Database Develop

State of the Forum/Newbies

Okay, this post is really intended as a comment and I am not going to pretend I have THE answer but I do have some suggestions to spark discussion.
Based on a lot of the recent comments and back and forth about newbies/tech support I think that the forum is trending the same way I have seen MANY other forums go. What happens is simple; a group of first adopters, who are by default, technically capable, get together on a forum and start to fill in the gaps in tech support, especially when it comes to 'modded' soft or hardwre. They spend a while helping each other out and a comfort level develops. Members know where to go, and when to ask questions.
Then what happens is that the hardware becomes much more popular. All of a sudden your average Joe can walk out a Cingular store with a 8125 for a couple hundred bucks. These folks are NOT early adopters. They are not necessarily tech savvy. They are the people that are most prone to 'keyboard to chair interface errors'. Since the early members did such a good job raising the profile of the forum it starts to come up every time someone does a Google search. and they all end up over their heads.
So then the folks that have been around for a while start to get frustrated. Why should they provide tech support? Why can't these newbies read? Why should they even try to help if they get barraged by stupid questions?
Well I think that takes us to where we are now, so the question is what do we do now? In my experience the only solution that I have seen is to have people equally dedicated to wiki and sticky writing as they are to writing ROMs and programs. The truth is that if you release something you WILL become tech support and a large part of tech support is writing documentation and then explaining it to others.
I have intended this post as something helpful and to spark discussion, not as a criticism of anyone in particular or any particular group. Hopefully it will be taken as such

I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V

As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?

d0ug said:
As a new user on this forum i have noticed inconsitant information about G3 vs G4 devices and ROM upgrading. I've seen questions asked by people about G4 devices that go unanswered.
I think the problem with searching on this forum and many others. They do not allow you to search for 3 or fewer letter acronyms such as IPL, SPL, CID. There is no way to search for answers about these things. If there is a setting on the forum that can be changed to allow searching for these terms, then please fix it.
I think when people start posting info about how they did something they need to specify what hardware they are using G3/G4. Thankfully i havent done anything as far as modding my device, but i had seen posts where someone most likely with a G3 device says they figured out how to do this or that, Then someone with a G4 comes along and tried it, not knowing it was done on a G3 and ended up screwing up their device. We need to clearly specify what hardware we are doing mods on.
I still have no clear answer about CID unlocking a G4. I know there is no free utility to do it. Ive seen posts that say the imei-check site can CID unlock. Then i saw a post this morning that imei-check is only a SIM unlock. Can people please provide clear info?
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I agree with you d0ug! It is rather confusing to navigate and find your way. Especially when you are a n00b, such as myself. I have been trying to mod my phone for 3 days now. I have tried many ways of unlocking my G3, but none of them have worked. I have listened to 3 different people tell me their "way" of unlocking the phone, and all 3 attempts failed in the end. I get flamed for not reading posts or searching, when i did, just nothing relevant popped up! This is not a whine fest, just saying that some people dont have phones that were built on a Wednesday, like mine that was probably built on a Monday and has issues!
Either way, i called Cingular and they are shipping me a brand new 8125 to test things out on!
Canon

Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents

vijay555 said:
I agree. I get the feeling that since the relaunch, for one reason or another, there appears to be a lot more"Why don't my apps close when I press X?" and "How dat I swtich this thing 0ff!!!!!!!" type posts.
I think that it's beholden on more experienced users to try to share their experience as they see fit, but it's absolutely essential that newbs and less experienced users use the search button and wiki.
I've been sponsoring a post in the moderators' forum regarding having a specific section for Tutorials etc, eg for the excellent posts that Menneisyys puts together. The wiki may not be the best place for them (due to the risk of negative edits), although it's certainly better then people never looking at them at all...
But as you say, it's pretty much predicted by psychohistory that all fora of dedicated people will eventually turn into a tech support. I don't mind, but less experienced must use the resources already online - quid pro quo.
V
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Vijay, very happy to see that the mods are looking at this. I agree that Wiki's have their limitations especially given the validity of some of the comments about conflicting advice.
The search function definitely does have its limits as well, and people are less likely to go through searches that produce a 100 threads with 5 pages each.
I for one would feel a lot better about telling someone harshly to stop answering questions if I knew that I could also direct them to a single place for answers.

I really love this forum and it has helped me so much. I don't post much except to say "thank you" from time to time to the people who have made some program that has been helpful to me. And although I have been coming to this board every day for over a year I still don't know half as much as the majority of people here.
Some solutions to this problem are:
1) get frustrated and write a mean message to the noob
2) take a minute and just give the link to the page where the answer is
3) make it easier on this forum to find things

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)

vseehua said:
That could be nice... part of the things that had contributed to the bad search results are the tons of new threads asking the very same questions over and over and over again... is there anyway to disable these threads from showing up in the search results? Maybe it's time for us to out up another sticky thread specifically talking abóut G4 devices =)
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I would like to see a thread dedicated to G4 devices, with verified correct information in it.
It isnt just people asking the same questions over and over making the search junk. Its the inability to even search for simple short 3 letter acronyms like CID, IPL, SPL, AKU. These are all things I have tried to search for and get 0 results. If I were able to search for these terms I could probably turn up a wealth of information on my own.

_Nomad_ said:
Haven't been a wizard user that long although I've been in the ppc scene in about 5 years and quite active in several forums. The most successful solution that I've seen to this problem (witch enevitably always comes up) is to not let new users post for at least 7 days and/or forcing them to read various informational topics before getting access to the actual forum.
This will of course not get everyone but has in my experience improved the situation considerably.
Ah well, that's just my two cents
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That would work me thinks!!!!!

Hi all,
I've been reading this forum for weeks now and still have not found enough answers to be secure enough and cid-unlock my G3 2.21 vario.
I HAVE indeed read most relevant threads, although navigating them can be somewhat confusing. However When I posted some -in my n00b opinion - valid questions I either got 1) no reply whatsoever 2) replies to read "the" threads....which wasn't really helpfull or I wouldn't have asked 3) contradicting advice .... like a 2.21 G3 Can be unlocked, or it Cannot be unlocked, you have to downgrade twice, you have to upgrade twice, you Can or Cannot flash a G4 rom to a G3 device so you won't have to downgrade and CID unlock your phone first, etc.
I believe that I am somewhat beyond the real n00b level right now but still I'd like information to be more consistent and easier to find, I've already tried to suggest making a stickied n00b FAQ or wiki for us where to find the basic answers in a easy and consistent manner so the sdame questions aren't asked over and over and ROM threads hijacked for support questions.
but that is just my cup of tea.
thanks for a good forum with vlauable info.
stefan.

Regular search
Personally, I find using google or yahoo, with site:xda-developers.com, works much better than the forum search. My personal pet peeve is the inability to use quotes to search for phrases. Quotes don't work.
A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out and ask them to submit a wiki for something they just learned. If we had a submission point for the wiki, perhaps those of us who recently learned new things would do a how-to write-up and submit it to the wiki.
Finally, there are a lot of repeat threads, many with false or useless information. These threads stand in the way of a searcher. I would be happier if the moderators deleted more bad threads. Alternatively, we could use democracy -- add a "vote to delete" button to every thread not posted by a moderator and if a high enough percentage vote to delete, the thread is gone. I'd suggest 20% as a threshold -- more than that and the thread goes away.

Have been reading all your comments and completely agree with you guys... I see you have specific problems on G3/G4 on Wizards, as someone suggested a separate subforum for G4 devices would be ideal for you, and also for Prophet I guess.
About the search functions I'm also using google to search as a fallback when I can't find specific things using vBulletin's integrated search function, there's a thread on the mod forum where we discussed how to improve it, but seems is not very active now... will try to push Flar to do something about that.
Regarding the wiki, I think everyone should be less afraid to edit, if you look at the "recent changes" you see always the same people is editing. Have a look at the Hermes or BlueAngel wiki pages, these are good examples on how info has to be organized on the wiki, it's easy to find everything on the front page and information is well divided. Formating may seem a bit complicated at the beginning, but you don't have to care too much if you just want to add content, sure someone more experienced with wiki syntax will edit and correct any bad formating mistakes.

I do 100% agree with you that the wiki itself doesn't cover half of what it should. Yet if you take the time to read through it, and the links, you should be quite familiar with your device...
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
So, unfortunatly this is going to continue unless you put constraints on the board... I'm sorry, but that's what's gonna happen.

Seems to me that since this was posted the situation has sorta escalated... Faria, Molski, risidoro and just now Dr P has announced their leave.
In this rate all that'll be left will be the newbies soon. Sad to witness

_Nomad_ said:
And oh yeah, sure, you can't search for keywords less than four characters, but that's not really an excuse... look at the thread containing the latest Faria ROM. Half... Half of what the thread contains is the same question over and over again... those ppl didn't even read the initial post of the thread... they found the download link, tried to install the ROM, got problem and went right to work, posting their (stupid) question all over again and again... The problem was never the limited search capabilities... It's always the ppl...
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It's also very human.
_Nomad_ said:
A board without limitations always get bloated with crap, whether it's unwanted commercial och just plain stupid posts...
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There just should be enough moderators. Now what happens when you write something stupid is you also get useless answers like "don't do that" which just makes everything even worse. There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
Two main things to handle this (just my opinion):
Re-designed forum structure
Moderators
(well, the structure should be designed in the first place so that it would be easy to extend it later...not an easy job)

prestonmcafee said:
...A major problem with "read the threads" is the 800+ entry length of some of them. It would be nice to try to harness the power of those of us newly figuring things out...
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I usually suggest to those asking questions to post the solution to their question in the first post. But I'm over at the Mio forums, and since we only have 4500 peps, the mods aren't overwhelmed. I can lock a thread, post the correct thread to post in, and a few days later, delete the thread. I spend 1/2 my time using the search function to consolidate questions into single threads. But like I said, that's not feasible here. I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason

mlehtola said:
There should be a "FAQ"-section, there should be a "how-to"-section etc...but there isn't. The forum structure is FAR TOO SIMPLE to handle the amount of messages.
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Ummm, have you ever taken the time to look at the Wiki?
This forum is being provided to us basically for free. (Except for voluntary donations.) I personally can't afford to donate $$$ to the community, or for that matter to individual developers, so I dedicate some time to post in the forums to share what I've learned. I have also donated time to updating the Wiki.
If the Wiki doesn't contain all you would like it to, just add it yourself! One brief tutorial could make a world of difference to a newbie, or even a more experienced user. It also helps to point out gaps in the general knowledge we have here in these forums.
If, for example, there isn't a sub-forum for the device you use, you don't have to wait for the moderators, etc. to create it. Just create a Wiki page, and get the ball rolling on your own!
Take the initiative! That's what these forums were founded on!
Just my opinion.
Now go have fun!

JKR said:
I suggest a PM sent to everyone the registers, that is kind of a quick start guide. I understand why the 3 letter limit, because people type words like "the" and "and". I'm not sure how powerful the forum software is, but it would be nice to remove the size limit, and omit such words as mentioned above, from the search.
Regards,
Jason
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First of all, you get much better, and more detailed search results by using a search-engine like Google. Their advanced search features do a fantastic job, and can be fine tuned to search only through a specific site. (i.e. http://forum.xdadevelopers.com )
Secondly, as opposed to a PM, possibly an email with a confirmation link after the introductory information.
Hope this helps....
Now go have fun!

I think it is more synonymous of the world today, do you read the manual when you buy a new stereo or mobile phone, or do you dig in saying 'nah i know how it works it'll be ok'. People just dont take the time to understand first, they think they know it all and then the proverbial hits the fan! As an experienced R&D firmware developer it doesn't matter how easy I make the interface you will always get those that stuff it up!
So not such an easy one to fix, you have given the masses a place to ask the ridiculous and the tools to stuff up easily, How do you fix that?
Riptos

Rom reviews

Hello all Chefs and Rom users, I wanted to know how would you like if someone started a thread or site where they do in depth reviews on roms,chefs,and apps for htc phones? Would you find this useful and would you be willing to post your roms on a site that does this? Would you be interested in paying for adverstisement? Would you like for a donation link to be placed in your review or section on the site? Rom users, how useful do you think this site will be? I am open to all comments and questions. Thank to all in advance.

I think that would be a great idea, especially for the people who arent sure which rom they want or what they want on a rom or the people that are new to this scene. Maybe the site could include a list of things that are included in the roms. Such as does it have the latest .net compact framwork and things like that. Also it could be broken down into which roms would be best for which versions of the rhodium. Like T-mobile, at&t, sprint, verizon. And there could be a rating system letting users rate the roms. Just a few ideas to throw at you.

Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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yeah i second this. The key thing about roms is that they differ in appeal for one person to the next. Most roms these days are nice and fast (certainly faster than stock) and so the additional factors may involve apps included, graphics and other features and although these are listed within the chefs thread as screenshots and lists, you only really know a rom is right for you once its in your hands and personally test-driven!
Agreed, it would be good to have an objective list of features of all current roms and comments of them in one place, however the info is already out there leaving the rest of the work up to the user!

ohyeahar said:
Someone tried one of these threads here. I don't think it was useful at all.
My suggestion to noobs is this. Rather than learn about flashing different ROMs, learn how to quickly and efficiently backup and restore your device. Once you got it all down to about 15-30minutes, you can flash every single ROM out there and see for yourself which is right for you.
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I agree... With a UC cable ROM, a PC registry editor (CeRegistry, MobileRegistryEditor) and maybe SDConfig Builder along with PIM Backup I have it automated down to about 10 minutes...

i like it
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea

antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
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I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.

Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc

geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
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Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads

Not a bad idea
antdawg702 said:
as i have been flashing roms since the release of the original htc touch and have owned and flashed, hacked, and optimized just about every smartphone that has came out in america and some that havent, i consider myself a veteran and even i like to sometimes see how people feel about certain roms before trying them, i might be looking for a rom that does a specific thing very well and sometimes would like to know those strengths by reading about them first. thats just me, i dont think it would be a bad idea
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I am in the same boat I flash roms all the time, and love this forum, It would be nice to have an alternate way to read about rom,chefs,apps,Htc phones,rumors.
Something that goes more in depth.

not a social networking site
geejayoh said:
Why have a thread, wasn't he talking about a site akin to having a profile, like some kind of social networking site where each chef is regitered and releases their ROMS there?
ROMS can be reviewed, i.e. comments , requests etc
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I am talking about a site,not really a social networking site, because that will just grow too huge and make it hard for some users to be able to get the info they are looking for. I am thinking more like a blog. Where you can search info and find different articles. There would be polls on roms. The rom may be reviewed with general info and people can leave comments. I just think it may be a way to narrow down this info for users to easily get to. Some are intimidated by huge sites. The site will have other info ,but will also lean more towards roms and chefs. The site would benefit rom users and chefs.

cant cover all roms
ohyeahar said:
I know what you mean. And I understand the intentions of everyone who starts one of these threads. But consider this:
-There are new ROM chefs popping up all the time.
-New releases of ROMs with multiple flavors are literally coming at a daily rate.
Who's going to keep track of all the chefs? Each chef may also release multiple ROMs. Who's going to keep track of all the ROM versions?
It's an impossible task, unless each chef voluntarily goes to a common thread to post about their own work. But frankly, I would rather the chef not waste their time doing that. I would rather them allocate their time to their ROM development.
Probably no one is going to argue that a review thread is a bad idea. It's a great idea in theory. But it just doesn't work in practice.
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The site would not cover all roms,but would try to cover major releases and maybe the roms of chefs who want to link there roms to the site.

Thank You
Thank You to all who participated in this poll. Anyone who have not participated yet can still participate. It seems most members would enjoy a site like this one. I have updated my signature with the latest roms I am running. Thank you all!

ohyeahar said:
Haha, this social networking site you're referring to exists. It's here at this forum! Each ROM thread is a profile. Each chef is registered here and the ROMs are released here. Users are free to review, comment, and make requests in the threads
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Reading from 40 to 400+ pages of a thread just to see what the rom is about isn't something I look forward to. I would like it if they were categorized. For example, search filters for all the roms that have sense 2.1 or all the roms that have 2.5, etc. Roms that are made specifically for a carrier would also be a nice filter. I also think a really good idea would be to make a program with the purpose of benchmarking a rom just to try and test the speed of how fast the rom really is. There are many more things that can be done. I think thewingster.com is a great example of this, but it can be taken to another level to make it much easier for users. There are many roms not posted on that site, but the popular ones are there.

I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.

MadBeef said:
I agree with some of the ideas here - sometimes it's just not feasible to wade through hundreds of pages ... For those who come here maybe once a week like me, this would be a good way of getting up to date quickly and maybe some of the n00b questions wouldn't happen as a result? (even I know how to get AT&T keyboard and my country doesn't have AT&T )
Maybe an extension of the current XDA wiki? And promote the wiki a bit more on the front page. The threads as they are in the forums would still serve the same basic purpose - feedback and debate etc.
The obvious question though is "who's gonna do it?" as the information would get outdated fast, and we can't expect the cooks to do it as they do enough already. And the people in the best position to do this (ie. the hardcore guys who come here every day) may not want to.
It's an interesting idea though.
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The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.

accent2k2 said:
The site would have to be setup where anyone can add there own review. It takes user input to grow a site.
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Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round

MadBeef said:
Yeah absolutely, but there would have to be at least some form of moderation / approval / cleanup process otherwise you will just get 500 comments that are "HAW DO I GET MY NOKIA TO DO TAHT" or "I BRICKED MY PHOEN COS I DIDNT READ" or "D/Ling NOW KAKAKA!!!!11" etc. (much like some of the threads here) And then a team has to put all this in place, keep the version numbers up-to-date, put screenshots up, etc. A news feed available via RSS would be great Remember that most cooks have at least 4 different ROMs available for each device at a time. (Manila 2.1, 2.5, Titanium, AT&T dialer, WM6.5, WM6.5.1-3 etc)
Right now there must be 20 - 30 different ROMs available just for the TP2. Someone with some level of trust would need to be in charge. To quote an old phrase, "Garbage In, Garbage Out" And it would always have to be up-to-date otherwise there is no point.
Don't get me wrong it would be good to see something like this, it's a great idea. Kinda like what would happen if there was a train wreck involving the wiki and the forum haha but I think you may be underestimating the amount of work it will take.
I've often thought it would be better to have multiple threads per ROM, one for reviews, one for bugs, one for general chat, etc. Maybe even a sub-forum for each cook or each ROM.
I dunno I never said I had the answers Just throwing ideas round
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Makes since thanks

?????Whats the Best/Most effective rom for my stock X1????

ROMS AND OPINIONS (if you care)

Everytime this type of question is mentioned and discussed is pointless and has no pertinent use of obtaining any real information as each ROM is cooked to different needs for different cooks. The only way to find out which ROM is best for you is to read each Cook's thread and all the posts of what people are talking about and to try each ROM for yourself. And if none of the ROMs are what you're looking for then the only true way to satisfy your needs is to stop being a customer and become a chef yourself and cook up the ROM the way you like it.
It doesn't take long to flash your phone and play with it for a bit. If you don't like it then flash it with a different ROM and try that out. The longest time you'll spend is most likely downloading the ROMs. So I suggest to start downloading all the ROMs you'd like to try and save the to your HD and the just start loading a ROM on to your phone until you find one that you like.
And PLEASE do not post bugs or problems with the ROMs until you've read all the posts in that ROMs thread as it's most likely been mentioned and stated how to correct the problem. i.e. SMS not working in some ROMs.
And the first page of each Cook's ROM threads state what they've done and usually post pictures of the ROMs so you have an idea of what you're tasting. So READ and enjoy!

Yet another one of these threads?!?

you should read the wiki and the stickies at the top of the forums...

hey, sorry i wasnt aware of how many times this type of questions were posted.
im more into applications.
But still, i meant
can someone just post some sort of quick overview of the roms and good effects.
something like a quicklist.
if i were the type that likes to flash roms then i wouldnt ask.

hi, i find of really use these kind of question, there is a lot of ROMs, and little information of their performance, by example, my problem is that i don't know if my phone is slow or the rom, wich uses less power...

yaboistarr said:
hey, sorry i wasnt aware of how many times this type of questions were posted.
im more into applications.
But still, i meant
can someone just post some sort of quick overview of the roms and good effects.
something like a quicklist.
if i were the type that likes to flash roms then i wouldnt ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hestlen said:
hi, i find of really use these kind of question, there is a lot of ROMs, and little information of their performance, by example, my problem is that i don't know if my phone is slow or the rom, wich uses less power...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's why I replied and said to go to a cook's ROM and read the entire thread of what other users have posted! Don't expect a free handout here. You have to read to learn.

yaboistarr said:
hey, sorry i wasnt aware of how many times this type of questions were posted.
im more into applications.
But still, i meant
can someone just post some sort of quick overview of the roms and good effects.
something like a quicklist.
if i were the type that likes to flash roms then i wouldnt ask.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
christ... do you need to bold and highlight everything?
there's no 1 rom that'll suit all users / we all have different preferences
"overview are already given by the ROM author/cook in their own respect threads"...
if you you cant be bothered to read and try/error yourself then i'm sorry, no one here can help you...
stick with the official rom you're using now... this would cause you the least issues...
otherwise go get an iphone/nokia

well, im always in good mood on helping new guys (coz im new and i know how hard is to jump in a so technical forum without any help), and personally i find comments like "tehres a lot of threads like this...bla bla", very unuseful...better to not answer at all instead of answering without giving informations...
anyway, as stated before, there is a lot of ROMs here, so search the one that will fit better your personality and don't bother ...
(jk)
is best to know what kind of improvements you'r searching.
Most of the info are coded in the title of the thread , so you can speed up a bit your research.
For example : [25.01.09] is the release date, this become useful when you need to track a ROM to see if there is some new updates, or just to locate the ROM in the time...
[WM.6.5.3] : it shows the OS (Windows Mobile 6.5.3) that will replace your old, lazy Windows Mobile 6.1, installed in all the official ROMs.
So if you are searching for a ROM including WiMo 6.5 or Android etc... this will be the code that should shine on your eyes.
[Manila.....] it means that the User Interface Manila (tipical in HTC products like Diamond, HD etc) was ported in the device, so you will get a pretty new user interface that you can also use like a panel instead of having it as default interface.
Others criteria can be referred to the pureness of a ROM or declare what kind of customizations were made by the cook , so a [WM.6.5 PURE] means that you will find ONLY the improvement of WM6.5.
Others are like brands, recalling the name of the cook, or the name of a "famous" ROM that has been changed in several aspect from the original but that will keep the feeling of the original one (like Touch-IT, SEX1, Un-Off series)...
Some others will refer to a specific HTC phone [LEO] or [TOPAZ], this means that the ROM were basically ported from an HTC device to another, or from another device to our X1 (see X2 ROMS) ...
Or you can find language indications [ITA] or [ENG] or [SWE] etc etc...
But first you need to know what you are searching for ...
For sure switching to WM6.5 is a huge change (imho) , avoiding Manila will save a lot of RAM, searching for some X2 stuff will give you some eye candy etc etc...
personally i installed on first days of December the SEX1 Pure WM 6.5 ROM from gtrab... amazing...simply amazing... very fast and bug free... it gave additional months of life to my X1.
On how to install a custom ROM (pretty different from updating ROM via SEUS) there is 2 sticky threads in this forum, you should learn how to do it by yourself...so don't ask about this...
Enjoy your X1 !

thanks a lot for the usefull information fiizu, im sure this will contiinuue to help some people regardless of how many similar threads there are.
for the other bored users who like to post useless information like those above, please don't..... im sure there are some interesting threads out there for you guys. (all irrelevant post will be deleted)
Once again thanlss fizu for the useful info.
by the way I do have some interesting programs let me know if you want any...
windows mobile torrent
morphgear emulator
coreplayer
windows video downloader(download youtube vids plus more)
microsft voice command
bing translator (translate entire conversations into a different language)
songloader(like limewire)
music id (from shazam)
about 11 great wvga games
and a few other stuff..
once again any simple/helpful information would be appreciated.

yaboistarr said:
thanks a lot for the usefull information fiizu, im sure this will contiinuue to help some people regardless of how many similar threads there are.
for the other bored users who like to post useless information like those above, please don't..... im sure there are some interesting threads out there for you guys. (all irrelevant post will be deleted)
Once again thanlss fizu for the useful info.
by the way I do have some interesting programs let me know if you want any...
windows mobile torrent
morphgear emulator
coreplayer
windows video downloader(download youtube vids plus more)
microsft voice command
bing translator (translate entire conversations into a different language)
songloader(like limewire)
music id (from shazam)
about 11 great wvga games
and a few other stuff..
once again any simple/helpful information would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How are any of the posts that Senior members like myself have posted are useless? You can't really experience a cook's ROM by asking other people. What someone might like might not be what's best for you. You really need to learn more about how this forum works. This isn't your typical forum where you can ask and get. This is a forum where you learn from experience, hence "Devolopers" in the title.
And the sharing of "warez" is not allowed! So you obviously have a lot of learning and reading to do. First off, start with the stickies on the main pages.

I understand that there is alot to this forum, i have been getting alot of my updates from here. when i said useless i meant just reply to this thread without attempting to help is useless. I like to hear people's opinions in order to make a decision since there is so much in this forum. it would be nice just to get some insight and opinions, not overloaded links.

yaboistarr said:
I understand that there is alot to this forum, i have been getting alot of my updates from here. when i said useless i meant just reply to this thread without attempting to help is useless. I like to hear people's opinions in order to make a decision since there is so much in this forum. it would be nice just to get some insight and opinions, not overloaded links.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And if you want other users opinions about ROMs then go to the specific ROM threads and READ!

@Yaboistarr
no warez for me man
@Im Packing
"This is a forum where you learn from experience"
yeah and is so satisfying ! That's why everybody here didnt bought an iPhone
Anyway don't forget that not everyone has the time needed to really learn everything, you cannot figure how much i would learn how to cook, but i don't have time...
First impact should be soft, you cannot start maths with equations uh?
Otherwise people will just fall back to sites where they can find warez or crappy applications...

fizu said:
@Yaboistarr
no warez for me man
@Im Packing
"This is a forum where you learn from experience"
yeah and is so satisfying ! That's why everybody here didnt bought an iPhone
Anyway don't forget that not everyone has the time needed to really learn everything, you cannot figure how much i would learn how to cook, but i don't have time...
First impact should be soft, you cannot start maths with equations uh?
Otherwise people will just fall back to sites where they can find warez or crappy applications...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lots people stop cooking X1 rom nowaday in this forum, it seems really sad, like 1-2 new rom every week
the best rom i can say in term of speed, stable, responsive would be wildchild 6.1 rom almost a year ago, its download likes only 60-70mb though, nothing install and you can install whatever you want after then
vietdoan20062006

yaboistarr said:
I understand that there is alot to this forum, i have been getting alot of my updates from here. when i said useless i meant just reply to this thread without attempting to help is useless. I like to hear people's opinions in order to make a decision since there is so much in this forum. it would be nice just to get some insight and opinions, not overloaded links.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not overload link and you start a new thread...??? Is people like you who over load

Thanks for the info.
I've been wanting to ask the same question but I'm waaaayy to shy to get flamed. There is such a thing as a bad answer and it's the one that contains useless or condescending material (like asking how to enable root login in linux, we know it's bad form but regurgitation of that is just stupid, answer the question or don't post).
That being said, I've been through these forums, have loaded several roms on and have tried to read through the rom pages. I have also noticed that sometimes things like radio version are missing from rom pages and that there's 110 or so pages of comments. Unfortunately, I don't have near enough time to look through that many comments, though I'd love to. This thread, due to one great answer, is awesome.
Basically, I forget the name, but sernior dude that keeps posting to read the comments and whatnot, in that same amount of time, could probably have contributed quite a bit to this thread, being in the know and probably having an opinion on the various roms/chefs/whatnot...
Also, a stikied thread where chef's can add their new roms to a table, or something on those lines, would be a huge benefit to everyone and save tonnes of time, not to mention it would get more spotlight for each chef as one wouldn't have to search through the billions of forum pages to find a rom...
Looking for an android rom at the moment, personally

fizu said:
@Yaboistarr
no warez for me man
@Im Packing
"This is a forum where you learn from experience"
yeah and is so satisfying ! That's why everybody here didnt bought an iPhone
Anyway don't forget that not everyone has the time needed to really learn everything, you cannot figure how much i would learn how to cook, but i don't have time...
First impact should be soft, you cannot start maths with equations uh?
Otherwise people will just fall back to sites where they can find warez or crappy applications...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's always time to learn...I own my own business working ungodly hours a week and I manage to find time to get on the forums to read/download ROMs. I was being straight forward about my approach, but I wasn't being rude at all. I can prove posts to where I'm rude. But for someone who's wanting to flash ROMs is willing to read to flash their phone, but not willing to read and find out what each cook has specifically done to their ROMs and asking for opinions instead is just flat out lazy.
mattmarion said:
Thanks for the info.
I've been wanting to ask the same question but I'm waaaayy to shy to get flamed. There is such a thing as a bad answer and it's the one that contains useless or condescending material (like asking how to enable root login in linux, we know it's bad form but regurgitation of that is just stupid, answer the question or don't post).
That being said, I've been through these forums, have loaded several roms on and have tried to read through the rom pages. I have also noticed that sometimes things like radio version are missing from rom pages and that there's 110 or so pages of comments. Unfortunately, I don't have near enough time to look through that many comments, though I'd love to. This thread, due to one great answer, is awesome.
Basically, I forget the name, but sernior dude that keeps posting to read the comments and whatnot, in that same amount of time, could probably have contributed quite a bit to this thread, being in the know and probably having an opinion on the various roms/chefs/whatnot...
Also, a stikied thread where chef's can add their new roms to a table, or something on those lines, would be a huge benefit to everyone and save tonnes of time, not to mention it would get more spotlight for each chef as one wouldn't have to search through the billions of forum pages to find a rom...
Looking for an android rom at the moment, personally
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The OP is willing to read about how flash his phone, but not willing to read what each ROM is about? I could share my experiences, but if you want to know what I think then go to each ROM specific thread and read what I've written! And if you're too lazy to really read the entire thread and find out what the ROM is really about because of the "I don't have time" excuse then just read the first page of each cook's ROM. There's almost always pictures, change logs, updates, and a good general wealth of information of what that ROM is about.
There should be no reason for threads to be started about which ROM is best for me as it's been stated a few times now that basically it's "To Each and Their Own!" This forum is about research and development. RESEARCH!

@im packing
really how you can judge the time of other people?
teach me that...please !
How can you say that the statement "i don't have time" is just an excuse and "help me" is lazyness...
Im not talking about how many hours you work weekly or daily....you are supposed to work during your job time and not learn xda dev fora... im talking about people that once finished the working time may have 1 or 2 hours to reach their houses and then deal with kids, wife, dogs, house management etc etc etc... to fall destroyed on their beds and wake up 5 hours later to restart again and again...
they don't have the right to acces this forum knowledge to have a better device?
or they don't deserve simply your patience and attention...?
explain me...
while i respect the job that you claimed for this community, you seems to me a bit arrogant...

fizu said:
while i respect the job that you claimed for this community, you seems to me a bit arrogant...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
believe me ...he is not arrogant if you try to maintain the same level with him

Android Development

I'm posting this in the Development section because that is what I am trying to learn about. Please move me if I am mis-posting this.
I'm greatly interested in the the Roms people are making and everything that is being done on these forums. If someone wanted to start to learn about these things, developing and such, where should they start? Do I need to learn Java? Are there certain books I should be reading?
I can flash my phone like its my day job now, and I haven't come across any major problems I couldn't solve by reading, but I have no idea where to start to be able to develop things myself. If any developers here could maybe throw out a few tips on how to get started, what someone should focus on learning, etc., it would be greatly appreciated! I have plenty of time and a great desire to learn so I'm not intimidated by having to do the work, I just have to have some things to focus on. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can give me!

I always wanted to know how make roms also I was looking around the internet but couldn't find anything that will describe it step by step word for word.
Maccie

It will be a huge writeup.But im sure someone will do it. I am still learning myself. There are some good topics around but different from what we have now

topshelf95 said:
I'm posting this in the Development section because that is what I am trying to learn about. Please move me if I am mis-posting this.
I'm greatly interested in the the Roms people are making and everything that is being done on these forums. If someone wanted to start to learn about these things, developing and such, where should they start? Do I need to learn Java? Are there certain books I should be reading?
I can flash my phone like its my day job now, and I haven't come across any major problems I couldn't solve by reading, but I have no idea where to start to be able to develop things myself. If any developers here could maybe throw out a few tips on how to get started, what someone should focus on learning, etc., it would be greatly appreciated! I have plenty of time and a great desire to learn so I'm not intimidated by having to do the work, I just have to have some things to focus on. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you can give me!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are a number of aspects to android development you have to learn to know how to build a full ROM from scratch. C is of course required for kernel building, and apps are built from java in the dalvik-vm, but can be built against sun java.
of course, to get started, you would need the android sdk available here: http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html
then there's the cloning of the android git:
http://android.git.kernel.org/
and, specifically for the captivate, there's the captivate source code:
http://opensource.samsung.com/
then there's pulling off the vendor proprietary libs from your phone (which is a ***** and I believe you can grab them from wes's github, though I can't speak for their accuracy) here:
http://github.com/wesgarner/proprietary_vendor_samsung
building the entire android OS from source is a challenge, especially compensating for some changes Samsung has introduced. this is what a real ROM is. now if you're talking about "ROM"s like Cognition and Shep's and even Eugene's Hybrid/Frankin-Twiz... they aren't comparable. Not to belittle any of their efforts, but this is simple "drag and drop" from stuff built by Samsung. While they're very useful tools, there is little actual development going on in them. There are improvements and tweaks, for sure... but it isn't a *true* ROM. All these releases by DesignGears, Eugene, and Shep are good and effective, but it'd be a shame if they weren't because they are just files thrown together from Samsung's already compiled ROM(s). Even the AOSP Beta 3 (which I have a qualm with the name, because it isn't actually AOSP, it's files pulled from an already built AOSP tossed onto Samsung's ROM again) is just modifying binaries (decompile, edit, recompile).
for those, it's as simple as extracting the zip, replacing the files you want, and rezip it. modifying the update-script inside meta-inf if there's something you want to add.

Awesome post Kaik, thanks, I was wondering some of those too.

Thx that explained a bunch
Maccie

Thank you for taking the time to post that Kaik! It's nice to have a place to start! Anyone else have any tips or things they think might be good to check out?

last, but certainly not least and I can't believe I forgot this, is Unhelpful's toolchain to compile against:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=761923
he did a lot of testing with various combinations, and this was the best he found to reduce wakeup lag and other issues

Wow. Kaik. That was the most awesome response to that question I have ever seen. Most people just point to developer.android.com and say go learn to program and come back in 5 years.
Thank you for this very useful information. Your the man now dog.

johnyhoffman said:
Most people just point to developer.android.com and say go learn to program and come back in 5 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Devs are not being mean or pissy, they are being honest and realistic. If development was just "point and click" XDA would not even be here. Give the devs/veterans a break and take it upon yourself to learn the basics and do some searches, if you are that interested.
I would love to just start making my own Android OS just the way I like too but to do that will require much more reading and learning, trying and failing.
You will probably not find "the answer" you are looking for but if you search, read and most importantly, respect the time, energy and anguish people have put into this site you will find the means to get where you want.
Otherwise you can expect... "Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well here is a modded ROM. I'll try that. Jeez, that sucks. How do I make my own? Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well ..." It is an endless cycle.
I'm not saying this to belittle anyone. Most have been there, including myself. I say this as a vote of confidence to all.
Hang in there, do the work, break some phones, read some books. Really! You have to!

koe1974 said:
Devs are not being mean or pissy, they are being honest and realistic. If development was just "point and click" XDA would not even be here. Give the devs/veterans a break and take it upon yourself to learn the basics and do some searches, if you are that interested.
I would love to just start making my own Android OS just the way I like too but to do that will require much more reading and learning, trying and failing.
You will probably not find "the answer" you are looking for but if you search, read and most importantly, respect the time, energy and anguish people have put into this site you will find the means to get where you want.
Otherwise you can expect... "Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well here is a modded ROM. I'll try that. Jeez, that sucks. How do I make my own? Let me just glance and peek to see how to do this. Damn what the hell does that mean? Oh well ..." It is an endless cycle.
I'm not saying this to belittle anyone. Most have been there, including myself. I say this as a vote of confidence to all.
Hang in there, do the work, break some phones, read some books. Really! You have to!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this times one thousand. I linked you guys to some very useful sites when it comes to actually putting android together... but understanding how it all works, actually getting a successful build, fixing bugs, etc... I can't even begin to pretend to be able to help with that. if you have little to no experience in C and Java, these things will basically be useless to you. dev's aren't being mean when they brush you off like that, but usually if you can't figure out how to google what to do with the code, they don't have high hopes for what you'll be able to do with it once you find the code.
the idea isn't to be like "f*** off" when they say that, it's more of a "we'll help you when you learn, but you're the one who needs to take the first steps and you need to take the responsibility of learning on yourself."

I was actually referring to the fact that someone like me, a hobbyist programmer for about 10 years now, can make sense of his reply and use it to go forth and actually do something. Most of the guides you find on here that are supposedly pointed at noobs, do not layout things as easily as his post did.
Wasn't criticizing anyone, but I have seen less patience nowadays for any posts such as these.
Was just saying it was a gem of a post for me personally. Maybe it doesn't help the ultra noobs and the more experienced people see it as useless, but for someone with little time right now, it was a perfect post for me.

[Q] Diversity of roms/kernels

Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (edit: it's not always obvious).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?

ergosum said:
Hi,
Firstly, I don't want to sound unrespectful to developers. It is just a few complains but I admire the time each one spend for creating new roms. There are lots, lots of roms/kernels in the android development section. It's a complete jungle! For a non technical user, I find it really difficult to choose a rom because:
There are no standard table stating what is different with the other. The list described by each developer is not always clear. Especially when he or she sees "aroma", "CRT", "ram hack", "zipalign" without explication. Wouldn't one nice and small sentence be sufficient to explain these terms?
The issues for each rom are not tracked. I think there should be a tracking system like JIRA so that we can confirm if a bug is already described and if it is still present in future release.
It should be clear if a rom is based from stock or AOSP rom (not always the case).
There is no centralized topic explaining the differences. But I have seen there is topic listing roms.
To my mind, there should be in each rom description something like a history, a short sentence like "I have based this rom on this other rom because I feel it lacks this and that." (not always the case), instead of just throwing "hi, [screenshot], how to install this rom?". ^^
I believe what happen is that one user will check the 3 or 4 first roms and will get confused.
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people. I think a centralized JIRA (each rom = one project) idea would be very helpful to compare but I don't know if it is easy to implement.
What do you think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually always or it is baseed on stock or aosp or cyanogenmod it's pretty much in every thread i see. it's always described in the information they write.
and a centralized topic where is everything written well. it's for everybody else some like Lg stock ui and some like more clean android
Issue tracking jira i dont really understand i only know that developers are just wanting a catlog if there is a problem so they can see from what the problem is coming from or what it is related.
and that from a short sentence well. every rom misses something it's for everybody different and in almost all roms they are describing where it is based on and they have permission to use other work (the base) but some people are not asking it like the miui team who just took kowalski kernel without permission and they don't even give credit or something like that.
this post is just my opinion how i think it is

ergosum said:
...
Generally speaking, I feel that when you read a rom description from the author, it is addressed to technical people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?

DrummerMuppet said:
I do support the idea of asking the developers for more detailed info of their ROM / kernel features, however keep in mind that this is an Android development site - members are expected to have some level of knowledge and / or the will to learn stuff by themselves.
On the other hand, I've seen developers who care enough to spend time writing detailed documentation about their work and yet you'll find people asking questions or posting stuff without even reading the OP or using the search function. This obviously discourages the developer. Who will want to spend hours or even days writing how their stuff works or what are its main features if people won't take the time to read it?
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I understand, but I don't ask for hours of well descriptions. One sum-up sentence and one link to a topic where other people has already spent the time should be enough. Example: an developer says "here are the 3 kernels [links]" and the only difference you can tell when looking at the links was "32rh", "16rh", "0rh". I had to guess that "rh" is ram hack and search for what it is. While with just "the ram hack is taking memory from GPU for the CPU", it's a clean and quick explanation. Otherwise people are bound to ask questions when they see this.
As for the JIRA system, it's just more obvious to see, for a newcomer:
how much issue a rom has at the moment
if a troubling issue important for you is described and prevent you from using the rom (so you don't waste time)
help the developer to see easyly what is wrong (instead of navigating through all the post)
help the developer by centralizing all the relevant information for one issue in one page, instead of having these spread everywhere