unlocked and on T-Mobile) has very little delay in any program. I am running 1 of the best ROMs (imho), NRG's wonderful magic series.
who cares about the iphone..i just got the palm pre for my business device and man its such a relief..i still have my fuze but find myself using it less and less..its so nice to have a device not have so many issues..and just work the way i need it to..and i know webOS is still young but man i think its gonna be the next big thing..ill never give up on windows mobile though...it may be not up to the times in GUI but its an old bull and knows what its doing..but for now i need something that works with the times so my Pre is my main device for now..im still flashing every new rom NRG puts out tho on my fuze lol and ive gotten to tap into my linux side with rooting my Pre and doing all the hacks
NRGs ROMs are what my Touch Pro runs, and although quite fast in the TouchFlo 3D department, loading and running apps takes a lot of time for my taste. And just think that NRGs is one of the fastest ROMs but, still, Touch Pro can't match the usage speed of Tytn (I mean in the interface department), not even counting the 5 to 15 seconds for an app to load (5 to 10 seconds for the camera? The subject of the photo will be dead and gone until the snap is taken!). And even if you put up with this sluginess... Where are the apps? After posting the 1st message I did a visit to "the usual places" to see what's new in WM world... The joy is unimaginable! Three new versions of the same 'ol SPB software, a "smart calculator" and a stopwatch... Great...
As for the Pre, well, when your wage is arround 700-900 euros and a phone like those we're talking about costs from 600 to 1200 euros... Let's just say I'm stuck with this brick for two-three more years. Ahrgh... Teh pains...
Best regards
Ducklord
PS: How, tell me, HOW hard would it be to create two simple, decent apps, one for taking Notes and one for managing Tasks? I'd be in heaven if I found two, just these two apps, that loaded fast, where Touch Friendly and could sync with Outlook. Or some GTD apps. Or some productivity ones. That could sync with our PC. Heck, I bought a WINDOWS MOBILE device so as to sync to my WINDOWS PC. And an Apple phone has more apps that sync with outlook. And better.
PS2: Have you realized how shafted we are from anyone and any company? Evernote for WM is the only decent notes-taking app I found. And, SPECIFICALLY in WM, you have to have a data connection active to use it. No local notes and syncing later. No local storage, no local search. After we payed one wage for out phone, we have to pay another one in data costs to use it! Ack! De Happines! De Joy!
have you tried thumbcal? it is a finger friendly GUI and it replaces the wm standard calender and tasks and i believe you can take notes down too..and so if you have an exchange server setup (i use mail2web) then itl sync everything and you can sync outlook to your exchange too and there you have device to pc seemless syncing and then i used this regedit whch i made to use thumbcal when you tap a shortcut that uses a hard wired shortcut (like tf3d)
yah once htc shifted from TI OMAP to Qualcomm MSMxxxx processors things went downhill...
I dunno I have a sprint touch pro and on mighty rom wm6.5 and I love it. It's as fast as my gf's iphone. My phone is alot better than hers except playing music. Plus, I can't stand looking at the screen of iphone! The resolution is really bad and I get a headache!!
I dunno why you have to wait to load a note program because it doesn't have any loading for me. I can write and save in no time. Also, when you open the keyboard there is a shortcut for notes. You can always assign your talk button as a note program too.
I'll admit that there are some delays when switching apps, and some apps take longer to load than others.
You do realize that there are other apps out there besides what's on this site don't you? There are literally thousands of apps out there. Look at Handandgo for example.
My ROM has PocketNotepad cooked in. As soon as I open it, it opens me to a blank notepad and I can start typing right away. It opens in 1-2 seconds for me, which I think is reasonable.
I don't use tasks, so I can't really speak for that side of it.
i dont find energyroms particularly fast, not sure why everyone says its fast. it's definitely not faster compared to a tweaked lite rom. but i guess with the eye candy and full suite of apps, it's relatively fast.
I tried launching notepad and it took less than 2 secs to be able to write a new note. if it's that slow on your phone, your phone obviously has issues.
Partially agree
On the first few days I was thinking the same because I've been waiting for a phone like this for ages and here in Romania it costs more then double of an average salary so you can imagine that people get scared once they give out so much money on a single device which doesn't behave as it should. In fact it has quite a few bugs but still wouldn't change it for the iPhone...
Notes application starts in about 2 seconds for me and energyRom is decently fast - I wish I could remove that colourful taskbar though because I hate it and no one gave me an answer how to change it. Even tried one method and had to reflash the device. Anyway...
The GPS problem pisses me off because I thought it's as good as the one from the Diamond but turns out to be awful. I use IGO8 and it sucks. It locks on my position in about 10 minutes. Not good at all.
The camera is not bad, music is decent, but those aren't things that smart-phones are famous for...
Overall I am happy with this device, or should I say I have no other choice then to be happy with it and would like to thank the people from XDA Developers for their time and for correcting the errors that Microsoft should had corrected. Waiting for new apps and as ducklord said - I can help designing some of the apps so if any developer needs design, we're here. I'm not good at programming though.
Bela