Database Develop

(Poll) What's your opinion on 3g?

As far as making and receiving phone calls, do you use 3g? Any phone I've ever seen that uses 3g absolutely sucks. My dad's phone, my mom's phone, my girlfriend's phone, my phone. What happens is the call either doesn't go through. If you listen to the dial tone it has a small click right before each tone, if I hear that, it mean's the call isn't going through.
My mom and girlfriend have gone through replacements on their phone, but the 3g still sucks. I've even noticed they don't get that great of reception.
Even on my Tilt, if I switch to 3G i only have 2 bars and apparently people have complained of calling me but I never received the call. Now with Edge, I have full bars, and no one ever complains about the call not going through.
So what's your guy's take on 3g?

Similar to what you've experienced. I generally leave mine turned off the majority of the time, since I have the WiFi running when I'm at home anyway. I turn it on only when I need to browse the web or something when I'm out and about.
Not to mention the immense battery drain that 3G demands. My battery life is dramatically better on Edge as opposed to 3G.

Your provider needs to update/fix their network. This is not a device issue, it's a network issue. Proper 3G (well, 3.5G / HSPA, not just UMTS per se) should also use less power than GSM / EDGE for transfers... (in watt/kbps, though)
I know for a fact that all devices in my signature (that support 3G) can work perfectly with 3G on a proper network.

Chainfire said:
Your provider needs to update/fix their network. This is not a device issue, it's a network issue. Proper 3G (well, 3.5G / HSPA, not just UMTS per se) should also use less power than GSM / EDGE for transfers... (in watt/kbps, though)
I know for a fact that all devices in my signature (that support 3G), plus the Touch HD, Omnia and i780 can work perfectly with 3G on a proper network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't experience network issues as bad as the OP seems to have, but I've always had terrible battery life on my Tilt and my iPhone, my two most recent 3G devices. My 8525 was actually very good on the battery with 3G running all day long, never had a problem getting through the day.
Maybe the intermittent GPS usage on the latter two? I don't know.

Chainfire said:
Your provider needs to update/fix their network. This is not a device issue, it's a network issue. Proper 3G (well, 3.5G / HSPA, not just UMTS per se) should also use less power than GSM / EDGE for transfers... (in watt/kbps, though)
I know for a fact that all devices in my signature (that support 3G) can work perfectly with 3G on a proper network.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I should go in and ask them about it, just to see what they say. Ask them why the new and greatest 3g is worse than edge. I have AT&T, I live in Washington, and I live right by a Cell tower too (only a 2 or 3 blocks away from it).

I woudln't mind using it for data but the fees here are prohibitive for private use. We use it on our work phones for data and it works well on Telstra.

mikeeey said:
I should go in and ask them about it, just to see what they say. Ask them why the new and greatest 3g is worse than edge. I have AT&T, I live in Washington, and I live right by a Cell tower too (only a 2 or 3 blocks away from it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They'll probably say it ain't so Thing is, when 3G first got rolled out here, we had much the same issues. The big providers here spent some $$$ to replace "faulty" hardware at the towers, and voila, the problem disappeared (2 years ago?). Seems many 3G networks around the world have similar issues to the ones you described in the opening post. I have a sneaking suspicion that one of the 3G cell-tower hardware manufacturers - probably the cheapest and hence most used - makes some really crappy equipment. I could almost imagine that manufacturer is Qualcomm
In all seriousness though, all I know for sure is we had these issues here too, and they fixed them by fixing the towers. (Though of course there is some difference between different devices and how well they do 3G)

From talking to some guys at work Telstra's 3G network has been pretty much flawless for them asides from cost issues associated with Telstra.

I live in indonesia and never have any problem with 3G,. , the only problem is, its expensive,. lol,.

I am in NZ
No problems with 3G whatsoever. Have Imate JasJar - loving every second of it.

New Jersey, USA
3G has always seem pretty good around here in New Jersey with AT&T, but I'm 25 minutes from New York, so imagine how many towers they have on the tri-state area (New York, New Jersey and Connecticut). Very rare to lose 3G reception (exept on the iPhone 3G that everybody complains about losing it often). But important to mention also is that Kearny, town where my sister lives, I lose reception a 100%, my phone's reception just dies, and when I switch it to GSM instead of 3G...voila. Full signal strenght.

wow.. the results turned out quite different than I imagined.
Obviously it's just in my area that 3G sucks. I really wish they would fix this, considering that every phone released now is 3G...and you think someone would notice... well, I'm sure if I wait long enough people will start to notice, but who knows,

I can't remember the last time I had problems with 3G. though I remember before Cingular got bought by AT&T and they were just rolling out there 3G, I used to have problems then, I guess it was due to them configuring/re-configuring the towers. I think the engineers were just going by what the manual said, which weren't the best settings for each area.
I'm on 3G all day everyday on the hour and it's good. even when I'm in the basement and have 1 bar I still receive all my calls and I can make calls. though on this 1 bar I sometimes have to repeat myself every 1.5 minute, but I don't complain about that because it's 1 bar and I'm in the basement. at my friend's apartment I'm the only one that get signal, nothing else work there, not T-Mobile, not sprint, not verizon, not alltel, not vergin nothing else only AT&T works and I get 3 bars of 3G there. I always laugh because he has to leave his phone by the window and use his blue tooth.
I honestly don't think you're by a 3G tower because you should be getting way more than 3 bars. also ask them about the issue you're having AT&T is a good company they will listen to you. call them and open a ticket (before this they will have you go through the basic steps, restarting by removing the battery, etc) tell them you've done that multiple times and yet you have the same issue so it must be a network issue. have them escalate the ticket (they will send an engineer out and he/she will call you, they will work on the towers around your area). don't forget to be polite, no one likes a hot head.
in roughly mid year last year I was only getting edge at my job even though it is a 3G area. at home inside my house had full bars, so I called them up and they worked with me. the engineer stayed in my area roughly 2 weeks to deal with the issue. after that I've had 2 bars of 3G in doors at my job.

no Cell Tower triangulation on 3G

So we just got 3G here this week, but when I am on the 3g network, my cell triangulation doesn't work. can someone with 3G in their city confirm that it is working for them so I can stop worrying about it?
Thx

NC?
How does one know if triangulation is working exactly, ha

SLC utah
make sure your GPS is off then open Google Maps and hit menu - My Location.

I go to lunch in a few and will test. Raleigh NC just turned 3G this week as well.

Confirmed: same issue... can not find my location, where edge can (did not cut off 3g, basing that off of 1 year of using maps up till this week when i got 3g in my city).
Anyone have thoughts on this?
For that matter.... why do i not have 3g in buildings/homes? I only have 3g when outside.

Worked on edge.
In phone status it shows my network as UTMS, not 3G (used to say Edge).
I guess this in normal?

Think about how "triangulation" works (improper name, really):
Along one of the low-bandwidth data channels (along with network time, network name, etc.) are a few small numbers: your MCC and MNC (describe which network: 310/410 for att usa, 310/260 for tmo usa. Those are compared against the return from AT+COPS (or actually a little database if you see "T-Mobile" or "AT&T", compared with "Voicestream Wire", "Cingular", "ATT0", or often just "") to get your network.
Those are then combined with two more numbers, the LAC and CID. The Location Area Code is unique to a region on a network (pretty wide range), and the CID is unique per tower. There is no lookup (similar to COPS) that provides a location from a given cid. This means that you have to look up the LAC/CID against a database (MCC/MNC sometimes speed up searching/possibly sort out duplicates - idk). There are a few of these databases available - there's one free one which I'm thinking about, google probably keeps one (they keep a wifi database too), microsoft probably keeps one, etc. AFAIK, there's no unified database... please correct me if I'm wrong. However, the networks do provide their tower lists to big-name lists.
One last thing to think about - the companies will always try to sell you on the idea that they use multiple towers and find the area their coverage overlaps, or that they use "the unique footprint of a tower"... basically, they put your rough location as the complete coverage area of the tower to which you are currently registered. Actually, they don't really calculate it well - it's just a circle around the tower. What google means by this second claim (the footprints one) is that some of the circles are different sizes, depending on whether the cell is full power, low power, etc. This is especially provable in my bedroom - I have access at full signal to two 3g towers (I love this area ), that seem to overlap right here. This means that, when I use google maps, or another similar program, the circles constantly move between the two. It also means that I get spammed with unsolicited +CREG's on my modem line, as it moves around .
Combining all this knowledge, I know exactly what's wrong. #1: the lac/cid on the EDGE tower elements is different than the 3g towers (makes sense, for signal range calculations), #2: google knows about the LAC/CID on the EDGE towers, and #3: google doesn't yet have the new 3g towers' LAC/CID information in their database. Therefore, the program is passed information it doesn't know about, so it simply returns an error.
Proposed solution: wait a week or two
ADDITION: You don't have 3g in houses because the 3g signal does not penetrate as well (It's on a higher frequency, and the signal drops after less interference than edge). Since these are new towers, they may also be running at reduced power.

I'm in SLC as well, and can also confirm wierdness with the non-GPS location over the first couple of weeks... including one day where my phone absolutely insisted that I was just outside of San Diego. Quite mean of my phone to tease me like that considering that I was in West Valley City at the time. It seems to be getting better as time goes on.

^^ wow, I can feel the authority. Thanks for a great post. I think you are correct, the 3G seems to be getting better coverage (sometimes getting it in my house now). I trust t-mo and google, thank you man.

I don't know EDGE technology (never delved into it), but I seriously doubt poly's claim that it uses a different frequency than 3G. If you're using a USA spec G1, then your tphone has a single radio for t-mobile's 1900 MHz band.
The issues you are noticing with 3G coverage are more likely due to SIR parameter set by the deployment engineers (i.e. they are telling the 3G cell to only 'talk' to your phone if the signal is strong).
This is just a guess, though. There could be any number of issues going on, like some misconfigured settings on the RNC's for your sector (which makes sense if the coverage is new).
UMTS is the 3G technology that T-mobile (and AT&T) use, so that is normal.

Tarzanman said:
I don't know EDGE technology (never delved into it), but I seriously doubt poly's claim that it uses a different frequency than 3G. If you're using a USA spec G1, then your tphone has a single radio for t-mobile's 1900 MHz band.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah, it's generally not too much of an issue - all the frequncies are pretty close (I think the 850mhz stuff from att might go a bit better than the old 1900, but it is pretty close). And, as I just discovered, tmo is entirely 1900mhz, so that part was mistaken. The rest should be accurate to the best of my knowledge (eg. EDGE can take more interference before it drops, etc.)
EDIT: Nope, their entire EDGE network is 1900mhz, but their 3g is only 1700/2100. So, it's a tossup, and that close makes not much of a difference.

Manual network/antenna selection possible?

I use my nexus one on ATT - in my area, there are two antennas.. ATT's "preferred" antenna which barely gets any signal at all (resulting in dropped calls every couple of minutes), and there's a "roaming" antenna which gives me full signal and works great. The problem is that when I'm on the roaming (good) antenna, the phone gets a tiny bit of signal from the "preferred" (bad) antenna, switches me over then my calls drop.
I had a Palm Treo which had a hack to manually select the antenna I wanted to use, which worked GREAT. Does a similar hack exist for the nexus one/android?

interesting.... didn't know we can select antennas

there should be a way to hack radio module to allow cell tower override, i have exactly same problem. there are three cells around my house, one nearby and two far away. for some stupid reason phone switches to different cell tower and i lose my network.
in battery use, i have cell standby as my biggest battery hog. cell standby over 25%

I'd be willing to pay for this hack.

has anybody ever found a way to do this?? I just moved further out into the country to get away from the city, and i am one tower too far away to be in the local calling area to all my contacts. lol and i know I'm BARELY into the other towers coverage area. So, if i could tell my phone to stay locked on to a particular tower, and actually get a signal (It switches towers when i still have 3 bars of signal, and I live about a mile further down the street from where it switches) I can avoid long distance charges. I haven't been able to find anything anywhere to be able to do it, but I may be using the wrong search terms. I'm not completely up to snuff on most technical terms. Thanks in advance.

I think cell tower hand offs are handled by the networks, not the phone

can anybody confirm this? what antenna on N1???

mrbkkt1 said:
I think cell tower hand offs are handled by the networks, not the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U could very well be correct! Sounds logical. I've been exploring a handful of VoIP options that ya can use from your Android/WM device using your Data connection/WiFi.
I spent a bunch of time reading and researching, and just installed one called Nettalk. No local phone number for incoming calls, but the app is free, and u can make calls to anywhere to/from any Canadian area. The app looks just like the regular dialer, and works pretty decent. So, when somebody calls, I'll just select 'reject call with message' (if calling from a cell) and say I'll call rite back, or if calling from a land line, I'll just send it to voicemail and call back and presto... problem solved. There are a few other options available, where u pay anywhere from $5 a month, to $30 a month and you still using your Data/WiFi connection, but u get a local calling number for contacts to call, and doesn't matter where your phone is, it will receive the call free of long distance charges. Problem is, i haven't found any that have the city I'm from in their numbers database. So for now, I'm going to see how this system works out.

mrbkkt1 said:
I think cell tower hand offs are handled by the networks, not the phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both the handset and the base station "handle" hand offs. The handset has a programmed minimum signal level, below which it will essentially request a hand off if one is available. The network can switch the handset to another tower for load balancing or other reasons if it determines that the handset (or the carrier's business interests) is better served by another tower. It's a two way system. If the network wants to move you on to another tower, but the phone won't get a lock, you stay on the original tower.
The problem with the OP is that his SIM (which is programmed with carrier preferences) keeps pushing him off roaming and into the actual AT&T network. Basically, AT&T has its network set up so that any level of AT&T signal is preferable to any level of roaming. It does that to save money on roaming costs, since AT&T handles you for free while you're on their system, but has to pay a few cents to have the roaming partner host you.

Maybe
I think Tasks can do that.

samsung has that feature but i have to find for other handsets

Weak 3G Signal on T-Mobile?

I have a brand new Nexus One, the T-Mobile version. According to the coverage map, I'm in a Very Good voice coverage area and 4g Very Good data coverage area. I've never used T-Mobile before though, so I don't know typical signal strengths in and around my house.
I'm on a Pay As You Go plan with Web DayPass. I can get the phone to go into 3G mode but it only has 0-1 bars. On Edge it ranges between 2-4. I know there were 3G issues at launch but I thought they were resolved.
Is there some secret to making this work?

Just because a map says that you have good signal, doesn't mean you will actually get one.
Those maps are calculated based on some equations and formulas and so forth, rather than test every square inch for signal strength. Plus, I don't think they guarantee in-building coverage to be the same as outside.
You should probably try being close to a window to see if it improves. Another suggestion is to hold the phone by its sides rather than grasp it at the bottom. The phone's antennas are in the bottom of the phone.

I'm just trying to see if the phone might be the problem. The issues I'm having are the same as all the ones reported at launch. However all I can find are reports on that issue from a year ago, nothing about how/if it was fixed.
I don't know if it really matters but it's not like I'm on the edge of good coverage. There is Good - Excellent voice coverage and Very Fast Mobile Web coverage 20+ miles in all directions.
I can hold the phone perfectly still and Edge coverage will fluctuate between 2-4 bars. If I get 3G, it's typically 0-1 bars though I have been able to get 2 bars once.

Weak Signal area Radio Power Meter Questions

I live in a weak signal area, my power meter (found at: setting,wireless, mobile network settings, networks type and strength) rarely if ever goes below -90 dbm. I often monitor the VZ network by using it. I use my phone for Internet (even with a weak signal my phone has provided me better service than my other options).
I have often observed an odd behavior reported by the power meter, the meter will jump from its current reading to -1 dbm. This occurs only on the 3G network tower. There is also a 1X tower at 4 miles away that I have not observed this very unlikely power reading.
Anybody else have this experience?
Could there be a front end amplifier/attenuator on the radio? If so I would think my phone has a defect.
Thanks
Steve

Update: I took the lack of folks having the same problem and another issue this phone's hotspot/tether process to mean this phone had a defect. I was able to replaced it today with a new phone.
I observed that the new phone has the same issue.
Does anyone have schematic for the front end of these radios?
(I wouldn't think this to be possible that LG would give out this information, but I thought I would as)

My understanding is that the radios have not been released, giving us so much trouble getting ICS and other things to work. as far as signal issues... i think it's the phone it self. not yours, but all of ours. I know in a small town out where i live, i have to use a different carriers tower, Verizon doesn't reach well... and my friend still has 4G. he's using thunderbolt, other friend has 3g through at&t... so i think our radios may be underpowered.