Database Develop

State of the Forum/Newbies

Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such

I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V

As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?

d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
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I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon

Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents

vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.

I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)

vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
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I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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Click to collapse
That would work me thinks!!!!!

Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.

Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.

Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.

I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.

Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness

_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)

prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason

mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!

JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
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Click to collapse
First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!

I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos

New guys with a lot of questions.

Hello everyone. As you can probably tell I am new to this forum. I recently bought my first PPC (Tilt) and I am thoroughly happy with my device (thus far). Seeing how I am new to this genre of phones. I decided to surf the internet to see what kind of info was available for my new toy. To make a long story short, after I surfing the internet and visiting many different forums. I noticed the XDA or XDA developers being used frequently. So I decided to do a Google search which directed me here. I must admit I am thoroughly impressed by this forum (website) and plan to be a contributing member. I have learned so much about the capabilities of my phone. You guys are really amazing. Which leads me to my problem? I am having a difficult time understanding the verbiage being used to describe the various different upgrade features being discuss on this board. All That being said I have some question I would like to ask. But first I have decided to condense my questions on one thread as to make it easier for other interested parties as well as for me to find. However feel free to direct my question or to add a link that can answer my question at your convenience as I know many (if not all) these question have been answered in other threads (sorry remember I am unfamiliar with all these new words).
1)Is there some sort of getting started manual that I can used to better understand the various different words being used on this forum?
What does flash, cooking, roms, etc mean?
2) I would like to get rid of all the ATT stuff (for a lack of a better word) that on my phone and upload all the high speed HTC stuff.
I would like to do this in hopes of increasing performance as well as to have all the programs and features that where meant for the TYTN 2. If one could list the steps or refer me to the link that could do this it would be greatly appreciated.
3)How does a person find out about the various different applications or program that are available for my phone?
This would be of great interest to me. In particularly when it comes to music and radio stations. What is the best music/media player available? What is the best program to listen to various radio stations? And what site can I use to research this stuff?
4) Lastly I am really interested in all this voip stuff (Skyp, Google talk, etc). It would be pretty cool to use the internet to make phone calls instead of paying for daytime minutes. How would one go about doing this? Am I to understand that I can used my phone exactly the same way but through the internet?
I wanted to take the time to thank those who answered my question (and those that didn’t) as well as to developer of this board.
Thank you
Bulldog1

i think if you spend some time looking through these forums you'll be able to extrapolate many of these answers.
i'm not trying to be a jerk but your questions are kind of extensive and mostly answered with a bit of digging.
sorry.

Bulldog1 said:
Hello everyone. As you can probably tell I am new to this forum.
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Welcome to the forum...
Bulldog1 said:
1)Is there some sort of getting started manual that I can used to better understand the various different words being used on this forum?
What does flash, cooking, roms, etc mean?
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No manual - you learn from osmosis.
I am pretty new around here as well... but a long time lurker...
So - to help as much as possible - here is a quick answer to your questions:
Flashing is when you overwrite / rewrite the firmware. It is the method used to put different ROMs on your device.
Cooking is where you create a custom ROM image - so it comes customized with whatever the chef puts on it.
ROM - think of it as an operating system image that is transfered from your computer to your device.
Bulldog1 said:
2) I would like to get rid of all the ATT stuff (for a lack of a better word) that on my phone and upload all the high speed HTC stuff.
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Go to the Kaiser Upgrading subforum - sticky at the top is the place to start.
Bulldog1 said:
3)How does a person find out about the various different applications or program that are available for my phone?
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Read read read.
Bulldog1 said:
This would be of great interest to me. In particularly when it comes to music and radio stations. What is the best music/media player available? What is the best program to listen to various radio stations? And what site can I use to research this stuff?
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This site is chalk full of information about these kinds of things: Kaiser is pretty new - so hit one of the other forums under XDA. Software sitting on top of the OS should be pretty standard... ;-)
Bulldog1 said:
4) Lastly I am really interested in all this voip stuff (Skyp, Google talk, etc). It would be pretty cool to use the internet to make phone calls instead of paying for daytime minutes. How would one go about doing this? Am I to understand that I can used my phone exactly the same way but through the internet?
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Kinda. But not as well. Data connections are more prone to dropping than voice calls.
It is cheaper to call internationally though... ;-)
So if you have a good connection and you aren't moving... it is a great alternative.
Bulldog1 said:
I wanted to take the time to thank those who answered my question (and those that didn’t) as well as to developer of this board.
Thank you
Bulldog1
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Welcome dude.
-Daniel

yeah, a glossary of terms would be great. as I read more it makes more sense and I find myself searching some of the terms online. be nice to have somewhere with meanings of WWE, SPL etc mean.

Welcome to the board. I would recomend reading all the wiki's that are stuck in each section and also the search button will bring many many threads on all the questions you have asked. Try this one to get you started. http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser Good luck
d

I'm in the same boat as you. I read through the posts here and found them really helpful, especially the stickied ones about flashing ROMs.
The best way to get rid of the AT&T stuff is to flash your ROM. Flashing your rom to the HTC-rom will wipe the AT&T bundled software and replace it with the set that comes with the TyTn II (although no TomTom).
I've been trying to find answers to some of your questions too (especially where to find good software and media players), so I'm looking forward to replies from the older members.

trublu said:
yeah, a glossary of terms would be great. as I read more it makes more sense and I find myself searching some of the terms online. be nice to have somewhere with meanings of WWE, SPL etc mean.
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WWE: World Wide English
SPL: System Programming Language (my guess?)

Welcome to the forum, i am also new. As to your question of what is the best media player, it is TCMP, it plays almost everything (even .flv files!) but support has been discontinued because the ppl made it a commercial product...mind you very tech savy ppl are still continuing support for it and adding codecs and stuff.
to download it and some codects, go to this website:
http://www.4winmobile.com/forums/ht...cial-hybrid-media-player-all-codecs-here.html
Hope that helped

Thank you. I can understand that some question may too broad to answer in this thread. I understand that alot of my question are answered in other threads and for this I appologies.
The the reason I ask those question is becuase I do not understand the language being used. I have read (reread) the stinky under the kaiser upgrades tabs but still do not understand what exactly it is saying (or what it is supposed to do).
While I agree most of my other questions can be answered in other threads it would be of great help to me if someone could explain in greater detail to me my question number 2 which I have reprinted below.
I would like to get rid of all the ATT stuff (for a lack of a better word) that on my phone and upload all the high speed HTC stuff.
I would like to do this in hopes of increasing performance as well as to have all the programs and features that where meant for the TYTN 2. If one could list the steps or refer me to the link that could do this it would be greatly appreciated.
thank u

Bulldog1 said:
I would like to get rid of all the ATT stuff (for a lack of a better word) that on my phone and upload all the high speed HTC stuff.
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Step 1: Download and use kaiser-HardSPLv1.zip and follow directions found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1562805&postcount=1
Step 2: Download HTC rom from here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/5781641...dio_sign_22.45.88.07_1.27.12.11_Ship.rar.html
UnRar and run the executable.
Pat yourself on the back for getting me to type this out instead of reading the other forum yourself. ;-)
Oh - and if anything goes wrong... don't blame me.
You will also need the keyboard fix found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1565226&postcount=1
Later.
-Daniel

dweidman said:
Step 1: Download and use kaiser-HardSPLv1.zip and follow directions found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1562805&postcount=1
Step 2: Download HTC rom from here:
http://rapidshare.com/files/5781641...dio_sign_22.45.88.07_1.27.12.11_Ship.rar.html
UnRar and run the executable.
Pat yourself on the back for getting me to type this out instead of reading the other forum yourself. ;-)
Oh - and if anything goes wrong... don't blame me.
You will also need the keyboard fix found here:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=1565226&postcount=1
Later.
-Daniel
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You guys are great, I can see a sprite of sharing and helping in this forum. Again, you guys are the best, especially thanks to Daniel.
I bought a Chinese unlocked version Kaiser in Hong Kong, and I found out that it is not that convenience to me even though I can read Chinese. With Chinese Windows, it runs very slow. I decided to flash the ROM with HTC standard English ROM.
However, because of warranty issue, I need to backup the Chinese OS ROM, and restore it to its original setting if in case I have to take it back to HTC for repairing.
I am totally new to PPC or WM devices (I used to be a Palm lover), I wonder if anyone of you can tell me how to "Backup" and "Restore" the ROM. Detail instructions will be highly appreciated.
Sorry for my stupid questions, but I really don't know how. Whether I get the instructions or not, YOU GUYS ARE THE BEST!!!!!!!!!

AT&T Tilt install files.

I recently got an AT&T Tilt to replace my TyTN. I've been searching these forums and haven't been able to find any information about how installation and customization files are run after a hard reset. On the TyTN I was able to modify the Extended ROM but there doesn't seem to be an Extended ROM that I can find on the Tilt. The AT&T settings are being installed from somewhere but I can't seem to find any information about where that is or how to modify them. I've probably looked right at the information and didn't even recognize it. Any pointers would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks

Here
Next time use the search feature
Mike
forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=401543 - 82k

Thank you so much, I really appreciate your excellent and considerate help but I've been searching and reading posts for over a week trying to find a simple answer to my question.
Perhaps I'm going blind, perhaps I don't know the exact word or phrase to search for or perhaps the answer to my question isn't even here, I don't know which. I do know that I'm not an idiot and I appreciate not being treated like one.
If, in fact, the information I seek exists on this forum I have managed to miss it but I HAVE TRIED, REPEATEDLY! So, if it wouldn't be too much of an imposition, could someone please point me in the proper direction?
Thank you.

gkunz said:
I've been searching and reading posts for over a week trying to find a simple answer to my question.
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I've walked in your shoes. Ignore the morons who look for opportunities to flame others.
Try this link:
XDA-Kaiser wiki: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser
Look for:
the Cab Collection - All you need to build your TILT (exactly how you like it) and the answer to your question.
The Troubleshooting section
Extra software to customize the buttons.
I hope this helps! And don't let others get your goat. It's not the ups and downs that are bothersome on the internet, it's the jerks.

DJBerg said:
I've walked in your shoes. Ignore the morons who look for opportunities to flame others.
Try this link:
XDA-Kaiser wiki: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Kaiser
Look for:
the Cab Collection - All you need to build your TILT (exactly how you like it) and the answer to your question.
The Troubleshooting section
Extra software to customize the buttons.
I hope this helps! And don't let others get your goat. It's not the ups and downs that are bothersome on the internet, it's the jerks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excellent suggestion and thanks very much for the helpful response!
Gene

Actually I'm one of the morons who often flames others who don't search... but this isn't one of those times - I had the same question when moving from TyTN to TyTN II.
In TyTN II there isn't an extended ROM - I think that all these customisations are built into the rom itself. This means that you can't just modify the extended rom file to pick which customisations are loaded. BUT, you can bypass the customisations altogether by soft resetting before they begin (after a rom flash or hard reset) - you are then free to add any customisations you like from the numerous cabs available.
An even better method would be to load a custom rom , thereby saving the space the unused customisations take and then add programs to suit.

[QUEST] List of all roms available

i`m not sure if i`m breaking any rules by posting this but i`m new on this forum and i have only one problem .. when i`m trying to search for a rom i have ten's of results and onlyt 10 % of them give me what i want .. and sometimes not even thoes... i found a thread in the themes and app section whit known apps working on the touch hd etc ..
could someone make something like this for the roms ..
it`s a nightmare to search for a rom ..
this could be verry helpfull .. just "stick" the thread to the top of the forum and there a moderator or anyone who wants the job could post every existing rom and the link to it ..
no description .. just something like this :
name(dutty`s r4),(miri`s etc) win 6.5 .. build 2****
link (or something close to this)
the reason for wanting this is because whenever i`m trying to search for something i`m spending literaly hours trying to find the rom, app etc ..
thank`s for the answer .. what ever that is

first, let me welcome you to xda! what information are you searching for? your best bet is to read the 1st-10th posts of each ROM thread for details on the the ROM. reading the first few posts of each thread and then posts after the posted ROM release date (usually in the thread title) is the approach i use to get feedback.

cortez.i said:
first, let me welcome you to xda! what information are you searching for? your best bet is to read the 1st-10th posts of each ROM thread for details on the the ROM. reading the first few posts of each thread and then posts after the posted ROM release date (usually in the thread title) is the approach i use to get feedback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i`m starting to get my way around .. but it`s still a bit confsing sometimes .. because it seems that every chef after releasing a new rom he is just posting it in the previews threat without starting a new one .. and sometimes it`s quite confusing .. in the same threat you find 2 3 5 roms everyone diferent builds and it`s not always easy to gues witch is what .. anyway this could be a good ideea .. at least 50% of the users here don`t use english as their base language and it`s not easy for all to find what they are looking for... i started this thread because it was trying to find miri`s build 23053 test .. i was hoping to find`it in a new title but i found`it in a older thread .. somewere at the bottom of the post.. realy hard considering i had screenshots from older builds and the title was saying something else .. anyway .. i would startit myself but i`m away form my pc about 12 hours a day (not counting the sleep )and don`t have the time
thanks for the reply and please excuse my bad english

scoutish said:
i`m starting to get my way around .. but it`s still a bit confsing sometimes .. because it seems that every chef after releasing a new rom he is just posting it in the previews threat without starting a new one .. and sometimes it`s quite confusing .. in the same threat you find 2 3 5 roms everyone diferent builds and it`s not always easy to gues witch is what .. anyway this could be a good ideea .. at least 50% of the users here don`t use english as their base language and it`s not easy for all to find what they are looking for... i started this thread because it was trying to find miri`s build 23053 test .. i was hoping to find`it in a new title but i found`it in a older thread .. somewere at the bottom of the post.. realy hard considering i had screenshots from older builds and the title was saying something else .. anyway .. i would startit myself but i`m away form my pc about 12 hours a day (not counting the sleep )and don`t have the time
thanks for the reply and please excuse my bad english
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its not a bad idea, but it would also be very time consuming. You have to remember that a benchmark thread already exists which gives some information on each rom already, but not to the extent your seeking. Why not have a go at creating this thread yourself and add to this site. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate your effort.

Fallen Spartan said:
Its not a bad idea, but it would also be very time consuming. You have to remember that a benchmark thread already exists which gives some information on each rom already, but not to the extent your seeking. Why not have a go at creating this thread yourself and add to this site. I'm sure a lot of people would appreciate your effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
love to .. but like u said it would also be very time consuming .. and i don`t really have the time .. i will give`it a try .. but don`t be surprized if the thread apears after 2-3 months ...
im away from home 12 - 13 hours a day and that`s why i invited someone else to give`it a go .. i just came with the ideea
so who ever reads this and wants the job .. go ahead .. a lot of people will love you after the thread`s release

I've re-opened this thread.
Hopefully others want to help and assist this quest. I'll watch thread closely and if it develops I may sticky it. But its a long way off this for now.
Good luck

Hello
I am willing to give this a try.
I would first like to hear how it would be best to do it because it could quickly get messy.
So feel free to post your suggestions.
I would then be able to asess if i can really manage it.
Jay

j1978 said:
Hello
I am willing to give this a try.
I would first like to hear how it would be best to do it because it could quickly get messy.
So feel free to post your suggestions.
I would then be able to asess if i can really manage it.
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would suggest making a google documents account, and setting up a spreadsheet. Make it open access to all, and arrange with ROMs down the side and details along the top. You could have sections for different authors with their ROMs all in one place. Once you have a bare bones structure, invite people to contribute and publish the address of the spreadsheet.
Good luck, it's a great idea. I would also invite proposals for what column headings you have (eg it would be good to have votes so particularly successful ROMs could be identified.)

I'm also lost in the world of rom's
for a start:
what should be in the spreadsheet?
Name of the rom
Language
Version
On what WM is it based
Date of release
programs installed
Known problems and if they're solved

stormyb said:
I'm also lost in the world of rom's
for a start:
what should be in the spreadsheet?
Name of the rom
Language
Version
On what WM is it based
Date of release
programs installed
Known problems and if they're solved
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi
everything ok besides the last suggestion that would be to difficult i think.
Will post back on updates
Jay

Hello
ok Here is a barebone first try. Please view and suggest improvements. If you would like access to edit and add roms please post here or Pm me.
Jay

There was a page on the Wiki that was kept up to date:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Blackstone_cookedroms
This doesn't seem to have been updated for some time.
Surely this is the best solution, a sticky in the forum which links to the Wiki, and that page is kept up to date.
Maybe the Wiki main page should have details and links to the latest ROM version for each ROM out there, and each one has a link to a page which has previous links in there. These ROMs could be grouped by Chef, and give the Chef an oppotunity to write something brief if they wish.
I do agree that is it very annoying that new threads are not started when a new version of a ROM appears as all the comments relate to when the thread was first started.
I would be happy to be in a group of people to keep the Wiki up to date...
Maybe we need to make it easy as well for the Chefs to notify moderators of the Wiki cooked ROMs page they have release a new version.
Jason

I wouldn't mind allowing someone access to editing Wingster and adding a Touch HD section to my website. I need someone who is dedicated and has time to keep it updated though.
Any takers? The website is (www.thewingster.com)

Jason1978 said:
There was a page on the Wiki that was kept up to date:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Blackstone_cookedroms
This doesn't seem to have been updated for some time.
Surely this is the best solution, a sticky in the forum which links to the Wiki, and that page is kept up to date.
Maybe the Wiki main page should have details and links to the latest ROM version for each ROM out there, and each one has a link to a page which has previous links in there. These ROMs could be grouped by Chef, and give the Chef an oppotunity to write something brief if they wish.
I do agree that is it very annoying that new threads are not started when a new version of a ROM appears as all the comments relate to when the thread was first started.
I would be happy to be in a group of people to keep the Wiki up to date...
Maybe we need to make it easy as well for the Chefs to notify moderators of the Wiki cooked ROMs page they have release a new version.
Jason
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm indeed the wiki seems to be the most logical solution.
Jay

I had just picked up on this thread and was about to comment on the spreadsheet and the fact that I'm sure a Wiki page was updated once upon a time and low and behold, it's been posted!
The fact is whilst many people are fluent with cooked ROM's, there are MANY more that have a number of valid reasons for being sceptical and wanting specific information before trying.
My personal belief is that the Wiki would be the best solution for this as it can be edited by all.
However I think a mandatory standard should be introduced. Something along the lines of:
ROM Name|OS Ver|Win Release|Manila Ver & Build|Features (top 5?)|Known Bugs (Cooker) | Community common issues|
Just something like this to get some sort of understanding.
For instance, in most of the recent ROMs there seems to be an issue with MMS but the cooker doesn't necessarily agree that it's a ROM issue, hence the community common issues section.
I'm working off my own experiences here however. I personally want to know what device it will work on, what the OS and Manila versions are, what the features are but what the tradeoff to known bugs are if I flash this ROM.
One last thing - Whilst I understand that many of the cookers have other things that are ongoing and therefore get to their ROM's as and when they can and again provide support where they can, I have seen very little support for their ROM's as they know there is another around the corner. That to me is the biggest issue for people wishing to jump into the world of cooked ROMS - the ability to know exactly what they are and aren't getting. Standard ROMs provide that and hence the comfort it brings.
Comments & thoughts?

Wiggz said:
However I think a mandatory standard should be introduced. Something along the lines of:
ROM Name|OS Ver|Win Release|Manila Ver & Build|Features (top 5?)|Known Bugs (Cooker) | Community common issues|
Just something like this to get some sort of understanding.
I'm working off my own experiences here however. I personally want to know what device it will work on, what the OS and Manila versions are, what the features are but what the tradeoff to known bugs are if I flash this ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hello
A mandatory standard is definitly needed for the Wiki.
I guess we now need to form a team/group of people who are willing to invest some time in updating the wiki.
As for what you say on rom support, the rom thread gives you a lot of info it would also add a lot of work on an already ambitious project.
The main goal here is to provide a single place where you can see and find all available roms.
Jay

j1978 said:
Hello
A mandatory standard is definitly needed for the Wiki.
I guess we now need to form a team/group of people who are willing to invest some time in updating the wiki.
As for what you say on rom support, the rom thread gives you a lot of info it would also add a lot of work on an already ambitious project.
The main goal here is to provide a single place where you can see and find all available roms.
Jay
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well count me in - I'm willing to be a part of this. I really feel that for the "average user" there is very little that they can get at quickly and effectively. If you are a power user you can go through the whole "editing of manila files" and the other titbits in the threads but the fact is most people don't expect "normal" functions to be interrupted by new ROMs...they expect enhancements with no reduction in usability. I understand that there is a trade-off, but i think that trade-off should be immediately understood and available for all users to see.

Same here....
I have started tonight compiling some of the ROM details...
I could add a new table into the Cooked ROMs Wiki page with where I am up to and so people can get an idea of the layout I am proposing?
Personally I think there should be a table per WM version, and also per language, although I have concentrated efforts firstly on WWE.
I also would group in the table by Chef, listing their variants next to each other, each on a different line, but light, standard, heavy builds of the same variant that are usually on the same thread should be on one line, I think we can span the lines in the table on the Wiki so it looks right. The main table should only have latest links, and maybe another Wiki page with previous links, that we move when a new one comes out, so a record is kept where possible.
The column where the name of the ROM series is will link to the thread, with the download links having its own column if possible (maybe with light, standard, heavy if applicable)
Mods: Can you advise on posting links to other sites, i.e. with Dutty etc going to HTCPedia. Some of these Chefs generate a lot of interest, dont really want to exclude these...
Thanks
Jason
EDIT::
I have updated the cooked ROMs page, added a new table near the top, only WM6.5 ROMs WWE versions.
Not an extensive list yet, and some missing information as threads dont have some detail:
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Blackstone_cookedroms
Need to decide on whether the columns are suitable and whether there is more information that would be handy, and/or any other revisions to the layout. If anyone is aware of any of the missing information, that would be great, just go ahead and fill it in...
MODS: Could do with a new thread with a sticky, pointing to the cooked ROM Wiki page once we have sorted it out please.

Chaps,
Now I have put an example table on the cooked roms wiki page, can everyone who is interested take a look and see if we can make this wiki useful...
Thanks

Hello
Nice work! but as you might have noticed there is allready a wm 6.5 section so now we have two.
altough anyone can edit the wiki i was advised by the Mods to first compile the data and then when we have most of the info edit the wiki .
so i suppose we should focus on editing the google spreadsheet i set up.
If anyone wants access please post here.
P.S Jason and Wiggz please PM me a google username so i can add you to the list.
Jay

REQUEST for ROM WIKI page listing details

I am requesting that the powers that be create a ROM Wiki Page where cooks can enter the vital stats of their roms in a table/spreadsheet format so that innocent rom flashers such as myself can do direct comparisons between roms with out having to wade through hundreds of pages posts etc.
And I also request that chefs use this page and follow the table structure. And that you update your rom on the wiki page when a new version comes out.
Please!
This part may be too ambitious, but I would also like to see on the table a column for user score. Could be a simple 5 star system. Each rom there could have a link to a brief review containing questions about usability, stability, battery life etc.. Graded on a 5 star scale. All the answers would be averaged together and would be reflected on the above mentioned table as a simple score

cameraddict said:
I am requesting that the powers that be create a ROM Wiki Page where cooks can enter the vital stats of their roms in a table/spreadsheet format so that innocent rom flashers such as myself can do direct comparisons between roms with out having to wade through hundreds of pages posts etc.
And I also request that chefs use this page and follow the table structure. And that you update your rom on the wiki page when a new version comes out.
Please!
This part may be too ambitious, but I would also like to see on the table a column for user score. Could be a simple 5 star system. Each rom there could have a link to a brief review containing questions about usability, stability, battery life etc.. Graded on a 5 star scale. All the answers would be averaged together and would be reflected on the above mentioned table as a simple score
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me the thing about that is a ROM can run totally different on each device and the Roms are changing every day so i think it would be to hard to keep up with it all and i do not think a chef would like his or her ROM being put next to another ROM so see if the ROM is doing good or bad i know thats what it wont be for but that will happen and it takes me 5 Min's a day to scan through the Roms and see how they are doing i doubt if any chefs would agree to it and it takes all there time to do i new rom so they dont need any extra work in double posting it just my 2pence worh

I hear your concerns. Perhaps just scrap the idea about the rating system.
But if the chef put the basic info for his rom up we could see and compare to determine what roms we may want to use. Like What build they use, whether they used manila 2.1 or 2.5. What programs they add or subtract, what dialer, what page pool setting... etc.. things like these. I am just looking for a good starting point to do my research on which rom I want to use.
There are just too many out there for a person to wade through to find the base set of features they want. I run a small business, and use my phone daily in it. I don't have them time to read about every single rom. I will read about a few though. And it would help to narrow down which ones I look at if I know what features they focus on.
Once the wiki table was set up it would require very little to enter basic data and to keep it loosely updated. As I said, I am just looking for a basic idea of the direction each chef takes their rom.

Seriously? Nobody else thinks this is a good idea? Everyone likes searching through dozens of topics, and wading through Hundreds of pages of replies to find basic data about a rom, and some user feedback? And does everyone here prefer to flash every rom under the sun to find the right one for them?
Don't get me wrong, in my spare time I am a gadget/tech lover. I love to tinker... again- if I have the time.
But there really does have to be a better way to narrowing down the list of potential roms one might want to try. I don't mind trying a few.....but not all.
Any body else with me on this? Or do I stand(type) alone?
Thanks

Yep I support this as well (That said it's fun to go through all these pages ehehe)

I totally agree with you. I am very surprised that this does not exist yet. Our great cookers are putting a lot of efforts into their ROM, but it's no use if we cannot find those.
The point would not be to rate the ROMs because everybody is not looking for the same kind of software. Brief informations like the WM build, the Sense version (if installed), the language and a small description field would be very nice already.

Thanks Alcibiade!
Later

Its a good idea. But anyone can update WIKI! So why not take the initiative?

ai6908:
I will look into it, didn't know that just anybody could edit/create wiki pages... I don't have a whole lot of time... so it might be a while.
Hopefully if I do this the cooks will participate.
Thanx

cameraddict said:
Seriously? Nobody else thinks this is a good idea? Everyone likes searching through dozens of topics, and wading through Hundreds of pages of replies to find basic data about a rom, and some user feedback? And does everyone here prefer to flash every rom under the sun to find the right one for them?
Don't get me wrong, in my spare time I am a gadget/tech lover. I love to tinker... again- if I have the time.
But there really does have to be a better way to narrowing down the list of potential roms one might want to try. I don't mind trying a few.....but not all.
Any body else with me on this? Or do I stand(type) alone?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are worried about how much of YOUR TIME that YOU SPEND trying to find the right rom have you ever thought about how much time we chefs spend creating these roms? i can promise that flashing a few roms and reading through some threads is nothing in comparison to cooking a good rom. im speaking for myself here, but i think its pretty sad that you ask us to do MORE than we already do....its not like this is our job and we are on your payroll. make a wiki page if you want, but i will never participate.

and end of discussion...lol