Database Develop

iPhone

I appreciate that this is OT but I think that the more we hear about the iPhone the happier we will be with WM6. The latest news is that it will open Word and Excel attachments! More. OMG!!!!

We can all appreciate an off-topic post. Just be sure to always post in the appropriate forum. Thanks!

I would seriously buy the iPhone if I had the money and lived in the US.
http://www.dvdtoiphoneconverter.org/

TaurusBullba said:
We can all appreciate an off-topic post. Just be sure to always post in the appropriate forum. Thanks!
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HAHAHAHA -- your avatar, man. I wonder if there are even 4 people on this entire forum who know what it's from.
Sincerely,
The Terror That Flaps in the Night

bobbyelliott said:
I appreciate that this is OT but I think that the more we hear about the iPhone the happier we will be with WM6. The latest news is that it will open Word and Excel attachments! More. OMG!!!!
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I would be ecstatically happy with WM6 if someone would just come up with a fingertip interface for it that was consistent.
What there needs to be is a new line of WM6 (or WM7, I guess) that supports the current pen-oriented UI as well as a new, sensible touch-oriented UI. I got really excited about the iPhone when I heard about it, as I am a Mac user, but then became profoundly disappointed when I found out that there would be no SDK. As WM developers, we can write just about anything we want for our phones, but iPhone users are restricted to only what Steve Jobs thinks they should be allowed to do. It's incredibly frustrating.

shogunmark said:
that was around me era of being a kid... im a bit suspicious that mike knows what its from considering his a really really really old guy
oh... and BOO iphone... piece of junk... thats my .02
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thats ok.. if he wants to waste $600 USD on a 3 maybe 4 year old technology then thats his choice shogunmark
just because it has a pretty screen doesnt put it even close up against the Hermes, Trinity etc...

pspconverter
Apple doesn’t want to confuse its customers.
http://www.pspconverter.com/iphone_converter/

walshieau said:
thats ok.. if he wants to waste $600 USD on a 3 maybe 4 year old technology then thats his choice shogunmark
just because it has a pretty screen doesnt put it even close up against the Hermes, Trinity etc...
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The HTC Smartphones are hardly cutting edge. 624MHz Xscale? Helloooo, 2004.
We use good products with HTC. The iPhone will be good for a lot of people too; it's not the age of technology, but how it is implemented that counts. I bet the iPhone's camera isn't laggy like the one on my Athena, and it crashes less than my Universal, and doesn't have call/end buttons right under where your fingers are.
There's more to a successful product than just "technology". iPhone isn't for me, I want power and can live with the glitches of WM and HTC devices. There's room in the market for iPhones and Smartphones, and Apple will have done a good job with the user interface and overall usability of the device.

RichardKAthena said:
The HTC Smartphones are hardly cutting edge. 624MHz Xscale? Helloooo, 2004.
We use good products with HTC. The iPhone will be good for a lot of people too; it's not the age of technology, but how it is implemented that counts. I bet the iPhone's camera isn't laggy like the one on my Athena, and it crashes less than my Universal, and doesn't have call/end buttons right under where your fingers are.
There's more to a successful product than just "technology". iPhone isn't for me, I want power and can live with the glitches of WM and HTC devices. There's room in the market for iPhones and Smartphones, and Apple will have done a good job with the user interface and overall usability of the device.
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The difference between a WM device and the iPhone is that you can do pretty much whatever you want with a WM device. With the iPhone you are restricted to what Steve tells you you want.
I have a feeling it's going to stay this way, too. Look at the iPod. Years later the best thing you can do with it is buy games from iTunes.
I hope I'm wrong.

starkruzr said:
Look at the iPod. Years later the best thing you can do with it is buy games from iTunes.
I hope I'm wrong.
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You are.
I mean, just above, you are.
It's an iPod. A portable music player. The best thing you can do with it is play music; which it does very well. Better than any Creative or Sandisk devices I've used, better than every alternative I've tried. The iPod + iTunes combination works a LOT better for organising and accessing your music. I don't care if you can't make it make the tea and access GPS whilst it repairs your car. It is exceptionally good at what it is supposed to do.
Of course, bashing the iPod, or slagging off the as yet unreleased iPhone, is really cool and against the grain. Really helps to understand what you're being negative about, though.
See, I don't think the tech matters one bit, either to the fans or detractors.
The fans expect the iPhone to work brilliantly at being a phone and music player.
The detractors wouldn't care if it had 3.5G, 80GB and cost $5. They just don't like - for whatever reason - seeing Apple (and to be fair, pretty much anyone) be a success.
Go figure. I use and advocate WM devices. I use and advocate iPod. I use Macs and have done for 23 years. I also use Windows, and was quite a fan of Windows 2000 when it came out (and before OS X showed up).
Best tool for the job. Don't care WHO makes it. Apple make some very good stuff, which is why they have a loyal folllowing. Yes, people will buy iPhone because of he hype, but I bet it turns out to be a well designed, functional phone. It'll also be vastly more interesting when it becomes iPhone version 3.

Its not windows users that started the bad mouthing. When Jobs says the open platform of windows is unstable and could bring a network down he is starting it. WM is not unstable. I use it constantly with no problems. There is no way to bring down a phone network with a WM device. The network just plain will not let bad info through. I have tried to mess with everything possible on a wm device connecting to a phone network and it is just not possible to adversely effect it.
People who claim that wm is unstable are the same people installing home made apps of sites like this or downloading cracked software from bittorrent. I have no problem with those things but you get what you pay for.
I also must be heavily anti iphone because I am a developer. Jobs has refused developers access to the iphone. Remember that apple was the company that made developers pay for the privilege to program for the original pda, the Newton. Microsoft let us do it for nothing. Apple is anti me.
I hope the iphone is a failure and it sinks apple or they choose to open it, either way is ok with me.
Your argument about the ipod is less than convincing. This is a world of convergence - life made easier by having everything in one place. If I go by your rational I will need to go back to the days of carrying a separate phone, pda and gps. Apple know that the days of single use devices are comming to an end or they would not be taking this gamble. Its also probably the reason no further development in new video ipods has been seen.

OdeeanRDeathshead said:
Its not windows users that started the bad mouthing. When Jobs says the open platform of windows is unstable and could bring a network down he is starting it.
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What is this, Kindergarten? "He started it!". WM as an open platform IS unstable. Look at the amount of trouble people have with it. Look at the number of newbie posts on here saying they've messed up their handsets. It all depends on your value of "stable".
MS/HTC has absolutely no control over what people put on their handsets. It's great. I love it. I also regularly try apps which utterly break the handset, sometimes ones which SHOULD work, because of the variations in the hardware.
"Could bring a network down" - without context, I can neither agree nor disagree. Supporting the newbies with buggy software, sure. Technology wise? Bollocks. WM devices may be variable "phones", but they do work most of the time.
WM is not unstable. I use it constantly with no problems. There is no way to bring down a phone network with a WM device. The network just plain will not let bad info through. I have tried to mess with everything possible on a wm device connecting to a phone network and it is just not possible to adversely effect it.
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In that context I agree with you.
People who claim that wm is unstable are the same people installing home made apps of sites like this or downloading cracked software from bittorrent. I have no problem with those things but you get what you pay for.
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Or buying CorePlayer and finding it doesn't work correctly, or buying games from the online Handago store and finding they don't handle screen rotation correctly, or buying MS Voice Commander and finding it doesn't correctly replace the phone's own voice tagging applications...
Third party software doesn't have to be "dodgy" to break the handset. Cracked copies of software are frequently fine, likewise, legitimate software can be buggy. It's the fact that the range and variety of devices makes destructive testing near impossible.
Ever used a Palm? Even though the Palm's original OS was small and almost "single platform", I had to reset my Tungsten C constantly, and the Vx I had before that. Inevitably due to third party apps.
Now. I personally WANT the apps. I don't mind rebooting my phone, or having to uninstall something, or make two copies because TomTom can't see voices on the SD card but is slow on Microdrive. I don't mind this, I'm fairly used to it, I like to experiment.
Do I think it's a good user experience. HELL no.
I also must be heavily anti iphone because I am a developer. Jobs has refused developers access to the iphone. Remember that apple was the company that made developers pay for the privilege to program for the original pda, the Newton. Microsoft let us do it for nothing. Apple is anti me.
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Newton failed. And I can hardly call Visual Studio and the CE development kits "free". Trial versions exist, but in a time-limited form.
I hope the iphone is a failure and it sinks apple or they choose to open it, either way is ok with me.
Your argument about the ipod is less than convincing. This is a world of convergence - life made easier by having everything in one place.
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Fine. Make me an Ameo which works reliably, has phone-like battery life, an 80GB HD so it has the capacity of my iPod, is small enough to clip on my shirt like a shuffle, has a 5" screen for watching movies on...
Convergence makes sense to a degree. Devices which do it all are compromised. iPod is an EXCELLENT music player and organiser. I don't want it to be anything else. I don't like the way WM handles files on the Ameo, or any of the alternatives; iTunes is very good at what it does. If my Ameo worked with iTunes - iTunes for Pocket PC, with sync from my desktop library - then I'd perhaps be happier with it. But basically no convergence device does everything well.
Apple will get phone calling and WiFi right. Missing out 3G is stupid and short sighted for a web-phone. But the user interface and build quality will be very suited for the real world applications of the device.
If I go by your rational I will need to go back to the days of carrying a separate phone, pda and gps. Apple know that the days of single use devices are comming to an end or they would not be taking this gamble. Its also probably the reason no further development in new video ipods has been seen.
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Two devices together works well for me. I personally like to see music separate - give me phone/PDA with GPS functions, or GPS/Music together. Phone and PDA functions blur anyway. PDA=contacts, appointments - big ol' Filofax. It's natural to link these.
As for third-party apps on the iPhone, I'm ambivalent. If Apple get it right, it won't need any to speak of. The technology isn't interesting enough to push. I'm more interested in what appears - to all intents and purposes - to be OS X on an ARM device.
An OS X PDA would kick arse, IMO. But then you WOULD need third party apps. OS X on Ameo-like hardware? Bring it on.
About that $950 iPhone. You didn't accept or decline my wager. Chicken? Not so confident that the $950 price is correct?

I've been a Windows developer since 1999 - so I hate Apple (bad developer support, proprietary, apart from osx..) and I will naturally hate the iphone. However the iphone is good for the whole mobiles scene. Shakes it up a bit. All the stuff is gimmicky and fairly useless (examples 1. flipping through 100 albums with your fingers? 2. Drag to unlock that needs two hands, 3. the icons on the today screen showing "you have 2 appointments" ..errr.. when? The screen that will obviously break at the slightest contact with the ground - too close to the edge). The list is really endless. The thing I love best is the keyboard they show to type text messages with - its far too small to use with fingers!! Get a stylus dudes!
iphone is a device for current macintosh customers. In which case they'll sell quite a few! I'm looking forward to seeing one in the flesh and slagging it off, as any self-respecting apple-hater should do!

jellyme said:
I've been a Windows developer since 1999 - so I hate Apple (bad developer support, proprietary, apart from osx..)
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Rapidly increasing market share, opinion formed in 1999 based on Diesel's legacy of frankly outmoded hardware and an operating system that made Windows ME look stable, proprietary "Intel" hardware, OS X /is/ Apple as far as development are concerned, very good developer support now via ADC, tools included with every OS X installation...
The first sign of intelligence is evolution. Sure, feel free to hate Apple (hating a corporation is very smart, after all), but try and do so for the right reasons, before you cut off a large market for your products.

RichardKAthena said:
WM as an open platform IS unstable. Look at the amount of trouble people have with it. Look at the number of newbie posts on here saying they've messed up their handsets. It all depends on your value of "stable".
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Sorry, but I've got to take exception at that statement. To me it reads:-
"windows is an unstable os because - people muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand"
and
"the iPhone will have good os because - people can't muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand, because apple won't let them"
If MS made their ppcs so that the consumers couldn't add programs to it, your argument wouldn't exist.
and how many users (not including people working for the same company) use the exact same setup?

bbobeckyj said:
Sorry, but I've got to take exception at that statement. To me it reads:-
"windows is an unstable os because - people muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand"
and
"the iPhone will have good os because - people can't muck it up installing rubbish or doing things they don't understand, because apple won't let them"
If MS made their ppcs so that the consumers couldn't add programs to it, your argument wouldn't exist.
and how many users (not including people working for the same company) use the exact same setup?
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iPhone will not be so locked down that it cannot be personalised. However, you are misinterpreting and misquoting what I said. I don't know how stable the iPhone OS is, and I'm not referring to the stability of the OS.
I'm referring to the stability of the user experience.
Now, my gut feeling (based on the quality of the phone applications in the HTC devices I've used compared to Symbian, SE and Motorola devices) is that in look and feel, user experience and reliability, beating WM would be like shooting fish in a barrel. It works, sure, but it is not pretty, it is not consistent, and it is not reliable. Just witness the caller ID mess on Bluetooth. This isn't a "WM is crap WHAAA" post, it's just an objective observation; you will note that I USE A WM5 AND WM6 DEVICE. By choice. I am aware of the options, and of course I'd like things to be better, but it does the job and the hardware offers a lot of advantages.
Now, if you're really interpreting it the way you say you are, then I suggest you read more closely. I thoroughly expect people to skim the post, see "iPhone good, WM bad", and respond - even though I simply being objective and acknowledging the faults and benefits of BOTH platforms. iPhone is going to succeed, and it's going to do that largely on hype and marketing, but that's not to say that Apple won't have got some things right, because that's what they do. They didn't come to dominate the music player market by producing a product which had all the flaws of the competition with none of the benefits; they polished it and got it right.
HTC make lovely hardware. It runs alright with WM. Give it a better OS and it would be amazing. Is there really any logical reason why the camera on the Ameo is so woefully slow? The call/end buttons on the Universal are positioned RIGHT where your fingers rest if you use it as a phone and have no distinquishing features when not lit? These devices do not have the depth and quality of industrial design that Apple employs in their consumer devices.
What trade do people want to make? Do they want their music library dragged together by Windows Media, including the ringtones it finds on the HD, or do they want iTunes "plug and play" simplicity (and if anyone wants to slag off iTunes, trust me - I have heard all the criticisms before. The ones I'll accept are that it's a bit slow with large libraries, and it doesn't handle a wide range of codecs by default - I've used every device from Archos to Zen and nothing touches an iPod for sheer intuitive behaviour, or iTunes for genuinely maintaining an organised, logical music library).

I will never use itunes because when on it communicates over the internet even if I set it not to. A lot of apps do this of course but with itunes the connectivity is needed so blocking it is not an option. I need to trust that my system is working for me and not apple. If that same problem was on the iphone then because you can't write a firewall for it your privacy is gone.
My employer has over 10000 wm devices and they operate for weeks at a time with no resetting. They get software updates remotely and are mainly used by non technical users. I personaly use these to work with and I have not been able to crash one. We drop them and get them dirty but still they run. Is that unstable.
I would not gamble with you because you seem like a nut to me and I would not want to exchange details with you.
(This post was done using the real keyboard , from a park bench, over 3g, on my dopod 838 pro. Something I will never be able to do with an iphone!)

OdeeanRDeathshead said:
I will never use itunes because when on it communicates over the internet even if I set it not to. A lot of apps do this of course but with itunes the connectivity is needed so blocking it is not an option. I need to trust that my system is working for me and not apple. If that same problem was on the iphone then because you can't write a firewall for it your privacy is gone.
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What absolute, total, drivel. My son uses iTunes on his iMac, has no internet connection whatsoever, and it works perfectly. He can rip CDs, but has to type the track/artist detail in unless it is included (which is very rare), can sync the iPod, etc. He's been doing this for nearly 2 years.
My employer has over 10000 wm devices and they operate for weeks at a time with no resetting. They get software updates remotely and are mainly used by non technical users. I personaly use these to work with and I have not been able to crash one. We drop them and get them dirty but still they run. Is that unstable.
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I'm fully aware that these things are stable. Again, I'm talking about end-user experience. Employers with 10,000 identical devices (I'm going to take a stab in the dark here and say "courier services" or "retail" - something along the lines of Intermec handheld data terminals) will generally have specified the software set on the device, it will be limited, and it will be predictable and tested.
I would not gamble with you because you seem like a nut to me and I would not want to exchange details with you.
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*snorts* Whatever. I like to talk about this stuff seriously, I've been using mobile devices of one form or another since the Tandy 102. You interpret me writing so much about it as being a nut? I interpret it as being the reason I'm paid to review hardware professionally. (I'll post pictures of my latest toys soon, one of them will be very interesting I think).
(This post was done using the real keyboard , from a park bench, over 3g, on my dopod 838 pro. Something I will never be able to do with an iphone!)
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Good for you. Now listen to 7.34GB of music on it for 24 hours without having to recharge. I was posting to Usenet in 1998 from an HP 680LX connected with an Option One GSM datacard; I could make calls on it if I used the wired headset. It's hardly new technology in any sense of the word - each device is merely refining and targeting a specific user base.
This is what you seem to be failing to grasp. iPhone is not inherently bad. It's just not what YOU want. It's not even that expensive; an unsubsidised N73 costs... $500. And it doesn't do many consumer level things that the iPhone does, despite being targeted at that very market.
I may be a nut, but at least I know WTF I'm talking about and don't have an irrational hatred of one company

RichardKAthena said:
It's an iPod. A portable music player. The best thing you can do with it is play music; which it does very well.
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Yes, and the line from iPhone fans about the iPhone is "it's a phone, iPod and breakthrough internet device. The best thing you can do with it make phone calls, play music and use Safari, which it does very well." This is not sufficient for me, for starters. And Steve's explanation of his "sweet solution" for developing "applications" for the iPhone was a joke and an insult to developers.
Apple is telling its customers to pay $500 for a UI. My TYTN can already do everything the iPhone can do, sans the flashy UI, plus MORE -- UMTS/HSDPA, for starters. It can also run any particular binaries you choose to run on it.
Of course, bashing the iPod, or slagging off the as yet unreleased iPhone, is really cool and against the grain. Really helps to understand what you're being negative about, though.
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You think you've got me pegged, but you don't. I am typing this post on my Macbook Pro. For the most part, I love Apple and what they've done with computing. But Steve is taking the company in this "closed device" direction that really, really turns me off. When we were told OS X was essentially UNIX with an Apple GUI, as a geek I got really, really excited, and when I finally got my Mac, Tiger did NOT let me down.
OS X is an excellent example of how the Apple way has, for the last 7 years, been to cater both to nontechnical users and heavily technical users alike. This is what I was expecting from an Apple cell phone. I was, essentially, expecting an OS X PDA phone. This is not AT ALL what we are getting. You can't even cut and paste, ffs!
See, I don't think the tech matters one bit, either to the fans or detractors.
The fans expect the iPhone to work brilliantly at being a phone and music player.
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I'm sure they do. And it will. And all of the enormous hardware potential of the iPhone will be utterly wasted.
The detractors wouldn't care if it had 3.5G, 80GB and cost $5. They just don't like - for whatever reason - seeing Apple (and to be fair, pretty much anyone) be a success.
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Again, you've got me wrong. I don't care about any of that. I would gladly pay $699 for an iPhone that was actually released with an SDK. Why? I want my Terminal. I want my Adium (or something like it). I want ssh, VNC, VLC, Skype, the GNU toolset, and anything else I want, because there is simply no compelling reason to disallow any of it. The only reason any of this is not possible is Apple's incredibly restrictive software, and the only reason Apple's software restrictions exist is AT&T's greed.
I think the iPhone will be enormously successful, but I have serious doubts Apple will ever meet my needs for a smartphone (or the needs of many, many other potential customers out there).

I call you a nut because you are trying to bet me 50 dollars over the details of an unreleased gadget and because you are so emotionally tied to the idea of the iphone that you can't stop.
I was happy to wait and see back on page one but you just can't stop defending a seemingly inferior product that you don't even have.
I don't trust Apple or microsoft. A phone carries a lot of personal information that could be very damaging in the wrong hands. My point about itunes is that with no third party apps, the iphone will not be safe because any program that apple put on it will be free to do what it wants.
Its like Nokia says, "this is what the pc has become". How many people would trust their microsoft onecare more than their norton or other security suit? Now what about trusting security to no one because their won't be any on an iphone. Just look at the 100 plus security bowser problems patched by apple last week. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
The whole discussion is pointless anyway because we do not have one and by next month it will be hacked to run third party apps anyway like apple tv.

Why I hate my Touch Pro

Well... This is a personal rant and I've already seen a lot of similar messages. It usually starts with an "my iPhone is better" and the answer always seems to be something along the lines of "ah, it sucks, our Touch Pro is way better, you'll be coming back crying", yadda-yadda-yadda. Here is my take - and I don't mean to offend anyone... I write this because I'm totally dissapointed with MY Touch Pro. Maybe you feel good about yours, it does whatever you needed/wanted, you simply love it.
iPhone is better. A heck of a lot better. I wish I had chose to buy one instead of this piece of crap that calls itself a "smartphone". Why? Well... I came to the world of Windows Mobile with a Tytn, a great all-round phone that had some problems but mostly did what it was supposed to do. The friendly guys and gals in this site managed to squeeze every ounce of life, speed, features and durability from it, making me totally love it. Custom ROMs made it faster and faster, added new and useful features... but... But then came "the new phones". Theoretically, they were faster, they had more memory, "they were better" in every single category. And Touch Pro was at the top, so, after lots of thought, loving its design and hating the fact I had to use an external GPS device with my Tytn, I splashed the cash and bought a brand new, shiny Touch Pro. More memory. More speed. Better screen. Better graphics. Better sound. Better GPS... NOT.
Even with custom ROMs, my Touch Pro crawls like a snail when compared with my Tytn. I mean it, and I tried more than 10 different ones (and I don't count different versions, but different cooks). The device simply seems unable to cope with its official interface, Touchflo 3D, whereas Manilla 2D ran screaming on the Tytn. Touch Pro has more Ram, theoretically making Opera usable. Goodbye ol' crashes of the Tytn, with Touch Pro I can finally browse the Internets happily! Or can I? Opera seems to totally suck compared to the iPhones Safari, and that doesn't come from an iPhone lover - I hate almost anything Apple ever created, including the iPhone. BUT... Whenever I'm with a friend of mine that has an iPhone, browsing the net through it is pure joy compared to the nightmare of Touch Pro. Appart from feeling more "fluid", iPhone is a lot faster when changing from portrait to landscape. Yeah, the online keyboard sucks, but so does the hardware keyboard of Touch pro compared to the one in my old Tytn (I know, "it's my opinion", never said it's a global rule).
The slow-as-hell problem applies to every single function or application in my Touch Pro. I'm with the afformentioned friend and we want to tweet something? Perfect. In ten seconds he's taken a snapshot in his iPhone, opened Twitter and posted a message, picture included. I'm still waiting for a Twitter app to load. We want to take some notes? He taps, writes, saves. In 5 secs. I'm taking out the stylus, for the interface buttons are too small for my fingers. I select Start>Utilities>Notes, wait for the Notes app to load, wait, wait, after it loads hunt the tiny "new" somewhere below the screen, wait for a new note to open, open the keyboard, wait for the screen to realign, type, wait for the characters to appear (and yes, I have applied the TX9 tweak but the keyboard is still painfully slow), save the note, close the keyboard, close the notes app, wait for the screen to realign. Ah, what a joy.
And the apps! Oh, those glorious apps! We have ten unusable RSS readers, 5 different commercial programs that try to improve our phones interface (each failing miserably in different ways), and... Well, that's it. We then have about 10 different calculators and stopwatches. And we call this, THIS, "a productivity device"? WTF can we do with this brick? What is it useful for? Taking photos? Even that is slow-as-hell compared with Tytn, after trying every-single-tweak. The subject of the photo has to be perfectly still, or else everything is blurry.
And the insult is that whenever I search for something new and useful for this brick, I find new fonts, new wallpapers, new manilla tweaks, some scripts or mini-apps that change the new WM6.5 chromes appearance! These are our "apps", when iPhone has new note-taking apps, new task managers, new VNC-like applications, emulators, games, anything... And yet we bash it as a kiddie phone and we hail out Touch Pro as a "serious" device. What's serious about a phone that cost me more than my wage (yeah, it costs -that- much in Greece where I live) and all that I can do with it is stare at slightly-different-colored-menues-than-the-default-ones? That's all there is to it?
Sorry for this, and sorry for coming out as an angry SOB, but I'm up to here with it. I'd really like somebody to come up and give me some advice or tips on how to make HTCs brick useful in some way, show me that I didn't actually throw my money away on a useless gadget. 'Cause I paid for an almighty device that in theory could do almost anything. It's as "smart" as my Tytn, it's slower than it in GPS and taking Pictures, there's no touch-friendly software for it (har-har, and it's called "Touch Pro", yeah, right)... WTF am I supossed to use it for? Paperweight?
I'm all ears people. Anyone wanting to tell me how they actually use their pricey device? Why you're happy with it and wouldn't change it for anything else? Does anyone -not- have the problems I have, and what did he do to avoid them? Am I totally wrong - and why?
Best regards
Ducklord

DAMN!!
What is the word or letter limit in XDA forums?
Our Touch Pro is way better, you'll be coming back crying, yadda-yadda-yadda.

See? See how disappointed I am? I'm mr. writesalot!
Best regards
Ducklord

Still love mines....iphone in my eyes is a childs toy just a bunch of flashy things to take your mind off what it lacks....Wow my iPhone can cook dinner for me with this app,but then again to MMS i have to pay another $600 to get a new model of the phone when I just bought a 3G 6 months ago.....and I get no warranty....Tell me how the iphone is better when everytime they add new things that should've been on the phone from the start you have to buy a new model to have?MMS,Video,Teethering

Honestly, you make a lot of good points.
I've had similar experiences with people using the iphone in the same ways. It may be nothing more than an "application launcher" but the applications actually do something useful, quickly.
I don't like the iphone. I don't like apple. As a matter of fact I actually hate both of them very much... but I see your point and I'm almost as fed up as you are.
I'm looking forward to hearing what people reply with.
The Microsoft store may alleviate some of this, hopefully, but I'm not holding my breath. My plan is to wait for the next generation of phones, see if HTC still screws everyone over with drivers or other ass-hattery, and make a decision then.
Incidentally I have a Jornada 568 from 2002 that runs emulated games as well as my Fuze, plays Mp3s without stuttering (while using an external keyboard to write short stories with), plays video without tearing, and has a standard headphone jack. If I could I would just stick a phone in it and use that instead.

hey ducklord, sorry to hear about ur misery. I own a touch pro, and i find it to be quite perfect.. perhaps with a good set of ROM. Why don't you try out EnergyROM magic (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=530882)? It works like a charm for me...

Sparkz914 said:
Wow my iPhone can cook dinner for me with this app,but then again to MMS i have to pay another $600 to get a new model of the phone when I just bought a 3G 6 months ago
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what the afformentioned friend told me, "no-mms" is a problem of AT&T or some other provider that offers the iPhone in the States. To prove it, he sent me an MMS "giving me the finger". He's on Cosmote (Greek Provider), and uses a totally un-tweaked, locked, out-of-the-box iPhone.
Sparkz914 said:
.....and I get no warranty....Tell me how the iphone is better when everytime they add new things that should've been on the phone from the start you have to buy a new model to have?MMS,Video,Teethering
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I told you, no-mms is not an issue. Tethering, if you mean "having access to the Internets from your laptop through your phone" -IS- a problem, witch though can be solved by buying a USB/PCMCIA/Something GPRS modem. For about 30 euros. On the other hand, not 30, not 50, not 400 euros can make my Touch Pro something more useful than a brick. You mean, you REALLY use tethering all the time? You REALLY use video conference? The rates are sky-high here in Greece - 10 video calls would cost the same as the damn phone! Ah, and here's another point where iPhone (and almost any other device) is better: was your Touch Pro usable out of the box? Want me to point you to other posts by other users that say how much it sucked until they installed a custom Rom (and thus lost its warranty)? THIS is how a device is supposed to work? By exchanging its official warranty with a custom-cooked ROM, created by people that, up to a point, are GUESSING what-should-work (and they're doing a great job at that)... For Baal's shake, cooks, developers and lots of users are prowling the insides of other phones to find drivers witch they'll be able to tweak so that our damn brick will be able to play videoclips and long-forgotten-emulators like 3-year-old devices do! I mean, gosh, HTC should PAY XDA Developers for making their phone bearable! But, ofcourse, you are happy... No video, no speed, sluggish loading and typing, godawful GPS, no useful apps whatsoever... But you have tethering. Somehow, I don't quite believe you.
skyau said:
I've had similar experiences with people using the iphone in the same ways. It may be nothing more than an "application launcher" but the applications actually do something useful, quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AAAND, ladies and gentleman, that's the whole point. Even with all the other problems, IF, and thats the most important thing, IF our phone had some really useful AND easy-to-use apps, that other phones didn't, or IF it excelled in some way, the situation would be bearable. Its not just that its hardware sucks, its insulting that we can't run (and use) stuff on it!
And please, if any programmer is reading this, the place is called XDA Developers. Please, DEVELOP something. No, tweaking the interface isn't "developing", it's "tweaking". And although I don't know anything about programming, I'd be more than happy to "develop" graphics for a useful app.
Best regards
Ducklord

ducklord said:
the place is called XDA Developers. Please, DEVELOP something. No, tweaking the interface isn't "developing", it's "tweaking".
Best regards
Ducklord
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hahaha took the words out of my mouth... they say that WM has thousands of apps but from what i see its, 1000 half-done interfaces / 5000 tweaks, customizers, and "fixes" and 50 somewhat of apps ready to use that does at least something other than what the phone could already do but wanted to make it look "pretty" like a new contact manager, dialer, etc.
on the other hand the iphone has their own job search app, NBA play by play app, and more things other than what the phone could already do in the first place
im worried about "Marketplace" as well cuz there are multiple screen resolutions, models, and kinds of WM devices that the compatibility will not be all there when it comes to all the apps

I want to clarify that as unimpressed with the Fuze as I am, I am more than impressed and grateful for all the work done for it by the people here on XDA.
I'm glad to have a repository of software, knowledge, and development like this.
It makes me wonder what could be done with a machine that didn't need to be fixed or flashed right out of the box.
My problems with this phone stem from AT&T, HTC themselves, and to a lesser extent Microsoft. I appreciate that there's such a supportive community cleaning up these three company's messes.

skyau said:
I want to clarify that as unimpressed with the Fuze as I am, I am more than impressed and grateful for all the work done for it by the people here on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm grateful for XDA, but not for "all the work they've done for Touch Pro". No, I'm not whining or disregarding their work, it's just that I had the idea they really squeezed the life out of my Tytn, but they give me the impression that they've just touched the surface of Touch Pro.
Best regards
Ducklord

Patience
May be you just need some patience. How long has the TyTn been out compared to the TP? As for me, I have very little experience with the iPhone but my Fuze(unlocked and on T-Mobile) has very little delay in any program. I am running 1 of the best ROMs (imho), NRG's wonderful magic series.

who cares about the iphone..i just got the palm pre for my business device and man its such a relief..i still have my fuze but find myself using it less and less..its so nice to have a device not have so many issues..and just work the way i need it to..and i know webOS is still young but man i think its gonna be the next big thing..ill never give up on windows mobile though...it may be not up to the times in GUI but its an old bull and knows what its doing..but for now i need something that works with the times so my Pre is my main device for now..im still flashing every new rom NRG puts out tho on my fuze lol and ive gotten to tap into my linux side with rooting my Pre and doing all the hacks

NRGs ROMs are what my Touch Pro runs, and although quite fast in the TouchFlo 3D department, loading and running apps takes a lot of time for my taste. And just think that NRGs is one of the fastest ROMs but, still, Touch Pro can't match the usage speed of Tytn (I mean in the interface department), not even counting the 5 to 15 seconds for an app to load (5 to 10 seconds for the camera? The subject of the photo will be dead and gone until the snap is taken!). And even if you put up with this sluginess... Where are the apps? After posting the 1st message I did a visit to "the usual places" to see what's new in WM world... The joy is unimaginable! Three new versions of the same 'ol SPB software, a "smart calculator" and a stopwatch... Great...
As for the Pre, well, when your wage is arround 700-900 euros and a phone like those we're talking about costs from 600 to 1200 euros... Let's just say I'm stuck with this brick for two-three more years. Ahrgh... Teh pains...
Best regards
Ducklord
PS: How, tell me, HOW hard would it be to create two simple, decent apps, one for taking Notes and one for managing Tasks? I'd be in heaven if I found two, just these two apps, that loaded fast, where Touch Friendly and could sync with Outlook. Or some GTD apps. Or some productivity ones. That could sync with our PC. Heck, I bought a WINDOWS MOBILE device so as to sync to my WINDOWS PC. And an Apple phone has more apps that sync with outlook. And better.
PS2: Have you realized how shafted we are from anyone and any company? Evernote for WM is the only decent notes-taking app I found. And, SPECIFICALLY in WM, you have to have a data connection active to use it. No local notes and syncing later. No local storage, no local search. After we payed one wage for out phone, we have to pay another one in data costs to use it! Ack! De Happines! De Joy!

have you tried thumbcal? it is a finger friendly GUI and it replaces the wm standard calender and tasks and i believe you can take notes down too..and so if you have an exchange server setup (i use mail2web) then itl sync everything and you can sync outlook to your exchange too and there you have device to pc seemless syncing and then i used this regedit whch i made to use thumbcal when you tap a shortcut that uses a hard wired shortcut (like tf3d)

yah once htc shifted from TI OMAP to Qualcomm MSMxxxx processors things went downhill...

I dunno I have a sprint touch pro and on mighty rom wm6.5 and I love it. It's as fast as my gf's iphone. My phone is alot better than hers except playing music. Plus, I can't stand looking at the screen of iphone! The resolution is really bad and I get a headache!!

I dunno why you have to wait to load a note program because it doesn't have any loading for me. I can write and save in no time. Also, when you open the keyboard there is a shortcut for notes. You can always assign your talk button as a note program too.

I'll admit that there are some delays when switching apps, and some apps take longer to load than others.
You do realize that there are other apps out there besides what's on this site don't you? There are literally thousands of apps out there. Look at Handandgo for example.
My ROM has PocketNotepad cooked in. As soon as I open it, it opens me to a blank notepad and I can start typing right away. It opens in 1-2 seconds for me, which I think is reasonable.
I don't use tasks, so I can't really speak for that side of it.

i dont find energyroms particularly fast, not sure why everyone says its fast. it's definitely not faster compared to a tweaked lite rom. but i guess with the eye candy and full suite of apps, it's relatively fast.
I tried launching notepad and it took less than 2 secs to be able to write a new note. if it's that slow on your phone, your phone obviously has issues.

Partially agree
On the first few days I was thinking the same because I've been waiting for a phone like this for ages and here in Romania it costs more then double of an average salary so you can imagine that people get scared once they give out so much money on a single device which doesn't behave as it should. In fact it has quite a few bugs but still wouldn't change it for the iPhone...
Notes application starts in about 2 seconds for me and energyRom is decently fast - I wish I could remove that colourful taskbar though because I hate it and no one gave me an answer how to change it. Even tried one method and had to reflash the device. Anyway...
The GPS problem pisses me off because I thought it's as good as the one from the Diamond but turns out to be awful. I use IGO8 and it sucks. It locks on my position in about 10 minutes. Not good at all.
The camera is not bad, music is decent, but those aren't things that smart-phones are famous for...
Overall I am happy with this device, or should I say I have no other choice then to be happy with it and would like to thank the people from XDA Developers for their time and for correcting the errors that Microsoft should had corrected. Waiting for new apps and as ducklord said - I can help designing some of the apps so if any developer needs design, we're here. I'm not good at programming though.
Bela

When will we start getting games that don't SUCK such as envrio bear 2010?

http://www.enviro-bear.com/
godddddd look at that, I WANT that! How much longer are we gonna be stuck with card games, puzzle games, netmite or whatever that publisher is who puts out 80 thousand games a week and none of them work, etc etc
Don't recommend any games currently in the market because they all SUCK besides robo defense, and don't tell me to "just get an iphone" because I'm not buying a POS just to drive a car as a bear
ugh linux, I hate it, someone tell me to code a good game myself and then link me to where I start

steveyos said:
http://www.enviro-bear.com/
godddddd look at that, I WANT that! How much longer are we gonna be stuck with card games, puzzle games, netmite or whatever that publisher is who puts out 80 thousand games a week and none of them work, etc
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably for a long long time. Unlike Android, the iPhone OS is a single-device platform. When a game developer can expect its software to run only on a single device, its a lot easier to optimize and tailor the code. As for Android, there are three major shortcomings when it comes to games:
1. Android has a smaller marketshare. Making a high quality game takes a sizeable staff of not just programmers but artists, sound recorders, marketing, etc. Most companies are going to do what's best for their bottom line: invest in the platform that has the highest potential for return and then recycle that codebase onto other platforms where possible.
2. Android apps (for the most part) are interpreted VM apps. Interpreted languages without JIT compilers tend to run a lot slower than a native or a JIT interpreted app. Combine this with the fact that the first crop of Android devices are just inherently slower/lower specced than iPhone hardware.
3. Android is a device-agnostic platform. Meaning it can theoretically go on anything from a toaster to a x86 netbook. Even if a developer only targeted mass market Android phone devices, you're still talking about a very large spread between low end and high end hardware. The kind of games that run well on both low and high end hardware tend to be-- yup, card and puzzle games.
Although since Android is open source, the possibility for it to be customized into a gaming-phone platform could break it out of this mold. Basically, some company could take the core Android OS and then build their own single-device platform on top of that. Anyone who comes from the PalmOS world will know exactly what im saying when I say Tapwave Zodiac.
Anyway, I know you said you didn't want to hear this, and as a staunch Apple-hater it pains me to say it myself, but you should probably just get an iPhone if phone gaming is that important to you.

I'm happy with my SNES, NES and Genesis emulators. Got over 700 games for all of them on my SD Card.
What's an iPhone?

so apps is what you want
actully i dont know if this will make people happy or not but if you google on your desktop andriod games apks. you can down load them for free and use astro to install on phone games like midnight pool bowling asphalt 3 racing gutiar hero etc. i have a couple but thats just a way.... right or wrong...
steveyos said:
http://www.enviro-bear.com/
godddddd look at that, I WANT that! How much longer are we gonna be stuck with card games, puzzle games, netmite or whatever that publisher is who puts out 80 thousand games a week and none of them work, etc etc
Don't recommend any games currently in the market because they all SUCK besides robo defense, and don't tell me to "just get an iphone" because I'm not buying a POS just to drive a car as a bear
ugh linux, I hate it, someone tell me to code a good game myself and then link me to where I start
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

actualy there recently has been a lot of really good games coming out. so keep your eyes open they will be here soon enough.....

jashsu said:
Probably for a long long time. Unlike Android, the iPhone OS is a single-device platform. When a game developer can expect its software to run only on a single device, its a lot easier to optimize and tailor the code. As for Android, there are three major shortcomings when it comes to games:
1. Android has a smaller marketshare. Making a high quality game takes a sizeable staff of not just programmers but artists, sound recorders, marketing, etc. Most companies are going to do what's best for their bottom line: invest in the platform that has the highest potential for return and then recycle that codebase onto other platforms where possible.
2. Android apps (for the most part) are interpreted VM apps. Interpreted languages without JIT compilers tend to run a lot slower than a native or a JIT interpreted app. Combine this with the fact that the first crop of Android devices are just inherently slower/lower specced than iPhone hardware.
3. Android is a device-agnostic platform. Meaning it can theoretically go on anything from a toaster to a x86 netbook. Even if a developer only targeted mass market Android phone devices, you're still talking about a very large spread between low end and high end hardware. The kind of games that run well on both low and high end hardware tend to be-- yup, card and puzzle games.
Although since Android is open source, the possibility for it to be customized into a gaming-phone platform could break it out of this mold. Basically, some company could take the core Android OS and then build their own single-device platform on top of that. Anyone who comes from the PalmOS world will know exactly what im saying when I say Tapwave Zodiac.
Anyway, I know you said you didn't want to hear this, and as a staunch Apple-hater it pains me to say it myself, but you should probably just get an iPhone if phone gaming is that important to you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Yeah, sad but true
2. Yet another "WTF were they thinking?"
Now about it being able to run on low and high spec'd hardware, that sounds a bit liiiiiiikkeeeeeee......... computers. There's low specs, high specs, yet the gaming market for pc is doing fine since for the most part people who want to game buy gaming rigs, I don't see how this can't apply to the mobile world (laptops are pretty mobile that's kinda close). But yeah, google really mashed android up regardless
Gaming's not important enough to me to get an iAnything, I'm also saddened by the lack of <INMYOPINION> other apps, every time I check the market there's 50 new fart apps or HOT LADIEZ bull and you figure people would learn by now not everyone has a low enough IQ to appreciate that crap
I just don't see why we've gotta wait so long, it's not like android is the first phone to do this stuff, and it's not like it's really a new platform, but I guess it is a jumbled mess of an already jumbled mess which really put a dent in my already dented trust sheild for google

rob_h said:
I'm happy with my SNES, NES and Genesis emulators. Got over 700 games for all of them on my SD Card.
What's an iPhone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I played those consoles when they came out, I want something new and inventive on my new and inventive piece of plastic
dskyers said:
actully i dont know if this will make people happy or not but if you google on your desktop andriod games apks. you can down load them for free and use astro to install on phone games like midnight pool bowling asphalt 3 racing gutiar hero etc. i have a couple but thats just a way.... right or wrong...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pool and bowling are things you do with friends in the real world, racing too though I've been told you're not supposed to but what do cops know, and the day I play guitar hero is the day that doesn't exist
Just saying I'd like something new and inventive, not the same ol' same ol' you can get on old nokias
Freedomcaller said:
actualy there recently has been a lot of really good games coming out. so keep your eyes open they will be here soon enough.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're saying there's good games already on the market, the our opinions differ
I've got a friend with an iphone who's been coding for like 14 years, and has a six figure income thanks to it. I've almost convinced him to switch to android, since he hates the iphone and apple anyway. If anyone has any good links for android development, post 'em, and then wait because he's currently in the process of moving and I'm currently trying to stop my hands from going numb (oh the joys of growing old, my b-day's july 25th, I'll be 22 this year!) we plan on giving android a go anyway

The new palm OS isn't really better than android is it? I haven't bothered to check out the pré since I can't use mini keyboards designed for babies when companies put those on their phones I tend to automatically assume the rest of the ins and outs of the phone suck too

steveyos said:
The new palm OS isn't really better than android is it? I haven't bothered to check out the pré since I can't use mini keyboards designed for babies when companies put those on their phones I tend to automatically assume the rest of the ins and outs of the phone suck too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Better is too broad a stroke. It has strengths and weaknesses, just like every smartphone operating system out there. Even winmo has many notable positive aspects (none relating to usability, unfortunately).
You should really give those tic-tac keyboards a try. They might seem like a joke at first but i've seen folks really pound away at them. The key is that they are small enough so you don't have to move your thumbs very far to get to a key, which should mean faster typing. But the key shape and travel has to be well designed so you don't accidentally press two or three keys at once.
Don't count anything out until you've tried it.

jashsu said:
Better is too broad a stroke. It has strengths and weaknesses, just like every smartphone operating system out there. Even winmo has many notable positive aspects (none relating to usability, unfortunately).
You should really give those tic-tac keyboards a try. They might seem like a joke at first but i've seen folks really pound away at them. The key is that they are small enough so you don't have to move your thumbs very far to get to a key, which should mean faster typing. But the key shape and travel has to be well designed so you don't accidentally press two or three keys at once.
Don't count anything out until you've tried it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've had the Q and Q9a both had those midget keyboards and both made my wrists feel like they were getting run over by a monster truck with wheels dipped in sticky acid then ran over glass
Besides I'd rather stick with android because I hate it the least

Just to let you know, enviro-bear was actually a free game for the pc at start.
http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=4964.0

We could use some new games with better graffix now!!

i dont think ne good games with awsome graphics are coming out ne time soon maybe with a new android device just like they did with the iphone 3g to the iphone 3gs

Iphone rape?

Is it possible to create an android iphone emulator, like we have wine in linux, and then rape there market place, so that not only do we have all our apps available but all iphone apps as well?

you might wanna look up the abreviation "wine", it stands for Wine Is Not an Emulator, which tries to tell you that wine is not an emulator.
and no, it is not possible. too complicated and not enough computing power.

I laughed at this.

Sounds like this thread should be in a completely different forum/website
I was almost confused as to what the OP was getting at, based purely on your Thread subject title

shokka9 said:
Sounds like this thread should be in a completely different forum/website
I was almost confused as to what the OP was getting at, based purely on your Thread subject title
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that also. everybody tries to use a decent voice around here, and then this.

Maybe make a prayer to the Mobile OS GODS?

Tehmk said:
Maybe make a prayer to the Mobile OS GODS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
or sacrifice a virgin (phone)...

Even if this was EVEN possible, Apple's just going to take being raped in the ass? Don't think so.

IMO, the iPhone has an iron clad ass that can't be "raped".
I have a 32gs and just got a Hero...android has alot of catching up to do...
On a side note, Mozilla is releasing "Fennec" which will be available for WM, Android, and the iPhone that will use universal web apps...Thats the only shot at leveling the app store playing field.

Iphone has great media capability, and I admire that but I do like the way I can customise and get apps that are virtually impossible on the Apple store. Android does have catching up but it's seems to be doing that pretty fast.

I can do anything with my 3gs that i could realistically do with my hero...
wifi router, tethering, multitasking (with a much better gui), download torrents, smart dialer, folders, themes, a cracked app store, much more conveinent toggles,mobile terminal, firewall, ad-blocker, flash drive, file explorer, stream media, download youtube vids,etc...there's even a different interface for the homescreen itself available..the only main diff i see is custom roms, which isnt even any kind of set back for the iphone...
A stock iphone really cant be compared to an Android device (especially one with a custom rom)in terms of out-of-the-box-functionality and abilities, but a jailbroken iphone is right on the same playing field from a user standpoint.

Your response is correct, to a point. A jailbroken iphone is a totally different device, I can flawlessly multitask with a beautiful interface, have a flash drive app/very easy ftp access, folders on homescreen, insane themes that change the entire look or even a different homescreens all together (Pogoplank), landscape homescreen, mobile terminal, file explorer,toggles,an "app store" with only cracked apps...blah blah blah..the list goes on and on..
point being is that an out-of-the-box iPhone really cant be compared to an Android device, but once you jail break its a level playing field-from a user stand point.

i said **** in a thread once and got given out to haha you make one called i phone rape and are still going strong... kudos!

civicvx94 said:
IMO, the iPhone has an iron clad ass that can't be "raped".
I have a 32gs and just got a Hero...android has alot of catching up to do...
On a side note, Mozilla is releasing "Fennec" which will be available for WM, Android, and the iPhone that will use universal web apps...Thats the only shot at leveling the app store playing field.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fennec will never be released on the iPhone
Apple never would accept it to the App Store like they did it on Opera

Question From Iphone 4 User

Hello all, Im currently using an Iphone 4, its a great phone, dont get me wrong, but I hate the way apple have such tight control over it. Im looking at buying an HTC HD7, but haven't used the phone yet. Im just really looking advice from anyone who has used at lenght, or has an Iphone 4, and is moving to Windows Phone 7.
Cheers

Having just moved over from an iPhone 4, I'm in a pretty good position to give you some info.
1. Phone itself is great (I found the iPhone4's screen beautiful, but way too small to be practical for my needs)
2. The WP7 interface is MUCH better than the grid on iOS4, especially the LIVE tiles.
3. WP7 is still pretty locked down, but I can see that changing. If you're on a none jailbroken iP4, there's not much difference.
4. App amount seems to be growing by the day, but as this is a fresh OS there's nothing on it yet compared to the IP4. However, the apps that are on WP7 are awesome. The Facebook app is the best Facebook app on any phone I've used.
5. The execution and intergration of facebook, LIVE, Messenger etc is VERY well done on this phone. If you are a social person, you'll love it.
6. There are some limitations, some of which are annoying and will take some adapting.
Overall, I think the OS-side of things is superior to an untouched iP4's iOS4. It does need work, but the foundations are solid. Apps will come (Especially with the Dev budget MS has thrown at the WP7 platform)
As with all early adapters, you'll experience some frustrating times and a lack of features, so it depends what you're after really.

Thanks for the super fast reply. What are the limitations you talk about? I find the Iphone a Cr&p phone, but pretty good for internet surfing, that is what I do mostly, with a little bit of angry birds thrown in for good measure. The only other program use a lot is Nike plus for tracking runs, but I suppose it didnt take long for Android to have something similar, so I imagine Windows phone 7 will have a similar app soon.

JamDonot said:
Thanks for the super fast reply. What are the limitations you talk about? I find the Iphone a Cr&p phone, but pretty good for internet surfing, that is what I do mostly, with a little bit of angry birds thrown in for good measure. The only other program use a lot is Nike plus for tracking runs, but I suppose it didnt take long for Android to have something similar, so I imagine Windows phone 7 will have a similar app soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My surfing experience so far has been good. Again, there's no flash or silverlight yet and a lack of HTML 5. However, Adobe have confirmed Flash is coming for WP7, we just need an official statement from MS now....I'm predicting it will be in the Jan 2011 update along with Copy & paste.
Like I say, the apps are popping up fairly quickly to say the least. If you like the occassional game, the HD7 screen real-estate is a big plus there. The quality of the games on WP7 looks very promising indeed (In my opinion, better than iP4 games, and this is Dev's first releases!)
Rovio will no doubt release Angry birds on the platform as well.
As for the tracker, I haven't seen one in the marketplace as of yet, but that's because I've been messing around too much with the Xbox LIVE games

Microsoft don't seem to be as controlling as Apple and so within a few updates you should be more free than if you were using an iPhone.
The fact that HTC & Samsung are making the phones is always a plus as then you have a choice instead of having to pick from one phone.

Defo think im going to give the HTC HD7 a go. Worst case scenario I buy a Ipod touch to use the stuff I was used to. I always adapt early, just sometimes I get frustrated with slow progress. Hope the microsoft app store doesnt go like the palm pre did thought.

How is the screen in comparison ? I am hoping its better than the Evos. I know it won't be as nice as the Vibrants just dont want the washed look.

risq said:
My surfing experience so far has been good. Again, there's no flash or silverlight yet and a lack of HTML 5. However, Adobe have confirmed Flash is coming for WP7, we just need an official statement from MS now....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How MS is going to allow flash when they moved away from ActiveX, and I haven't heard they would want to introduce it - it is by far the easiest transport to deliver spyware, malware and viruses to your device.