Database Develop

BAD XDA-DEVELOPERS? Where's this thread?Who has deleted it?WHY?!?!?!?!?!

[Mod Edit: The Previous Thread by Dutty was removed by request, because of it's sensitive WM 6.5 content, unfortunatly this sometimes has to happen and is not in particular because the developer or XDA wants to keep information away from the Public. I hope, that without going into to much detail that we can count on the understanding of you al. If there are questions regarding Removed threads please don't hesitate to ask a Mod directly At The Moment this is being investigated.
Please take into account a few days before a Response will be available. Thanks for all your understanding and patience]
[Noonski]
There are some strange things.
The first: why that thread was closed?? On that thread there were interesting infos usefull for many people here. So, WHY??
Second: why this morning that thread disappeared completely??
Third: why no one seems to have those rom dumps from Rhodium and Topaz??
Only one person seems to have got those dumps, it's clear reading the thread.
SO, WHY NO ONE HAS SHARED THE DUMPs???
THOSE ARE PERHAPS USELESS FOR THIS COMMUNITY????
In my opinion this is REALLY STRANGE, and I can't understand the points above.
Is this a community to develop something together or not??
SO, WHY NOT SHARE THOSE SOURCES(I REPEAT, SOURCES!!)??? Those are usefull for all the community!!! OR I'M WRONG??!?!?!?!?
Please, someone tell me that I'm wrong or let me know what's the spirit of xda-developers!

make a complaint to admin of this site

Uh! Oh!!!
I can't believe it. I hope that some one could explane me (us) what is it? I couldn't believe such a behaviour on this forum. Never seen before and I am there since so many time!!!
About the sharing: where did the spirit of this forum go???

It is obvious you did not even bother to ask any moderator or the admin before starting this thread. Please follow those procedures before you start a new thread accusing a mod of being sneaky and underhanded. This thread is closed as it will not lead to anything productive. We will look into it.
In the future please afford everyone the respect of actually looking into a matter before publicly accusing people of anything.

Banned Luana P because it's an SOCK-puppet account (reg. IP matches the IP of another user).
This account has been opend by another member to accuse other people and keep the "master" safe.

Please Read!

Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Too many people are trying to take the easy road and post a new thread on a subject or idea, usually asking a question about something that has already been answered instead of doing a simple search!
I've been a member here for a couple years now and haven't needed to post very much because, if you take the time, the information is out there. 99.9% of the time, you aren't the first person to ask a question, have a problem, or hit a wall.
If you're having trouble doing something that was posted in a thread, POST YOUR QUESTION IN THAT THREAD!!
It seems as though there are a lot of newbies who are anxious to root their Inc, which is fine: If you pay attention, read the instructions and most of the thread before you begin, and follow them to a T . Every time I have a problem either rooting or installing a ROM or something else, I am the one who did something wrong.
Some of you are probably new to the Thread concept, which is also fine. It's very frustrating getting used to how they work, and learning the "right" way to do things- but trust me, it's worth it.
Posting a new thread is like standing on a chair in the middle of a crowded room and screaming out a question. If your in the wrong room (i.e. wrong section), people are going to be upset. If the question was already answered by another group (i.e. another forum), people are also going to be upset. If you aren't sure if you should start a new thread, you probably shouldn't.
Take the time and READ THE RULES! Here they are if you don't know where to find them:
New forum rules, please read!
1. Search before posting.
Use one of our search functions before posting, whether you have a question or something new to share, it's very likely someone already asked that question or shared that news.
2. Member conduct.
2.1 Language: XDA is a worldwide community. As a result what is ‘ok’ to say in your part of the world may not be ok in someone else’s part of the world. Please think about who is reading what you write. Keep in mind that what you think of as acceptable use of language may not be acceptable to others. Conversely, while reading member posts, remember that word you find offensive may not be to the writer. Tolerance is a two way street.
2.2 Nudity: XDA is used by people of all ages, including minors. It's not acceptable to post nude/pornographic imagery, which includes exposure of the male or female genitalia or of female breasts.
2.3 Flaming: XDA was founded as a group of people sharing information about certain mobile phones. Sharing does not involve virtual yelling (flaming) it does involve working together to solve problems in an environment of mutual respect and understanding. Losing your temper and flaming another member, or group of members, is not acceptable behavior.
2.4 Personal attacks, racial, political and/or religious discussions: XDA is a discussion forum about certain mobile phones. Mobile phones are not racial, political, religious or personally offensive, therefore none of these types of discussions are permitted on XDA.
2.5 New Members: Treat new members the way you would have liked to have been treated when you were a new member. Provide the new members with guidance, advice and instruction always with respect and courtesy.
2.6 All members are expected to read and adhere to the XDA rules.
3. Post only using a clear subject and message.
You're most likely to receive a helpful answer to your question if you use a short subject title that describes your problem and a message that explains in detail what your problem is and what you've tried to solve it.
4. Use the English language.
We understand that with all the different nationalities not everyone speaks English well, but please try. If you're really unable to post in English use an online translator, You're free to include your original message in your own language below the English translation.
5. Post a message only once.
As a large forum we don't need unnecessary clutter, You're free to edit your message as you like, so if you do not receive an answer revisit your message and see if you can describe your problem better. Not everyone is online at the same time, it might take a while before you receive an answer.
6. Do not post warez.
If a piece of software requires you to pay to use it, either pay or find your cracks and serials somewhere else. We do not accept warez nor do we permit any member to promote or describe ways in which Warez, cracks, serial codes or other means of avoiding payment, can be obtained.
7. Do not spam.
If you wish to advertise a product, contact us we provide ads. But do not post it in the forums, it will be removed and you're likely to receive a ban.
You are however allowed to sell used goods like your own device, parts of your device or accessories for your device in the marketplace forum, please read the rules there before posting. (This rule includes signatures, if you use a signature it will appear in your post)
8. Donations.
We appreciate all donations to xda-developers.com, it keeps our forum online and well maintained. As a user you're allowed to ask for donations in your signature as a thank you for your hard work. However donations up front are not allowed, this forum is about sharing, not about getting paid to do something, that's what your job is for.
9. Don't get us in trouble.
Don't post copyrighted materials or do other things that will obviously lead to legal trouble. If you wouldn't do it on your own homepage, you probably don't want to do it here either. This does not mean we agree with everything the software piracy lobby try to impose on us, it simply means you cannot break any laws here, since we'll end up dealing with legal hassle caused by you. Please use common sense: respect the forum, its users, and those that write great code.
10. Help others if you can.
If you see posts from others where you can help out, please do. This place exists because people are helping each other, and even if you are relatively new to the matter, there's probably already quite a few people newer than you that would benefit from what you've learned. Don't be shy.
11. Don’t post with the intent on selling something.
As an elaboration to rule number 7, don’t use XDA to advertise your product or service. If you are the proprietor of a for-pay product or service, you may use XDA to get feedback, provide beta access, or offer support on the product, but you may not make any posts with the primary intent of selling. This includes posting press releases, announcements, or links to downloads for trial software. The only exception to this is when you’re posting an exclusive release to XDA.
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So instead of starting a new thread like "How do I.." or "Where do I" or "Why can't I..." Do a search of the threads, Google it, or even hop on over to PPC Geeks, Trust me- you'll find the answers you're looking for.
BTW - Thanks to Mikey1022 for moderating

+100000000000000000000000
I wish people had to read this before they could post new threads. This forum seems to be worse than most of the other android forums on xda... not sure why.
Everyone who disagrees with this should check out the nexus one forum to get an idea of how lax things are here.

You better watch it. Some people may take offense to this. people also have to be aware when they do make a new thread that it is in the correct section. Too many questions are being posted in Development instead of General. Let's keep the sections on topic so people can find what they came looking for.

I agree, but I can see the other side as well.
The "Root process" thread is up to 108 pages. Sure, searching helps, but you are still poring over pages and pages of forums for hours. I kind of learned that this was the buy-in from my WinMo days, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.
One advantage to sticking to existing threads, however, is that people who are successful will probably post back to that thread, with any variations they used, whereas they are less likely to post to a new thread.

Calibob2001 said:
Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Too many people are trying to take the easy road and post a new thread on a subject or idea, usually asking a question about something that has already been answered instead of doing a simple search!
I've been a member here for a couple years now and haven't needed to post very much because, if you take the time, the information is out there. 99.9% of the time, you aren't the first person to ask a question, have a problem, or hit a wall.
If you're having trouble doing something that was posted in a thread, POST YOUR QUESTION IN THAT THREAD!!
It seems as though there are a lot of newbies who are anxious to root their Inc, which is fine: If you pay attention, read the instructions and most of the thread before you begin, and follow them to a T . Every time I have a problem either rooting or installing a ROM or something else, I am the one who did something wrong.
Some of you are probably new to the Thread concept, which is also fine. It's very frustrating getting used to how they work, and learning the "right" way to do things- but trust me, it's worth it.
Posting a new thread is like standing on a chair in the middle of a crowded room and screaming out a question. If your in the wrong room (i.e. wrong section), people are going to be upset. If the question was already answered by another group (i.e. another forum), people are also going to be upset. If you aren't sure if you should start a new thread, you probably shouldn't.
Take the time and READ THE RULES! Here they are if you don't know where to find them:
So instead of starting a new thread like "How do I.." or "Where do I" or "Why can't I..." Do a search of the threads, Google it, or even hop on over to PPC Geeks, Trust me- you'll find the answers you're looking for.
BTW - Thanks to Mikey1022 for moderating
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.

Calibob2001 said:
Hopefully this catches the eyes of those who need to read it most...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You know they won't. The ones who post these repeated topics are the ones who freak out when they're lost, post a topic, and hit refresh all day instead of looking for the answer. The only ones who actually read this are the ones already pissed off about it.

barry1685 said:
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, I didn't even read it. Just scrolled to through the comments

bluetooth_decay said:
I agree, but I can see the other side as well.
The "Root process" thread is up to 108 pages. Sure, searching helps, but you are still poring over pages and pages of forums for hours. I kind of learned that this was the buy-in from my WinMo days, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.
One advantage to sticking to existing threads, however, is that people who are successful will probably post back to that thread, with any variations they used, whereas they are less likely to post to a new thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are so many pages of topics because of the issue that is being described. There is a very handy function called "search" that, while not perfect, at least narrows results down for you. You can search within a Section, Topic or down to a single thread for key words.
Odds are, if you are on here you know how to navigate the web. If you can't perform a basic search in a topic or thread then please don't try to root your phone or follow any instructions to change, modify or "hack" anything.
As was brought out by [OP], if you WANT to do something that you think will be useful to you, read up on it. If you do run into an issue, search the key word of your issue. Entering "boot loop", "frozen", "Error message 123" will return something to help you find your answer. Odds are, you are not alone and, if you find you are alone, return to the thread where you were following instructions to do whatever it was you want to do and post a reply describing your issues. [OP] or others who are familiar with the process will help. Patience is a must.

barry1685 said:
How much time did you spend writing this? No ones going to pay attention.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Far too long than I care to admit - My first draft was rather angry and the overtone has calmed quite a bit...
And even if ONE newbie reads it and gleans even a whisper of insight as to how to operate the forums, then I have been 100% successful- even if 1% of those who read it take this to heart, at this point, that's still 2 fewer Threads the moderators have to close down...

Trust me, no matter what you try to do, you cannot stop people from reposting over and over.
Trust me, no matter what forum I'm at, it's the same thing over and over. It ruins it for us that actually read stuff and search for a while before asking, but such is life.
Infact if you'd search you'd see that there are multiple threads of this nature all over every forum...I know I've seen quite a few on XDA alone.

codybear said:
Infact if you'd search you'd see that there are multiple threads of this nature all over every forum...I know I've seen quite a few on XDA alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So are you saying the op didn't take his own advice?
BTW I am glad someone changed the title of this thread as no one is going to respect your opinion when you start off that way.
On a side note I am new to this forum but from my experience thus far it has been very underwhelming. I made one thread and had issues with posters coming off as elitists. I don't know how modding gets done around here but until people can be civil this will always be a secondary place for me to post about Android news and the Droid Incredible.
I expected more from an XDA forum.

Hand76 said:
So are you saying the op didn't take his own advice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What he's saying is that there are a lot of people who don't read the Forum rules and post new threads without doing a little research to figure things out for themselves. If you need help figuring things out, that's fine- but don't expect other people to do your leg work for you.
Hand76 said:
On a side note I am new to this forum but from my experience thus far it has been very underwhelming. I made one thread and had issues with posters coming off as elitists. I don't know how modding gets done around here but until people can be civil this will always be a secondary place for me to post about Android news and the Droid Incredible.
I expected more from an XDA forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I looked up your thread, and honestly I found the answer to both of your questions with a very simple Google search- These are the threads that frustrate members most. There is already a thread that addresses everything from unlocking to removing apps and it's HERE, or better yet, you can look HERE for a list of safe apps to remove and how to remove them... This is where your questions should probably be, not in a new thread.
There are a lot of helpful, knowledgeable people here, you just gotta learn to follow the rules...

Calibob2001 said:
and honestly I found the answer to both of your questions with a very simple Google search
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So you suggest doing a google search instead of coming to these forums for an answer?
Calibob2001 said:
There is already a thread that addresses everything from unlocking to removing apps and it's HERE, or better yet, you can look HERE for a list of safe apps to remove and how to remove them... This is where your questions should probably be, not in a new thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The first thread you linked to is a root thread that covers every topic under the sun. So according to you we should just have one thread on this entire forum and no one should post anything outside of it.
The second thread you linked to I posted in and got 1 answer but many other questions were unanswered.
Still you are coming off as a complete elitist and I don't know why this thread is stickied when on most other forums this would have been locked, especially with the condescending way you started things off.
That is just my two cents.

tl;dr
firstly the rules are already out there: dont repost them asking people not to repost
secondly people do search, but you cant expect everyone to get the search terms right all the time and find what they want. also there are a lot of questions that may sound similar but are not. most of the folks on xda are good people who are trying to get answers and are not purposeful spamming douchebags, so stop the whining and dont read threads you dont want to.

TownHall Meeting - Finalized - Look @ Post 3 for Summary

The TownHall Meeting has been officially started. Here are the rules of engagement:
Ok, enough joking for now. Here are the true rules of engagement:
1. Posts that are flaming or flame bait are to be deleted, no questions asked.
2. Language to be edited on sight....
3. No banning, No infractions.
4. Moderators will act only as a mediator, so we will not be taking sides with anyone.
Welcome everyone

@everyone,
Please respect the rules above and I can guarantee you that by the end of the day, we will have a much happier and friendlier atmosphere in this place.

Summary of action items
This was a good meeting in General and it has covered all of the things that I had in my agenda. A few action items on our (mods) end:
1. New threads for ROM updates: Rom threads become quasi chaotic after page 100 or so. Since Chefs update most of their work often, I would suggest that chefs open a new thread for each version with a date and version number to distinguish it from the previous one (maybe even a name)
ie [ROM] 12/15/10 - Inchybrid v 1.2 - all is good now
2. Rom Review Thread: In order to minimize the clutter of the usual "what rom is best" questions, we will start a ROM thread where chefs can post a link to their roms on the first few posts and users will be able to leave reviews (not necessarily feedback), but reviews. So, when someone comes asking for the best rom, that person can be directed there.
3. Wiki update and guides (sticky): These need to be heavily updated, but will certainly be a useful tool to help people with questions.
4. Location / shape of the Report button: I will talk to the other admins and see what can be done about this one.
5. Preventing non-devs from making new threads in Dev: We are currently discussing a system for this. We will keep you posted if and when we reach a conclusion.
6. Off Topic Lounge: There will be a thread in General for you guys to blow off steam. Nothing fancy, but you can post there without having to open a new thread in OT general
Now, onto the action items results and requests from us (mods)
1. Further flaming for questions will not be tolerated. I gathered from this meeting that everyone agrees on a stance that people need not be flamed for asking anything. If there are questions in the wrong areas or simply don't feel like answering, refrain from posting and report it to us. We will move it to Q&A or General depending on the question. Building on this point, if anyone is caught flaming someone who posted in the correct section, that person will be given a vacation.
2. Rule 12 (aka Kanging): Rom chefs (no matter if they are themers or zip wizards), if they are using someone else's efforts as a base for their rom, they are to abide by Rule 12 by asking permission and posting the due credit in the opening post. Kanging will not be tolerated.
3. Donations: This was barely brushed but I feel that we reached an understanding rather quickly on this one. Chefs shall not ask for Donations to release early work.
4. Posting any kind of flaming will not be tolerated. If you feel that a post shouldn't be there, please let us know and we will take care of that.
I think this pretty much summed everything up. If I missed something, please let me know. I expect everyone to adhere to codes of conduct in this site. Thanks to all for attending.

I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)

Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?

lralexl said:
I think the problems in the Development forums stem from a general misconception of what it means to be a "developer" and how one earns that title. Often I will hear people flame people like Team Whiskey or Master as mere "re-skinners", because the main(not all) thing that is in their changelog is mere aesthetic changes. I think the mods should post clearly that anything that involves changing the rom should be considered a type of development, even if only graphical development. This would dissolve any type of hate towards people that reskin or release graphical modifications to already existing roms.(IMHO)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for starting things off...
So, what you are saying is that a lot of the flaming occurs due to skinners being deemed as kangers. Am I getting this right?

I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.

lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
12. Using the work of others.
If you are developing something that is based on the work of another Member, you MUST first seek their permission, and you must give credit to the member whose work you used. If a dispute occurs about who developed / created a piece of work, first try to settle the matter by private message and NOT in open forum. If this fails then you may contact a moderator with clear evidence that the work was created by you.
Convincing evidence will result in copied work being removed. If there is no clear evidence you created the work then in the spirit of sharing all work will remain posted on the forums.
These rules apply to all software posted on XDA unless that software comes with a license that waives these rules.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev. It looks like the biggest problem is either a misunderstanding about this rule or lack of knowledge about its existence by both accusing party and "guilty/innocent" party. As a general rule of thumb, if you are making a rom that is based on someone else's work:
* Ask for permission
* Give credit where its due
Simple as that.

Interesting point...
From my experience on hero, people tend to post a theme pack for a ROM. For example, a few regular users port the same few themes into each new ROM I make, and release an add-on patch for it.
They don't go and release it as a separate ROM, but if they did, I have no doubt they would ask me about it first, and I would say sure, but with the caveat that we don't want it to happen too often... What would people think if we had one ROM that is tweaked theme-wise a few times and re-posted as separate ROMs?
There's no "right" answer, but provided people ask the original developers, and give credit per rule 12, then there is no issue with the rules there, so users would be allowed to.
Whether or not it is a "ROM" is up to individual perspectives then.

egzthunder1 said:
Fair enough, let me bring forth the rule that addresses this issue "Using the work of others"
In essence skinning is ok so as long as the member seeks permission from the original dev.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.

As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.

lralexl said:
I don't even think its a permission issue really. I've just seen in a few threads people calling a skinner a developer, and then you'll have a flamefest erupt of people saying that skinning or winzipping isn't developing. I think this leads everyone more away from the truth that it's all contributions to the community and should be treated as such.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
One (implied) rule of thumb is that if the "dev" in question cannot support their release, you are more than likely dealing with a themer or a "zip wizard" and as such, you are probably better off trying to find the source of the rom and apply the theme/fix as a separate add-on.

Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It may be a bit of added work, but the Rom review thread is not a bad idea. Just keep it clean from clutter and you have a very good tool to prevent new threads of "What is the best rom?" kind from erupting... I like that!
When it comes from flaming, some people will just put out flame bait for the hell of it. What I need, or at least I would like to see, is for everyone to stick to code of conduct and either ignore it, report it, or else, just not add to the fire.

First, we do recognize that we have a problem. We know this because 1) developers are leaving and forming their own sites because they don't like some of the things going on here. And 2) newer people are afraid to post here. Instead, they go to other forums and ask questions and state that they are afraid to post here. Both of these are big problems for the health of the site.
So, we look at the root causes. Most of them stem from 1) a lack of courtesy or 2) a lack of proper conduct. But I think the problems start with:
1. The Samsung Vibrant's stock software is not up to par due to some poor performing components, such as the GPS.
2. Samsung and T-Mobile have failed to communicate with their community.
3. Many people have come to sites like XDA for help.
What this means is that we have a lot of people in the Development forum who really aren't developers. But, they are here because they want help making their Vibrants perform better. That's not an excuse. I'm just saying that we probably have a lot of people in the Developer section who probably should be in QA or General section.
I think we would do well to:
1. Create a NooB forum, or emphasize the General forum as the place to be.
2. Post all new released ROMs in its own forum (not General, but "ROMS" or "Releases") That way people can go there for ROMS and for SUPPORT.
3. I would hope that this would enable the development forum to get back to being one were developers (or people who are interested in developing) could hang out.
Lastly, there are just some people who are like to cause trouble or are overly sensitive. I'm not sure what to do with them. But if they can't play nice, probably the first thing is to "parent" them and see if they can play nice. If that doesn't work, then it is time for a "timeout", or a temporary or permanent ban.
Lastly, while I appreciate the TownHall meeting, let's not lose site of the good things happening here. I would say that the majority of people are following the rules and making meaningful contributions. But if just 10% of the people do bad things, it colors the entire community.

The Vibrant subforums have seemed to be more Wild West than anything. I feel there should be a better mod presence. Don't get me wrong, I know exactly how difficult it is to do all the moderating, especially given how much of it is behind the scenes, but I feel that there is still some regulation lacking. We need to see more people get warned within threads that get out of hand, and frankly, some banning might get the message across that XDA is going to stop taking this crap from people. This board has gotten ridiculous w/ the flaming and incessant bs. Moderation can only go so much, since it's really up to the posting base to change their ways and be more respectful towards one another in order to truly make a long-term difference, but in the short-term we need some better, more aggresive moderation since changing peoples' posting habits will not be a quick thing to happen.

Proud to be a noob
I think there does seem to be a general consensus around us "noobs" about our failure to use the "search" function in a thread that has over 600 + pages of posts. God knows I would love to just flash a ROM and read basic information or FAQ's from the developer (the one individual who SHOULD know more about their own product than anyone) if I have questions, but when you have over 200 posts about how much others love/hate the ROM/developer or personal rants or recommendations/requests for the ROM they have had no part in developing, it does make it difficult to filter out the answer to the force close issue I am experiencing (for example). Then the flame wars begin! How DARE I ask that question since it was answered previously 42 pages back with a link to another developers thread, posted on page 418 of their 700 page manifesto...you get the hint. Finding basic answers to questions is challenging at best, and most newcomers end up getting ridiculed to the point of not wanting to have any further part, or end up flaming right back. Newsflash : just because you have flashed every possible combination of ROM/kernel/modem, does in no way make you an expert. Leave that to the people that make the ROM. Replies should be streamlined to relevant information allowed only, or force a PM if you want to discuss something irrelevant or bash a newcomer if it makes you feel better.

Keslynn said:
As far as the flaming issue goes, I think that people are too quick to respond to bait. If a post is flamebait, I wish people would just ignore it. I think that would help a lot. Maybe along with thanking there could be a voting system for unhelpful posts? I don't know.
On a different note, I think it would be useful to have a review thread for every ROM in the General forum. Constructive reviews only. This would help keep Development threads for bugfixing and dev issues instead of 8 million "what's battery life like?" User screenshots, battery life comments, general performance commentary, etc could all be in the review thread. If someone posts "omg this rom rulez" or "it sucks" they could be given a canned response to give an actual constructive review in that review thread. Just a suggestion. Thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was think about that the other day...that's a good idea and that way the develoment forum will be kept clean.

lralexl said:
I'm sure there are other personal issues, but I have seen much flaming on reskinning.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you able to comment on the personal issues or are you simply surmising?
Thanks
WB

egzthunder1 said:
Ok, I think that we are getting closer to the heart of the matter. Conceptions of what people's role is should not be grounds for calling someone out or flaming them. The whole thing actually gets simpler from this point on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To expand on this point, I've noticed people flaming over pretty much any definition. Someone posts that they're disappointed by GPS performance or screen burn in, and they get an argument over what constitutes a "feature" of the phone and told that their concern is not important. People forget that what might not be important to them may be a dealbreaker for someone else.

egzthunder1 said:
Ok, since we are off to a slow start, there are a few topics that I would like to address today. The biggest one, in my book anyways, is forum conduct.
We have had numerous complains coming from the Vibrant fora from newcomers (n00bs) complaining that they cannot even dare ask anything due to fear of being flamed to smithereens. Anyone care to elaborate on this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Since that's where I spend most of my time I can say for certain that this is true. I think there's a lot of younger kids in the vibrant forum who like picking fights and just generally being less than friendly. It seems like the answer to most questions asked is go search for it yourself. The information is readily available most of the time if theyd just look, but there's no reason to be rude about it.
With that said, I think since the thanks button has been added its made for a better atmosphere--so far. Definitely a welcome addition that will hopefully keep things civil.

Need A Good Rom for [LB] 4.4.2 C6616 - Bell Canada

I have been looking for a rom for this phone i can't stand this 4.4.2 stock bell , and am looking for a great working rom that dosnt have this sony overlay
please help

This is not the right topic to post a question ! -__-
Send from my XZ With My Own Personal Modified MoonWalker SuperB !

Agree with the above. All ROMs featured here are the result of painstaking porting, testing and development by the dev, his team and an equally faithful band of testers. All this effort comes for free, without remuneration or salary, as these guys do it as a hobby/interest, in their spare time. Posing such a question is an insult to each and every one of them. All ROMs are equally good, excelling in certain fields and attributes. It would be better to ask "Which ROM suits me best and fits my usage/requirements?". And that, can be best answered by you only. So read each ROMs thread, check out the features and feedbacks on each ROM, and select the ones you want to try. After using your shortlisted ROMs, fnd which fits your bill as a daily driver and use it. Then tell us all about it instead of asking such foolish questions, and that too in the Development Section.
Dead Cookies leave no trails...

Cookie Ninja said:
Agree with the above. All ROMs featured here are the result of painstaking porting, testing and development by the dev, his team and an equally faithful band of testers. All this effort comes for free, without remuneration or salary, as these guys do it as a hobby/interest, in their spare time. Posing such a question is an insult to each and every one of them. All ROMs are equally good, excelling in certain fields and attributes. It would be better to ask "Which ROM suits me best and fits my usage/requirements?". And that, can be best answered by you only. So read each ROMs thread, check out the features and feedbacks on each ROM, and select the ones you want to try. After using your shortlisted ROMs, fnd which fits your bill as a daily driver and use it. Then tell us all about it instead of asking such foolish questions, and that too in the Development Section.
Dead Cookies leave no trails...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No words to say brother. U touch my heart....

Rajeev said:
No words to say brother. U touch my heart....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks guys , I'm just looking for a ROM that's easy ROM or wish I could use a Pure Stock Version of Android. But unfortunately this phone C6616 can't run a pure vanilla android.
Thanks I'll check out some of the Roms out so far.
#CEO Mr.PC Repair

use nova launcher and other aosp apps.
Settings menu is just themed a little but its pretty close to stock.
Use gem or gravity box for aosp lock screen

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And as always...
Thank you, and have a great day!
Thread moved & closed

Question about Fox2Code's FoxMagiskModuleManager

hello, here is a problem with fox manager
message "Failed to access root or magisk"
how to correct thank you not find in search
I know why these magisk which have lost rooting, in magisk I have not available and on zygysk the same I no longer remember the manipulation to do to correct this.
I got the wrong subject it's in magisk I should have posted

meric57 said:
hello, here is a problem with fox manager
message "Failed to access root or magisk"
how to correct thank you not find in search...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I get the same error. Root is fine, though. All installed modules are not (late edit) listed properly in the modules tab.

m0han said:
I get the same error. Root is fine, though. All installed modules are listed properly in the modules tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The issue persists with the 'large maintenance update' 0.6.2. Does anyone know a workaround for this? Root is fine otherwise. Installed modules are not listed, though.

Hello m0han, the first time I had the update of the fox manager same concern. The update days no longer concern magisk in place root ok, see when I turn it off whether magisk root jumps or not.

meric57 said:
.... the first time I had the update of the fox manager same concern. The update days no more concern...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll check with upcoming releases

Màhan ,reboot my S10 after misa days message in red as you is magisk off
can be escalated to the developer of fox’s application manager. he must have a way to fix this problem no. I have essential root no backup in this application, can be with the magisk boot image by reflashing direct with essential root the application.

XDA mods can be funny. Like when they do a job without being asked to and leave it half-done.
Why was a thread created in my name without my consent?
Why are these posts allowed to stand?
This was the starter: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344169
Another one: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87384473
This too: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344607
My posts, if OT, could have been deleted.
Delete this thread. @Timmmmaaahh!, @Oswald Boelcke

m0han said:
XDA mods can be funny. Like when they do a job without being asked to and leave it half-done.
Why was a thread created in my name without my consent?
Why are these posts allowed to stand?
This was the starter: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344169
Another one: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87384473
This too: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344607
My posts, if OT, could have been deleted.
Delete this thread. @Timmmmaaahh!, @Oswald Boelcke
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... Not haha-funny?
I'm a bit lost on what we did wrong in your opinion. As you're publicly shaming us (while we always respond to PMs), might as well throw it all on the table. I'm all for transparency. I don't see any impersonation via those links but I'm on mobile right now, perhaps I'm missing something. Feel free to elaborate.

Timmmmaaahh! said:
So... Not haha-funny?
I'm a bit lost on what we did wrong in your opinion. As you're publicly shaming us (while we always respond to PMs), might as well throw it all on the table. I'm all for transparency. I don't see any impersonation via those links but I'm on mobile right now, perhaps I'm missing something. Feel free to elaborate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've already asked @Bill720 to provide more information to @m0han as Bill was the one who moved the post out of a thread and instead created a new thread out of this post. Please let me know if you like more information privately.
@m0han Mam, Sir! I hope you agree that we don't require your consent at all if a post by you created in whatever thread is converted to an own thread. You voluntarily decided to post information on XDA but it's solely on the XDA staff to decide where the correct location for your post is. I'm convinced you're going to receive more information by @Bill720 but due to his real life I'm aware about it might last 4 - 5 days. Fell free to privately contact Bill 720.
Regards
Oswald Boelcke
Senior Moderator

Timmmmaaahh! said:
... might as well throw it all on the table. I'm all for transparency. I don't see any impersonation via those links....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oswald Boelcke said:
.... we don't require your consent at all if a post by you created in whatever thread is converted to an own thread....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow! didn't know you guys would make the conversion selectively.
the post that started it all, the one i quoted to make my post in the first place, is not moved.
there was another post by @Stillhard where he called me (and maybe @meric57) 'mad' and asked for another thread to be created, which is now 'mia' on xda. i suppose @Bill720 created the thread based on that post.
isn't @Stillhard's out-of-context post offending? clearly, he wasn't offering any help or guidance. wasn't he 'publicly abusing' us, as opposed to my so-called 'shaming you'? was my post deleted (ss 04) 'cos this was the post @Stillhard quoted to call me (and @meric57) 'mad'?
hope it's not too much to expect you guys to do a fairer and cleaner clean-up.

m0han said:
hope it's not too much to expect you guys to do a fairer and cleaner clean-up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mam, Sir!
I've to admit I'm "surprised" that you intended to discuss this event publicly although as you've pinged us @Timmmmaaahh! and I were well known to you. Due to your ping, I even released an at that point obviously closed information, informed you who (@Bill720) handled your post and suggest you to contact him. For whatever reason you decided to stay public and to belittle our moderation and moderators' capability as my partially quote above shows.
I'm just now 3 1/2 years into the moderation business at XDA, and if you monitored me my moderation style has changed over the years and months - something that permanently occurs in real life. And I can assure you that we always - I repeat ALWAYS - handled everything including clean-ups to the most fair and clean extend. However, all of our moderators are humans; XDA doesn't use any AI like Google etc. When you registered on this private website 10 years ago, you most likely didn't note or meanwhile just ignored that this website has grown up to more than 11 miliion users, 75+ million posts in 3.5+ million threads. I'm not looking for excuses, especially not on a weekend, but did you ever relate this to the number of moderators? You're free to count them here. All these very few moderators are volunteers who do this "job" absolutely for free and just by our dedication to the XDA Forum besides our real lifes, real families and friends, real businesses and occupations. If you believe we get anything like devices etc. for free; negative, there's nothing.
And if you now believe I'm upset by your public posts: This is absolutely correct!
If you don't like how my fellow moderators or I handle the XDA Forum, I think there are two alternatives I suggest to you:
Data Deletion Request on XDA-Developers (GDPR)
XDA collects and stores a very limited amount of personal information from our users and never sells or shares personally identifiable information with anyone. Please see our privacy policy for more information on what data we collect and how it is used. We value your privacy and will comply...
www.xda-developers.com
or - and maybe the better alternative - if you're able to prove your competence, interest and capabilities in case you want to change or enhance the moderators' operations:
We currently need new Forum Moderators
Hi everyone, the moderator team on XDA currently needs some fresh blood. How about sending your application to become a moderator? If : - you have free time to spend on this role, - you fit the minimum requirements (see below), - you are...
forum.xda-developers.com
Regards
Oswald Boelcke

m0han said:
XDA mods can be funny. Like when they do a job without being asked to and leave it half-done.
Why was a thread created in my name without my consent?
Why are these posts allowed to stand?
This was the starter: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344169
Another one: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87384473
This too: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344607
My posts, if OT, could have been deleted.
Delete this thread. @Timmmmaaahh!, @Oswald Boelcke
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sometimes, life can be funny. I'll respectfully challenge you on "without being asked" and "leaving it half done," however, since those seem to be the biggest sticking points.
Your post was reported by another member, so that should help clear up the "without being asked" aspect of the inquiry. As far as "leaving it half-done" is concerned, the posts you mentioned do not explicitly mention that Fox2Code program. If you're convinced that they belong in this thread, feel free to let me know, and I'll be happy to move them to complete the cleanup.
While your post didn't explicitly reference Fox2Code's program either, being the post that was reported, it received the bulk of the scrutiny. I took the liberty of running a web search to try and piece it together for everyone's sake. Once done, I grafted out posts that appeared to have been obviously related into their own thread, where I still believe that they rightfully belong (rather than remaining as off-topic posts in an unrelated thread).
m0han said:
wow! didn't know you guys would make the conversion selectively.
the post that started it all, the one i quoted to make my post in the first place, is not moved.
there was another post by @Stillhard where he called me (and maybe @meric57) 'mad' and asked for another thread to be created, which is now 'mia' on xda. i suppose @Bill720 created the thread based on that post.
isn't @Stillhard's out-of-context post offending? clearly, he wasn't offering any help or guidance. wasn't he 'publicly abusing' us, as opposed to my so-called 'shaming you'? was my post deleted (ss 04) 'cos this was the post @Stillhard quoted to call me (and @meric57) 'mad'?
hope it's not too much to expect you guys to do a fairer and cleaner clean-up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll have to point that one out to me, as I did not personally perform any further cleanup in the thread aside from what was moved to this one. To reiterate, I'm not here to ruin anybody's day or single anybody out, so, if you feel that any straggler posts remain in that thread that should obviously be in this one, (stemming from your original off-topic post) you are more than welcome to let me know.

Oswald Boelcke said:
.... if you now believe I'm upset by your public posts: This is absolutely correct!
If you don't like how my fellow moderators or I handle the XDA Forum, I think there are two alternatives I suggest to you:
Data Deletion Request on XDA-Developers (GDPR)
XDA collects and stores a very limited amount of personal information from our users and never sells or shares personally identifiable information with anyone. Please see our privacy policy for more information on what data we collect and how it is used. We value your privacy and will comply...
www.xda-developers.com
or......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the data deletion page is actually for account deletion. so, you're hinting that i delete my account? i'll think about it. and, thanks for alerting users about the need for new mods.

Bill720 said:
.... Your post was reported by another member, so that should help clear up the "without being asked" aspect of the inquiry. As far as "leaving it half-done" is concerned, the posts you mentioned do not explicitly mention that Fox2Code program....
.... I took the liberty of running a web search to try and piece it together for everyone's sake..... if you feel that any straggler posts remain.... (stemming from your original off-topic post)...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when that someone reported my post, did he/she request you to create a new thread? you could've simply deleted that post, since you seemed to agree with him/her that it was ot.
@meric57, @Stillhard, @huskydg all mentioned 'fox' - check screenshots in my post above - those posts remain in place (i didn't even mention that name, did i?). if a thread had to be created, at all, it had to be in @meric57's name.
it's surprising, to put it mildly, that you don't get the picture although marked screenshots have been provided in serial order for quick perusal.
it may be noted that the closing sentence in my first post here (the first three posts are by the mods) was to delete the thread.

m0han said:
it's surprising, to put it mildly, that you don't get the picture although marked screenshots have been provided in serial order for quick perusal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I find most surprising is that you're putting us on the spot here without any clear reason. This isn't the first time that you're challenging us with your vision on how we should moderate. If you think it's that easy and you can do better, then by all means: become a moderator. But I will not have my team mates being insulted for doing their volunteer work in good conscience. Such lack of respect for all what we do for this community is unfounded and uncalled for. For what, even? Because we didn't cater to your needs and you feel we have some sort of bias in an internet forum cleanup? All while we are always up for discussing this with anyone that has any questions about our moderation. You will need to bring some harder evidence to the table before ridiculing us like that. We will always approach a cleanup in a way that we feel is the most objective one and of course that will disadvantage some people. That is just a reality we all have to deal with in all sorts of aspects in life.
m0han said:
it may be noted that the closing sentence in my first post here (the first three posts are by the mods) was to delete the thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not how it works, though! You can't just insult us and then tell us to wipe it under the rug in the same breath. You've picked your battle and now we'll settle it. Throw anything at us and we'll gladly explain our actions.
It still doesn't make any sense to me what any of us did wrong here. Only 3 of your posts were removed on August 5 in a large cleanup of "Magisk General Support / Discussion", which we have already discussed in private, after which you stated to me: "Case closed. Thank you.". In that private conversation I stated "...such busy threads are really hard to moderate and it requires a tremendous amount of patience to remain neutral all the time. I am not immune to this either, we are still human beings. We do try hard though ", which still very much stands.
After that one more of your posts was removed last Saturday, which contained "i feel for you", a response you outed to another member that had mildly insulted you with the words "you mad?", which was also removed.
Are you know hunting other members that post anything even remotely off topic? Because we'll only step in if we feel it's needed to, not because you're telling us to. That doesn't go well with any form of authority. That said, all of our members are encouraged to report anything that potentially violates our terms and we will 100% look into it.

Timmmmaaahh! said:
What I find most surprising is that.... You can't just insult us and then tell us to wipe it under the rug in the same breath..... all of our members are encouraged to report anything that potentially violates our terms and we will 100% look into it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I find utmost surprising is that you still don't see that it was not me who started with 'fox'; yet you chose my post to start the thread. Why? Is somebody 'reporting it' reason enough to drag someone else into a mess?
So, you're saying 'xda mods can be funny' (wonder if haha-funny would've been ok, as you seemed to imply) is insulting and 'you mad?' is not, as is mentioning contents of PMs in open threads.
Anything I do is wrong and anything the mods do is A-OK, right? I think I know where this is headed.

m0han said:
when that someone reported my post, did he/she request you to create a new thread? you could've simply deleted that post, since you seemed to agree with him/her that it was ot.
@meric57, @Stillhard, @huskydg all mentioned 'fox' - check screenshots in my post above - those posts remain in place (i didn't even mention that name, did i?). if a thread had to be created, at all, it had to be in @meric57's name.
it's surprising, to put it mildly, that you don't get the picture although marked screenshots have been provided in serial order for quick perusal.
it may be noted that the closing sentence in my first post here (the first three posts are by the mods) was to delete the thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The person who reported the post did not request that I split the off-topic chatter into its own thread. My own common sense requested that. I try not to make a habit of deleting posts for no reason, so that is the reason for the chosen course of action.
m0han said:
What I find utmost surprising is that you still don't see that it was not me who started with 'fox'; yet you chose my post to start the thread. Why? Is somebody 'reporting it' reason enough to drag someone else into a mess?
So, you're saying 'xda mods can be funny' (wonder if haha-funny would've been ok, as you seemed to imply) is insulting and 'you mad?' is not, as is mentioning contents of PMs in open threads.
Anything I do is wrong and anything the mods do is A-OK, right? I think I know where this is headed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you feel that there were other posts that should also have been grafted into this thread, you're welcome to let me know. At the time, during my brief assessment, I moved only the posts that appeared to be obviously and directly related. Sometimes, during this cleanup process, it is possible that some items were missed.
Anything you do is wrong, as long as it's not right. Keeping the forums clean is everyone's responsibility, however, so I hope that this answers your question adequately.

Bill720 said:
The person who reported the post did not request that I split the off-topic chatter into its own thread. My own common sense requested that. I try not to make a habit of deleting posts for no reason.... there were other posts that should also have been grafted into this thread..... it is possible that some items were missed.... I hope that this answers your question adequately.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it does not. Let me try to elucidate - again: It was not me who started with 'fox'; yet you chose my post to start the thread. That is wrong, since it is not right.
You, being a mod, can move the first post regarding 'fox' to the top of this thread making it the 'op'; everything else can follow that in chronological order.
And, you can go ahead and move all the other 'fox' posts to this thread since you term them as that being off-topic in the threads they are in at the moment - if you don't plan/wish to delete them, i.e.
Since you seem to have difficulty getting the picture from the screenshots provided, here are the links, for your convenience:
1. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344169
2. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87344607
3. https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...p-edits-and-more-v6-1-2.3789228/post-87384473
from another thread:
from: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...third-party-magisk-fork.4460555/post-87379839
to: https://forum.xda-developers.com/t/...third-party-magisk-fork.4460555/post-87386063

Hello everyone, no need to worry about this. I am seeing on gitub with fox2code for this problem which persists, today updated 0.6.3 of fox manager for magisk rebelotte. message in red and magisk root absent so I have to reflash with odin.

I've moved the relevant posts over.
m0han said:
What I find utmost surprising is that you still don't see that it was not me who started with 'fox'; yet you chose my post to start the thread. Why? Is somebody 'reporting it' reason enough to drag someone else into a mess?
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Having your post moved over to a dedicated thread - making you the op - is dragging you into a mess? Okay. Solved. When we receive a report about something it catches our attention, we will act or we won't as we deem necessary.
m0han said:
So, you're saying 'xda mods can be funny' (wonder if haha-funny would've been ok, as you seemed to imply) is insulting and 'you mad?' is not, as is mentioning contents of PMs in open threads.
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Oh, we're hilarious, but it turns a bit darker when someone's throwing insults at us. Again, that 'mad' part was also removed, which is us saying it's not allowed. You're again twisting this to discredit us.
m0han said:
Anything I do is wrong and anything the mods do is A-OK, right? I think I know where this is headed.
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Just the insults, that was the breaking point. So please, take a lesson from all this: if you believe thread maintenance wasn't performed properly, find out which mod performed it (ask any mod) and address them privately. Or just make another report. Then explain what should've been done differently in a friendly manner. And no, of course we're not perfect or everything we do is always "A-OK", that's what I also kept communicating. Just know that we do our very best to keep this community clean and welcoming to all and there's much more than meets the eye to achieve that goal.