I have lurked here a bit, originally joining a while ago to see what was possible with my XDA, but got rid of it before becoming very active. Now I am back with a WING and prayer, and technicaly still qualify as a NOOB.....
Here are my thoughts on the NOOB issue.
1. This is like a big party that we NOOBS just crashed. We show up and complain about the music, or the booze, when in truth we ought to be damn glad we are at the party at all.
2. There is an answer to almost every question buried somewhere in these forums, and if you cannot or will not search for it, then you are in the wrong place. This includes other phone model forums by the way. Don't search the Herald forum only ad then give up if there is no answer. Dig into other HTC forums and you will be surprised how many of the issues you have are already covered there.
3. This may be a personal belief, but it really pisses me off to see people encounter 1 bug and post that the ROM sucks and they are reverting. I view our collective roles as beta testers. Don't stop at 1 bug- actively seek out as many as you can so the next ROM is that much closer to perfect. I have a major issue with the ROM I am using now, but I reflash it and dig deeper anyway.
4. You will and should get flamed (or at least warmed up) for posting questions that have been answered 100,000 times before including in the post right above yours. The Chefs in the forum spend hours or even days and months cooking up these ROMS for our benefit. They are not paid to do this, though they should be (and Ihave sent donations to several). The point is, we can all spend 30 minutes going through the forum reading it all to see if the issue we have uncovered is already discussed before posting a question.
5. If you want the most out of this site, spend some effort, not only searching, but documenting. Posting you have a crash is not helpful unless you can add information like what other programs you installed (card or device), what you did to the create the issue, and how to recreate it. Then the ROM Chefs can more quicly cook up solutions.
6. Credit those who help or provide. It is human nature to appreciate being thanked or recognized- see my signature? Without those three names my Wing would be chained to the T-Mobile default ROM. Oh yeah, while on the subject- DO NOT SELL anything from this site.
Just my 2 cents....
Yes you are right.
We all started as noobs and now we yell at noobs.
BUT MAYBE the noobs from today are a little different to noobs in earlier day??????
I READ 1 year without any posting NOT EVEN when i got something to work. BECAUSE it didn´t matter if I posted. Because it was useless at all.
There are so many people out there working really hard - they don´t need another "damn i want it in red not green...."
There was a time when everyone believed each other... When the cook stated "I will find a solution" then everyone waited for this. and didn´t mentioned it again and again...
BTW I will close the thread. WE don´t need another OFF topic "How2discuss"
I wrote an announcement in HOW2.... and maybe we can start working on devices again and not on generel human beeing problems. The world is getting worse...
BUT your statement should be read by everyone!
IT is good and it is quite good to see people thinking the same....
Thanks
I'm aware that I should probably post this is the Dev area, but I'm not a Dev yet lol and don't want to clutter up their precious 'new release' space with what I consider a n00b question.
However, I'm a budding software developer who was very interested in developing apps for android - all of my ideas have been taken up by people and though I contribute a little towards those with suggestions I would like to jump in at the deep end instead.
So i figure, why not start a thread with links to relevant places to learn how to mod the Android OS - whichever version. Not like the dev section where its pretty hardcore, but introductory links:
Everything from removing / adding bits and pieces to an established custom / stock rom, to compiling your own kernel and porting versions could be covered.
It might also offer an incentive to the best devs on the android asteroid to continue knocking out tutorials even after they've moved on to newer versions?
Anyway, just an idea, what do you guys think? Personally at the moment I'm trawling through craploads of official docs trying to get a handle on where to start!
What your looking for is the stickies. They are at the top of each forum subsection. Happy reading. Props on putting it in q&a section though.
doofah said:
I'm aware that I should probably post this is the Dev area, but I'm not a Dev yet lol and don't want to clutter up their precious 'new release' space with what I consider a n00b question.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DING DING DING! We have a winner! You sir, deserve a trophy for actually thinking!
Check out the "getting ADB up and running thread" It will point you to the android sdk and on that page you can download eclipse. Those should help you get on your way.
Resources for moddingo
Lol... Yay!! My brain was a worthwhile investment, must remember to send a letter of recommendation to my supplier!
Thanks guys I'll keep digging
My poor G1 is in for a ROUGH ride over the next few months I fear... maybe I should save for another just to be safe lol
There are several other threads that cover this. Search for those and they have links and documents relating to this.
You'll have to have knowledge on linux, java, c++, and someother stuff.
Sorry for posting this here, but I couldn't really find a suitable place since most of the Android action is right here.
These past weeks I've noticed an increase of irrelevant threads and clutter being made in regards to Android development in the HTC Dream forum and every other Android development forum on xda. A lot of Android devices out on the market now are not made by HTC. This of course is causing a problem since this forum is for HTC devices only.
Maybe it would be a good idea if a new forum was created that accounts for all native Android devices (Motorola Droid/Milestone, Motorola Cliq/Dext, Samsung Galaxy, etc...). That way, a lot of the clutter would surely be resolved and a considerate load would be taken off of this server (Gotta hate the horrible load on xda these days...).
I'm sure there are quiet a few people on here that have an HTC device and are fully satisfied with it (Me included!). That doesn't mean that everyone else has to feel the same way. People that choose to go with Samsung, Motorola, etc. for their next Android device should not be left out. That's why I believe there should definitely be a forum that serves everyone.
To put up a new forum specifically for this matter takes no time at all, but it does take participation. So if you feel like this is something you would like to see, please feel free to leave a comment.
What are you're opinions on this matter? Agree? Disagree?
Discuss.
EDIT: If there's enough people interested in this project, would there be anyone willing to help getting things started in terms of hosting space or something similar?
my thoughts are that the few changes that have been recently made should help if they are utilized. now we have a forum for general android development for devs, and the rom releases are in the device specific forums. Here was my idea, but i think they made the right choice. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4795376&postcount=1
jaaronmoody said:
my thoughts are that the few changes that have been recently made should help if they are utilized. now we have a forum for general android development for devs, and the rom releases are in the device specific forums. Here was my idea, but i think they made the right choice. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4795376&postcount=1
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a start. But I don't think xda is going to put up more sub forums for each new device out there. Thus, development and ROM threads for Motorola and other devices will be left out. Unless I understood your post incorrectly
no, you're right, i just dont think xda WANTS to keep up with every brand that uses android. they apparently keep their focus on HTC devices. there are gonna be a FLOOD of manufacturers utilizing droid in the future, and unless xda wants to change their focus, they will stick with one brand
jaaronmoody said:
no, you're right, i just dont think xda WANTS to keep up with every brand that uses android. they apparently keep their focus on HTC devices. there are gonna be a FLOOD of manufacturers utilizing droid in the future, and unless xda wants to change their focus, they will stick with one brand
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea that's exactly my point.
There WILL be a flood of Android devices from all kinds of manufacturers and it would be nice if there was a place for all of them come together. That way, everyone can keep track of specific development without having to switch between dozens of forums.
My $0.02.
good luck, my friend. Most likely it will take someone to else to start a new site to accomplish. funny, i was fooling around a couple days ago and did this. http://www.new.facebook.com/group.php?gid=176593179336&v=wall
not saying this is the solution, but you are not alone in your concerns.
I see that a few agree with me, care to share your point of view? Maybe it will spark this thing.
MODS PLEASE MOVE THIS POST. I AM SORRY FOR POSTING IT IN THE WRONG SECTION.
I don't mean to be a downer on people who've done the hard work in porting or making a working custom rom but is there point to AOSP Roms if there is no working camera? I mean isn't it a pretty big functionality that needs to be working for the ROMS to be actually released as working?
Perhaps maybe its just me who thinks if you buy the Z1 based on the fact that it has a good camera you'd want that one minor feature.
Just a thought I decided to share.
(PS: When I say camera isn't working I mean complete functionality not "It just can't focus. It does work!"
Now you have seen the point of the Q&A thread (i.e. its a place for posting questions that is better than the original dev forum) I think its time to answer your question.
the point is this is a developers forum, for developers and by developers. Not every single rom in this forum is a finished article but are works in progress. They are not here for you to be able to pick through and make your phone "cool"
They are here as on going pieces of work for people to help develop and work on.
Please read this
This is the highlight of that post and should be the last word in this thread
XDA-Devs is about developers & hackers helping each other and working together to get the most out of our devices by understanding them better than most.
XDA-Devs is not about helping everyone who wants a "Kewl bit of kit" make their phone better than the guy next to him.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, work done now doesn't have to be done in the future anymore so if they iron out all the issues already that saves a lot of time in the future right? Sure, without a working camera there will not be a lot of people using them, but I still hope sony fixes this issue in the future and when they do we at least have a bit to choose from already.
That and the fact that it might be more for themselves, to develop and get some experience or work on things, then for the end user.
gregbradley said:
Now you have seen the point of the Q&A thread (i.e. its a place for posting questions that is better than the original dev forum) I think its time to answer your question.
the point is this is a developers forum, for developers and by developers. Not every single rom in this forum is a finished article but are works in progress. They are not here for you to be able to pick through and make your phone "cool"
They are here as on going pieces of work for people to help develop and work on.
Please read this
This is the highlight of that post and should be the last word in this thread
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said my friend.
THREAD CLOSED
Its great we ve FINALLY got our own thread and sub forums, but we seem to have gone from one extreme to the other, now instead of one extremely large thread thats difficult to navigate, we have way too many fourms, sub forums and threads that are now far, far too time consuming to navigate due to the shear amount of them - the time taken checking each of the separate forums, threads and sub threads will end up being the same or longer than it was searching the entire previous massive thread. Users wishing to help others will have to spend ages checking each forum for questions they can answer. There also appears to already be instances of threads opened for one manufacturer that actually applies to all versions.
Am I the only one thinking this ?
lol @typos1. I sort of agree, but at the same time, it's better for organizing different information. If I want to quickly look up a hardware mod, I don't have to sift through hundreds of search results in the monolithic thread.
It'll definitely take some getting used to, but I think the change will ultimately be positive.
Yeah, I know the idea, but its more extreme than I expected.
I think there should be a general discussion thread that people "land" on and then go to other threads/sub forums after for advice/more info/general MTC headunit news - there needs to be a thread similar to the old one, or even the old one re-opened and people could be re-directed to relevant posts/threads. I ve already had one well known poster message me about there no longer being anywhere for them to post and we really dont wanna be losing their contributions.
typos1 said:
Yeah, I know the idea, but its more extreme than I expected.
I think there should be a general discussion thread that people "land" on and then go to other threads/sub forums after for advice/more info/general MTC headunit news - there needs to be a thread similar to the old one, or even the old one re-opened and people could be re-directed to relevant posts/threads. I ve already had one well known poster message me about there no longer being anywhere for them to post and we really dont wanna be losing their contributions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think part of the issue is the XDA redesign; device forums now land you on this "overview" page, with the main sub-forums, and then threads beneath those. The MTCB* subs should really be a top-level device page, with the individual General/Q&A/Dev/Software-Apps sub-forums beneath that. Like:
Code:
xda-developers ->
MTCB Headunits ->
\ General
\ Q&A
\ Dev
\ Software & Apps
agentdr8 said:
I think part of the issue is the XDA redesign; device forums now land you on this "overview" page, with the main sub-forums, and then threads beneath those. The MTCB* subs should really be a top-level device page, with the individual General/Q&A/Dev/Software-Apps sub-forums beneath that. Like:
Code:
xda-developers ->
MTCB Headunits ->
\ General
\ Q&A
\ Dev
\ Software & Apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah that would be MUCH better.
Yeah I really don't know if this was any better. One forum would have been manageable, this is insane.
agentdr8 said:
I think part of the issue is the XDA redesign; device forums now land you on this "overview" page, with the main sub-forums, and then threads beneath those. The MTCB* subs should really be a top-level device page, with the individual General/Q&A/Dev/Software-Apps sub-forums beneath that. Like:
Code:
xda-developers ->
MTCB Headunits ->
\ General
\ Q&A
\ Dev
\ Software & Apps
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Isn't that what you have got..?
But just with MTCB in front of it..
Don't you think it's better now that you can ...
Subscribe to a post in a forum about that particular subject/hardware mod..?
As I do for about 10 other devices and mainline foums I follow..so when I use tapatalk (when its working )
I have them all laid out in front of me..
Jezz is that poster for real..suggesting that a over 2,000 post thread is better then what we have got now..
Think about it..give it a few months and it would have been 4,000 posts in one thread..
Let this settle..quit *****ing and thanks to the guys for letting it happen..
Easy fix... Subscribe to the thread you are interested in..done..no more digging and you have it locked in..not that hard really..
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
dgcruzing said:
Isn't that what you have got..?
But just with MTCB in front of it..
Don't you think it's better now that you can ...
Subscribe to a post in a forum about that particular subject/hardware mod..?
As I do for about 10 other devices and mainline foums I follow..so when I use tapatalk (when its working )
I have them all laid out in front of me..
Jezz is that poster for real..suggesting that a over 2,000 post thread is better then what we have got now..
Think about it..give it a few months and it would have been 4,000 posts in one thread..
Let this settle..quit *****ing and thanks to the guys for letting it happen..
Easy fix... Subscribe to the thread you are interested in..done..no more digging and you have it locked in..not that hard really..
Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not "*****ing" but valid criticism, things are more difficult and more complex than they were before, theres far too many threads and forums to keep track of everything, as I said, things have gone from one extreme to the other and theres seems to be a total lack of moderation - theres a thread for Joying units when Joying simply re-sell Joyous units, you think a moderator would allow an "Amazon Glaxy S6" thread in the smartphones section ? It would be merged or closed cos of dupilcation. I wanna keep abreast of all the latest develoment and now I have to spend a HELL of a lot more time checking multiple threads to do that, whereas before I had just one thread to read. I ve been participating in the the original thread for the last 2 years I ve often called for a proper forum for these units, but as I said in my post, we ve gone from one extreme to the other and things are worse than they were previously, I d never have called for our own forum if I knew things would be like this.
typos1 said:
Not "*****ing" but valid criticism, things are more difficult and more complex than they were before, theres far too many threads and forums to keep track of everything, as I said, things have gone from one extreme to the other and theres seems to be a total lack of moderation - theres a thread for Joying units when Joying simply re-sell Joyous units, you think a moderator would allow an "Amazon Glaxy S6" thread in the smartphones section ? It would be merged or closed cos of dupilcation. I wanna keep abreast of all the latest develoment and now I have to spend a HELL of a lot more time checking multiple threads to do that, whereas before I had just one thread to read. I ve been participating in the the original thread for the last 2 years I ve often called for a proper forum for these units, but as I said in my post, we ve gone from one extreme to the other and things are worse than they were previously, I d never have called for our own forum if I knew things would be like this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree.
I think you are missing the point...
Granted you have been in that same thread for two years..and you have got a handle on it..
But what about the thousands of users that are going to be looking for the same answers that are getting mapped out in their own [email protected] threads.
Let's revisit this again in a few months and see how we are going..
All good ...
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk
dgcruzing said:
I think you are missing the point...
Granted you have been in that same thread for two years..and you have got a handle on it..
But what about the thousands of users that are going to be looking for the same answers that are getting mapped out in their own [email protected] threads.
Let's revisit this again in a few months and see how we are going..
All good ...
Sent from my TF300T using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you have TOTALLY missed my point - its partly them I m thinking about, theres stuff theyre never gonna know cos they dont realise that their JY unit is effectively the same as a KGL unit so they wont check the KGL thread cos as far as theyre aware they dont have one of those. The MASSIVE thread that was running for 2 years proves that hardly anyone bothers to read the first posts/sticky, so its highly unlikely they ll ever realise . . . and yet, they might well decide theyd prefer the KGL ROM, or the KLD built in apps, for instance, but they may never know about it or that they can use it.
We need multiple threads relating to different branded/manufacturer's units merged, because they are effectively the same product. Similarly, software mods apply to all versions, so threads for instance, about apps or a ROM for JY units (probably started by well meaning, but less knowledgeable posters) should be merged or re-titled because the software can be run on ANY MTCB headunit type with matching processor/screen res (with the exception of some screen mirroring apps for the RK3188 which wont run on RK3066 versions). But separate hardware mod threads like for example, how to do the mic mod to JY version - which is slightly different to the mic mod for a KGL version, which in turn is slightly different to the one for KLD version - left alone as this is done to the slight hardware differences between the different units.
Whats needed is a half way house between one massive thread and multiple forums and threads weve suddenly got now.
BTW, you DONT have a "CarJoying" unit, CarJoying are simply re-sellers of units made by Shenzhen Joyous, your unit is no more a "CarJoying" unit than a Galaxy S6 bought from Amazon is an "Amazon" Galaxy S6 - you have a Joyous unit, or a JY. I think this kinda proves my point.
Soon, there ll be "CarJoying" threads and JY threads for units that are identical ! - MADNESS. Needs to be sorted.
My opinion on forum & threads
--
Not to knock all the effort that has gone into splitting off the massive thread, I agree with the sentiments posted here
Dedicated forum was good in theory...
Perhaps I'm just old and used to how it was
Okay let me sort out some things:
We were fighting for our own section a logn time on the main thread. Now we goot it you don't want them anymore...
Wow...
Okay to come to your arguments:
I told @MikeChannon it would be better to have a "device" but he decided to do it that way as it's fitting better here.
Of course we can reopen the main thread but it's better to have knowledge separated.
What do you guys think about this:
Re-Open the Main thread for general questions (e.g. searching for information).
Leave the rest as it is and especially leave the information (knowledge) at their own threads.
It is much easier to find things like Apps, Mods, ROMs etc in that strucutre as it was in this big thread. also it's easier to follow specific topics.
What I agree with you is that it's harder to keep track of the mass of new thread or of greater masses of topics.
You now don't have one thread bloated with masses of information but four sections with "masses" of threads.
I am sure @MikeChannon will have a look into this thread and I hope he will think about changing our section to a device section again.
It really is a bit irritating to have our forums directly next to the other Android Auto sections.
I suggested to do things that way: XDA -> Android Auto -> MTCB -> Sections here but Mike told me there is a problem with some mobile apps when having forums deeper than two levels.
//Edit:
I also received a PN suggesting to reduce the number of forums.
Let's discuss that here please.
What would you want? Just split up into Knowledge and Q&A? Or even just one big forum with everything in it? But I think that yould be too mixed up then. I would suggest - if we decide to request to change the structure again that we leave at least Q&A and Knowledge sepearated.
When it comes to the issue that people split up between pumpkin, klyde etc I can ask Mike to change the info box above the forums.
Please also note that some of those mentioned threads are from the past? I moved them here from android auto section as it's of course also MTCB.
Honestly I don't know what the fuss is about..apart from a individual not wanting problems he has brought in the main thread started as a thread.. If that's the case then 'can' those threads and let nature take its course..
as am example..and laid out pretty much as a dummies guide to how XDA has always been once a piece of equipment warrents its own sub-forums.. And note.. It not just a joy thing..any of these sub forums can morf in the " best of'.. Ie.. If a super manufacture comes along and blows everyone out of the water then..there will be roms, software and [email protected] going for them under these very sub forums..
K.. So lets use some examples..
{
"lightbox_close": "Close",
"lightbox_next": "Next",
"lightbox_previous": "Previous",
"lightbox_error": "The requested content cannot be loaded. Please try again later.",
"lightbox_start_slideshow": "Start slideshow",
"lightbox_stop_slideshow": "Stop slideshow",
"lightbox_full_screen": "Full screen",
"lightbox_thumbnails": "Thumbnails",
"lightbox_download": "Download",
"lightbox_share": "Share",
"lightbox_zoom": "Zoom",
"lightbox_new_window": "New window",
"lightbox_toggle_sidebar": "Toggle sidebar"
}
The sub forums as they stand..
Right let's go and have a look at the Samsung S5 forums..as they stand..
K...to keep this debate fair..let's throw in a few more that I personally follow.. Via mostly the tapatalk app..
So with the understanding that as Mike has pointed out..going deeper then 2 layers causes problems for mobile.. We can see a very clear pattern that is emerging..
So lets revisit how it is now and take in to account..with a little more modding (and don't get me started on that unless you want to put your hand up to be a mod.. I haven't as I have another life outside XDA forums.. But with that in mind..I take my hat off to mods who give thier free time to keep such threads under control..a thankless task..)
Anyway..back on track..back to where we stand..
So tell me after viewing my post what is so vastly different then any other device that gets a huge following..zip..zilch..
We now have a well laid out plan of sub forums in which an organic growth of inputs can be directed..instead of a unwieldy huge thread that contains posts of hardware mods..software and roms..
As stated..let it ride for a few more months to sort its self out..
Wipe the threads that people want wiped as for sure the same question is going to pop up and it will be answered.
--
I suppose it was inevitable that things would not work perfectly in everyone's mind with this transition. Probably it shouldn't have been allowed to get as far as it did before some additional forums were set up. (unavoidably therefore some people are going to say, "I only had one place to look in before, now I've got several places to look, this isn't better, it's worse"). This always happens when a device(s) grows in interest to a point where it has to be split.
The forums that were created are broadly the same as for any other device here at XDA. In fact devices also have separate themes and Apps and Accessories forums in addition. What may make it appear different is the fact these new forums are coming under Android Auto which isn't technically correct and we may sort that out, but essentially you now have very similar forums to other devices.
I know for some who had lived with the old enormous thread and knew where things were, this was bound to feel like disorganisation rather that making life simpler. However, I received numerous complaints that things were getting messy and impossible to find because they were not categorized into standard forums with shorter threads.
That said, if you want a general thread as someone suggested, then have one.
I saw someone suggest that several devices use the same software and don't need separate threads. I understand that although that's a difficult message to get across to newer users who don't realize this and create new threads. It may sound simple to merge such threads together but merging causes confusion as they merge in date order and and you end up with a mess of posts that don't follow each other and make sense anymore. My experience also tells me that when we've tried merging in the past we get angry users saying things like "you might think these devices are the same or use the same software but you are wrong, there are subtle and important differences and I created a new thread for a reason!!!, now you merged it and created a mess". Not sure I have an easy answer to this point.
I saw a user above say he wasn't happy with his posts being separated out into different threads though he did understand it was for good intentions. From my point of view I don't mind if certain posts are copied back to the huge thread but keep in mind we're all trying to create something that will work going forward for new users and for people who are familiar with our standard types of forum.
I'm not sure of the value in re-opening the long thread. I'm not against it as a sort of general discussion place, but I feel that distinct items shoould now be entered in the appropriate forum.
Overall, the feedback I've had is positive. Generally folk say they now know where to look even if it does mean watching/bookmarking more than one thread/forum. Painful for some but it was always going to happen with a popular type of device. You know before, (and I use a head unit myself), there is no way on earth I would have attempted to read through a 2100 page thread, but after these new forums/threads have been created I've begun to take an interest. This is important, people arriving here as new users and from other device forums expect to find things appropriately organized and in a fairly standard way, although I completely understand that this will be annoying and feel like extra work finding things for those that built up the existing long threads. We need to give it time I think and let it settle. That's not to say you can't discuss specific things with Alex who can move or copy things to achieve best results... keep in mind though that we do need ultimately to split things up even if we need to feel our way a bit for a while.
Mike
First of all thanks for your thoughts and statement on this, Mike.
MikeChannon said:
I'm not sure of the value in re-opening the long thread. I'm not against it as a sort of general discussion place, but I feel that distinct items shoould now be entered in the appropriate forum.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I comply with this 100%.
What do you guys think about that: Keep the old ultrabig thread closed but create a new one in Q&A for people feeling lost.
Its meant for people searching for directions and for simple minimalistic questions.
A second thread could be for choosing the right unit and questions a la "Is this a MTCB unit".
Both could be pinned for easy access and good presence.
What is the exact reasons why you would like to have the old thread reopened? Can't we achieve this on another way?
--
dsa8310 said:
.
I have noticed that I have become, over night, the author of five OPs. I'm flattered. Unfortunately only two of them are remotely related or relevant to my work, and in any case I would organize things entirely differently. So please remove me from those threads. Please move the posts back to the general old thread so that they are not lost. Those threads are of no interest to nobody.
]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Done.
Mike