Database Develop

H, 3G or E

There used to be a mod that kept the phone on E always (for battery saving purposes) until data was required or being used, then it would switch to H automatically. Does that exist for the Tilt? I had it on my old 8525....
thanks

ld-runner said:
There used to be a mod that kept the phone on E always (for battery saving purposes) until data was required or being used, then it would switch to H automatically. Does that exist for the Tilt? I had it on my old 8525....
thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Perhaps I mis-understand what you mean but here goes... I am not aware of such a mod.
The handset can be operated in GSM (2G) or UMTS (3G). Potentially faster data connection speeds are available (at possibly higher battery drain) when you use the 3G mode (if available to you) - in this case when a 3G connection is available it may be possible to use the HSDPA data connection (automatically demanded by your hanset only when data is required) but that depends upon: whether you have that service available from your providers masts, whether they have enabled for you it and also whether your handset has the HSDPA setting enabled.
On the other hand only GPRS or EDGE (see wiki here) may be available when a 2G/GSM connection is available. EDGE is basically an enhanced version of GPRS but does not match HSDPA speeds.
So you are mixing the EDGE data indication "E" with the HSDPA indication of "H". The only way your handset can go from EDGE to HSDPA (or vice versa) is if your signal received changes to provide HSDPA from EDGE (perhaps as you change location).
Of course you can disable both 3G and seperatly HSDPA - then you are left with either G or E (use the comm manager and/or the various tweakers).
Beware - some ROMS are incorrectly showing the H instead of 3G when no data connection is active and this is a known problem.
Probably too much detail but may help .
Regards

tony.wheeler said:
Of course you can disable both 3G and seperatly HSDPA - then you are left with either G or E (use the comm manager and/or the various tweakers).
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He needs a program to switch between those modes automatically instead of manually though the comm manager, when he enables/disables a data connection..

VirgilWoods said:
He needs a program to switch between those modes automatically instead of manually though the comm manager, when he enables/disables a data connection..
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Click to collapse
yeah, that is right.

You know what I do. I use Kaiser Tweak or AdvancedConfig to tell it to Disconnect my 3G connection after 3 minutes. Then When a program needs Data it connects to The 3G network, than when It doesn't need it it disconnects after 3 minutes. Phone still works otherwise. And My battery lives for days.

ld-runner said:
yeah, that is right.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let's see if I get this..
You want to run the handset in 2G (GSM) mode for normal voice comms but when you want data you want to switch to 3G (UMTS) so that HSDPA can be used?
I personally haven't seen anything that can do that automatically and understand the problem is that to change from one band to another actually requires a cycle off of the actual phone. There are plenty of programs out there that cycle the phone mode - perhaps you should put this requirement to Dani who has developed a Comm Manager Pro program - his software does this cycling of modes but based upon time and place (for instance) rather than the trigger that you want which is when a data connection is required. Try looking at this http://www.commmgrpro.com/ and asking Dani who is always on this site with the Hermes forum here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=299070
Good luck .

Gotta be careful forcing the phone to Edge/HSDPA. Particularly if you force it to HSDPA.
I took a 2 hour road trip today and it took me coming back to figure out why my phone wasn't even getting a signal; it was forced to 3G. I set it to Auto in BandSwitch and it had a signal immediately.
Whoops!

speaking of road trips and HSDPA...
i took a trip today with my wife to Washington and had perfect signal the entire time.. until my battery died of course.
but HSDPA all the way..
i live in Jersey and have travelled to the NYC, the UK and Puerto Rico and have yet to get bad reception...with my old blackberry... im damn near posivtive i woulda had lag

JimmyMcGee said:
You know what I do. I use Kaiser Tweak or AdvancedConfig to tell it to Disconnect my 3G connection after 3 minutes. Then When a program needs Data it connects to The 3G network, than when It doesn't need it it disconnects after 3 minutes. Phone still works otherwise. And My battery lives for days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How come I have been to stupidd to figure this one out myself????? I was soo curious how folks were getting great batterylife....
Damn back to school I am.

JimmyMcGee said:
You know what I do. I use Kaiser Tweak or AdvancedConfig to tell it to Disconnect my 3G connection after 3 minutes. Then When a program needs Data it connects to The 3G network, than when It doesn't need it it disconnects after 3 minutes. Phone still works otherwise. And My battery lives for days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i manually control my data connection through comm manager. i always have 3g off too on comm manager. However, my battery sucks ass and it doesn't last longer than 18hrs with normal use. However, my backlight is at full blast because i can't see the screen outdoors if i don't have it set to 100%. Wish i could see the screen outside during the day and i wish the battery life lasted longer.

redbandana said:
i manually control my data connection through comm manager. i always have 3g off too on comm manager. However, my battery sucks ass and it doesn't last longer than 18hrs with normal use. However, my backlight is at full blast because i can't see the screen outdoors if i don't have it set to 100%. Wish i could see the screen outside during the day and i wish the battery life lasted longer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I usually cup my hand to act as a shade around the screen. I can see the screen well enough at the 3rd lowest setting.

JimmyMcGee said:
You know what I do. I use Kaiser Tweak or AdvancedConfig to tell it to Disconnect my 3G connection after 3 minutes. Then When a program needs Data it connects to The 3G network, than when It doesn't need it it disconnects after 3 minutes. Phone still works otherwise. And My battery lives for days.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you noticed any kind of lag in your device when using the AdvancedConfig auto disconnect feature? I "feel" that when I have this feature turned on the device lags a bit. So instead I have the long press end key mapped to terminate data connection and I end up having to hit that so many times during the day.

Hello
This is sort of on the same lines. I use the com manager built into the custom rom im using ( L26_Kaiser_Diamond_V9 ) and throttling back from a 3G/HSDPA connection to the Edge signal. Ive noticed a huge difference battery life. Before i would only get about 4-5 hours standby because I had an application running that kept the HSDPA active previously. If you use a messenger service like IM+ I strongly suggest upgrading to a rom like L26 that has the ability built right into its com manager. It more than doubled my battery life with 0 cost to messaging performance. If i have to hop onto the net or tether, its a simple button switch to re-enable 3g

Battery life?

Dear all,
With a small 900mAh battery, What is the real world usage time? I mean making up to 2 hours of calls per day does it last at least 12hours before the need to recharge battery and this is assuming that 3G is on all the time. Thanks.

French network technical support say 60 hours with GPS on !!!!
I think it's joke.

Well, I've been watching the battery life on mine for a couple of days now in a reasonably scientific way and here are the early rather speculative results:
With just GPRS and nothing else on and very light use the battery drops from 100% to 80% very fast - less than an hour of light use.
Leaving it running on these settings will run it down to about 20% by the end of the working day - the drain seems to ease off aftert he first sharp drop
Powering up wifi and music for short time doesn't seem to make much difference.
Turning 3G on also doesn't seem to make the difference you would expect either.
So basically I would feel the need to take a charger with me if I left the house for the day, which will probably mean that I have to send the thing back. I've seen the coolsmartphone video review and mine isn't performing anything like that one - I would say I am loosing charge at about twice the rate.
Now the only issues that could be at work here is that I live in a lousy reception area. But could this really make such a difference?
What I would find really useful is a list of other tweaks you can make to cut power use so I can try them out. But at the end of the day it's looking like too many compromises would be needed to make this thing practical for me.

Reception would make a reasonable difference if normal network messages are being sent/received (general scans of BCCH channels, authentication with the network) - i.e. the radio isnt being used for data/voice, and only to keep registered to the network. But during those times the rest of the phone would also be in low power mode, so i would say an absolute max of 5 to 10%.
It would make a significant difference if you are transmiting data/making calls in a low reception area. I would say easily upto 20%.
It sounds to me like if you plan to use the phone much at all during the day you need a second battery. Then that turns into the hassle of how to charge the second battery every night, and i bet the desktop stand can't charge a second battery

My conclusions exactly. Impractical to say the least.
The puzzle then is why my last phone, a Nokia E51 with a 1050 mAh battery, under the same conditions, managed to last 2-3 days?
Is WM6 really that much of a power grabber compared to S60?

moonlanding said:
My conclusions exactly. Impractical to say the least.
The puzzle then is why my last phone, a Nokia E51 with a 1050 mAh battery, under the same conditions, managed to last 2-3 days?
Is WM6 really that much of a power grabber compared to S60?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Short answer - yes.
There's all these power saving features in new app processors like being able to leave the screen on while powering down the main CPU. You can use an interupt from the radio to wake up the processor etc.
Windows doesnt support half of these features, thats why find windows phones save all their power by turning the screen off. Other phones with screens just as big are alot less regimental about turning the screen off at any opertunity.
I was involved in a project once to design a smartphone and it was a really surprising how much difference there was between the windows version they suplied and an ARM version of linux.

I have HTC Touch Crouse and i have problems with battery (GPRS always on and Bluetooth) ... now with Diamond i have VERY BIG Problem. Battery Keeps less than one day ...

The experiment continues.
Disabling "GPRS auto attach" in Advanced Configuration Tool has made a big difference - still 90% after 6 hours now.
Now this is a surprise to me because I thought that you did this when you set the network seek to GSM only and not hunt for 3G. Or maybe I'm getting my GPRSs and GSMs mixed up...
Next step - leave this setting in place and turn push back on. Watch this space.

GSM digitises your voice and slots it into a time divided channel on a frequency, and marks it as voice. On the network side, it converts this back to voice and sends it on the PSTN network (for a landline call).
GPRS takes data you want to send and inserts it directly in the same time divided channel and marks it as data. On the network side the network transfers this onto the internet (or other network) through the GGSN (its essentially a router).
So GSM and GPRS use the same technology. Setting the phone to GSM only, just stops it connecting to 3g networks.
Anyway, when you turn your phone on, the tower tells it its capabilities eg GPRS. This give you a GPRS available icon. When you actually want to send data, you need to 'attach'. This is like logging into the network.
To do that you need to open a data channel and send your login details.
Normal phones will do that i.e. attach, and then go idle. The network will only log them off if they move to a new cell and do not reauthenticate.
Anyway, if you are not attached:
- When you send data, the phone will need to attach first (milliseconds delay) - unoticable.
- You will NOT have an IP address so incoming data can not reach you.
If you use pop3 with regular pull of email, it'll make less difference the more frequently you pull your email - because every time you do, the phone will attach.
If you use PUSH email, it'll make no difference because you have to remain attached (have an ip address) for push to work.
I'm sure most people didn't care to know all that but i'm sure some did!

Wow. Thanks. Impressive.
Let me try to summarise. With auto attach off the phone isn't trying to attach to the 3G network all the time which saves power. But it is also disconnected from GPRS and data networks. However this won't affect push email because it will attach when it needs to, ie when the network tells it that there is mail or I send something out. Is this right?
What about internet? Will the phone automatically attach to the data netowrks when I fire up Opera? Presumably to attach to 3G I will need to reset to automatically seek WCDMA.

moonlanding said:
Wow. Thanks. Impressive.
Let me try to summarise. With auto attach off the phone isn't trying to attach to the 3G network all the time which saves power. But it is also disconnected from GPRS and data networks. However this won't affect push email because it will attach when it needs to, ie when the network tells it that there is mail or I send something out. Is this right?
What about internet? Will the phone automatically attach to the data netowrks when I fire up Opera? Presumably to attach to 3G I will need to reset to automatically seek WCDMA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're still a bit confused i think. Ok on a phone you have voice or data. Data covers mail, internet, weather updates etc etc, voice covers phone calls.
There are two distinct protocols here, and we need to talk about them diferently...
GSM:
With GSM calls are sent over 1 timeslot and singalled as voice.
To make a call you need to have a signal, that takes a very short few messages which are sent every 20 minutes or so, or if you move around between towers. The Radio in the phone can do this all by itself without waking the phone up.
If you want to send ANY data (emails, internet, anything) you need to use GPRS. GPRS uses the same channels but inserts data into them instead of voice. Before you can send or receive any data you need to 'login' to the network. To login you need to actually open the channel and make a connection. Logging in is called 'ataching'. When you attach you get an IP address and the network can send stuff to you and u can send stuff to the network. Attaching needs to wake up the phone.
Once attached the phone can go into a sleep mode saving power, but any data send or received will wake up the phone.
UMTS/3G
UMTS is different in that everything is sent code divided. There is no 'login' or attach as such. In this mode all your voice gets converted to data and sent across.
---
With auto attach on:
If you use 3G mode, every time you switch between a 3G and GPRS area the phone will atach (GPRS) again, this will drain power.
Every time you move out of GPRS and come back into GPRS the phone will attach, even if you have nothing to send.
With autoattach off:
The phone will only attach if it has something to send AND is on GPRS (no 3G available or 3g turned off)
The upside is that you save power when you move between cells. The downside is that you can't receive any data from the network untill you decide to attach.
For push email for example you would never end up detaching as it would hold the connection open.
Anyway i hope that clear, but i'm quite sleepy so it might not make any sense lol

That makes sense to me. When I get my Touch Diamond, I'm definitely turning 'GPRS auto attach' off, because I don't think I need it on.

someone1234 that`s really useful info.I guess autoattach off is the best option for me too. WHEN the phone arrives.

Thanks again senior1234. I'm getting there. But this is more complex that I thought so I've gone back and checked what really makes a difference to the battery life.
The big difference for me is having the phone band set to GSM only (phone, options). Disabling auto attach makes a difference but not as much as I thought. I had changed both of them at the same time, thinking that they were more or less the same thing. Sorry folks. Very unscientific.
But if you feel like trying these bear in mind that I don't move between cells very much and have awful reception. I'll leave it to others to explain whether this is important.

HTC told me that with the screen on full brightness and phone turned on the GPS would only last about 2 hours befre the battery died, looks like we'll need the extended battery or several normal ones!

moonlanding said:
Thanks again senior1234. I'm getting there. But this is more complex that I thought so I've gone back and checked what really makes a difference to the battery life.
The big difference for me is having the phone band set to GSM only (phone, options). Disabling auto attach makes a difference but not as much as I thought. I had changed both of them at the same time, thinking that they were more or less the same thing. Sorry folks. Very unscientific.
But if you feel like trying these bear in mind that I don't move between cells very much and have awful reception. I'll leave it to others to explain whether this is important.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
GSM will use alot less power, so that is whats definatly making the difference
Why? Well.. GSM uses time division, which means the phones in an area take turns 'speaks'/'listening' with the tower. This ensures that no two phones are talking at the same time, and the tower can 'hear' what was sent. Because of this the power the phone transmits with can be controlled to be just high enough for the tower to listen, but not too high as to waste battery.
The down side of this scheme is that even if a phone has nothing to 'say', the other phones will wait in case it does. This means you're wasting bandwidth - or time that could be used by another phone to send data. Bottom line, data throughput is slower!
With 3G, all phones can talk at the same time. The data they send is tagged with a code, so that the data doesnt get mixed up. The advantage here is no time is wasted waiting for phones that may have nothing to send. The down side is that you need to be 'talking' loud enough to 'talk' over other people sending. This is why the data rate over 3G drops off really rapidly as you move away from the tower.
The disadvantages are a phone far from the tower using 3G will use more power than one using GSM because its having to 'talk' louder to get over other phones 'talking'.
Also, signals that get lost because they were drowned out by other phones have to be retransmited, which doesnt happen with GSM as much.
Yeah 3G or CDMA based channel access methods are a real power hog!
As for Auto attach you would expect it to only make a real difference if you have programs holding channels open.
With regards to low reception, it will make a significant difference because power disipation is not linear. Like all radiation it follows the inverse square law. For every meter distance the power drops of by a square of the distance.

Don't forget, when comparing uptime with other phones, with the diamond you have 4x the amount of pixels. VGA (640 x 480) devices will always chew up more Battery that QVGA (320 x 240) . This is one of the main reasons that HTC and the others delayed shipping VGA devices until now.
If you want longer battery life, you are going to have to stop using the display so often.
There is no way a vga machine can compete with a qvga machine on battery life... when all other factors are equal.

I think if you discount 3G, the battery is a little too small for the phone. With 3G its wholy inadequate.
The screen does make a huge difference, but these screens are more efficient, and HTC have used every opertunity to turn the screen off - a bit excessivly if you look at how fast it turns off when you make a call.
I don't understand why they don't use the iphone method of turning it off when the light sensor shows its dark (in a call).. i.e. the earpiece is next to your head!

moonlanding said:
The experiment continues.
Disabling "GPRS auto attach" in Advanced Configuration Tool has made a big difference - still 90% after 6 hours now.
Now this is a surprise to me because I thought that you did this when you set the network seek to GSM only and not hunt for 3G. Or maybe I'm getting my GPRSs and GSMs mixed up...
Next step - leave this setting in place and turn push back on. Watch this space.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've disabled gprs auto attach and set my band to GSM. When i connect to net with opera will it still turn on 3G etc?

nokmond said:
I've disabled gprs auto attach and set my band to GSM. When i connect to net with opera will it still turn on 3G etc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good question.
i only use my phone for normal phone stuff ans sometimes for some internet browsing.
should i turn anything on or off?

just got 3G on my tilt and wanna know how to use it!

hey guys, finally switched over to at&t from tmobile, so i FINALLY have 3G! and to boot, down here in miami, we have HSDPA! so anyways, i wanted to know what are some ways you guys use it? as in streaming media, podcasts, etc.. any ideas would be great, cuz i'm brand new to the world of 800 kbs/sec internet!

Do yourself a favor and download a program called "advanced configuration tool". In the "buttons" area, put a button 5 called 3G.
Personally, I keep 3G turned off, unless I want to look up something on the web.
I get a lot better battery life out of 2G (Edge) than 3G, which eats up the battery. Only downshot is that if you are on the phone, you can't receive email
at the same time. Lots of other tweaks in the advanced configuration tool, you'll have to ask others on XDA what works best.

Hmm what to use it for? The same you'd do with EDGE but faster?
Personally I don't consider 3G as useful on the phone itself, but rather when tethering with the laptop.

New tilt, question about turning off data

I know this has been asked a million times, I just bought a used tilt from a co-worker. I do not have any data plans, and just want to use wi-fi.
I installed modaco nodata, and kaiser tweak.
In Nodata I have:
at&t isp gprs - disabled
media net - disabled
my connection - enabled
kaiser tweak:
I also have pretty much all the data options disabled.
Now I am still a little paranoid, because when I wake up my phone the 3G logo shows for a few seconds. Is this just a little bug or is 3G on? I just want to be absolutely sure I am not going to get any data charges.
Thanks!

if your talking about the AT&T 3g video at startup, then that comes standard on the phone as a bootscreen. Also when I installed NoData to my phone a while back the 3G logo was still there but I tested it and I couldnt connected to the internet. However, be warned with the Medianet disabled you won't be able to receive picture messages.

No not the animation, just the little 3G icon in the top right where it shows your connection.

Anthony C said:
I installed modaco nodata, and kaiser tweak.
Now I am still a little paranoid, I just want to be absolutely sure I am not going to get any data charges.
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have been using Modaco Nodata for over a year and it never let me down. I don't see why you should have to worry.

Thanks for the reassurance, now does your 3G Icon still show. I noticed it was on the whole time I was in my car with no wifi around.

Anthony C said:
Thanks for the reassurance, now does your 3G Icon still show. I noticed it was on the whole time I was in my car with no wifi around.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the reason you see the 3g sign is because that means 3g is available, it does NOT mean you are connected to the net. If the location supports hsdpa than you will see H.
question answered, plus redundant thread. Thread closed.

How to keep IM apps running

How can I keep applications like skype, IM+, ebuddy etc running for any length of time? Even with settings for always on and no power save, they seem to disconnect after a while, either just after a long time, or immediately after I start using the browser or other applications. And then some, like IM+, wont conenct anymore unless I force close and restart.

kkhalil76 said:
How can I keep applications like skype, IM+, ebuddy etc running for any length of time? Even with settings for always on and no power save, they seem to disconnect after a while, either just after a long time, or immediately after I start using the browser or other applications. And then some, like IM+, wont conenct anymore unless I force close and restart.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you using Edge or 3G? As far as I know, without 3G or 3.5G, you can't talk on the phone and keep the internet connection live. YMMV.

Well I have 3G switched on, but the strange thing is that when no 3G signal is available, or it's weak and drops for a bit, then the phone switches to G (gprs) rather than E (edge), or does the phone just not display E?
Having said that, it disconnects the apps regardless of whether I'm using the phone or not

kkhalil76 said:
Well I have 3G switched on, but the strange thing is that when no 3G signal is available, or it's weak and drops for a bit, then the phone switches to G (gprs) rather than E (edge), or does the phone just not display E?
Having said that, it disconnects the apps regardless of whether I'm using the phone or not
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hey there)
firstly about 3G <-> Edge/Gprs switching. literally speaking edge is a piece of hardware equipment embedded into the base station. afaik not every base station has it, so in case you see G that means that either you are served by above mentioned base station or all the channels are occupied by other subscribers which rarely happens nowadays, because carriers expand the capacity of the base stations in order to provide full range of services to their subs. in other words if 3G is not available you would see G or E, you can't manually force your handy to use Edge only, it's an improved version of GPRS so to say
as for the im apps disconnets. i personally use Meebo and it never signs me off. it doesn't matter if i use the phone or switch to other apps. it runs in the background as a service until i choose to sign off manually. give it a try. if it keeps running in the background then maybe Im+ have an option to keep connection alive in its configs. otherwise it can be a bug in the ROM you are using.
Hope it helps

Thanks, I'll give Meebo a try. I guess I found the 3G/G/E thing weird cause the last 2 phones I had did change from one to the other in sequence, so I assumed that this one was skipping a stage, especially as it is slower than my last phone when browsing.

bjai said:
Are you using Edge or 3G? As far as I know, without 3G or 3.5G, you can't talk on the phone and keep the internet connection live. YMMV.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
edge/gprs (2G/2.5G) does not allow you to transfer data and to use voice service simultaneously. because it uses the same timeslots as voice does. but it won't disconnect you.

Thanks again for the recommendation, very stable and overall much better than previous apps I've tried for msn. The only few times I was signed off it signed me back in automatically.