I realise that this is very much a "how-long-is-a-piece-of-string" type question, but I'd really like to get some idea of the costs and time involved in developing an app for the Android market compared to the iPhone.
My understanding is that it doesn't cost developers to submit apps to the Android Marketplace (as opposed to the iPhone Developer’s Program which costs $99 a year). So there's a saving there.
But in terms of development costs, would you suggest that hiring a developer to create an Android app would be cheaper because the market's smaller? Would it make no difference at all? Would it be harder to find a developer to code for Android?
Basically, any thoughts anyone has on this would be really appreciated.
Cheers,
Why don't you try and find out? Ask some (android)developers what app x would cost and ask some (iphone)developers the same
for most applications it should be cheaper to hire an Android programmer because you develop in standard Java and this is the most widely used language in computer science education. Eclipse is also a standard development environment many young programmers are familiar with. Even I was able to code my first Android application in a matter of minutes.
Objective-C on the other side is a nieche language. Of course, every good progammer can learn that language in a couple of hours or at least days but there are definitly more experienced Java programmers out there and they can reuse code (snippets). Java code is so ubiqitous you can find for a lot of problems coded and tested solutions. So two reasons: there are much more Java programmers out there and they can develop faster. Specific Android experience is not needed as long as you don't want to program kernel extensions or things like that.
But I guess the Apple-market is still more profitable because Apple users are trained to spend money. So even as it may cost more to develop it also brings in more revenue. I hope the sheer amount of Android handsets out there will outweigh this advantage soon.
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
robert_tlse said:
Humm .. i think this is a tricky question.
While it will definitely be cheaper to develop an application for android, the question you might want to ask (depending on what you want to do) is what is the ROI of an Android application versus and IOS application.
And even then, depending on the type of application & the demographic your app will be targeting (not to mention usability, design, general app quality) the response will likely vary quite a bit too.
But globally yeah, it's cheaper and less a hassle to make an android app i'd say. ..then again, i have an allergy to apples, and this is an android forum after all
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hehe, I agree on that Robert.
ten chars!!!
You can also spend many months developing an iPhone app, only to have it rejected by Apple for no good reason. That's quite expensive.
It is, however, unescapable that there are a lot of iOS users who buy a lot of apps from the App Store, so the potential ROI is higher. There's also only a few platforms to develop for (although this is becoming increasingly less the case).
Would like for Android to have more focus though; it's getting there!
(The diminutive term "app" does irk me slightly - Apple have popularised it in relation to phones when they convinced everyone that the iPhone was the first phone to support third-party software. Guess it's stuck now though.)
then why are Android apps more expensive??
Android apps aren't more expensive. They have by far the largest proportion of free apps on any mobile platform and even those that do cost are comparatively cheap.
Android will probably be easier and cheaper to develop for..the only concern people have with Android is fragmentation...aka when developing you gotta decide which versions and up to develop for and choose the appropriate functions for the documentation. Of course in the end all the old devices will upgrade eventually and be compatible anyways..
My hope is though Apple lets 3rd party development tools back in...cause that way you can use Adobe AIR and make an App for both Android and iPhone at the same time....How I wish for cross platform app development...but Apple will fight it till the and cause if they don't they will loose one of their biggest advantages...
In my opinion Android is just now getting to the average joe especially in the United States. Older people are even trying the droid line of devices since there are so many to choose from now on all carriers (vs 1 iphone on AT&T forever just revised of course) So yeah, even people here in hicksville, MO USA are even trying it out go figure. If everyone hasn't heard of HTC or Android, they're definitely being introduced to it now through the Galaxy S series since it's on almost all carriers and has some snazzy media buzz.
With all these new cells and tablets coming out I give it a mere 2-3years and everyone will know our lil green droid dude globally, and use it on multiple devices around the house. Just my theory. I'm sure the Marketplace will grow 10/fold in that time, peace!
I guess there are a few things to keep in mind:
Politics:
1) Apple tries to regulate what is permitted to be installed on their phones. They don't provide any real guidelines, nor do they tell you in advance if your application will be accepted. You'll only discover after submitting your app that it isn't permitted. So they waste your time, and numerous high end projects have developed their application only to discover Apple blocks them because "they are duplicating functionality" *cough competing*. Yes, lots of money has been lost.
2) Apple is Non-Disclosure Agreement overload. Send an email to apple and it always says "this information is confidential". Basically, Apple's agreement is so bad (unless it's changed recently) that they can cancel the account/sue you any time they wish. That increases your risk further.
3) iPhone's can be jail-broken to install 3rd party apps, but many people wont. Even if the Google store wont accept your app, they can manually install it, or you can use another store... Without jailbreaking.
4) Many developers often complain of long delays getting their apps approved, and when removed from the store by Apple, they have to flood Apple with emails for reason's why. On android, you don't even need to use the App store, in fact, Android has the benefit of allowing paid apps to be sold in countries with export restrictions (because they can sell it via other means).
5) Piracy is possibly more rife on Android, however, Google are apparently implementing an API which allows apps to check if they were purchased for that phone, which should strongly reduce piracy once available (because it means that dodgy stores will need to actually crack the programs). Once this is implemented, hopefully it will stop the jackass spammers from selling pirated stuff.
Development Process:
1) iPhones use objective C, Android uses Dalvik. Dalvik is VERY similar to java, one simply needs to learn the differences. Objective C is also quite easy to learn though, but it probably takes more experience to do well (because c++ doesn't have the idea of selectors). If you try creating apps on the iPhones without using objective C originally though, your app might be removed. On android, frankly, Google doesn't give a damn provided, it works.
2) Big win for Android here, the Android SDK works on Linux,Windows AND OSX. It integrates with eclipse which already has a large user-base. Whereas, you need to buy a mac for code for the iPhone, and the SDK is OSX only.
3) That being said, you can make a cross-platform webapp that can be sold for both, but the user needs to be online.
4) Objective C is compiled code, whilst Java is bytecode. Bytecode can run as fast as compiled (with some initial overhead). Native sounds great, but if Apple ever does a processor change for their phones, it might be a world of hurt. If massively-multicore mobile processors are released, Android is probably better suited. That being said, by then, you'll probably need to fix some things in your app anyway because of API changes.
Actual sales:
1) Apparently in the past, you would have sold more in the Apple market. However, in the past, Android mobiles were actually quite rare because Android stunk. Froyo is probably the first Android OS that can compete against iOS effectively because it now supports JIT. There is also a much greater emphasis on Android these days in advertising, and I see more Android advertising than iPhone. Possibly inaccurate predictions suggest they will overtake the iPhone in 2012 too.
2) Sales figures don't represent profit though (so whilst iOS may generate more still, it's less than Apple claims). A google market account costs $25, whereas an Apple iPhone development account costs $99. Furthermore, you need Apple equipment to code for the Apple market (which can be significantly more expensive than PC's), and there is no estimates done to determine profits lost by being rejected from the Apple app store (there have been major projects which cost thousands to develop which have been rejected). So greater overheads on the Apple store, which means for cheap/quick apps, you are probably safer developing for Android (especially if you don't already own a mac).
My opinion:
For me, developing major apps is too high risk for iPhones. Although, if your app is approved, there are potentially bigger payoffs than Android. For small apps which don't have a predictable further, you may earn more on Android because of lower overheads. If you app is rejected for iPhone though for competing, you wasted weeks/months of your life, and need to use a 3rd party store (since only hacked phones can use them though, you dramatically decrease your sales instantly).
Anyway, my thoughts are that by the end of the year, everyone will know what Android is, and you may start to see manufacturers getting together to launch MAJOR campaigns to promote Android, especially since they now all have a common enemy (Apple basically took a cheapshot at other major manufacturers to justify their design flaw). Apple is only a small guy when it comes to manufacturing phones, and so it's as though they threw a few tiny pebbles at a team of football players to show off. Of course, some of those football players have already started retaliating, and it just depends on how annoyed they got.
Personally, I think iPhone would be great if they didn't do the "anti-competitive" thing they always do, but as it stands, I am now doing my Oracle/Sun SCJP, and hope to get into Android coding soon. If Apple starts acting less evil though, I will take another look in their direction, but they are mistreating the users they need the most, the developers. It's a pity, because Apple really has potential.
Source: I haven't sold any apps on either market yet, but I have mostly decided on developing for Android.
Developing new iPhone app looking for developer
I have a cool iPhone app idea it's a very simple game that I could like to create I am looking for a developer in the Los angeles area I am new here so please if your interested or can redirect me to the right person I would appreciate it thank you...email me with any info
Related
Everywhere you look is special applications designed for the iphone. Well...I personally don't have one and I think I should be allowed the same privilege to use said applications.
So what I'm wondering is how do applications run on the iphone? Is it a special kernel?
And if so, would it be possible to incorporate a sort of emulator of the iphone on our mobiles to run these iphone specific applications?
Cat Eye said:
I personally don't have one and I think I should be allowed the same privilege to use said applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WTF? As you said, they're iphone apps, that are made to run on the iphone... If you want to run them, buy one. Or find equivalents for WM.
The iphone is a completely different hardware and software platform than a PocketPC.
kilrah said:
WTF? As you said, they're iphone apps, that are made to run on the iphone... If you want to run them, buy one. Or find equivalents for WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whoa, cool your jets and get over this WM/iPhone rivalry.
Check this out CatEye: http://microsoftwow.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!28962096F48747EA!212.entry
I don't know anything about other than seeing the web page. Let us know if you have some luck.
Thanks for the responces. I've seen the whole launcher before but that's not what I'm refering to.
When you go to a site (meebo or Facebook) they have iphone specfic applications. What makes it so those work on the iphone plateform?
I tried to get one of these applications but it tries to take me to the apple store and I don't have itunes so it stops me there.
lol....WM is wayyyy better than the iPhone! (well in my opinion).
XD but i wish WM had multi touch! Can't wait till WM7 or 8 come out! (rumours say that they will have software enabled multitouch!) :O
Don't think it's gonna happen...
AFAIK, there is nothing that will allow you to run iphone programs on wm, and there is probably about a snowball's chance in hell of that ever happening. Iphone is definitely a different kernel, in fact, it is an entirely different operating system, and to make matters worse, it's closed source too. I would just try to find the equivalent applications for windows mobile. For some reason, despite the fact that there are much more users of wm, many websites are obsessed with being supported by the iphone. It's a sad reality, but unfortunately, this is how it is.
Dave
Cat Eye said:
When you go to a site (meebo or Facebook) they have iphone specfic applications. What makes it so those work on the iphone plateform?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Programmers develop a specific version of their website, or stand-alone programs especially for the iphone in addition to the "normal" product. They could do the same for WM - but now the hype is about the iphone, so that's where developers are investing.
That's 100% marketing and fashion. Apple have managed to create such a hype over their iphone that it has simultaneously pushed developers to develop content specifically for it as they would be assured to reach a large audience with it, and people to get one so they could gain access to the said content and goodies - and it worked way too well. The Iphone is the current trend and everybody must make something for it to be "in the move", while people must have one to be in the move (most of the people I know who have bought iphones did it because it's the current "must-have" item, not because of it's capabilities, and they don't use them...)
WM has been around for more than a decade more or less "unnoticed", so there's not the same incentive for people to make stuff for it.
The Iphone triggered a huge workforce, so many people developing stuff for it in such a short time, that maybe in a few months there have been as many programs developed for it than for WM in the last 10 years... and the appstore gathers them all in one easy to search place as opposed of the large scatter of WM stuff everywhere... makes it so easy that it's attractive.
So in summary - it made such a hype that everybody in the general public is gathering around that thing and forgetting the rest.
kilrah said:
WTF? As you said, they're iphone apps, that are made to run on the iphone... If you want to run them, buy one. Or find equivalents for WM.
The iphone is a completely different hardware and software platform than a PocketPC.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I second this motion!
What I'm aiming for is sort of a cross-platform. Like how Linux can be run with Windows now. Trying to knock down some of the propiatory software apple has been getting developed. If they can't keep thier software specific to the iphone, then what would be the reason to get one? Something that can play music and go online?
Just something to throw out there.
I think part of the problem is all you need is a mac and you can start coding an application, there's nothing else to buy. On the WM side, while you can download the SDK for free, you have to spend another chunk of money to buy visual studio, which sorry to say, does require a bit of knowledge to code with.
I have a mac, and had an iphone for a little while, and was able to design an application fairly easily.
If MS would create development tools easier to use and free/cheap, I think we would see more applications. The other tough part is, the windows mobile phones out there are more varied. Different form factors, keyboards, touch screens, resolutions, gps, and now accelerometers. At the moment there are 2 different iphones, but they run the same version, same resolution, same hardware buttons, the other differences are already exposed in the SDK so if you want to code and app that uses the 3G connection or GPS it's pretty easy to do so.
If any WM dev guys have some good ideas on free coding let's get going.
iphones run macosx like macs thats a gui on top of a bsd unix based kernel
iphone apps are written in objectC and use cocoa which is a bit like .net
any cpu can emulate any other if it have access to enough memory
mind you it will not be in realtime but much much slower
not to mention that it could take man years to develop the emulator
and prob give a lawsuit or 2 from apple
Rudegar said:
not to mention that it could take man years to develop the emulator
and prob give a lawsuit or 2 from apple
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny how Apple came out with Bootcamp within seconds of announcing they were switching to Intel processors , but let one person come up with an OSX emulator and the lawsuits fly.
P. S. The Kaiser is pushing two years old, it is still amazing to me that we are still having these " how do I make my Kaiser look and act like an iPhone. " discussions
P.P.S. What are you when you reach 10,000 posts ? A Super Senior Member ?
Given a Gold Watch and put out to pasture ?
I know , your wife serves you with divorce papers and names That #@$*ing phone as the reason.
EDIT: I changed my mind, if someone provides me a working iphone ROM for the touch pro 2, I'll give you $1000. If you want details of what I want, I'll give them but it would require the ability to sync with itunes, all sprint cdma radios to work, wifi, bluetooth, 3g, usb, internet tethering, text messaging, basically, a 99% working ROM. I know the money isn't much but that's about how much an iphone would be worth to me.
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
ChristopherJLee said:
please pass this on to your favorite developer/programmer
It seems like there are many different ROM's, or OS's that can be modified to run on these tiny little computers. So why not the apple iphone OS? Seems like hardware wise we would be in heaven with such a great keyboard to the most popular and succesful phone ever. Have any of the talented programmers here attempted it? i would easily pay $50 ore even more for it, as I'm sure many, many other people would. i am certain that there is a programmer out there with access to the iphone source code and can write in the drivers for the hardware. i realize it would be illegal and copyright infrigement but the person that could do it would be infamous and be offered a sweet, cushy programming job at a huge corporation. which of you programmers are currently in a job they don't like or even unemployed? this would be your opportunity to cross the invisible barrier and make double, triple, or even 100X your current salary. think about it.
PS-other than the amazing talents that you would be displaying by doing this, even if you don't become famous, I'm still going to show you how to make money off this. Immediately before releasing the program to the public, get as much money as you can to buy, borrow, cheat, steal, or using whatever means necessary and get every single touch pro 2 phone you can find. i literally mean, 10000+ of them if possible. As soon as the program is released, the word will get out, and within weeks the cost of getting a touch pro 2 on the black market will be upwards of $600-$800, maybe even more. an iphone with a keyboard...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are sooooo many reasons this can't and won't happen. Where shall I start? The vastly different screen resolution? The completely different hardware which has absolutely no support? The bootloader? Or maybe the fact it's closed source, and thus can't easily (if at all) be modified to the point where it runs on our devices? (There probably isn't even a HAL, or only a minimal one at best). Maybe the fact that there would be lawsuits up the a** from Apple if this ever happened, not 6-digit salaries and job opportunities. I personally would rather see developers devoting time to creating a fully, working port of Linux than a half-a**ed iPhone OS port which doesn't boot into a GUI or even a console (if it boots at all), and doesn't even support basic elements of iPhone OS like multi-touch and synchronization. This idea has been suggested over the years quite a few times, and it's never gotten anywhere because there are so many things working against it.
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project. Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day. Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive. Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
I'm not necessarily against such a thing (if it were to be fully completed) but all I'm saying is that there is already a huge shortage of talented developers who can port operating systems, and we don't need to be wasting their talents and efforts on a wild goose chase of a port, such as this proposed project.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disagree, the shortage is not from lack of talented developers who can port operating systems, it's that some of the talented developers don't have the motivation to do it. i'm hoping that my post will spur some of the ones dreaming about truly making it big
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Even if the port is completely finished, there are fundamental problems such as lack of multi-touch, OS updates having to be adapted each release, the issue of all apps being the wrong resolution while no scaling mechanism is built into the OS (unlike android), and many other reasons I could literally go on listing all day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree there would be issues but like all software, it can be modified. for example, up-scaling could run as a default for the entire system as there would be no need to have the iphone running 800 x 480, it could be the default iphone resolution
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Besides, your whole scenario of a port is flawed itself. I think I can safely say that nobody on this forum has access to the iPhone's full source. I think I can also safely say that the price of a black-market TP2 probably wouldn't go up that much if at all, since you can still buy them from HTC or any other retailer (often for dirt cheap with a commitment), and any black market TP2 would have to be cheap enough to be somewhat competitive.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're probably right, no one on this forum has access but someone's friend of a friend that works at apple or is a consultant does. Yes, you can buy touch pro 2's on the internet but there's a limited supply. in april of 2009 it was reported 37 million iphones/ipod touches have been sold. this is over a 3 year period. in a 2 day period 270,000 iphones were sold. are there even 270,000 touch pro 2 users? how many of us have the money and the means to end our contract and pay for an iphone? how many of us simply don't do it because of the cost and/or cons of using att or a phone with no keyboard? there aren't enough touch pro 2's in existance
DaveTheTytnIIGuy said:
Your scenario also relies on the assumption that Apple won't throw their entire legal team at this forum and the developers responsible. Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is at best a pipe-dream, and simply won't happen for a myriad of reasons. If you want the iPhone OS, buy an iPhone or get the SDK and use the emulator included, or if you want the look of the iPhone on your TP2, look at iPhone today and S2U2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that Apple would do all of this, worldwide fame and recognition of your talents. Surely someone would face the consequences than stay nameless in a basement somewhere for the rest of their life. Someone is reading this that can and will do it because it is achievable.
aZzz.bZzz said:
just wondering are there any iphone users who want winmo on their device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes please...........oh sorry i was only joking
apple don't like it.......
when people clone or try to copy there OS
they have and will come down on us like a ton of bricks
this is a reason why people don't try it.
I thought the interwebs is soo vast far and wide.
But I just cant seem to hide from these Iphone crap...
Dumb idea...
As a developer, there is no way in h*ll I would try this. First off, Apple would rain fire and brimstone down on top of you. Apple is one of the most controlling and paranoid companies on the planet. XDA would get shutdown almost immediately just for being associated with it.
Besides, I like not being a sheep. So why would I want to imitate one? Let the sheeple be happy with their device. I'll be happy with mine.
i'll happily be a sheeple
data that's relevant to you individually? why aren't any other phones doing this exact thing as well? it's been 3 years since the iphone came out, surely someone outside of apple realizes the benefits of the iphone and should be building it into wm6 or 7, and android. a phone that actually uses your current location to suggest food and things that you can enjoy that you would otherwise miss the opportunity or waste your time looking for? the games, the programs, the applications, are all built well and perform well because of the os that is used. the iphone os, interface, all of it, is genius. there are things to improve, but let someone crack it and then the rest of us will come up with improvements
I'll port this over if you can get me the iPhone OS source code. I'm thinking you'll run into trouble though, because it's not publicly available
Please read up on development before making such an outlandish request
this thread is done
as if we let it happen here we will be contacted by apple
and they don't like it when people play with there toys.
thread closed
I have an article I wrote... it's on another website but i'm posting it here -
I think you guys should really read it.
----------
It is in our nature as human beings to defend our…opinions. Whether or not our love for something has truly blinded our ability to tear it down and look at it’s gears that lie beneath it’s beauty, well, remains to be decided by one or another acclaimed Universities’ Neurological / Psychological team. One thing is certain, though; fanboy/fangirl mentality has swept the mobile technology society, and it has done so in a way that is so disturbing, at times, that we fail to realize we can actually contribute to helping the creators and maintainers of our favorite mobile operating systems by unravelling our cynicism from their tightly wound and tangled branches and taking a deeper look at pros and cons rather than pros and “other things it does that this other platform doesn’t do”. Sure, your mobile OS might do some things differently, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it does everything else better.
Lets take, for instance, some of the scrutiny people receive on various forms of social networking. It almost seems like if you do not have an opinion that is 100 percent, glass completely full positive about an operating system, you will get made fun of, talked about, “flamed”, or worse – banned on some of the other less reputable forums. By reputable I don’t mean they don’t have lots of followers and users, I mean their administration is mediocre at best.
My qualm? The fact that this seems more and more prevalent within the Android community. Such a fast growing, beautifully shaping mobile operating system is being systematically destroyed by fast-to-act overnight developers and teenagers, young adults and adults who take their fanboy mentality to the next level. Having an opinion, feeling strongly about it and going to great lengths to defend said opinion is absolutely fine, and at times, a remarkable display of confidence and courage – it’s when you’re threatening to punch someone over a dispute about what Android lacks that disturbs some of us in the mobile media profession.
Lets face it – Android itself is a powerful FOUNDATION – and that needs to be said. All too often people confuse fundamental with complementary - and it’s beginning to get to the point that soon consumers will be completely mislead. Fundamental: Android boasts great multitasking management, live wallpapers, google sync, a stand alone launcher, and for the most part direct social media integration. Complementary: TouchWiz, Sense UI, Moto/Ninjablur – these are user interface overlays. These are not google’s creations – they are the respective cell phone companies creations. That being said, ADW, Launcherpro, and rosie (sense) are home screen replacement/launcher replacement applications, and these work off of the fundamentals of Android. So when someone says they would rather use the Iphone style selection, because the user interface is very easy to use, that’s okay. When you buy an Iphone, you know what experience you are getting right out of the box – it never changes, and is rarely altered. On the other hand there are so many Android devices out there that one can’t really make an educated claim about the actual platform without at least trying two or more phones! Think about it.
(For Example: As a consumer, you want a powerful phone but you don’t want to download homescreen replacements and flash a bunch of ROM’s. You might think Android is terrible after you purchased your Droid X, because it’s ugly, ninjablur is sluggish, and motorola widgets are terrible. THAT is how the average person reflects the Android experience. Our community needs to remember that. They then purchase a Galaxy S phone and are blown away, but sometimes don’t even know it’s Android because the difference is so dramatic! Consider these scenarios, because they are fact, and frequent).
No need to call any person an Iphone fanboy and curse them out, children. It’s called emotional intelligence – obtain some. Sure, you can recommend before they get rid of their phone they try ADW launcher, and when they say ” It’s faster, but still doesn’t have that smooth feel and ease of use to it” don’t shun them off. Simply leave it alone. A simple ” Sorry you can’t get with android! Maybe there will be an alternative launcher or ROM so you can continue to use the Android platform ” would suffice. Shortly after, if their phone is supported, you can recommend MIUI to them. Get where I’m going? I mean lets be honest, if it weren’t for the hundreds of themers and themes out there, and AOSP ROM’s like Cyanogen and Liberty, Android would be pretty damn ugly. I’d take the Iphone prettiness over the stock Android look any day. (Unless of course my phone is running the MattedBlues theme).
What i’m trying to say, in a nutshell, is give people a chance to voice their opinion. Yes, Android is definitely an awesome platform. So is iOS. Even Windows Phone 7 is starting to shape up nicely, and lets be honest – that user interface is damn sexy, especially if you’re a minimalist. Next time, think before you’re quick to knock someone else’s thought – it might have some serious insight behind it. We are always quick to accept our perfection, and hesitant to realize our faults. Maybe we should take a step back and look at things from every angle – because in order to move forward, we have to admit our mistakes. Android does a lot of things right, but it does a lot wrong, as well; and until our community as a whole is able to accept that and give positive and constructive negative feedback, we will not transcend to the next level.
missing tldr ?
i really like the subject of the first few paragraphs , ill write somthing smart after i wake up , untill then , this post will serve as a placeholder (except if it gets burried by other posts)
For those tl:dr = "What i’m trying to say, in a nutshell, is give people a chance to voice their opinion."
Thanks for the article, I enjoyed it. I think you touched base with the article, I'm still sick and it's late, so I'm probably not making all that much sense as I type this out but I agree, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and I just think that if one doesn't like they could simply just move on and voice theirs, no need to go at each other's throat. I know a few people who just go at each other's throat the instant something's mentioned and it's just 'oooh my thing is better than yours', it does get boring and it is a bit immature and childish to keep going like that. Of course, as the saying goes, if there's nothing nice to say, don't say it at all. Personally, for me I'm love my HTC Desire but I still have an appreciation for the other names out there.
I too enjoyed the article immensely.
Thank you for the good read. :"
Sparky WAS in the doghouse. Now, He's allowed on the deck at least.
My Nexus S is annoying me.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57526994-94/android-users-outraged-over-motorolas-broken-promise/
Put simply hardware vendors suck. They lie. and they do it strategically!
People read and believe the BS that comes from stupid puppets that work for these companies
I know I am screaming and preaching to the converted by ranting this here, hence why I actually took to CNET's page to oooze my rant all over the ingnorant public.
Think about it carefully for a moment. Android = open source. Operating system cost = zero dollars with exceptions to the company paying any licensing fees to Google Android (what ever that might be - I am including it for the sake of someone coming to correct me that knows better or otherwise) and returns the vendor what? Zero....if not negative money (as stated above). Hardware = profit.Truth!
Investors invest money into companies usually based upon what? PROFITS!
So the goal in the game is to support as little as possible only enough to disgruntle the least number of users or potential users and release as many new devices as they can to make....what....OH THATS RIGHT....PROFITS!!!
Company makes investors happy so that they can invest more money into the company to make it bigger and more prosperous! Hardware vendors give a care to current users about as much as the dog sh!t they wipe from underneath their shoes.
For those that were interested in what I actually posted on CNET's page...go here:
http://news.cnet.com/8618-1035_3-57...07&assetTypeId=12&blogId=2&messageId=13032859
Lastly I would like to say thanks to XDA for 1) Me finding you and allowing you to provide access to developers and a community; so that my device can live on many many many more lifetimes than that of the ignorant sheep public that think their device is outdated. 2) Opening my eyes (and respect) to appreciation the developers here who constantly out-do these lying vendors (most single handedly too). Thanks to you all for giving things a shot and working your arses off for free!
PS: Jarmez doesn't rock....developers rock!
The skin overlays like BLUR, TouchWiz, etc that OEMs put over AOSP does cost them money. In addition to making their phones less desirable IMO, the skins hake it harder for them to give users the new updates to android. We love the new features that come with new versions of Android, but they also fix bugs and sometime even add security. Since OEMs have to add their skins, users end up with buggier, less secure, feature lacking phones. That is why so many are drove to XDA, they have no other choice. Thanks to all the amazing devs and themers and moders etc that make XDA great.
I am almost inclined to agree with articles I've been reading more and more of lately.. They argue that only Nexus phones are Android phones, and that BLUR phones should be BLUR, TouchWiz phones should be Toucwiz, etc, as far as market share goes. If you look at it like that, Android is a very small share of the market. I would have to go ahead and include phones running AOSP ROMs in that number. It would be next to impossible to really determine all that though.
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
Apourv said:
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're correct, can't root and you can only sideload apps if you're a developer. No custom roms, no root, your friend's a fandroid who's insecure about their OS.
I think disabling Sideloading is better. Because Wallet services are coming to mobile so chances are high that someone might make app which will hack mobile payment passwords and accounts, using app which people sideload. This might make android insecure, when making NFC payments.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
Disable sideloading? And then how are dev supposed to test their apps on their phones ? - the emulator is not a good choice in some cases.
Also, there are no custom roms YET, but I am pretty sure there will be. There's nothing in this world that can be protected from hacking
timotei21 said:
Disable sideloading? And then how are dev supposed to test their apps on their phones ? - the emulator is not a good choice in some cases.
Also, there are no custom roms YET, but I am pretty sure there will be. There's nothing in this world that can be protected from hacking
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developers can unlock their phones. Others can't.
Apourv said:
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Blocking load of apps is a huge OVERKILL.
Say I wand to write an app, and distribute it freely, and do not want to put it on the market ?
What then ?
Besides that - if the IPhone with all it's locks and vaults can be set to load apps outside the Apple market,
it is safe to say that WinPhone will have the same crack.
Locking the device and limiting the user is a bad thing, and besides alienating your user base it will not do much.
Alienating your user base is never a good tactic, they will leave.
(People who plan to get WinPhone are most likely people who used WinMo - that was totally open to customization and apps from wherever)
Some developers looked into breaking the security on Nokia's WP7 phones and decided it would be to hard but of course there might be ways to do it anyway and allow custom ROMs. Aside from that Marketplace XAPs originally could be modified to be sideloaded on WP7 but this has changed several months ago, when Microsoft started to encrypt the XAP files.
As for modified firmware Microsoft is using Secure Boot to tackle the problem at a much lower level than Android and iOS devices do. Due to that it might be quite some time before anyone figures out a way to do it. And even phones like the HTC One X have not yet been broken (at least the versions that use Nvidias Tegra 3). It was similar with several Sony devices.
But in the end to enable this on a WP8 device it would mean HSPL, CustomROM and modified XAP-Files to allow for pirated Apps. Comparing this to Android where you only modify the APK and allow sideloading using a Checkbox I believe we will a lot more pirated Apps on Android than on WP.
As for: I want to provide my App for free without using the Marketplace - ähm... what would be the benefit to the user? Aside from Hacks they benefit from the fact that Apps are tested for stability, to be Malware-Free and that you can discover them without too much effort right from your phone.
The only thing I believe you're right is that actually lots of people will go for an OS where they can pirate Apps easily. There are enough threads around here were people tell you upfront that they believe that having paid several 100 $ for a device entitles them to get the software for free.
StevieBallz said:
....
As for: I want to provide my App for free without using the Marketplace - ähm... what would be the benefit to the user? Aside from Hacks they benefit from the fact that Apps are tested for stability, to be Malware-Free and that you can discover them without too much effort right from your phone.
....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, right.
Like we saw on apple store, and the android market.
(you must be either kidding, or naive)
And as for users thinking paying few 100$ for a device and thinking it entitles them for free apps - well -
people became used to having free programs, and there are many good free programs.
Besides that - I do not support software piracy, but I do believe that you should have the freedom to do whatever you want with the device you payed a lot of good money for, and that the manufacturer should not put you behind bars and in chains, just so they can make more profit from you.
And dont think otherwise - they lock the device for the sole reason of taking some percentage of the money you pay for the apps,
and no other reason.
So every app would have to pass through their, and only their checkout point, and bring them more money.
Android market has no certification process while Apple's and Microsoft's does.
I didn't try to imply that you would want it for the reason of pirating Apps but for most people this is the reason they desire that feature.
But in the end we're talking about the rationale for developers and that is where your (paid) Apps are a lot better protected on WP or iOS than on Android. If this actually benefits you in the case of WP is a different discussion due to the fact that your potential market is smaller. But given that even though Android has a much bigger marketshare than iOS by now developers make a lot more money on iOS it seems the closed marketplaces actually benefit developers in that regard.
StevieBallz said:
Android market has no certification process while Apple's and Microsoft's does.
I didn't try to imply that you would want it for the reason of pirating Apps but for most people this is the reason they desire that feature.
But in the end we're talking about the rationale for developers and that is where your (paid) Apps are a lot better protected on WP or iOS than on Android. If this actually benefits you in the case of WP is a different discussion due to the fact that your potential market is smaller. But given that even though Android has a much bigger marketshare than iOS by now developers make a lot more money on iOS it seems the closed marketplaces actually benefit developers in that regard.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The same goes for PC apps.
And people still develop apps for PCs.
This is, in my opinion, some kind of propaganda (not to say brainwash) from the manufacturers,
who's only intent is to make more profit for themselves, and want to recruit the developers for their own goal.
Software piracy have been here since forever, and the software industry has always been growing.
I still hold my opinion that the manufacturer must not have me in chains and behind bars.
I believe the manufacturer must let me do whatever I want with my device.
Let me load whatever apps i want, from any source, and not limit me or force me to pay them more and more money over the life of the device.
I'm not saying that it is not a valid desire to be able to do those things - I said it benefits developers if they are not possible. They don't have to care about piracy that much. And instead of putting together a sophisticated scheme to protect their applications (like they have been doing on the PC for more then a decade) they can concentrate on the actual content.
Do you believe PC games that came on floppy discs asked you about keys from the manual just for fun or to avoid copies? Do you believe the industry moved to CDs only because of the additional space or because they could not be easily copied for quite some time? Does Diablo 3 require an online connection because they could not implement a game that could run on the PC only?
Providing those protections in the OS itself takes a big burden off most developers. The 30 % cut Apple or Microsoft take is a big part of what big companies would earn with their software, given that they already have payment solutions in place and might be able to provide storage and bandwidth cheaper. For Indie developers it would be a lot harder to organize all this.
But instead of answering the question on pirac that thread was about y you're completely missing the point and going on a crusade (and your points from a users perspective definitely are valid).
Apourv said:
Me and my friend, (who is a budding app developer for android) ran into discussion about "Android JB vs WP8", and after many aspects, we came to "developer benefits", there I said that Android is not good for developers bcoz people SIDELOAD app and nothing can detect a pirated app. That's the sad truth.
But on WP8 there's no way to SIDELOAD app, so No piracy of apps on WP8.
My friend said there are WP8 custom ROMS available and WP8 can also be rooted. So there maybe ways when people use Pirated apps on WP8 also.
So who is correct Me or my friend? Are there ways on WP8.
Sent from my GT-S5570 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are no WP8 custom ROMs, only WP7, and only for select devices. As far as I know, app piracy was effectively killed off even for a fully "rooted" WP7 device now that the apps come in an encrypted package. WP8 devices with an SD card can sideload apps, but it's a feature, not an illegal act. You get the encrypted package straight from windowsphone.com, and when you sideload it via SD card, it checks with the marketplace to see if you already own this app and if you have purchased it- otherwise you get the trial.
So android is significantly less secure in this area, your friend is wrong.
StevieBallz said:
I'm not saying that it is not a valid desire to be able to do those things - I said it benefits developers if they are not possible. They don't have to care about piracy that much. And instead of putting together a sophisticated scheme to protect their applications (like they have been doing on the PC for more then a decade) they can concentrate on the actual content.
Do you believe PC games that came on floppy discs asked you about keys from the manual just for fun or to avoid copies? Do you believe the industry moved to CDs only because of the additional space or because they could not be easily copied for quite some time? Does Diablo 3 require an online connection because they could not implement a game that could run on the PC only?
Providing those protections in the OS itself takes a big burden off most developers. The 30 % cut Apple or Microsoft take is a big part of what big companies would earn with their software, given that they already have payment solutions in place and might be able to provide storage and bandwidth cheaper. For Indie developers it would be a lot harder to organize all this.
But instead of answering the question on pirac that thread was about y you're completely missing the point and going on a crusade (and your points from a users perspective definitely are valid).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pretty much this.
As a developer, I love the fact that the WP marketplace protects my app from almost anything a hacker can throw at it, because it protects several aspects I invested in the app:
1) Time. A lot of time. I don't like it when people use what I invested months of research and coding for free, just because they are too lazy to search the marketplace, but are devious enough to google the app and download it from some obscure location (the irony).
2) My intellectual property: I've made the app, therefore I should have complete control over who can download it. How would you feel if you invested a lot in a car, and some random people of the street simply gets in and drives your car away?
3)Coding and researching is certainly not an easy task. If it were, then everyone would be a developer. Pirating my app is like asking me to give away my talents for nothing in return.
Although it is extremely easy for outsiders to judge my app and say it is not worth the money, they really have no idea how much time and effort was put into it. It is a service I provide for you, and as with any service you need to pay for it...upfront or by staring at adds.
Considering that without the OEM I would not be able to create the app at all, and you would not be able to use it either, it is only natural for them to ask a percentage of the profit from the app. It is how business works.
mcosmin222 said:
Pretty much this.
As a developer, I love the fact that the WP marketplace protects my app from almost anything a hacker can throw at it, because it protects several aspects I invested in the app:
1) Time. A lot of time. I don't like it when people use what I invested months of research and coding for free, just because they are too lazy to search the marketplace, but are devious enough to google the app and download it from some obscure location (the irony).
2) My intellectual property: I've made the app, therefore I should have complete control over who can download it. How would you feel if you invested a lot in a car, and some random people of the street simply gets in and drives your car away?
3)Coding and researching is certainly not an easy task. If it were, then everyone would be a developer. Pirating my app is like asking me to give away my talents for nothing in return.
Although it is extremely easy for outsiders to judge my app and say it is not worth the money, they really have no idea how much time and effort was put into it. It is a service I provide for you, and as with any service you need to pay for it...upfront or by staring at adds.
Considering that without the OEM I would not be able to create the app at all, and you would not be able to use it either, it is only natural for them to ask a percentage of the profit from the app. It is how business works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Comparing an App to a car is totally inappropriate.
If someone drove away in your car, you do not have this car anymore.
If someone installed an app you wrote - well, you still have another copy, and can produce a million more copies.
Som30ne said:
Comparing an App to a car is totally inappropriate.
If someone drove away in your car, you do not have this car anymore.
If someone installed an app you wrote - well, you still have another copy, and can produce a million more copies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He has a very simplistic view on piracy, which is what most people who think they're losing something have. It's hard for them to wrap their heads around new concepts like "pirated does not equal lost sales". It's mostly the RIAA's fault that the practice of sharing is deemed amoral and gave it the misnomer: "piracy". Actual sales lost because of piracy are negligible. I'm not saying it's ok for people to just take without paying, I'm saying you need to realize what is actually happening. Most "pirates" are poor students with no money to spare, kids who have no money of their own, and the most numerous "pirate" of all: those who cannot access a store to legally buy the product.
Sent from my Windows 8 device using Board Express Pro
Som30ne said:
The same goes for PC apps.
And people still develop apps for PCs.
This is, in my opinion, some kind of propaganda (not to say brainwash) from the manufacturers,
who's only intent is to make more profit for themselves, and want to recruit the developers for their own goal.
Software piracy have been here since forever, and the software industry has always been growing.
I still hold my opinion that the manufacturer must not have me in chains and behind bars.
I believe the manufacturer must let me do whatever I want with my device.
Let me load whatever apps i want, from any source, and not limit me or force me to pay them more and more money over the life of the device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. And Also, Poecifer, your just the Fandroid, since the discussion was brought ou with no intention to accuse each other party and start a flame war as usual, so just stfu if you don't have anything useful to say.
As a wp developer, i'd like to say that not beeing able to sideload apps freely at times is just a pain in the a**...personally I own a Sony Xperia J and a Lumia 710...my friend is an Android Dev and doesn't have all this kind of limitation...