Database Develop

New apple Ifoon versus the BA

From what I've seen there is not a lot more that the Ifoon can offer over what the BA has.
I like the look of the ifoon, but other than edge what else does it offer?
A bigger hole in the bank account.

Agreed.
Apple, welcome to 2004.

Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.

no ways yoz
fraser said:
Heh, they've just announced that it won't be able to run third-party apps unless they are certified by Apple.
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haha bros that's an apple patent.. we all know this!! software support always been an apple downfall. Not only that but no physical buttons?!? What happens when the 'super apple' touchscreen goes out? ouch! You got that bar of soap it so much resembles!
I dig my BA, but it's too big and bulky, get a hermes for that price! Apple and Jobs built a POS. They're just jealous that M$ is getting so much recognition with new smartphones. Last year at this time it seemed half the world didn't even know what a smartphone was.. until the release of these smartphones like the Q/blackjack, every lil 16yr old cries to their parents for one. What a crock! My opinion.
Apple needs to stick to software, the Intel macs are tearing up the G5's all around.

I have watched the introduction of the iPhone over the net.
This is the best device of this class!! It is lightning fast, it is operated with fingers only (no stylus!!!!!) it is a unique Softwae/hardware simbiot!!! After all how many IPods have crashed or needed soft reset, hard reset and so on? If Apple release this wonderfull device I'll get myself one for sure!
This is personal opinion!

OrionBG, I'm not convinced. I know at least three iPod users that have had serious problems. Dodgy batteries, music db corruption (complete loss) and other issues with iTunes have left me quite unimpressed. The mere fact that they force you to use iTunes bites the big one. My friend had to reset his whole library after his PC hard drive crashed. Well, he would have if it hadn't been for the "illegal" utilities I helped him use to recover most of it.
Apples "Just Works" thing is largely a marketing myth. Pop over to any unofficial apple forum to see the real issues that their hardware has. You can't discuss these things on their official forums; if you raise a bug that they can't be bothered fixing, they'll just delete the thread everytime you raise it. Check the discussion in that link; they have a long history of this.
They also sue websites and threaten them if they say anything bad about apple. If this forum was larger they would be complaining about my current post. Paul over at Modaco had to remove a Today screen for Windows Mobile that looked a little like the apple one announced. If you announce any Apple "secrets", they will threaten to sue you even though you have never signed a Non-Disclosure Agreement. They have bigger lawyers than you and more money to spend so people rarely fight back.
Apple suck. This is not the right way to run a company IMHO. They are a bad company guilty of anti-competitive practices and this has been consistent over the past five years. Their recent hardware has been very anti-consumer and of poor quality. The only reason they get away with it is because their main competitor has a worse track record in these regards and that they have a fantastic marketing department.

Have u heard about piratebay activity called http://buysealand.com/ they've just decided to buy small "island" - no lawyers problem anymore.
... and one of the greatest tactic is "how something is amazing" post by "ordinary people" together with deleting "the wrong one".

I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while

rambo6 said:
I read jobs' debut of the ifoon. There's some neat ideas there. I like the large screen. This is also the reason I've kept a BA. I also like the idea of the device sensing the orientation of the device and changing the screen orientation. I don't possibly see how the keyboard is going to work, especially if one's fingers are large.
I love the slide out keyboards by HTC. The keys stick out enough to feel.
Concerning the OS, I used to hate MS OSs. Win98was aweful. However I've been using XP Pro on an HP laptop for almost 2 yrs with very little problems.
I also use an HTC Wizard with Gamescans Mr. Clean AKU2.3 is completely stable. It is the most reliable phone/pda I've ever used and I've had a Treo. The Wizard needs a larger processor and UMTS/HDSPA - hence the Hermes.
I haven't bought the hermes yet because I keep hoping to see HTC give us a large screen, processor, and 3G. I'm getting older and like the big screen.
The perfect phone would have the Dash's rubbery non-slip outer surface with a 3.5" hires screen, at least a 400 processor, a slide out keyboard, AM/FM radio, SD card slot and maybe a HD, UMTS/HDSPA, quad band, headset jack, BT 2.0, add GPS and WiFi. The device has to go at least a day with heavy UMTS surfing.
I may settle for a Hermes (TyTN or xv6800) if AKU3.** is available. I want to tether my phone & Laptop at 3G once in a while
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Nobody will build a perfect phone : )

!! M$ !!
Sure everyone hates M$ but what are the most widely used OS variants in the world.. Without a doubt...Windows products! Eat that Apple/Linux/whatever users
Plus like I stated, the need for physical buttons are a must, no? That must be one super touchscreen on the apple it will be the one way to navigate? Not even a scroll wheel like relatively cheap smartphones? OUCH! hope you have absolutely clean fingers no matter what that screen will be soo smudged up with nastiness!
Apple jealous of M$ tearing up the mobile market, can't stand it! hahaha I love it!! They're hardware is behind, only thing they've got going for them is the camera.
Apple ish*t specs
Technical Specifications
Screen size 3.5 inches
Screen resolution 320 by 480 at 160 ppi
Input method Multi-touch
Operating system OS X
Storage 4GB or 8GB
GSM Quad-band (MHz: 850, 900, 1800, 1900)
Wireless data Wi-Fi (802.11b/g) + EDGE + Bluetooth 2.0
Camera 2.0 megapixels
Battery Up to 5 hours Talk / Video / Browsing
Up to 16 hours Audio playback
Dimensions 4.5 x 2.4 x 0.46 inches / 115 x 61 x 11.6mm
Weight 4.8 ounces / 135 grams

I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
It's easier to shrug off the iPhone, especially if you don't have the money to buy it
cutting through the grituitous bashing, as well as the hype, I have seen good and bad things.
GOOD:
No doubt it has a hardware platform powerful enough to perform at least as good as our BAs, and probably better. Yeah, it could have 3G, but it would add too much to the cost of the machine.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability. Otherwise just pick up your Nokia 1110 with its black-and-white matrix and shut up.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate. And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
THE MIXED:
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
It will probably be bad for the hobbyst crowd, which would like to code for fun for their devices, and probably won't be allowed to. Unless Apple releases some open IDE a la Carbide, but since they are already closing up the door on software availability, this possibility is remote.
I think it's more bad than good, but at least we can hope this will be a death sentence for software developemnt for this platform, and that this will actually result in more security. Not that we have many actual threats out there, but smartphones have the potential to be hacked into, become zombies for spam botnets etc. etc. When the spammers/crackers start to tap on this, we might start to see Windows Mobile get into a nightmare...
THE BAD:
It lacks 3G, it does not have direct iTunes access (you have to cradle it to sync and add stuff);
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind? OK, I don't usually swap batteries around, but I tend to buy extended batteries (my BA has one). I only this machine has GOOD battery life, this might not bite as much.
It would be good to have a GPS throwed in too... hey, let me dream!
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time. I believe there have been t-mobile onlys before, after some time they will allow everyone to buy it. Remember, it's all about PROFIT. Apple will not close their market that much. If they can sell more, they will. They are probably working first with the operator which was easier to work with, they gave more of how apple wanted to control the device and the network. And they will probably use this to scrub on other operator and say 'Ok, if you don't do it the way I like it, I won't do you the favor of selling my devices to you' (Yeah, Apple is a bit like a diva). They will try to use the Cingular-only argument to try to drive the operator into submission. It's a reversal of roles, where usually the operators dictate what they want and don't want on their devices. And maybe they can pull it off.
IT's EXPENSIVE. Apple/Cingular is really 'stretching the thong' on this one. Either Cingular is not subsidizing AT ALL (have you thought of this possibility?), or the machine is really expensive.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag. The screen is the same size of a LifeDrive, which is not anywhere near the cost of this machine. 4-8 GB flash? look at the iPod nano's price tags. ARM CPU + radios, there are plenty out there. motion/orientation sensor? Hmm, look at the Wii controls, I think I have read something about them, those things are not expensive nowadays. The only exotic stuff is the multi-touch sensor, and those things exist for quite some time, they are just not popular. and lacking stuff like 3G radio, SD slot and... a removable battery cover (sigh) helps driving down the cost.
The profit margin is fat here! yeah, there is all this 'pay for R&D blah blah', but they are going to make a few good bucks.
BOTTOM LINE:
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.

pda...of course
in primis...here in hungary every apple stuff is sold for a double or triple price as in the US, this means, that the ifoon would cost minimum 1000-1200$...that is not affordable...or, of course, it is, but the ifoon doesn't worth that much...
pro secundo...the operator lock...well...it's discussed on many forums, that it wont be easy to crack it, so if it ever would be sold here, you couldn't change operator easily, and if not at all, it sucks...
pro tertia...the multitouch...say anything, that it's better than a single stylus...but i can't imagine, that i'll use my thumbs to scroll an ebook, or play minesweeper ;]...but anyway, if the software range is limited, than it matters no...sending an sms could be easyer, maybe, because, you could type...but you should use full screen keyboard...which is annoying, and anyhow, you could take it in your hand like a psp, so you could use only thumbs, that are big...and as mentioned...you will mess the whole screen with fingerprints all the time...that suck again
the thingy has no IRDA, this way you cannot use it as a remote control for tv, or what...
and, and as mentioned above...no gps, no sd, no changeable battery...anyhow 3G is said to be installed in it, till it will be merchandised...

Brazilian Joe said:
I have never had apple stuff, but I watch apple closely. And I must admit, they build good stuff.
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I disagree. Sure, their PCs will get you on the net but as soon as you try to do something more complex they fall down. Their support is rubbish and they regularly delete bugs and forum posts about issues they can't be bothered fixing. Their computer hardware and QC have been slated regularly. About the best thing they have going for them is their legion of fanboi's (and astroturfers) convincing people that their computers "just work" when it's not the case.
They also threaten sites like xda-developers as a general rule. They probably have more lawyers than developers, basically a small Microsoft during it's evil phase.
About the only thing they've done right lately is the iPod, and even it has all the "all apple, all the time" idea where you can only buy music from iTunes and get it on to the device. If you try to write software so that people are free to use something else other than iTunes, they'll sue you for that.
Oh, and now they are charging you for patches and feature updates and calling it "an accounting quirk".
Apple suck, most people are just too blinkered by their dislike for Microsoft to see it.
INTERFACE. Don't spit this 'I can do the same with 15 taps on my screen' style of crap. The machine has MULTITOUCH. That opens a whole window of possibilities for interactivity. like the demoed zoom, where you hold two fingers together and slide them apart on the screen to zoom in a map.
It's not like our touchscreens which can only detect a single coordinate on screen.
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It's nice, but I'm not all that impressed. Sure, most of us will have seen the multitouch proof-of-concept videos last year on a full PC, but this is on a phone. There isn't all that much room for more than one active finger. And what about one-handed operation? You'd need to have it on a table for multi-touch. And what, on a mobile, can it actually be used for that's superior to any other UI component?
Not to mention all that eye-candy OS X is famous for. OK, you may scoff on eye candy, but used wisely (and apple knows how to do it), you can have visual clues of what's happening and this actually improves usability.
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It's most redeeming feature IMHO.
They have no legacy to keep compatible, so they can really innovate.
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Nope, built of OSX and it uses iTunes. That's quite a legacy there alone.
And I believe they are really innovating on this area.
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I could not disagree more. All they've done is take a standard device and slap a pretty UI on it. We could get that via a software update on old hardware right now. In fact, we had it and they forced hanmin to remove his post via bogus legal threats. One good thing about all of this is that MS will have to rethink their UI and play catchup a little.
Another nice touch is the orientation sensor which automatically changes from portrait to landscape when you rotate the machine. no buttons.
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My digital camera has that, it's very useful and intuative. You see it happen once and from then on it's instinctive just to rotate it. However, on a phone when it has to send redraw events to the running applications and deal with resolution changes, I'm not convinced this is something you want switching everything you move your arm.
Apple's choice of software model. It will have a final say on what's available for the machine and what's not. I bet the apps will be available only through iTunes. It's good in the sense that they can ensure that software complies to a certain standard, which means good quality.
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That's fine, but IMHO if you visit the xda-developers website often, this is not the phone for you. If you visit "hello" magazine and read about Paris Hilton, maybe that's the software delivery model designed just for you.
It's also probably a bane for the warez crowd, because pirating software will be much more difficult, if not impossible.
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Not sure, signing doesn't prevent piracy, it just prevents tampering and provides a trust mechanism. Unless they generate you an unique key-pair for every purchase which I seriously doubt.
It has no SD card slot. Now THAT's a ****up, it has a screen big enough to play videos, but not enough space to carry them.
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Stream via WiFi, via iTunes and your credit-card? Standard Apple practice, charge 'em where possible.
No removable battery? WHAT did they have in mind?
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Making money. Officially when your iPod battery dies (often 1 year old), you have to buy a new iPod.
Cingular only... Hmm, I believe this won't last long. Other companies have launched branded products, but eventually they open up for the market after some time.
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Don't hold your breath, it's a two-year (!!) contract.
I don't think the BOM justifies anywhere close to this price tag.
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No, but the Apple logo does apparently. All of their stuff is at least 30% over market value.
It's the first generation. I will wait and see. 1 year from now the price tag will be sane, I will probably be able to buy an unlocked one, and even better if I can find a 2nd generation device which has GPS and a SD card slot.
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Agreed. Might even get one myself, but I reckon that it'll give the other mobile platforms a kick up the butt and they'll be well ahead by then.

The subject is iphone versus BA
Nobody actually talk about BA at this thread.
Obviously, iphone wins.
Apple's real advance is draw all ppl's attention, media focus, even they build a ****.
Jobs yells, Look at our new ****!!

yoz my last post as a BA user
Heck I have cingular and i'd take a $200 BA over an $499 iphone anyday!! My last post as a BA user, I loved it, great, fast, versitile device. 3.5" display can't beat that.. widescreen at 240x320.. amazing hardware when it released. Lets seea crossbow leap to the BA.
! Long live HTC !

A friend of mine is very Iphone-minded; so from the moment he get's it, I'll have a look at this "device".
I can tell you this much: you will only be able to do with it what apple wants you to do with it - modifying, installing apps? forget it!
I can't imagine a iphone-developers.com

Hmm, there is an iSupply review estimating the BOM (hardware cost alone) to be around 250/280 for the 4/8 GB iPhones.
Even if I lived in the US, I wouldn't rush into the iPhone. i'd wait and see.
I like to see all technological advancements, and I am not a fanboy of ANY brand.
For example, while I have always preached AMD over intel since the K6, now I am recommending Core 2 Duo to anyone who asks. The performance speaks for itself. Since I acknowledged what the Centrino was doing, I kept a close eye on the Intel developments... When They announced that the Core 2 Duo would have an average 20% better performance over the Core Duo, I seriously doubted about it. I have read the technical articles, but I still was skeptic, believeing that they were trumpeting a 'best case' as if it were THE performance. But I was wrong. Core 2 Duio is really all that, and it will be interesting to see AMD catching up.
personally, I actully think AMD will pull it off, with the 'specialized cores' approach. They will embed a GPU (I believe it will be generalized and simply called a 'stream processor') in a multi-core package this year, and soon I believe we will see a Crypto core, and who knows what else. maybe AMD even ecides it's a good idea to have a FPGA as an extra core, and that would open an incredible number of possibilities.
Back to the iPhone subject:
I see the iPhone design as the antithesis of Nokia, nothing is more antagonic to the 'buttons only' approach of S60 than a touchscreen-only.
UIQ and Windows Mobile stay in-between, playing both games, but apparently losing on both. I would like to have a hands-on test drive on the iPhone, but I believe they got it right on the interface.
I really believe the software model they are trying to impose is on of iPhone's greatest risks, the other one is being locked on Cingular for too long, and those could cause its demise.
I really hope it suceeds though, because there is at least one thing it brought to the market, and I really, really hope Microsoft adds it to Photon (WM7): MultitouchScreen.
Competition is good.

well. I have read a great deal on the new i phone. My own opinion is simply that they will NOT corner any part of the mobile phone market let alone come anywhere close to the BA or HTC models of any description.
Apple are already running into stupid problems already if the BBC news here in UK is correct. Apparently the "i phone" name is already a no go thanks to a previous copyright name came from a different company. And as far as being original and up2date....apple are always very close to the mark when it comes to this. Remember last year towards Nov Dec time when LG showed up with their version of what they say as the interactive mobile phone. And how close
the apple phone is in comparison to the LG. I say no more.
OS X maybe pretty to look at, but I much prefer the adaptability and personalizing of the modern Windows Phone edition etc. Have what you want, when you want, HOW you want. AND then....carry ALL your media content including movies mtv clips cartoon....oh yes...AND music (mp3 ogg files etc)it all about (if you prefer) on you OWN memory card.
I digress...

Well, Apple is not that much of a stupid company.
They negotiated and researched before trumpeting the iPhone name.
More recently, after the 'what did they had in mind' reaction, it came up that complaints were filed both in the US and in the EU, in attempt to revoke Cisco's copyright over the iPhone brand for lack of use.
Seems they picked one of their existing products and just badged it as an iPhone, to try to keep hold of the name at the expiry date.
the productitself was released much later and is not what they showed previously, so Apple is trying to free up the name.
Well, it's a gamble, but they would't even try if there was no chance to win on trial.
It will depend on convincing the judge that Cisco was sitting on the name and not using it for too long, so long that they lost their rights over it.
It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

Kaizer or Apple Iphone?

I know, Kaizer packs more in, but i hate 3G due to battery drainage and am happy with Edge. The Apple is way cooler no doubt, but no gps and the keyboard sucks?
tough call...

Your poll is gonna be a bit biased hah
Iphone lacks 3rd party support
can't swap battery
no keyboard
not subsidised
premier discounts voided
just a few reasons I can think of at the moment.
Also many ppl who *would* have an 4/8 gig Iphone have a 20-80gig Ipod already, so theres little advantage to getting it other than its kinda cool.

Don't know what you think your poll is going to show other than Teens will vote for ipone and Business folk will go for the Kaiser....
d

I vote for iphone.
HAHAHAHAHA!

Definitely Kaiser! Can't wait for it to hit the shelves!

Well considering the only thing you say you don't like about the Kaiser is the 3G then i'd suggest you run with the Kaiser as you can choose which network to be connected to on-the-fly.
iPhone really is the most overhyped phone to ever be released.

i'd go for the kaiser out of the two because i like the keyboard, and i'm not really a fan of apple products - and i think having a phone with a non user replaceable battery is lunacy!
what about the new se p1i? i used to really like sony's but went for the tytn as i couldn't be arsed to wait any longer for the p990...

dwella said:
Don't know what you think your poll is going to show other than Teens will vote for ipone and Business folk will go for the Kaiser....
d
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hahaha im a teen but even i know the kaiser is better. im not gonna be tricked by apple. ppcs are way better.
so far only 3 votes on the iphone lol

http://www.mobile-review.com/articles/2007/iphone-name-en.shtml
after reading that, i think you will have only 1 choice... i was really shocked of course i had my bias, but i didnt know it was that bad and that limited

EDGE???
Show me the place in UK where it works???
AFAIK there's no EDGE on nay of UK networks...

Im pretty sure Orange supports EDGE.

It all depends on what you are doing.
I have used the iPhone (my brother's) and I must say that is is pretty slick and rock-solid in terms of connectivity - albeit slow connectivity relative to 3G.
IMHO - if you need something that is half-baked iPod, half-baked iPhoto plus a phone with pretty bad audio, but WAY COOL looking - you get an iPhone. Of course, you cannot mind being tethered to the mother ship.
Now, if you are mobile, need email, want to download RSS feeds, video and audio podcasts and need all of the connectivity options to handle scenarios ranging from client office wireless networks to airports to taxicabs and your own office Plus you want some music and photos of your kids (or car or babe), you get a Kaiser.
Now if either of them had that 1.2 million color screen of the N95 we would be talking some serious beauty!
Personally, I will be camping - pre-iPhone style in front of my ATT store on September 3 for a Kaiser!

Umm, no offense to anyone but it seems to me that when one considers phone purchase of this kind, the iCrap and the Kaiser cannot be in the same category.

Its not a tough call... the Iphone is a piece of **** for people that don't have a hard demand on their phone. If you are a power user get a Kaiser.

if you want features besides an mp3 player and a picture viewer like every phone out there has, get the kaiser.

It is as comparing Apples with Pears (Tytn II) ;o))

Blasphemer
If you were true to htc and windows mobile you would stick with the kaiser, iphone even thou its got its nufty features like that zoomng in and the keyboard (which on our windows mobile you can now simulate) its still buggy even after the updates at least with kaiser you know its got windows mobile 6 plus u get full keyboard and the tilt and brilliant for the gps even thou the battery would drain faster who cares go on ebay get a higher capacity battery and in car charger then get a extra battery while your there and a exturnal battery charger thats what i did for the Htc Universal (which sadly broke grr that usb port breaking and then gettting stuck in bootloader mode)

Fleetphoenix said:
If you were true to htc
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Oh dear. No-one should stick to a product just because of the company that makes it.
The iPhone is a good bit of kit. Sure, it's got its flaws (no 3G, no custom ringtones) but for the average person that wants to trade in their iPod and Nokia for a single device, it'll do the job.
Most people are here because they use Pocket PC phones. The iPhone can't compete with them (however much it pretends it can). It's locked down, it's got limited email options and frankly, we're used to being able to customise our devices up the wazoo.
If Apple made a decent phone and HTC came out with a turkey, staying with them through loyalty would be foolish to the extreme.
You may show loyalty to a company, but at the end of the day, they're only interested in profits, and they will not reciprocate.

This poll is bound to be biased...
I mean, this is a WM developers forum. After the amount of work we put into the PPCs, most other phones(including the iPhone) look slightly,er, stupid?
On the other hand, I do wish HTC gave us 3in VGA screens. Come on HTC!, Arima does it.

Kaiser all the way.
What can the Iphone do that a Kaiser wont be able to do once the geniuses here at XDA-developers have a a tweak with the ROM. Isn't it only a matter of time before someone comes out with an implementation of the pinch/squeeze-zoom for photos afaik this is the only feature WM devices can't currently match.

Kaiser vrs iPhone

So, if the iphone had microsoft exchange sync and wasn't tied exclusively to one carrier, would you choose it over the Kaiser?

no period no

Its not tied to one carrier anymore when you unlock it. I use both, and it depends on what I'm doing to decide when I switch my SIM from one to another. There are things the Tilt can't touch on the iPhone, and vice versa.

nope, too many other reasons why. instead of saying "if the iphone had this and that" why not just say "if the kaiser had multitouch and sensors"? i mean those are the only features it doesnt have, not worth trying to add more features too the iphone.

Oh hell no.
The iphone is garbage. It can't send/ receive mms messages (without using a 3rd party email account and forwarding)... and it does not have 3g capabilities.

lets not forget that you cant get to the battery with out voiding the waranty if nothing else we have definitly got them there

I love my tilt
I'm think of getting an iphone to mess around with it. I current on Att with data connect plan for data. Do i have to upgrade the data to some kind of special plans for iphone?

i have a tilt and i love it, the only thing that i would say that i like about the iphone is the touch capabilities... thats about it.

you know, besides the video part, the screen res. and the multi-touch screen, Everything else on the Kaiser beats the iPhone.

i stand correct:
if i want a phone for looks and to wow people cuz i have an iphone...yes i would get it...
but if i want a phone for its functionality...no...never will i get the iphone...
in reality...i would probably never get the iphone...especially since i already got my tytn II

Hokay, to (hopefully) end this endless iPhone VS Kaiser debate, let me post this (warning, lots of letters):
1. EDGE-only, and limited Wi-Fi: Cingular's rapidly rolling out HSDPA across the country, with other carriers (T-Mobile with UMTS, Sprint and Verizon with EV-DO Revision A, and Sprint with WiMAX, for example) making similar high-speed data services infrastructure investments. Yet the Apple iPhone only handles comparatively archaic and slow EDGE, which will hobble Apple's hype of it as a 'breakthrough Internet communications device'. Hold this particular thought until you read my later comments on the product's profit margin, keeping in mind estimates that bumping the iPhone from EDGE to HSDPA would have only cost Apple around $20 more. Yes, the unit also offers Wi-Fi (b/g), but you won't be able to access it via your Cingular plan; get ready to also pay Boingo or another provider if you want a pervasive 802.11 experience. And as much as Zune got clobbered for its incomplete to-date Wi-Fi implementation, the Apple iPhone's no better. No wireless iTunes sync with a computer? No direct downloads from the iTunes Store? C'mon
2. No removeable battery: Long-time readers know this is a frequent sore point of mine. Manufacturers claim that by going with a completely enclosed battery they can make their systems thinner, smaller, lighter and otherwise more aesthetically pleasing than they'd otherwise be. To date, this has pretty much been BS; at end-of-day, economy-of-scale factors still motivate companies to go with off-the-shelf batteries instead of custom units. And by burying a limited-life battery within its widget, Apple's built in a guaranteed replacement requirement....one that under normal usage will conveniently occur prior to the end of the required two-year service contract with Cingular.
3. High price, and high profit margin: $500-600 for the phone. Plus a roughly $100-month voice-plus-data service plan, with two-year minimum duration. 'Nuff said on price. Regarding margin, it's interesting to see Apple engaging in Microsoft-like pre-announcement hype of late. Last summer, the company unveiled the iTV, an under-development product re-unveiled two weeks ago as Apple TV and still not shipping for another month-plus. And the Apple iPhone won't be shipping until at least the end of June....plenty of time for dissenting voices such as mine to creep into the public consciousness, along with iSuppli's recent analysis that the Apple iPhone will cultivate a roughly 50% bill-of-materials profit margin for the company. Yes, other expenses (marketing, manufacturing, sales, etc) aren't included in the analysis, but they're insignificant when amortized over the number of iPhones that Apple aspires to sell. And most consumers won't comprehend that these other costs are not included; they'll just see 50% margin and think greed.
4. Carrier- and application-lock: Apple and Cingular must have missed the late November 2006 memo wherein the Library of Congress approved a copyright exemption (more from Ars Technica and MAKE) that allows DMCA circumvention for "cell phone firmware that ties a phone to a specific wireless network". I have mobile service through T-Mobile, so I'm not an iPhone candidate unless I'm a "bad guy" (in Cingular terminology) who figures out how to unlock the device by myself. And Jobs' explanation for the Apple-gated (thereby potentially excluding Office file viewers, for example, and VoIP) iPhone application allowance, that "Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up," is equally laughable, not to mention technically indefensible. In reality, it's nothing more than an unfriendly-to-consumer but lucrative-to-company extension of the FairPlay DRM lock-to-Apple strategy.
5. Large size: I think Pocket PC Phones are too bulky, both to stow in my pocket and to hold up to my face. I'm also not a fan of wired or wireless headsets, and I therefore prefer the Smartphone approach. But Maury, and plenty of other folks, find the larger iPhone-like form factor and headset approach palatable. So this is admittedly a personal-taste nit.
6. No tactile keypad: Time and time again, touchscreen-only user interfaces with 'floating keypads' have been panned by potential customers and have therefore been unsuccessful in the market aside from in narrow market niches. Will this time be different? I'm skeptical.
7. Low-res camera: An only-2 Mpixel camera? On a $500-$600 phone? C'mon
8.No expansion slot: The operating system (which may or may not be OS X as Jobs touted during his 'reality distortion field' keynote), gobbles up 500 MBytes' worth of the 4 or 8 GBytes of flash memory built into the phone. Installed applications consume even more, and let's not forget those all-important music tracks and video clips. Run out of memory? Too bad, buy a bigger-capacity phone. There's no memory card expansion capability for you.
9. Insufficient between-charge operating time: Apple's documentation claims up to 5 hours when talking on the phone, playing back videos or browsing the Internet. I believe 5 hours of talk time, which is in and of itself low compared to competitors products. And I 'may' believe 5 hours of video playback time, given that the unit is flash memory-based and given the track record of the company's firmware upgrade-based improvements here on the first- and second-generation video-capable iPods. But I don't buy it for a second with Internet-based functions, EDGE- and particularly Wi-Fi-based. Anyone else who regularly manages email, fires up a web browser, or does another Net-centric function on a device with a small battery will, I think, agree with my stance here. And, revisiting my earlier embedded-battery point, realize that Apple's operating life prognostications assume a brand new battery.
10. Unoriginality: Admittedly, this may be my most controversial argument. Go back and look at any of my past Pocket PC and Smartphone writeups. Look at any of the devices now available from carriers. Now realize that many of them are now selling for free-to-sub-$100, subsidized under the exact same contract terms as Apple's $500-600 iPhone. Windows Mobile-based devices, as well as products based on Palm, Symbian and alternative operating systems, have for years been doing what Apple's promising its iPhone will do in....around six months from now. Phone? Check. Audio playback? Check. Video playback? Check. Internet access? Check. Wi-Fi? Check. 3G data? Check-plus. Bluetooth? Check. Camera? Check. GPS? Check-plus. I could go on (but I won't). Some folks are even claiming that Apple blatantly stole from an LG phone design. Granted, Apple may have advanced the state of the art to some degree, in some areas, in an evolutionary manner, by virtue of its large touchscreen and other factors. But is the Apple iPhone revolutionary? That's quite a stretch.
Taken from http://www.edn.com/blog/400000040/post/1100006510.html
Take it or leave it, I did not write it, nor do I agree with everything there. It's just a good write-up that deserves to be read be people who choose between the two.
There's been LOTS of bashing Kaiser... and way too much iPhone lovin' - but that's just my observation.

guys, when the sdk iphone 16gb comes out(and it is coming out within the next 2 months), its going to DESTROY the kaiser tytn 2 and all other HTC products currently offered. seriously think about it now.....

well i could personally careless about the new iphone...i text quite a bit and i've previously owned phones with no keyboard...and its a pain in the bottom to me at least...and the tytnII suites my needs...whether it should perform better..lets not go there here as we've already said many times in other threads...whether i will get the iphone or not? probably not...it looks good and all the interface..but doesnt suit my needs...but am i 100% satisifed with the tytnII...no...but who here can say they have been 100% satisfied with there phone and thinks its the number one and nothing else can compare? theres gonna be pros and cons to everyphone...its just picking the phone that has the most pros to each user...but i will look into the new SE xperia when more info is available

The Iphone is too apple-specific for my tastes. I like having the option of using cooked ROMs, napster for music, and loads of third-party applications on my tilt. Extended life batteries and a QWERTY keyboard are great. I also like the fact that I have pretty much unlimited storage, since I can switch out as many microSD cards as I want. I work with a guy that has an Iphone, and with the exception of watching videos, my tilt kicks his Iphone's butt.
Both phones have their strong points, but the Kaiser has a lot more of them than the Iphone does.

DarkDvr said:
Hokay, to (hopefully) end this endless iPhone VS Kaiser debate, let me post this (warning, lots of letters):
1. EDGE-only, and limited Wi-Fi: Cingular's rapidly rolling out HSDPA across the country, with other carriers (T-Mobile with UMTS, Sprint and Verizon with EV-DO Revision A, and Sprint with WiMAX, for example) making similar high-speed data services infrastructure investments. Yet the Apple iPhone only handles comparatively archaic and slow EDGE, which will hobble Apple's hype of it as a 'breakthrough Internet communications device'. Hold this particular thought until you read my later comments on the product's profit margin, keeping in mind estimates that bumping the iPhone from EDGE to HSDPA would have only cost Apple around $20 more. Yes, the unit also offers Wi-Fi (b/g), but you won't be able to access it via your Cingular plan; get ready to also pay Boingo or another provider if you want a pervasive 802.11 experience. And as much as Zune got clobbered for its incomplete to-date Wi-Fi implementation, the Apple iPhone's no better. No wireless iTunes sync with a computer? No direct downloads from the iTunes Store? C'mon
You can have direct downloads from the iTunes store
8.No expansion slot: The operating system (which may or may not be OS X as Jobs touted during his 'reality distortion field' keynote), gobbles up 500 MBytes' worth of the 4 or 8 GBytes of flash memory built into the phone. Installed applications consume even more, and let's not forget those all-important music tracks and video clips. Run out of memory? Too bad, buy a bigger-capacity phone. There's no memory card expansion capability for you.
There is a 16GB version out now. Still 15.5gb free.
Oh - and in the UK on o2, we get unlimited free access to The Cloud's Hotspots, which seem to be pretty widespread. IE in McDonalds and so forth.
Taken from http://www.edn.com/blog/400000040/post/1100006510.html
Take it or leave it, I did not write it, nor do I agree with everything there. It's just a good write-up that deserves to be read be people who choose between the two.
There's been LOTS of bashing Kaiser... and way too much iPhone lovin' - but that's just my observation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have one and those are the only two points I wanted to contend, but I can quite plainly see the downfalls of the iPhone and I love mine anyway. My comments in bold
I'm sure I would love the Kaiser if I had one too.

wsmith79 said:
guys, when the sdk iphone 16gb comes out(and it is coming out within the next 2 months), its going to DESTROY the kaiser tytn 2 and all other HTC products currently offered. seriously think about it now.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once the iPhone gets 3G, GPS, and maybe a better keyboard, what reason is there to use an HTC or other smartphones besides lower price?
OSX mobile is only going to get better; it has solid, mature foundations - unlike Linux or PalmOS; and hopefully it opens itself to 3rd party apps properly. Who doesn't want a device that's a company's near #1 priority?

there are only 2 things holding me back from actually getting the iPhone....
1.GPS - iPhone needs needs NEEDS GPS...with the processing power it has, it can support a kick ass GPS software.
2. Copy/Paste - yes, it bugs the **** out of me. I copy paste numbers to SMS on my Kaiser all the time...how can a $600 phone not have Copy/Paste, its so ****ing crazy...i can go on and on about this...

I would have one tomorrow if they included the following features:
1. GPS - fully functional, not some data intensive half-ass'd attempt.
2. 3G/HSDPA - Edge is just not fast enough!
3. MS Exchange server functionality
4. Media Messaging
5. A properly functioning touch screen keyboard

When the iPhone rumors were abounding, I would have definitely taken it over any other phone. When the reality hit, I wasn't all that excited anymore.
The fact is that the iPhone is the future of phones. EVERYONE is playing catch up trying to match its slick interface. Can Windows Mobile even hold a candle to the iPhone when it comes to usability? Hell no. WM is slow, often annoying, doesn't even allow you to close things, and has a lot more problems on the usability side (not to say it sucks, it just had problems - ya know?)
Things are looking better and better every day. Application development seems to have taken off and the iPhone looks more and more attractive all the time. But you have to realize it is in its infancy. Windows Mobile took a little while to get going - people didn't have the choice of 10,000 apps, cooked ROMS, etc. all on day one. So it is with the iPhone.
In my mind, the iPhone is like a baby superhero and Windows Mobile is like the adult average guy. Like, it's obvious who is going to win in the end. Microsoft will need to make some major changes to Windows Mobile if they want to compete in the future marketplace. Otherwise people will start taking them about as seriously as Palm OS.
So - to answer the question: Would i choose an iPhone today? No.
Would I buy an iPhone in six month (or when it has xyz features?): Probably, but we'll have to see what else (Windows Mobile, Android, etc.) has come along by then.
I won't go on record like others in this thread and say "never" because ... well, that's really stupid.
"Why, I'll never buy anything other than a Ma' Bell rotary telephone!"

I will buy iPhone for sure .... only if it runs Windows Mobile
But .... When?

Tilt vs Iphone - which is better ?

i dont know if this is the right place to post because you guys will obviously be biased towards the tilt..
what do u think , should i buy a Tilt or the current Iphone ?
i like to browse the net thru wifi quite a bit, check emails. also while talking voice quality is important, signal strenth is important too.
any suggestions is appreciated specially if someone has owned both of these 2. thx

btw i have read other threads and googled other comparisions but there werent too much opinions on this topic.
the few i saw said they liked Tilt better.

okay i dont own a tilt, so thought id post.
i prefer the tilt,
in my opinion it looks nicer, is easier to text (with the keyboard), the hackability is excellent (ROMS) and applications are plentiful.

tseten said:
btw i have read other threads and googled other comparisions but there werent too much opinions on this topic.
the few i saw said they liked Tilt better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure what you mean about "weren't too much opinions" but this forum is full of opinions about the iPhone and Tilt and you will find some very heated opinions to boot.
On I side note: I have the Tilt, my wife has the 8525, and my Brother in-law has the iPhone. Each His (Or Her) own....
IMO ~ You may have just reopened a big can off &%#* as this forum is not a iPhone forum and iPhone or related threads generally get bashed on. Start a Poll!!!!

i have heard the Tilt is fat and bulky compared to the sleek Iphone....
and the Tilts touch screen scratches easily and have to use stylus... whereas iphone screen is scratch resistant... i think.
but ofcourse I like HTC, and i like Windows Mobile6 ...i currently own a different HTC phone with wm6 custom rom. so before yall think abt bashing me, im a custom WM6 Rom fanboy...
kingsizeriz said:
okay i dont own a tilt, so thought id post.
i prefer the tilt,
in my opinion it looks nicer, is easier to text (with the keyboard), the hackability is excellent (ROMS) and applications are plentiful.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

i have both and i love the tilt better
iphone after a while gets repetitive and boring
tilt theres more to discover by the day

Well, if the iPhone ran Windows Mobile it would be a close call, even with all the WM "limitations", it is still far greater and customizable then the iPhone interface, in which basically... you can swap icons.
Plus Gps, 3G and whatever else the iPhone misses.
iPhone has a bigger and more resistant screen and that's pretty much all I can see about iPhone having better.

I think comparing this version of the iphone and tilt isnt close without 3g and gps. But if you don't use those who knows. The iphone is defintely thinner and sleeker. But the wm phone is much more functiona.
Skyfire browses the web just as well as the iphones and handles all flash content, can't beat that.

well i would get tilt myself but i got piles of 3th party progs which is wm
and want something better then edge and want flash support
but i do think iphone looks better but then i never were a big fan of the looks of kaiser

get both and then decide which one u want and then sell the other one.

I have both, here's my opinion
Tilt
Pro's:
3G
GPS
WMWifiRouter & tethering
Youtube
MicroSD Slot
Easy to sawp sim card
Exchange/Direct Push
Quake I & II
Microsoft Mobile Office
Con's:
Battery life
size (lets face it, compared to the iphone the tilt is a brick)
video issues
slow at times
can't get NES roms to work properly (thats for me atleast)
WM is designed to be used with a stylus, I know, touchflow TRIES tomake up for it, but falls short imo
OEM headset sucks
iPhone:
Pro:
easy to use
video playback is great
surfing the internet is quick and fun (despite the 2.5 modem)
Installer app is really nice (if u hack/unlock ur iphone)
the ipod functions are nice
great ebook reader imo
Accelerometers
screen size & quality
multi touch
threaded sms out the box
solid feel to it
size
comes with a cradle and nice headset
Con:
2.5G modem
No tehtering
no gps
no video recorder (but can be downloaded via installer)
no exchange
calander sucks
keyboard sucks
iPhone plans suck (with AT&T)
App icons on homescreen are static, meaning it wont update the weather on the front screen, u have to open the app to see the weather
screen does not recognize a stylus
easy to scratch
I had my tilt first, and I loved it, and thought it was the best phone ever... I just got my iphone roughly a month ago, and I fell in love all over again. Dont get me wrong though, I wouldnt say anyone of the phones is superior to the other... They are 2 different styles of phones, one is a buisness type personal manager, and the other is a entertainment device. I love the tilts connectivity, I travel a lot for work, and I got to school at night. Its nice to be able to whip out the tilt, connect to the internet and share the connection with my laptop. Also during my travels, if i get lost, TomTom will always direct me to my destination. The iphone is great when going out a night, its slim shape allows me to have in my pocket, for my tilt i have to use a belt clip/pouch.
So there ya go... You just need to make sure the phone your getting suits your needs... the tilt suits my business life, the iphone my personal life... I wish there was a device that did both in 1.. maybe the next HTC device or the 3G iphone will cover all bases... we'll see

tseten said:
...whereas iphone screen is scratch resistant...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope I can confirm it does scratch.. I have a fat scratch middle of my screen

I'm a new user here which means my opinion doesn't count as much, ;-), but I'll throw my 2 cents in anyways. I'm looking for a "one device to rule them all" type thing. The Kaiser and the iPhone 1.0 are close. However, I think the phones that'll make me happy are either the TyN IV or the iPhone 3.0. The above poster is right that the WM6 isn't great at entertainment/personal apps and the iPhone isn't great at business apps. In the race of the Tyn IV and the iPhone 3.0, I think that Apple will win because their interface is so much more polished, integrated, and smooth.
Oh, I just got a Kaiser on Friday, I've been using an iPod for years, but don't have an iPhone.

A Man's Phone
I have a tilt and my wife has an iphone. So that is easy , the Tilt is a man"s phone and the iphone is a girl's phone. Just Kidding (kinda) Higherbeing had all the technicals right. I run a business totally (mostly) on my tilt. From editing documents on the go, to planning my day, to finding my way to jobsites(GPS)to organizing contact and the constant flow of emails and I do it all at 3G speed , I could not see me with an iphone.My wife texts her friends, listens to music at the gym, gets a email or two from work, shows everyone pictures of the family, watches a youtube video or two checks the weather occasionally and laughs at my stylus. Like they say, to each his/her own.

oh yea forgot mobile office as one of the pro's on the tilt...
heh denco sounds like we have simular life styles

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaZIs4oN4yA
http://www.chinabestmobile.com/listE.asp?ProdId=0097

tseten said:
i dont know if this is the right place to post because you guys will obviously be biased towards the tilt..
what do u think , should i buy a Tilt or the current Iphone ?
i like to browse the net thru wifi quite a bit, check emails. also while talking voice quality is important, signal strenth is important too.
any suggestions is appreciated specially if someone has owned both of these 2. thx
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought an iPhone for my wife and a Tilt for myself a few weeks later. At times I've regretted not getting the iPhone in part because:
It has a slightly larger screen
It has a slimmed down version of iTunes.
The touch screen gestures are very intuitive and work out of the box.
There's a steeper learning curve for the Tilt. However, once you get a handle on the basics (thanks xda!!) it can be a more powerful device for a few reasons:
3G is a lot better than Edge.
Built in GPS is awesome.
Works with a lot more bluetooth devices.
There's a lot more software out there for Windows Mobile than for the iPhone.
The slide out keyboard can really come in handy for those longer emails.
Office mobile and built-in full featured exchange sync
Some of these advantages can be had if you unlock the iphone and use FreeBSD/MacOS X software directly.
If you're like me and you're mainly interested in having the benefits of a computer in a very small form factor (one you can carry around - one device to rule them all so to speak) I'd go with the Tilt. The iPhone is wonderful but it's also kind of constraining.

I think this sums up my thoughts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKsJDLj4nDI
Plus the Tilt is hotter in this video.

thanks for all the post guys... i think the Tilt is the right fone for me.... even though im using Tmobile so 3G phone is useless.
i like the GPS with TomTom feature too...
i might also buy the Iphone later if they drop the price... which they might since the new iphone is coming out very soon.

tseten said:
thanks for all the post guys... i think the Tilt is the right fone for me.... even though im using Tmobile so 3G phone is useless.
i like the GPS with TomTom feature too...
i might also buy the Iphone later if they drop the price... which they might since the new iphone is coming out very soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. Tilt has more options.
Also, I laugh at your statement of Apple dropping their price. My company unfortunately uses some Apples in its Design Department. I've never seen the price go down. When they announce a new "upgrade" The old one sells at the same price, or is dropped $20, while the new one sells for $50 or more over. Then when the old one is sold out, the new ones price drops down to the Old ones price. Just in time for it to start all over again. In fact the price on iMacs has gone UP incrementally.

Steering away from Windows Mobile...

Hello.
After over two years with WinMo, I've had it. I don't need to rant, because everyone knows what it would all be about.
I figured out all I really use is the web, the horrible calendar and the tasks. All of these are buggy and generally suck. I'm in need of a replacement device that can do this for under 300 dollars. No PalmOS, no blackberry.
I'm considering an iPod Touch, but I don't have a free pocket. I would love the Pre, but there's Bell. The iPhone is too expensive, sadly enough, so I'm out of options.
Is there a good phone with good music, web and PIM support that doesnt rely on data? GPS is a plus

Bye WM
Shame to hear that...
have a look on marketplace, good offers can be found!
Perhaps we will see you around in the future again

orb3000 said:
Shame to hear that...
have a look on marketplace, good offers can be found!
Perhaps we will see you around in the future again
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sadly enough, I doubt so. I found out I'm wasting way too much time on something that should simply be working. I loved the possibilities Windows Mobile offered, but now that many phones compete in the do-it-all field, Microsoft is taking the door.
Windows Mobile is the only mobile platform that will have you edit the registry and download tons of utilities just to get it to work okay. The Diamond was the best phone I've ever seen hardware-wise (perfect size, screen, look...), but Windows Mobile is never getting better (I had 6.5).
What drove me there? Well... my Internal Storage folder, for some unknown reason, changed names to Internal Storage2, and thus everything that relied on this path stopped working right. That was while using my phone in everyday use. On top of that, program crashes, random bugs and horrible PIM apps didn't help.
Let's admit it: Windows Mobile WAS good, back when PalmOS was still alive, but now it's just "that only mobile OS you can tweak". It's true, Windows Mobile can do everything, but it rarely ever does something right.
I still ask the question: what should I get?

On that case try to move to iphoney, as they are made specially to open and use people that not want to spend configuring and customizing and do not care to find that grandma, nephew, store owner, etc have exactly the same device looking almost identical...
For the rest of us that we still like and enjoy to spend hours customizing let´s stick around.
If I was thinking on leave WM I would go definitely to Android...
Have good luck on your new OS platform!

you could get a used iphone for less than 300 beans. but if i were to switch from windows mobile i would go with symbian and get an e71 or n95 or similar.

N1c0_ds said:
Is there a good phone with good music, web and PIM support that doesnt rely on data? GPS is a plus
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you are in the same boat as I was until about three weeks ago. I had a touch pro for about a year, and spent most of that time flashing new roms in the hope that I'd find a quick, stable rom that didn't eat my battery. I hated the web browsers because they were so buggy. In the end I resulted in cooking my own, but couldn't match the output that the top chefs were producing. The bottom line was that I couldn't find a rom that I liked that would do all the things you mentioned as well as I wanted them to.
So I bit the bullet. After using my friend's new Hero, I realised it was exactly what I was looking for in terms of just doing everything well. But the Hero was too expensive - I still have 6months to run on my contract so I can't afford a new contract and a new Hero.
So I bought a used sim free T-Mobile G1 from ebay, rooted it, and am now running a Hero rom. I haven't looked back. What a difference. Smooth, responsive and what a web browser - it rivals the iphone, and as far as i've experienced, the iphone is the best mobile web browsing experience you can have.
So this is my advice. Ditch WM and go Android. You can sync MS outlook contacts on hero roms using HTC Sync, and then store all contacts and calendar appointments online with Google calendar. As far as music and web are concerned, my G1 is a pleasure to use for both. Co-Pilot Live is also great turn based GPS navigation. Bluetooth doesn't work on any Hero rom, but I never use it, so I'm not really that bothered.
I haven't missed my Touch Pro at all since I sold it!
EDIT: I just realised that I haven't mentioned that the G1 does kind of rely on data. You can set most things to not use a data connection - like weather, facebook etc, but contacts and calendar do sync online periodically. I think you can change that as well though, so best do some research first...

Sorry to hear that. My advice is to get a Nokia with Symbian. N95 8GB is still the best Nokia phone.
If you want to be a beta-tester wait for something with Maemo or get Android. The Android phones currently on the market are crappy at best IMHO.
What kind of device do you prefer? Slide-out keyboard or candybar? Touchscreen or not?

I played with Android on a cornertop at a Rogers store and didn't enjoy it. My guess is that it's mostly because I didn't really explore, but compared to the almighty jesus phone, it wasn't worth the price.
The iPhone is 200$ (3y)/800$ with Rogers (tax inc.) and I'm stuck with them. However if I get an iPod Touch, even if I ditch the GPS, it costs me 200$ and I'm free to go with Koodoo (because that's what I'll do next spring).
I really wanted to try Android too, but the iPod Touch is a hassle-free solution. Nonetheless, I keep looking for really cheap Android phones on eBay. The Pre seemed like the most awesome thing ever, but this time it was Bell.
So I bought an iPod Touch 8GB 2 days ago (sold out everywhere, had to order from apple ) and I'll buy a cheap slim phone to complement it.

You should have gotten a Zune HD...

you should get an android phone...maybe the HTC Hero for sprint when it comes out since it'll have a normal headphone jack unlike the other android phones with only usb port