Related
http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=AndroidPlans&thread.id=1785
You know they already know about it, so don't give me crap for "Letting the cat out of the bag"
Bump the thread please and lets try to make this a t-mobile policy.
(probably will never happen, but if we can convince them that this polocy will gain them customers it may)
The post for those too lazy to go and read it
Currently there is a way to add your google voice number to MyFaves and avoid using any minutes for almost any call.
I don't know if this is "Working as intended" or is an unplaned gaff....
Let me tell you why T-Mobile should not only let this happen, but encourage this.
I have a G1, cheapest plans possible. my bill is around 60 bucks a month...
If this MyFaves/GV trick became something i could count on here are the actions i will take with out question.
I will Buy my wife the MyTouch (canceling her current Virgin Mobile pay as u go plan)
I will change my calling plan to a "MyFaves" famlie plan
I will have unlimmited data plans on both phones.
I will cancle my current home phone (Vonage)
My T-mobile monthly bill will go from $60 a month to over $125, and it will become my and my wife's main phone lines.
Also with work/friends i am the known "Android hacker" and people listen to me...
When i tell people about this possiblity they get excited and want in on it.
T-Mobile... be the "Data Pipe" Google wants you to be, you will gain subscribers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
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ekeefe41 said:
http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=AndroidPlans&thread.id=1785
You know they already know about it, so don't give me crap for "Letting the cat out of the bag"
Bump the thread please and lets try to make this a t-mobile policy.
(probably will never happen, but if we can convince them that this polocy will gain them customers it may)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, they know about it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to give them the impression that this is a mainstream usage scenario.
Often service providers will tolerate a small percentage (lets say 1-5%) of their customerbase that uses a signficantly larger proportion of bandwidth than average. They may be losing money on these customers, but as long as the loss is lower than the loss that would be incurred due to negative press from terminating those customers, they will let the small percentage slide.
By bumping/posting that thread, you are basically giving T-Mo (and any other carrier with similar pricing) a reason on a silver plate to go and shut the MyFaves "loophole" right now. Kudos.
*Note: I don't have MyFaves, so I could really not care less how it turns out from a personal standpoint.
jashsu said:
Yes, they know about it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to give them the impression that this is a mainstream usage scenario.
Often service providers will tolerate a small percentage (lets say 1-5%) of their customerbase that uses a signficantly larger proportion of bandwidth than average. They may be losing money on these customers, but as long as the loss is lower than the loss that would be incurred due to negative press from terminating those customers, they will let the small percentage slide.
By bumping/posting that thread, you are basically giving T-Mo (and any other carrier with similar pricing) a reason on a silver plate to go and shut the MyFaves "loophole" right now. Kudos.
*Note: I don't have MyFaves, so I could really not care less how it turns out from a personal standpoint.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't have said this all better myself.
To OP: Be happy with the loophole you have now. Make this mainstream and you'll see the loophole closed up nice and quick.
Here is the thing...
I personally will not do the things in my post unless i can confirm it is something i can rely on.
scenario
I buy a 2nd phone for the wife
I cancel my home (Vonage) phone line
I then begin to rely on this piggy backing as a part of my monthly finances...
BOOM
T-mobile closes the loophole.
I am stuck with an extra phone/Plan that i can't get out of....
My bill goes through the roof because these phones are now our only voice option.
Until i get a confirmation from T-Mobile i will push the issue...
If it ruins it for everyone... so be it
When it comes to contracts and my monthly finances, there is no room for guess work.
ekeefe41 said:
If it ruins it for everyone... so be it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha. I like your attitude!
When it comes to contracts and my monthly finances, there is no room for guess work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then... why are you relying on beta services and loopholes for your core telecommunications?
It seems to me that what you need to get is one of those truly unlimited in-region calling (I think MetroPCS has something like that? Also T-Mo has the Unlimited Loyalty Plan.) You can be assured that you'll be billed a flat monthly rate that way regardless of your usage and regardless of whether or not you are routing through GV.
I love the flimsy rationalization going on this thread.
jashsu said:
Haha. I like your attitude!
Then... why are you relying on beta services and loopholes for your core telecommunications?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not quite...
I have the G1 $60-month
Wife has a pay as you go $20ish-month
home phone is vonage $30-month
About $110 a month for phone services.
If this loophole/beta service turns to be legit. Then I will make major changes to my phone providers. (like i explained in my T-mobile post)
Oh yea... I am cheap and a control freak when it comes to contracts and bills.
uberingram said:
I love the flimsy rationalization going on this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please explain your self.
If i am going to agree to additional contracts, i need to know the scope of what is allowed and what is not for my own protection.
ekeefe41 said:
Please explain your self.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) Your life's micromanagement must make you a joy to be around
2) jashsu said it best. You are giving carriers a reason to enforce "Fav" calling to individuals and not blanket numbers. The phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" only applies if annoying customer (e.g. you) is the only one affected. This is not the case here. Especially since Google purchased the 1 million some odd numbers from Level 3.
3) You're using a known buggy service that's very still much in beta as your sole means of telecommunication. For someone so uptight about control that seems oddly, and stupidly, out of character.
4) It's stupid to think that this will actually gain customers. There are a fixed number of Google Voice numbers in existence and I can pretty much assure you they are all spoken for.
Edit: Just to elaborate on #4, Last night I used the call back feature of GV. Do you know how long it took the service to ring my phone? 8 minutes. That's perfectly acceptable for your only means of telecommunication.
ekeefe41 said:
If this loophole/beta service turns to be legit. Then I will make major changes to my phone providers. (like i explained in my T-mobile post)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know what industry you work in, but let me just put it bluntly and say that generally large multinational corporations don't make potentially significant alterations to their business plan based on whiny posts on their forums. It is questionable whether anyone with the authority to make a declaration of the kind you are hoping for even reads or has a pr secretary that reads that forum on t-mobile.com.
If (and i'm not holding my breath here) they legitimize unlimited calling in some kind of promotion/profit-sharing deal with Google, that was probably planned months in advance by a team of profit-cost analysts and in no way whatsoever did they give two ****s about your petition. I can just about guarantee that.
uberingram said:
1) Your life's micromanagement must make you a joy to be around
2) jashsu said it best. You are giving carriers a reason to enforce "Fav" calling to individuals and not blanket numbers. The phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" only applies if annoying customer (e.g. you) is the only one affected. This is not the case here. Especially since Google purchased the 1 million some odd numbers from Level 3.
3) You're using a known buggy service that's very still much in beta as your sole means of telecommunication. For someone so uptight about control that seems oddly, and stupidly, out of character.
4) It's stupid to think that this will actually gain customers. There are a fixed number of Google Voice numbers in existence and I can pretty much assure you they are all spoken for.
Edit: Just to elaborate on #4, Last night I used the call back feature of GV. Do you know how long it took the service to ring my phone? 8 minutes. That's perfectly acceptable for your only means of telecommunication.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only thing i manage like this is my bills....
Wife does not even know the password to our banking acc...
It is not even something we discuss, it is something i just handle..
So in fact, i am a pleasure to be around, because it is something i just do, and never talk about.
But thanks for trying to be insulting.
I have been using GV for almost a week now, no 8 minute, no bugs.
The service has been good enough that i am considering major changes to my service providers. A change that would give me more functionality at almost the same cost...
I am not sure i fully grasp your hostility.
Any contract i am involved with i like to know everything i can.
If that is strange to you... well that's your issue.
ekeefe41 said:
The only thing i manage like this is my bills....
Wife does not even know the password to our banking acc...
It is not even something we discuss, it is something i just handle..
So in fact, i am a pleasure to be around, because it is something i just do, and never talk about.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to take this thread too far off-topic, and in no way should this be taken as an insult, but i'd be pretty concerned if my partner opened a joint bank account and didn't share the password. Maybe that's just me though...
Have you perhaps considered the possibility that you just think you're pleasurable to be around?
jashsu said:
I don't know what industry you work in, but let me just put it bluntly and say that generally large multinational corporations don't make potentially significant alterations to their business plan based on whiny posts on their forums. It is questionable whether anyone with the authority to make a declaration of the kind you are hoping for even reads or has a pr secretary that reads that forum on t-mobile.com.
If (and i'm not holding my breath here) they legitimize unlimited calling in some kind of promotion/profit-sharing deal with Google, that was probably planned months in advance by a team of profit-cost analysts and in no way whatsoever did they give two ****s about your petition. I can just about guarantee that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I suppose it is less a petition, and more of a wish for clarification.
I know for a fact that google would like ISP's and Tel-Co to be more like a "Pipe" for data. With Google controlling as much content as they can (for advertisement $$)
This Google Voice product is a perfect example of this coming to fruition.
All you need is one TelCo jumping on board and prices come down for everyone.
Thank you for calling my post "whiny"... i was trying to make a point. I must have done a poor job.
ekeefe41 said:
If it ruins it for everyone... so be it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a ****ty attitude and goes against everything this forum stands for. It sounds like a child, if I cant have it then no body will. I just hope you realize your place, you should be thankful you have a FREE Google voice number and that there are ways of saving large amounts of money through minor hacks. If you can use them to your advantage then awesome, if not, then oh well you arent loosing anything. I just think you would get a much better reception if you came into this looking for help and trying to help the community instead of the ultimatum you have presented us with.
jashsu said:
I don't want to take this thread too far off-topic, and in no way should this be taken as an insult, but i'd be pretty concerned if my partner opened a joint bank account and didn't share the password. Maybe that's just me though...
Have you perhaps considered the possibility that you just think you're pleasurable to be around?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ha ha ha!
I have like a "Quiz" day with her every once in a while.. aka, if i died could you access our bank accounts.
She Fails on a regular basis.
She does not have access to this stuff by my choice, in fact i have given it to her multiple times, multiple ways for her to remember.
She wants nothing to do with it.
It's not that i am a control freak... it's that she is lazy and does not want to concern her self with this stuff.
But yea, we have spiraled way too far in to my personal life, hehe
brandenk said:
That is a ****ty attitude and goes against everything this forum stands for. It sounds like a child, if I cant have it then no body will. I just hope you realize your place, you should be thankful you have a FREE Google voice number and that there are ways of saving large amounts of money through minor hacks. If you can use them to your advantage then awesome, if not, then oh well you arent loosing anything. I just think you would get a much better reception if you came into this looking for help and trying to help the community instead of the ultimatum you have presented us with.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am asking people to bump the thread in the t-mobile thread... if they like the idea of this piggybacking.
I myself, for the way i treat bills and contracts, need specific clarification so i will keep pushing regardless.
If you don't agree, then don't bump the t-Mobile thread.
Ugg.... never mind.
It looks like it is official a bug (not intended)
http://devin.reams.me/free-google-voice-calls-with-t-mobile-myfaves/
UPDATE: as mentioned by Josiah in the comments, this violates this statement on T-Mobile’s website: “Your five numbers must be US domestic numbers and must not include … customers’ own numbers; and single numbers allowing access to 500 or more persons.”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
aad4321 said:
yeah but because you wont have free incoming you will have to set the gv number to show on an incoming call and add it to the fav5. long story short u will not know who i calling you unless you have that stupid press 1 to accept thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would be the big limitation
But with google voice you can listen in on the message before you pick up
yea this needs a lot of clearing up....gvoice isnt widely available
UMA
ekeefe41 said:
Not quite...
I have the G1 $60-month
Wife has a pay as you go $20ish-month
home phone is vonage $30-month
About $110 a month for phone services.
If this loophole/beta service turns to be legit. Then I will make major changes to my phone providers. (like i explained in my T-mobile post)
Oh yea... I am cheap and a control freak when it comes to contracts and bills.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
why dont you get a UMA phone form T-mobile, for a few bucks a month and drop your Vonage right there saves u about 25$
Haha I love fakes like this. They tend to make me laugh
This email I just got for example, heres the text;
"Subject: Device Seeding Program for Top Android Market Developers
From: [email protected]
Due to your contribution to the success of Android Market, we would like to present you with a brand new Android device as part of our developer device seeding program. You are receiving this message because you're one of the top developers in Android Market with one or more of your applications having a 3.5 star or higher rating and more than 5,000 unique downloads.
In order to receive this device, you must click through to this site, read the terms and conditions of the offer and fill out the registration form to give us your current mailing address so that we can ship your device.
You will receive either a Verizon Droid by Motorola or a Nexus One. Developers with mailing addresses in the US will receive either a Droid or Nexus one, based on random distribution. Developers from Canada, EU, and the EEA states (Norway, Lichtenstein), Switzerland, Hong Kong, Taiwan, and Singapore will receive a Nexus One. Developers with mailing addresses in countries not listed above will not receive a phone since these phones are not certified to be used in other countries.
We hope that you will enjoy your new device and continue to build more insanely popular apps for Android!
Thanks,
Eric Chu
Android Mobile Platform
Google, Inc.
1600 Amphitheater Parkway
Mountain View, CA 94043
NOTE: You have received this mandatory email to notify you about an important update to the status of your Android account. "
The page it links to is (link changed just in case). I like the way it's on Google Sites instead of a real Google webpage, and the registration form is just an inlay of Google Docs with some info. Not sure I can see a point in this one, since it doesn't ask for any critical information except address & phone number, but pretty funny none the less lol.
EDIT: Also, by the way, I am a developer on the market with an app that meets the criteria, so it is targeted at the right person, but I just think it seems fake lol.
EDIT 2: AndroidAndMe is reporting it, it appears to be legit.
oops, ****. I filled it in O_O
reported the site though?, not sure how much they can get with that little bit of info...
and just for the record, google has used google docs before for forms.
I used one for switching my gvoice from one account to another
<blank> said:
oops, ****. I filled it in O_O
reported the site though?, not sure how much they can get with that little bit of info...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats what I was wondering too. I figure I'll wait and see if I see anything else about it, the requirements are pretty lax, so I figure quite a few people got it. I'll see what people say and if it turns out real I'm all for it lol.
Well it sounds kind of "too good to be true" and when it does it usually is.
However, check the mail headers. The sending server is one known to be used for Google mass mailings. Check for example
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/AdSense/thread?tid=127d121c2bc9d7a1&hl=en
It also seems like all the IP's involved checks out (ie are real Google IP's)
I got one of these mails as well and I do qualify. Sure hope it's legit.
jonasl said:
Well it sounds kind of "too good to be true" and when it does it usually is.
However, check the mail headers. The sending server is one known to be used for Google mass mailings. Check for example
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/AdSense/thread?tid=127d121c2bc9d7a1&hl=en
It also seems like all the IP's involved checks out (ie are real Google IP's)
I got one of these mails as well and I do qualify. Sure hope it's legit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats what I thought. What throws me off is it being on a Google Site instead of a real Google hosted page. I filled it out, since there is no personal info required really, and I hope its legit, but I don't hold high hope lol
The headers seem to be legit, and Google has used Google Sites before (the Wave Developer preview signup was through a Google Site). Unless someone hacked Google servers to send people emails just to steal peoples' addresses, order numbers (quite useless), and phone numbers.
Update: I see a lot of people think this offer is too good to be true and have concerns of a phishing scam. I’ve reached out to my contact at Google and will post a response if I get one. From what I can tell, the email appeared to be legit.
Update 2: Roman Nurik, Android Developer Relations for Google, states that this is real on the official Android Developers Google Group.
Update 3: I received a second confirmation from an official Google spokesperson.
“A thriving developer community is an important part of creating a better mobile experience for users around the world. We hope that offering devices to developers will make it easier for them to create and test great applications. This is inline with other efforts to support developers, which also includes our Android Developer Labs World Tour and our upcoming participation at the Game Developers Conference.”
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://androidandme.com/2010/03/new...-devs-with-free-phone-in-new-seeding-program/
LinkinX said:
http://androidandme.com/2010/03/new...-devs-with-free-phone-in-new-seeding-program/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hot damn! I hope I gets me mah Nexus!! Lmao
I could always use another Nexus...one for each hand
I think this is great. Gives the developers reason to keep working. Looks like google actually has taken notice. Good for all.
So I'm doing a persuasive speech about people should not give up their social network account and password or privacy to an employer.
Some might say that the solution is to don't use these social networking sites and just go out there and have a real life. Or just use a fake account and hand that over to the employer. However, I think that's not really the way to solve it. Yes, it might solve the problem for NOW. But what about in the long run? These scenarios would only get worse if these employers are allowed to invade people's privacy because no one's complaining about it and they would think that what they're doing is not wrong.
Here's the example of what I'm thinking:
Employer: What's your Facebook account and password?
Applicant: *gives the employer his/her login information
Employer: Thank you. We'll let you know if we're interested in hiring you.
Interview is over...
Employer(thinking): Hmm... So people are handing over their account... Maybe next time I'll ask for their emails...
So what do you guys think about this?
P.S. Sorry for the wrong grammars...
What if the employee is asked to sign an contract that states what the employer can do and can't do, like conditions?
htc fan89 said:
What if the employee is asked to sign an contract that states what the employer can do and can't do, like conditions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then the employee will have to either take it or leave it... then asking for such private information would become standard and people are obliged to give up their privacy just for a job opportunity.
Please read the following bad news.
https://www.facebook.com/CyanogenMod/posts/10152367978770425
We at CM are very trusting of our members, showed by both respect and permissions granted to those people we consider part of the team. Last month, this trust was violated in a substantial way. In the spirit of openness, here is what happened.
CM’s history is well established, with Cyanogen releasing his original ROM for the G1 on XDA forums. Back then, there was no “CyanogenMod” in terms of the organization and structure that we have today. The builds were hosted on Steve’s personal machine, the original server was a donation of spare kit from Phaseburn. And due to the small size (and lack of funds), the CyanogenMod.com domain was bought by a third-party back in 2009 and donated to CM, when CM was a much smaller project and had no online presence besides XDA.
Fast-forward 3 years, we have 3 extremely powerful build boxes donated by the community and an army of developers, contributors, and supported devices. But, a little over a week ago, things took a bad turn. The person owning the CyanogenMod.com domain was caught impersonating Steve to make referral deals with community sites. When confronted and asked to hand over control of the domain amicably, he decided he wanted 10K USD for it, which we won't (and can't) pay.
We contacted those he had established deals with, only to discover that the person tasked with maintaining our web presence was setting up deals under the CM name, and impersonating Cyanogen himself. Plenty of satisfying evidence was provided by those sites / entities to make us certain that this wasn't a misunderstanding or one-time thing.
This leaves us at a critical impasse. Being trusted with CM’s web presence means this member had control over the CM social network accounts (Twitter/FB) as well as domains (cyanogenmod.com). We have changed ownership of the social media accounts. When asked again to make the transition nicely, he responded with the following
“Hi, so you think by removing all my access across the infrastructure was going to be a great idea? We had a chat yesterday, you've decided to end this bitter. How about I just change the DNS entries right now. CM will practically go down.”
Refusing to be extorted for funds, and then being threatened is “ending it bitter”? Today, it happened: all of our records were deleted, and cyanogenmod.com is slowly expiring out of the Internet and being replaced by blank pages and non-existing sites. @cyanogenmod.com e-mail is now being directed to a mailserver completely out of our control, too.
We have begun the dispute process with ICANN to reclaim our domain. In the meantime, please utilize CyanogenMod.org and all applicable subdomains.
As mentioned, this member also managed our Google Apps for Business account, and therefore our @cyanogenmod.com email addresses. These addresses should be considered discontinued until further notice. We will be contacting the Google team to reclaim rights to the apps account. In the meantime, please contact [email protected] for any devrel questions or other issues. A mailserver is being established to transition devrel and other support email addresses. We will provide those when they are finalized, and they will utilize the .org domain.
We don’t like how this played out, and we are deeply hurt. Likewise, we are deeply saddened at the confusion this may have caused the community. We will continue to be open about the what, when, how, but unfortunately, we may never know the ‘why’ - though greed comes to mind. The team itself has not made a profit off of CM and that is not our goal. But to have one of our own betray the community like this is beyond our comprehension. We will update you all as things progress.
Know that we are pursuing every available legal means to regain control over our domain.
Please note, all donations that were given directly to Cyanogen (aka [email protected]) did indeed reach their destination and are not affected.
If you are a company out there that believes they have also entered into agreements with “CM” by this person impersonating Steve, please contact [email protected]. We’d like to get a handle on how widespread this was before we file charges.
-The CyanogenMod Team
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that really sucks! sad news about people acting like assholes, again.
Sad, how one greedy person can destroy a brand, lets hope cm team make a full recovery.
Sent from my LT30p using xda app-developers app
Loyalty is a precious thing.
Sent from my LT30at using xda app-developers app
http://www.cyanogenmod.org/blog/domain-situation-has-been-resolved
things move quick...
(ciwrl wrote this, I’m just posting on his behalf so this is resolved)
So earlier today we put up a post on what prompted us to transition to our new CyanogenMod.org domain. We refrained from identifying the ex-member out of respect for his privacy and career outside of CM. Suffice it to say you guys aren’t slouches, and figured it out on your own.
With that said, the ex-member in question contacted us and has agreed to hand over control of the CyanogenMod.com domain. This was done as amicably as these things can be, and CM did not pay the fee he requested.
We will still be using CyanogenMod.org as our primary domain, and the .com address will simply redirect to this new domain. Ironically enough, ‘.org’ is better than ‘.com’ as we are not a commercial entity, and is far more in line with how CyanogenMod is structured.
We received a common question, that we’d like to take a moment to answer. Some of you contacted us mentioning that you had previously donated to a different address. When the forum began, up until about 3 months ago, the forum utilized this other address as the mechanism for forum donations and establishment of the ‘Donator’ badge. Donations made to this address prior to three months ago were used for the CyanogenMod forum IPB licence and forum related costs and were not misappropriated.
On a side note, we have also gone through internal restructuring to make sure that this sort of thing doesn’t happen again. Nobody has control over everything, and there is no longer such a large single-point of failure. Our lessons have been learned.
We ask that you please not perform any vigilante actions, we do not condone any such thing; just let this fade.
We want to move on, get you the builds you expect from us, and not mess around with distractions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
glad things worked out so quickly
hopefully this won't happen again, at least not so easily.
Forgive me if this thread is out of place. I mean everything I say with the greatest respect for omnirom's devs and users.
I found out about omnirom recently. I was struck by its motto: "Omni isn’t better, just different." There has to be a better reason to go to the trouble of building a rom that's only going to be slightly different from AOSP or Cyanogenmod.
I want to make a suggestion. As a new android rom, why not fill a need in the community instead of saying, we've got nothing better to offer you, only something different. Novelty wears off and people want more than just "different" from their operating systems.
Can I suggest a huge glaring need in the Android rom space that no major mod is filling? Security and Privacy.
The NSA and other intelligence agencies and corporations are launching attacks on people. Even Google is doing that. Months after I got my new android device, I was shocked when I found that Android was uploading all my contacts and other data to google's servers without asking me.
Read this article (Ars Technica: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary) to see how Google is making a walled garden with Android.
With 4.4, Google seems to be going even further. They won't stop. Google is using android as a trojan horse to collect information from people and sell it. Facebook is also doing it. The NSA is doing it.
Is there anybody out there who respects people and their privacy any more? I can't think of any major rom that does it.
Omnirom has xplodwild, Dees_Troy and Chainfire and many other talented developers, but why is the only thing they offer us a slightly different rom?!
We techsavvy people want more from our roms than that. Our pressing need in this day and age is not split screen apps. We're being constantly spied on by everybody and being monetised by everyone. What about end-to-end email security via Mailpile and the Dark Mail alliance? What about the Freedombox project?
Omnirom's description says, "Omni is what custom ROMs used to be about – innovation, new features, transparency, community, and freedom." Every android rom innovates new features and they're all open source because Android is open source. Most of them have a community focus. How is Omnirom any different?
Every project needs a reason to exist. I can't see omnirom's reason for existence.
There is a lack of respect for people by governments and corporations. They seek to use us or buy and sell us. Omnirom has the chance to fill a need in FOSS android world: A rom that respects and protects the data and the individual from legalized spying.
Let me respectfully ask this question. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to put all your talents to something useful and filling a need in the android world instead of being another flavour of stock Android?
Hoodahottie said:
Forgive me if this thread is out of place. I mean everything I say with the greatest respect for omnirom's devs and users.
I found out about omnirom recently. I was struck by its motto: "Omni isn’t better, just different." There has to be a better reason to go to the trouble of building a rom that's only going to be slightly different from AOSP or Cyanogenmod.
I want to make a suggestion. As a new android rom, why not fill a need in the community instead of saying, we've got nothing better to offer you, only something different. Novelty wears off and people want more than just "different" from their operating systems.
Can I suggest a huge glaring need in the Android rom space that no major mod is filling? Security and Privacy.
The NSA and other intelligence agencies and corporations are launching attacks on people. Even Google is doing that. Months after I got my new android device, I was shocked when I found that Android was uploading all my contacts and other data to google's servers without asking me.
Read this article (Ars Technica: Google’s iron grip on Android: Controlling open source by any means necessary) to see how Google is making a walled garden with Android.
With 4.4, Google seems to be going even further. They won't stop. Google is using android as a trojan horse to collect information from people and sell it. Facebook is also doing it. The NSA is doing it.
Is there anybody out there who respects people and their privacy any more? I can't think of any major rom that does it.
Omnirom has xplodwild, Dees_Troy and Chainfire and many other talented developers, but why is the only thing they offer us a slightly different rom?!
We techsavvy people want more from our roms than that. Our pressing need in this day and age is not split screen apps. We're being constantly spied on by everybody and being monetised by everyone. What about end-to-end email security via Mailpile and the Dark Mail alliance? What about the Freedombox project?
Omnirom's description says, "Omni is what custom ROMs used to be about – innovation, new features, transparency, community, and freedom." Every android rom innovates new features and they're all open source because Android is open source. Most of them have a community focus. How is Omnirom any different?
Every project needs a reason to exist. I can't see omnirom's reason for existence.
There is a lack of respect for people by governments and corporations. They seek to use us or buy and sell us. Omnirom has the chance to fill a need in FOSS android world: A rom that respects and protects the data and the individual from legalized spying.
Let me respectfully ask this question. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to put all your talents to something useful and filling a need in the android world instead of being another flavour of stock Android?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Something that perhaps doesn't come across when reading about Omni is about our thoughts on security and privacy. I'm one of the loudest complainers about the actions of a few companies (Google being the main one), who are using Android as a platform to spy on people.
Make no mistake, Omni will seek to address that. One issue the community faces though is that it is currently at the ebb and whim of Google. If Google decide to do X, pretty much every custom ROM has no real choice other than to follow. The aim of Omni is to offer an alternative "upstream" to look towards, when you find out that Google has started to call home every inbound phone number that it doesn't "recognise", in order to find out if it's a company from Google Maps/Local... And presumably log that forever more with your account...
This is a timely question with a very reassuring response. There is F-Droid instead of PlayStore (but it tends to be a few months behind) and OsmAnd instead of Maps (which is better in some ways). I would like to see more in this direction too.
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
pulser_g2 said:
Something that perhaps doesn't come across when reading about Omni is about our thoughts on security and privacy. I'm one of the loudest complainers about the actions of a few companies (Google being the main one), who are using Android as a platform to spy on people.
Make no mistake, Omni will seek to address that. One issue the community faces though is that it is currently at the ebb and whim of Google. If Google decide to do X, pretty much every custom ROM has no real choice other than to follow. The aim of Omni is to offer an alternative "upstream" to look towards, when you find out that Google has started to call home every inbound phone number that it doesn't "recognise", in order to find out if it's a company from Google Maps/Local... And presumably log that forever more with your account...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you thinking of implementing off the shelf carddav / caldav syncing? Instead of syncing with Google for calendar and contacts, you can sync with any other source (like ownCloud).
Something that Davdroid does.
I am using this setup on my own private Linux server the last few days and seems to work well.
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk 4
jonathanxx1 said:
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, this is the biggest problem that the security industry (ie. people like me) face, in trying to explain the issues here.
Here's a small example, to show you the problems, not specifically with the NSA, but with anything "cloud". Let's imagine a malicious attacker is going after you...
Let's look at your gmail account. It's likely that you signed up for it with your old Hotmail account (the previously most common type of email service). Most people did. It's also likely that you protect your Gmail account fairly well, but have likely not changed your Hotmail password in a while. That's likely the best way in for an attacker.
Now, before you say "OK, but what's the risk", let's take a look at what information is accessible to someone getting into your Google account.
Firstly, they know the details of all your android devices (IMEI etc) - they know what tablets you have, what phones you have, and their serial numbers and identifiers. They can also carry out a remote wipe on any of your devices via Mobile Device Manager. Let's come back to this later though
From Google Mail, they have a fair idea of what you're up to, based on your communications to other people. They can access your location history, and data-mine that, to figure out where you are. They can also look at your communications with other people via Hangouts and G+, and attempt to work out where you are (or simply use the GPS location). They can access the location sharing features of google's services, and see where you and your family are. They can see you're not at home (getting your address from an email), and go to your house, aware your kids are home alone, and rob the place, abducting them.
When you return home, you meet a scene of devastation. You take out your phone and call the cops. You call 911/999/112/whatever, but the call was intercepted and passed to the attackers, via software that was installed onto your phone remotely (via the play store's remote push system).
At this point, the attacker takes your phone, and puts you in the back of the van. He uses Google Device Manager, and removes the lockscreen password from your phone (via the forgot lockscreen code feature). This also resets your device encryption password to a known one. At this point, all the devices are turned off, and their SIMs removed, and you are driven to a remote location.
The attackers then call your partner (having got their number from your Google contacts), and demand $1 million, while telling your partner that you know they are currently in <name of place from their google shared location feature>. The same remote access toolkit is installed onto their phone (given they had used your email as a recovery email for their Google account), and this permits monitoring of their phone to check if they call 911 etc.
OK, that all sounds far-fetched, but that is all entirely possible. The sheer amount of data being held about you, by google and other cloud providers, is insane. I didn't even go into the possibility of financial theft here. Cellphones are a very important thing to people, and they often take them for granted. Would you consider that when you called 911 in a moment of need, that someone had remote-installed a piece of malicious software, which exploits an android security hole, to replace the dialer app, and route the call to a rogue attacker, pretending to be the emergency services?
The amount of control that "other people" have over a phone running "Google Apps" is immense. Don't just think about the "NSA" aspects of this - consider how devastating it would be if someone had access to your Google account. And now remember that anyone on the technical team of Google could (in theory) issue an access token to your account to a well-paying attacker...
Oh, and one of the best ways an attacker can get into your Google account is simply to steal a phone or tablet, and extract the Google authentication token. Sure, they might not be able to change your password, but they are now "into" the chain, and will be able to start the attack.
If this don't bother you, I don't know what will...
scanno said:
Are you thinking of implementing off the shelf carddav / caldav syncing? Instead of syncing with Google for calendar and contacts, you can sync with any other source (like ownCloud).
Something that Davdroid does.
I am using this setup on my own private Linux server the last few days and seems to work well.
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk 4
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I currently use {Card,Cal}dav syncing via my OwnCloud server. Thanks for the link to DavDroid, I'd not seen it before!
jonathanxx1 said:
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
So please devs, give us the option to be more independent from the big companies.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
I
pulser_g2 said:
I currently use {Card,Cal}dav syncing via my OwnCloud server. Thanks for the link to DavDroid, I'd not seen it before!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DavDroid is a pretty nice solution and you can set it up for multiple accounts.
I am still looking for a good note taking app (using Evernote now) to sync with my OwnCloud server.
Do you have any suggestions for a sort of Evernote replacement that can sync with OwnCloud?
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
boernie said:
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
So please devs, give us the option to be more independent from the big companies.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For your calendar and contacts there are solutions already. Main problem is where so you store your data. You will need your own server or trusted third party.
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
I'm trying to set up my own infrastructure
But I was surprised that there was not out-of-the-box solution to use CardDav and CalDav.
Maybe you could include the apps mentioned above as they are/will become open source.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
scanno said:
I
DavDroid is a pretty nice solution and you can set it up for multiple accounts.
I am still looking for a good note taking app (using Evernote now) to sync with my OwnCloud server.
Do you have any suggestions for a sort of Evernote replacement that can sync with OwnCloud?
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
For your calendar and contacts there are solutions already. Main problem is where so you store your data. You will need your own server or trusted third party.
Sent from my Xperia T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've found a nice notepad app, but none yet that use OwnCloud sync.
I was thinking about looking into https://github.com/spacecowboy/NotePad and trying to get it working with the API. It would be fairly easy to remove the "closed" bits like Dropbox sync etc, and use the OwnCloud backend. It would also be nice to add proper encryption of notes later on.
Anyone else interested? (I hate android app coding, I can't even get the dependencies to resolve for it to build... Thus contributing to my dislike for ANYTHING java based)
pulser_g2 said:
Something that perhaps doesn't come across when reading about Omni is about our thoughts on security and privacy. I'm one of the loudest complainers about the actions of a few companies (Google being the main one), who are using Android as a platform to spy on people.
Make no mistake, Omni will seek to address that. One issue the community faces though is that it is currently at the ebb and whim of Google. If Google decide to do X, pretty much every custom ROM has no real choice other than to follow. The aim of Omni is to offer an alternative "upstream" to look towards, when you find out that Google has started to call home every inbound phone number that it doesn't "recognise", in order to find out if it's a company from Google Maps/Local... And presumably log that forever more with your account...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm thrilled to hear this! Do other omnirom devs share your opinion?
I know it's early, but does the omnirom team have specific security/privacy ideas they want to implement?
In the long run, I don't see the Android ecosystem remaining in one piece. It's going to fragment. Amazon has already done it. Samsung may make this move. And people who want privacy and secure communications need a rom (and perhaps it's own app ecosystem) to which they can turn.
Please think about changing your why omnirom page. Right now, its pitch is very weak. Add a section about privacy and security and people will flock to this rom.
boernie said:
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
So please devs, give us the option to be more independent from the big companies.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm absolutely shocked every time I hear people say this. So many people just dismiss the NSA spying because they're not terrorists. They don't have the imagination it takes to understand that today's citizen is tomorrow's terrorist. Every country that spied on it's citizens has oppressed them.
I'm not a spy or terrorist, but I don't want my every thought and action logged away to be used against me later.
boernie said:
I'm trying to set up my own infrastructure
But I was surprised that there was not out-of-the-box solution to use CardDav and CalDav.
Maybe you could include the apps mentioned above as they are/will become open source.
Gesendet von meinem Find 5 mit Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't post links, but if you want your own secure cloud, look at the Freedombox project. It's Debian based and it has some radical ideas. Eben Moglen and Bdale garbee have worked on it since 2010. Eben Moglen's talk about countries spying on citizens came long before the NSA story came to light.
The website is kind of dead, but in August Bdale gave a talk where he said Freedombox 1.0 should come before 2014. It's on youtube.
boernie said:
It's shocking that so many people don't (want to?) see the actual problem. The whole spying system is not just about tracking down terrorists.
Google, Facebook, etc and even governmental institutions collect our data to predict and influence our future actions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is a pretty simple solution to this!
Don't behave like expected.
Sent from my Find 5 using Tapatalk
Hoodahottie said:
Even Google is doing that. Months after I got my new android device, I was shocked when I found that Android was uploading all my contacts and other data to google's servers without asking me.
We techsavvy people want more
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
With all due respect to the OP, the above is the major problem. While many of us are "tech savvy" to one degree or another, I think we forget how to read sometimes.
When you're given that stack of papers to sign for your mortgage, car loan, credit card or bank account, how many blindly sign where we are told to be the agent of that company? Do you read what you are signing? If you answer yes, why is setting up your phone any different? We are told that such and such information is going to be collected when we sign up for our Google accounts. We are told that additional information is going to be collected when we set up our phone. Every time we start up GPS services, we are told Google is going to use this data they collect.
This causes me to wonder why it takes people by surprise when they learn that Google isn't a computer hardware and software company, but a marketing company. And even more wonder happens when they mention it's without their knowledge. Reading terms of service is important. They spell out exactly what they are going to do and give you the option not to participate. When I worked for IBM in the 80's, I had to sign away any rights to technology I developed while working there (with the exception of anything I started before employment and listed on their agreement). If I didn't want to do that I was my choice to not work there. The same thing happened with Tricord, Wang, Computer Associates, MAI, Excactium, Pivotal, etc
The other response about the NSA is troubling as well. We elect our representatives in this country every two four or six years. How many of those people that you voted into office voted yes to the Patriot Act? You want some scary reading, research the rights we gave up allowing that to happen.
We are innocent until proven guilty. The NSA "spying" doesn't just ensnare terrorist, but easily the whole population of the USA. Their model of two, three and more levels of contact captures everyone. The real question isn't I'm not a terrorist so why does it matter, it is I'm not a terrorist so why are you doing it?
We setup up these phones with the knowledge we would be tracked. We walk down the street and see security cameras watching. Then we complain about it? We allowed it to happen to have a whiz bang new phone or to feel safer.
" Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
I work in retail. Every year I hear people complain that we set Christmas stuff too early. Those same people are buying their lights, cards and trees in the same visit. If they didn't buy early, we wouldn't set early. If we truly cared about not being used as marketing data, we wouldn't be using these phones. We wouldn't use Google.com to search. We wouldn't re-elect many of those in office at the local state and federal levels.
Sorry for the rant, I'll step of the soapbox and allow this discussion to get back on track.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
With no disrespect, I wonder if people who ask me to take full responsibility understand life and power.
I understand that I have to take some responsibility for signing on for services and programs, but I blame the government and corporations more because they are many times richer and more powerful than me.
And they take advantage of that.
How many Terms of service agreements have I had to sign to use internet services? If I really read all of their ToS, I wouldn't have time for anything else. I'll bet that the ceos of these companies haven't read the ToS of their own products. They don't have to because they have the money to hire 50 of the best lawyers and ask them to craft a bullet-proof ToS.
They probably spent tens of thousands of dollars on the ToS. And I stand against all of that money and power, with limited time and resources and no law degree. Am I the one to be blamed? They know I'm tired from work, that I don't have a legal background and my attention span is limited and I need this product, and there is no other choice unless I'm willing to suffer a lot.
Often these multinational corporations control the whole market and I don't really have any choice. Look at the phone OS market now. I can choose between Android, iOS or Windows Phone. My choices are an open source OS built to facilitate spying, an overpriced, closed source, simplistic OS built by a company that co-operates with the NSA or a closed source, proprietary phone from an industry giant accused of anti-competitive behaviour and also collaborating with the NSA.
There's no real choice. Not just in the phone industry, but in most places in life. Powerful people don't become powerful by giving everyone else choices and freedom. They take freedom away. You ask me to take responsibility as if I had another, better choice. Apple, Google and Microsoft ToS will be mostly similar and it'll always protect their interests. There are no other real choices. It's always been that way, and why I blame the government, corporations and powerful people more than myself.
To really win, I'd have to devote my life to fighting all these powerful forces and even if I win, I'll have to spend the rest of my life defending against other crooks who'd try to do the same thing. I wouldn't have any time left for a life.
"You ask me to take responsibility as if I had another, better choice."
Who else is responsible for your actions?
"Apple, Google and Microsoft ToS will be mostly similar and it'll always protect their interests. There are no other real choices."
Yes, these companies are in business to make money. That is no different than you having a job to make money.
But do not tell me you or Bill or Steve or Larry do not have à choice. Ever heard of CP/M? An Altair? AltaVista? If you haven't, here is some history.
CP/M was a dominant operating system before DOS. Bill Gates made a choice to create Altair Basic for the Altair microcomputer being sold mail-order. That was the start of Micro-Soft (now Microsoft). He made another choice to create MS-DOS to compete against CP/M for the IBM PC and clones. He made another choice to start work on Windows to compete against Apple's graphical interfaces and IBM's TopView.
Before Steve Jobs made the choice to sell Woz's garage built microcomputer (later named the Apple) there was the Altair mentioned above. They made a choice to build an alternative.
Larry Page and Sergey Brin made the choice to start Google, thinking they could do search better than AltaVista, Yahoo, Excite, HotBot, MetaCrawler, etc.
Powerful people become powerful many times by giving others alternatives. The above mentioned powerful people are examples.
We can make the choice to use prepaid basic phones and not worry about anyone watching us because you don't use personal information to activate.
"To really win, I'd have to devote my life to fighting all these powerful forces"
You should. Doing so makes you powerful. Recently two women changed how one of the world's largest food brands makes their products. One of them eventually dropped out of the spot light and it became the crusade of ONE woman. Kraft Foods is changing how they make some of their Mac and Cheese products due to the efforts of one individual. No more Yellow #5 in their Mac and Cheese products specifically marketed at children. That was a choice she made. A fight that became part of her life.
We all have choices. We are all responsible for our own actions. We can't blame government as a whole because they are largely elected by us. We work to make money to live the life we choose. Corporations (started by individuals) do the same thing.
Sorry again for diverting off topic, but I have a difficult time with responsibility shifting to account for mistakes. We all make them (this reply is probably one of mine). A wise person once said, the man who makes no mistake, usually doesn't make anything worthwhile.
This particular set of threads, all the Omni threads, are what make communities like this work. We can voice opinions, state facts, help with commands to build a repository, compile a kernel, even agree to disagree.
This is how XDA started, while maybe some sections have stayed from the roots, Omni has brought it back full circle.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
jonathanxx1 said:
IMO unless your a spy or a criminal I don't see why someone would care about all that NSA stuff.
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You may want to skim through this: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052748704471504574438900830760842
Some laws (in many? all? countries) are so loosely worded that you're probably breaking some of them right now. Now remember that the government/google/facebook/whoever is watching everything you do. If you ever become "a problem" you're not going to be too difficult to "deal with". Just a potential look at one of the many problems with complete surveillance.
You guys talk about this as if Google, Facebook and all these companies willingly gave up this information.
But the reality is this: the government (NSA) asks for the data. If the companies deny them this, the NSA then goes to obtain a generalized warrant from the FISA courts, secret courts with a 99.7% warrant approval rate, and then obtain the data regardless of what these companies want.
And for those of you who STILL think it's the companies, read this: http://www.washingtonpost.com/world...1d661e-4166-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html
---------- Post added at 10:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:31 AM ----------
And yes, these companies DO own your data. As soon as you click "I accept these terms" on the registration page, they are now the owners of everything that goes through their online services.
But, here's the catch. Companies are individuals too, as established in Citizens United v. FCC, and are protected under the same rights as any other individual. And it logically follows that because of this, it is a breach on each company's 4th amendment rights for the NSA to obtain generalized warrants, that list NO goal for the investigation, and use these in order to force each company to fork over account details among other things.
frustration pure
one of the most common arguments of those who don't care or don't want to face the
risks of others knowing anything or almost everything of us is:
i have nothing to hide so what !
now to make a point i would like to come up with a very simple and for many
perhaps a bit strange example but i think most will understand what i mean.
ALBEIT I'M ALLOWED TO MAKE LOVE TO MY WIFE AND IT'S TOTALLY LEGAL
AND RIGHT, I DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO LISTEN OR WATCH :laugh:
UNDERSTOOD ?
regards
+1
I've been lurking and decided to give my opinion. First though, let me give a little background. Two years ago I bought my first Nexus and I rooted it right away. I left the bootloader unlocked, the CWM recovery installed, and USB debugging left on. Any app that could log me in automatically I allowed...Ebay, Amazon, Gmail, etc. I thought I was doing a good job protecting my privacy by using a strong password lock and installing Lookout.
I had no idea how easy it was to gain access to all of my data. My ignorance would not have protected me. Now to today. I have a rooted phone, but the bootloader is locked with the stock recovery installed. I will install a custom rom when a good one is available, but the stock recovery will be re-flashed and the bootloader locked when I'm done. I still use Lookout. I'm using LastPass to manage unique strong passwords now...no more saving passwords. I'm waiting for ADB Toggle to be fixed for Kitkat and USB Debugging will be turned off when my phone plugs into a computer. I am constantly looking for ways to protect my data.
To have total convenience, you must give up privacy and security. To have total privacy and security, you must give up convenience. I know that google has access to EVERYTHING I do with my phone and am not happy about it. I try to be informed and balance convenience, privacy, and security.
:good: I second the suggestion that OmniROM should attempt to become the ROM for people who want to protect their privacy and security. :good: There is a lot that can be done at the operating system level that cannot be performed by individual apps. Sure, I love all the features that custom ROMs offer and look forward to see what can be done, but privacy and security are #1 for me.
If you agree, then +1 this post.