Yes I have searched before you ask.....
I have installed the stock official Radio ROM (1.65.16.25) as well as the later1.65.24.36 version and now the 1.71.09.01 version that has recently been posted, all of which seem to be very similar for GSM performance.
Now I am not convinced any of them actually do anything to the GPS receiver. I have had really quick GPS fixes with all of the Radios installed and I have also had really slow fixes. There doesn't seem to be any real consistency so I am not convinced upgrading the Radio ROM does anything with the GPS, I am sure it does with GSM, GPRS, 3G & HSDPA.
Does anyone have any technical knowledge as to what actually gets upgraded with the Radio ROM and which systems does it affect (i.e. Bluetooth, GPS etc)? Not just observations and perception?
Andy
I can't guarantee whether viper is right or not, but I've read all 10 of his posts and he seems to know his stuff.
Here is his take on this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2412197&postcount=39
However,
I have seem many people claim great GPS performance with new radios, especially the NIKI ones.
I don't use GPS that often to make my own guess.
Thanks
Dave
DaveShaw said:
I can't guarantee whether viper is right or not, but I've read all 10 of his posts and he seems to know his stuff.
Here is his take on this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2412197&postcount=39
However,
I have seem many people claim great GPS performance with new radios, especially the NIKI ones.
I don't use GPS that often to make my own guess.
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its funny but... I can say the same thing:
For me - technicaly radio shouldn't affect camera but it does thats the trick.
DaveShaw said:
I can't guarantee whether viper is right or not, but I've read all 10 of his posts and he seems to know his stuff.
Here is his take on this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2412197&postcount=39
However,
I have seem many people claim great GPS performance with new radios, especially the NIKI ones.
I don't use GPS that often to make my own guess.
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cheers Dave I hadn't seen that post by viper. To be honest that was the conclusion I was coming to. I am pretty sure the differences in GPS fix times is just peoples perception and atmospheric conditions at the time.
Andy
DaveShaw said:
I can't guarantee whether viper is right or not, but I've read all 10 of his posts and he seems to know his stuff.
Here is his take on this: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2412197&postcount=39
However,
I have seem many people claim great GPS performance with new radios, especially the NIKI ones.
I don't use GPS that often to make my own guess.
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
After trying multiple radios I can say that radio definitely DOES somehow affect the GPS. How can be the different results from different radios explained then? How can I get the GPS fix with one radio in ~5 minutes and with another in ~15 seconds?
Strangely I have two Kaisers, at the moment both have identical everything and side by side the GPS fixes can vary greatly and it's not like one is always quicker than the other.
With regards to the camera being affected by the GPS? Again I think this is down to peoples warped perception.....
Andy
ADB100 said:
Strangely I have two Kaisers, at the moment both have identical everything and side by side the GPS fixes can vary greatly and it's not like one is always quicker than the other.
With regards to the camera being affected by the GPS? Again I think this is down to peoples warped perception.....
Andy
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Back in the early kaiser days, if you had the wrong radio you had no sound and camera problems. (See the title of this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=349375)
Thanks
Dave
DaveShaw said:
Back in the early kaiser days, if you had the wrong radio you had no sound and camera problems. (See the title of this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=349375)
Thanks
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes Dave, I have previously read that thread, however I think the move from WM6 to WM6.1 required more fundamental changes - maybe memory locations affecting why the Radio ROM had to be a certain revision or later.
What got me onto this was all the replies about GPS (& camera) performance increases due to a new Radio ROM. With my experience I have simply not seen the monumental (as reported by some people) performance improvements (fix times) when I upgraded the Radio ROM
As I said I have two Kaisers side by side here, both with identical everything and the GPS fix times varies considerably between the two.
Andy
Interesting question - I was one of those who noticed real problems with my GPS after the original HTC update to 6.1, and had really poor performance for weeks. I then upgraded my radio to the new version HTC released as part of a revised version of the same ROM update (going from 1.65.16.25 to 1.65.17.56) and immediately noticed a definite improvement.
My GPS still isn't perfect, sometimes it takes a minute or so longer than I'd like to get a fix, but I can say that in the exact same situations, and over a few weeks testing with both versions, installing the newer radio definitely improved matters for me and achieved consistently better results. Of course there could be various other explanations, like the actual process of flashing a new radio somehow resetting/improving some unknown factor, but either way there's no doubt in my mind that the GPS is now more robust and reliable than it was previously, and the radio update really is the only variable in my case.
I know many may suspect some placebo effect, but for the record I did try a whole range of other supposed "cures" like running GPS Test, changing TomTom settings, hard resetting, flashing a different SPL etc etc, without imagining any improvement afterwards.
Sadly True
I have been flashing daily for 3 weeks now, sometimes multiple times daily, while on vacation to get the most reliable GPS signal for driving and I cannot upgrade to 6.1 roms because of the greatly slower fix times. I have tried ALL the newer radios, SPL's, fixes and tweaks, and the 1.27.XX radios still get the quickest fix and have the strongest reception. I have tried daily resets and gps cold fixes quite often to get an average time and heres my results. Newer 6.1 radios cold fix (first fix after hard-reset) around 3-5 minutes and older 6.0 radios cold fix around 2-3 minutes. Yes there were some short times and some longer times but that is the average of testing daily after flashing repeatedly. The difference is most noticeable when I use GPS Tool because it shows more details on the strength of the signal. The older 1.27.XX radio just seem to see more satellites right off the bat and the newer radios take 60-90 seconds before even seeing a single satellite. I am glad people are finally recognizing this as an important issue because I upgraded to this phone primarily for the internal GPS. Now that the kaiser driver problem is winding down maybe some great minds can work on this problem also.
To right radios affect GPS performance
myteematt said:
I cannot upgrade to 6.1 roms because of the greatly slower fix times. I have tried ALL the newer radios, SPL's, fixes and tweaks, and the 1.27.XX radios still get the quickest fix and have the strongest reception.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's true in this case about the oldies being goodies - I agree the GPS with WM 6.0 and those 1.27 series radios was ahem... miles better.
Why do I suspect that the 1.27 series Radios for WM 6.0 were provided to HTC by Qualcomm but they had to actually come up with their own for WM 6.1 - I may be wrong, it's just a hunch.
Now that the kaiser driver problem is winding down maybe some great minds can work on this problem also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The interesting thing is that (I remember reading somewhere) aspects of GFX Acceleration can/could be coded into these MSM 7200 Radios so with both that and a once and for all GPS cure, the opportunities are immense for someone who knows what they're doing with Radio programming and development. Thats one reason why I was glad to see viperbjk has appeared here. There's no doubt about it as far as I can tell that Radios affect GPS performance and the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
This is guess work, without that much understanding as to the way the device performs GPS operations (or any other low level machine operations), so feel free to shoot me down...
Could the Radio "operate" at different speeds, i.e. the 1.27 radios process instructions/operations much faster than the latest 6.1 ones?
Could parts of the radio be indirectly used when performing a GPS fix?
If so this would mean operations performed during GPS by the radio, slow down actual GPS operations?
Just an idea
Dave
We might be veering slightly out of focus here - because of course, if you compare 6.0 ROMs (and radios) with 6.1 ROMs (and radios) then there's a huge number of not necessarily radio-related factors that come into the mix, not least 6.1 itself, and HTC's implementation of it.
Notwithstanding the fact that it's impossible to use 1.27 radios with 6.1 and vice versa, it could easily be argued that a 1.27 radio would not improve GPS performance on a 6.1 ROM, and that a 1.65 radio would provide excellent GPS on a 6.0 ROM - it simply can't be proved either way.
What can be said, is that when I changed the radio - and only the radio - on the same 6.1 ROM, I found the GPS performance had improved. Not so much that it equalled 6.0 performance, but a significant improvement in any case, and enough to prove to me that (in answer to the topic) the radio ROM definitely does affect the GPS.
GPS Speed
Not sure if radio effect gps but I loaded the D3D driver and these did slow gps lock down by a lot, removed driver and gps lock went back to being instant.
Hope this help.
A no other variable example
Boinng said:
We might be veering slightly out of focus here - because of course, if you compare 6.0 ROMs (and radios) with 6.1 ROMs (and radios) then there's a huge number of not necessarily radio-related factors that come into the mix, not least 6.1 itself, and HTC's implementation of it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes you are right that this example isn't a very strong case because there are lots of other variables. Just like you though I made that Radio only upgrade from HTCs initial WM 6.1 release to their latest one with only a different radio and noticed the difference straight away. For those who doubt the effect of the Radio on GPS performance, If everything else is the same (and the ROM itself is the same) what else could explain the difference in performance under the same sorts of daily use in similar weather and locations? It's crystal clear to me.
Well, for me, it isn't crystal clear
First of all, I do not know much about HTC so far, I just learned to understand what's going on. But regarding the radio, there is no difference in what I've seen so far.
Ok .... some technical explanations :
1. Radio CAN affect GPS reception as far as AGPS is involved.
2. Radio does NOT affect the way GPS is recieved.
Why ?
AGPS (MSM Chipset) can be used for getting
a) position fixes via mobile towers
b) recieve GPS fixation database via GPRS/EDGE etc.
This can speed up first GPS reception lock a lot.
But the radio does not affect the reception of the GPS reciever (chipset by infineon or surf I suppose).
GPS is normally controlled by WM driver. It could be controlled by AMSS (radio) but that is VERY unlikely because changes always have to be resigned (takes a lot of time) and gps-drivers would have to be reprogrammed for MSM chipset (very unlikely).
It will take a deeper research to be sure.
Comparing the same condition parameters isn't precise enough.
To be sure that radio driver affects GPS reception, you would have to disable radio by itself, especially AGPS.
Conclusion :
Radio can speed up updating fixation database using AGPS.
Radio can also offer faster positioning than GPS using AGPS, although not as accurate.
But as long as a surf/infineon gps chipset is used, there is no way radio speeds up or influences GPS reception in any way
Hope this answers some questions.
Cya,
Viper BJK
It's a Qualcomm chip that drives the GPS. And who knows what a Radio does, what underlying functionality it facilitates. At this piont, I take it you were just guessing, viper?
Good guesses as anyone I guess, just wanted to correct you on the GPS. I wish it were a SirfStar III chip.
viperbjk said:
But as long as a surf/infineon gps chipset is used, there is no way radio speeds up or influences GPS reception in any way
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't. The GPS baseband processing takes place in the main Qualcomm chip as shown by their product sheet. So to me it seems logical that the low level GPS processing code would be part of the radio firmware, therefore explaining the performance changes as they mess up with the code and possibly change their algorithms or simply the priority of the tasks the radio chip has to execute. Might be a power consumption issue too, as at least under the WM6 radios the current draw from the GPS is really significant, much higher than a usual dedicated (SiRF, MTK,...) chipset. Maybe they changed the SW under 6.1 to draw less power, leading to lower performance...
Also, as AGPS often messes up things (many people not being able to use the GPS anymore with it on), I'm pretty sure that all the users who reported different performance had it off anyway.
It could be controlled by AMSS (radio) but that is VERY unlikely because changes always have to be resigned (takes a lot of time) and gps-drivers would have to be reprogrammed for MSM chipset (very unlikely).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To me the GPS code is as said in the radio firmware, and the actual HW drivers (given by Qualcomm) are compiled in it as well. Then, the GPS is presented to WM as a simple COM port i.e transparently so no particular driver is needed for WM itself. So the only part that would change when a change of behavior is required would be.. the radio firmware, confirming users' experiences.
Personally I still run WM6, and always get between 15 and 30sec fix times.
Small update :
For best evaluation of Sirf chipsets, I recommend
http://w5.nuinternet.com/s660100031/SirfTech.htm
I'll see if I can find anything similiar for Infineon chipsets.
Learning curve
viperbjk said:
Well, for me, it isn't crystal clear
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, other programming aspects about this aren't clear to me, just the fact that the Radio includes driver code for the GPS and has a direct effect on GPS performance. As already mentioned by others the GPS hardware is within the Qualcomm chipset and is not provided by separate hardware.
First of all, I do not know much about HTC so far, I just learned to understand what's going on. But regarding the radio, there is no difference in what I've seen so far.
Ok .... some technical explanations :
1. Radio CAN affect GPS reception as far as AGPS is involved.
2. Radio does NOT affect the way GPS is recieved.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I've never used AGPS (the native HTC ROMS without additional tweaking software have this turned off by default), I have no experience to report in this regard. I'm unsure what 2. actually means. I'm sure the statement "Radio does NOT affect GPS reception" would be incorrect though as in my experience radio changes alone can make big differences to how Tomtom and Google Maps behave. If the radio has different priorities or reduces the current/power available for GPS reception then it seems clear to me that this will alter the strength of GPS reception although maybe not the 'way it's received'. I see reducing the current available for the GPS hardware as a bit like reducing the diameter of a cars fuel line - it may end up being counterproductive. As long as the programming code results in efficient execution of GPS functioning, I'm happy for it to get all the power it needs. It's only if power is used to compensate for inefficient execution of GPS functioning that I'd have reservations about power consumption.
Why ?
AGPS (MSM Chipset) can be used for getting
a) position fixes via mobile towers
b) recieve GPS fixation database via GPRS/EDGE etc.
This can speed up first GPS reception lock a lot.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First GPS lock times were fine with my TyTN II in its original form and that didn't use AGPS. I'd be quite happy just to restore that level of performance again without relying on AGPS at all. I have started my TyTN IIs GPS up in some far flung locations where there was no phone reception at all and under WM 6.0, even then I had cold lock times of about 25 seconds as long as there was a clear view of the sky.
But the radio does not affect the reception of the GPS reciever (chipset by infineon or surf I suppose).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe not when the GPS reception is dealt with by separate hardware but the TyTN IIs GPS is integrated into its MSM 720x chipset. Regarding your latest post, I doubt GPS functionality is part of the ATI Imageon type functionality in the MSM720x chipset, it'll be separate areas of the silicon that handle this (I presume thats what you're referring to with reference to infineon).
I look forward to what you may accomplish viperbjk when you become familiar with this hardware. The opportunities for someone who understands these chipsets and associated radio programming inside and out are huge.
Related
I believe Kaiser rely on the Qualcomm chip for GPS. How is the performance. People say good thing about the SIRF III chip. How is the Kaiser GPS compare to the SIRF III? Anyone know?
welll in most cases built in gps arnt as reliable as the actuall thing... they are off sometimes
I guess it may depend on what you want/need to do with GPS.
If I turn it on and run Google Maps, it shows me right in the middle of my house, and that's where I am. If I move from one end of my house to another, I again appear in the right place.
To use GPS do we require to have gprs or 3g data activated.
Or is like integrated FM Radion which doesnt require data connection.
No -- there is a GPS receiver built into the unit that sends NMEA 0183 data over a serial port. You'll probably need map software; any software that works with WM6 and a Bluetooth GPS should do the job (e.g. TomTom 6).
I use Googlemaps and TOMTOM 6 with no problem.
I need to mention that I am a current HTC Trinity owner, and if IF if IF if IF the Kaiser has the same A-GPS chip found in the trinity, then this is what we should expect (from my experience with the Trinity)
1- Initial fix time can take long (sometimes it takes 2 minutes, sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 10 minutes, and sometimes IT NEVER gets a fix and no GPS singal can be found)
2- Once the GPS get a fix, then it works perfectly and flawlessly.
So I only hope that the Kaiser will solve the initial fix problem.
Has it now "normal" GPS or the mobile Version AGPS
I guess you could upgrade your radio to 1.40+ and try again. They said there's a big improvement to GPS fix.
Talking about TTFF, if you are moving, or inside a building, I think it will take longer than usual to get a fix. I live in a really urban area, but once I stand still in an open area, I usually got fix in 2-3 minutes, without exception.
Someone did a test in the Trinity forum - the accuracy of the qualcomm chip is even better than that of the sirf-iii.
However, a major problem though is the lack of a software assisted gps problem that can improve the ttff time. (Though qualcomm said there's one, but until now it's still vapourware.)
ww2250 said:
I guess you could upgrade your radio to 1.40+ and try again. They said there's a big improvement to GPS fix.
Talking about TTFF, if you are moving, or inside a building, I think it will take longer than usual to get a fix. I live in a really urban area, but once I stand still in an open area, I usually got fix in 2-3 minutes, without exception.
Someone did a test in the Trinity forum - the accuracy of the qualcomm chip is even better than that of the sirf-iii.
However, a major problem though is the lack of a software assisted gps problem that can improve the ttff time. (Though qualcomm said there's one, but until now it's still vapourware.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also have the Trinity and can back up the above comments. I have a Sirf III device as well and apart from the Time To First Fix being quicker there is no noticeable difference between the two - both very accurate and don't lose their fixes.
TheEngineer0815 said:
Has it now "normal" GPS or the mobile Version AGPS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You might find this interesting: http://mobilitysite.com/2007/08/assisted-gps/
Gordon
GordonTGopher said:
You might find this interesting: http://mobilitysite.com/2007/08/assisted-gps/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really interesting. The author of this article think that the Kaiser will have a Sirf-III. Now I think for the first time, we got a device with 2 GPS, a dedicated Sirf-III GPS chip together with a Qualcom integrated GPS.
I would imagine it will greatly increase the accuracy as well as the TTFF
Oh, wait, HTC might disable the Qualcom GPS, and just use the Sirf-III. See what they did to Hermes
Does anyone know how to start the gPS on the Kaiser - I bought one ...but don`t know how to start !
I have flashed my unlocked Vodafone 750v used on AT&T in US several times to
1.15-VFE
firmware 1.52.3.00
How do I flash to a more stable radio ROM?
I have such bad reception after about 3 months of an otherwise initially very stable ROM, that the phone part is barely usable now. My present ROM otherwise stable with no need for resets, but I have noticed the phoen reception gets worse with time, has anyone else noticed?
I am almost ready to give up on the Treo 750 if I can find a comparable device with threaded SMS & HSDPA
Read post 3 of http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368131
and http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_ExtractedRadioRoms
Changing your radio will NOT fix broken SIM cards, WiFi problems, Bluetooth issues or external GPS problems, Nor will it magic up a signal from nowhere if you live in a poor coverage area It may however resolve some network connectivity issues or help improve data speeds.
Having the latest release does NOT necessarily mean it is the best ROM for your network or country. In extreme cases a later radio may introduce more issues than it fixes so treat all upgrades with caution.
It is (in extreme cases) possible for the radio firmware to kill actual radio hardware if something is badly wrong or a radio firmware is buggy. This is rarely seen but is potentially a real risk.
Any update that drives the hardware "harder" in order to increase the gain of both the transmit element and recieve pre-amp element in any radio module is usually at the expense of the lifespan of the radio device. To put it simply, high output devices tend to have shorter lives than low output devices.
Problems with the device emitting more heat than usual, shorter battery life, long drop out periods where the device looks for a network or other "odd" intermittent radio issues can be a warning that something may not be right.
Recently the battery consumption of popular radio stack versions have been tested and compared. See this thread for more details.
Finally - always experiment cautiously, be aware of the risks and minimise them and read other peoples experiences on the forums before just taking the latest image and flashing it (i.e cross reference posts, see where posters are reporting from and take some proper time to do some research BEFORE considering flashing a new image - this way you are less likely to encounter problems and should have a good idea of how an upgrade will perform before exposing your device to any risk).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fatality88 said:
Read post 3 of http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=368131
and http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Hermes_ExtractedRadioRoms
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks fatality, that looks like a Hermes radio ROM, does it work on the Treo 750?
10 charcaters
Yeah, Use the KaiserCustomRUU utility - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=334890
Place one of the Hermes roms (.nbh) files in the same folder and execute and follow instructions
Hermes and Treo use the same chipset and the Hermes ones I have tried (3 or 4 of the latest) have worked fine
You will need to hardSPL your device though - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=334100
Some roms will work differently and you should be able to find one suitable for your carrier/data/battery needs...
ps. i of course hold nothing resonsible but i have got into no trouble myself...
Hi, I'm a new member, but more of a lurker. I originally planned to buy a Hermes but after reading about all the hardware problems I decided to go for the Kaiser. My question is, are there any major problems with the Kaiser? I know of the ImageON driver issues, are there any other hardware or software issues?
I don't think there's any fundamental problem with the hardware. The 3 Mp camera is not great, but what do you expect of a camera on a phone?
There a lot of ROMs, official and cooked, you can choose one that suits you.
Mine works pretty well with the original WM 6.0 ROM or the HTC official 3.02 one. With more recent ROMs or radio firmware I have problems with GPS fix times and access to WiFi routers.
Thanks for the fast reply!
I'm sorry to ask this in the Kaiser forum, but would going for the Hermes be worse than the Kaiser? They're essentially the same, except that I've read of a lot of h/w problems on the Hermes.
Hermes is awful next to the Kaiser. I still have mine here, had to use it while my Kaiser was being repaired a few months ago and it was just a PITA. Slow as hell, deeply embossed and lower quality screen,... But I can't talk of hardware problems with it.
If you get a 2nd hand Kaiser, the important points you need to check is that 3G is working (early units had faulty 3G hardware that would fail after some time, but most should have been warranty-fixed by now), and that the USB port is not broken as some tend to break it by shoving the stylus in it instead of the storage place.
I guess I know which phone I'm going for thanks!
One more question! sorry lol, I know the Kaiser has A-GPS, do you have to pay for it? If I put TomTom on my Kaiser will I have to pay for using the assisted GPS?
Also, is CorePlayer working fine on the Kaiser, mainly with xvid/avi files?
A-GPS aka QuickGPS will want to download a small file off the internet at least once a week, be it through Wifi, Activesync or whatever else is available to get satellite data and allow for shorter times to first fix, that's all. And if you don't want to use it you're not forced to, it will just take a little longer to get a fix.
So nothing to pay, except if you decide to download that little file over GPRS where your data fees would apply.
Coreplayer works fine, I personally reencode my videos in 320x240 divx for viewing with it. Never really tried anything else for video.
Alright, thanks amigo!
kilrah said:
A-GPS aka QuickGPS will want to download a small file off the internet at least once a week, be it through Wifi, Activesync or whatever else is available to get satellite data and allow for shorter times to first fix, that's all. And if you don't want to use it you're not forced to, it will just take a little longer to get a fix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AGPS is not the same thing as QuickGPS (though it took me ages to realise).
Quick GPS is what you describe and is generally considered to be worthwhile.
AGPS is similar, but it downloads more specific information which (I believe) is based on which phone masts you're near - and therefore should be even better for getting a good fix. The problems are A - It will cost money if you have to pay for your internet connection and B - apparently (though I've never used it) it will sometimes update the data while you're actually using GPS and as a result lose your fix while you're driving somewhere. A lot of people don't like AGPS at all.
dancj said:
AGPS is not the same thing as QuickGPS (though it took me ages to realise).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well.. it is in some way. The problem is that AGPS can be implemented in different ways up to different extents...
The first thing is what is mentioned above - downloading ephemeris data from the net instead of getting it directly from the satellites, which would require continuous link with each satellite for about 1 minute. First fix time is thus shortened as the data for 1 week is stored locally. This is what QuickGPS and SeaSGEE do.
The usual "Disable AGPS" in KaiserTweak / Advanced Config is a second thing. It switches to a different position calculation algorithm that is supposed to work better in low signal conditions, by extrapolating the movement at the time signal is lost and trying to guesstimate how it could evolve everytime some signal is received. But many people don't like that as it's only giving decent results in certain conditions like driving, and when walking, geocaching etc it does nothing more than giving wrong info.
What you mention by using cell towers and an internet database is also something that can be done under the AGPS naming, but AFAIK it's not implemented on the Kaiser.
It sounds like you know more about it than I do so I'll bow to your greater knowledge
Hello there,
I bought a week ago a second hand kaiser, and i noticed that it already had the hyper dragon IV lite rom flashed, so i told myself, all the hard work is done, go try some custom roms.
And I did, there was some lite ones, some plenty of softwares, some 6.5, but the thing i want from this phone is: THE GPS and the MP3 player, thos are the most important things for me, since i am all the time moving here and there, i really need them.
So, in order to be a more independant guy, i searched, and i searched again, i found some useful threads that made my gps work (because it almost wasn't working i bought it), and some others that made GPSTest display high bars on gps detecting but no fix at all (it also screwed my signal, and fu**** up my camera, and that's bad), all that by changing radio roms and trying.
And well i am very tired of trying again and again, feel just like if i was stuck in the middle of nowhere.
So, my questions:
Does the gps really work better on 6.0wm than the 6.1 and 6.5?
Does the gps really work better on stock roms than cooked ones?
Does the quickgps software really improve the speed to get a FIX?
How long are the bars your devices display when you activate your GPSTest soft? (i'm having a quarter max, and when i say a quarter, it is really the down limit of the quarter, it rarely go upper)
I have a tomtom 7.450 soft, and this thing is all the time saying bad gps reception (sometimes it even end up screaming no gps harware), is it normal?
So what software do you use for navigation?
I really don't care about cooked roms optimisations, fast and everything and all that, i want to be able to answer and emit calls, receive and send SMS, write some notes from time to time, and make GPS working great, wanna have a super fast fix.
I'm living at Brussel in belgium, living in the 5th floor, and testing my gps close to window, or i go to a parc 10 minutes away from home.
I am ready to try almost everything that can guis ALL of US to have a better GPS!
This works for me.
neolander said:
but the thing i want from this phone is: THE GPS and the MP3 player, thos are the most important things for me, since i am all the time moving here and there, i really need them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can relate to that as they are both near the top of my priority list too.
<long tales of perserverance snipped>
So, my questions:
Does the gps really work better on 6.0wm than the 6.1 and 6.5?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In my experience solely with Official HTC ROMs (which don't include WM 6.5 of course) yes - and by a longggg shot.
Does the gps really work better on stock roms than cooked ones?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've heard it does but they'd have to do pretty well to surpass the GPS performance and simplicity I'm getting from my current setup.
Does the quickgps software really improve the speed to get a FIX?
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As I charge my TyTN II by putting it to bed in its cradle every night (which is connected via USB to my PC on the internet), it automatically updates its QuickGPS data so it's hardly ever more than a day old any way. Often times during a day while I've got an active data connection I'll also manually initiate a QuickGPS download. Interestingly, the HTC Official WM 6.1 'update' for my TyTN II broke this feature and QuickGPS wouldn't automatically update when plugged into its cradle - even manual updates didn't make a difference though as far as WM 6.1 was concerned.
How long are the bars your devices display when you activate your GPSTest soft? (i'm having a quarter max, and when i say a quarter, it is really the down limit of the quarter, it rarely go upper)
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I don't (need to) use that software as GPS performs fine without it on my setup.
I have a tomtom 7.450 soft, and this thing is all the time saying bad gps reception (sometimes it even end up screaming no gps harware), is it normal?
So what software do you use for navigation?
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I have version 6.032 which came with my HTC Branded TyTN II on an accompanying CDROM. It's still avail for purchase although for some crazy reason TomTom wont sell version 7 or even an upgrade to it so there's no official way to buy it except for on the devices it comes with. If you get hold of version 6 from TomTom on a device kitted out as per mine, it will work and work well - unless you have lead lined walls and heat reflective film on your windows in which case you'll only get good performance outside.
I really don't care about cooked roms optimisations, fast and everything and all that, i want to be able to answer and emit calls, receive and send SMS, write some notes from time to time, and make GPS working great, wanna have a super fast fix.
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Similar priorities to me, the only true speed/performance related area I find important is GPS, reliability is the next preference and thats where the Radio version I'm using comes into things. I found that although 1.27.12.11 gave quick GPS fixes, sometimes when Pocket Media Player was playing a music or video file, it'd stall its playback while waiting for TomTom to get a fix. Radio version 1.27.12.32 fixes this and also gives quick GPS fixes. I have tried even newer radios (2 versions of 1.27.15.32) but alas as is with the case of many of the newer offerings, that was a step backwards in terms of GPS performance (at least here in the UK (/Europe?).
There is a section in the xda-dev wiki all about improving GPS performance if you haven't already found it.
I had tomtom 7 and the gps fix in that software was horrible for me. Even when google maps and gpstest had a good fix, tomtom would say "bad signal" or "no signal. I switched to igo which locks in after a minute and works perfectly. The other problem that could be affecting you might be the radio version. I had one radio that would make my GPS useless; it would never connect. Try changing your radios and see if that helps.
Flying Kiwi said:
In my experience solely with Official HTC ROMs (which don't include WM 6.5 of course) yes - and by a longggg shot.
I've heard it does but they'd have to do pretty well to surpass the GPS performance and simplicity I'm getting from my current setup.
As I charge my TyTN II by putting it to bed in its cradle every night (which is connected via USB to my PC on the internet), it automatically updates its QuickGPS data so it's hardly ever more than a day old any way. Often times during a day while I've got an active data connection I'll also manually initiate a QuickGPS download. Interestingly, the HTC Official WM 6.1 'update' for my TyTN II broke this feature and QuickGPS wouldn't automatically update when plugged into its cradle - even manual updates didn't make a difference though as far as WM 6.1 was concerned.
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Okay, i'll try to find a stock 6.0 rom and give it a shot, do i have to flash a stock radio rom (even if don't understand how we could modify radio roms...)
Flying Kiwi said:
I have version 6.032 which came with my HTC Branded TyTN II on an accompanying CDROM. It's still avail for purchase although for some crazy reason TomTom wont sell version 7 or even an upgrade to it so there's no official way to buy it except for on the devices it comes with. If you get hold of version 6 from TomTom on a device kitted out as per mine, it will work and work well - unless you have lead lined walls and heat reflective film on your windows in which case you'll only get good performance outside.
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Well, seems that the guy who sold it to me cracked it, i'll give him a call, and may be switch to Igo or an old version of tomtom
I dont have any film on my windows
Flying Kiwi said:
Similar priorities to me, the only true speed/performance related area I find important is GPS, reliability is the next preference and thats where the Radio version I'm using comes into things. I found that although 1.27.12.11 gave quick GPS fixes, sometimes when Pocket Media Player was playing a music or video file, it'd stall its playback while waiting for TomTom to get a fix. Radio version 1.27.12.32 fixes this and also gives quick GPS fixes. I have tried even newer radios (2 versions of 1.27.15.32) but alas as is with the case of many of the newer offerings, that was a step backwards in terms of GPS performance (at least here in the UK (/Europe?).
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Just tried this two, and i have no sound on the phone while calling, and no camera (screen remain black)
Flying Kiwi said:
There is a section in the xda-dev wiki all about improving GPS performance if you haven't already found it.
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Euh, which one? I seen so many articles and articles that i'm not sure if i seen it
Edit: are ou talking about this one? :http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=373107
tilt8925kaiser said:
I had tomtom 7 and the gps fix in that software was horrible for me. Even when google maps and gpstest had a good fix, tomtom would say "bad signal" or "no signal. I switched to igo which locks in after a minute and works perfectly. The other problem that could be affecting you might be the radio version. I had one radio that would make my GPS useless; it would never connect. Try changing your radios and see if that helps.
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I tried so much radios, i don't know what to try again ? I even tried some of the polaris radios ...
And like a i said i'll give Igo a shot too
Thank you for your interest, thanks for answering me
Edit:
Just flashed back to ROM Version: 1.56.405.5
Radio: 1.27.12.32
But gpstest cannot find the gps, and it stucks on com5 while scanning
And when i close GPSTest i cant launch it again
More than enough to go on
neolander said:
Okay, i'll try to find a stock 6.0 rom and give it a shot, do i have to flash a stock radio rom (even if don't understand how we could modify radio roms...)
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I don't understand what you're getting at. The precise setup in my signature works really well for GPS. If you flash all those components and aren't to far away from the UK, I imagine it'll work well for you - there's no harm in trying.
Well, seems that the guy who sold it to me cracked it, i'll give him a call, and may be switch to Igo or an old version of tomtom
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The map for my 'old' version of TomTom was on special offer (Western Europe 6.75) so you may well pick up a bargain.
I dont have any film on my windows
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I was just kidding about lead lined walls and metalised film covered windows (although many new cars these days have metalised windscreens, so if it doesn't work in your car that may be why).
Just tried this two, and i have no sound on the phone while calling, and no camera (screen remain black)
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Thats because you've not read the relevant ROM Flashing wiki's and stickies enough to know that you must use a WM 6.0 Radio with a WM 6.0 ROM. I suggest you spend more time revising things in this area as it WILL be time well spent and you'll learn more about your device.
Euh, which one? I seen so many articles and articles that i'm not sure if i seen it
Edit: are ou talking about this one? :http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=373107
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Thats one of the links in the relavant section have a look at the TomTom Section around two thirds down the Kaiser wiki
I tried so much radios, i don't know what to try again ? I even tried some of the polaris radios ...
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Well you needent. All the details of what works best (as far as stock components go) are in my sig and as Belgium isn't far from the UK, I cant see why it shouldn't work well for you also
Just flashed back to ROM Version: 1.56.405.5
Radio: 1.27.12.32
But gpstest cannot find the gps, and it stucks on com5 while scanning
And when i close GPSTest i cant launch it again
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You did read the part in the wiki about making sure you have a WM 6.0 compatible SPL version didn't you (SPL questions? section covers it well). Again, you need ALL the bits in my sig (note that I don't need or use GPStest under this WM 6.0 setup). I cant say how it'll go with other than TomTom 6 as thats all I've used apart from Google Maps which also works very well on this setup - you might want to try the free Google Maps for testing purposes if you have a data package from your network provider.
I got my current setup by flashing hardSPL 1 then the complete ROM shown in my sig (which came with 1.27.12.11 Radio originally) then upgrading the radio to 1.27.12.32, then flashing the HTC 1.93 spl (this last step shouldn't be necessary though if you think you'll be doing more flashing).
I'm using the official WM6.1 and the GPS lock is horrible. I can see it getting signal from a number of sats but it can take 10minutes to lock in sometimes. I've read some threads on the subject, and have tried Quick GPS and have aGPS off, but neither guarantees a quick lock.
I seem to recall WM6.0 was better but it was also using a different radio then as well.
Anyway, sorry nothing I can offer to help.
WM 6.1 GPS - standard stuff
dman7777 said:
I'm using the official WM6.1 and the GPS lock is horrible.
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OK - no surprises there then....
I seem to recall WM6.0 was better but it was also using a different radio then as well.
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You mean like the setup in my signature? You do realise it's possible to go back to this if you read up here on xda-dev about how to do so?
Anyway, sorry nothing I can offer to help.
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I agree, short of trying a custom WM 6.1 ROM, with no guarantee of success or installing third party apps to 'help' the GPS work properly, IMO WM 6.1 is a lost cause as far as GPS is concerned.
I had the same problems with the GPS, what I've found to work is using a program called GPSToday. there are 2 programs, one is a today plugin, and the other is a program. I use the program, and it really makes a difference for me. If you do a search in the Kaiser software forum, you will find more information about it. I use it with TomTom software, i start GPS today a min or 2 before i start tomtom and i get a fix right away.
Obie
Kaiser
HyperDragon IV Rhodium
Well Well Well
Great News from Here
I Managed to get my phone configured exactly like yours, and god! It is damnly fast, i got my first fix within seconds, its almost unbelievable !
I had it configured like that when you first advised, but i forgot to downgrade spl, i suppose that was the cause of the malfunctioning.
I really recommend to everyone who have the same priorities, to flash back to Flying Kiwi settings:
ROM Version: 1.56.405.5
ROM Date: 08/28/07
Radio: 1.27.12.32 (better than 1.27.12.11 with WMP)
Protocol: 22.45.88.07H
SPL: 1.93
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Here is the threads that can help you :
For the SPL: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=354061
For downloading the 1.56.405.5 rom: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_ROMs
For the 1.27.12.32 radio: http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=Kaiser_Radio
Man, you really were very helpful, thank you very very very much, and my kaiser is even faster with this settings.
If i can help by anyway send a pm please
This post should be made sticky for future information!
EDIT:
I have to Warn you Guys: In order to have the GPS working you have to follow this procedure:
Flash the 1.56.405.5 rom and then flash the 1.27.12.32 radio rom, and finally flash the SPL, otherwise GPS will not work, i just tested that
Did the Wm6.0 up/downgrade also resolve the precission of the GPS?
Iam now on WM6.1 WWE with radio 1.70.19.09 and hardSPL 3.56 with a realy fast GPS fix within 30 secs. no problems with that
But the problem is that I mention a little lag kind of thing when navigation with TT7 in my car. The Tomtom arrow is little bit behind with the reality it is usable though but if i connect it to an external sirfIII gps mouse it is more accurate.
So I wonder if you guys also have a slight GPS lag with WM6.0...
in Tomtom
I just noticed my Tom Tom only tracks 8 satellites anymore, and I read somewhere else that a guy thought that the number of satellites the phone tracks is a function of what radio you are running.
ie: the newer radios don't track 12 satellites anymore.
Why do I care? Well, I've found that I can't get a fix as well in low-signal areas as I used to be able to.
I'm running Radio 1.79.09.01.
Newer radios intending to reduce battery consumption
over2land said:
I just noticed my Tom Tom only tracks 8 satellites anymore, and I read somewhere else that a guy thought that the number of satellites the phone tracks is a function of what radio you are running.
ie: the newer radios don't track 12 satellites anymore.
Why do I care? Well, I've found that I can't get a fix as well in low-signal areas as I used to be able to.
I'm running Radio 1.79.09.01.
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Where'd you get that radio from, the latest I've seen are 1.70.xx.xx and the 1.71 eMO radio? It seems as if over time HTC has reduced the power supplied to the GPS circuitry with newer radios. In many locations (such as where I live) this is false economy because then the GPS has to work overtime to actually get a lock and maintain it, often with sluggish/intermittent results. I think their intention was to extend battery life but it's a bit like saying we'll introduce a fuel flow limiting valve onto a car to improve economy. It may work OK in ideal situations such as on the flat but give it a hard work scenario like a hill (or areas of the planet with lower overhead Navstar satellite density) and it just falls apart not getting enough fuel (or in this case power) to do it's work properly. I've tried 1.71 and 1.70 series radios with HTC original WWE WM 6.1 ROMs and found the GPS performance poor compared to the 1.27.12.32 version I currently use on my WM 6.0 ROM. Unfortunately this radio won't work with a WM 6.1 ROM so you have a choice to make.
My bad, that was a typo... I'm running 1.71.09.01 for a radio.
Thanks for the info. I've been thinking all along that they have been dialing back on actual talking capabilities of the radio in favor of internet/data capabilities. I remember my phone holding a call much better when I got it than it does now. That is, I drive a lot and I'm on the phone a lot, and this phone drops calls all over the place where it didn't used to.
Its come to the point that I use my MPx for important phone calls while on the road, because it doesn't drop nearly as much as the Kaiser does, and it gets better signal for longer in remote areas. Kinda sad that a 5-year old phone is a better phone than what we've got now.
Anyone have any other info on the changes in radios as it effects satellite, data, and phone reception? Obviously I started this mainly about the satellite reception, but now I'm curious.
over2land said:
My bad, that was a typo... I'm running 1.71.09.01 for a radio.
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And there I was thinking you have a secret underground radio development lab all of your own
Thanks for the info. I've been thinking all along that they have been dialing back on actual talking capabilities of the radio in favor of internet/data capabilities.
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Glad that my points have been helpful although I've gotta say my experience doesn't substantiate your claims regarding voice call reliability - it only relates to GPS performance changes. It wouldn't surprise me if they'd cut back on general radio transmission power because that seemed their intention as far as GPS was concerned. It's really not something I can comment on as voice calls/reception was acceptable for me with the WM 6.1 ROMs as well as my current WM 6.0 setup.
I wish I had my own underground radio lab! I'd crank up GPS, voice, and data, battery be damned.
I hear ya on the GPS stuff... I went searching and didn't find anyone else asking the same kind of questions though.