Related
Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
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I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.
I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
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I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.
_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That would work me thinks!!!!!
Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.
Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.
Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.
I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.
Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness
_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)
prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!
JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
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First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!
I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos
After some reading I came to find that you cannot dl paid apps if you root your phone. I would like to have the apps that I paid for. Is there anything like the iphone hacked phones where you can access the market?
With almost all of the recent ROMs you can download/access paid apps. That problem was fixed a loooooooonng time ago.
Wrong section, and if you would have done more reading you would have found that it is no longer a problem.
After some reading I came to find that you cannot dl paid apps if you root your phone. I would like to have the apps that I paid for. Is there anything like the iphone hacked phones where you can access the market?
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I find that basic reading and comprehension skills to be your main problem because it seems that your lack of these two key skills/superhuman abilities leads to you not being able to post this thread in the correct forum and not performing any type of search for an answer to your own question.
If we are able to solve these two of your presumed plethora of "issues" i believe that you'll live a better life etc. etc. etc...
stefan.buddle said:
I find that basic reading and comprehension skills to be your main problem because it seems that your lack of these two key skills/superhuman abilities leads to you not being able to post this thread in the correct forum and not performing any type of search for an answer to your own question.
If we are able to solve these two of your presumed plethora of "issues" i believe that you'll live a better life etc. etc. etc...
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I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
Elmi said:
I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
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Well, I hate to break it to you buddy, but this whole customization thing with the phones isnt a one stop shop. If you dont read, you're going to brick your phone. So since you have this all important life, and by implication, are too good to read up, perhaps you oughtta unroot until you have time to do things right, like maybe reading the sticky that says "dont post threads like this one in the freaking dev section".
Elmi said:
I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
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I'm sorry, I don't help stuck up idiots who can't even attempt to help themselves.
eabod....
If it really takes you all day of reading just to understand your cell phone, then you do have a problem.
As said the new roms dont suffer the same fate as the older ones. You should be just fine.
XDA is the wrong place to ask questions, even in the correct forum. People overall here seem to have a attitude that they know it all, and were born that way..its almost like they just jump on the bashing bandwagon simply because its the "happening" thing to do. Mind you only a very few are able to build and release roms, customizations and so on the rest are moochers only they like to pretend they are something special.
If you search, generally you will find what your looking for eventually, sometimes not at all and sometimes you find it but its so buried by other crap you dont know you found it. I guess your best bet is to make damn sure you posted your question in the correct forum, then hope that someone deems you important enough to answer..or just search the countless pages and deprive the bashers of the reason most are here and dont ask...my how the post counts would fall...you see a question asked and its jump on em fellas, he asked a question..1 smart remarks not enough, they line up to leave replies that most have thought of days earlier...just waiting to use it instead of simply linking to the answer, giving an idea where it may be found or something...nah, just bash em, that makes this place look all the more better, a much more friendly environment lol, whatever.
I enjoy xda, but honestly some of you make for a truly elementary experience, while a few others do a lot more...you come here for the roms, mods, hacks, for most of us not the ones we did, we can do or the ones we had a hand in creating..and you cant take a minute or two to answer a few questions? Think of the work the actual devs have done, the time involved, the testing over and over...wanna help some? Answer peoples simple questions without being an ass! If nothing else link em to where they should go!
I disagree, everytime these questions pop up, they are usually answered in the first reply, if not the second one.
But for the most part, I think being an ass is just a way to keep these wrong threads to the minimal.
I've never seen someone being an ass when a member ask a question (doesn't matter related to the topic of not) at the end of a ROMs' thread.
gn02256676 said:
I disagree, everytime these questions pop up, they are usually answered in the first reply, if not the second one.
But for the most part, I think being an ass is just a way to keep these wrong threads to the minimal.
I've never seen someone being an ass when a member ask a question (doesn't matter related to the topic of not) at the end of a ROMs' thread.
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I understand that, somewhat. But after his question was answered, do you see all the other people that posted, for no other reason then to try and belittle the guy that asked the question? Thats what I am referring to, those comments do nothing to help anyone, provide no use what so ever out side of making xda look like a buncha jerks.
Look at all the people that say its not helping by having questions in a release post, as it adds more to the dev having to sift over the comments, yet the " flashing now!" is just as off topic in reality as its not helping the dev know anything about any issues one may have..if people have to say "flashing now" then say I flashed, and heres what I found..see what I am saying?
Honestly people are going to be jerks on any forums, so it just comes with the territory. Usually you can avoid this by trying to learn some basic forum rules. Most are stickyed at the top of the forums. IMO use the search and spend like 15 to 20 mins to figure out what is going on in the forums. And then if your still stuck post in the Q&A forums.
The thing about this post that really roasts my goat is the OP lack of motivation to try and find his own answers. We are not his tech support and everybody here does this for free...Its disrespectful, insulting and lazy...
I have tons of respect for people that try to figure out problems for themselves first (search, google, read).
Please see this video [http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting] for proper forum etiquette. (I know, its old but its still damn funny and so true...)
@nickwinn does "eabod" really stand for what i think it stands for? if it does just mention something about the boondocks and i will know for sure
Elmi said:
I have a life, a very busy life, I'm not gonna sit here all day reading about my cell phone.
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Are we supposed to cater to your busy life when you decide to root your phone and not take the time to research more into it?
ThR1LL said:
Are we supposed to cater to your busy life when you decide to root your phone and not take the time to research more into it?
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but of course! what else are we here for? to help with reasonably asked questions where the poster doesn't get a massive attitude problem? of course not, we must be here to answer everyone of joe blow's question and disregard any attitude he/she may get!!!! please search next time before posting such mess ThR1LL
i think my head just burst from so much sarcasm
Hey at least the op took the time to read a little bit maybe it was outdated but a least he did try, so cut the guy some slack, he did better than some other people who read nothing and come right to here and expect some hand holding
People like the OP are why this forum is getting worse, and to ducter if you really think we are all assholes why do you come here? If you ask a question in the wrong forum we will most likely give you ****, but also give you a little help. If you use the correct forum we will help you, unless your question is ssomething you could of found out in less then 5 minutes by searching.
This forum has 100's of thousands of members and if half of them are asking questions that have been answered hundreds of times it clogs the forum and we lose sight of other valuable posts or people with real questions about problems that are new and have not been solved.
Furthermore when someone says some **** like they don't have time to read about there cell phone then why are you here in the first place? Don't root your phone or better yet goto the tmobile store and ask them to help you fix your rooted G1. If you can't take the time to read like everyone else does/should then go buy a lg env or something and maybe it will be simple enough for you to figure out.
I want to root my Dell Streak 7, 16 GB, T-Mobile model but I've been hesitant to do so because I've heard of many people getting their devices bricked after attempting to.
What are the chances of me bricking my device in the process of rooting and is it worth taking the risk or not?
Thanks.
5uprem3 said:
I want to root my Dell Streak 7, 16 GB, T-Mobile model but I've been hesitant to do so because I've heard of many people getting their devices bricked after attempting to.
What are the chances of me bricking my device in the process of rooting and is it worth taking the risk or not?
Thanks.
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If you are on 2.2 then rooting it is simple and easy with very little trouble. Just use an app call Gingerbreak, it is fully reversible.
otnos said:
If you are on 2.2 then rooting it is simple and easy with very little trouble. Just use an app call Gingerbreak, it is fully reversible.
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If you're gonna root it would be much easier to just flash the Clockwork Mod and flash DJ Steve's custom ROM for Froyo that comes tweaked and all
otnos said:
If you are on 2.2 then rooting it is simple and easy with very little trouble. Just use an app call Gingerbreak, it is fully reversible.
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Yes, I'm on 2.2. And thanks for the info, I'll check it out.
cdzo72 said:
If you're gonna root it would be much easier to just flash the Clockwork Mod and flash DJ Steve's custom ROM for Froyo that comes tweaked and all
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Hm.. I'm very new to all this Android stuff so I have no idea what all of that means. If you could give me more input on how to do that and where I could find all of that, I'd really appreciate it.
Thanks for answering though guys
Allow me to be very frank and honest... the fact that you ask for the information to be spoon fed to you allows us all to assume you haven't done near enough reading, the LAST thing you should be doing is rooting. The act of looking for the information will acclimate you to the things you should know. There are several threads on modifying the Streak 7 and what to do should you run into a wall. Until you read AND UNDERSTAND ALL OF THOSE THREADS you should flash ANYTHING to your device, please heed the warning, if not you'll be one of the hundreds getting flamed because you refused to educate yourself before tinkering with your device.
Yes, I at one time was a noob, and each time you buy a different device you are somewhat of a noob. I just purchased a Galaxy S2 and a Note to replace my Streak, I spent 2 weeks reading articles, skimming through ROM threads and devouring hundreds of pages before I flashed anything so I wouldn't have any trouble...
I for one did lots of reading but could not find all the answers, so I posted in the General Section. Well, over 500 views and not one reply. Nobody has done a Nandroid backup/restore???
wptski said:
I for one did lots of reading but could not find all the answers, so I posted in the General Section. Well, over 500 views abjuring not one reply. Nobody has done a Nandroid backup/restore???
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All the answers are in just a couple of threads
cdzo72 said:
All the answers are in just a couple of threads
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A needle in a big haystack! I can understand not wanting to explain with every move but all my question required a Y/N answer. Does that fit your repeated "spoon feed" answer?
As one posted, we are expected to read hundreds of posts to find one post where our question is answered. Is that just because that's the everyone is treated, so your expected to pass it along?
To answer your question would be a big fat YES! YOU ARE expected to read through those hundreds of posts that noobs such as yourself create because the answers to all your questions are in just a couple of threads posted by the more experienced. I read through those hundreds of threads to know what I know so what exempts the rest of you from the same adherence to the forum rules?
SGS II I9100 from TapaTalk
cdzo72 said:
To answer your question would be a big fat YES! YOU ARE expected to read through those hundreds of posts that noobs such as yourself create because the answers to all your questions are in just a couple of threads posted by the more experienced. I read through those hundreds of threads to know what I know so what exempts the rest of you from the same adherence to the forum rules?
SGS II I9100 from TapaTalk
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Well Mr. more experienced, so far not one of the more experienced hasn't answered with a simple Y/N. Must be too difficult to press a few keys, I guess or it's the "I had to learn the hard, so they'll have to also" mentality? You are one bitter person!
wptski said:
Well Mr. more experienced, so far not one of the more experienced hasn't answered with a simple Y/N. Must be too difficult to press a few keys, I guess or it's the "I had to learn the hard, so they'll have to also" mentality? You are one bitter person!
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CDZO72 is completely correct in that you SHOULD read hundreds of posts, not nessecerilly hundreds of pages.
How much is 100 posts? by default 1 page is 10 posts, so it's 10 pages of a thread. Usually you only need the OP and mabye the last 5 posts in a thread.
Then add in you should read half a dozen or so stickies. 50 posts of the RIGHT posts or so and you already can get an idea of what's good/bad, right/wrong. You can easily read several hundred in a sitting as skimming counts as reading for unimportant posts.
Who's fault is it when someone bricks their device because they didnt read everything? I'm pretty much the go-to guy for generating documentation and I rarely ever get any real suggestions to change/improve stuff.
All my stuff is medium-difficulty instructions as I refuse to hand-hold people though as most of my stuff is stuff that WILL BRICK you if done incorrectly. Many other guides tend to be easily broken, due to changes in stuff as hand holding is highly specific, generalized ones arnt easily broken, especially the ones I make.
The phrasing and tone that cdzo I dont agree with though, but until a certian threshold it's none of my concern. It's strongly worded but not rude yet. And he's completely right about the points, if you mess with a device and dont read everything, what is the next post you make? "HALP MY THNG DUN WORK"
I am assuming OP is new to android as a whole and now he's been pointed in the right direction to learn more.
OP hasnt implied he's refusing to read stuff, he merely implies that he has no idea what he should be reading. he SHOULD have read the stickies as they do cover most topics, he could have possibly read it and not understood it.
I always assume that the vast majority of users simply read the stuff and never post as they dont need to/have no issues with it. Often time the posters are the ones that dont understand/refuse to read for various reasons (and some of them could be legit reasons such as language barriers)
tl;dr: the vast majority of posts are issues that can be solved by thourghly reading the stickies, if they arnt they should tell me and we'll figure something out
Thanks to TheManii and explanation of my behavior
Thank you TheManii for backing me up to an extent, and I will be the first to apologize for my somewhat harsh answers at times but the points I want to make are the following:
1) If you don't have the time to do what TheManii just suggested then NO, no one should mod their device without feeling they can reverse what has been done
2) I have several devices.. my Streak 5, the Streak 7, Transformer Prime, SGS2 I9100 and an iPad 2... and lemme tell ya, comparitively speaking, these Streak forums are sleepy compared to the stupidity you see in some of those... especially the SGS2 forum, there are at least 100 NEW threads daily and 99% of them are JUNK, and 99% of the posts in existing threads are JUNK, so you can imagine how frustrating it is for someone such as myself when I acquire a new device and then have to weed through ALL THAT to find my answers, because I almost refuse to start a new thread because I doubt that anything I come across some developer has not already addressed, I just have to find it
3) so let me apologize to whoever may be offended by my sarcasm and rants, but if just a few people are motivated to alter their forum behavior by it, well I am more than willing to bear the burden of being lashed out at by the noobies that resent my responses
4) once again thank you TheManii for your support (I gave you a thanks for your post , once again you have proven you are TheManii
I dont believe you're doing it to be malicious, sometimes you dont really realize it until someone points it out.
Forums are always baised towards having users that are having trouble, as it's just as unproductive to make a post that says you got and understood everything. (unless it's some sort of thank you thread)
Actively saying you dont want to read is grounds for getting tarred and feathered by the mods (as in heavily chastized but nothing serious unless it's repeat offenses), I am not a mod though and fortunately dell devices dont get millions of posts an hour.
Just to repeat though, I always assume good faith in the OP, and he hasnt stated anything towards that yet.
hello friends, I saw the post and read because I thought it would help me to be root, I thought to find some link, I believe, and if they let me say that with a single link would suffice, or just see and pass by, I also have revealed with my htc and what would happen if they become damaged, and finally because of who will? for me is a language barrier, and read only the interesting threads but do not know much, a greeting
Enviado desde mi Dell Streak 7 usando Tapatalk
I've read 100's of pages of posts after reading some of "cdzo72's"" rude rants to noobies. I believe sombody else mentioned why does "cdzo72" even reply to a thread but only to rant?
TheManii, I really like the one where you told somebody, "Well, I'll toss you a bone". Really??
Then there's a response from "giveen" where I questioned his video(s). His answer was a link to Google! I know you guys are developers and you guys make this Dell S7 section for the most part. I shouldn't be agitating you guys but neither of you are going to win a Mr. Congeniality Awards.
Do you guys have children? If they ask you a question, do you give them the same kind of response that "some" noobies get here? Gosh, I hope not!
I'm a moderator in another forum and you would have heard from me long time ago because this rudeness just isn't allowed, no matter who you are or even what you bring to the plate.
In reference to my replyless thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1516530, I don't really see how a simple yes/no would have killed you?
I am not a dev, but I CAN speak for some the old devs that left the S5 area, they stopped replying/deving because they kept getting inundated with stupid questions.
When every time you get bombarded with questions that were clearly answered somewhere else it tells you it's simply easier to not release something publicly. I personally know one dev that stopped making releases because he kept getting asked stupid questions.
I'm hesitatnt to release anything if I'm not willing to fully support it, hence why the great majority of my roms are never released/only released to a small group.
Anyone who's on xda is by definition not a child (even this isnt the case, I would be surprised if there wernt devs on xda under 15, but I expect that many of them learned entirely on their own at that age), there's a point where you should be able to learn on your own without assistance.
The State Of Our Site – Not An Official Statement But A Perspective this sums it up to a degree. I could have sworn there was an official announcement that xda was for devs and users were simply along for the ride, not the other way around. I cant find it, I may be mistaken though as that link isnt a binding statement.
Just as much I've seen forums that outright instant-ban you for a couple days for even the simplest dumb question. With the size of it I dont really blame them. Keep in mind some like somethingawful requires PAYING to register and the users know beforehand that being probated is really easy for making bad/dumb posts. Yet they still register and pay to do so.
What the hell is going on in this forum? I've never seen a forum with so many posts for other devices. If there are any mods out there, would you be so kind to clean this place up a little.
from my Tranquil Rezound
I've been wondering the same thing. I realize XDA is a huge forum, but there are MANY Mods (so it seems). I find it hard to believe that these threads have been out of place for this long. I don't like to sound like I'm being rude, but there are threads that have been here for day after day and there's a list of mods at the top that look over this part of the forum. I know people have lives and all but I'd think that a mod would see things like "Xperia 8" "Zte v970m" and "monetize free desktop applications" and knew that something was wrong. o.o
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
I'm sure we have been wondering that...
From my Count there are 20 threads that have nothing to do with the one and were posted all for other devices. Thats quite ridiculous. I think its time that I unsubscribe from the Question and troubleshooting forum for the HTC One. Its quite a waste of time. Too many posts for devices and problems I don't really care about.
Instead of instantly saying "wrong forum", you might try asking what steps did they take to get to this post. Just a thought.
Sent from my Evo LTE using Tapatalk 2
I can understand maybe the odd noob getting confused and posting in here related to a "One series" phone....but posting in here for a "sammy" phone? WTF....even a noob couldn't be that dumb....could they?:silly:
Deffo agree that the place could do with a big clean up though.:good:
I am sure there were people who were really confused and made mistake posting other devices' question here.
BUT! This should not happen so frequently like this! People are noob in solving their phone's problem but are not so blind that they can't see the forum title!
So I believe this is organized activity that aims to mess up our htc one q&a section. They actually achieved their goal, see people are not subscribing to this section few posts above.
This is very sad, not trying to point finger to anyone/any company behind this, but if you consider xda forum is so powerful now those company's marketing people could easily use this place to promote their product, or on the other hand, prevent people from accessing valuable information by distracting them, then in the end, make them lose interest or potentially delay their decision of buying the forum related product.
We are all clever enough to figure out, if my theory is true, who is more likely behind this and so afraid of HTC's new flag ship One!
I think what we should do is, keep sticking to this forum, and post more related topics actively to show our support to our beloved device. We need this q&a section and it is down to us in the end to keep it active!
actually, I found it quite amusing, every time I come here, there were new posts asking unrelated questions, and this actually makes me come here more often.
Also, I would like to point out, we should NEVER answer those unrelated question but only point out they are posted at the wrong place, and only the first one or two people doing that will be enough. We want those threads die out quickly not keep remerging at the top!!!
Please help all of us keep this place as it should be! And keep calm and carry on.
Reported all the threads which should not be here to the mods so hopefully they will pop along and do a quick tidy up for us.
How does one become a mod anyways? Because I've never seen any of the mods for these forums, I'd rather see one of us (that is seen on the ONE forums frequently) to become a mod that way at least we have someone who will see all these post about different devices.
BigNate said:
How does one become a mod anyways? Because I've never seen any of the mods for these forums, I'd rather see one of us (that is seen on the ONE forums frequently) to become a mod that way at least we have someone who will see all these post about different devices.
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They used to take applications, not anymore
We have plenty on mods, they just won't really moderate this forum until the device is released
Sent from my One X using Tapatalk 2
So where are the mods?
We are here of course. I alone have moved 15 threads today to the right forums, and I must admit that I also haven't seen so many ill-placed posts anywhere yet. Maybe the One-Forum is like a magnet, lol. Or it really is some deliberate action.
Those threads are taken care of if reported or if seen by coincidence. But we don't open every thread in Q&A. And at least the ones I have moved today were not recognizable as misplaced from the thread title. Or would you see from "Never worked" that the poster meant his SGS3?
So I close this now.
It seems there has been some kind of technical issue, which meant threads ended up in this forum, without actually having been posted in this forum.
Rule 1 clearly states, that you shall read the thread first and then ask questions. So, most questions are answered in the first post. In my case people are asking again and again "is the rom quitable for model XY" and similar things. This is obviously a violation of rule 1. I wouldn't mind, but the threads are growing rapidly. 50% is just asking this question, 20% is "can confirm that bug xy is present" or "installation not working", while not following the instructions, which is also useless. 10% is asking for feature xy, usually for an unfinished rom, which is not working 100%. So only 20% is really information. As the threads grow and grow you are literally unable to find the information you are looking for and people don't look too, they even don't read the first post; they just ask. And the thread grows with this spam.
I hinted someone to read the first post. The answer was right there. My post was deleted with the hint "If you don't help then shut up". But really, is this necessary? I don't know if I'm the only one, but posts like these should be deleted with a hint, that the poster should read the first post. This would make the threads clearer, cleaner and shorter.
Any ideas on that?
I completely agree with you. People should definitely read more and ask less.
Great post, hope people READ it.
Sent from my SM-N910C using Tapatalk
massehullah said:
I completely agree with you. People should definitely read more and ask less.
Great post, hope people READ it.
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Thanks.
I hope mods read it and maybe agree too.
jacdelad said:
Rule 1 clearly states, that you shall read the thread first and then ask questions. So, most questions are answered in the first post. In my case people are asking again and again "is the rom quitable for model XY" and similar things. This is obviously a violation of rule 1. I wouldn't mind, but the threads are growing rapidly. 50% is just asking this question, 20% is "can confirm that bug xy is present" or "installation not working", while not following the instructions, which is also useless. 10% is asking for feature xy, usually for an unfinished rom, which is not working 100%. So only 20% is really information. As the threads grow and grow you are literally unable to find the information you are looking for and people don't look too, they even don't read the first post; they just ask. And the thread grows with this spam.
I hinted someone to read the first post. The answer was right there. My post was deleted with the hint "If you don't help then shut up". But really, is this necessary? I don't know if I'm the only one, but posts like these should be deleted with a hint, that the poster should read the first post. This would make the threads clearer, cleaner and shorter.
Any ideas on that?
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You're not wrong about people not searching or reading OPs. I always call Rule #1 the number one rule we don't enforce. Maybe we should somehow, but it's not really enforceable as someone could search and just miss it.
I looked through the thread and saw you answered the same question for somebody else previously so a simple search would have revealed that. When you said your post was deleted with "If you don't help then shut up", that piqued my interest so I looked into it. The issue wasn't that you hinted he search, but in the way you said it. You called the guy a spammer which started an argument so to the moderator, it looked like you were blasting someone for not searching. Had you said something like, "I answered this last week; search through the thread and you'll find it." then you most likely would have been fine. Most (all?) of us moderators don't like to spoon-feed members so we understand if you nicely tell someone to search instead of giving them the answer directly.
I get the frustration with people asking if ROM X supports Device Y, but I blame that on the manufacturers and carriers for not making things uniform, not on members. I have a Sprint HTC One m7 and so have to be very careful about flashing international variant ROMs. If the OP isn't clear if there is Sprint support, then I could brick my device. Vice versa, we have a lot of people in the Sprint fora for the device who are trying to use it on international CDMA carriers and are constantly asking about that compatibility. It can be annoying, but I see both sides.
By the way, my (PM) door's always open if you need help or just need to vent on something. I'd rather you do that then say something in thread that could get you in trouble.
coal686 said:
You're not wrong about people not searching or reading OPs. I always call Rule #1 the number one rule we don't enforce. Maybe we should somehow, but it's not really enforceable as someone could search and just miss it.
I looked through the thread and saw you answered the same question for somebody else previously so a simple search would have revealed that. When you said your post was deleted with "If you don't help then shut up", that piqued my interest so I looked into it. The issue wasn't that you hinted he search, but in the way you said it. You called the guy a spammer which started an argument so to the moderator, it looked like you were blasting someone for not searching. Had you said something like, "I answered this last week; search through the thread and you'll find it." then you most likely would have been fine. Most (all?) of us moderators don't like to spoon-feed members so we understand if you nicely tell someone to search instead of giving them the answer directly.
I get the frustration with people asking if ROM X supports Device Y, but I blame that on the manufacturers and carriers for not making things uniform, not on members. I have a Sprint HTC One m7 and so have to be very careful about flashing international variant ROMs. If the OP isn't clear if there is Sprint support, then I could brick my device. Vice versa, we have a lot of people in the Sprint fora for the device who are trying to use it on international CDMA carriers and are constantly asking about that compatibility. It can be annoying, but I see both sides.
By the way, my (PM) door's always open if you need help or just need to vent on something. I'd rather you do that then say something in thread that could get you in trouble.
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You're right, my tone wasn't the nicest. It's the frustration speaking through said post. The same posts over and over again...you also surely read the answer on m post, something like "deleting post of someone saying you should use the search function".
But I can't agree with the variant problem. Nearly all ROMs clear that up in the first post, most of them already in the title. If you want to flash, you need dome knowledge. You have to read before, maybe watch a YouTube video. This clears most questions.
Take a look at the carhd rom-thread from carotix. It has 1545 pages now, carotix is very active and makes frequently updates. The people are begging, some demanding, certain features which were available with mm, but not on n yet. I cannot understand how he stays so calm.
Look at the N0G33K kernel thread for the Galaxy S6. Count how often it's asked if this kernel is for n. This information is cleared up in the first post...and this is nothing else than spamming and laziness.
Maybe it would be useful to have a more concrete forced design for the op. Something unified, maybe a template which would have the information always on the same place (version, model etc.). But I guess this wouldn't stop the unnecessary questions.
Maybe a "unnecessary"-button for this kind of spam would help. A moderator could delete post and hint the poster to read the rules/op.
In a forum this big, things get lost very easily and forum searches aren't great.
One of my topics has had no responses, despite being a somewhat valid question (what phone protection do you have - case, film screen, glass)
Yet, if there were yearly versions, stickied, then simple questions would get answered in the one thread.
jacdelad said:
But I can't agree with the variant problem. Nearly all ROMs clear that up in the first post, most of them already in the title. If you want to flash, you need dome knowledge. You have to read before, maybe watch a YouTube video. This clears most questions.
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The OP of that thread you mentioned didn't say though, or if it did, I couldn't find it. Nearly everything was hidden under hide tags, but I went through them all. Now, I will admit that I'm an HTC guy and so it might have been there in secret Samsung code and I just missed it.
jacdelad said:
Take a look at the carhd rom-thread from carotix. It has 1545 pages now, carotix is very active and makes frequently updates. The people are begging, some demanding, certain features which were available with mm, but not on n yet. I cannot understand how he stays so calm.
Look at the N0G33K kernel thread for the Galaxy S6. Count how often it's asked if this kernel is for n. This information is cleared up in the first post...and this is nothing else than spamming and laziness.
Maybe it would be useful to have a more concrete forced design for the op. Something unified, maybe a template which would have the information always on the same place (version, model etc.). But I guess this wouldn't stop the unnecessary questions.
Maybe a "unnecessary"-button for this kind of spam would help. A moderator could delete post and hint the poster to read the rules/op.
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Yes, that is an unfortunate problem. I don't know if you saw the thread where we discussed "sharing changes", but some ideas to deal with this exact complaint came up and are being considered. If you have any feedback you'd like to add, feel free.
anotherxdauser said:
In a forum this big, things get lost very easily and forum searches aren't great.
One of my topics has had no responses, despite being a somewhat valid question (what phone protection do you have - case, film screen, glass)
Yet, if there were yearly versions, stickied, then simple questions would get answered in the one thread.
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That unfortunately happens sometimes and to me, it's a shame.
Look at this thread:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s6/orig-development/beta-stable-lineageos-14-1-t3583456
First post after the ones from the devs is "does not work on edge". Op clearly states that is only for flat by now.
Really, I'm about to become a Nazi by reading this...