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GPS without 3G/edge?

i bought a tilt yesterday and it is my first smartphone. I already flashed it to Dutty's v1.1. With my plan i rely on wifi so i didnt get any data plan.
Without 3g, edge, gprs how can i get GPS to work with my TILT that doesnt cost money?
Anyone want to help a noobout?? If you could teach me some stuff PM!!!

GPS does not cost money because it doesn't uses GPRS/EDGES etc - unless you install and run QuickGPS (or similar). GPS is only receiving freely available satellite info
QuickGPS is a service that helps the GPS unit get its first fix quicker and this uses the internet and hence GPRS/EDGE - but it is optional, so if you are prepared to wait a minute of two to get a good GPS fix, then GPS will not cost you a penny.

how do you get the free gps though?

Could you elaborate a bit? What do you mean by "how do you get the free gps though?". Because as Weasel said, GPS IS Free. Do you mean how do you get free software (i.e. TOMTOM)?

unk3 said:
how do you get the free gps though?
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Click to collapse
You already have it, in form of your GPS receiver in your device. If you are wondering how you can get programs/maps to run your GPS with, well there is really just one option for you:
Buy some software! The market is flooded with GPS software, to name a few:
TomTom
iGo
Garmin XT
Destinator
MioMap
and so on...
If you had a data plan, you could use Google Maps in combination with your GPS (google maps is free).
Alternatively, if you are more about using your GPS functionality for hiking, off-road travel,... then I recommend:
GPSTuner 5.2 (excellent software for off-road)
Track-Me (You get this in the Kaiser > Kaiser forum. Great piece of software, and so far it's free)
Either way, you'll need software to make use of the hardware.
Hope this helps a bit.
H.

A good free option would be MGMaps, which uses stored maps and doesn't need to transfer data (however it can do it if you wish).

i guess what im trying to say is, Where can i download "MAPs" or the software that has maps for free.
I tried using googlemaps, but i can only use it when im in a wifi area lol

AGPS - any proof of it working/providing benefit? (new topic - pls read!)

Now please no groaning when you see this topic. I know the GPS has been hammered to death on these forums; this post is my vein attempt to see if one particular area of interest of mine has at all moved forward.
(let's also side-step the whole "does your GPS lag?" issue here too!)
(..and, for clarify, I'm referring to AGPS as in the use of the mobile phone network to 'assist' positioning by use of triangulation in areas of poor/no GPS reception, and NOT the use of QuickGPS to download current sat. info in an attempt to get a quicker initial fix)
I used to use TomTom Navigator v7.450; it worked (of a fashion! ) although one specific thing that never worked was that whenever AGPS was enabled (using AdvancedConfig or similar) TomTom would get a signal and then immediately drop it again.. on/off on/off etc.. the fix being to disable AGPS.
I must admit I'm suspicious about HTC having their stock ROMs with AGPS disabled by default - especially as this was initially a 'selling point' of the device and part of the sales blurb ("not only does it have GPS but really good GPS using AGPS".. oh the irony!) - have they themselves ever got it to work?!?!
Now TomTom Navigator v7.910 is out (have just installed it myself, currently waiting for an updated map to download). I have seen it muted that this now works with AGPS on the Diamond or maybe the Pro (ie. someone reports the above bug, yet claims it now works having moved to v7.910). Can anyone else confirm this? More importantly, can anyone confirm AGPS has given the Diamond any GPS-related benefit what-so-ever?? (ie. great if it doesn't stop TomTom working anymore, but does it actually improve it like it should?).
I'll of course try it out myself later today or over the weekend and report back.
Hope this makes sense.. cheers.

just tried TomTom 7.910 (9185) with AGPS enabled, and cant say i noticed much difference.
seems the same now with it enable or dissabled. Cant be sure tho, havent done a long journey yet.
Will update later/tomorrow.

mugglesquop said:
just tried TomTom 7.910 (9185) with AGPS enabled, and cant say i noticed much difference.
seems the same now with it enable or disabled. Cant be sure tho, haven't done a long journey yet.
Will update later/tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for taking the time etc.
Interesting, because..
I've just taken a wonder outside and found I'm still getting the signal constantly being lost bug (looking at the screen that shows the sat. bars I have a good signal for a few seconds, then this goes and 'No GPS device' is displayed, then good signal back again and so on).
On this Diamond I'm using ROM 1.93.401.2 the the supplied radio (1.0.25.05), as I suspected this 'improvement' (potentially) noticed by you/others is more likely a result of a ROM/radio update and not a TomTom software update (guessing this AGPS bug isn't the first thing you try after flashing is it?).
Hmm..
nb. I'm using the exact same version/build of TomTom as you

hmmm... yeh, i'm going on a 60+ mile journey later, so will have a play.
Using Dutty's 3.4 ROM and Radio is BS14...

I thought that the whole point of AGPS is so you could help you get a GPS fix when indoors. Which I always thought was an unusual selling point when the entire purpose of GPS software is to help you find your way in the outdoors. Perhaps it could be more useful for those new tagging services that are popping up.
Anyhow I've been running a fairly recent version of iGo8 using Dutty's Rom 3.3 and 3.4 (both with that new radio).
With AGPS turned off, GPS signal is quickly attained and holds strong outdoors. Nothing indoors, naturally.
With AGPS turned on (via Duttys "AGPS Settings" utility), GPS signal is as quickly attained and flickers fully on then fully off, repeating constantly. When indoors, nothing at all.
So, with iGo8, AGPS seems to be a non-runner.
By the way, I once read that AGPS has to be configured to your particular mobile provider. Perhaps that's the issue?

Same here, with a-gps enabled signal drops constantly

after my journey yesterday, had the same problems as above.
tried with TomTom 7 and iGo8

I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.

ben cole said:
I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, I think this is thanks to googles effort, not AGPS... Google uses Google Gears API which can position you by using basestations and SSIDs.
AGPS is correcting/updating the GPS data with actual almanac data sent from you mobile provider...
Pitchb3nd said:
Same here, with a-gps enabled signal drops constantly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me, anyone being able to use TomTom and AGPS without losing signal periodically?

ben cole said:
I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah Google Maps does this on its own without having AGPS enabled on the Diamond. I believe AGPS is supposed to be more accurate than 1000m - 1500m though.
Oh and I believe the way that Google Maps gets its position depends on your mobile provider. I used to get the message "your location is not available" constantly on my network but one day (simultaneously as the iPhone was released in my country), the location was available. So I believe that the network flicked a switch for this technology to work.

AGps and TomTom
Hi,
agps have need to run to:
1) Carrier to inform MobilePhone here is (Is a Base Station Issue)
2) Public information about position
On mobilephone if is enable i think is need to have different information, and tomtom have old pattern to process agps information.
With googlemaps have new process and can use.
With my diamond agps run (googlemaps)
Cityhunter71

Please, don't mix the Google technology and A-GPS. They have nothing in common.
Google maintains their own privately held database of GSM-cellids which GMM can query to determine your position based on the current cellid.
A-GPS is a technology where the GSM-basestation itself receives GPS-satellitedata and relays it to the device. With this additional data, the GPS-receiver in the device is supposed to achieve a faster fix.
Have fun!

a-gps works with 7.450
i remember once that it was taking forever for the satelites to be found yet is was updating my postion on the map constantly via a-gps (which im sure was enabled by default in stock rom as ive never changed it)
a-gps is useful inside because you usually have your phone with you and to find a route, you need gps

Apologies for my erroneous post.
I realised my error today when I installed Google Maps on an ageing Blackberry I had unlocked to play with.
Started it up and lo and behold there was my location....thought I'd better head back here to suffer my shame ...LOL

Thanks for the input guys.
So - in summary:
Even with later ROMS / radios / software applications, there is still yet to be seen any benefit from the Diamond (theoretically) having an A-GPS capability.
RUBBISH!!
I personally subscribe to the theory that there is a missing link between the A-GPS driver type software and an info feed from the likes of the network operator, ie. it's all very well it picking up info on the network but without a back-end database to translate this it's useless.
As far as purpose goes.. I personally think A-GPS sounds on paper to be a great idea. Not a replacement for GPS, nor to be used exclusively indoors, but a good aid/starting point. For example, if I'm sitting in an unfamiliar office in London and wanted to use TomTom to navigate me a route to where I want to get to, A-GPS could provide TomTom with a rough starting point. Similarly, I often find myself launch a nav program (when I'm lost!) and standing there for up to 5 mins waiting for a fix.. at least this would give me an approximation from which I could probably work out myself where I was from looking around me. In my mind when you first fire up TomTom on the Diamond A-GPS should simply put you in the right postcode and start doing its stuff while the GPS seeks out its signal, and not still show me as being either at Home or its last known destination. But in any event - it seems not to work!! Bugger!!

I thought that aGPS was also to help hold a GPS signal when in tunnels, canyons, heavy forest cover (ie.Redwoods in this area, many tower to well over 300 feet!) or any situation where the signal from the satellites may be impaired, or even blocked completely.

Im running Duttys 3.5 and with AGPS on I will get a signal for 10 seconds, then it goes for a second, then back for 10. then gone. Turned AGPS off and all is well.

I can confirm that AGPS does work, some parts here in Finland it works and someplaces it does that on off thingy. once when I was just playing with my tomtom it got signal where it would never get it without it. but mostly here it doesnt work properly so i disable it.
But in Helsinki (larger city) it works properly and helps getting signal fast beneath tall buildings.
But yeah it doesnt work in my hometown so its kinda rubbish here.
Maybe it has something to do with how new are nearby cell towers or something. dunno

In Trondheim, Norway it worked with Telenor and gave me a signal indoors, but when I use it together with TomTom the signal gets lost periodicly, really really annoying since "everything" is already there. Probably just something with the co-operation with the regular GPS or something?

I think i got it to run.
I use tt7.910 on diamond with htc 1.93 dutch rom
My mobile provider is mobistar.
I can get a lock inside, tough it's slow(ie not as fast as outside).
When I fire up tt7 the almanac data is showing in the satelite screen.
reg settings are:
Code:
GPRSConnection: Orange World
GpsMode: 4
Network: Orange World
ServerIP: 194.51.71.138
ServerPort: 7275
ServerUrl: agps.orange.fr

Program the uses ONLY A-GPS ?

anyone know of a program that only uses the AGPS on the kaiser? ( like how the GPS on the iPhone works or how google maps gets you location) it would be nice to have the option to use the AGPS on its own to save some battery life and have a faster fix since the fix times suck on WM6.1
Thanks guys and gals

might want to try the program KaiserTweak, i thought it has the option to activate A-GPS only.. but im not sure...
i dont know if it would work with TomTom or any other prog that normally uses GPS though..

what iphone 2g use is not agps
agps is an extention of normal gps
it's not the term used for pinpointing ones
location by requesting the gsm network

What you're referring to in google maps is Cell ID positioning, and that's what the 2G iphone uses.
As said, the AGPS as we have it on the Kaiser only refers to the ability to download satellite position data from the web via QuickGPS and thus enabling faster times to first fix, and having a "guesstimating" algorithm that will try to continue giving you a position when sat coverage is too low to get a real one.
The GPS on the 3G iphone also is a "real" GPS receiver that draws power, however while the Kaiser can get satellite path info from the sats if the online data is not available or outdated, only slower, the one in the iphone can ONLY get it online, thus rendering the GPS useless if there's no network coverage. Dead stupid IMO.

got it, thanks for the explination

kilrah said:
The GPS on the 3G iphone also is a "real" GPS receiver that draws power, however while the Kaiser can get satellite path info from the sats if the online data is not available or outdated, only slower, the one in the iphone can ONLY get it online, thus rendering the GPS useless if there's no network coverage. Dead stupid IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dead wrong, sir. Read here:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/app...-the-iphones-gps-without-a-network-connection
http://www.autonavigationgps.com/using-the-iphones-gps-without-a-network-connection/
Do some research before you make statements with big capital letters that make it seem like you know what you're talking about.
I have both phones, I know that the iPhone 3G's GPS unit will work without a data connection, it just takes five minutes or so. Kind of like the GPS on my Tilt if I don't use Quick GPS first.

dzelaya18 said:
Do some research before you make statements with big capital letters that make it seem like you know what you're talking about.
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Click to collapse
Well, Sorry for that. I however DID research, and the source I got that info from stated it clearly enough here:
A typical A-GPS-enabled cell phone will use a data connection (internet, or other) to contact the assistance server. Alternatively, it may use standard non-assisted GPS, which is slower and less accurate, but does not lead to network charges for data traffic, which can be considerable.[3] Some A-GPS solutions do not have the option of falling back to conventional GPS (as with the new iPhone 3G).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Seems I just fell into my first "Wikipedia is wrong" occurrence

No problem mate. With no data connection, it's about as slow as using my Tilt with Quick GPS. Which is to say, super slow. And just like my Tilt with Live Search or Google Maps, even getting the fix doesn't do much good unless you've got the maps cached into memory.
EDIT: I meant to say, "...about as slow as using my Tilt without Quick GPS."

SAT Nav and GPS question.

Can anyone clarify how GPS works on the G1/Dream. Im being advised by t-mobile here in the UK that to use GPS the phone needs to connect to the internet (so Im guessing it uses a GPS server from Google).
Reason for asking is because I have an Orbit now with Tom TOm and it works sweet for free as long as I can get a GPS signal. I spend a lot of time out of the UK, and dont want to incur internet roaming charges (£1.50per MB) to use GPS and the sat nav.
Additionally, assuming GPS is free, are there any apps out there to allow me to run native Tom TOm on the G1, or any other apps as good as or better than Tom Tom (excluding Google Maps which obviously requires www access).
Thanks

In addition you can disable the A-GPS function (or so ive heard) But i believe the reason why they say you need to have internet access is because the native application of the G1 is Google maps and it draws all of its informaion online, as far as using the GPS only you do not need internet access if you have all the maps available offline.

eskimofisherman,
The G1 definitely has a GPS antenna, which has nothing to do with data - it simply figures out it's coordinates on earth. That data (coordinates) can then pinpoint you on a map, which is where the data connection comes in. The maps are downloaded to your phone using the data connection. And, as far as I've seen, it is streamed to your phone. For instance, if you're on 9th street, the G1 will download the maps for 5 blocks around 9th. If you move, or scroll on the screen, it then downloads the map data for that area you move to. With TomTom, you bought maps, which means you had all 1-2GB of data pre-loaded. Lastly, FYI, GPS is always free. You aren't ever "downloading" data with a GPS antenna. All it does is say "where is this antenna, on earth, relative to X number of satellites?"
As far as TomTom on the G1, I have no idea....sorry
Hope this helps!

Exactly - I was hoping to use the sat nav function with "a n other" sat nav program and/or maps, or using maps offline.
T Mobile seem to suggest you need internet access even for the GPS, regardless of the Google maps function.

Ya, right now I don't think you're gonna have any luck since all the maps applications except andnav use google maps and andnav still requires a data connection. (although I do seem to remember one that uses maps downloaded to your phone from something called open maps or something... can any1 confirm?)

Hi!
If you use AndNav (download lastest beta from www.andnav.org) you can preload all the maps you could ever dream of
This does not require you to go to the internet to download data, but it does require you to access the internet to enable the software to select your route. You can however preload the routes aswell

Keep in mind. If you live in the USA, like myself, AndNav2 doesn't support us yet!

There is a posting on another Android site showing Copilot Live on a G1. When this comes out it will have the maps on a micro sd card. The price for the wm version is $99.

Wow awesome, I just hope the internal Gps chipset is decent. Unlike the n95 built in gps I had. Although I do have a Sirf Star III BT receiver just in case.

Thinking about upgrading to a tilt, but questions

Im sure this will be easy for you guys. I have a 8125 now with live search on it. My question is if I upgrade to the tilt, is there a way I can use the gps without being charged? I would really appreciate the help. Thanks in advance

a gps don't use the phone it get signals from satellites
so it don't cost anything
but of cause if you use gmaps for navigation it will cost
but if you use tomtom or garmin program and maps you
don't even need a sim card in the phone

The Wizard is cool, but the Tilt...
Hi there,
I use Google Maps...if you pay your provider for internet access (like PDA Connect or MediaNet Unlimited...search on those if you don't know the truth!) then it won't cost you anything more.
There is a clause in the Google Maps program that says not to use it while moving, and I'm still unclear myself as to the exact reasons why, so at least be aware when you are doing something you're 'not supposed to' do...but it works just fine, is EASY to use, has broad general search capabilities, incorporates their Satellite View and practically real-time Traffic info.
If you do NOT pay for internet access (although I strongly suggest taking advantage of the 3G on the Tilt) you can use a 3rd party app like TomTom, Garmin and many others.
I also have DeLorme's Street Atlas 2007, but it does not support the GPS built into the Tilt, I have an external BT GPS for that.
The latest version of Street Atlas has...I believe...addressed that issue and should work fine.
And there are a TON of other GPS programs out there that have many subtle differences to suit whatever your needs are...search the Kaiser > Software Forum and you'll find people who love and hate almost every one of them available. Installing most of them on the SD is more efficient, but some are small enough to put in without one.
The Tilt also has Quick GPS that, when updated regularly, speeds up the satellite acquisition time for the GPS effectively...I usually get a lock within 10-15 seconds, but it does take longer on occasion. Quick GPS downloads info from the Net, so you would need access to utilize that function.
I too had a Wizard before the Tilt...and I liked it alot...but the 3G, the GPS, the 3MP Camera...and THIS FORUM!...have taken me to a point where I LOVE my Tilt, and...although I can 'upgrade' now to a Fuze...I don't think I can get a better phone without going outside my Provider Dealer (AT&T thru Hawk Electronics).
Search the Kaiser Forum for GPS, look specifically in the Software section and I think you'll find more than enough info to help you make your decision.
If you do make the switch, I'd keep the Wizard and start playing with Cooked ROMs and Software so you can get acquainted with the process. What you can do with the Tilt on this Forum is only limited by the time these guys have to tweak.
For what it may or may not be worth, my opinion is...get the Tilt!

Thanks guys, I plan on getting it and I have spb 3 so ill throw it on there right away