I've noticed a pattern lately.
1. There has been a large influx of new people that disregard the walkthroughs, wikis and don't know how to search.
2. Our older members have been getting shorter and shorter tempers when it comes to answering n00bs who ask the same questions that have been answered a million times.
So, what are we to do?
The older members need to realize that not everybody is good at using the search feature, which is why I will be writing a walkthrough here. They also need to be a bit more patient with those who genuinely seem to be lost. For those who just don't read, go ahead and flame them. Or at least just give them a link to something and make them read it themselves, that way they feel like "oh... I could've found that myself. Next time, I think I'll search."
How to search:
I understand that the search feature seems somewhat useless because when one searches for say, "how to flash", one gets 20 pages of random things.
So, here are the basics on finding what you need:
Step 1: Check the stickies. The first posts on every forum that say Sticky are posts that were stickied to the top of the forum for a reason. These tend to have all the information you need that people ask often.
Step 2: Know the organization of the forums. I know they're a little crazy. Do you check Herald or Herald upgrading or Herald mobile 6. Usually, if it's related to Window Mobile 6, stick to the Mobile 6 forum.
Step 3: Wikis: If you look at the Herald forum, you'll notice a sticky about the Herald wiki. A wiki, is just that. A wiki. You'll find ALL kinds of useful info.
Step 4: When you search:
Limit your words to ideas. "How to flash" is nice, but "Flashing" or "flash" will do fine.
Words have to be at least 4 letters for it to search for them. Thus "how" and "to" are ignored.
Search titles only first for "how to"s before searching through an entire post. Chances are someone may have already asked the question.
If someone tells you to search for a walkthrough that they wrote, use the find threads by user and find posts by user feature. They're basically telling you everything you need to know to find it.
Ok, so you found a million threads on flashing. Now you see that if you click on thread one, it's not about flashing but it has about 1,300 posts. How can you read EVERY single one of them. When you do a search, if you narrow it down to show results as threads, you'll get the posts themselves that have the words you're looking for an not a thread which mentions "flashing" somewhere in the 1158th post.
One thing, READ EVERY POST, not just the posts that are replies to you. This happens often:
OP: Is it possible to flash my phone with ZOMG teh Best ROM?
1P: What are you trying to flash?
2P: It's impossible. I'm sorry, but ZOMG teh Best ROM was made for HTC's ROFLCOPTER!!!!111 and you have a HTC Normal.
OP: Is it possible to flash my phone with ZOMG teh Best ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3P: I can try to help you. What kind of phone do you have?
3P: I can try to help you. What kind of phone do you have?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OP:Awesome thanks!
2P: It's impossible.
OP: Why isn't it working?
2P:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This doesn't really talk about the treatment of new people.. but does give a good positive solution which probably will be ignored or forgotten.
it seems quite a few of the people here tend to be jerks to newer people.
the end.
Right to the point
thankx ivanmmj. Indeed a good workthrough
I agree with you abt the newbies. And i seen proof of some circumstances too. Actually for the past 3 days, whenever i check for new post, i find one or two newbie everyday asking mostly abt HOW TO UNLOCK and WHERE TO GET THE ORIGINAL SHIPPED ROMS.
And most of them seem genuinely lost. Sometimes newbies tend to get worried or too excited to check on the search tool. I mean, it isnt everyday that you purchase a new Pocket PC, and then you find out its SIM LOCKED and so on.
And since internet is the answer, we somehow stumble upon this forum and quickly tend to ask question, rather than check on the forum features/threads. Some of us are not the same on that factor.
So its in my suggestion that we create a separate forum for these special areas of need and of Original Shipped Roms page. But anyways this is jus an idea.
And yes abt how newbies are treated, i guess it wud be a lot easier that we direct them to the correct thread with the advice of search tool, instead of blaming anyone to JUST use search tool. I mean, they are newbies, how can they jus know which term to specifically search or how credible a search result is. And a post to the right direction for a newbie, minimizes them from posting again and again and again. It really helps!!!!
yeah Im a jerk...
thx
good to know
I really dont see any point in this "walkthrough"
Dont get me wrong here, its a good idea, but a old one
NO MATTER how many guides, rules, walkthroughs w/e anyone try to make, the socalled nOOb thing will always be present.
Its been tried before, here, and in thousands of other forums
PPL wants quickfix, they dont wanna search, they want us to personally guide them or walk them through everything.
If we make a BIG flashing announcement, most ppl will never care to read. They come to get something cool and leave. They come back if there is a error or a bug and flame us, many times in pm and on msn.
I have considered remove my msn from xda, but I dont because I occationally get some nice contacts.
Since I joined xda, my pm inbox has a couple thousand pm's, half is what I consider junk...
If we are such jerks, then just stay away from our work and our threads, go to those who answer all your questions with a wagging tail.
I have spendt so many hours on this that I dont even wanna think about it, and I get accused that I do it for fame, glory, and w/e
I DONT CARE
you wanna know why I keep releasing builds here after I got my kaiser? I do it because there is some friends here that have asked if I could continue.
I could easily put my roms in private network, but I choose to share what I do, for free....
So if thats beeing a jerk, then im happy to be one. I would rather be a jerk then the opposite.
have a nice day
ayyu3m said:
thankx ivanmmj. Indeed a good workthrough
I agree with you abt the newbies. And i seen proof of some circumstances too. Actually for the past 3 days, whenever i check for new post, i find one or two newbie everyday asking mostly abt HOW TO UNLOCK and WHERE TO GET THE ORIGINAL SHIPPED ROMS.
And most of them seem genuinely lost. Sometimes newbies tend to get worried or too excited to check on the search tool. I mean, it isnt everyday that you purchase a new Pocket PC, and then you find out its SIM LOCKED and so on.
And since internet is the answer, we somehow stumble upon this forum and quickly tend to ask question, rather than check on the forum features/threads. Some of us are not the same on that factor.
So its in my suggestion that we create a separate forum for these special areas of need and of Original Shipped Roms page. But anyways this is jus an idea.
And yes abt how newbies are treated, i guess it wud be a lot easier that we direct them to the correct thread with the advice of search tool, instead of blaming anyone to JUST use search tool. I mean, they are newbies, how can they jus know which term to specifically search or how credible a search result is. And a post to the right direction for a newbie, minimizes them from posting again and again and again. It really helps!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditto.
I have noticed the flaming as well, not just in the herald forum, but in others as well. It is unfortunate and it is my hope that it'll change. I more or less just post the link or post number and move on.
I completely agree with you and totally support Ivanmmj's efforts to minimize countless and repetitive posts requesting/asking the same questions on multiple threads. I, as well as every other "senior" and experienced "junior" member were once nOObs. Regardless, Ivanmmj's efforts are applauded and I thank you.
ITJE .. realize that you are talented and post some of most unique roms here. So of course, many people here are going to consider you as a guru. You may not consider yourself as one, but others do. I don't consider you a jerk in the least, but if you truly didn't care and if you didn't feel you have abolutely nothing to contribute, you would not be here. You've made it abundantly clear "why" you're here now and I thank you for sharing that. Maybe putting your roms in/on a private network might work for you and your friends. Just a thought. You will be missed for sure.
I can truly understand your frustration, but we (senior, juniors, gurus, gurus in-training, even nOObs) truly need to remain positive and objective instead of flaming or blaming. All I want to do is be a support and encourage what you're good at and enjoy (here, lol).
Just thinking if the search could be predominate on the page -- like a huge search box in red or something ???? Then maybe people would use it.
I personally do my best to help people, and always try to steer them clear of PMing or IMing ITJE... because I know how "annoying" it can be to receive thousands of messages from people on here asking the simplest questions.
ITJE, everyone here appreciates your work, and I hate to see you get upset because of a couple of idiots who piss you off when you work so hard for us expecting nothing in return. So let me take this time to apologize on behalf of everyone here and thank you on behalf of everyone for all of your efforts.
It is most certainly true what you say that the n00b will always be present, so I think that the rest of us, need to take those situations and help them n00bs hence alleviating ITJE's responsibility from doing so. It's obvious that most people don't like to read everything and search for answers when it's always easier to ask ask ask.... but in my opinion, that's the whole basis of XDA ... to help others. So basically, what we need to do is a community effort.
All the n00bsout there, PLEASE PLEASE help us, by trying to help yourselves first. We want to help you, we will help you, but you need to do your part in helping us help you. All the information you could ever need is located in this forum.
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THE FORUM OR USE THE GOOGLE SEARCH of the site in order to search for solutions to your issues.
To the Seniors and Juniors out there, we need to try to be more patient with n00bs... going back and remembering how WE at some point were in that same position. Let's not forget the whole premise of why this site exists and continues to excel in its purpose.
To the COOKS who donate your time, effort, and expertise. Thank you. While some people, primarily because of ignorance, may not appreciate your efforts, please know that we who have been here and know your efforts, whole-heartedly appreciate you and everything you contribute. If it weren't for you, this website wouldn't exist. I know it must be terribly frustrating to have everyone criticizing, complaining and it may feel like they are pissing on your work which you donate selflessly to this site, but know that the majority of us do in fact appreciate what you do more than we express to you.
The search function on this forum is just plain terrible. Either that or I don't know how to search and will look forward to the walkthrough. But even displaying posts instead of threads does not help very much.
My two cents for those trying to search....use google instead and add "site:forum.xda-developers.com" in the search box. At least those results are easier to look through.
ITJE .. realize that you are talented and post some of most unique roms here. So of course, many people here are going to consider you as a guru. You may not consider yourself as one, but others do. I don't consider you a jerk in the least, but if you truly didn't care and if you didn't feel you have abolutely nothing to contribute, you would not be here. You've made it abundantly clear "why" you're here now and I thank you for sharing that. Maybe putting your roms in/on a private network might work for you and your friends. Just a thought. You will be missed for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that a hint, like..piss off (edit: I AM joking )
jk
I never said I would do that, I said the opposite.
I said I am a jerk cause im staying here.
I dont see what some call flaming of newbees
Its a reaction to lazyness
when sollutions is posted in the post #1 and 2, or maybe 3....written in big letters, and in a thread counting 40-50 replies, the same question is asked in about 10% or more, maybe even asked 1 or 2 pages after the answer or/and the sollution, then..well...
Maybe im not the most patient guy in the world, and I certainly have not tried to be either, but usually I try my best to provide the help I can or am able/willing to give.
And about that "Made it clear why im here thing"
Im here to share my work with all who wants it.
When I got my Kaiser/Tytn2, I decided tomove over there with my work, and sell off my herald. But I was convinced to stay and continue do some work.
And no one can say that I was not called a jerk, cause yes, I obviously do "flame" the socalled nOObs.
Most of it are sarcastic, but its also the truth.
I dont accept that my threads are spammed with 50% bull**** and the same questions over and over.
No matter what I write..Dont spam, read before you ask, use search through google/xda w/e
PPL DONT SEE IT
The jump clear cause they are lazy, they see the message, READ THIS, but they dont.
If I in.ex write like this, on top of the release:
There is a bug with MMS in this release, I am working on it.
Then there will be atleast 5-6 ppl saying MMS is not working, and telling me the rom is unstable because of this
Hell, I even had a guy typing in biggest letters available
WARNING DONT USE THIS ROM, INTERNETSHARING IS NOT WORKING (something like that)
I respect all who wants to contribute, to share what they know.
I respect those who dont know anything, but hangs around, download w/e and use w/e is posted here.
I do NOT respect ppl who comes in and claim they have used search, and not found anything.
Maybe my searchbutton is the only one working, cause sometimes when ppl claim they have been using search, and could not find anything. I tested and did same search and got many hits within 3-5 posts, and found what they had searched for with no problem....
I do not respect ppl whos first and second post is about the flaws in a rom they just downloaded
"I have been around for many years and know my way around the forums, and I know how to find stuff" and they got a postcount that say 5, and they ask questions that makes me wonder if they have a teflon brain, cause if you have been around xda for a long time, and dont even know how to soft and hard reset, then....
I might seam angry in what I have written, or sad, or w/e
Im not
Im just amazed..
cause im a jerk
Totally irrelevant but Itje, you remind me of my best friend of 17 years and he lives 1,500 miles away from me. . He'll say things that sound crude and mean, but underneath, he's truly genuine and warm hearted. My point is that you're a softy . Just joking.
I lately tend to simply ignore questions which I'm sure I have seen a few pages ago or very very close at the beginning.
I fully agree with Itje that it is pure laziness if somebody says he read the thread or spent some time in solving his problems
if the solution to the question is written in the first, second or third post or maybe still on the first page.
It feels like a slap in the face and has the taste of a being lied to, so I rather ignore those person/question and
wish that others who once asked the same question jump in for help and give something back to the forum.
That's the spirit of this forum.
PS: I dont like flaming either, but often it's totally understandable, but still it's wrong.
No offense.. but i've been around here for a long time. I don't post a lot, but I do a lot of reading. I also have been active on many many different boards. What gets me about this board and many others is that some people think they have a whole bunch of clout just because the post a lot.. well whoopty freakin doo..
In regards to the search subject: searching here is a pain in the arse. Nobody's topics are clear, and you can describe what you are looking for in a million different ways. So, what you are trying to fix will not be fixed. The only thing that would be lovely to see change would be to see the flamers come down off their high forum poster horses and join the rest of us on Earth.
Start flame now...
<drunk rant>
To follow up with my claims about topics.. here is an example that caused me to ask for help. This topic:
Sticky: A Herald's Guide to Flashing Aserg, USPL and HARD-SPL
Ok.. so I had done Open Touch 2.3 or something and taken a few weeks from reading the forums and I come back and Open Touch 2.7 was just an NBH file.. so i read the wiki, which leads you to dead links, or at least it did that week when I was trying to figure this out. But here is my issue with that topic.. I look at that I and I think.. "Flashing Aserg" In my mind I think, that's not for me, I don't want or even know what ASERG is, nor USPL nor Hard SPL.. I'm looking for "NBH" right?? Nothing helpful came up. Try searching in the Herald forum for "how to flash nbh" see what you get... unless it's a very specific string you are looking for, good luck.
A fix to that topic? how bout: Sticky: A Herald's Guide to Flashing --using-- Aserg, USPL and HARD-SPL
That would have at least got me into that subject.. and guess what.. there the answer I needed lies.
I finally got it thanks to duprade and ttran001 in this thread that i hijacked: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=362986&page=2
Neither of them flamed.. good dudes.
</drunk rant>
So just to keep you all informed.
Not only in forums but also in Moderator-Talk we are discussing the problem of flaming...
... and there are several point of start...
- more and more people wnat ALL for free and want it personalized to themselfe (like all around the world in "real life"
- reading is time = time is money = all for free = no reading...
- xda is GROWING - when you can get a XDA TErra for 40€ with contract also "young" (i mean yound brains" start buying a PPC for chatting and all that..... But aren´t used to read... jk
- blaming is on of the BEST FREETIME game: see "Big Idol", "Superstar" or ALL the castingsshows round the world.
So what I want to say... the world is getting worse - and that wouldn´t take a break on XDA-dev.
BUT all have to work on it.
Flar - our admin - is working on the searchfunction!!!!
Cookers - maybe the releases must have BIG letters!
Moderator - please don´t take part on flaming and advise other who are blaming
Seniors - please keep helping each other
Noobs - pleas read, read, read
AND to ALL: Please let´s start to keep threads clean again...
A thread with 200post and 20 pages BEFORE the rom is released is NOT the way it should be...
And posts like:
1.: "You are releasing - great"
2.: "I´m downloading"
3.: "Flashing process 80%"
4.: "Flashing 99%"
5.: "Booting"
6.: "I will test...."
7.: "I will report..."
8.: "SO after testing for a while I found ......"
I think to start with post #8 would be the best way to keep threads clean...
Thanks.
Not sure if Ignoring is the answer ....................
If those who know just ignore the questions, then Only Noobs will answer Noobs..........
And if a Noob follows a Noob then both will fall into a pit.
robosiris said:
Totally irrelevant but Itje, you remind me of my best friend of 17 years and he lives 1,500 miles away from me. . He'll say things that sound crude and mean, but underneath, he's truly genuine and warm hearted. My point is that you're a softy . Just joking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, Im a soft Jerk
zcink said:
If those who know just ignore the questions, then Only Noobs will answer Noobs..........
And if a Noob follows a Noob then both will fall into a pit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If we use all our focus on answering the same questions over and over again, then we would spend less time cooking and figuring out the socalled bugs.
your loss...
But from what I understand, in you guys oppinion, we are supposed to answer everyone, no matter what, no matter how many times the same question is asked in a thread, and even if there is a thread with the sollution, maybe even a sticky?
You suggest that we give them a link to the post containing the answer, are we supposed to keep a Favourite list with a link to all answers we have supplied? and that we scroll through it to find the right one and post it?
Or maybe we could use search function? yeah wow, lets do all the work for the newbees...
NO MATTER what I write...its wrong
If I tell them to search, to use either google or searchfunction, they all claim to not find it (most do)
If I guide them to the answer, they keep coming asking next time, and next time and next time. Because they get the answers with no work trying to find it.
This might sound harsh or w/e
But every time I do try to help ppl out, they start adding me to msn, and pm me all the time asking for help and a personalized rom. They start acting as we are old time buddies, and whats next step? Im gonna be everones personal chef?
so im sure you wiseguys have a answer for that to, im sure. But thats because you just dont have a clue what this is all about.
Sure you help out with diffrent issues, and talk nicly to the newbees, thats totally cool with me.
Im sure you even like it, and that nice too.
Maybe we could call it "your function here"
and then I must add, thats not my function here.
Im no good with the "nOOb's" asking the same over and over (....)
A while back I was told (when a similar topic was brought up) just ignore them, and many agreed.
Basicly, thats not an option anymore either
SO, what I figure from all this, is that no matter what I do, im a jerk if I state what I feel in the matter, im a jerk if I ignore the questions.
The biggest problem beeing a person that help everyone out, is that more and more ppl comes to you, because you get a reputation that you are nice, helping and commited. But how much can a person contribute?
to be honest I feel that I am in a situation where I wish I could just cut all this out, I feel that no matter what I say or do, it tends to lead the wrong way.
I love making roms, its a great hobby. I like to help out, but I really dont have the time to get involved personally with everyones issues, everyones new fantastic ideas and cook a personal rom with this or that added, or this and that removed
Im not a bad guy, im not a angry pissed of guy who flames everyone who ask for my help. I have guided many on msn, mail and pm.
I try to look into the problems reported in my roms, and I try fix it. Even if I dont give a answer always to reporte bugs, I do note them, and I try to fix.
But I do have a family, I do have a job, and I do have other interests besides rom cooking.
Occationaly the cup runs over, we get tired of repeating ourself, and we answer in a sarcastic way.
im taking a break from this.
have fun all
zcink said:
If those who know just ignore the questions, then Only Noobs will answer Noobs..........
And if a Noob follows a Noob then both will fall into a pit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course ignoring is the best answer, but it helps me from starting giving harsh answers.
I rather say nothing if I'm pissed than start blaming and complaining.
Instead of offending the person I rather keep quiet and really hope that people
who get the exact answer once assist with the same answer.
It has nothing to do with noobs helping noobs. It's more about sharing the same spirit to the whole community,
I really don't understand why only a group and always the same has to stand here and help, help, help.
None of us bought the knowledge with buying a PPC, we all sent down and read, read, read.
Things are free here, so the very least people can do is read.
One thing I really would like to see is, that we all should collect the bugs and solutions found over time
and pass it over to the moderator and/or cook to combine them on teh first page as those post are reserved already.
Like this you really can answer the so called stupid question with look in post #3 for the issue.
Like this we could keep the thread clean with all the bull**** as papamopps described.
And since I'm also one of those thread trashers who writes those useless "Thanks for the release" or "Your ROM looks awsome" posts
I will stop with that but try to give more constructive comments.
And even we seniors are not all knowing, I still learn a lot while hanging out here.
Post counts means nothing else than the activeness of a member does not necessarily reflects his knowledge about PPC.
And just like in real life, you don't approach a group of stranger who are in a conversation and start talking or even ask questions.
You listen first and slowly move along the conversation.
That's common etiquette and not just for grown ups also for the younger folks.
Those are common manners around the world.
We are all no employees of XDA-DEV we are all volounteers, so we really deserve the right whether to answer or not.
If we get paid for this I will even tell time and the weather forecast if that's the question ask
As long I'm here in my FREE time I choose whom to answer and whom not.
Cheers
@ Itje
101% behind you thoughts, I prefer being called a jerk too and stick with you guys. Having a good time here is more important for me and if I can only achieve that with ignoring some others, then it's a fair and low price.
I understand all the frustration over this. I apologize if my comment offended anyone. I was half joking. When I first came here, I had question and was just ignored. I always appreciated any help I got no matter how silly. Even now I find it difficult to search here.
I still think the search engine here should be tweaked so its easy to use and goes right to the right threads. One day I read 29 threads before I got the answer to the question I was searching for. I can see why people just ask -- it is irritating to some but easier for those seeking the answers.
anyway, yeah I guess you can just ignore the questions. I mean nobody is obligated to answer anyone.
Hi all,
for starters, I know where the search-button is and I know how to read, I've read the stickies and most of the links, so no obvious remarks please
I'm having a hard time finding good threads to read about creating/editing/cooking roms, understanding what XIP/SYS files are, knowing how to strip/add programs,...
I've used keywords like: rom cooking, xip, how to, port, tut(orial), etc...
It only gives a gazillion answers and most of the time useless threads...
Once in a while it's worth reading, but most of the time it's junk or way to specific/difficult...
So the question is, could anyone link some usefull good threads/discussions/how-to's that they've read?
Maybe you could give it a rating yourself going from beginner/intermediate/pro...
Maybe such a condensed topic is already on the forums, then please do show me, since I didn't found it yet...
If you're first thought is "god, not again", then please, don't respond at all
Thanks for your time!
quinstar said:
If you're first thought is "god, not again", then please, don't respond at all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Man, this thread is just below you as of this moment ....
Really nice cooking class for Blackstone, but very usable for Kovsky too!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=480714
jackleung said:
Man, this thread is just below you as of this moment ....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jack,it's not because of my low post count, that I'm just around here...
I've seen and read that post several times, I've dumped my own rom and downloaded others, I extracted them and started fiddling around, but that's all what I did, fiddling, since I don't really know what I'm doing...
For instance, I'm reading and seeing XIP everywhere, but I don't even understand what it stands for, I can't find (or don't use the right keywords) to find any decent info on it...
I found this great post of Ameet about porting XIP, but that's already about hardcore coding without the basic info I hoped to find... I'm just a beginner, that'll be stuff to read when I'm several months further...
It all starts with the saying, "give a man a fish and he can eat for a whole day. Learn him how to fish and he can eat a life-time.."
The post you refered to is great to learn how the kitchen works, great for learning how to use tools, but the action eventually only shows how to remove standard OEM stuff out of a rom. Nothing more...
Understanding the ins and outs of a rom, how it's build and why, how it's linked and what it does... That's where I think it starts, but that's what I can't find... If no-one ever wrote anything about it, then I will, but then I'll have to try and find bits of pieces of info everywhere... And that's why I posted the question. So people could at least point to some information they know where to find...
I've even seen and tried your work... It's great, but it's a full working, locked rom (at least, it doesn't break down using htainlin's info to the same files and folders as a stockrom does, or I'm using the wrong tools)... I can't see what you've done to make it that way... I can't open it to compare with something stock to see what has changed and conclude what your changes really do... I don't mind reverse engineering, I do have a brain I can use to figure things out..
Well, sorry for the rant, and if I somehow offended you, I didn't intend to, I just hope you now understand what I'm trying to accomplish
Thanks for all who even tried to read this
@Lokatho
Thanks! I've only read the index, but I already know I'll be busy reading that for a couple of hours...
quinstar said:
Jack,it's not because of my low post count, that I'm just around here...
I've seen and read that post several times, I've dumped my own rom and downloaded others, I extracted them and started fiddling around, but that's all what I did, fiddling, since I don't really know what I'm doing...
For instance, I'm reading and seeing XIP everywhere, but I don't even understand what it stands for, I can't find (or don't use the right keywords) to find any decent info on it...
I found this great post of Ameet about porting XIP, but that's already about hardcore coding without the basic info I hoped to find... I'm just a beginner, that'll be stuff to read when I'm several months further...
It all starts with the saying, "give a man a fish and he can eat for a whole day. Learn him how to fish and he can eat a life-time.."
The post you refered to is great to learn how the kitchen works, great for learning how to use tools, but the action eventually only shows how to remove standard OEM stuff out of a rom. Nothing more...
Understanding the ins and outs of a rom, how it's build and why, how it's linked and what it does... That's where I think it starts, but that's what I can't find... If no-one ever wrote anything about it, then I will, but then I'll have to try and find bits of pieces of info everywhere... And that's why I posted the question. So people could at least point to some information they know where to find...
I've even seen and tried your work... It's great, but it's a full working, locked rom (at least, it doesn't break down using htainlin's info to the same files and folders as a stockrom does, or I'm using the wrong tools)... I can't see what you've done to make it that way... I can't open it to compare with something stock to see what has changed and conclude what your changes really do... I don't mind reverse engineering, I do have a brain I can use to figure things out..
Well, sorry for the rant, and if I somehow offended you, I didn't intend to, I just hope you now understand what I'm trying to accomplish
Thanks for all who even tried to read this
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Well, I never judge xda member on their post count since I know some experts in this field maybe new to XDA-developers and some people w/ very high post count are keep on posting **** (e.g. someone in X1 general inventing 4D glasses and UI. )
Most kitchen (at least the one I pointed to) is just a Dos batch script to automated all the tedious command and parameters w/ all the needed tools. You can learn a lot of in and out if just you open it w/ a editor, follow the steps manually and research those tools individually.
If you really want to learning cooking in the hard way, I had a writeup long time back for Asus P525 which most of the steps still apply to any HTC rom nowaday.
All the documents for how to fish is here and we are still seeing people creating new threads for questions that been address millions time. This is a developers forum afterall and no one is responsible to feed you while your hands are free.
Regarding my rom, I never intend to lock it. Both V1 and V2 are extractable but rgu are removed due to space and speed considerateion. Afterall, the main purpose of a rom is for daily "use" instead of "teaching material". Why am I bother to slow my rom down just because I have to let others to extract it?
Jack,
quinstar said:
..., and if somehow I offended you, I didn't intend to,...
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This part was for the locking section you refer to
I already figured out a number of reasons why it would be "locked", and space-limiting was one of them... I definately understand your reasons and by no means am I complaining about it... It's just a pity I can't use such good material as a reference to study...
As for examining the tools, I was already wondering what they're all doing and what they're needed for... However I'm a bit cautious since I don't know how they work... This'll be a matter of trial-and-error...
I will definately have a look at what you've written, not that I'm keen on really wanting to learn it the hard way, but it might make it easier to understand the working of some of the tools...
About the fishing, you are right, no-one is obligated to give me anything. I was merely asking if some-one might remember a post they once read and found very usefull in understanding or learning the process of cooking...
As I already stated, I used the search-button and already found bits of information that I thought were a little usefull, but I'm having a hard time finding any good posts... The topic Lokatho refered to was a great link and gave me some good information and I've got some nice material to work and practice with... It would've taken me ages to find me or just dumb luck...
I'm keeping together all the links I used to read and learn and might paste them in a write-up once I think I've learned a fair bit
To finalise this reply, I understand your frustration, there will always be people who ask the most simple things on any forum, may it be ppc, car, house or anything related... Questions in here like, how do I have to flash your rom, what is hard-spl, why can't you make a 'insert langueage'-rom, reporting a "bug" that's been declared not a bug for several pages already... Those are the most annoying questions I've seen until now(just to name a few) and are really an indication those are posted by lazy people...
Cheers
Q
I just got my g1 and I keep hearing about root. What is it and where can I get it?
Obvisouly I know. My point is, are we all sick of posts like this? Especially when the person doesn't search? Could a mod please make another forum for noobs so they can post these types of thread? Somewhere where they won't get flamed and somewhere where noob posts won't clutter the forums? Something like "xda-developers > dream > noob" or something to that effect?
I know this is the wrong place for this and that it is way out of topic, but the reason why I posted it here was because this is where these noob posts take place and surely regurlars will agree with me. Please do this for the greatewr good of the forums?
Thank you for your time and please respond if you agree.
Also maybe a spell check feature? (See last post haha)
do you really think that the 'noobs' would actually get help from the noob forum?.. think about that for a sec
CBowley said:
I just got my g1 and I keep hearing about root. What is it and where can I get it?
Obvisouly I know. My point is, are we all sick of posts like this? Especially when the person doesn't search? Could a mod please make another forum for noobs so they can post these types of thread? Somewhere where they won't get flamed and somewhere where noob posts won't clutter the forums? Something like "xda-developers > dream > noob" or something to that effect?
I know this is the wrong place for this and that it is way out of topic, but the reason why I posted it here was because this is where these noob posts take place and surely regurlars will agree with me. Please do this for the greatewr good of the forums?
Thank you for your time and please respond if you agree.
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Im not so sure thats the best approach.. Why is such a big deal that a so called noob ask questions, to ensure that he or she doesn't screw there phone up. And i agree if they would just do some research and read stickies,etc. then they would learn something. But if their noobs, then they are probably noobs to the site, and lets face it although this is by far the best forum available for android development its not the easiest to navigate for NOOBS. And if noobs posting noob questions pertaining to android development means that the forum & Community strengthen, then so be it. And Cbowely lets face it some of todays noobs will be tom elite developers, and they are who we depend on.....
CBowley said:
I just got my g1 and I keep hearing about root. What is it and where can I get it?
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If you want root, you will need a shovel, and have to dig and careful not to break the stems. lol, i could not resist.
"root is the user name or account that by default has access to all commands and files on a Linux or other Unix-like operating system. It is also referred to as the root account, root user and the superuser. "
Assuming you are coming from Windows OS environment, Root is like the Administrator account.
How can you get it? http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=442480
I am noob. Most of my post are thanks for this. Awsome thing that made my phone run better. Or if I have a slight issue with somthing I may post a qestion. And I have had a thread locked befor...that thought was a good qestion but lokking back it wasnt ... but anyways.
I would like see a noob section. I basicaly leech off of this site and if I could help some noobs out I would be more than happy to so the real devs could get stuff done and work stuff out.
I am not saying that noobs asking questions is a bad thing, but I DO think there COULD be a better place for it than the developer section. I do believe the noobs would actually get help in the noob section because some people like helping noobs out. I know I would as well as a lot of other people I see in threads that help out noobs, I believe those type of people would enjoy helping the noobs.
Damn I can't believe that I am posting here because I don't want no Enemies, I have gotten tremendous help from this forum, not only with making my phone 100 times better but I also gained a boat load of knowledge in the process. I am not one that would start a thread unless I was at the last possible step I could be after long hours of reading and reading and seraching and through this process I have even been able to help out others....
but come on... someone posts a question cause they are having an issue that they need to get corrected with their equipment and wham they get roasted by useless reply's telling them to "use search" one after the another, after the another, after another when all someone has to do is provide the answer and tell them they could have found it had they searched... or they could have just given a link to the answer and the thread stops... like this thread I came here to see if I could help because the topic is "new g1 please help" this is about as useless as someone starting a thread on which color G1 should I use...
damn just wasted 15 minutes of my life to type this... remember people that everyone that started here had to post their first message, hence we were all "noobs" once when we started as well....
Again I don't want make ANY enemies I just want to make my phone the envy of everyone that sees it(like yesterday when I bought my daughter her G1 and I was typing on my on screen keyboard and they guy at the T-mobile store says hey you got your update, and said no I got my cupcake and man it sure tates good) and if I can provide a link to help steer someone in the right direction so be it...
end of my venting...
peace!
Exactly my point. I'm not *****ing about people making noob posts asking for help, but the fact is they get bombarded with "use the search button" or "this topic has been covered". I am not saying people SHOULDN'T post help threads, but there isn't a place for it.
My point: There SHOULD be a place for people to ask for help.. like a noob forum. Combing through mostly off topic threads, like the rom threads, can take a while and may not be helpful for noobs who do not understand what an spl or fastboot or dalvic cashe is. So with a noob forum, there would be a place to ask: "I succefully rooted, but the instructions say spl, and my english is not very good, so I am having trouble understaing".
This would help
1. Un-clutter the forums
2. From keeping large threads from going off topic
3. Noobs find they want easier by just asking
I mean I agree that asking a simple question that would take a sentence or less to answer would be easier than searching a crap load of threads for hours to find an answer. If I didn't know what an spl was, and I searched, a lot of threads come up, but not many that explain what an spl is. It could take DAYS to find the answer, when someone could just easily easily answer what an spl is.
Again I am not *****ing about noob posts!! Sometimes they need to be asked. It is impossible for a noob to get simple questions answered without spending hours researching.
I believe a noob forum would benefit us all.
Also the topics could be formated:
Help: phone looping
When problem is resolved:
[Solved] phone looping
everyone is concern about noobs cluttering up fourms with "help o bricked my phone" post yet there is at least 3 of these "remove noobs post" posts...kinda makein the problem worse if u ask me....but hey im still a noob myself so what do u know...
bladepbc said:
everyone is concern about noobs cluttering up fourms with "help o bricked my phone" post yet there is at least 3 of these "remove noobs post" posts...kinda makein the problem worse if u ask me....but hey im still a noob myself so what do u know...
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This isn't a "remove noob posts" post, it a "we need a place for noob posts" post.
i just dont get this. i have been a member for 2 months and im just as lost as i was when i started. if i ask 1 of the people who know what to do they say search or gtfo. i search and end up more confused. the threads arent very friendly to a person just starting out like me. all of the language is written for people who already no what their doing. its not dumbed down at all. i think i will just use this site to download roms and themes since thats all i can seem to do
I am not trying to attack you or anything, but what is the purpose of this thread?
There are a lot of helpful people around here, maybe you aren't putting your questions in the Q&A thread? Or they aren't worded properly so people know how to assist you.... IDK.
Seeing as this is the only thread you have ever started here, I can't really say that it looks like you have posted much requesting help. I see one post where you were having problems flashing a new recovery image, but it looks like you probably just entered either the file name or path wrong. Or you didn't save the file in the root of your sdcard.
But, also, seeing as this is the XDA-Developers forum.... a certain level of knowledge seems to be expected by a lot of the members. I really don't see where anyone has told you to search or GTFO, in fact, I didn't really notice any responses to your posts.
If you want people to help you, post in the proper section and form coherent, explanatory questions.
jerzy448 said:
i just dont get this. i have been a member for 2 months and im just as lost as i was when i started. if i ask 1 of the people who know what to do they say search or gtfo. i search and end up more confused. the threads arent very friendly to a person just starting out like me. all of the language is written for people who already no what their doing. its not dumbed down at all. i think i will just use this site to download roms and themes since thats all i can seem to do
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I'm home sick today. What do you need help with. I'll help you out..
bhilgeman said:
I'm home sick today. What do you need help with. I'll help you out..
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See, another helpful person offering assistance..
This place isn't all that bad, now is it?
The issue is this I think...
Generally, you need to know something of what you are doing. The reasons are simple;
1) If things start to go wrong, you need to understand enough about the process to at least be able to follow instructions without them having to be written in a specific button-by-button manner,
2) People who blindly follow instructions are bound to miss a step or screw one up simply because they don't understand the instructions (this goes back to #1).
If you are a regular user of an android device, I suggest sticking with a stock build -- they are meant for people who know nothing about the platform. If you are an advanced user, you should be able to get the "gist" of things and fill in the blanks where necessary.
I'm not telling you to gtfo, what I'm telling you is that you really need to think about YOUR level of understanding of how things happen. If you aren't advanced enough to be able to fill in a few blanks here and there, then you might want to think about what you are doing, which is essentially putting a fairly expensive piece of technology into the hands of people you don't know and have no reason to trust. You also have to realize that the instructions that you get from here don't go through months of QA to verify that they are perfectly correct with no chance of, for example, bricking your phone. It is very possible that you could see a bunch of instructions that tell you what to do, but that the author maybe accidentally forgot to include a critical step, and it is absolutely UP TO YOU to be able to see that there is a missing step.
I concur. I have had numerous people ask me for help rooting their g1's. Some I help because they are computer literate and have hacked or altered software on other platforms and hardware. Those that have asked that still need help when basic things go wrong in a windows platform, I say no and tell them to enjoy their Android phone. If they are willing to dive in and learn, my offer may change down the road
What do you need help with?