I would like to kick this project back off following the withdrawal of tuxhero.
After putting the feelers out and speaking with the developer responsible for the vogue android Kernel build & port I would like to Try and bring those guys onboard and am looking at a way to source them with a device. Further conversations need to take place and definitive project scope and tasks defined with much more transparent approach to the code development.
I have registered androidkernel.com and am asking for feedback from you all on how you think you would like things to pan out. My role is with Project Management and have a wealth of experience in that area, so I would be looking to appoint a team of people to work on the project and either set bounties for milestones or listen to other options and feedback on reaching our project goals.
Hopefully something of value can be achieved and I would be grateful to hear from the previous developers for any assistance available. We can create a website or use github or google code, opinions wanted and lets not rule anything out.
Sangreal
I would be glad to help out with this project. But since I dont have much time (I work 8-10hours/day as a developer) I would be glad if this would be an open development for all to contribute to.
Also it would be nice if the technical documents that Tuxhero has was posted to the developers so that they could be able to make progress faster.
Lets hope we can get android for our device.
I'm in agreement totally - open source, more transparency would be the aim.
very nice ...
but we should ask tuxhero, to share his researched information and diffs.
tuxhero actually didn't get anything done at all. He was making fake posts but in reality he wasn't doing anything.
Lets try not to get into any of that, but I agree there was very little transparency or visibility of code development.
I have asked Tuxhero if he could handover documentation and anything else to kickstart things so whether that is provided we shall see.
Sangreal
sangreal said:
I would like to kick this project back off following the withdrawal of tuxhero.
After putting the feelers out and speaking with the developer responsible for the vogue android Kernel build & port I would like to Try and bring those guys onboard and am looking at a way to source them with a device. Further conversations need to take place and definitive project scope and tasks defined with much more transparent approach to the code development.
I have registered androidkernel.com and am asking for feedback from you all on how you think you would like things to pan out. My role is with Project Management and have a wealth of experience in that area, so I would be looking to appoint a team of people to work on the project and either set bounties for milestones or listen to other options and feedback on reaching our project goals.
Hopefully something of value can be achieved and I would be grateful to hear from the previous developers for any assistance available. We can create a website or use github or google code, opinions wanted and lets not rule anything out.
Sangreal
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You should get in contact with TuxHero at least to ask about his technical documentation on the Blackstone and also if he is able to share any code. There is no harm in two teams working on this brilliant project!
So are the Vogue team really willing to try and crack the Blackstone? Do they need an actual handset?
Edit: If you actually managed to WORK WITH Tux that would be awesome
Transparacy is the clue.. there are a lot of smart heads here that may decide to contribute if the project is open for all..
good luck guys..
Good luck with the management Sangreal, its looking good!
Hope you can gather a good team.
nizzon said:
Good luck with the management Sangreal, its looking good!
Hope you can gather a good team.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Allthough I do not use the Touch HD for the moment, I wish You all the best. I'm sure You will make it!
If TuxHero does not provide You with the documents he got, I say his intension was only to get 5 minutes of fame.
im happy this project has started, but what plan do you have in mind to get the vogue developers a blackstone? What i mean to say is that even though the blackstone is starting to get a tad dated, its still a very expensive device.
maybe you could get the donation pot from the other thread. that just about added up to the cost of a blackst... oh.
This sounds great.
let us keep this thread clean of the thing other people have done in the past.
and support the topic starter with every bit of information we could give.
i hope he could build a android kernel for the blackstone.
Just a suggestion..
Perhaps the following thing to do would be to list things what needs to be done, what is high priority and is related to what. Also if the task/s could be categorized by difficulty (read: time expected to complete).
Then after we have a list, we can start addressing task/s to people or smaller teams.
I also suggest that there would be some kind of progress bar per task (how much is completed of the task and what is the estimated time for the task to be 100% complete, what is working and what is not). Then there would be no need for people to ask questions like "when is this ready?".
The last thing I would suggest is that we make a list of people that are willing to contribute and with what (read: I would like to contribute and I have skills in ______________)
I would like to contribute with code but I have no experience of hardware coding so I guess it is better I stand aside. However, if You need a forum setup (live chat etc etc), just let me know. I do not want to step on any toes but if you need someone to help with trying to manage the project, I'm absolutely willing to give a hand.
My developing skills are close to none existent,
however any designs (web design, graphic designs and stuff like that) i can do well (or atleast other people think so)
I can also do any testing, if any of this may be useful, let me know.
- Dan
Thanks for all the suggestions so far and I will get in touch with those who have offered skills in other areas to assist where possible, I appreciate a lot of people are waiting for some value in this port and at least a fully implemented kernel.
It will take a couple of days for me to touch base with some of the developers on here and I will need to discuss things in more detail with them whilst at the same time getting the base requirements fulfilled on which to start the project off properly, after which there will be a kick off in some form.
My intention regarding getting a device for them if needed was to contribute myself as well as set up donations however bearing in mind the debacle of people donating before and nothing really progressing I am somewhat conscious of doing this properly and not in the business of obtaining something for nothing so definitely need some good suggestions on that aspect.
make a bounty
no donation, get that f**king thing out of your mind... as soon as the project is done, then open it. Not that I don't value WIP, but otherwise it will only lead to the same disasters we had in the last two attempts... (and I'm not talking about the other devices or other development attempts)
"oh yeah, why is the thing not out yet"
or
"we gave you money, where's the progress"
will be questions we always will see, even if that person didn't donate.
Let money out of the game, it spoils everything.
I personally would still love to wait for tuxhero. Not because I have donated, but simiply believe that good people is all around. BTW, it is always good to have more and more developer to join. Thanks everyone.
Apparently cash is going to be the pilot light and life cycle motivator of such a massive project. Qualified developers a project manager and loads of volunteers. The consensus is $50 (US) per person. That seems far too inexpensive if such a project is to reach a satisfactory conclusion. I agree, giving up our hard earned cash to persons unknown, for unknown effort is not a productive way to go.
What is needed is an escrow: Donations held until specific milestones area reach, as predetermined. Personally, I don't want to give, for example, $250 and some one else $50, with the expectation we each receive the same result. Then again, if specific donations are mandated then this becomes a private project. Oh boy! Back to square one.
No, here's the deal: Each person donate what they want with the donation kept secrete. Either a service or a reputable member hold the donations, perhaps in a paypal account until a bounty release is authorized.
I'm a little less than optimistic, but I am quite agreeable (and already have) to donating to this worthy effort.
Android is open. That's why I have my Samsung Galaxy S, my Nexus One and my Sapphire.
I have these phones because the open community can do better than the professionals, and I am proud to be a member of a community that has recently hacked Froyo onto the G1, Android2HD2 (and other Winmo devices), created great skins and themes, rooted almost every droid to date, hacked google navigation to work in other countries etc etc etc.
There is amazing work being done is this community.
Kingklick was able to put out a lot of ROMs which satisfied a lot of people. Contributors to Cyanogenmod (disclaimer. notably not Cyanogen himself) and others (fans and friends - disclaimer. note lack of word fanboys - of cyanogenmod, disclaimer. plus some others too) have flamed and flamed away about Kangklick (notably via twitter - I have stopped following any of those jerks that clogged up my feeds with what could've - screw that - should've been settled MUCH more privately..I followed you guys for dev news or the occasional interesting insight into your real life, not your petty bickering, but you have every right to post what you like...hence why I stopped following you all, I didn't flame you...note 'bigger man').
Rule 12 of XDArules clearly states that using the work of others must be done with permission, independent of whether it is open source or not. If this is not upheld then the post will be bought down, it does not say the user will be banned. I would understand the formality of taking the post down and requesting Kingklick reposts the ROM with due credit, but I believe - note believe...implies opinion - that moderators may have been influenced by pressure from other (high ranking, public eye) members and thus did not adhere to normal or just (I do not know if not giving creds is normally treated in this way, but you will discover I believe it shouldn't be) protacol. Kingklick broke the rules of XDA, but then again I see his banning as the least contentious issue here.
I believe that members of the XDA community in the public eye (ie with large Twitter follower base) due to their work via XDA (no matter what you say, cyanogenmod may be based at its own domain, but it still posts at XDA to maintain its public profile and feed of the massive XDA userbase, and is hence in part bound by this) have a responsibility to follow the rules of XDA on XDA rules and disputes. I do not think this is something which can be policed ('I'm banning you Wes for Trolling Kingklick...on Twitter'... not gonna work) but I think it is a moral obligation (anyone that thinks the internet is not bound by morality should take a reality check...the reason why we have open source is essentially ethics).
Do we give credit to Linus Torvalds every time we distribute linux kernels or work to do with linux? Do we give credit to those that helped him create this base? Do we give credit to Google for creating Android? HTC? Our carriers? Martin Cooper for inventing the mobile phone and cell networks? Time Berners-Lee for inventing the internet, giving rise to this forum, Google and thus the Phones/Devices we love and use? The fact is we don't give credit where due (although you may say its obscure to thank these people, they DO deserve our thanks). None of the ROM chefs/coders give all credit where due, but a lot do in part, with those directly involved. But who still thanks the original rooters?
Kingklick has been declared a copier by the jury...I haven't delved through the evidence to confirm this...but shouldn't we be much more relaxed about copying in general? All users should be open about their work with Android, but they are not. If kingklick based a build off Cyanongenmod, and gave due credit for that, he would be called unoriginal, despite his attempts to make improvements. I also believe that there should be transparency, a log of all complaints of interest and the community told in a statement from the mods why someone was banned...at least in part (keeping gory details to themselves thank you very much).
Donations are generally given by 'end-users'...noobs who can flash and maybe do some work on the builds but their contributions are limited. End users generally want user experience, and reward devs with commendation and donations. If kingklick does work on a build which satisfies more users and he hence gets donations, is that stealing donations? No. The original dev works on an open source project knowing that their work is open, but the end user can reward as he/she likes. Perhaps kingklick developed his following due to his branding...he did always use words like FAST and STABLE and SMOOTH, but Apple do the same and they're not banned from trading despite the hyperbole.
I do not doubt that a lot of devs thanks fellow devs with donations. Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick, however a lot of donations come from end users, and if kingklick replaces a few files using winrar (something which I generally contest, I believe kingklick does a lot of great work) and that satisfies more end users by being fast and stable and smooth (or perceived as being so thanks to branding) then he can get donations for that, they are a gesture of satisfaction and goodwill.
Kingklick was immoral by not giving true credit, however I believe that he could have been warned and asked to give credit once he got back from his night out (whether that excuse, or what ever his actual excuse was, was true).
I also laugh at the accusation that kingklick does not fill a niche within the 'open'/'free' community. This should not result in grudges and flame wars, whether it is true or not. Kingklick did fill a niche in my opinion: reviewers (and consumers) see vanilla android as being sterile. Hell it is sterile, and it's never going to be as successful as others if it doesn't sort this out. Cyanogenmod and other big names are based off this sterile form of Android, but they don't delve into Sense UI and other alternative skins, mainly due to preferences or copyright problems etc, not that that stops them with other things. Kingklick did work with these and he filled his niche by delivering great, fast, usable roms of these whilst others sneered at them for being inefficient coding or whatever...geeky snobbery.
Kingklick also delivered various fixes and things which other groups did not. I won't list all of these and I am sure representatives of Cyanogenmob et al will say 'we were gonna fix these issues anyways' or 'that's redundant' or 'that was patchy code', but kingklick has contributed. Obviously we have to hold ethics above output, we can not say that 'his holiness' (inteneded to mock those who believe cyanogen alone is a god, not cyanogen himself) Cyanogen's contributions to android exempt him from following conduct, but we do a great job of driving away good developers with flaming and telling tales. Perhaps you'll say kingklick was not a good developer, Drizzy, even Haykuro etc etc, but I only flashed Cyanogenmod on my Nexus once and I didn't like it for various reasons (personal preference yada yada) but I kept going back for more kingklick...whether that's perceived speed and branding etc or just satisfaction.
King's desire roms are great, but we never mobbed, trolled and banned the poor guy for not giving creds to HTC. Surely the morality of our community using software like Rosie on the Nexus is more ethically questionable than a fellow member of XDA's work, since HTC is a firm which employs people. I bought a Nexus over the Desire because I knew I could still have Sense and a bigger dev community, however the cost included in the Desire which goes to the developers of Sense is hence forgone (perhaps indeirectly, I don;t know HTC internal funding); therefore I have - and anyone who has ever flashed a Sense ROM or devved with Sense - indirectly caused loss of welfare for people who rely of developing as their source of income, tehir families, communities and economies. Surely that is less ethical than not saying thank you, but XDA has no problem with that. Perhaps it is too small to notice, but it will have an indirect impact nonetheless.
Yes kingklick should've said his please and thank you, but I think it's community hyped double standards, pretensical courtesy (not that I wouldn't give creds, it's just that pleases and thank yous are nice, but not actually useful). A wise man once said 'there is no threshold for immorality', just because kingklick did a larger 'crime' than the rest of the community in not giving his thanks out, that does not exempt the other rule breakers (ie everyone), it just means their punishment should be less severe...we choose to ignore it because it's less direct or forgotten about.
In conclusion, I think we should start a 'contributors to Android' part of XDA, added to by mods or specifically appointed members of the community (like the portal). This could be informative and could mean that forgotten about contributors could not be forgotten, but their contributions immortalised in the open community of Android. Even if the contributions become redundant, they are the foundations for the next chapter in the Android story.
Finally. www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html is a very good read..and think about what AOSP stands for (I'll give you a clue...Android Open Source Project!). Can you steal what is open? What right have others to dictate what can and cannot be distributed in the open aspects of Android code (ie the underlying OS and vanilla UI...I'm not confused with Apps). Perhaps kingklick was guilty of plagiarism? But so is anyone that claims they worked really hard in that kernel without crediting Linus and leaving a donation link to his family or favourite charitable causes. Anyone that says I've reworked the UI without giving credits to The Astonishing Tribe for the original Android concepts which all UIs are based off...
Android is closed, that's why I question this 'community'.
I am not proud to be a member of this 'community'...right now.
Ps. Cyanogenmob was originally a typo (using words like mobbed in my piece...Freudian slip on the keyboard rather than fat finger syndrome)...but I kept it in as I thought it was funny...the Cyogenmob should replace team douche IMHO!
Wow, didn't realise how long it was...out of interest has anyone actually read the whole thing !?
Yeah, I read it and agree to some extent.
While what he did was wrong, he shouldn't be banned for it. I do not know all the circumstances around it but from what I read it appears he made sense UI for the Nexus one?
I believe that cyanogen is becoming more and more powerful as a body and it is starting to strong arm others when they believe they are in the wrong. I don't understand why people should shunned as he was simply because he didn't give due credit. From seeing all these devs get the boot from websites because they didn't give all the sources for their work. This is a major hinderance from some people wanting to develop new ROMs. I mean it seems that some people want to get credit for what they did and want to have the fame of what they developed, and not just because they wanted to further the development of phones and custom ROMS.
Some people may not agree with my stance, but I just think you give people another chance for slip ups like that one and not just a boot with no questions asked.
The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)
sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("
wow lets have some proof of this please and i quote "Cyanogen is well known for donating, as is kingklick" we know cyan does but prove king does if not take the statement out
If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.
See guys no one from cm contributors told anyone bout banning kk but yes every one was angry that he never gave credit to anyone. We told him a hundred time already to give credit. I don't know if bbannin does justice here but still he violated a lot of rules. He never released his kernel source. Never gave credits for others hard work. Bout drizzy he got banned for scamming a user. It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right. We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid. I would recommend u all try contributing before writing such justifications n flames n more. So kingklick was wrong n given many warnings before being banned. He was not a bad dev or something but as I told u reward for a contributor is credits. Bout donating I guess from tomorrow I'll start packaging cm froyo nightlys change the name of the Rom post it n start asking for donations. I'll even put some unicorns n ponies in it for u guys so it ismagical. N if u thing stuff can be fixed without the source u r wrong. For fixing 99% percent of stuff u need to know how to work with source n compile. Rest 1% are silver by pushing files. And again no one from cm asked any mod to ban him. It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever
And one more thing. U all remember Eugene whom u all made run away from magic n dream. He even caught kingklick using his work by adding a coded name oc the Rom that clearly said Eugene n this made king cry. He started accepting he used Eugene work then more proofs came in of he just changing build.prop n posting as his
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr
enatefox said:
Hey guys seriously, i spent like all weekend making a site for you to help hax your phones. bandwidth is expensive, so please donate to me!!!!!!! if you like all the work i put into this. you can check my site out at: http://forum.xda-developers.com and if it helps you out, please buy my a nexus. thanks and i'm still here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u
AnderWeb said:
The problem is NOT just using other people work with/without permission...
The problem is cheating the users to get more donations:
Example:
-DevA: Oh, i've been 3 nights compiling the code for you all!!!!
-Users: Ohhh, thankyou, gonna donate for your hard work!!!
-DevA: Ok, here you have the link (and the download is from DevB work with a little text-editor touch-up).
That's not the way of doing things (imho)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence) and hey I put a paper out last term without my complete bibliography done because I was so excited to get it out and I was going away for a week...I finished it off over the break and put it out when I was back, funny that didn't start a war on the internet.
enatefox said:
sorry but no. the proper way is
devA: "i took all of jubeh's work and 'optimized a text file' and uploaded it, pretty awesome right?"
you: "cool story bro"
devA: "i need a new phone"
you: "im poor but wth if you keep not making your own work and ask for donations"
devA: "ya rly"
you: "maybe i should've donated to the guy that made this all and not the one that file pushed the wifi files over... =("
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like how you're not using any form of personal attack in discussing this issue...give me an example of when kingklick asked asked for donations...theyre just appreciated. And hell did Jubreh give credit to ALL the people who helped him...Linus Torvalds etc? No, so we are all in part imperfect for not giving 'full credit'...call me anal or not.
Daneshm90 said:
If King put in the same amount of effort HazzBazz put in to creating this thread/writing that ever so long first post, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
But really, did we need another thread on this topic ? I lost track but theres been atleast 10+ threads discussing this and all resulting in a lock/user under investigation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
None of them were philosophical...Ive just finished my second year on joint honours in Philosophy so I find it interesting...and it's not exactly an effort to pile out this when I did it all through term time anyway.
charnsingh_online said:
It's not winrar but winzip Get ur facts right.
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Click to collapse
LOL I guess that makes me an invalid...nice
charnsingh_online said:
We r talking bout crediting the work of the community. If u do something spending day n night on expecting nothing but some respect or credit for ur work u get angry in ur language doing 1 month job n not getting paid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well uhhhh no its not because you expect to be paid for your job, and in fact you have legal rights ...open source developing is COMPLETELY different
charnsingh_online said:
I would recommend u all try contributing
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True yeah we should all try it...I'm hoping to do computer science post-grad if I get a first...but we dont all have the time or the expertise. I do some file pushing for myself, but I dont release it because if I did (despite getting my roms running fast and to my liking) I'd get slated by some snooty coders and fanboys.
charnsingh_online said:
before writing such justifications n flames n more.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nb. see lack of flaming...
charnsingh_online said:
It was their internal decision. There was no influence whatsoever
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Try twitter.com and look at a lot of members of Cyanogenmob's (still sticking by that, will use that in non-derogatory circumstances, still revelling in the typo!) tweets.
And hey if kingklick can deliver to the end users then there's no use slagging him off...youre equally insulting anyone that thought his roms were good. His slide rom has so much positive feedback for instance.
JAguirre1231 said:
I lawl'd.
I don't have enough money for my family, but you can have some. Where's your donate link you hard worker?
tl;dr
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Click to collapse
Daneshm90 said:
Damn man, that site is stupid fast
Im poor and living on the streets but i cant imagine how much work it must've been. Im donating to u
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yay mock donators now too.
HazzBazz, since you're gonna be like this here goes:
We all know the kangers. They're everywhere from your local grocer to the bus driver. Yes, kangers live peacefully among us. What you didn't know is that the real issue, for me at least, is that when I had my old Windows phone w/Android ported on it, we would bust our asses off (look at the Vogue thread) and people would micro-manage or "release" our work as theirs. Basically we would bust our asses off for free (never have I ever asked for a donation nor have I received a single penny for my time) and these people would zip it up and host it on their own site and build a fan base.
Ok so what right? well the people that post in those threads then have bugs to report. who do they report them too? the guy that said he made the ROM-- not us. he says "lolz i don't know guys" then we fix it then he gets thanked. then, he gets the donation. it pisses me off and I never got paid. imagine the unemployed devs out there.
You can at least see my point, right?
F'sure. Hence why I dont release anything. But to you guys kangers are pests. I do not doubt that kangers should be policed. However the credit issue is something which is neglected at a small level by everyone, so no one is perfect...and the great thing about a big site like xda is that most kangers on other websites have tiny fanbases.
I respect your work because of its own credence, and plagiarism will sure as hell piss anyone off who puts time into things, but we must remember that these are donations, given freely. I think we should do more to inform the 'end users' than ban and drive away devs who deliver what some users want...albeit with some undue credit (inform..allow the end users to make informed decisions).
HazzBazz said:
Kingklick developed a fanbase. If they donated is that a crime? He didn't hold for ransom, he just released work without due credit, perhaps mostly someone else's work (havent seen evidence)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will stop you there as the rest of what you say is boring.
Oh and use the search button or cache on google to find(as you call it) evidence
Have a Nice Day
If you like my work, buy bill gates a stuffed penguin.
Love it yeah. Your logical, fair and anticipatory argument leaves me speechless.
'Rest of what you say is boring'...darn I'm upset and speechless...that hurts. It's like Primary school bullies here, only fails.
With regard to 'haven't seen evidence'...I wasn't saying kingklick did or did not do that or this...Im simply saying I (personally) havent seen the evidence (not because it doesn't exist or does exist), but ultimately Kingklick was found guilty of using someone else's work without saying please and thankyou, and was hence driven away from us.
I will be hated on, but I don't care. Bring the King back. I love his Desire Sense UI ROM's.
When I started using xdadevelopers in 2008, I was mainly a lurker but enjoyed the conversations between others and finding answers.
Now in 2014, specially with the Android movement, the quality of the developers here has just turned into complete crap.
This does not mean that ALL developers are crap, I respect many, but there are so many that just ruin the Android community.
To fully support what I am trying to say, it appears the biggest problem with Android now is that everyone and their mom is creating ROMs. Each ROM is fuelled with users that will "live by the ROM, die by the ROM". Make a complaint about a ROM and get bashed, even if its due to a simple bug.
Example:
1st user: Hey, I am getting a force close on this
2nd user: STFU THIS ROM IS SO STABLE THERES NO BUGS IN IT, GTFO
I know this is an extreme example, but its literally the idea of how these things though.
Another issue I have is that ROM developers will slam donating to them ALL over their page, while sitting there saying they don't care about the money but appreciate the support. Okay, so donating isn't bad, but half of the developers treat their users like crap. Have a suggestion? Be prepared to get slammed by the developer for that (Oh, you donated $50 dollars to me, but **** you, I'm not your personal developer). NO, I am not saying donating makes the developer a slave to you, but I am saying that maybe you should appreciate your loyal users a little better and be a little more open minded.
May I point out, that its obvious half of the Android ROM developers here are doing this simply for self gratification, to make them feel important. Thats why quality of ROMs has degraded. Just throw something crappy together and give it to users. Made a change to the Android system? OMG I'M A ROM DEVELOPER!!11!
OH, and here's a good one to rant about. I've used several Roms in the past in which 1 person pissed the developer off so he just canned the entire project leaving all his other hundreds of users high and dry while the developer runs off with all the money they donated.
I honestly can say that these developers have ruined a lot of donations for developers that deserve it. I donated a lot to other roms in the past, but rarely do so lately because the same thing keeps happening. I donate to a ROM, ask a question, get slammed down, oh well. Donate to another ROM, guy pisses developer off, project gets deleted, oh well. Donate to a ROM, watch developer just slam down other users... makes me sick. It's a never ending process.
If you are going to write a freaking ROM, and you don't want requests, you don't want people *****ing about bugs, don't want to deal with all the crap that is involved in the process then keep it to yourself. Don't waste people's time with your poor quality controlled roms.
I apologize in advance if this all offends people, but its just something I am so sick of seeing and just wanted to rant about it to get it off my chest. This is the Off-Topic forum, right?
Thanks for you time
Hello,
Being that roms are free of charge and no one's forcing you to use them, I'm not getting why you're ranting. Please remember you're not entitled to anything. Putting roms together is not a full time job, but it's a lot of work. People do this kind of thing in their spare time and it's an often thankless job. Take it or leave it. If you don't want to donate to them, then don't. Please read this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=16682226&postcount=2441 and this http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=2031989&postcount=45.
I'm glad you were able to get things off your chest but respectfully, I will have to close this because there are more than enough rant threads and posts about developers and what people think they owe them flooding the XDA ecosystem.