Database Develop

Memory boosting apps... real or fake

Everyone knows computers, phones, pda, slows as the memory fills. Now there are ssome apps on the market that say they speed up you phone. So far I count three
- Memory up Professional
- Memory up Personal
- Memory for Lemmings
Has anyone tried any of these? What do you have to say about them? Do they work? Are you to skeptical (scarred) to try them?
I tried memory up Professional but didn't seem to work also its shareware
Memory for lemming seemed more simple but memory number keep jumping around there should be a log/graph for memory usage like windows task manager (I probably should email him that)
Haven't tried mem up personal though,

To an extend they work but overall they have no use. Android OS is built around killing services after some time and keeping the phone running in top performance. Those memory programs might free up a few KB's but not much use on that part, unless you have a program that allows you to kill services and stuff, which might have a practical use. Overall my answer is they are pretty much fake!

Just look at the definition of Lemming...
Lemming
The act of following the crowd into an investment that will inevitably head for disaster.
The version Memory for Lemmings is essentially garbage as well. He only made it to prove a point that the effects of the other pay programs are useless.

I used Memory Up when my G1 was working (doing a warranty, still waiting for the mail). It did not appear to do anything. Some claimed it did, I claim placebo effect for them.
The first thing I checked when running it was whether or not it killed open apps, it did not. Useless in my opinion. Wait for a real task manager.

From what I understand it does the same thing Oxios Memory does for Windows Mobile... it merely compacts RAM by clearing up system memory providing a slight boost but non noticeable to the human eye or feel. Android system by default will keep up to 6 applications running in the background and closes the oldest app. when the 7th application is opened (hold down the home key and try it out yourself). From what I have noticed, (and there is not real way to track virtual/RAM memory in the G1, if you don't turn off your phone but every few days... then the memory programs WILL help (slightly) to avoid the inevitable power off to clear system RAM or cool off the circuit board.

Lol welcome to the land of the stupid. I explain not only WHAT the app MemoryForLemmings does , but also HOW it does it right in the description. Not only that but I also suggest a google search term which tells you ALL ABOUT Garbage collection. But for the Google inept here we go.
Every java program has variables and objects in it. These objectd consume memory - both on the java heap and also indirectly the system. Now Old School coders like myself who used C generally null out the variables when done with them - thus freeing memory off the heap.(I am not going to explain what the heap is ****ing look it up), we are used to C where every spec of memory had to be allocated and deallocated. Java on the other hand doesnt require you to be so fussy, It keeps a running log of variables etc and whether they are being used or not and periodically it will go through and run .... wait for it ... garbage collection. It does this at a set time or at a set memory level of the heap.
But guess what, Sun in their infinite wisdom provide a way to ask the system to run garbage collection early. This is not a forced suggestion merely a hint to the OS, the OS can choose to ignore this. Guess what my app does? Can you guess? Thats right it merely suggests to the OS to finalize items thats may be running but are old and to run garbage collection. Thats it. The whole damn program is maybe 40 lines long and that includes the Dialog code.
There is nothing like a bunch of non coders getting together on a forum to write up some of the least correct assumptions I have ever seen about code.
Android does not close apps on a First in First out basis. You cannot rely on that when coding apps, Androids program management is more sophisticated than that. You cannot "compact RAM" it is not disk. Any clearing of the system memory is a crap shoot, I Included it on the app for ****s and giggles. It may speed up your system as the heap/system memory clear, but again that's a crap shoot.
I only wrote the app at all so the idiot charging 15 bucks for app wouldn't be able to scam people for something the OS would do anyway (Which by the way is ALSO in the description). I didn't even post it to the market to start just the androidcommunity boards, but they encouraged me to list it.
I really suggest you actually USE google (Golly where would you find a google search bar), before you go off half cocked.

Bratag said:
I really suggest you actually USE google (Golly where would you find a google search bar), before you go off half cocked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think half the visitors to xda-dev Dream understood what you wrote above. And that's why people will continue to buy these apps (on this and other platforms). Right now the Android Market is still not as bad as the iPhone App Store, where exploitation and ridiculously pointless apps hit truly saddening new plateaus.
I think i'll go write a "cell phone radiation reducer" app right now and charge twenty bucks for it.

jashsu said:
I don't think half the visitors to xda-dev Dream understood what you wrote above. And that's why people will continue to buy these apps (on this and other platforms). Right now the Android Market is still not as bad as the iPhone App Store, where exploitation and ridiculously pointless apps hit truly saddening new plateaus.
I think i'll go write a "cell phone radiation reducer" app right now and charge twenty bucks for it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sweet Ill totally buy it
I sometimes feel I am one man trying hold back the tide of stupid armed only with a soggy celery stalk.

Java?
Bratag said:
But guess what, Sun in their infinite wisdom provide a way to ask the system to run garbage collection early. This is not a forced suggestion merely a hint to the OS, the OS can choose to ignore this. Guess what my app does? Can you guess? Thats right it merely suggests to the OS to finalize items thats may be running but are old and to run garbage collection. Thats it. The whole damn program is maybe 40 lines long and that includes the Dialog code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Bratag: All of the apps on my system run in Linux, not Java. So your program wouldn't really do anything for me or the 90% of android users that don't do Java? I'm not sure about the Linux/Java connection you are making. Please elaborate.

The dalvik vm is basically a tweaked java vm. With some very limited exception, almost all the code in the available apks are all java classes.

Bratag said:
There is nothing like a bunch of non coders getting together on a forum to write up some of the least correct assumptions I have ever seen about code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You must be new here.

texasaggie1 said:
Bratag: All of the apps on my system run in Linux, not Java. So your program wouldn't really do anything for me or the 90% of android users that don't do Java? I'm not sure about the Linux/Java connection you are making. Please elaborate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually all the apps on your system run In a Java Runtime Environment called Dalvik which is a virtual machine which has been optimized to efficiently run multiple instances efficiently. So everything you run is a java app and that includes the desktop.
Now this all runs on TOP of a linux KERNEL.
EDIT: damn someone beat me to it

Bratag - you rock.

Bratag said:
Actually all the apps on your system run In a Java Runtime Environment called Dalvik which is a virtual machine which has been optimized to efficiently run multiple instances efficiently. So everything you run is a java app and that includes the desktop.
Now this all runs on TOP of a linux KERNEL.
EDIT: damn someone beat me to it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The very reason an emulater like Smartgear, Pocketnes or MAME is impossible on Android. A black & white Gamboy emu would kill the 7201a with sound and 30fps.
Java sucks for these type of apps having to emulate the game system and be interpreted through two layers.

rushless said:
The very reason an emulater like Smartgear, Pocketnes or MAME is impossible on Android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not at all impossible if you use JNI to hook to a compiled c++ or asm library for the main engine. Heck, it's not even "impossible" to do in Java-- merely unfeasible.
Stay on topic.

Apps on Android can't touch anything outside their own sandbox due to the security model (unless the other app gives you a way to access it's data, but even then, you can't touch it's memory). I feel sorry for the poor sod who pays for these apps.

system apps questions

i have read in a few spots that system apps are actually on a separate partition than the market apps. is this correct? if so how could you tell how much space is actually left in the system apps partition?
ive been thinking i could push some of my apps that i have no intention at all of getting rid of into the system/apps/ folder and open more space for market apps that im not so sure im going to keep. apps such as tmobile my account, myspace, facebook, connect bot, dual mount sd, visual voicemail, handcent sms, estrongs file explorer...
also if i did so would the market still recognize they are there for updates? could i remove the default sms app and replace it with handcent?
tia for any help on this

to see how much space you have in the system partition you can (from terminal)
Code:
su
busybox df-h
My partition is over 90% used and it will be the same for majority of roms so yes, you can throw couple of apps in there but not too many. Not sure if they will work or if they will be recognized by market.
Good luck.

borodin1 said:
to see how much space you have in the system partition you can (from terminal)
Code:
su
busybox df-h
My partition is over 90% used and it will be the same for majority of roms so yes, you can throw couple of apps in there but not too many. Not sure if they will work or if they will be recognized by market.
Good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
df-h: applet not found
but thanks for the help

You should try to use your brain before complaining.
df -h
There is a SPACE between the command and the parameter.
This is totally standard, and absolutely OBVIOUS to ANYONE who actually thinks about it for a second!

thanks for the rude ass reply, though it worked. not everyones a linux whiz kid like you, im still learning. linux is not someones going to master in 2 months, especially when its got a gui, like android. oh but again thanks, that worked
system: 61.6m used of 67.5m
data: 61.6m used of 74.8m
kinda strange i have the same used on each partition.. and not much left on either

SmokeyJBluntz said:
thanks for the rude ass reply, though it worked. not everyones a linux whiz kid like you, im still learning. linux is not someones going to master in 2 months, especially when its got a gui, like android. oh but again thanks, that worked
system: 61.6m used of 67.5m
data: 61.6m used of 74.8m
kinda strange i have the same used on each partition.. and not much left on either
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pay no attention. It is only common sense if you know linux syntax. Keep on learning and do not let rude responses get to you, that is what they are hoping for.

yeah i know, i read enough on here to know that theres a few senior members that get most of their post from flaming people. but i still thanked the guy lol
i must also add, every time im stuck and need help quick, the people over at cyanogens irc are very helpful and dont flame people trying to learn. dont just tell people to google, to get an iphone... they will point you to a good wiki or link or help you figure out a problem. i had big problems trying to flash RAs recovery on my newly rooted g1 with the latest ota update installed. they helped me figure out the problem, which stumped some of them, and then helped me work around it. it seems the ota update did away with the flash command i think it was.

Removing an app...
How can I remove an app that came with a ROM (ie. facebook)?
There is not an option to uninstall it from Market.
mount -o,rw /system...etc
Then just delete it from /system/apps?
Thanks

Too much to Process..Help Wanted..

Process
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Process or processing typically describes the act of taking something through an established and usually routine set of procedures to convert it from one form to another, as a manufacturing or administrative procedure, such as processing milk into cheese, or processing paperwork to grant a mortgage loan, or converting computer data from one form to another.
Ok first off I'm the biggest noob at all things root as could be. I have managed to make some custom clocks for my old LG voyager way back in the day and have even jailbroke some Ipod touch's so I was able to load bootleg games and apps.
But this root thing has got my brain traped in a vortex and I really want to not just know how to root my droid (That info is everywhere) but I want to know how it all works. What terms like kernel mean and how they relate to clock speed. What is the difference between all the custom rom's? What happens when I root my phone and can't figure out what rom I should use? Do I have to reset all my apps and preferences every time i want to try a new rom?
I understand the how-to's I'm sure when I try to root my phone that I will not have much trouble doing so. But there are so many things I want to learn and know before I do anything.
I would like to say I'm not looking for links to tech reports on rom's that I will not understand I'm looking for alink (or someone who knows the things I wish to learn,) something that will explain the terms what they mean, how they relate to my phone and what outcome I should expect from loading custom rom's.
I understand that most users of this forum fall into one of two category's ONE ether super wonder techs that know exactly what they are doing and know how things work, TWO people who can read follow directions and root there phones while trying NOT to sound like noob's when they ask for help.
And then there's me I'm a number two, now I know that kinda makes me sound like **** but I really want to be a number ONE
So who want's to teach me ? Who's got some time to kill or link's to post? I'm even willing to go buy a android programmers book if there's one that would be recommended reading to help me understand the OS better.
I want to learn from the masters and this is where they all live. So will someone apprentice me ?
To close my rant out I would like to say I'm a 37 year old man with a masters in chemistry 119 IQ and ex-stream case of OCD that drive's my compulsive need to learn how things work, So I make for a good student
Thanx
ö

Thank you so much, I was hoping to be able to reply first, (this sh*t is my crack)
Ok, First off, the kernel is the basic system that controls how the cpu reacts, as well as how programs interact with the hardware on your phone, such as the screen, wifi and bluetooth modules, accelerometer, gps, ambient light and the battery. When a dev wants to overclock their android, add a module for EXT, or TUN, or add wifi support, this is where the magic happens. this is probably the most important part of the firmware. It also controls battery life via voltage, as well as cpu speed.( the average droid can be overclocked to 1200-ish, depending on the randomness of processors, though I've heard of a ridiculous version called OMAP Ti39 or something that could be stable at 2ghz, even 2.3. As I think you may know, Fat32 doesn't support file transfers of more than about 4 gigs at a time, which is why add in ext support is so important, especially since someone made a video player that reads matroska video files (blu-ray) Ive tried it, its beautiful, (V player - on the market) after kernels is framework, the framework is what renders the gui, basically everything that you see on the screen is thanks to the framework-res. We edit it either manually, or through the use of an app called metamorph, which swaps the xml files the framework uses with edited ones, such as one I recently used to give my droid a circular battery, however these xml files can change anything you could need them to visually about your droid, you just have to find what you need. Now on to shell. shell is the engine that is accesible through command prompt and terminal using the android sdk and adb, more on that can be found easily on the google android homepage. however, much use is made through devs and an app called terminal emulator that is basically a straight to shell terminal screen app. Uses for shell may include but are basically limitless, include moving any app to your sd-card to conserve rom (rom is the phones total system memory, apps usually go in there, but before froyo, and ext partition could be used, and with froyo stock support for most apps was allotted, and without the need of an ext partition.) Ram is basically ram, if you use a rom that originally came with a larger ram supported device, something called a swap partition must be implemented, otherwise it won't boot, there is an app or two that will do that for you, manual swap creation is also possible. Swap basically creates virtual ram on the sd-card. Root access, which can be acheived manually through the recovery flashing of specific zip files, or via free apps that do it with one click, basically allows you to flash kernels, change the framework, or allow tethering which I will cover next, is possible because the kernel the phone uses is linux, the unlocking of which is called granting super user access, in ubuntu a linux distribution, typing su, and your admin password will give you access to your computers system files, much in the same way we apply it to android. (However, it is unlikely you would try to flash an alternate kernel to your desktop, as it runs on either ie36 or x64 architecture, whereas phones run altogether seperate architectures , for instance android runs on ARM, and that is the base and primary reason your phone won't run windows.) Since android is free (open-source) there is an x86 version of android, including a froyo port that you can use on laptops and desktops. (Really quickly I would like to interject that recovery is an option on all phones android based that is usually accessible by holding volume up while booting, however the droid requires you press x while booting to get to recovery, which btw is what you flash a custom version of after rooting that allows you to flash roms and kernels. It also allows for backing up all of your phones firmware and data in the event of a problem. Basically its your new best friend, get familiar.) Also there is another form of booting called bootloader, it allows you to flash specific system files that are normally untouched, a guide to using that and a program called rsd lite will help you if you've bricked your phone ( Bricked- term used to describe the state of a phone that is unable to be recovered to an earlier condition and is essentially a brick or "expensive paperweight".) by allowing you to flash a completely untouched sbf (firmware) file. note that you can also use it to change your boring m boot logo with any image that fits 480x182 bytes through a slightly difficult, but fun proccess, a guide to which ,can be found here at xda, including a file that allows for the flashing of just the logo, whereas previously you had to reactivate your phone (you just have to follow the instructions on the phone) reroot, and restore the rom you previously backed up. Now on to tethering, the most important feature available to root users, which, if carriers have anything to do with it, would normally cost an extra 10 dollars a month. (Tethering- using shell or an app with the proper kernel to allow the use of your phones mobile network via usb connection, or the creation of a wifi hotspot with your desktop or laptop.) However thanks to devs who believe that what you pay for should be used how you want, most roms will tether, even in the settings, without carriers any the wiser. Windows 7 and almost all linux will automatically tether, vista is the most difficult, and xp has a quick install init file that works like a charm. The only reason we root is because we believe in the freedom to change our phones to fit us personally, and lets face it, because we can, because its fun, because its not illegal, and it brings a sense of satisfaction and pride in pushing the limits of technology. (P.S. I tried not to take to long so I couldn't really look it over, so sorry for grammatical or vocabulary based errors.)
(P.P.S. I recommend any book to do with android programming, but you'll need programming experience in linux, especially eclipse.)
Oh, and I'm a 17 year old junior with a vocabulary skill level of 139, just in case you wondered.

There are plenty of applications on the market where you can backup apps and data once you root, I personally use titanium, but I never restore system data if I'm flashing roms, only apps n data that comes with apps. Youre gonna have to search around other forums and whatnot to find the right roms.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App

[*WORKING*] **Ubuntu on Vibrant** UPDATE:11/05/10

UPDATE: So here is the link to a better version of Ubuntu running on your Vibrant. I do not have much time yet to edit the original post, but take a look at the this. You should be able to get it to work.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=823370
OLD:
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE TO YOUR PHONE!! YOU ARE DOING THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Ok, so for those who like to push the limits with their phones I don't think it gets better then this
I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to making this possible. We had gotten a lot of good posts.
But a big thanks goes out to danielmid84, he provided me with the link http://nexusonehacks.net/nexus-one-hacks/how-to-install-ubuntu-on-your-nexus-oneandroid/ and a custom modified script to work with our phones, thank you!!
UBUNTU on Vibrant
INSTRUCTIONS
Prerequisites:
Root
Latest version of BusyBox
Android SDK ( and knowledge of how to use the tools, adb shell, etc... )
Understanding of Linux commands ( but not necessary )
Files needed are located here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FALJFT3L
BootUbuntu script modded by danielmid84 here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=385853&stc=1&d=1282503588 NOTE: This file replaces the BootUbuntu file located in the archive above.
VERY IMPORTANT!!!
Step 1:
Connect your phone to the computer and mount your internal storage sdcard (Not your external sdcard).
Step 2:
Now create a new folder under sdcard named "ubuntu" for instance "/sdcard/ubuntu/" and copy ALL of the files in the "ubuntu.zip" archive over to this newly created folder EXCEPT the BootUbuntu file. You will be copying over the BootUbuntu file over from the additional BootUbuntu file link provided above.
Step 3:
Now that we have all of the files in place, make sure to "Turn off USB storage" on your phone to be able t access the SD card from ADB Shell. Also make sure your "USB Debugging Mode" is check under "Settings>Applications>Developement".
Step 4:
We are going to want a windows terminal open and we are going to "cd" into your "/tools" folder, wherever that may be located. For example " cd c:\android\sdk\tools".
Once you are in the "tools" folder, issue this command "adb shell". And for linux users, you will be issuing the command as "./adb shell".
Step 5:
Once you are in ADB Shell, you should see a "#" symbol now.
You are then going to type "su" to enter superuser mode.
Step 6:
We are going to cd into the ubuntu folder by issuing the command "cd /sdcard/ubuntu".
Now that we are located in "/sdcard/ubuntu" we will issue the command "sh ./ubuntu.sh"
This command only needs to be entered once, or if you ever change the file "bootubuntu".
Step 7:
Once that is completed, issue the command "bootubuntu".
If you get the "localhost" prompt, you have just successfully installed UBUNTU onto your Vibrant. Congratulations!!!
Now mind you, this is not with a Graphical User Interface yet and but you can access the power of Linux and Ubuntu by using a Terminal Emulator.
But if you want a running Graphical User Interface to play with, keep in mind that is uses a lot of memory and continue reading and I will have that updated here shortly.
Step 8:
We are now going to install a GUI.
While still being in Ubuntu with the "localhost" prompt, issue the command "apt-get update".
Then issue the command "apt-get install tightvncserver".
Step 9:
Once that is complete, you are going to want to issue the command "apt-get install lxde". This will take a few minutes so let it do its thing.
Step 10:
Next we are going to type:
"export USER=root" then
"vncserver -geometry 1024x800" but you can change the display size to what you prefer.
You will be asked to set a password at this time for login.
Step 11:
Next we are going to add the following commands to /root/.vnc/xstartup.
Now type:
"cat > /root/.vnc/xstartup" it will seem like it is hanging after you push enter, but it is only waiting for additional input. So continue by entering
"#!/bin/sh"
"xrdb $HOME/.Xresources"
"xsetroot -solid grey"
"icewm &"
"lxsession"
Then hit Ctrl+D twice and Enter key.
Step 12:
Now open the Android VNC app on your phone with "localhost" as "address" and "5901" as "port". Enter your password as well and connect!! You will now have a GUI for your Ubuntu!
REMEMBER: EACH TIME YOU WANT TO LOGIN TO YOUR UBUNTU, YOU DON'T NEED TO BE CONNECTED TO YOUR COMPUTER. YOU CAN USE TERMINAL EMULATOR.
This is only for full phone reboots to set up Ubuntu again.
Start Terminal Emulator and cd into "/sdcard/ubuntu"
Then issue these commands:
"su"
"export USER=root"
"vncserver -geometry 1024x800"
and you should be able to log back into the GUI with Android VNC again.

I'm surprised that not one person is interested in this...

I think debian on the vibrant would be sick!
sadly I don't dev

Can I ask what "debain" is? For all of us new guys..
Sent from my Vibrant using XDA App..
Typos/Nonsense due to Swype!
Stock Root + RyanZA LagFix + Captive Camera MOD

itsjusttim said:
Can I ask what "debain" is? For all of us new guys..
Sent from my Vibrant using XDA App..
Typos/Nonsense due to Swype!
Stock Root + RyanZA LagFix + Captive Camera MOD
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google is your best friend. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debian

yeah man, I'm pretty surprised too that no one else is interested in this! I would love to see debian get ported to work on our phones
For those who are asking, debian is a version of desktop Linux. When it works on our phones, it will essentially allow you to do almost anything you can normally do on a desktop computer.

Thanks for the link! This looks luke it would be amazing.. I hope we can eventually get this...
Sent from my Vibrant using XDA App..
Typos/Nonsense due to Swype!
Stock Root + RyanZA LagFix + Captive Camera MOD

post videos.

freekyfrogy said:
It will essentially allow you to do almost anything you can normally do on a desktop computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You mean, it'll allow you to do almost anything you can normally do on a tiny format linux desktop computer

It's all good and dandy, someone has ported Ubuntu to N1 back in a day, but the question remains:
Why would you want to run a full fledge Linux OS on your phone?
I am a linux user, and have been for quite some time, I do enjoy it on my work laptop with 14.1" of real estate, but I fail to see a huge benefit of running a complete OS on the phone.
And before everyone starts with "you know android is linux" I know that, and it is stripped down linux OS for portable devices like phones, etc. It is as good as it gets, and suits the portable device market well.
Please feel free to address my question:
Why would you want to run a full fledge Linux OS on your phone?

How about we get a port of WINE on android...

lqaddict said:
It's all good and dandy, someone has ported Ubuntu to N1 back in a day, but the question remains:
Why would you want to run a full fledge Linux OS on your phone?
I am a linux user, and have been for quite some time, I do enjoy it on my work laptop with 14.1" of real estate, but I fail to see a huge benefit of running a complete OS on the phone.
And before everyone starts with "you know android is linux" I know that, and it is stripped down linux OS for portable devices like phones, etc. It is as good as it gets, and suits the portable device market well.
Please feel free to address my question:
Why would you want to run a full fledge Linux OS on your phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was thinking the same thing. Its kinda a party piece. Look at what my phone can do. You know. I had it on my N1 and i never used it. Just like we could have windows 95 on the HD2. The only good thing i used it for on the N1 was air-crack, and i never got it to work right.

So you can compile android source on your phone, duh!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Yeah, I find it a shame that some people think debian on a phone is simply a party peice. There are too many useful reasons to list, especially the reason to have a smart phone is to expand the abilities past just "a cellphone"

lqaddict said:
It's all good and dandy, someone has ported Ubuntu to N1 back in a day, but the question remains:
Why would you want to run a full fledge Linux OS on your phone?
I am a linux user, and have been for quite some time, I do enjoy it on my work laptop with 14.1" of real estate, but I fail to see a huge benefit of running a complete OS on the phone.
And before everyone starts with "you know android is linux" I know that, and it is stripped down linux OS for portable devices like phones, etc. It is as good as it gets, and suits the portable device market well.
Please feel free to address my question:
Why would you want to run a full fledge Linux OS on your phone?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The real question is why not....
I'm sick and tired of all the negative posts in the xda forums.
why would you want camera on a phone?
why would you play games on a phone?
why would you read webpages on a phone?
why would you text on a phone?
why would you listen to music on a phone?
why would you want to go to the moon?
Is it affecting you in some way?
does someone sacrifice a kitten somewhere when someone wants to use a device for something it was not intended to?
do you enjoy stifling development?
jzero88 said:
Yeah, I find it a shame that some people think debian on a phone is simply a party peice. There are too many useful reasons to list, especially the reason to have a smart phone is to expand the abilities past just "a cellphone"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good man

scrizz said:
The real question is why not....
I'm sick and tired of all the negative posts in the xda forums.
why would you want camera on a phone?
why would you play games on a phone?
why would you read webpages on a phone?
why would you text on a phone?
why would you listen to music on a phone?
why would you want to go to the moon?
Is it affecting you in some way?
does someone sacrifice a kitten somewhere when someone wants to use a device for something it was not intended to?
do you enjoy stifling development?
good man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, why not explore the possibilities...
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

And why drive the nails down with a screwdriver?
There is no negativity coming from my question, I just needed to hear the reason people choose to run linux on their phones.
Developing a code for android phones on the phone running full linux, ok I failed to see the benefit, unless you get a hard-on from running a compiler on your phone while on a crapper. I would see how I might benefit from using some of the linux commands on my phone, like tcpdump, etc. but running a full raw OS on it is just overkill in my opinion.

And why drive the nails down with a screwdriver?
There is no negativity coming from my question, I just needed to hear the reason people choose to run linux on their phones.
Developing a code for android phones on the phone running full linux, ok I failed to see the benefit, unless you get a hard-on from running a compiler on your phone while on a crapper. I would see how I might benefit from using some of the linux commands on my phone, like tcpdump, etc. but running a full raw OS on it is just overkill in my opinion.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To probably sum it all up... MOBILITY.
First, I am sure you have several games on your phone which you play frequently. Some of those which you could play on your computer, and some maybe only on the device. If you could play games on your computer, why would you want to play them on your phone?
Virtually everything you can do on your phone you can do on your computer, ten times better. The reason we have Office Suites, Calendars that sync, Games, CAMERA!!!!, Photo Editing Tools, etc. etc. etc... the list goes on and on, is to do it mobile.
No offense, but your question is pretty ignorant.
"I just needed to hear a reason people choose to run linux on their phones"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
as an answer is funny as hell if you ask me,lol.
I think if you have nothing productive to contribute other than asking meaningless questions which is plainly obvious, especially in a forum like this, then don't post anything at all.
Only my $0.02

jzero88 said:
To probably sum it all up... MOBILITY.
First, I am sure you have several games on your phone which you play frequently. Some of those which you could play on your computer, and some maybe only on the device. If you could play games on your computer, why would you want to play them on your phone?
Virtually everything you can do on your phone you can do on your computer, ten times better. The reason we have Office Suites, Calendars that sync, Games, CAMERA!!!!, Photo Editing Tools, etc. etc. etc... the list goes on and on, is to do it mobile.
No offense, but your question is pretty ignorant.
as an answer is funny as hell if you ask me,lol.
I think if you have nothing productive to contribute other than asking meaningless questions which is plainly obvious, especially in a forum like this, then don't post anything at all.
Only my $0.02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why my question is ignorant? I am coming from a development stand point, what android (a linux port for smartphones and mobile tablets) does not do well that the full linux OS can address? I am curious... I've seen some embeded linux systems that are running the OS that requires to complete the task - packet sniffers for instance - I am pretty sure you can run the full OS on it, but it is overkill. I understand that the smartphones are our mobile gateways when we are away from computers, and as they stand right now I failed to see what the full OS can contribute to the whole mobile experience. Games? Well, now you have the whole android community asking when the cadega becomes available on android so that you can run Call of Duty, etc. on your phone.
And as far as me not contributing and asking the meaningless questions - when you come to the development board and demand that something needs to be ported on your device a developer will ask you my question:
Why do you need it? What benefits are you looking for?
So, I still to hear the answer to these questions besides the fun factor to show your co-workers look I have a penguin on my boot screen.

Look at it from this standpoint, every major phone release has hardware that can rival netbooks and ultra-portables, when the dual-core snapdragons hit later on, they may even be on par with low end notebooks. They contain cellular modems as well as wifi so you're constantly connected on a device that can fit in your pocket.
On the software side every major mobile operating system out there is constantly evolving and adding more and more features of that you can find on any PC/Linux/OSX box in the world. Albeit they're slimmed down versions, designed to be lightweight and functional on a smaller sized screen.
Add in google voice, a service that you can have your cell phone calls funneled into a single number or have your google voice number funneled into any other phone number you tell it to, plus you have skype. Installing Debian on a mobile device doesnt change the fact its still a cell phone the only it changes is how much this cell phone can do without restrictions.
Its the people who push software and hardware to there limits and into places they were never designed to be, that push the technology world and push the companies to do new things. There the pioneers who are trying to marry the inevitable before anyone else is ready. Those are the people who make companies like Google, Nokia, Intel, etc etc realize that there is potential in a risk, when there is a community ready to back them up. If it wasn't for the indie developers out there trying to minimalize linux to be used on cell phones we wouldn't have our beloved Android today.
You ask why, I'll answer because its inevitable. You can join the front lines or you can wait.

anyone having any luck hacking the webtop to run full linux?

I've been looking constantly throughout many forums and have not found anyone with a hindrance of talk about running full linux on webtop with full functionality of the phone.
I've been messing around with the terminal and tried to fish around for something and i wasn't able to find anyway to put ubuntu on this app while being able to support the phone dock accessibilities.
So far for what i know is that its running a 32bit(kinda thought it may be possible for a 64bit counting the dual core) custom UI of Debian while having some source code from Ubuntu to run Firefox. I tried to manually install chrome but was not able. From what I've noticed is that there is a special partition hidden in the root for running webtop mode through the /osh folder i believe.
I bought the the laptop dock and honestly i got to say that this phone has a LOT of potential, the problem to me is that the OS build for webtop is WAY too limited. I would like to see this thing run a full linux with possibly openoffice, chrome, etc. If anyone has any info about a possible hack or something, i'd love to learn about it.

it wud be genious to get ubunut as the 'webtop'
why not

It is Ubuntu, but it has had some things stripped out or built from local sources. Many of the packages are package-name-123.123mot and this causes lots of dep res issues when trying to add in something like xterm from ubuntu feeds.
Lets be clear, there is a linux box lurking in there waiting to be freed. Make is there, gcc is there, X is running on HDMI, there are X apps, apt is there, dpkg is there, /etc is there.
I expect we'll get an xterm running on it this week, if not sooner.

I have the laptop dock, as well. The webtop is this phone's killer feature, imo. Being able to use a full desktop browser is a huge benefit in my line of work. It would be a huge improvement to gain root access and run a more complete Ubuntu.

An update: Success on xterm!
I was able to grab a debian armel xterm and extract it (couldn't install) to /osh/tmp (seemed handy) and fire up /osh/tmp/usr/bin/xterm and display it back to my laptop. I'll have to figure out more about dpkg and why it wasn't installing correctly with this command line, which it seems should have worked:
dpkg -i xterm-armel.deb -root=/osh
We should try to use dpkg properly so we have a maintainable /osh moving forward, to do otherwise is to invite issues. I have dd'ed off my /osh file-system so I can revert when if and when I break it. My goals are fairly straight forward with this endeavor:
* SSH via /osh so it is in init.d and supports -X.
* A terminal of some sort. (half ways done)
* All done via a maintainable and revertible package manager.
To go off laying down zip files or copying around files is far from my goals and should be far from yours.

Full linux?
Arm linux is different from x86 linux. When you say full linux what exactly do you mean?
I understand the need to have it more closely resemble and function like 10.04 lts but it is more likely gonna be closer to a distro like Angstrom...

infrared411 said:
Arm linux is different from x86 linux. When you say full linux what exactly do you mean?
I understand the need to have it more closely resemble and function like 10.04 lts but it is more likely gonna be closer to a distro like Angstrom...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ARM Linux and x86 Linux are not different, except in the architecture the binaries are compiled for. The functionality is the same, regardless of the target architecture.
When I say a full Linux I mean it looks and feels like a standard Linux/Unix system with a /var, /etc, /usr, etc. with the most of the functionality we would expect (apparently working /etc/init.d and an actual /etc/passwd) and some of the binaries we know and love (dd, bash, perl, python, vim, Xorg X bits)
It appears to be Jaunty 09.04 based from looking at /etc/lsb-release. Having said that, the packages appear to have been rebuilt at Motorola and some of the deps are missing or I am reading the output incorrectly.

You are confusing desktop linux with embedded linux. For example take a look at the differences in udev.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

I hear you, but it looks pretty much like a desktop distro to me, including udev. I do note that /proc and /sys are bind mounts onto /osh/proc and /osh/sys from android, so it is bastardized in that respect.

droidbird said:
I hear you, but it looks pretty much like a desktop distro to me, including udev. I do note that /proc and /sys are bind mounts onto /osh/proc and /osh/sys from android, so it is bastardized in that respect.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly certain it's the full Ubuntu distro. They've probably snagged packages from Launchpad or such, so once we have dpkg set up, we should just be able to start running with it.

It clocks in (/osh) at 677MB with ~77MB free on the file system. It's pretty feature complete as a userspace from what I can tell.

droidbird said:
It clocks in (/osh) at 677MB with ~77MB free on the file system. It's pretty feature complete as a userspace from what I can tell.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only 77MB free... I might grab an SD card and start installing applications onto it. It'd be easy to add the respective paths to the applications on the SD card to the PATH variable via a script. (I'm thinking about being able to make something that we can pass on as a package to others in the future.
I think the biggest problem will be the RAM. I don't know Android much (2nd week messing with it) but we should find a way to close down some of the apps when launching our 'full' linux. Maybe freeze them or something. If we're using an SD card could we not partition 1GB for swap? I heard about memory problems after having 11 tabs up in Firefox, it'll only get worse with more apps.
Throw in a keyboard/mouse and we could have a desktop that we can plug into any HDMI capable tv/monitor, that would be nice!

droidbird said:
An update: Success on xterm!
I was able to grab a debian armel xterm and extract it (couldn't install) to /osh/tmp (seemed handy) and fire up /osh/tmp/usr/bin/xterm and display it back to my laptop. I'll have to figure out more about dpkg and why it wasn't installing correctly with this command line, which it seems should have worked:
dpkg -i xterm-armel.deb -root=/osh
We should try to use dpkg properly so we have a maintainable /osh moving forward, to do otherwise is to invite issues. I have dd'ed off my /osh file-system so I can revert when if and when I break it. My goals are fairly straight forward with this endeavor:
* SSH via /osh so it is in init.d and supports -X.
* A terminal of some sort. (half ways done)
* All done via a maintainable and revertible package manager.
To go off laying down zip files or copying around files is far from my goals and should be far from yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm interested in this too. I was poking around /osh and trying to get gcc to work so I could try compiling some different things.
I think my aims are slightly different than yours, but lots of the same knowledge is needed. I'm interested in getting applications to run on the phone and showing up in the webtop. i.e. I'd like to have the xterm showing up on the top, not just across the network on a remote X display, like your laptop.
I can't get gcc to work because they seem to have left out the ARM 'cc1' binary which is called.
Anyway, do you mind posting the steps you took (and the site where you got the ARM xterm binary) to get the xterm up and running on the phone? I'm trying to get an ARM cc1 so I can get gcc up and going. From there, I'm hoping I'm not from from 'configure' and 'make' to get lots of different things working. (I realize this isn't something most people would want, but I'm looking at this from the point of view of someone who might like to develop applications for the webtop.)
Also, if you can find out what the proper DISPLAY environment variable is for the webtop itself (and what to tell the 'xhost +' command to let it display X on the webtop), that would be huge for me.
I'll post anything I'm able to find out as well. The more shared knowledge, the better.

For your .deb files, take a look at Launchpad. I'm guessing that's where Motorola probably got their files from.

Does anyone have a backup of their /osh? I might of screwed some stuff up and would like to compare.

I do, currently a 4k dd of the device, ~700mb.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

the memory problem is not really an issue, you just have to manually set the partition for webtop mode to be bigger, there is an extra 10gigs built in the phone to run, all that is needed is just the edit on that.
what i mean in full Linux is that i wan't to run REAL applications, not web apps. I ran an external hard drive will movies and music and what not. I saw that this device can really handle heavy traffic like 1080p videos and it brought me to think that this device has the performance to handle a full Linux with minimal lag. a 1080p video runs at an average 2gigs and running on the ram with about at a constant of 150-250 Mb/s depending on how it is running the codec. To be honest the ram is VERY efficient, and the only problem i see to be honest is trying to stream 720p off of YouTube because the phone can't take all the speed (even when in wifi off of a t3 network). There is some limitations but the system can definetly handle high traffic off the ram.
Anyways, aside from that. I searched through the /osh and i found that there is a way to script out addons to do specific back door functions. I'm not really a code scripter so this is where im in uncharted territories. Since this is Ubuntu source code, i believe that if you design a special function script to unlock service mode within the webtop, we might get a full terminal and maybe admin functions. Then maybe we will have right to install specific functionalities. Since Motorola built this build, my guess is that they'll have a pretty complicated security to tap into service mode. Anyone find anything of such resemblance in the root of the os?

Mafisometal said:
the memory problem is not really an issue, you just have to manually set the partition for webtop mode to be bigger, there is an extra 10gigs built in the phone to run, all that is needed is just the edit on that.
what i mean in full Linux is that i wan't to run REAL applications, not web apps. I ran an external hard drive will movies and music and what not. I saw that this device can really handle heavy traffic like 1080p videos and it brought me to think that this device has the performance to handle a full Linux with minimal lag. a 1080p video runs at an average 2gigs and running on the ram with about at a constant of 150-250 Mb/s depending on how it is running the codec. To be honest the ram is VERY efficient, and the only problem i see to be honest is trying to stream 720p off of YouTube because the phone can't take all the speed (even when in wifi off of a t3 network). There is some limitations but the system can definetly handle high traffic off the ram.
Anyways, aside from that. I searched through the /osh and i found that there is a way to script out addons to do specific back door functions. I'm not really a code scripter so this is where im in uncharted territories. Since this is Ubuntu source code, i believe that if you design a special function script to unlock service mode within the webtop, we might get a full terminal and maybe admin functions. Then maybe we will have right to install specific functionalities. Since Motorola built this build, my guess is that they'll have a pretty complicated security to tap into service mode. Anyone find anything of such resemblance in the root of the os?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We have root. We could go as far as setup our own desktop environment separate from Webtop. There would be no need to worry about Motorola's security problems.

droidbird said:
An update: Success on xterm!
I was able to grab a debian armel xterm and extract it (couldn't install) to /osh/tmp (seemed handy) and fire up /osh/tmp/usr/bin/xterm and display it back to my laptop. I'll have to figure out more about dpkg and why it wasn't installing correctly with this command line, which it seems should have worked:
dpkg -i xterm-armel.deb -root=/osh
We should try to use dpkg properly so we have a maintainable /osh moving forward, to do otherwise is to invite issues. I have dd'ed off my /osh file-system so I can revert when if and when I break it. My goals are fairly straight forward with this endeavor:
* SSH via /osh so it is in init.d and supports -X.
* A terminal of some sort. (half ways done)
* All done via a maintainable and revertible package manager.
To go off laying down zip files or copying around files is far from my goals and should be far from yours.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair warning, I'm frequently wrong... but off the top of my head, I think you would need to chroot into the webtop environment in order for a dpkg / apt-get install to work correctly. From what others have posted and my own (brief) investigation, the webtop isn't completely standalone... it shares with the android environment. I've been thinking of leaving the webtop alone for now, and trying the method used to run a chrooted Ubuntu instance on the Nexus One. The risk is low, and once that is in place, I could take a shot at starting an X session that runs out the HDMI, instead of just a VNC server...
EDIT: I should have asked if you chrooted before I just assumed... Sometimes I think before I post, but not often enough.

I got xterm and xeyes to run locally
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
(binaries are from a ubuntu-jaunty-arm setup I did in qemu)
After I get a bit more working I'll post better instructions, but for tinkerers:
DISPLAY:0.0 is correct but you also need XAUTHORITY=/data/home/adas/.Xauthority
lxterminal seems to have issues running locally.
Things can be added to the dock by editing /data/home/adas/.gconf/apps/avant-window-navigator/window_manager/%gconf.xml but you'll also need to create a (standard) .desktop file. You can modify the nautilus one to browse /.
i agree package management is needed, but I don't think using the existing one is a good idea. I think either:
1) Create a ubuntu-arm based distro that can be launched when plugged into a dock/hdmi, but leave /osh mostly untouched
2) Or keep everything in a separate prefix, like macports/fink do.
A problem with using /data though is it's mounted nosuid. And /osh is near capacity already.