I have read alot of the threads involving the performance of the camera (in video mode and when operating the camera in still mode before taking a still image) and blaming this on the tytn2's lack of hardware video rendering. I have made some observations as a photographer.
My opinion is that the performance is due more to the exposure/sensitivity of the CCD than to the graphical rendering of the tytn2.
For example - in low light, the camera really suffers from low frames per second. Could this be due to the lack of sensitivity of the CCD i.e. the need to expose each frame longer per second to render the scene. The Tytns2's graphical engine can only display an image once it has received one from the camera, therefore providing slow frame per second updates.
Point the camera outdoors or directly at an indoor light and the fps of the camera shoots up to over 20 fps. The camera needs to expose the scene less , i.e. the shutter speed is quicker. The camera imagery is feeding more frames to the graphic hardware to render and therefore the fps goes up.
I would love the Tytn2 to render dark indoor scenes in a more fluid way but I feel this is a short fall of the camera hardware and not the graphic engine that is waiting for frames of imagery from it.
My orignial tytn does reproduce better results indoors and has a faster display update when framing stills or using moving video - BUT - the tytn only has a 2mp CCD.
Clearly there is a problem with lack of suitable graphic drivers from HTC but has the benefit from having a 3mp camera in the Tytn2 meant a trade off in camera video indoor performance??
Just my take!
Thanks
Stu
While what you say might make some sense I think it's a very steep performance drop. Too steep to just be explained by exposure issues?
I haven't really experienced a similair issue with any other camera. If you know of other products with similar problems is the performance drop really that bad?
I suppose wishing for an option that disables auto-brightness is going to get me no-where
I have to agree on this one; the fact that the camera performs nearly perfectly in good lighting does seem a little odd - I suppose performance issues could be introduced by the CPU rather than the GPU having to increase the brightness of each frame to display on the preview screen though?
undac said:
While what you say might make some sense I think it's a very steep performance drop. Too steep to just be explained by exposure issues?
I haven't really experienced a similair issue with any other camera. If you know of other products with similar problems is the performance drop really that bad?
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Yes I agree, which leads me believe it is the camera in the Tytn2 which is the problem. In good light the camera responds well - or should I say the graphics engine is able to do its job rendering the scene without any lag as it isn't waiting for the camera to send it data. The graphics engine either works or it doesn't. It is having to render a 320x240 image regardless of whether the camera is in low or good light.
If it can do this well in good light then, given a decent camera app, it should have no problem in low light. I am running the new V5 camera app from HTC btw.
Could I just say that I have signed the petition, as I believe there are other issues with the D3D drivers which have other implication on other apps.
Rgds
Stu
smads said:
My opinion is that the performance is due more to the exposure/sensitivity of the CCD than to the graphical rendering of the tytn2.
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Also as an amateur-photographer, I totally agree with Stu on this. I like how you explained it!
E
eddythepeddy said:
Also as an amateur-photographer, I totally agree with Stu on this. I like how you explained it!
E
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cheers Eddy
smads said:
My opinion is that the performance is due more to the exposure/sensitivity of the CCD than to the graphical rendering of the tytn2.
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Click to collapse
CCD! Thats it! I was talking about this in another post and had CMOS stuck in my mind, not CCD! Comparing results from a proper camera set to 3MP and the Kaiser the results vary a lot, especially in poorer lighting conditions, or scenes with a lot of colour. I have also noticed image quality differs between my 3yr old Nikon D70 DSLR (6MP) and brand new Casio Exilm compact (7.2MP) (the Nikon is better) and I'm sure this has to do with the quality of the Nikon hardware compared to the Casio. With this knowledge, I don't think any driver improvements are going to increase the performance / quality of the Kaiser camera.
Then why does Qualcomm's site say the camera can record 640x480 but that is not a setting on the Kaiser? Should this be easy to change?
What you say does makes sense, haven't really thought of that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9b1L7m7G0Y
This clip was shot on a Touch Dual (also 2mp CCD) in normal indoor lightning, is the fps anything like the Tytn?
I dont know what fps I was getting but when the device is turned away from a close bright source of light the fps drops noticeably.
Anyway, I can't say I'm pleased with the camera on my device. Nor overall video performance for that matter.
Honestly, whats the point of having the settings where you can switch different lightings when that dayum camera stays in night mode, no matter what setting you choose?
What do you mean by different lightings? If you mean the part where you can change the white balance for sunlight, light bulbs etc, then thats to stop the colour cast you would get otherwise. Sunlight would be normal, a incandescent bulb would be very orange, flourescent green (i think). If you mean something else, please clarify.
Any camera is dependent on how much light actually striikes the recording element... film or digital doesn't matter.
Also as a photog, one thing I've learn these years past is the more light you can get to strike whatever it is actually recording the image, the better the image clarity and true to life the color will be. So, a larger lens, or a lens with better glass (clarity) that lets in more light will almost always yield the better picture, all other settings and environmental variables being the same.
This likely applies to the SLR comparison above. I don't think this necessarily applies to the 8925 to 8525 comparison, as both seem equally tiny. However, my 8925 isn't yet a week old, and I've already got a scratch across the "lens" built into the battery cover. Also, this phone shoots through not one, but two pieces of plastic over the actual lens (or the outermost piece of glass that comprises said lens). I don't see how that can be good at all.
FWIW, sure the pictures are physically bigger (space on disc), but I agree with the consensus, the result isn't as good as the previous model except in bright (such as day) light.
Steve-C said:
What do you mean by different lightings? If you mean the part where you can change the white balance for sunlight, light bulbs etc, then thats to stop the colour cast you would get otherwise. Sunlight would be normal, a incandescent bulb would be very orange, flourescent green (i think). If you mean something else, please clarify.
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yes, that's what I meant, thanks, I couldn't figure out the name of those settings for the life of me!
Back to the CCD vs. driver issue. I don't believe this is a CCD issue. Doesn't the HTC Advantage use the same CCD? 3mp? If so does that camera suffer the same HORRIBLE low light performance? If not which I don't think it does it's not the CCD but the rendering. Also the Advantage uses a different chipset which would really show it's not the CCD but point directly at the chipset/lack of driver.
Also my HTC Touch performs WAY better in low light than my Kaiser. Why would HTC purchase a "newer" CCD that performs worse than their previous CCD? Why I ask?!
Does anyone else feel like the people running these smartphone manufacturing businesses do not have their finger on the pulse of the community? And I'm not talking about low expectation every day average Joe who's only phone they ever had was a Motorola Razr and could care less as long as they can check their email and get text messages... I'm talking about XDA community type people. People who want a PC in their pocket(with a phone built in). Not just a phone in their pocket that checks email...
juiceppc said:
Also my HTC Touch performs WAY better in low light than my Kaiser. Why would HTC purchase a "newer" CCD that performs worse than their previous CCD? Why I ask?!
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Because they are cøcks.
But think of it this way:
Why would HTC purchase a "newer" Graphics chip that performs worse than their previous Graphics chip?
it's all about the money guys!
just think.. they put a ****ty one that is cheaper in lots of Kaiser..
People think.. oh Kaiser.. it's the best PDA around..
It must have all the best..
and then it turns out that they can do this things..
they can make a very large profit (cause of the millions PDA's sold arround the world).. changing just a few pieces..
well it's just a theory!
comment i'm insane
well looks like i'm crazy after all
cheers.
Related
I'm getting some seriously nasty bars during slow motion recording (I attached a screen shot which isn't as bad but when it's a video the bars move all around and are very distracting) Anyone seeing the same thing or am I looking at a defective phone? I already swapped out phones yesterday due to a stuck pixel, but best buy has been very easy about it thus far. Just wanting to see if this is hardware or software, thanks!
Yep, exactly the same here. Gets worse the more the sensor gain ramps up.
ydoucare said:
Yep, exactly the same here. Gets worse the more the sensor gain ramps up.
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Checked the sprint store demo and a best buy demo, All the same. Must be a low light issue. Oh well, Guess most of the time the feature will be used in the daylight (although this may be a bad thing when trying to slow mo some epic beer pong matches)
coojoe1000 said:
Checked the sprint store demo and a best buy demo, All the same. Must be a low light issue. Oh well, Guess most of the time the feature will be used in the daylight (although this may be a bad thing when trying to slow mo some epic beer pong matches)
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Figures, seems like it would be a hardware issue, but maybe there will be some magic firmware update that will help.
Most serious hd cameras require a lot of light, so this should be no surprise when recording show motion videos. Just be sure to have adequate lighting in the future
Sent from my HTCONE using Tapatalk 2
I haven't looked closely at the example yet otherwise I would have put my 2 cents in earlier.
I work a lot with cameras and know them very well. One thing to keep in mind is cmos sensors don't expose every pixel at the same time. This causes what is known as the jello effect when you move quickly left and right. This can also cause what is known as rolling shutter. I believe this is caused by the shutter speed in combination with the way cmos sensors work. When I get back from this weekend trip, I'll see what is going on.
At work I have a professional Sony video camera with a backlit cmos sensor. If I drop the shutter speed down too low to help when it's too dark, especially around fluorescent lights, I get brown bars rolling across the image. It's just a physical limitation of the sensor no matter the camera. Some hide it better than others. I hope this helps clear this up.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using xda app-developers app
This is nothing like traditional noise caused by high sensor gain in low light. We're talking dense horizontal lines only in slow motion recording, which I'm guessing is 120fps? 60 fps mode works fine. I've seen examples of slow motion video recorded by the euro version in low light that didn't have this problem.
ydoucare said:
This is nothing like traditional noise caused by high sensor gain in low light. We're talking dense horizontal lines only in slow motion recording, which I'm guessing is 120fps? 60 fps mode works fine. I've seen examples of slow motion video recorded by the euro version in low light that didn't have this problem.
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That doesn't eliminate it as a cause. The example you saw could have been in better lighting conditions than you thought, or the euro edition might have had older firmware that didn't let the ISO go as high (thus, the whole image would appear much darker, but less noise).
120fps slow motion means the camera has to use at least 120th of a second for a shutter speed. This is relatively fast for a smartphone camera, so it has to bump up the ISO to compensate. If the light is especially low, it will have to move all the way to the upper bounds of its ISO capability to get a usable image. Meanwhile, a 60fps video will have MUCH more time (2x is a lot of time) to grab light, and so it doesn't need to force the ISO so high.
It's extremely unlikely that a firmware update will solve this issue. All they could do is just force the camera not to use that high ISO setting, resulting in slow motion videos that are too dark instead of too noisy.
(Also, BTW, this has nothing to do with the jello effect)
How do you do slow motion video recording? When I have the video camera on, there aren't any menu options available.
Vincent Law said:
(Also, BTW, this has nothing to do with the jello effect)
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Thanks for adding. I hadn't had a chance to even look at the example posted but felt like it should be addressed by someone. I'm out in the middle of nowhere right now, video streaming isn't always going to work well here.
Sent from my Evo 3D CDMA using xda app-developers app
Vincent Law said:
That doesn't eliminate it as a cause. The example you saw could have been in better lighting conditions than you thought, or the euro edition might have had older firmware that didn't let the ISO go as high (thus, the whole image would appear much darker, but less noise).
120fps slow motion means the camera has to use at least 120th of a second for a shutter speed. This is relatively fast for a smartphone camera, so it has to bump up the ISO to compensate. If the light is especially low, it will have to move all the way to the upper bounds of its ISO capability to get a usable image. Meanwhile, a 60fps video will have MUCH more time (2x is a lot of time) to grab light, and so it doesn't need to force the ISO so high.
It's extremely unlikely that a firmware update will solve this issue. All they could do is just force the camera not to use that high ISO setting, resulting in slow motion videos that are too dark instead of too noisy.
(Also, BTW, this has nothing to do with the jello effect)
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The euro demo was in CONSIDERABLY worse lighting, without question. I don't have time to look for it now, but it's on Youtube.
The Euro version just got an official update regarding several problems. It also included a low light slomotion video upgrade
Sent from my PG86100 using xda app-developers app
I'm getting a stuck blue pixel when taking photos in low light... is anyone else experiencing this? The blue pixel is showing up in the actual photo taken, so I'm assuming it's a problem with the sensor.
Daylight photos aren't exhibiting this behavior.
We gave our Nexus 5 in the hands of a photographer (friend of mine) for a month, and this is what we get!
Very impressive!
http://www.androidworld.it/2014/01/...i-di-un-fotografo-il-nostro-test-foto-209321/
cisoprogressivo said:
We gave our Nexus 5 in the hands of a photographer (friend of mine) for a month, and this is what we get!
Very impressive!
http://www.androidworld.it/2014/01/...i-di-un-fotografo-il-nostro-test-foto-209321/
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Knowing a thing or two about taking picture taking results in some impressive pictures.
Whodathunkit!
Cirkustanz said:
Knowing a thing or two about taking picture taking results in some impressive pictures.
Whodathunkit!
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yup
There's some pretty severe pink-camera-problem going on in the center of most of the photos.
Wow, these look great.
Getting excited to see if I'll be able to get shots which look are remotely as good
and you had to get a photographer for those shots? :laugh:
anyways, OP has "generating clicks" written all over it.
Nice shots! I especially like how well OIS works on the n5 when taking videos too, much better than the n4.
PoisonWolf said:
There's some pretty severe pink-camera-problem going on in the center of most of the photos.
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I think that issue is pretty common these days, you camera might even produce those with the very same conditions.
Nice Pic's, probably could have been a litter better if it was from a White N5
Grande ciso!
EarlZ said:
I think that issue is pretty common these days, you camera might even produce those with the very same conditions.
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My N4 has it as well, I agree, but not to the extent as observed in those photos.
ghettopops said:
Nice Pic's, probably could have been a litter better if it was from a White N5
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O_O explain
biscuitownz said:
O_O explain
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Auto correct. Little. White N5's are better than the black ones
ghettopops said:
Auto correct. Little. White N5's are better than the black ones
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How are they a little better?
cisoprogressivo said:
We gave our Nexus 5 in the hands of a photographer (friend of mine) for a month, and this is what we get!
Very impressive!
http://www.androidworld.it/2014/01/...i-di-un-fotografo-il-nostro-test-foto-209321/
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I am assuming that your friend bit**ed and moaned about the lack of manual shutter speed and aperture control, default camera app (awful), and in general lack of a manual mode (which is how most pros shoot- manually setting everything).
Disclaimer: I'm a photographer (not the 'I have a DSLR and use AUTO mode and press this thingy' photographer, the 'I have my own successful business' kind) and the lack of manual shutter & aperture is beyond frustrating to me. Sure there are (mostly worthless) apps that give you some control of ISO, WB, burst mode, etc., but without those vital exposure controls (shutter and aperture) to me all smartphone cameras will suck.
I know, I know. It's not a pro level slr... it's a phone...
Of course having stunning locations always helps.
anactoraaron said:
I am assuming that your friend bit**ed and moaned about the lack of manual shutter speed and aperture control, default camera app (awful), and in general lack of a manual mode (which is how most pros shoot- manually setting everything).
Disclaimer: I'm a photographer (not the 'I have a DSLR and use AUTO mode and press this thingy' photographer, the 'I have my own successful business' kind) and the lack of manual shutter & aperture is beyond frustrating to me. Sure there are (mostly worthless) apps that give you some control of ISO, WB, burst mode, etc., but without those vital exposure controls (shutter and aperture) to me all smartphone cameras will suck.
I know, I know. It's not a pro level slr... it's a phone...
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While I agree with you that the default camera app is incredibly awful and lacks many controls, mobile phones are replacing point and shoot cameras, not DSLRs or micro 4/3. Also, most people use photos nowadays for stupid web shots/social/ready-made-filters etc and not for printing or cropping and zooming for the perfect frame.
I replaced my Cannon P&S since I had the HTC One X two years ago, but no mobile will ever replace my Fuji X-A1
anactoraaron said:
(which is how most pros shoot- manually setting everything).
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I don't disagree with you on anything but this - most modern SLR pros I know (less than 100, but many more than 10) do NOT shoot all manual. Most may shoot A-priority or S-priority, or use P mode and wheel their way to the desired blend, but only landscape, product or portrait shooters really can practically go all manual, all the time - you need non-moving subjects and somewhat consistent lighting to rock all manual and get a decent return on your shots.
And let's be fair, manual shooting modes do not make better pictures: better photographers make better pictures.
mr.r9 said:
While I agree with you that the default camera app is incredibly awful and lacks many controls, mobile phones are replacing point and shoot cameras, not DSLRs or micro 4/3. Also, most people use photos nowadays for stupid web shots/social/ready-made-filters etc and not for printing or cropping and zooming for the perfect frame.
I replaced my Cannon P&S since I had the HTC One X two years ago, but no mobile will ever replace my Fuji X-A1
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Click to collapse
I know this and agree with you entirely, but I do have an old Polaroid P&S that allows me to set the shutter speed (like from 1/30-1/200, but no aperture control) and that thing is 5+ years old now. But yeah, the need to own a P&S is mostly non-existent with how good smartphone cameras are getting now. It still wouldn't stop me from griping about the things I mentioned if someone gave me a smartphone to take photos with the expectation of delivering pro quality work though (OP was 'I gave my phone to my pro friend to see what he/she could do').
big_adventure said:
I don't disagree with you on anything but this - most modern SLR pros I know (less than 100, but many more than 10) do NOT shoot all manual. Most may shoot A-priority or S-priority, or use P mode and wheel their way to the desired blend, but only landscape, product or portrait shooters really can practically go all manual, all the time - you need non-moving subjects and somewhat consistent lighting to rock all manual and get a decent return on your shots.
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The only problem I have with P, A, and S priority modes is the reaction time of the camera to lighting conditions - especially outdoors. I particularly have an issue with P mode as most cameras seem to want a neutral/balanced shutter and aperture - like 1/60 @ f8 - whereas I may want 1/125 or faster @ f4.5-6.3 - and it gets worse outdoors (like wanting 1/160 @ f25 instead of 1/800 @ f8 etc) almost necessitating use of S mode if auto operation is desired. It also seems to take too long sometimes for the camera to read the amount of light and adjust the exposure (shutter speed in A mode or aperture in S mode) correctly. Shooting in manual mode for me is easier and better for me as I can read the light and pick a proper shutter, etc. based on conditions where I am shooting without having to worry about being occasionally slightly too bright (concern for a loss of detail being washed out) or too dark (where softness/pixelation comes into play).
But I suppose how you use your camera will vary on what you are taking pictures of. My gripe with the Nexus 5 is that with adequate lighting indoors and having the flash on auto the camera seems to always want to take pictures with the flash off at 1/10 or 1/20 @ f10 ISO ~400 or something like that, and that's just no good with really anything especially pictures of the kids. Why can't I at least just set the shutter? So many blurry pics... I thought there would be more emphasis on getting the camera experience better on a Nexus phone... the sad thing is that the hardware is actually really good for a phone but sadly the software side is woefully behind :crying:
And let's be fair, manual shooting modes do not make better pictures: better photographers make better pictures.
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Absolutely correct.
I always love these posts,
I have been an on again off again professional photographer for over 10 years mostly in industrial photography.
Even once owned an online photography magazine with pros writing articles from around the world.
My first thought is that it never really has much to do with the camera, its the photographer that stands behind this.
The best example I can give you of this, is the gear snobs that say you can't use mirror-less cameras in the professional setting.
Just grab a pro photographer give them a Nikon V1 or a Olympus OM-D and let them go shooting for a day.
As far as not having P/S/A/M modes, it's a phone....
1 in 100 000 people will even know what that is and about a third of those will actually know how to use it.
If we want to talk camera geek for a moment.
Sensor size is 1/3.2″
Aperture is f2.4 (fixed Aperture)
Max iso is 100 - 800
What does this mean?
Low light shots will still be grainy (Tiny sensor doesn't collect enough light)
The Lens is equivalent to about 28mm which if you have a Canon Rebel or a Nikon DXXXX camera it works out to the 18mm on a kit lens.
So why no manual control?
Well with a fixed aperture of 2.4 what can you change?
Well if you know cameras there is something called the exposure triangle, all this means is aperture, shutter speed, iso have to line up just right for an image to be exposed correctly. In A (aperture priority) you only control aperture and iso, S (shutter priority)you only control shutter and iso, and M you control everything. If you can't change the aperture then you can't use these modes.
Any app that says it gives you control of these things are just simulated.
Every photographers favorite word.... Bokeh!
The blur in the background, how to get it on a phone.
First we have to look at two things the 28mm lens and the tiny sensor. The smaller the sensor does not help at all in this case and nether does the focal length. To get Bokeh with your phone you have to get really really close to your subject almost as if your taking a macro shot.
One more trick for you guys if your still reading this, the camera phone is not ideal for taking portraits.
The reason why is at 28mm you get barrel distortion that pulls the center of the image towards the viewer. You can give people longer than usual noses and get strangeness going on. If your going to take a portrait of a person, instead of taking a close up on the face back up a bit. It will help hide this distortion.
Wow didn't mean for this to come out this long but I am at work, and bored.... lol
Hi. I've searched through some of the forum threads and can't find a direct comparison by actual owners so apologies in advance if this has been covered already....
I have a iphone 4s; the camera is good. I have tried to move to a android phone twice now, (HTC one and a Sony Z1 Compact) and was not impressed with the camera on either so I went back to my iphone 4s.
The HTC uses 4k ultra pixels so is good in low light but mediocre in normal daylight.
The Z1 compact camera just seemed flat, slow, blurred and I took several pics with my 4s and the 4s blew the sony out the water, which surprised me given it's age and much lower pixel count. (which I know isn't everything)
I want a compact phone, android with a excellent camera. Has anyone had experience using the Z3 AND the Z1 compacts?
Other than the camera on the Z3 compact which has mixed reviews, I'm very tempted by this phone as its small, has good battery life, decent specs but I'm weary after my bad experience with the Z1 compact.
Can anyone alley my fears or confirm the camera quality?
thanks
rcbmulder said:
much lower pixel count. (which I know isn't everything)
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The higher pixel count is actually counterproductive since each individual cell collects less light and there's additional space between them even increasing the effect (same with high density displays). Unless you do some kind of binning. That's been a trend since at least ten years, my ancient 4MP camera still takes very good low-light shots.
I received my Z3C yesterday so I don't have a lot of experience with it but my first impression is that you will be also disapointed with the camera like you were with the Z1C. Why that? Because I am a disappointed myself. I had the Z1C for 9 months before selling it of the Z3C. I also had the iPhone 4S before and I have to admit that the iPhone is a way more reliable device when it comes to instant photography.
What a pity to embed such a great hardware and not being able to get the most of it.
Rexet...
Thanks for the response. I feared that maybe the case. What a shame. I can't find a decent, small android phone with a top camera.... im hoping the nexus x may be the answer but who knows then that will be released..
iphone 6 (compact) seems to be the logical upgrade but i want to go back to android without sacrificing the camera and refuse to pay what is in my opinion too much for the iphone.
To answer your original question, the z3c camera is MUCH better than the z1ç. This is in both low light, and normal lighting.
HOWEVER my wife ip5s still take better pictures ...
Comparing with Z1 Compact which I had for 6 months, yes it's better with a noticeable margin.
In my opinion, the Z3c (1 week so far) takes roughly the same quality photos as the Z1c (4 months). It's a little snappier and that may be to the slightly faster chipset. The physical button is more sensitive on the Z3c which seems to capture faster.
In both cases, I think the cameras are super competitive with other phones but only if you use manual mode and learn how to shoot with it. You can take some pretty amazing photos with it but Sony makes you work for it. The Superior Auto is crap in my opinion since it often picks the wrong white balance.
Ive both and the z3c is slightly better than the z1c specially at low light. the 12800 ISO actually works (ie z1c == black picture where you see stuff on the z3c)
in bright light its hard to spot any difference.
as for the washed out colors and slight blur look, this is all post processing settings. washed out looking colors generally are actually natural colors. if you change the white balance and sharpness filter they'll look better than the iphone4 pictures.
I compared with colleague's iphone 6. In bright light (ie sun light) they look very similar once the image has been processed for the z3c. Otherwise it does look less contrasted etc. and the iphone6 picture looks better by default. All pics were taken in manual mode, they tend to suck in superior auto...
You can use the Google photo enhance for auto processing if you dont want to do it yourself, it does an okayish job of changing contrast, white balance and sharpness settings.
In low light the z3c is much better than the iphone6.
Hope it gives you an idea. Check the picture thread for samples http://forum.xda-developers.com/z3-...ost-pictures-xperia-z3-compact-t2889119/page5
bilboa1 said:
as for the washed out colors and slight blur look, this is all post processing settings. washed out looking colors generally are actually natural colors. if you change the white balance and sharpness filter they'll look better than the iphone4 pictures.
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Click to collapse
You mean applying a filter after you take the picture, or a setting you can change before and/or during taking a picture?
theres some things you can do while you take the picture, some you can do after. you can actually do the exact same changes after as you can do before except for SCN modes which change the sensor settings.. all other settings appear to be post processing (happening as you take the picture thought).
Most programs will let you do that. I change them in Gimp most of the time, when im lazy and didnt do it in the camera i just use google auto enhance from their photo app.
To look more like the iphones and galaxy phones tho, the settings i generally have to boost are whitebalance (a lot), sharpness (a fair amount) and just a bit of contrast.
I believe you cannot adjust the sharpness within the sony camera app.
With a phone camera, the last thing I want to do...and I bet many others too...is root around with post processing (what the hell??!) and with tweaking in manual mode.
I want to take it out of my pocket and press capture...snap. Done. Like the iphone.
Why is it so hard to do this?
In same position, bought the z3 compact to replace my iPhone 5.
In short, the camera is the only disappointing feature of the phone, and it really is a big disappointment. Washed out colours, terrible shutter lag, slow focus, very soft focus. Have tried all the different camera options (superior auto, different manual options, scenes options) and found nothing adequate yet.
A real shame as I really want to move away from ios, the rest of the phone is superb, if the camera isn't important then it's a fantastic device!
Yep automatic modes arent very good.
Manual modes are okay / mostly on par with competition.. That exludes phones like the lumia 1020 of course. One would hope sony work on the software a bit more in this area
News said z3/z3c camera software will be re-written on Android L(not sure about z1/z1c/z2), so now on 4.4.4 it won't be any better than z1c. I've got a z1c and only played z3c in a local phone store, the phone got faster focus but I think that is pretty much all of this. The quality is just same with Z2, not any better til Android L out. Z3/z3c used a slightly improved cmos(IMX220 vs IMX200) and G lens but you only got better at low light, day time quality has no different at all.
HTC, Samsung, Iphone all got better focus, so they always got a sharper picture and Sony is soft. Speaking for the photo quality, indeed z1/2/3 is real good at low light(when you focus right) and even slightly better than HTC/Samsung/Iphone(this is my experiences and you can notice that from many reviews too) but day time just not that good though acceptable.
TheEndHK said:
News said z3/z3c camera software will be re-written on Android L
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They did? I mean, you're not talking about the extended Android API but Sony's actual camera software?
Iruwen said:
They did? I mean, you're not talking about the extended Android API but Sony's actual camera software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like a source on this as well. It really is a shame that Sony's camera software isn't on par with the rest of this fantastic device despite the superior hardware. I understand manually adjusting the camera is a solution, but for the layperson who doesn't have the time nor the know-how to make those adjustments, a simpler solution is preferred and a revamp/improvement of their software would go a long way in achieving that.
rcbmulder said:
I want a compact phone, android with a excellent camera. Has anyone had experience using the Z3 AND the Z1 compacts?
Other than the camera on the Z3 compact which has mixed reviews, I'm very tempted by this phone as its small, has good battery life, decent specs but I'm weary after my bad experience with the Z1 compact.
Can anyone alley my fears or confirm the camera quality?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my limited experience with the z3c, the camera is very poor when it comes to fine details like trees and leaves etc. If camera performance is important for you, then definitely look elsewhere. Shame on such a good phone otherwise.
radicans said:
In my limited experience with the z3c, the camera is very poor when it comes to fine details like trees and leaves etc. If camera performance is important for you, then definitely look elsewhere. Shame on such a good phone otherwise.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The trees and leaves needs an extremely low compression rate to maintain the fine details because of JPG problem(too old). However, the compression rate is often too high on all Sony phones. RAW image is very possible being a basic requirement on Android L according from Google speaking, so this problem might be solved in the future.
---------- Post added at 01:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:51 AM ----------
Iruwen said:
They did? I mean, you're not talking about the extended Android API but Sony's actual camera software?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not? Android L is a total new OS so Sony is forced to rewrite anythings(though I believe Sony is lazy and actually doesn't want to do it... lol)
---------- Post added at 02:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:57 AM ----------
boojay said:
I'd like a source on this as well. It really is a shame that Sony's camera software isn't on par with the rest of this fantastic device despite the superior hardware. I understand manually adjusting the camera is a solution, but for the layperson who doesn't have the time nor the know-how to make those adjustments, a simpler solution is preferred and a revamp/improvement of their software would go a long way in achieving that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sony keen to Fix Image Algorithms in Xperia Z3
http://smartphonetechie.com/sony-keen-to-fix-image-algorithms-in-xperia-z3/
The SA mode works good to me, the only problem on SA for most people because it very actively detects the handshake and switch to sport mode and turn up shutter speed and ISO in the end, it will ruin the overall quality and may increase/decrease the brightness in a wrong way but it will also help for folks who got seriously handshake.
TheEndHK said:
Sony keen to Fix Image Algorithms in Xperia Z3
http://smartphonetechie.com/sony-keen-to-fix-image-algorithms-in-xperia-z3/
The SA mode works good to me, the only problem on SA for most people because it very actively detects the handshake and switch to sport mode and turn up shutter speed and ISO in the end, it will ruin the overall quality and may increase/decrease the brightness in a wrong way but it will also help for folks who got seriously handshake.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, but from the sounds of it, the fix was supposed to come with the Z3 series, but clearly that never happened. Fingers crossed with Android L then, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
is the camera really that bad, all the reviews say its pretty good, not quite the gold standard iphone 6 level but close enough? The pics posted on this forum from the z3 compact look good too IMO.
Alot of the reviews says, nexus 6 camera experience has been a "hit or miss" from taking a good pic even with HDR on. Would it help to install a new camera app and do some tweakings over it, or better yet use an xposed module (if any) to fix the issue?
I'm a photographer. Here's the thing.
Camera reviews on cell phones are reviewed by gadget freaks, not photographers. They're interested in specs, they think megapixels are important, they don't even mention the important stuff.
Android L is the first OS to have a decent camera api. This will allow the nexus camera - which is only inherently different from the note 4 camera in terms of software - to vastly outperform anything on the market given a good camera app.
This mythical camera app should take advantage of a few things - full manual control. Exposure compensation and AE/AF lock. Auto bracketing. Proper metering, with selections for spot through to matrix. FPS control. Video control with framerate and resolution options, and the ability to manually control or lock exposure and focus. And finally, take advantage of L's .dng output, so we can work on this in lightroom after we're done. I don't trust my $2000 camera to spit out a nice jpg processed the way I want it, I shoot raw, I sure as hell don't trust a phone.
The nexus 6 looks to have some nice hardware. Let the software take advantage of it and you'll be happy.
tripler6 said:
I'm a photographer. Here's the thing.
Camera reviews on cell phones are reviewed by gadget freaks, not photographers. They're interested in specs, they think megapixels are important, they don't even mention the important stuff.
Android L is the first OS to have a decent camera api. This will allow the nexus camera - which is only inherently different from the note 4 camera in terms of software - to vastly outperform anything on the market given a good camera app.
This mythical camera app should take advantage of a few things - full manual control. Exposure compensation and AE/AF lock. Auto bracketing. Proper metering, with selections for spot through to matrix. FPS control. Video control with framerate and resolution options, and the ability to manually control or lock exposure and focus. And finally, take advantage of L's .dng output, so we can work on this in lightroom after we're done. I don't trust my $2000 camera to spit out a nice jpg processed the way I want it, I shoot raw, I sure as hell don't trust a phone.
The nexus 6 looks to have some nice hardware. Let the software take advantage of it and you'll be happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good post. My girlfriend is a photographer but her biggest complaints were:
- The lens should've been bigger (1.5/3 at least - according to her the sheer size of this phone would have allowed for a much bigger lens, even 1.2/3).
- The dual LED flashes would likely overexpose the images due to their placement on the back of the phone. Sure, aesthetically it can look good (depending on your preference) but logically it will risk adding too much exposure to photos. The Note 4, 6+, top Nokia phones with large lenses all have the flashes further away from the lens for example (for good reason).
- The type of flash (LED) wont be as good an xenon flash (or dual). According to her the phone body is definitely thick enough to house the bigger flash; this would reduce noise in the images and provide better lighting/exposure in photos.
She also mentioned that even with a 10/10 camera app which does absolutely everything you want, the photo quality will not be much better (maybe the same as or potentially still worse) compared with the Note 4 or even iPhone 6+. Yes the hardware might be similar but the placement of the flash compared with the Note 4 will affect the way the camera captures photos with flash enabled. As, even though TW in Samsung has major issues it does have very heavily optimised camera software which will always improve - better than every camera app that I personally know of.
Front facing camera however will not complete with the Note 4. From demo's , despite being higher MP than the iPhone 6+, the results are worse. I do not know why, it could be down to the quality of the lens in the front but the Nexus 6 FF camera quality isn't much better than the Nexus 5 (it looks the same to me).
spartanm99 said:
Good post. My girlfriend is a photographer but her biggest complaints were:
- The lens should've been bigger (1.5/3 at least - according to her the sheer size of this phone would have allowed for a much bigger lens, even 1.2/3).
- The dual LED flashes would likely overexpose the images due to their placement on the back of the phone. Sure, aesthetically it can look good (depending on your preference) but logically it will risk adding too much exposure to photos. The Note 4, 6+, top Nokia phones with large lenses all have the flashes further away from the lens for example (for good reason).
- The type of flash (LED) wont be as good an xenon flash (or dual). According to her the phone body is definitely thick enough to house the bigger flash; this would reduce noise in the images and provide better lighting/exposure in photos.
She also mentioned that even with a 10/10 camera app which does absolutely everything you want, the photo quality will not be much better (maybe the same as or potentially still worse) compared with the Note 4 or even iPhone 6+. Yes the hardware might be similar but the placement of the flash compared with the Note 4 will affect the way the camera captures photos with flash enabled. As, even though TW in Samsung has major issues it does have very heavily optimised camera software which will always improve - better than every camera app that I personally know of.
Front facing camera however will not complete with the Note 4. From demo's , despite being higher MP than the iPhone 6+, the results are worse. I do not know why, it could be down to the quality of the lens in the front but the Nexus 6 FF camera quality isn't much better than the Nexus 5 (it looks the same to me).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A lens is proportionate to the sensor. On top of that? It's a fixed lens. They can make those extremely small when we're talking about phone sensors. There is also no mechanical shutter, meaning the lens can be even more compact. This is why mirrorless cameras have small lenses. This of course goes for cell phone lenses in general, but the reason is there's really no need to put a huge lens on a phone.
The dual LED flashes won't overexpose the image, don't worry. In the studio we use a ring flash - same concept - there are some versions that operate as a regular flash, and there's some versions that operate constant on. You can shoot with either. Studio LED lighting is even becoming a thing now, it's cool because you can control the color temp directly and change the brightness.. it's also always on so WYSIWYG. Either way your flash will operate TTL and will not overexpose Xenon - what a hotshoe flash uses - will just use a lot of energy and drain your batteries. LED is very efficient.
The ring flash appears to be too small to have the "ring flash effect", which is uniform lighting around a subject that is popular in fashion and hides blemishes.. I mean it's like the size of a finger. The source of the flash is too small to produce any meaningful difference between the "ring" flash and the regular samsung/iphone flashes. It's going to look about the same. If you see a difference, it's software.
I am just excited about the RAW support in 5.0. I am okay with an f/2.0 aperture on a device in my pocket. If I needed something better, my DSLR has a 50mm f/1.5 which is only a camera bag away
The problem I'm having with my Nexus 6 is lag. That is, I went into my 9 month old's room, and turned on the light. So, okay incandescent lighting, not too bright, but I wouldn't call it 'low-light', either. My little son is standing up in his crib bouncing around, and every now and again turning and smiling at me. I go for the shot with my nice Nexus 6....and in the FOUR SECONDS it takes for the camera to actually take the picture, he's looked away again. I tried several times. Each time, the camera did NOTHING for a few seconds and then took the shot when the window of opportunity was gone. WHAT THE HECK?!?!?! It didn't even look like it was doing any autofocus hunting.
THIS is very depressing. Anyone know of any camera apps that will actually, I don't know, take the picture when I actually ask it to?
Randy
I'm waiting for devs to work their magic on the camera. It has a great sensor (Sony IMX214) so the potential is there. I really wish they could use the G3's software because its great. Is there a way to make the G3's software work on the Nexus for the camera? It processes images really well and is very fast.
rmagruder said:
The problem I'm having with my Nexus 6 is lag. That is, I went into my 9 month old's room, and turned on the light. So, okay incandescent lighting, not too bright, but I wouldn't call it 'low-light', either. My little son is standing up in his crib bouncing around, and every now and again turning and smiling at me. I go for the shot with my nice Nexus 6....and in the FOUR SECONDS it takes for the camera to actually take the picture, he's looked away again. I tried several times. Each time, the camera did NOTHING for a few seconds and then took the shot when the window of opportunity was gone. WHAT THE HECK?!?!?! It didn't even look like it was doing any autofocus hunting.
THIS is very depressing. Anyone know of any camera apps that will actually, I don't know, take the picture when I actually ask it to?
Randy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have HDR+ enabled? If so that's why your focus takes so long. It's taking 3 pictures in a row and is great for still images. I find the camera with HDR+ off plenty fast.
---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------
On another note is raw format already being supported on the 6 or is it coming in an update. I'm no photographer but I'm extremely pleased how well the camera functions. I've only had nexus devices. The last phone I had with a decent camera was the Nokia n 5
Smallsmx3 said:
Do you have HDR+ enabled? If so that's why your focus takes so long. It's taking 3 pictures in a row and is great for still images. I find the camera with HDR+ off plenty fast.
---------- Post added at 01:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:15 PM ----------
On another note is raw format already being supported on the 6 or is it coming in an update. I'm no photographer but I'm extremely pleased how well the camera functions. I've only had nexus devices. The last phone I had with a decent camera was the Nokia n 5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, HDR+ was NOT on, nor was the flash. I just wanted it to snap the stupid picture with as little muss n fuss as possible
I extracted the lib files and camera apk/odex from my g3 is there anything else I would need to make it work? I can get the framework from my system files if needed. I want to see if this will help the camera at all considering it had a lot of potential.
Pilz said:
I extracted the lib files and camera apk/odex from my g3 is there anything else I would need to make it work? I can get the framework from my system files if needed. I want to see if this will help the camera at all considering it had a lot of potential.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let us know how it goes
rmagruder said:
No, HDR+ was NOT on, nor was the flash. I just wanted it to snap the stupid picture with as little muss n fuss as possible
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then something is broken on your phone. Completely stock N6, not even root let alone disabling encryption, without HDR+ or Flash... the phone takes pictures within half a second every time.
Smallsmx3 said:
Let us know how it goes
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's still FC's even after I moved the camera.apk and camera.odex into the system/app and I wrote over the Nexus's libs with the G3's. I'm not sure why its FC's maybe I can install the framework.apk from my G3 and see if that works.
Try some low light shots....
tripler6 said:
I'm a photographer. Here's the thing.
Camera reviews on cell phones are reviewed by gadget freaks, not photographers. They're interested in specs, they think megapixels are important, they don't even mention the important stuff.
Android L is the first OS to have a decent camera api. This will allow the nexus camera - which is only inherently different from the note 4 camera in terms of software - to vastly outperform anything on the market given a good camera app.
This mythical camera app should take advantage of a few things - full manual control. Exposure compensation and AE/AF lock. Auto bracketing. Proper metering, with selections for spot through to matrix. FPS control. Video control with framerate and resolution options, and the ability to manually control or lock exposure and focus. And finally, take advantage of L's .dng output, so we can work on this in lightroom after we're done. I don't trust my $2000 camera to spit out a nice jpg processed the way I want it, I shoot raw, I sure as hell don't trust a phone.
The nexus 6 looks to have some nice hardware. Let the software take advantage of it and you'll be happy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any chance for Slo Mo video (at least 120fps) with this "mythical camera app"?
rmagruder said:
Try some low light shots....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I found this thread after searching for a better camera for my n6. Realized after reading your post that it is the low light shots that suffer from severe shutter lag. Pics in good light are perfect. Ugh. My original moto x Dev. Took awesome pics compared to this low light garbage
Cwoomer said:
I found this thread after searching for a better camera for my n6. Realized after reading your post that it is the low light shots that suffer from severe shutter lag. Pics in good light are perfect. Ugh. My original moto x Dev. Took awesome pics compared to this low light garbage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The pics are great when you are in a very well lit place. The moment you start to lose even a little light (semi lit), the camera really struggles. I'm very disappointed to start, but I'm going to stay patient and wait for Google to fix this.
Pilz said:
I'm waiting for devs to work their magic on the camera. It has a great sensor (Sony IMX214) so the potential is there. I really wish they could use the G3's software because its great. Is there a way to make the G3's software work on the Nexus for the camera? It processes images really well and is very fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The G3 is the best camera on a phone because of the hardware.. not sure if the software has much to do with it because I've switched camera apps on that phone many times and the pics still come out amazing
dannieloco said:
The G3 is the best camera on a phone because of the hardware.. not sure if the software has much to do with it because I've switched camera apps on that phone many times and the pics still come out amazing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The G3 uses the IMX135 sensor while the Nexus uses the IMX214 which is a better sensor. So in theory the Nexus 6 is capable of better photos if the software can back it up. The G3 still uses the lib's and framework from LG no matter what camera app you are using from what I understand.
Anyone know anything about the Slo Mo capabilities? Im wanting to buy the N6 but the Slo Mo feature is really important to me. Hopefully it is possible with the sensor which everyone seems to regard as a pretty high quality sensor.
Say "cheese", then rate this thread to express how photos taken with the Moto G4 Plus come out. A higher rating indicates that photos offer rich color (without over-saturating), sharp detail (with all subjects in-focus), and appropriate exposure (with even lighting).
Then, drop a comment if you have anything to add!
Above average
is it that good?
I keep seeing reviews and comments talking about the great quality of this camera (above the average, at the level of high end...), however, my phone does not cope very well with some situations and I do not know why. Is it defective? is it low light? I am going to post some images but right now I am going to describe the behaviour.
For some reason the main camera struggles a lot when taking pictures of thing in movement. I does not expect a shutter speed of 1/1000 but I cannot make my son to be more steady either. The image seems focused except the moving part which is always blurry. This happens in low light but also in conditions which I consider good light (exteriors, rooms with 25W LED + side lamp...)
The front camera IMHO does not deserve any compliment, it struggles a lot to focus, more than half the pictures are blurry and/or out of focus, most of them have a lot of noise like in low light. It is a bit better after turning on the flash in screen but, again, is this normal?
I will thank any comment on this.
Picture 1_room_with_side_ window_light.jpg: Room with a side window where you do not need to turn the lights on for things like writing or sewing.
Pictures 2 and 3 has very good light in my opinion and the camera struggles.
4 and 5 are made with the front camera and both are below the standard IMHO.
1of3isgood shows how I needed 3 pictures to take one OK
sunlight shows how the camera struggel even with sunlight in the scene
whatIexpect are 2 very good photos this is what I expect
I have to say, the camera is at least VERY inconsistent on it results. It is capable of a lot but it only demonstrates some times
What do you think?
I honestly think that the camera on the Moto G could have been much better. I like the camera APP interface itself, but the photo quality is mediocre. Aside from picture quality, anyone notices their camera lens getting scratched up? Mine is.
You're right.
foxaxel said:
I keep seeing reviews and comments talking about the great quality of this camera (above the average, at the level of high end...), however, my phone does not cope very well with some situations and I do not know why. Is it defective? is it low light? I am going to post some images but right now I am going to describe the behaviour.
For some reason the main camera struggles a lot when taking pictures of thing in movement. I does not expect a shutter speed of 1/1000 but I cannot make my son to be more steady either. The image seems focused except the moving part which is always blurry. This happens in low light but also in conditions which I consider good light (exteriors, rooms with 25W LED + side lamp...)
The front camera IMHO does not deserve any compliment, it struggles a lot to focus, more than half the pictures are blurry and/or out of focus, most of them have a lot of noise like in low light. It is a bit better after turning on the flash in screen but, again, is this normal?
I will thank any comment on this.
Picture 1_room_with_side_ window_light.jpg: Room with a side window where you do not need to turn the lights on for things like writing or sewing.
Pictures 2 and 3 has very good light in my opinion and the camera struggles.
4 and 5 are made with the front camera and both are below the standard IMHO.
1of3isgood shows how I needed 3 pictures to take one OK
sunlight shows how the camera struggel even with sunlight in the scene
whatIexpect are 2 very good photos this is what I expect
I have to say, the camera is at least VERY inconsistent on it results. It is capable of a lot but it only demonstrates some times
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not good as described in media
The photo quality is not as described. Image stabilization seems just not there are or not working properly.
Photo quality is good only if still photos are taken during day time with more light in. That is all.
But for the cost of around $200 its a good phone but not a camera phone.
How do I access camera debug options?
As far as I'm concerned the camera quality is really above average. Your problem seems to find his cause elsewhere.
To keep it simple, your photos may be blurry because of the lack of light indoor. Smartphone are known to have small objective (while real camera have big one) that can't gather a lot of light by themselve. It means that you'll have to sacrifice quality if the environnement is not well lit. In this case, you're phone try to make up for the lack of light by gathering more light before taking the photo which cause a more blurry photo. You can also manually set it to take it faster but you'll have to use a higher iso (which mean more noise).
If you want a good photo you need :
- light (even for a galaxy S7)
- A good objective (also the bigger the better but we're on a smartphone so...)
- A clean objective (I can't stress how this matter ! Even more if we consider that it's really use to put à finger on the objective of the moto g4)
Here you go, hope it helped, if you want to test your camera to see if it has some problem you should do it outdoor with the sun at zenith and some cloud to avoid bad shadows and blinding effects.
kayet95 said:
As far as I'm concerned the camera quality is really above average. Your problem seems to find his cause elsewhere.
To keep it simple, your photos may be blurry because of the lack of light indoor. Smartphone are known to have small objective (while real camera have big one) that can't gather a lot of light by themselve. It means that you'll have to sacrifice quality if the environnement is not well lit. In this case, you're phone try to make up for the lack of light by gathering more light before taking the photo which cause a more blurry photo. You can also manually set it to take it faster but you'll have to use a higher iso (which mean more noise).
If you want a good photo you need :
- light (even for a galaxy S7)
- A good objective (also the bigger the better but we're on a smartphone so...)
- A clean objective (I can't stress how this matter ! Even more if we consider that it's really use to put à finger on the objective of the moto g4)
Here you go, hope it helped, if you want to test your camera to see if it has some problem you should do it outdoor with the sun at zenith and some cloud to avoid bad shadows and blinding effects.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your answer kayet95. The main point is that the camera is not reliable enough and you end up taking 5 pictures each time just to be sure one will be fine. Of course with the lighting you suggest the camera does well, it would be a complete rubbish if not, but take a look at my attachment sunlight. The window was fully open, there where sun coming into the scene and the camera struggled once.
I agree the camera is capable of taking great pictures, but it is nor reliable.
My experience is that the camera in G4Plus is above average for a phone. I think that who expects more is delusional, you need to buy a real camera to take good pictures - in low light or with any level of zoom.
One that I clicked this morning
just wanting to share a photo taken by my Moto G4 plus .
No special Arrangement , everything on Auto
I love this camera.... Sunny day and auto mode....
---------- Post added at 10:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------
Another one. Raining and almost running by night. Just shot under the rain.... lot of noise but the connditions were really bad!!
SoNic67 said:
My experience is that the camera in G4Plus is above average for a phone. I think that who expects more is delusional, you need to buy a real camera to take good pictures - in low light or with any level of zoom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree 100%. :good:
This camera is very good for a phone camera, especially one of this price. To expect high quality pix from it in every lighting or motion situation is simply ludicrous.
Two more photos:
One tree
Royal Palace, Madrid, Spain
the color quality is good, but sometimes i cant take a picture, might be my hand is wet, or the phone lagging
The camera is capable of good pictures, however mine seem inconsistent. Sometimes take the same shot a couple times to get good one, even in good lighting. I upgraded from last year's moto g, and consistently got excellent pictures with it.
Overall I feel the camera on the g4 plus isn't quite as good as last year's moto g. I was really expecting better.
hi , i use OpenCamera and it`s much better.