Related
Can we make this a sticky post where the end status of the Kaiser Video driver development stands?
Where does it stand? Has anyone started work on it? How do we get ahold of the information required for developing the driver? Can we determine if the development for this driver is even possible? (Is the hardware completely set up to handle it? Maybe there are hardware design hurdles which makes it impossible to be done - that HTC knows about but cannot or will not currently tell us? Even if the chipset is up to it, maybe there is some other piece of hardware missing like an additional circuit left out? How can we determine this for sure and get the work on this started?
Let's make this a sticky post and only those with specific information should post here...
What pieces of hardware are required for a developer to work on this driver development issue? I am willing to part with my older units (for a price, I was going to sell them) if that would help the effort: (O2 XDA/O2 XDA II/Cingular 8525) - what specific models support this chipset so we know what hardware can be used for the development effort?
There are three sticky posts on the subject of video drivers already - are these needs not met by the Video driver project thread - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=355345 ?
But not the current status
But not the current status in one place that is easy to find. Maybe there should be a sticky post with only one postingvand only updated - not added to - from time to time - only by the forum admin...
Developing new drivers from the ground up won't happen anytime soon. It's a massive undertaking and I bet much too much even for the fine people here.
Even "stealing" drivers from similair hardware has proven very difficult, though it's most probably possible.
I think our best chance would be if HTC releases a device with MSM 7200/7500 and they deliver it with drivers, then it would probably be a fairly easy task.
As for the hardware the only two things that come to mind would be if HTC bought cost reduced chipsets with non-functional Imageon hardware (if for an example there's a problem with yields and Qualcomm has a stock of partially broken chipsets) or if Qualcomm has different SKUs of the same chipset which they artificially handicap by disbling certain hardware (and thus ell them cheaper).
None of the two theories above are that far fetched actually.
Hardware manufacturers often artificially create multiple SKUs by disabling features in a high end product. (Perfect sample would be CD/DVD burners that are firmware capped to a lower speed that the hardware can actually manage.)
Sma ething happens with videocards. When Radeon 9500 was launched the chip on those boards were actually 9700 chips but with non-functional hardware units (and when ATi were out of those they actually started capping 9700 chips that were 100 % operational).
As for the exact current status I believe the only person who really gave this a try was Chainfire who tried to make the LG KS20 drivers work on a Kaiser without any luck. SO I guess the status is still att 0 % so to speak.
KruseLudsMobile said:
But not the current status in one place that is easy to find. Maybe there should be a sticky post with only one postingvand only updated - not added to - from time to time - only by the forum admin...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, thats a good idea.
Really there are way too many threads dealing with these issues. Two or three new ones at least pop up every day. As far as I know, there is currently nobody actually working on the drivers. I was, but after putting about a 100 hours in porting the LG KS20 drivers, ultimately without success, I focussed my efforts towards the website. Porting these drivers is most likely not impossible, but it's not an easy task and I personally only know of one person here on XDA who may possibly pull it off and this person does not have one of the affected devices, and even if she did, it might still take a long time to do.
In the meantime, progress is being made with the website, news coverage everywhere, and a lot going on behind the scenes that we honestly cannot say 'out loud'.
Let's first see what the update HTC keeps telling us about brings. And if you need to get rid of bounty money, I would say giving a fair part of it to those of us who have put all this effort and time into making it happen would not be unfair
Chainfire said:
Really there are way too many threads dealing with these issues. Two or three new ones at least pop up every day. As far as I know, there is currently nobody actually working on the drivers. I was, but after putting about a 100 hours in porting the LG KS20 drivers, ultimately without success, I focussed my efforts towards the website. Porting these drivers is most likely not impossible, but it's not an easy task and I personally only know of one person here on XDA who may possibly pull it off and this person does not have one of the affected devices, and even if she did, it might still take a long time to do.
In the meantime, progress is being made with the website, news coverage everywhere, and a lot going on behind the scenes that we honestly cannot say 'out loud'.
Let's first see what the update HTC keeps telling us about brings. And if you need to get rid of bounty money, I would say giving a fair part of it to those of us who have put all this effort and time into making it happen would not be unfair
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Click to collapse
not enough threads IMO
Guys, I can make this thread sticky too if you promise it'll be a catch-all thread, eferring to all the other, referred threads.
I know the good people of class action drivers and also our community here at xda are working hard on getting the video drivers up and running and have come a very long way. I truly am impressed and I appreciate everything that is being done.
I guess my question is more of an opinion from everyone, do you believe that the drivers will ever take shape to their full potential and actually push the kaiser to where it should have been? Also, I know HTC said they will not update the drivers, but do you think one day they may backtrack and fix what they should have fixed long ago?
noktem said:
I know HTC said they will not update the drivers, but do you think one day they may backtrack and fix what they should have fixed long ago?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you really think they would go back to something that now has 2 new generations in front of it? Nope, the Kaiser is only a mark in history for them now, end of line device forgotten back there. Except maybe for the repair returns that they might see for some more time...
Of course I understand, why would someone head back in time and fix something that is to them "outdated", but I also know that HTC should know that the Kaiser has a big following behind it and potentially could make profit, because I for one, if they would offer it for 5 dollars or even 10 dollars for video driver updates, would gladly pay. But I understand your logic, just it has always aggravated me how someone can release something that has so much unlocked power.
Even if they could do some development and make a little money selling an upgrade to some, they'll make a whole load more having their engineers work on the future devices and keeping up with competitor's offerings instead of looking back...
HTC made a decision to release the Kaiser without those drivers for whatever reason, be it technical, commercial, marketing or whatever...
The "unlocked" power has always happened and always will, the Kaiser's chipset also supports video out but that is not implemented, the Hermes supported GPS but it wasn't used, those are hardware related that would cost parts to make them usable. The software costs money to be developed, so it comes down to the same.
Much worse, I had a Motorola phone VERY long ago that did not have storage memory on the phone, no clock/alarm and was missing several other features, while those could be enabled just by setting the corresponding bits in the configuration memory with a hacked cable... They even had 2 versions of the exact same phone, with $100 difference, that were totally identical except for a couple more features being enabled (they were running the same software and you could enable the functions on the cheaper one with the cable).
But anyway, this subject has been beaten to death so many times... useless thread.
Agreed. This has been discussed in numerous threads before, please read those discussions and post any new musings there.
Ta
Dave
First of all, I've got to say that Android is awesome.
Now here's the thing
I enthusiastically bought a phone with, among many other fantastic things:
1. 800x480 resolution
2. 512mb RAM
3. 32mb storage capability (phones supposed to format 32mb)
4. A high end screen ( that I now understand to be 3 years old), for what should be smooth scrolling
5. stable 3G connectivity
6. And I assumed the gallery would be at least as quality as the older firmware versions. In truth its still solid but its fair to expect firmware updates to, at the very least, not make stuff worse...
Meanwhile the froyo update is going to "free up additional RAM" and be able to format said SD cards. Don't get me wrong I don't expect Android to fix the ridiculous antennae placement or make the cameras flash more useful. Design defects are certainly tolerable and sometimes even expected, but only to a point.
I feel like broadly experienced bugs and specification shortcomings should be fixed ASAP.
I love that Android is going to give us additional, awesome features in future updates. But I don't think we should have to wait for bug fixes while Android packages them as new features in a forthcomimg update, as though they are doing us a favor. Android can take as long as they want to give us new features and I'm grateful for them and I won't complain about the wait.
But I must insist that my phone have the basic functions I purchased within at most a couple of months. We are talking about solving problems not adding features. Shouldn't the priority of the updates reflect that?
I don't know if they've released the changelog or not, but let's hope for several minor upgrades to come with it...
What's the question?
j.bruha said:
What's the question?
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Click to collapse
-> should we really have to wait for froyo?
All I want is my ram. I'm very upset over that.
AndroidPerson said:
First of all, I've got to say that Android is awesome.
Now here's the thing
I enthusiastically bought a phone with, among many other fantastic things:
1. 800x480 resolution
2. 512mb RAM
3. 32mb storage capability (phones supposed to format 32mb)
4. A high end screen ( that I now understand to be 3 years old), for what should be smooth scrolling
5. stable 3G connectivity
6. And I assumed the gallery would be at least as quality as the older firmware versions. In truth its still solid but its fair to expect firmware updates to, at the very least, not make stuff worse...
Meanwhile the froyo update is going to "free up additional RAM" and be able to format said SD cards. Don't get me wrong I don't expect Android to fix the ridiculous antennae placement or make the cameras flash more useful. Design defects are certainly tolerable and sometimes even expected, but only to a point.
I feel like broadly experienced bugs and specification shortcomings should be fixed ASAP.
I love that Android is going to give us additional, awesome features in future updates. But I don't think we should have to wait for bug fixes while Android packages them as new features in a forthcomimg update, as though they are doing us a favor. Android can take as long as they want to give us new features and I'm grateful for them and I won't complain about the wait.
But I must insist that my phone have the basic functions I purchased within at most a couple of months. We are talking about solving problems not adding features. Shouldn't the priority of the updates reflect that?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Other than the mem/kernel thing....are you expecting some kind of handjob update?
don't we have the additional RAM in cyanogen mod?
muncheese said:
Other than the mem/kernel thing....are you expecting some kind of handjob update?
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Click to collapse
Hj's are cool I guess.
But If you were told the nexus one had 256mb ram and like 600x300 resolution and so on, would you have so excitedly purchased the phone? I sure wouldn't have...
I thnk we should have the basic functions the phone is supposed to have. I know its early but only ram and SD card formatting are mentioned in froyo. Shouldn't the phone have the resolution that it says it has, the ram that it says it has, and the other basic functions that it says it has prior to fun, cool, exciting feature additions? And isn't weird that Google hasnt even mentioned any intention to fix the phone so that it meets its own spec sheet? We aren't talking about demanding flash or decent video playback support or a UI overhaul. We are just talking about features and functions we were told we were buying.
Should we really still be waiting for that? I feel like we shouldn't
But the phone does have 512MB of memory and it does have 800x400 resolution. Crack it open and take a look at the parts yourself.
Sure they might not have complete software support for everything at launch and that can be frustration for some, but as far as I am concerned they put more hardware into the phone than they could use at that point for future proofing reasons. I'm happy about that.
Even after they enable all of the memory it still probably won't be used by anyone.
AndroidPerson said:
Hj's are cool I guess.
But If you were told the nexus one had 256mb ram and like 600x300 resolution and so on, would you have so excitedly purchased the phone? I sure wouldn't have...
I thnk we should have the basic functions the phone is supposed to have. I know its early but only ram and SD card formatting are mentioned in froyo. Shouldn't the phone have the resolution that it says it has, the ram that it says it has, and the other basic functions that it says it has prior to fun, cool, exciting feature additions? And isn't weird that Google hasnt even mentioned any intention to fix the phone so that it meets its own spec sheet? We aren't talking about demanding flash or decent video playback support or a UI overhaul. We are just talking about features and functions we were told we were buying.
Should we really still be waiting for that? I feel like we shouldn't
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When I received the phone I was ecstatic. That's before realizing half the ram was disabled.
I wasn't really planning on running official roms anyways, so maybe that differs for me. So I've never really been of the mind of "waiting for google to do their thing". I'm a tweaker by nature, from my phones, to my vehicles, to my shoelaces.
As far as the "false resolution" of the oled displays. Lol, you can't expect new tech to be measured by old standards.
PrawnPoBoy said:
Even after they enable all of the memory it still probably won't be used by anyone.
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Click to collapse
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
It would be nice if android were proper open source, instead of open source when google feels like it. For example, 'Firefox', as soon as development starts on a new version, it is completely open from the start. Though we are dealing with two different companies, with different objectives. Mozilla wants a free and open internet for the sake of a free and open internet, Google wants a free and open internet because it is good for the bottom line. In the end, both benefit me.
liam.lah said:
"640K ought to be enough for anybody."
It would be nice if android were proper open source, instead of open source when google feels like it. For example, 'Firefox', as soon as development starts on a new version, it is completely open from the start. Though we are dealing with two different companies, with different objectives. Mozilla wants a free and open internet for the sake of a free and open internet, Google wants a free and open internet because it is good for the bottom line. In the end, both benefit me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait.... I was under the impression that when they say 'extra ram' its freeing up RAM from the OS, not physically?
Is someone saying we have the same amount of RAM as in the desire then? :/ (that f'ed up number, like 560 or something)
Hey all!
Sorry for bringing this up again, but i just cannot accept it. There are a lot of devices using qualcomm's msm7xxx chipsets, take a look here:
http://www.pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdamaster&posted=1&cpu=a7200
Seriously, are drivers missing in all of them, or is it so hard to port it to kaiser?
htcclassaction.com has no news since releasing the htc-ca open gl se drivers in 2008, but still the device even with them suffers from severe performance issues. Still no 2d drivers, and still no direct 3d drivers. What is going on? As if in 3 years it has not been possible to fix the damn drivers??? Are there no good developers that have the phone that would be able to fix this? if htc can do it in a couple of months, couldn't atleast a group of developers do it in 3 years?
And the device is still in production, so there will probably be more people that buy this phone 'couse of it's amazing power and keyboard, and to be honest, get a piece of s***...
Moved as not ROM Development.
If you search there are threads that will state why we never got full driver support, your question is it hard? Course it is...
Look @ how much work went into class action.
Kaiser isn't still in production if they are available there old stock
Also how many bits of software really require the drivers many of us are satisfied even without them, especially since the advancement in nk.exe where we can get a more used resource RAM
Put the dog to rest!
Old stock? I am not sure of that.
http://www.htc.com/www/product/tytnii/overview.html
And after all, if it wouldn't be in production, i think that the entire tytn 2 sub(sub)forum would be in legacy device's subforum
EDIT: and can you post any links to why we will never get the drivers please? my searching skills are low, i cant find anything
award982 said:
Old stock? I am not sure of that.
http://www.htc.com/www/product/tytnii/overview.html
And after all, if it wouldn't be in production, i think that the entire tytn 2 sub(sub)forum would be in legacy device's subforum
EDIT: and can you post any links to why we will never get the drivers please? my searching skills are low, i cant find anything
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The phone is not in production same as Touch Pro/Touch Cruise and more, there were lesser number user devices placed in the legacy section as it goes on if a forum is still used..
http://www.gsmarena.com/htc_tytn_ii-2024.php
see the status...
This phone is old, who cares. The drivers were never made because it wasn't worth anyones time, people moved on to better things so the money wasn't there. Just leave it alone.
is there any way to install wp8 on a wp7 phone?
Really ? Did you do any homework or read any of the blogs about Windows Phone 8 ? I guess not. A key word that you should know is "search" as you would of found your answer.
To answer your question, NO. Window Phone 7 users will get a upgrade to Windows Phone 7.8 and it will give you the new start menu of Windows Phone 8 but, nothing else.
Windows phone 7.8
There will be update to wp7/wp7.5 called wp7.8 and you have same interface than Windows phone 8
kilus said:
is there any way to install wp8 on a wp7 phone?
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Click to collapse
I'm pretty sure we'll be able to put some sort of custom ROM WP8 on a WP7 device.
Other than the secure boot, which should hopefully be easily turned off, I haven't seen anything which would prevent the OS from running on a WP7 device.
DavidinCT said:
Really ? Did you do any homework or read any of the blogs about Windows Phone 8 ? I guess not. A key word that you should know is "search" as you would of found your answer.
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Click to collapse
really? did you do any homework or read any blogs about how to get laid as a nerd? i guess not. a key word you should know is "balls," as you'd require a pair as a real man and help you stop masterbating at online porn, move out your mom's house, and finally get laid at 43 years of age.
hetwo said:
There will be update to wp7/wp7.5 called wp7.8 and you have same interface than Windows phone 8
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Click to collapse
thanks hetwo.
gedmurphy said:
I'm pretty sure we'll be able to put some sort of custom ROM WP8 on a WP7 device.
Other than the secure boot, which should hopefully be easily turned off, I haven't seen anything which would prevent the OS from running on a WP7 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank you too.. its good knowing there are some decent intelligent people out there willing to answer questions without having to be a disrespectful troll.
Hey guys,
Firstly please don't get this wp8 forum off to a bad start and keep flaming each other? Respect each other and the rules please :cyclops:
Secondly, from my understanding current hardware specs of wp7 phones are not high enough, do not meet, wp8 requirements so the answer is probably no. The official line is a definate no, wp7 devices, even new ones like lumia 900 will not get wp8 update
Hopefully soon wp8 on WP7 by Custom Rom
timmymarsh said:
Secondly, from my understanding current hardware specs of wp7 phones are not high enough, do not meet, wp8 requirements so the answer is probably no. The official line is a definate no, wp7 devices, even new ones like lumia 900 will not get wp8 update
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Click to collapse
Definitely not via an update, that's clearly been addressed by Microsoft. However existing WP7 hardware is surely powerful enough to run WP8. The single core processor is definitely not a problem, and low end WP8 devices are looking to be lower in specs than current WP7 devices.
I'm no expert in usermode on WP, but I know the NT kernel extremely well, and it's more than capable of running on our hardware.
Some body will hack it
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Only problem maybe drivers. It is Microsoft way to release oem from out of warranty obligation to keep an outdated product updated.
Who wants to sell one shirt and that person never buys another because it last too long. I understand wanted to save money. But how can they keep making money if the people that work for them is trying to make something2 years old work off of the mere 500$ the phone is worth. Hey has to make money or they will disappear like farmer jack and circuit city
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
kilus said:
really? did you do any homework or read any blogs about how to get laid as a nerd? i guess not. a key word you should know is "balls," as you'd require a pair as a real man and help you stop masterbating at online porn, move out your mom's house, and finally get laid at 43 years of age.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha. If you read ANY PLACE on this site, it says to SEARCH before posting.
You must not know how to read. This has been a major topic of discussion over every Windows Phone 7 related site.
It does not take a geek or loser like yourself just to spend 2 min reading before posting a subject that has been posted everywhere.
The new upgrade goes to the NT kernal over the WinCE one. That does take more horsepower than current devices can do. It will have native support for C++ and a lot of other modern tech (NFC and others). The current chipset in current devices will not be able to handle it with reasonable performance. As I understand it.
IF some hacker was to create a rom for a current device, it would not support more than 1/2 of the OS and the performace would not be anything worth using unless they stripped everything out.
It's really questionable if a hacker will be able to get it working on current devices and what type of performance. If you really want to know the changes, it's a little long but, it really shows what it can and will do...
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit
It's the full streaming event, and it's almost 2 hours but, it's impressive and I can see why they went this route.
DavidinCT said:
The new upgrade goes to the NT kernal over the WinCE one. That does take more horsepower than current devices can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely not true. The NT kernel will run on seriously low specs without any issues. It'll happily run on an old pentium 233 and 32MB RAM without any notable issues in performance. In fact,WP7 hardware is sufficient to run full blown Windows 7, not just the NT6 kernel (assuming the processor was x86 and not ARMv7)
I don't se drivers being a huge blocker as the number of drivers for NT6 is huge, and even in the worst case scenario any drivers we may be missing can be written.
It'll be interesting to see how quickly someone gets WP8 running on a WP7 device.
gedmurphy said:
Absolutely not true. The NT kernel will run on seriously low specs without any issues. It'll happily run on an old pentium 233 and 32MB RAM without any notable issues in performance. In fact,WP7 hardware is sufficient to run full blown Windows 7, not just the NT6 kernel (assuming the processor was x86 and not ARMv7)
I don't se drivers being a huge blocker as the number of drivers for NT6 is huge, and even in the worst case scenario any drivers we may be missing can be written.
It'll be interesting to see how quickly someone gets WP8 running on a WP7 device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a good question. As I got that from a Tweet by someone at MS. As I understand Windows 8 has a updated kernel that they are using on WP8. Not sure on it, as I thought it was the same as you (I'm a 20 year Windows Systems admin, I know the NT kernel COULD run on 286 machines if needed, not sure on the updated one, just going on what I heard).
It might of been the option of forcing users to have not hard reset their phones (like going from 32bit to 64-bit, no upgrade path) and that would cause a big impact on customer reports. As I have understood from watching the whole MS thing on it, it came down to performance problems that ended it before it started. Some chipsets to support the new OS are not on WP7 devices, so it limits the options current users can take advantage of.
It's not just about the devices and the end users , its' about the PR nightmare. Any press is good but, bad press is a whole different story. In a year or 2 no one will even talk about this. Android does this all the time and even Apple did it to their first gen device.
Who knows. Maybe one of the great hackers here or DFT will make it run on a current device. It makes me question it though.
As long as WP7 devices have been out, Not one WM 6.5 devices (not incuding the HD2 as it was used as a test device for MS on WP7 and drivers were leaked) got a WP7 upgrade OR No Android device got WP7 or the other way around. There are plenty of Android devices or even a handful of 6.5 devices that could of run WP7 fine.
The hackers can do only so much but, time will tell, I just wonder IF POSSABLE (with out MS), just how long it would take.
It will be interesting to see tho...
I do know I am about 95% sure I will be buying one on release, just depending on the models on release.
The reason for almost none of the 6.5 devices running WP7 could be that most of the old devices running 6.5 didn´t have the needed display (capacitive and the WP7 resolution) or processor. Take the Toshiba TG01: resistive display and higher resolution.
btw....moved to Q&A:good:
this will be possible atleast for hd7 and focus 1st gen:good:
hackarchive said:
this will be possible atleast for hd7 and focus 1st gen:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for hd7? i see...
hackarchive said:
this will be possible atleast for hd7 and focus 1st gen:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just wondering... Where did you get your info on that ? Your HD7 and focus besides the display and case is almost like every other Windows Phone 7 device (standard hardware across all models).
Even though it has been clearly said by Microsoft that NO 1st or 2nd gen devices will get the update you seem to think the HD7 will.
Maybe it's me but, I'm smelling a little BS here....
Unless Microsoft says that they will be updating or DFT decides to dig in, your not getting a upgrade on any first or 2nd gen device and that includes the HD7 and Focus.
The problem with the kernel is not that it by itself would need that much power to run but rather that they would have to develop loads of drivers for it to work, as they would not be able to use those that already exist for Windows CE.
A bigger problem might be the Bootloader process. The NT Kernel at least on ARM requires an UEFI firmware which is likely to be pretty different from the bootloaders we currently have on our phones.
So the steps would be:
- Develop an UEFI firmware for current WP7 hardware (HSPL needed because it would replace the old bootloader) - including UEFI hardware drivers
- Develop drivers for the chipsets from scratch
- Find out on how many hardware characteristics Microsoft chose to rely that are simply not there on old devices
I'm not saying that it is impossible to do or that it won't ever be done but I guess until it's done almost no one will still be using such an old phone.
RE:
DavidinCT said:
Hahaha. If you read ANY PLACE on this site, it says to SEARCH before posting.
You must not know how to read. This has been a major topic of discussion over every Windows Phone 7 related site.
It does not take a geek or loser like yourself just to spend 2 min reading before posting a subject that has been posted everywhere.
The new upgrade goes to the NT kernal over the WinCE one. That does take more horsepower than current devices can do. It will have native support for C++ and a lot of other modern tech (NFC and others). The current chipset in current devices will not be able to handle it with reasonable performance. As I understand it.
IF some hacker was to create a rom for a current device, it would not support more than 1/2 of the OS and the performace would not be anything worth using unless they stripped everything out.
It's really questionable if a hacker will be able to get it working on current devices and what type of performance. If you really want to know the changes, it's a little long but, it really shows what it can and will do...
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit
It's the full streaming event, and it's almost 2 hours but, it's impressive and I can see why they went this route.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Helooo???
Low end WP8 devices will have lower HW specs than some current WP7 devices.
WP8 could run very well on a focus s or HD7 or any other.
There will be custom roms for many current devices, there are many smart guys here that I'm sure will try to do this. Let's hope they will manage to do it.