Database Develop

HTCClassAction.org - October 9, 2008 - Kaiser / Polaris / Nike

The site is up and running, discussion here!

Frontpage is done, see http://www.htcclassaction.org/. Feel free to comment. None of the other pages on the site are done yet, though.

I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...

There isn't really a point to the petition, as companies don't really care. There probably isn't a big point with a class action lawsuit either, as it's entirely possible we won't win. It is something that should be investigated, as ultimately, it's just a way of applying pressure, getting publicity and raising awareness.
And nope, I'm not a former employee, but I am disgruntled by the way HTC is treating us.

Looks very good!

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
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Click to collapse
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?

jackleung said:
What about people who already use their hard earned money and brought the device already?
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The most basic rule when buying a PDA: Only buy what you know youre getting, not what you think youre getting. I learnt that the hard way three years ago,its the same game all over. I think its an annual event.

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
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Click to collapse
Maybe you should read the main thread before posting crap like this. There are plenty of people, including myself who think a class action suite would be a good idea. Even if we didn't win or had no real grounds for one, the negative feedback alone could cause HTC to do something about the driver support.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=339745

Vukile said:
I understand the point of a petition, but a lawsuit? Why dont you get a Nokia or something,get your mind off things,cool down. I think youre coming across as a disgruntled former employee about to go postal.schitzo...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As Chainfire mentioned, petitions never work. This is because people eventually "cool off" and stop caring that they've been ripped off.
If I paid a lot less for my Kaiser, I wouldn't care as much that it's being outperformed by the older cheaper HTC models. We paid an arm and leg for these costly phones, we'd expect them to at least give us the basics (drivers).
How would you feel if you bought some fancy & expensive graphics board only to have to use the generic drivers that come with your OS?
Chainfire, great work. Let us know when you've set up the paypal account.

Oh, by the way, wonderful site Chainfire. It has all the info needed in one neatly organized site.

Excellent site Chainfire. If this is indicative of the effort you put into things, my previous (and future) donations have been well spent!! Very clear and to the point.
I posted a link on the "Proper video drivers...." sticky to a Google page tlaking about the bright new future of Android. Just wondered if it is worth highlighting to visitors to the site that HTC is one of the core companies developing this - perhaps if they realise HTC's attitude will affect more than just the current devices. Or maybe they won't care as most casual browsers don't know what Android is? Ah, I don't know.
Hey, if we draw public attention to all this, and then someone manages to address the issue here on XDA-devs, could that cause problems - infringment of copyright etc?

I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter. What do 99% of people do with their Kaisers anyway? There are lots of people around me where I work that use Windows smart phones and they are happy to get their push mail, GPS, bluetooth, whatever. I think they could care less about video drivers.
I'm not saying I wouldn't like to have some video acceleration, but most users probably could care less. We are the minority.
I think raising awareness is a great idea. Perhaps listing those manufactures that actually support their WinMo devices with proper drivers is even better, so potential buyers would know to spend their money else wehere.
I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things.
If you bought an unlocked Kaiser and spend a large bit of cash, well you take the first movers risk. No reason anyone couldn't wait to see what others though of the device before purchasing it.
You certainly can't will things into existence. Can't buy an HTC phone and wish into existence some drivers that it never had in the first place.
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
I'm not trying to ruin anyones plans or desires to get the most out of their phones, but why not just not buy the phone?
I for one look forward to something like Android, so hobbiests and consumers can put the features they want to exploit in to place on phones like the Kaiser. I hope this drastically changes the market and gives us more choice in our software, and forces manufacturers to do more than the bare minimum with these devices.
-James

jmacdonald801 said:
As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some.
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Well, given older HTC devices never mentioned video acceleration in their specs either and that they're certainly performing better than the Kaiser, I think it's fair to expect performance which at the very least matches that of former models.

I got my Kaiser as a Tilt from AT&T. I had 30 days to return it. I was given ample opportunity to play with it, install software, and make my complaint. I kept the device. No one was being forced to buy these things...
...As much as I would like video acceleration, I'm not sure where it is that HTC specifically stated their would be some. GPS, pushmail, Pocket IE, it all pretty much works as expected. I understand that the qualcomm chipset may certainly be capable of video acceleration, but that doesn't mean that it was a specific feature that HTC was going after when it made the Kaiser.
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I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.

jomo25 said:
I hate to say it, but jmac makes very good points. Awareness is fine. Negative publicity might cause some action. but such a lawsuit isn't very winnable here since there were no real explicit promises broken here. Any "promises borken" were more hopes and expectations that were not made by the manufacturer.
But who knows, this being a very HTC centric forum, it could make them take a little notice, but most likely this isn't a winnable case.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, as stated elsewhere, it's mostly a pressure and publicity tool. In the end, if we do do the case, it doesn't even really matter if we win it. The publicity and awareness it will generate... There's the headology factor. People are happy using a gadget. People learn the gadget can do a lot more then it does. People are unhappy using the gadget. People complain about the gadget. Creator of gadget fixes gadget
Mark my words, if enough attention is given to this, HTC will do the right thing, if only to save face.

Great site so far Chainfire. I pray that this brings enough attention to move HTC to action. Without those drivers, I can compare this to buying a Corvette only to realize once on the road that the governor is set to 30mph.

Satus update
Status update:
The site is almost finished and uploaded, apart from the "Responses from HTC" section.
- Please read the 'drivers in detail' page and tell me what you think
- Please help me collect 'carrier branded' names of the devices in question
I have also setup a paypal address for donations for the AdWords campaign only, you can find a button on the "What you can do" page. I already put 100 euro's in there myself, and it's been getting extra visitors for almost an hour now.
Before I finish the "Responses from HTC" part, start submitting to slashdot, digg, etc, it's time for dinner

you might want to add the htc vogue/sprint touch to your list on htcclassaction.org, it suffers the same problem and i believe it has a similar chipset with the same 3d hardware.
i think htc will just say,well just because the chipset we use has 3d hardware built in doesn't mean we have to enable or support it because it was never advertised as such.

I'd have to download and extract a ROM to be sure though, I'll do that later.

jmacdonald801 said:
I don't understand the point of this petition, or a law suite for that matter.
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What he said...but I am a little under the influence right now. To be honest, my phone works for GPS, works for email, works for web browsing, sync's via activesync, plays movies just fine (no slider issues when adjusting sound), allows me to read ebooks, works with office mobile (though I would like to be able to save Word documents as .DOC files, not .DOCX). Guess I'm with the 99% because I really don't see any issues with the phone that cause me to get on a soapbox. I really don't care if this makes me unpopular, but I'm so sick of people coming on this forum and moaning about video driver issues. Show me one other device that does all the things that a Kaiser can do? iPhone, no GPS and limited open source unless you want to run the risk of bricking the device, Nokia? Please, I had the 9xxx series of communicators for years. I had the choice between the latest comunicator series or the Kaiser, I went with the Kaiser as Symbian sucked. The N95, QWERTY keyboard???
This phone is not designed as a graphics device, its a business tool. If you want DVD quality movies, buy a portable DVD player, graphic intensive games, get a PSP. I have a Nokia 2110 mobile from 10 years ago that can't handle MID files, a Garmin Sat-Nav the size of a house brick and a digital camera that uses 3.5" floppy discs cause memory cards hadn't been invented when it was launched. HTC have packed an MP3 player, sat-nav, laptop computer, digital camera, mobile phone (...the list goes on) inside a device the size of a packet of cigarettes. Personally I think this is amazing, lets give them a bit of credit for doing this!
[/drunk rant off...]

Raising awareness of the hardware acceleration issue

So, we now have HTCclassaction.org and HTCdriver.com - excellent work guys!
But we can all do more to raise awareness of this problem, and hopefully convice HTC that they need to look after end-users or eventually enough people will know that when they buy an HTC product, they can forget any form of after-sales care.
There are other fora out there that are posting misleading reviews of the TyTN 2 that do nothing to inform potential buyers - these are the people who need to know about this, as their loss is the only thing HTC will notice. Granted, it is a great phone, and I for do not regret buying it. But people should at least be aware of the problems before they buy.
HTCClub forum has a glowing review with no mention of any problems. Perhaps some responses to the author's review might be in order:
http://forum.htcclub.net/en/viewforum.php?id=206
We can also post reviews on reseller websites, to heighten awareness. I have posted a review on Expansys.co.uk, but their reviews are moderated so I'll wait and see if they post it. But if we start contradicting, or at least correcting, reviews on consumer review websites where possible, the reviewers have to take notice. And once they start giving poor reviews to HTC products, HTC in turn have to take notice.
One more thing: I found the following site earlier today:
http://www.theunwired.net/?item=expansion-htc-opens-first-htc-care-customer-service-center-in-taiwan
What I found particularly interesting was the following quote from Fred Lui, Chief Operating Officer for HTC:
"HTC believes that providing superior after-sales support is important to our continuing success, which is why we place such a high degree of importance on HTC Care."
Anyone feel they have seen "superior after-sales support"? Perhaps if people living in Taipei could pop down to the HTC Care Centre and raise the issue direct with them, we might have more luck?
On a side note, Fred Lui is responsible for day-to-day operations and directing HTC's global operations. It seems his is the attention we need to attract. Question is how?
Anyway, long enough post, so I will finish up now.

Driver issue in the News!!!!

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
Was kind of surprised to see this front page on the register.

rascalion said:
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/01/17/htc_chipset_anger/
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tha ball is starting to roll. great.

They've asked for people to let them know if they've had a problem. Best we all in get in touch, methinks. If they get another 4000 people complaining directly to them, it'll be more negative press for HTC, and it's more likely that they'll have to do something about it.

this is great. and other news sites checking their competitors will hopefuly se the post and write about it more.

Tweakers.net reports the same problem on the frontpage.
It's a rather big community for The Netherlands and Belgium.
I hope more prestigious websites will follow just to make HTC clear it's a major problem which needs a good solution right away.

Their trying to stall for time, but great response so far!
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.

thats Good
wow..it seem a good sign..we will get our driver fix..soon..yeahh

Now we just need to forward these news articles/coverage to HTC to make sure THEY know that their asses are in the spotlight now. It would be great if we could get additional coverage on even bigger sites and networks. This is how a lot of battles against big corporations are fought by us little people today; by going to news sources to spread the word.
Hurray for my first post!

Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It

Sounds great!

they better start this driver and release it soon otherwise they are most definitly looking at a lawsuite.

mackaby007 said:
Absolutely fabulous! Great support so far from other major Pocket PC websites. I'm delighted already. At this pace HTC will have to do a lot better than to ask for stupid e-mails detailing what has been made very clear to them already!
Don't fall for the time wasting e-mails friends. If you do send one, why not simply direct them to http://www.htcclassaction.org/ for a detailed explanation of our problems encountered.
If we do this any other way, they will only look at how many of these registered devices are HTC branded and try to diminish responsibility of all the other Network branded Kaiser's that they produced.
Our Serial numbers and other ref numbers is irrelevant to the problem, as is our ROM details. We switched ROMs because of these issues and we still have them!
For those who know what I'm saying please explain in better ways than I have. I'm not too good with words.
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I understand where you are coming from and I don't mean to be insulting but your post is very contra productive.
Just forwarding a website to them will not get their attention.
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues. b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
I know it sounds stupid but this is how tech support works at major companies.
They don't have time to listen to nuts who have tweaked their units to the max and fire off an e-mail asking for a driver. They need to know what the symptoms of the supposed issue are. How to reproduce the issues and they need to filter out all factors that can be attributed to user fault or third party software.
Again, you might certainly think it's stupid but let's face it we have nothing to gain by not playing by their rules when it comes to error reporting. Nothing, nada, zip, zilch.

just to get the story out there some more i've sent a mail/contacted te following to try get some more exposure:
bbc
itn
thesun
thetimes
pocketpcmag (also posted on their forums)
here's hoping this will gather momentum....

Nice to see the pressreleases we (HTCClassAction.org) have sent out are having this effect. Let's just hope more sites pick it up!
theflash42 said:
Even better would be if every one from this board Diggs the story forcing it around the internet. This link should work.
Digg It
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It would be MUCH more useful if you Digg the site that is spearheading it all:
Digg HTCClassAction.org

i highly doubt htc will fix these issues.. i smell a new phone coming our way soon! (6months)

For All
Hello,
Look an another article for Plaint of HTC driver.
http://www.theinquirer.fr/2008/01/1...s_graphiques_de_mobiles_htc.html#comment-9498
Please post your Comment at the end of the page of this web site !!!
Found it on google.news
Private69.
@++++

It shouldn't be just about the 'driver issue', it should be more towards producing a quality product, and not a defective product, and their 'current ethics' involved in pushing a product out the door before it is ready to impress investors with bottom line figures and ultimately producing a defective product.

Long time ago, two review sites already complained about the lag:
http://www.wirelessinfo.com/content/AT-T-Tilt-Cell-Phone-Review.htm
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_tytn_2-review-181.php
It's not news to HTC. They're just sandbagging.

undac said:
Admitting you are using homebrew ROMs will make them ignore you.
For HTC to take the issue seriously (I've stated this in numerous posts by now) they need:
1. People calling them first and foremost. E-mail is secondary.
2. a) People describing symptoms of these issues.
b) The issues should preferebly be described when using the pre-loaded applications.
3. That users stick to the pre-loaded ROM/Radio.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is probably true but if you check the specs on the Qulacomm chip, it purportedly has support for common Windows video formats as well, that should play under Windows Media Player such as the AVI files that my cheapo camera records. If you do contact them this is probaby enough information on the video aspect that we need to supply (AVI files on WMP). In fact, I'll have to dig up my camera encode specs as this is very telling. I am sure the chip in my camera has no where near the horpower of the Kaiser chip. In addition, it cost less than $200.
As for the ROM, I would guess they might question this as well. Although it is not a likely culpret, it does make their support job a lot more difficult and I could see where they might take the easy road and dismiss the issue as user created. However, in my case I installed a ROM that is actually closer to the HTC shipped ROM. So if they tested their ROM, and the hardware differences are minimal (I think the front side camera is the only real difference), the possibilty that the issue is related to the updated ROM is pretty slim.
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?

jgermuga said:
At any rate, I think there is plenty of evidence that both the stock shipped HTC ROM and the stock sipped AT&T ROM have this issue. There have also been plenty of complaints coming from the other side of the pond, so if ALL ROM appear to show this problem, it is a moot point, no?
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In your eyes, yes.
In the techie kind of guys eyes, yes.
In HTCs eyes, no.
In the eys of the casual observer, no.
It's not ourselves we have to convince, it's HTC. And we can only do that by playing their game. No matter how silly and cumbersome you think it is.
HTC doesn't have to and shouldn't have to support a modified ROM no matter how good the user thinks it is.
Nor can they be responsible for third party software unless it's very obvious that the third party software works great on all but their products. (Which in turn makes it easier to just skip the third party step and give HTC input based on their pre-loaded software.)
As I said, I'm not saying your opinion about the sillyness of it all is wrong or unjustified. I'm just saying it's contra productive to the cause.
Even though HTC has many reports, seen petitions, the looming threat of a lawsuit etc. the holy grail of any company such as this is till support tickets. Once their systems is swamped with tickets containing the same problem enough times that's when they start acting.
I know this because:
a) I worked tech support for similair companies when I was younger.
b) I've handled numerous cases like these before. And I used to try your approach, it simply never works.
c) I worked as an editor and I've interviewed several support managers and such.
There's no point in acting based upon how you want things to work. If a result is what you need, rather than just to blow off steam, you need to work the system and play by their rules.
Again, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I just strongly advice against it as I think it would do more harm than good here.

Who wants to be in podcast/video show?

Attention Mods/XDA staff. We have permission from svetius to post this here. I wasn't sure about doing this either, so I made sure to ask first. We will not directly link to our site so that we do not leech traffic from XDA. We aren't trying to compete with XDA either. We are looking for interns/unpaid staff interested in tech and mobile news, so the job board doesn't fit us.
Alright guys, here's the deal. I'm looking for video/podcast personalities for a website I'm involved in. The site is Install or Not dot com. I'm not linking to it directly so we don't get in trouble with XDA by leeching their traffic.
If you are interested in becoming a personality and can commit to several hours a week in recording audio and/or video, please post a reply here, and we'll talk about it.
There are three unpaid positions available at the moment. We're looking for video personalities, podcast personalities, and media editors. Requirements for the positions are listed below. You may be able to do more than one thing if you want to and are good enough.
All positions must adhere to the following rules:
- You MUST be able to commit at least five hours per week to recording and researching the shows.
- Media editors may need to commit ten or so hours, depending on skill if they are doing shows as well. You need to be available during the week and on weekends.
- You must be able to work within the site guidelines that we set.
- You must be able to be fair and unbias in your discussions. I don't care if you hate Windows Phone, iOS, or Android. You have to be a fair reporter.
To apply for a spot, please prepare a sample of your ability for me to preview.
Podcast sample should feature you talking about two different articles of your choosing for a minimum of ten minutes. Podcasts are meant for spinning out the news and discussing it with others. Try to put your own spin on the news. Make it entertaining. It doesn't need to be funny, it just needs to hold my attention. Feel free to work on submissions as a team if you know other people who want to be involved.
Video samples should follow the same guidelines as the podcast. I'd prefer to see a ten minute video of you talking about a few articles or topics that interest you. Videos are more generally targeted than podcasts. Again, this needs to be interesting and entertaining. it does not need to be funny, it just needs to hold the viewer's attention. Videos are solo pieces.
Editors should either team up with others who are submitting clips, or make a work on their own from the podcast and video guidelines. If you have prior experience in editing, you may submit any prior work as well, so long as it is appropriate. (no porn )

FYI: The positions are unpaid internships.
Site guidelines are set by myself and the owner. They may change from time to time, but you will always know in advance. Generally, just use common sense. It's not MTV or Cinemax; it's a tech news blog.
We don't want excessive profanity in any media on the site. A few bad words throughout the media is fine, but nothing excessive, and nothing horrible. If you can't say it on cable TV, you can't say it on our site either.
Be open to new ideas and other operating systems or OEMs. I don't care how much iOS pisses you off, or how bad Samsung screwed you over on a phone. You will report on the news in a fair and balanced manner. This includes reporting on iOS, Apple, Motorola, RIM, webOS, Symbian, and anything else you can think of that might make you cringe. If you can't wrap your head around being fair to everyone, do not apply.

I too being involved in the site can say, this may look like not such an appealing postition for now, as it's unpaid - but we will surely value your contribution, which can in future but you on our regular team.
Some of the incentives of doing the job are:
Attend tech events
Gadgets to review
Meet big shots of the tech arena
Make a name and get fame for yourself
Adds value to your CV, which employer would not like a person who is popular on the internet ? This might become your full time job, who knows ?
A business card with a fancy position
An identity which can never be erased, yes that's the beauty of the internet - you might be gone and forgotten in the world, but on the internet your name and work will always stay !
And some other perks too, which I'd rather not mention on a public domain.
Besides, I would also like to tell you, you don't need to be a pro at anything to do this job, just be enthusiastic, dedicated and responsible - though you should know tech and shall be able to speak english !
Age, Nationality, Location, Occupation or Gener all of those do not matter as far as you can do the job !
So hit us up if you think you are in for it !
PS: If you think, audio or video is a bit too steep you can even write for us

Bump to the top.

Okay guys. I would like to participate in it. As you previously said that we can even write articles for you, I might be interested
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

Back to the top.
If you guys know anyone who might be interested in doing this, please send them here as well.

Bump to the top, for the interested lot ! Send those PMs right away

Bumpity bump bump

boborone said:
Bumpity bump bump
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Interested, or just sending to the top?
We're looking for news writers as well.

cajunflavoredbob said:
Interested, or just sending to the top?
We're looking for news writers as well.
Click to expand...
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Too ugly for on air but yes I am interested in a writer position. Unpaid is completely fine with me. Plus a bump for old xda'er buds.

Verge fantastic journalism

Seriously after watching this video .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66-4uMQqerA&feature=youtube_gdata_player. I don't remember anyone who covered it so professionally oh well I really enjoyed it..
Sent from my GT-N7100 using xda app-developers app

I totally agree!

The Verge is awesome. Best Tech site ever...besides XDA of course...

Not to bash on the verge by any means. But its more like Google invited them and did this video as a replacement for the NY event that was cancelled.
I don't see it as journalism. A Google sponsored infomercial is more like it honestly.
Probably did not want to change the launch date. No time to get a another venue & date. Don't want to do webcast event with only a couple people present. Do something like this with the verge.

For unbiased reviews my top sites are :
- Anandtech
- Heelsandtech
- Gigaom
Other than that I take the 2nd tier sites like theverge, engadget, etc with a grain of salt.

I think they must have been invited earlier, maybe last week, and they just asked them not to publish the video until after they announced the device.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk 2

ap3604 said:
For unbiased reviews my top sites are :
- Anandtech
- Heelsandtech
- Gigaom
Other than that I take the 2nd tier sites like theverge, engadget, etc with a grain of salt.
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Anandtech is definitely bias.

osi13 said:
Anandtech is definitely bias.
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you straight crazy son
Anandtech is one of the most unbiased review sites ever. The scientific analysis he does, instead of just simply regurgitating the spec list and saying if he like's it or not the way so many other tech sites do, is above all else.

albundy2010 said:
Not to bash on the verge by any means. But its more like Google invited them and did this video as a replacement for the NY event that was cancelled.
I don't see it as journalism. A Google sponsored infomercial is more like it honestly.
Probably did not want to change the launch date. No time to get a another venue & date. Don't want to do webcast event with only a couple people present. Do something like this with the verge.
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I highly doubt they recorded that after the event was cancelled. Most likely they were going to release it today whether the event took place or not and released it as soon as they were allowed by Google.
---------- Post added at 11:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 PM ----------
ap3604 said:
you straight crazy son
Anandtech is one of the most unbiased review sites ever. The scientific analysis he does, instead of just simply regurgitating the spec list and saying if he like's it or not the way so many other tech sites do, is above all else.
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Click to collapse
Anandtech is good at technical reviews but not necessarily real world reviews.

ap3604 said:
I take the 2nd tier sites like theverge, engadget, etc with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...
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I agree. Websites that do reviews have to make revenue so they are bias regardless or at least restricted on the amount of negativity, otherwise they won't receive new phones from the same carrier/manufacture in the future.

Lol at people getting mad that review sites are biased. Of course they are! What do you expect, a glorified press release? That's not journalism at all. Journalism is suppose to be critical and investigative.
The only reason Anandtech is unbiased is because their reviews are more like scientific tests: charts, numbers, quantifiable stuff. Once you start asking them whether you like or dislike the phone, it turns BIASED. I personally don't give two ****zus about numbers and graphs. I want an educated opinion from a geek about whether he likes a phone or not, someone who has handled more than one phone and can make comparisons on a whole host of questions.
It's when the fanboys get angry that their baby wasn't reviewed positively that they start screaming bias. As long as reviewers support their opinions in detail and remain respectful (unlike Gizmodo when they **** all over Blackberry for not sending them a review unit or gave their Nokia N8 to a person who could barely type), it's all good. When they act disrespectful and start throwing insults, place double-standards, and have terrible supporting evidence, do you say, now that is TRULLY BIASED BS.
Here are some ****zu-y sites I've come across:
NokiaBlog, WMPowerUser, WPCentral (duh)
AndroidCentral, AndroidCommunity, Android_______ (double duh)
Gizmodo (no allegiance. Just tabloid fare to provoke and garner hits)

katamari201 said:
Lol at people getting mad that review sites are biased. Of course they are! What do you expect, a glorified press release? That's not journalism at all. Journalism is suppose to be critical and investigative.
The only reason Anandtech is unbiased is because their reviews are more like scientific tests: charts, numbers, quantifiable stuff. Once you start asking them whether you like or dislike the phone, it turns BIASED. I personally don't give two ****zus about numbers and graphs. I want an educated opinion from a geek about whether he likes a phone or not, someone who has handled more than one phone and can make comparisons on a whole host of questions.
It's when the fanboys get angry that their baby wasn't reviewed positively that they start screaming bias. As long as reviewers support their opinions in detail and remain respectful (unlike Gizmodo when they **** all over Blackberry for not sending them a review unit or gave their Nokia N8 to a person who could barely type), it's all good. When they act disrespectful and start throwing insults, place double-standards, and have terrible supporting evidence, do you say, now that is TRULLY BIASED BS.
Here are some ****zu-y sites I've come across:
NokiaBlog, WMPowerUser, WPCentral (duh)
AndroidCentral, AndroidCommunity, Android_______ (double duh)
Gizmodo (no allegiance. Just tabloid fare to provoke and garner hits)
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I like watching youtube reviews like MobileTechReview and Pocketnow, although they are bias too it still give enough of a hint about a device. In all honesty, I fear more the elitist group of Android fanboys from the Galaxy Nexus forum section, once they obtain this device and move on to here, I will be making my retreat.

katamari201 said:
The only reason Anandtech is unbiased is because their reviews are more like scientific tests: charts, numbers, quantifiable stuff. Once you start asking them whether you like or dislike the phone, it turns BIASED. I personally don't give two ****zus about numbers and graphs. I want an educated opinion from a geek about whether he likes a phone or not, someone who has handled more than one phone and can make comparisons on a whole host of questions.
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I personally don't give two %#&! about a site that says : "battery life is ok". That doesn't tell me squat.
I would MUCH rather have a scientific study done showing the amount of battery life based on what you were doing the entire time to run it down.
I personally don't give two %#&! about a review site that says: "screen brightness is good". That doesn't do anything for me.
I would MUCH rather have a scientific test done showing the screen brightness in nits so I can compare it against other phones.
I would rather have too much knowledge than not enough and make my own choice based on the knowledge given to me, rather than someone elses opinion who might not have the same preferences I do.
Of course it's helpful to have differing opinions of phones, but most review sites beyond anandtech don't know how to write a real review.

Verge is crap. I sheep infested site. Took it off my favs long time ago and never looked back.

Nice video

Nice sales video and definitely pre-recorded

boodies said:
Verge is crap. I sheep infested site. Took it off my favs long time ago and never looked back.
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iSheep? The website that has been highly critical of Apple and iOS? You must be confused. Their editor in chief uses a Galaxy Nexus.
---------- Post added at 09:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:46 AM ----------
florian3000 said:
Nice sales video and definitely pre-recorded
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To be fair almost all of the Verge's review/investigative type videos look like this. They spend on a lot of money on their video team apparently.

I enjoyed the video from the Verge and the articles were very well written. They perfectly answered my questions about the lack of an LTE Nexus 4; from Google's standpoint, it makes perfect sense. Shame on you Verizon...
That being said BGR is the BEST! I'm SO joking - In all seriousness, I read a lot of those sites, them formulate my own opinion about how said device stacks up. I rarely take the opinion/bias from one site alone.

Everyone on this planet is subjective. There is no such thing as objective, except when looking at a spec sheet.
I subjectively object to the word journalism being used to describe any review site.

eksasol said:
I like watching youtube reviews like MobileTechReview and Pocketnow, although they are bias too it still give enough of a hint about a device. In all honesty, I fear more the elitist group of Android fanboys from the Galaxy Nexus forum section, once they obtain this device and move on to here, I will be making my retreat.
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And who should that be? And why not just blocking them?