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<RANT>
HOW COULD HE SERIOUSLY SAY THE SENTENCE WAS TOO HARSH? HE GOT THE MINIMUM FOR THAT SENTENCE. AND DUDE CONSPIRED TO OUT A CIA AGENT. PUT THE LADY AND HER FAMILY IN HARMS WAY AND THEN LIED TO THE GRAND JURY, JUDGE, PROSECUTORS, AND FBI ABOUT IT.
IF THIS WAS A THIRD WORLD COUNTRY HE WOULD BE PUT IN FRONT OF A FIRING SQUAD FOR TREASON.
</END RANT>
Dang Yankee fans... they get all upset when their team sucks.
Madcap180 said:
Dang Yankee fans... they get all upset when their team sucks.
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I wear my yankee emblem proudly.
well if libby was really just the fallguy for rovoe or even cheney
maybe they had too for him to keep his trap shut
Impeach Dubya
Oh don't even get me started talking about our Village Idiot. I keep telling myself that in 2008 we will all wake up from a very bad dream!! After his daddy's joke of a Presidency, I KNEW not to vote for Dubya...so don't blame me...I laugh daily at all the Bush-isms, and cry because of how ridiculous the US must look right now to other countries. To all those folks NOT from the US...trust me when I say, the US doesn't want this jackass (or at least the citizens who aren't multi-gazillionaires)...and now THIS????? They went after Bill for booty calls, why in Hell's name aren't we doing something about our slimebag Prez= IMPEACHING his @ss???
UGGG...one more year...one more year...one more year (it seems to be my new mantra).
saw some covering of him going to albania
it was mentioned that he was more popular there then
in us at the moment
but then recall blair being more popular in us then in uk so maybe thats normal enough
National Jester...
Hmm...was he talking about the speech-bungling-ever-so-clumsy Bush or immaculate-speaking (even-though-lying-through-his-teeth) Blair ?
I would presume the ultimate crown of village idiot goes to Bush...and many do agree.
Now to the issue at hand - Scooter Libby did as he was told - period !
I am sure we are all smart enough to see that, and why should he go to jail for the ever scheming Cheney? Not that I am a fan of www.counterpunch.org (they seem a bunch of disgruntled ex-CIA, ex-FBI ex-XYZ), but they do give you a balanced view to the intrigues of American polics. Those guys were right on the money, even before the Bush intervention was public.
Just do as Mike said...come back home wayward 'poodle'....err more like 'Rottweiler'
lol
AD10 said:
Hmm...was he talking about the speech-bungling-ever-so-clumsy Bush or immaculate-speaking (even-though-lying-through-his-teeth) Blair ?
I would presume the ultimate crown of village idiot goes to Bush...and many do agree.
Now to the issue at hand - Scooter Libby did as he was told - period !
I am sure we are all smart enough to see that, and why should he go to jail for the ever scheming Cheney? Not that I am a fan of www.counterpunch.org (they seem a bunch of disgruntled ex-CIA, ex-FBI ex-XYZ), but they do give you a balanced view to the intrigues of American polics. Those guys were right on the money, even before the Bush intervention was public.
Just do as Mike said...come back home wayward 'poodle'....err more like 'Rottweiler'
lol
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he did what he was told involving the leak of valerie plame.
now the reason he got convicted because he got caught in lies. the whole point of this thing was for him to tell the truth. if he did, some very important people would have had to go down. like, carl rove. carl rove would have been in the hot seat and would have had to name names. and he would have named the big ****. and it would be all down hill from there.
he lied to protect his cabinet. so he should be in jail. he broke a federal law.
people who break laws, should be in jail.
btw: dont act like its just bush alone who is an idiot. if a scholar follows an idiot, then how much of a scholar can he really be? (speaking of course about tony blair)
well as i understand it near the end of the presidency they get to hand out a get out of jail free card
recall something like it with clinton but forget it the public outcry caused him to avoid doing it anyway
maybe libby was promised a pardon later on to keep his mouth shut
personaly i dont think anybody really think that it's right or fair
many people in the history have been punished even if they were just
acting under orders
free will should cause one to take ones own stand no matter what anybody tells you to....
I think we all forget at times that this is no longer a govt for the people by the people but a govt for the rich and corporations. by the rich and corporations. That's all right though cuz soon us middle of the line folks will be ran down till there is nothing left for them to take. And then who will wipe there as#@.
Back home in Boston a FBI agent was sentenced to like 20 years or something like that for helping out a mob guy named Whitey Bulger.. He got more of a sentence then Libby did.. lol
Rudegar said:
well as i understand it near the end of the presidency they get to hand out a get out of jail free card
recall something like it with clinton but forget it the public outcry caused him to avoid doing it anyway
maybe libby was promised a pardon later on to keep his mouth shut
personaly i dont think anybody really think that it's right or fair
many people in the history have been punished even if they were just
acting under orders
free will should cause one to take ones own stand no matter what anybody tells you to....
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thats exactly my point here. he had a chance to be a man, or a pawn of the establishment. and he conformed to protect the very people that put him in harms way to begin with.
this transcends party lines. lets forget for a minute that clinton, bush sr, regan, and nixon have all pardoned people. is that the excuse now, because your predecessor has pardoned people, you have to? why can't each man stand on his own record? bush has made it clear that he will not hand out pardons and sentence commutes to the guilty. why should he turn back on his word now?
this makes me feel like our justice system is a big joke. even martha stewart got a year for insider trading. lil kim got a year and a day for the same exact thing libby did... lie to the feds. my parents taught me that if i did the wrong thing i will go to jail. what example is this setting for the rest of the country and the youngsters growing up watching this?
<avoids inserting NY joke here>
who did Clinton pardon anyway? .. and .. Since Bush was re-elected, does that mean he got 2 free pardons? lol.. since one of his terms ended already..
Madcap180 said:
<avoids inserting NY joke here>
who did Clinton pardon anyway? .. and .. Since Bush was re-elected, does that mean he got 2 free pardons? lol.. since one of his terms ended already..
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010120/aponline135239_000.htm
nobody significant. the most controversial one was hillary's brother. i mean i think they should do away with the pardon thing all together. executive privilege is out of hand.
presidents can pardon how many people they want. they hand out get out of jail free cards like its candy.
Impeach Dubya
The truth is that Dubya has been a liar and cheat since day ONE. He can care less about the average American, and rather goes out of his way to line the pockets of the rich buddies who got him into office ($3.31/gallon gas??? Puleez!)...our unemployment levels are insane, are property sales are bottomed out, our economy is far from stable...there are more people living in the U.S at poverty level than there were during the great depression...seriously WTF??? Nobody wants this so-called "War on Terror" to continue, the death toll is beginning to look like Vietnam, and even the soldiers who traditionally are treated well, have been losing benefits and pay...so why serve? In 7 years Dubya has taken us from a healthy and stable economy and growth to sh*t, we are losing allies, and the rest of the world sees the U.S as a bully and/or joke. And sadly it is because of our dipsh*t figurehead and his lying cabinet, when in truth most Americans do not want any association with him...well except for Florida and Ohio (thank the lord he cannot run for a 3rd term)...and for the record, the RIAA/MPAA have prosecuted, won, and served harder punishments on pirates than Libby faced, or was released from. Even Paris Hilton had to have her few short weeks in jail...yet Libby goes free???? To say that this will be a hardship for his family still, despite his not going to jail...he willingly lied and saved the collective asses of the Presidency and Cabinet...if this isn't a reason to call for impeachment I don't know what is!!! Let's compare...a blowjob or swindling and cheating America, lying about the war, commuting sentence on what should be treason...or a blowjob...WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE??? I say let the Prez get booty calls...kept the economy stable and healthy, kept us out of a war, created jobs...a happy Prez is an ok Prez (have yet to see a good Prez)...JFK got tons of booty calls and is remembered as a fantastic Prez...think about it.
"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." Dubya, August 2004, Washington, DC
end rant.
told you not to get me started talking about the Idiot.
akashastrega said:
The truth is that Dubya has been a liar and cheat since day ONE. He can care less about the average American, and rather goes out of his way to line the pockets of the rich buddies who got him into office ($3.31/gallon gas??? Puleez!)...our unemployment levels are insane, are property sales are bottomed out, our economy is far from stable...there are more people living in the U.S at poverty level than there were during the great depression...seriously WTF??? Nobody wants this so-called "War on Terror" to continue, the death toll is beginning to look like Vietnam, and even the soldiers who traditionally are treated well, have been losing benefits and pay...so why serve? In 7 years Dubya has taken us from a healthy and stable economy and growth to sh*t, we are losing allies, and the rest of the world sees the U.S as a bully and/or joke. And sadly it is because of our dipsh*t figurehead and his lying cabinet, when in truth most Americans do not want any association with him...well except for Florida and Ohio (thank the lord he cannot run for a 3rd term)...and for the record, the RIAA/MPAA have prosecuted, won, and served harder punishments on pirates than Libby faced, or was released from. Even Paris Hilton had to have her few short weeks in jail...yet Libby goes free???? To say that this will be a hardship for his family still, despite his not going to jail...he willingly lied and saved the collective asses of the Presidency and Cabinet...if this isn't a reason to call for impeachment I don't know what is!!! Let's compare...a blowjob or swindling and cheating America, lying about the war, commuting sentence on what should be treason...or a blowjob...WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG HERE??? I say let the Prez get booty calls...kept the economy stable and healthy, kept us out of a war, created jobs...a happy Prez is an ok Prez (have yet to see a good Prez)...JFK got tons of booty calls and is remembered as a fantastic Prez...think about it.
end rant.
told you not to get me started talking about the Idiot.
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*claps*
that was perfect. the only thing ill add is that... there is nothing wrong with a "war on terror". but we cannot, or should not terrorize people to stop terror. all its doing is helping recruit more terrorists. i have family in the armed forces. so i feel sorrow for the troops who have died because of this war. but on a human level i also feel for the 30,000+ civilians (women and children, and innocent men) that died in iraq. how can we force a democracy on a country that ever asked for it in the first place. the last country that tried force something on us, we kicked their ass (england, lol). why can't the same logic go into our foreign policy?
the sentence communication that the president granted single handedly shot down any moral high ground this presidency had left. they are total users and abusers of the system. and the dems are no better for letting it happen.
republicans are blind followers, and dems are spineless bureaucrats with all talk.
i think im going to change my party affiliation to indepenant
wonder if senat could stop those pardons if they wanted to?
was ROFL when bush used the senat's hollyday to get Bolton the un ambassador elected by himself because the senat dident want to vote for him
thats pretty wacked democracy
I come from a military family. My mom, dad and step dad served, my grandpa served, 2 uncles served, my husband served...I have a strong dose of patriotism running through my veins. That said, it is appalling what the troops and their families have had to endure under the Dubya Admin. An article 36 was filed against a soldier in Hawaii for refusing to go to Iraq and (as he stated it) be forced to murder innocents in the name of oil. If found guilty, his military career will end, he will do time, and will forever have problems getting a good-paying job, as the article 36 and dishonorable discharge will forever follow him. He will lose any pension and VA benefits. All for standing up for his beliefs. Libby?? He gets first a slap on the wrist, follow by a presidential release to serve time. WTF????? WTF????? WTF?????
I will always support the soldiers. They and their families make so many sacrifices for crappy pay, and possibly death....but I do not and will not support Dubya and his lies. His "war on terror", or rather fight to control oil producing countries. Saddam is dead. Where is Osama, and why hasn't he been brought in? It is no longer a terrorist hunt, it is an issue of Dubya insuring his oil buddies interests, rather than the interests of U.S.
Libby was (I'm sure) aware of this, and probably knew of items proving this...he "took one for the team" so to speak, and for doing so, Bush covered his @ss. Just one more thing I wish to use as a nail in the coffin of Dubya's lying, cheating presidency.
I am kind of anti military .. well, not anti military, I respect the guys who were DRAFTED into the army more than the ones who CHOSE to go and then WHINE about it later.... I dunno.. I can't stand the way George Bush always says 'This war is about protecting the way of life in America' ?? I dont get it, what does Iraq have to do with how WE live? .. we spend 100's of billions of dollars on rebuilding a country, but somewhere in the ghetto's of LA and New York some homeless family can't even get a bite to eat..
FIX HOME FIRST.. hypoctite.
Madcap180 said:
I am kind of anti military .. well, not anti military, I respect the guys who were DRAFTED into the army more than the ones who CHOSE to go and then WHINE about it later.... I dunno.. I can't stand the way George Bush always says 'This war is about protecting the way of life in America' ?? I dont get it, what does Iraq have to do with how WE live? .. we spend 100's of billions of dollars on rebuilding a country, but somewhere in the ghetto's of LA and New York some homeless family can't even get a bite to eat..
FIX HOME FIRST.. hypoctite.
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point taken...
however, murphy says "where a man stands on an issue depends on where he sits".
bush, nor his cabinet can relate to a homeless family in la or new york. to a lot of people, they have the mind set of "why can't they just get a job". they dont understand the social ills in the innercity or how to change them. most of the guys who make the laws were born with a silver spoon, most of the guys who look up to them are dirt poor.
p.s. thats whats really wrong with the republican party. their base is so blind that they dont even realize that their representatives dont even represent them. i always find it amazing when i have a discussion with a middle class white person that they are republican and dont even know why. their party does absolutely nothing for them.
dont blame the troops though. they take advantage of what options are available to them. the armed forces recruit in the inner cities and the poor rural areas because they know those people hardly other options. it is only after they get out of the military that they understand what was really going on all along. while in the military i think they feel they have an obligation to not question their leaders. i guess they see that as insubordination. however, leaders are human too. and they are also american.
i'll end by saying this. i can't stand when another american questions my patriotism because i am against this war. i was against this war from the start. when it was UNCOOL to speak out against the war. and i still am against the war. i support the troops but i do not support what they are doing in iraq.
i thank akashastrega's family for their contribution.
8 year old boy confess to murder
This almost makes me sick to my stomach. Watching the videos that are linked are even worse. The police did not read him his rights or even attempt to allow a guardian or parent to be involved. He said from the beginning that he found his Dad and friend dead when he came home from school and then half way through after an interrogation changed his story to admitting he killed them. Now who knows maybe the kid did shoot his Dad and friend but it sounds to me like these cops are willing to do anything and sink to a new low in Criminal justice.
Many morons there, i assume...
First of all...were you there....do you know all of the facts of the case....do you know if they had a magistrate's warning for the child....do you know anything about procedures, laws, case law or are you just spewing from your mouth. What makes me upset....is that people jump to conclusions without knowing all of the facts...as you can tell by my name I am a cop...a detective in fact....so I am familiar with procedures...and I am sure that the detectives that worked this case, were by the book...if they werent guess what the court will let them know....
Man, How do you know they are showing you the WHOLE tape? I don't think even the Newest Cop would interrogate a child with out following the proper procedure. That would be like me flashing an Incorrect Radio to my phone and asking why I don't have Sound. I'm experienced. I know what I need to do.
I think your anger is misplaced. I think you are appalled that an eight year old could be capable of such an act. But however, they are. So don't be mad at the cops. They are just the messenger.
Being from a city that has seen 4 cops murdered within 6 months, I take extreme offense to the accusations being thrown around here.
Since you weren't the person who recorded the video, then how can you assume you are viewing it in it's entirety? Scum comes in all forms/ages, and I for one, believe the kid is a murderer.
there' are good cops and bad cops!
just cus he/she is a cop, that doesnt automatically makes him/her a good person!
blind belief in authority causes great crimes... allways... thats a lesson from history.. and these cops didnt follow procedure according to the article!
i think when looking at the american justice system its EXTREMELY plausible that these cops just told this 8 year old he was the purpitrator....
avathar behemoth said:
blind belief in authority causes great crimes... allways... thats a lesson from history.. and these cops didnt follow procedure according to the article!
i think when looking at the american justice system its EXTREMELY plausible that these cops just told this 8 year old he was the purpitrator....
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Did I say I had blind belief?
No I said, Don't make sweeping accusations without all the information. And honestly, the American Media is not a good source for information. It's "infotainment"
JimmyMcGee said:
Man, How do you know they are showing you the WHOLE tape? I don't think even the Newest Cop would interrogate a child with out following the proper procedure. That would be like me flashing an Incorrect Radio to my phone and asking why I don't have Sound. I'm experienced. I know what I need to do.
I think your anger is misplaced. I think you are appalled that an eight year old could be capable of such an act. But however, they are. So don't be mad at the cops. They are just the messenger.
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if they are not showing the WHOLE tape, are they hiding something?
slawcop` said:
First of all...were you there....do you know all of the facts of the case....do you know if they had a magistrate's warning for the child....do you know anything about procedures, laws, case law or are you just spewing from your mouth. What makes me upset....is that people jump to conclusions without knowing all of the facts...as you can tell by my name I am a cop...a detective in fact....so I am familiar with procedures...and I am sure that the detectives that worked this case, were by the book...if they werent guess what the court will let them know....
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First of all i would like to say thank you (Slawcop) for your post as i am a LEO in Mich. Crazy how people can just start running their mouths without even knowing what exactly is going on. The news/media just want people to see what they want them to see point blank! "We" as Police Officer see everything that goes on, we get ALL the FACTS/INFO! Maybe they should try to get into a Police Academy and see if they have what it take to become a Officer!!!!!
the boy was not read his rights bc he was assumed to be a victom...not accused of anything...then the story changed and so did the situation.
Ridiculous.
slawcop` said:
First of all...were you there....do you know all of the facts of the case....do you know if they had a magistrate's warning for the child....do you know anything about procedures, laws, case law or are you just spewing from your mouth. What makes me upset....is that people jump to conclusions without knowing all of the facts...as you can tell by my name I am a cop...a detective in fact....so I am familiar with procedures...and I am sure that the detectives that worked this case, were by the book...if they werent guess what the court will let them know....
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Firstly, isn't it your job to jump to conclusions without knowing all of the facts? You create a painting with select facts and then when you get a confession the rest is filled in. This is how a lot of crimes are solved...on good hunches. So I think I should be able to make a judgment on something in an open discussion forum.
Hmmm...perhaps I should have said These cops are ridiculous. My question to you is that if a major crime happened and you were under suspicion would you answer any questions asked? My belief would be that you would immediately get a lawyer and refuse to answer anything, this is because as a police officer you know that they try to use your words against you and confuse you into a confession....or talk you into it. This is fine for a capable adult who can make decisions. However using these tactics on a 8 year old is beyond detestable. These cops did not play it by the book. They did not read the Miranda rights, or try to find a gaurdian they simply lead this child into a confession and then charged him with murder. Again it's beside the point whether or not he did it, it's the low these cops sank too to get what they wanted. Not surprising with an adult, but with a child? Puh-lease.
Also just remember that the seal on the side of your car states "to protect and serve" and not "what are you looking at?". We have every right to question police action.
For the record I dated a CSI whose immediately family were all in the police force. So it's not like I "hate" cops or anything.
well said burgertime!
but isnt any and all evidence, including any confession, inadmissible in court?
isnt that why not the whole tape is released?
reminds me about the story about that cop in the oj trial (mark fuhrman wasnt it?) who let a (probably) guilty guy walk because he "contaminated" evidence, oh and because he was a racist who enjoyed beating up people of colour.......cops should behave better than normal citizens, but i think in many american police departments respectable behaviour is discouraged.
whytestme said:
First of all i would like to say thank you (Slawcop) for your post as i am a LEO in Mich. Crazy how people can just start running their mouths without even knowing what exactly is going on. The news/media just want people to see what they want them to see point blank! "We" as Police Officer see everything that goes on, we get ALL the FACTS/INFO! Maybe they should try to get into a Police Academy and see if they have what it take to become a Officer!!!!!
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Wouldnt that be nice is to have all citizens required to pull a stint in the military and or police force....I bet that would change some of these peoples opinions..
burgertime said:
Firstly, isn't it your job to jump to conclusions without knowing all of the facts? You create a painting with select facts and then when you get a confession the rest is filled in. This is how a lot of crimes are solved...on good hunches. So I think I should be able to make a judgment on something in an open discussion forum.
Hmmm...perhaps I should have said These cops are ridiculous. My question to you is that if a major crime happened and you were under suspicion would you answer any questions asked? My belief would be that you would immediately get a lawyer and refuse to answer anything, this is because as a police officer you know that they try to use your words against you and confuse you into a confession....or talk you into it. This is fine for a capable adult who can make decisions. However using these tactics on a 8 year old is beyond detestable. These cops did not play it by the book. They did not read the Miranda rights, or try to find a gaurdian they simply lead this child into a confession and then charged him with murder. Again it's beside the point whether or not he did it, it's the low these cops sank too to get what they wanted. Not surprising with an adult, but with a child? Puh-lease.
Also just remember that the seal on the side of your car states "to protect and serve" and not "what are you looking at?". We have every right to question police action.
For the record I dated a CSI whose immediately family were all in the police force. So it's not like I "hate" cops or anything.
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Ok…are you really that naïve? It is obvious that you are that uninformed about this case and obviously about what it takes to be a police officer. I don’t jump to any conclusions…I take fact and reasonable prudent means when investigating. I don’t “fill” anything in based off of hunch…..Hunches don’t solve crime..nor have they ever….facts and evidence charge a person with a crime……Probable Cause…charges someone, reasonable suspicion to stop someone, proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone…..no where in there is there anything about hunches….I don’t convict anyone…judges and jury do…..I just present them with the facts of the case not hunches or hearsay, which you obviously listen to. If your going to make a judgment at least make an educated, sound judgment and don’t quote CNN.
You don’t know these cops are ridiculous. They might have made mistakes, but you quoting what CNN is saying it pretty uninformed on your part since you aren’t there. For you information and to answer your question..i have been accused and under suspicion for a crime before and yes I have and would answer questions. I wouldn’t get a lawyer because I have nothing to hide….I am not some unethical, untrustworthy, human being….I am a man who can and will admit when he messes up…See what is wrong with this world today is that everyone wants to blame everyone else for their problems instead of taking responsibility. Us as men are the main culprits…I am a MAN….I don’t need a lawyer nor are you offered one until you are charged….This is the way it works for all….What I really love about your statement is this, “this is because as a police officer you know that they try to use your words against you and confuse you into a confession....or talk you into it.” OMG….and I really hate using that…try to use your words against you…and confuse you into a confession or talk you into it…are you kidding me….that has to be a joke right…I am not even going to dignify that with a response. Grow up man, stop watching cop drama movies and listen to the news and educate yourself about the facts of not only the criminal justice system, but life in general.
“Again it's beside the point whether or not he did it, it's the low these cops sank too to get what they wanted. Not surprising with an adult, but with a child? Puh-lease.” I love this one too, it is beside the point….yeah two lives are lost and that is the point…remember that…if the cops screwed up then they screwed up…they “we” are human cut us some slack. If you think you can do it….come on with it.
I am very aware of what the side of a car says. I can even tell you what my oath is…so I don’t need some uninformed person telling me what my job is especially when you don’t know…”
Well I am glad you dated a CSI…that means absolutely nothing….and it completely irrelevant. The entire point in my response is that you don’t know anything about the case, but yet you are quick to call it….know the facts before you put your name as a “MAN” behind what your saying…
JimmyMcGee said:
Man, How do you know they are showing you the WHOLE tape? I don't think even the Newest Cop would interrogate a child with out following the proper procedure. That would be like me flashing an Incorrect Radio to my phone and asking why I don't have Sound. I'm experienced. I know what I need to do.
I think your anger is misplaced. I think you are appalled that an eight year old could be capable of such an act. But however, they are. So don't be mad at the cops. They are just the messenger.
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NotATreoFan said:
Being from a city that has seen 4 cops murdered within 6 months, I take extreme offense to the accusations being thrown around here.
Since you weren't the person who recorded the video, then how can you assume you are viewing it in it's entirety? Scum comes in all forms/ages, and I for one, believe the kid is a murderer.
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Well said both of you....
avathar behemoth said:
well said burgertime!
but isnt any and all evidence, including any confession, inadmissible in court?
isnt that why not the whole tape is released?
reminds me about the story about that cop in the oj trial (mark fuhrman wasnt it?) who let a (probably) guilty guy walk because he "contaminated" evidence, oh and because he was a racist who enjoyed beating up people of colour.......cops should behave better than normal citizens, but i think in many american police departments respectable behaviour is discouraged.
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Wow...you obvioulsy have alot of well known facts about America and its police force....
yes evidence would be inadmissble if it is obtained wrong....and yes that cop made a mistake, but he is human....he can do that...he is no longer a cop because he was a racist...i am sure you have the perfect police force where you are....
slawcop` said:
Ok…are you really that naïve? It is obvious that you are that uninformed about this case and obviously about what it takes to be a police officer. I don’t jump to any conclusions…I take fact and reasonable prudent means when investigating. I don’t “fill” anything in based off of hunch…..Hunches don’t solve crime..nor have they ever….facts and evidence charge a person with a crime……Probable Cause…charges someone, reasonable suspicion to stop someone, proof beyond a reasonable doubt to convict someone…..no where in there is there anything about hunches….I don’t convict anyone…judges and jury do…..I just present them with the facts of the case not hunches or hearsay, which you obviously listen to. If your going to make a judgment at least make an educated, sound judgment and don’t quote CNN.
You don’t know these cops are ridiculous. They might have made mistakes, but you quoting what CNN is saying it pretty uninformed on your part since you aren’t there. For you information and to answer your question..i have been accused and under suspicion for a crime before and yes I have and would answer questions. I wouldn’t get a lawyer because I have nothing to hide….I am not some unethical, untrustworthy, human being….I am a man who can and will admit when he messes up…See what is wrong with this world today is that everyone wants to blame everyone else for their problems instead of taking responsibility. Us as men are the main culprits…I am a MAN….I don’t need a lawyer nor are you offered one until you are charged….This is the way it works for all….What I really love about your statement is this, “this is because as a police officer you know that they try to use your words against you and confuse you into a confession....or talk you into it.” OMG….and I really hate using that…try to use your words against you…and confuse you into a confession or talk you into it…are you kidding me….that has to be a joke right…I am not even going to dignify that with a response. Grow up man, stop watching cop drama movies and listen to the news and educate yourself about the facts of not only the criminal justice system, but life in general.
“Again it's beside the point whether or not he did it, it's the low these cops sank too to get what they wanted. Not surprising with an adult, but with a child? Puh-lease.” I love this one too, it is beside the point….yeah two lives are lost and that is the point…remember that…if the cops screwed up then they screwed up…they “we” are human cut us some slack. If you think you can do it….come on with it.
I am very aware of what the side of a car says. I can even tell you what my oath is…so I don’t need some uninformed person telling me what my job is especially when you don’t know…”
Well I am glad you dated a CSI…that means absolutely nothing….and it completely irrelevant. The entire point in my response is that you don’t know anything about the case, but yet you are quick to call it….know the facts before you put your name as a “MAN” behind what your saying…
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Naive? Hardly. Uninformed on this case? I will concede to that....either way it is my opinion and evidently quite a few lawyers and former prosecutors agree. Just google this case and see.
Now on to your other points. If your a detective and were under suspicion of something as serious as murder and you would answer all questions with out a lawyer then your the one who is naive. I have served on a jury, and have a friend who is a public defender. I've seen first hand how the justice system works. Also my friend has told me plenty about how cops and detectives operate. Lets get one thing straight, I think those tactics are fair when it is two adults. If your stupid enough to admit to something then that is your fault and I applaud the cop who can get his man just using his guile....however this was a child and not an adult.
As an adult it should be easy to see that a detective who is interrogating me is tricking me, and I also know that "anything I say will be used AGAINST ME". It doesn't say in the Miranda rights anything can be used for me it says anything can be used against me. However your average child can't comprehend this. You know that and I know that. Guilty or not guilty has no bearing on this. It's the fact that these cops were willing to curt the legal system to prosecute a child.
Come on, I am not an idiot, your telling me that you have never just suspected someone based on circumstantial evidence? Then got that person to confess only using the circumstantial evidence? If not, your not doing job good enough. Cases are won and lost all the time on circumstantial evidence. This is evidence that is merely suspicion and not based on hard evidence.
I think the problem here is twofold:
First, people who are not Cops seem almost invariably to fall for the media hype that Cops aren't "real people" but some kind of group of brainwashed individuals who only care about getting a tick mark on their record for solving cases. This is simply NOT TRUE. Cops don't get paid extra for solving cases. They don't get rewards, awards, or any "kudos" other than maybe a slap on the back or a "good job" from their supervisors. They are people who hate the thought of a child victim or a child committing a crime as much as any other reasonable person in society. It is expounded upon over and over again in a Cop's career that it is as more important to make sure innocent persons don't go to jail than it is to catch a crook. It is simply unbelievable how many criminals I have seen that were not charged with the crime because there was an enormous amount of circumstantial evidence... But, maybe, not quite enough for a proof beyond a reasonable doubt.
Second, the media rarely shows the whole video of any Police involved incident because they want RATINGS and MONEY. I can't recall how many videos I have watched in training in which 48 hrs or a similar show chopped up an in car video and showed only the seemingly negative sections of the video just to create a national uproar about an incident. Then Cops get to watch the video years later (after the court case is over) with the edited parts included. Then you see the cop ask the suspect out of the vehicle six-eight times before the fight is on.
In my experience most Cops care the MOST about children. Children tend to be the most innocent and when they are victimized they are true victims in every sense of the word without any way remove themselves from the situation or defend themselves. Many Detectives REFUSE to work child crimes because they don't think they can personally/mentally handle seeing the abuse that occurs.
Allegations that some Cops would attempt to FRAME and 8 year old child both makes me sick at my stomach and makes me realize just how much people are willing to see another as an ogre rather than look for a reasonable/rational reason for the conduct.
True story : I picked up a load of colored painted lumber in Atlanta and dropped it off in Lancaster, pa. An Amish family that made high end custom play sets for rich folks and wow the stuff the could build seemed like some from a Harry Potter movie. We started talking about technology and they didn't desire to have a cellphone or any phone for that matter. They seemed so much at peace with just the basics in life. Clearly they live in a area with malls but still appreciated life in a simple form. Now its 2011 and most folks can't go a day without cellphone use, and have a piss fit if they cell is about to die while at the mall. We stand in long lines waiting for the new it phone then rush home to make an unboxing video as others tune to watch us in awe to remove the plastic off a device. We call up the carriers begging for an update to get a new device.. log in to sites like this and complain about the device and while asking developers to stop spending time with your family and hurry up on that root so i can do a whole bunch of nothing with my phone. I'm not saying cellphones are bad, if your wife ran out to pick up pizza and got a flat you definitely want her to have one in that situation. I'm talking bout being apart of the gimmick crowd...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
geeksquadryder said:
True story : I picked up a load of colored painted lumber in Atlanta and dropped it off in Lancaster, pa. An Amish family that made high end custom play sets for rich folks and wow the stuff the could build seemed like some from a Harry Potter movie. We started talking about technology and they didn't desire to have a cellphone or any phone for that matter. They seemed so much at peace with just the basics in life. Clearly they live in a area with malls but still appreciated life in a simple form. Now its 2011 and most folks can't go a day without cellphone use, and have a piss fit if they cell is about to die while at the mall. We stand in long lines waiting for the new it phone then rush home to make an unboxing video as others tune to watch us in awe to remove the plastic off a device. We call up the carriers begging for an update to get a new device.. log in to sites like this and complain about the device and while asking developers to stop spending time with your family and hurry up on that root so i can do a whole bunch of nothing with my phone. I'm not saying cellphones are bad, if your wife ran out to pick up pizza and got a flat you definitely want her to have one in that situation. I'm talking bout being apart of the gimmick crowd...
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
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I'm happy to be there. My firm belief is that technology will produce the paradise we all want. Unlike some conservative types, I don't adhere to the rule of suffering in life all the time. They think the only good person is one who is 24/7/365 suffering and doing without. We make technology to overcome the environment, not to continue to suffer in it. The only reason there is any form of suffering in the world is because technology hasn't developed to the point of addressing all of the needs. As long as a person holds onto their ethical and moral integrity, suffering is needless.
Don't like this idea. Some people always say that these are just devices that call and text, everything else is excess and we don't need it in our daily lives. Like we should be grateful we have them. But this is called progress. At one time, we didn't have cars or color tv or this latest gadget. And we have adjusted our lives accordingly so that they are essentials in day to day living. It's foolish to just live in the past or sit still, the world moves at a fast pace. If we didn't feel a need for more, innovation would just stop. They don't even call cell phones "cell phones" anymore, they call them mobiles because that's what they are. Mobile devices
Yes, I agree with you geeksquadryder. As we are forgetting what a real life is? We need mobiles for doing our daily work but some people getting mobiles for not satisfying must needs but for fun. We know how much impact these mobiles can have in our life in helping and ruining. So, its upto the head of the home to teach or drive his/her home to be happy with/without things of needed.
Our biggest mistake was coming down from the trees in the first place. Everything since then is just compounded error. Too late to go back now!
aFo3262 said:
Don't like this idea. Some people always say that these are just devices that call and text, everything else is excess and we don't need it in our daily lives. Like we should be grateful we have them. But this is called progress. At one time, we didn't have cars or color tv or this latest gadget. And we have adjusted our lives accordingly so that they are essentials in day to day living. It's foolish to just live in the past or sit still, the world moves at a fast pace. If we didn't feel a need for more, innovation would just stop. They don't even call cell phones "cell phones" anymore, they call them mobiles because that's what they are. Mobile devices
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+1
people are constantly saying how technology has made ungrateful and ruined lives. I don't see how wanting the most out of your phone can ruin your life. This is called evolution/progress. I'm glad we have cell phones and I'm glad technology is getting better and I hope one day I won't have to lift a finger to do many of the tedious tasks I do on a day to day basis.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App
If we just stick to "need" when we live life, we'd be a very poor society. Much of the art and technology we have today have made it so far for want of innovation and pleasure. And yes, also for pure fun.
It's not excessive, it's creative, new, interesting and in this way, important. Especially since we came down from the trees...
DirkGently1 said:
Our biggest mistake was coming down from the trees in the first place. Everything since then is just compounded error. Too late to go back now!
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Yup. Now we are describing quantum physics with languages initially designed to tell the other monkey where the fruit was.
yeah, and let's just revert back to farming for every one right...
i'll use whatever tech i want, you can go be a luddite.
ballasdontcry said:
yeah, and let's just revert back to farming for every one right...
i'll use whatever tech i want, you can go be a luddite.
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Or use two tin cans and a string...
(somebody's sig, that is)
sakai4eva said:
Or use two tin cans and a string...
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That would be 1970's tech to the Amish.
By the way, anyone know what an Amish guy's arm up a horse's butt is? A mechanic.
sakai4eva said:
Yup. Now we are describing quantum physics with languages initially designed to tell the other monkey where the fruit was.
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Mind = blown! Genius post
I do often think the Amish and others of that ilk have the right idea. It may be luddism but as a society i bet they are generally happier than the rest of the world at large.
DirkGently1 said:
Mind = blown! Genius post
I do often think the Amish and others of that ilk have the right idea. It may be luddism but as a society i bet they are generally happier than the rest of the world at large.
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Sorry to tell you but technology is important. I always remember the economics of technology, where tech has the potential of drastically changing supply, demand or both.
It increases the quality of life, and frees us to do things that are more important, like putting funny captions on pictures of cats instead of adding up a few thousand lines of labour costs.
You read HHGTTG, there was one book where people used leaves as currency...
p/s: I stole that initial quote from Pratchett.
sakai4eva said:
Sorry to tell you but technology is important. I always remember the economics of technology, where tech has the potential of drastically changing supply, demand or both.
It increases the quality of life, and frees us to do things that are more important, like putting funny captions on pictures of cats instead of adding up a few thousand lines of labour costs.
You read HHGTTG, there was one book where people used leaves as currency...
p/s: I stole that initial quote from Pratchett.
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As i said earlier, it's too late to go back now. I disagree that technology improves lives though. More people die because of technology than are saved by it. You have to remember that as a race we have stopped evolving; instead our tools are evolving. Rather than changing to adapt to our environment we are trying to change our environment to adapt to us. This is not a good thing.
DirkGently1 said:
As i said earlier, it's too late to go back now. I disagree that technology improves lives though. More people die because of technology than are saved by it. You have to remember that as a race we have stopped evolving; instead our tools are evolving. Rather than changing to adapt to our environment we are trying to change our environment to adapt to us. This is not a good thing.
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Wow, I could berate you over that. But I won't. The reason I want to is because THAT is a main part of the conservative/religious ideal. It's ignorant because they believe they...embodied in their gray matter...have all understanding and knowledge of the universe and existence. Because of this, they push hardship and suffering on society as something good for us.
These pea-brained idiots never consider they do not know everything. They have a thought, and because *they* have that thought, it has to be correct and righteous. So therefor they proceed to prevent society from having peace and they thwart all technological progress as much they can and call it evil. They are the kind that believes only someone who is constantly suffering is a better person. And they do that to people.
They see one aspect of something and conclude that it leads to what they believe it should.
You'll have to pardon my intensity because here in America, that is exactly what happened to my life. My life was wiped out as though it was nothing to me by ideological/religious/conservative zealots. With an attitude of, "You'll thank me when you recover". The only problem is they had no clue how destructive their ideology was to me and it obliterated my life.
I'm a godless Atheist but this is not a religious discussion! I love technology but i admit that the cost far outweighs the benefits. The global gene pool is getting weaker by the day while we rape the planet that we rely on to survive.
Advancement is inevitable but so is entropy. Equilibrium will be returned but i guarantee it won't be in a way that's favourable to human life.
DirkGently1 said:
I'm a godless Atheist but this is not a religious discussion! I love technology but i admit that the cost far outweighs the benefits. The global gene pool is getting weaker by the day while we rape the planet that we rely on to survive.
Advancement is inevitable but so is entropy. Equilibrium will be returned but i guarantee it won't be in a way that's favourable to human life.
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Amen, I mean, I agree to that (zing!).
Truth is, I believe that technology helped me a lot. I mean, Microsoft Excel is a million times better than an A3 piece of paper and a calculator.
But certain techs makes us dumber, and not smarter. We don't use it to expand ourselves and our capabilities, but to limit ourselves and reduce innovation and creativity.
Case in point; iPhone.
**sniff sniff** smells like..... religious overtones.... wafting through the air....
(What I'm doing here.......... Your seing it??)
Marty, I'm looking in your direction......
conantroutman said:
**sniff sniff** smells like..... religious overtones.... wafting through the air....
(What I'm doing here.......... Your seing it??)
Marty, I'm looking in your direction......
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Lol. Would be like missing John Cleese goose stepping through dining room...
Religion is OK just don't mention the war!!!
Sent from my GT-P1000
nobleskill said:
Lol. Would be like missing John Cleese goose stepping through dining room...
Religion is OK just don't mention the war!!!
Sent from my GT-P1000
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What war? The one where they killed everyone for staying in some place long ago, or the one where they kill everyone else for being someone else?
Wait, I got that mixed up, didn't I, it was the one where they killed people for being different, right?
p/s: religion talk is never ok, especially when it gets slightly out of hand. Note the understatement
Just wanted to make sure everyone here is up to date on flash mob robberies, they are halarious, if you dont know about them yet check out you-tube and watch a few videos.
Basicaly the idea of a flash mob has turned from random bits of dance and entertainment to 50-100 people simotaniusley robbing/looting random corner stores and gas stations. I do not condone these acts (while I do think the videos are entertaining) and thought others may like to share opinions on this, so what do you guys think? I say its not long before a store owner pulls a weapon on these fools and we see mass casualties in a 7-11, how else are they gonna defend themselves against such a thing?
Is this happening in other counties or is this more of a U.S. based thing as of yet?
Please share which vidoes you find the most entertaining!!!!
(video for those unfamiliar)
I don't find anything remotely funny about small business owners being robbed by gangs of morons who deserve nothing more than being put against a wall and shot, one after the other, in the knee-caps.
I hope somebody does exactly that. On camera. Perhaps THEN i will laugh.
DirkGently said:
I don't find anything remotely funny about small business owners being robbed by gangs of morons who deserve nothing more than being put against a wall and shot, one after the other, in the knee-caps.
I hope somebody does exactly that. On camera. Perhaps THEN i will laugh.
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Sorry I still see the entertainment value in these videos (big fan of worlds dumbest lol). However I believe we are on the same page, that the next progression is going to be a store owner shooting at these groups of wild teens looting there store, untill than whats stopping them? The thought process must be "they cant catch all of us" I guess, but im not sure why nobodys wearing masks, idiots must not understand that there are cameras almost everywhere. Imagine if you were a cop and were first on scene to one of these calls best bet might be to baragade your cruiser against the door and lock them all in untill backup arrives, however that locks the loanly clerk and any possible legit patrons inside as posible hostages. Could you imagine going in to pay for gas or buy some smokes and 50+ kids run in and start looting the place!
DirkGently said:
I don't find anything remotely funny about small business owners being robbed by gangs of morons
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^^ This
Sent from my GT-I9100 using xda premium
Yeah. Great, some store owner shoots one and the rest beat him to death...
That's entertainment alright..........
As someone who very regularly has to deal with the kind of moron who thinks its acceptable to steal from and threaten those who work in customer service I do not find this remotely funny.
I see, all too often just how badly the people that do these jobs can be affected by even a minor incident and something such as this could have serious repercussions on the life of a completely innocent person who is not insured against any loss or injury and will receive nothing in compensation should they find themselves unable to work afterwards.
By simply reposting these videos you are glorifying these acts and only inciting more of this kind of action by the type of mindless cretins who make life difficult for those of us who work hard to earn a living.
conantroutman said:
By simply reposting these videos you are glorifying these acts and only inciting more of this kind of action by the type of mindless cretins who make life difficult for those of us who work hard to earn a living.
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Meh... understood. I did actually find myslef wondering why such videos remain on youtube, thinking along the same lines that actually seeing such a video would only insight further flash mob robberies sparking the mind of wasted youth. However that is enough self reflection into myself and will be reserved for another day when I feel more like looking back onto things I may or may not have done, that may or may not have been the "best choices"
I started this thread in thoughts of conversation and nothing more, please do not mistake this as approval to such acts
Yeah point taken, its probably not fair to blame you personally so sorry about that.
Just annoys me that's all
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
conantroutman said:
Yeah point taken, its probably not fair to blame you personally so sorry about that.
Just annoys me that's all
Sent From My Fingers To Your Face.....
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No worries
It's OK, you did call them fools after all, and you do raise the point that it won't be long before it turns really ugly, i.e, loss of life ugly. Had anybody thought you were glorifying the acts the thread would be closed by now!
As CTM said, these things can only go south. The robbers come with knives, so owners buy guns and before long the robbers have guns. It's exactly what's happened in the USA, and as much as the gun advocates, i.e NRA members, defend their position.. it's completely illogical. The argument is cyclical. You defend your home with a BB Bat, robbers bring knives. You buy a knife, robbers bring guns. You buy a gun and before long your kid has accidentally shot himself to death.
The arguments go back and forth while the only clear and logical answer is to smelt every single fkin gun in existence. Fortunately it's the one thing the UK government here at home has gotten right.
The only guns should belong to the Army and Specialist Police forces. Beyond that, they shouldn't even be made. The only reason these cocky little ****es think they can get away with robbing innocent people is because most people are too sensible to start an arms race where nobody wins. And most people are too decent to shoot somebody, even when they themselves are being robbed.
Personally, i have no such reservations. I would kill each and every one of the bastards given the chance. Which is exactly why we have gun control here!
^^^lol, a bb bat excellent makeshift weapon
Sent from my SilverBullet 'HTCDesireZ running CM7'
deliriousDroid said:
^^^lol, a bb bat excellent makeshift weapon
Sent from my SilverBullet 'HTCDesireZ running CM7'
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I would swing like Babe Ruth if i thought a direct hit would save the life of someone i loved!
Tony Martin was jailed because we don't have the 'Castle doctrine' in this country. The biggest mistake he made wasn't to open fire on the assholes who tried to rob him. It was missing, and then not burying the bodies that messed up his life!
Like i said, it's a good thing that the law doesn't agree with me!
DirkGently said:
I would swing like Babe Ruth if i thought a direct hit would save the life of someone i loved!
Tony Martin was jailed because we don't have the 'Castle doctrine' in this country. The biggest mistake he made wasn't to open fire on the assholes who tried to rob him. It was missing, and then not burying the bodies that messed up his life!
Like i said, it's a good thing that the law doesn't agree with me!
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And what is this 'Castle doctrine' ?
Tomdg07 said:
And what is this 'Castle doctrine' ?
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It's the law that you have in the US that say's you have the right to protect yourself in your own home, against those that would trespass or do harm against you on your property.
Somebody breaks into your home and you shoot them? Their fault!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
Sadly even this can lead to f**k ups of epic proportions. Take for instance new US laws that allow for entry to a property by law enforcement without the need for a warrant, or for announcing "Police..come out with your hands up..."
Tragically, a recent case highlighted the flaws in this. Police went to an ex-Marines house, on false evidence that he was supplying drugs. Rather than knock on the door they tried to break it down. He thought that his home was being invaded, so to protect his family to picked up his rifle and opened fire on the 'intruders'. He was shot forty times.
What would you have done?
If neither he, or the police were packing guns, everyone would have lived!
DirkGently said:
It's the law that you have in the US that say's you have the right to protect yourself in your own home, against those that would trespass or do harm against you on your property.
Somebody breaks into your home and you shoot them? Their fault!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine
Sadly even this can lead to f**k ups of epic proportions. Take for instance new US laws that allow for entry to a property by law enforcement without the need for a warrant, or for announcing "Police..come out with your hands up..."
Tragically, a recent case highlighted the flaws in this. Police went to an ex-Marines house, on false evidence that he was supplying drugs. Rather than knock on the door they tried to break it down. He thought that his home was being invaded, so to protect his family to picked up his rifle and opened fire on the 'intruders'. He was shot forty times.
What would you have done?
If neither he, or the police were packing guns, everyone would have lived!
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That's what I thought you were referring to, and yes it is an epic fail, no matter how "justified" you are I doubt it's ever worth it. I have a friend who shot and killed an intruder, no charges ever filled however I know he well never be the same. Partially in a good way as his life wasn't always on the up and up and has since in ways changed for the better for both him and his family, but we'll never be the same.
Sent from my SGH-I997 using xda premium
These videos and the acts portrayed within are just terrible. I for one believe we need more small "mom and pop" stores, not less. Acts like these can very well cause someone innocent to be hurt (the morons doing these things NEED to be hurt....but I digress....) and drive these small stores out of business. Terrible, just terrible.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
It makes me sad to see this kind of stuff happen in the states... I can barely believe it!
Sent from my Nexus One using xda premium
1) flash mobbers deserve whatever a store owner it's willing to give out.
2) I stand firmly in support of castle doctrine ... come into my house when
I'm not expecting you, and we'll see how it works.
My 2¢,
G
Sent from my Viper-powered Evo 3D via Tapatalk
http://rt.com/news/apple-patent-transmission-block-408/
It's super lame they are going to do this.
the company says the affected sites are to be mostly cinemas, theaters, concert grounds and similar locations
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Who the hell records movies on their phones? Now if I see something at a theater I want a picture of I cant have it just because my phone will think I might be in a movie viewing area? What about all the theaters in malls? No taking pictures in malls because there is a movie theater?!
And concert grounds? They really think they have the right to take our devices capabilities away from us during festivals? Hell I take more pics at festivals than I do any other time!! This pisses me off really bad, its the first step towards the government having total control over all our devices and when we can do what with them. I really thought about putting the swear filter to the test for this post. I am disappoint.
Can't see this going down with the general public....seriously bad move by Apple if it goes ahead....which is good news for android!
slaphead20 said:
which is good news for android!
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I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
WiredPirate said:
I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
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But if Apple has a patent on it?!
WiredPirate said:
I dont see it that way, I think if this goes over it will eventually be required in new phones. But I hope I'm wrong!
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Even if it winds up required (which it wont) there's only one contender with custom Roms that can remove it. I can't seem to remember who though
slaphead20 said:
But if Apple has a patent on it?!
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lol, that would be best for everybody.. Unless it becomes required and manufacturers have to pay Apple to use it by law.
WiredPirate said:
lol, that would be best for everybody.. Unless it becomes required and manufacturers have to pay Apple to use it by law.
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well if you read the article Apple has indeed patented it, and Samsung aren't going to copy that one if they even the slightest bit of common sense
I just read the article and it's coming across as all kinds of morally disgusting. Imagine police brutality that nobody can record on their phones? Or if nobody could record the pepper spray cop walking around paper spraying students? I am not much for conspiracies but this is setting all kinds of bells off.
063_XOBX said:
I just read the article and it's coming across as all kinds of morally disgusting. Imagine police brutality that nobody can record on their phones? Or if nobody could record the pepper spray cop walking around paper spraying students? I am not much for conspiracies but this is setting all kinds of bells off.
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Several states do not want you recording the police, I think some have passed laws against it already.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
WiredPirate said:
Several states do not want you recording the police, I think some have passed laws against it already.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using xda premium
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Illegal or not if I felt my rights were being violated, I would do anything in my power to record what transpired. If a company worked with police to prevent me from doing that then they obviously don't want my money.
063_XOBX said:
Illegal or not if I felt my rights were being violated, I would do anything in my power to record what transpired.
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I agree, and I would too. But the government holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force, so your going to get your ass whooped or be locked up for taking that picture. Plus the police will just confiscate your device, so better have it uploading in the background or you will never be able to prove it. And even if you do have the pics they will not be usable in court if the law says you cant take the pics.
Craziness. Also one little tweak for hackers to get their hands on and wreak havoc on iOS users. If it's on the phone it's in the code and in theory anyone with the right knowledge could take advantage of it.
MissionImprobable said:
Craziness. Also one little tweak for hackers to get their hands on and wreak havoc on iOS users. If it's on the phone it's in the code and in theory anyone with the right knowledge could take advantage of it.
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I hadn't even thought about that. Hahaha, sucks for them.
WiredPirate said:
I agree, and I would too. But the government holds a legal monopoly on the use of physical force, so your going to get your ass whooped or be locked up for taking that picture. Plus the police will just confiscate your device, so better have it uploading in the background or you will never be able to prove it. And even if you do have the pics they will not be usable in court if the law says you cant take the pics.
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It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
063_XOBX said:
It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
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Agreed, I hope it doesn't come to that though.
This just in, this just in: Apple sucks! Back to you, Jan.
063_XOBX said:
It doesn't matter if they're applicable in court. Groups like the ACLU would have my back on it and I would spare no expense (even beyond support from any groups/organizations that supported me) in making it into a PR nightmare for everyone involved. Just look at the Rodney King trial. He was involved in a high speed chase while driving with a blood alcohol around .19 and wound up being front and center in one of the biggest civil rights cases of the decade. Public perception has a lot more sway over how things are handled than facts.
I just want to clarify that I'm not belittling what Mr.King had to go through, just pointing out that illegal or not, the Police need to be accountable for their actions.
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Click to collapse
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
got556 said:
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
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Click to collapse
:good:
got556 said:
And it's okay if you did belittle him. The dude was a piece of crap through and through. It was just the excuse LA needed so the animals could come out and riot, rape, pillage, and murder. You're very right about public perception. The media in all its glory never lets a crisis go to waste. Most police "brutality" videos never show the whole scene/situation from stop to finish. I also wager to say that police brutality occurs at a much smaller rate than what the public "perceives" to take place. Not to mention look at the statistics of how many law enforcement officers exist in the U.S. then compare that to the actual, honest to goodness, police brutality incidents and I bet it's less than 0.5%.
Are there piece of **** cops out there? Yes. But I don't see anyone firing politicians these days for royally ****ing up your life. I don't see any media people losing their job for blatantly swaying public perception and falsifying the news and often times just short of inciting riots.
But hey I'm just a little guy in the DOJ who calls it like he sees it and may have wrote a few thesis papers on police corruption and brutality.
I have no problem with being filmed while on the job. My problem is where you take a snippet of an escalated situation to portray me as going beyond my duties as a law enforcement officer and painting me as a bad guy. More so, law enforcement deals with the worst of the worst on a daily basis. We try to do our jobs to the extent that the law allows while also trying to keep the public happy. We are not here to serve you. (IMHO), nor protect you. Exercise your 2nd amendment right for that. We are here to separate the good from evil before you have to.
Each day I'm tasked with waiting for someone to push my adrenaline on overload, knowing today, could be the day, I go meet my maker. I also have to remember that I represent the agency I work for, and public eyes are always watching. I also remember that no matter how much an individual tries to do harm to me verbally or physically I must act in a manner accordingly to how I've been trained and know when to never go above the needed use of force.
While you may sit there and belittle me, I have to push that aside when you call me to come help, assist, save you from whatever danger came your way. In return I ask that you, from one human being to another, always remember that I too make mistakes. That at any point in time I could be sued, my family could be in danger, or any of us could be killed, all because I had a SPLIT SECOND to make a decision on how to react to a highly stressful and downright pants ****ting situation, because you, John Q Public, along with the law said I must follow my duties of removing bad guy A from the streets.
So I ask you, the next time you see a "police brutality" video streaming all over the web or media, please be sure you have all the facts before you cast your first stone. Put yourself in that officer's shoes from start to finish.
Also you as a citizen, it is you duty to know your rights, as a citizen. Use them if you find an over-zealous "authoritative" figure encroaching them. Be polite, be courteous, and be right. You ask the same of us.
So here's some facts. Law enforcement officers have the highest divorce rates out of any profession in the nation. We also have the highest suicide rates. The average life expectancy of a law enforcement officer is 57 years of age. Coincidentally that is also the maximum age allowed before mandatory retirement in the DOJ. Now ask yourself.....what do these tidbits tell you?
ETA: And some tidbits about me. I think the war on drugs is a waste of time and money. I think Fast & Furious goes all the way to the top of the administration and they should all be in prison. I'm neither democrat nor republican. I do not support socialism. I fully support the 2nd amendment and believe every citizen has a natural born right to carry a weapon. I do not think all prison inmates are guilty. I do think Washington DC needs a reset button. I support the military and the war on terror. I do think Iraq was somewhat of a mistake. I do think the current police state has gone too militarized and should be tamed. I like to think we as a nation can do anything we want, but realize that more and more this becomes a nation of sheep or people that don't concern themselves with the things they should. I think reality TV has ruined 51% of the current population.
And as much as I love technology and Android, I think smartphones have set people's social skills back decades, if not centuries.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would never make an unfounded claim about the Police, especially not one about Police brutality. I believe that like all people (they're only human) they are mostly good. However if for even a second I believe that my rights are being encroached upon I will not hesitate to use any resource I can, media included, to bring it to light. Most "controversies" are a bunch of hype and not having all the facts, but if even 1/10th of a percent are real they need to be brought to light. Any time a person is given elevated authority over another there needs to be some kind of check to keep them in line. The media isn't perfect, but it's the closest thing we have to a semblance of something that "watches those who watch over us".