What causes the SGS to lag and what does the "Lag Fix" actually do?
I think its due to samsung using a slow filesystem (rfs) to be fat32 compatible. Theres some devs working to make a full ext4 rom. Rfs does not allow multi access writing so its slow. Some lag fixes use a ext3/4 partition on external card to buffer writes an and use as swap space. Another method is make a ext2 partition file on your internal 8/16gig user space. I personaly prefer the ext4 external card fix as lag fixes can get damaged as multi writes can wear away nand ram so with that in mind a external card is cheaper to replace then a phone. Right now though im not using any lag fixes but jm6 with stockstrip rom which is hell fast so no lag fixes needed. Ive had bad experiences with all of the fixes with system freezing and doing odd things. Worst case I use auto task killer to help
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ickyboo said:
I think its due to samsung using a slow filesystem (rfs) to be fat32 compatible. Theres some devs working to make a full ext4 rom. Rfs does not allow multi access writing so its slow. Some lag fixes use a ext3/4 partition on external card to buffer writes an and use as swap space. Another method is make a ext2 partition file on your internal 8/16gig user space. I personaly prefer the ext4 external card fix as lag fixes can get damaged as multi writes can wear away nand ram so with that in mind a external card is cheaper to replace then a phone. Right now though im not using any lag fixes but jm6 with stockstrip rom which is hell fast so no lag fixes needed. Ive had bad experiences with all of the fixes with system freezing and doing odd things. Worst case I use auto task killer to help
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Thank you. I think I understand now. I was getting lost in the other threads trying to understand what was going on.
So will Samsung fix this with 2.2 or will they continue with the same file system? Do other manufacturers use this format as well?
No problem. I'm not Samsung so I can't tell you if they are going to fix it or use the Epic 4g fix which is to use a ramdrive, but they should damned well fix it. And as far as I know nothing one else uses the rfs. Beats me why they even use it to begin with
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The current lag-fixes optimize application load times by changing the filesystem for "/data", and with that fix the phone does become a lot more responsive.
With /data optimized, I still notice a pretty bad lag when opening anything database related or cache related, for example: Adding a shortcut to the homescreen takes a good 15 seconds to load the list, I tried the same thing in a Droid X and it's instant... LauncherPro stalls everytime you do something for the first time, and then works ok, it loads animations to the cache so... (write times to cache maybe?)
Any thoughts on this? I haven't done all the research, so these are just my observations. (I've seen this with OneClick lagfix ext2, chainfire's 1.80 ext2 and ext4, and Tayutama's ext2 and ext4, on JM5, 6 and 7).
Another problem I have seen is the low ram lag, as soon as the phone dips under ~70MB of ram it becomes extremely sluggish, I haven't used a single firmware where I don't need autokiller with aggressive settings, again comparing to a nexus one or droid x, those phones work flawlessly with ~30MB free...
I haven't tried the Vooodoo lag fix, does that or any other lag-fix address this issues?
When I was running mimocan, I also moved/symlinked /dalvik-cache and /media to the external ext4 partition. Don't know how much it improved things, though.
Seems like running autokiller really is enough to address the memory management issue, maybe we'll see those settings tweaked in future firmwares.
aeo087 said:
The current lag-fixes optimize application load times by changing the filesystem for "/data", and with that fix the phone does become a lot more responsive.
With /data optimized, I still notice a pretty bad lag when opening anything database related or cache related, for example: Adding a shortcut to the homescreen takes a good 15 seconds to load the list, I tried the same thing in a Droid X and it's instant... LauncherPro stalls everytime you do something for the first time, and then works ok, it loads animations to the cache so... (write times to cache maybe?)
Any thoughts on this? I haven't done all the research, so these are just my observations. (I've seen this with OneClick lagfix ext2, chainfire's 1.80 ext2 and ext4, and Tayutama's ext2 and ext4, on JM5, 6 and 7).
Another problem I have seen is the low ram lag, as soon as the phone dips under ~70MB of ram it becomes extremely sluggish, I haven't used a single firmware where I don't need autokiller with aggressive settings, again comparing to a nexus one or droid x, those phones work flawlessly with ~30MB free...
I haven't tried the Vooodoo lag fix, does that or any other lag-fix address this issues?
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aeo087 said:
The current lag-fixes optimize application load times by changing the filesystem for "/data", and with that fix the phone does become a lot more responsive.
With /data optimized, I still notice a pretty bad lag when opening anything database related or cache related, for example: Adding a shortcut to the homescreen takes a good 15 seconds to load the list, I tried the same thing in a Droid X and it's instant... LauncherPro stalls everytime you do something for the first time, and then works ok, it loads animations to the cache so... (write times to cache maybe?)
Any thoughts on this? I haven't done all the research, so these are just my observations. (I've seen this with OneClick lagfix ext2, chainfire's 1.80 ext2 and ext4, and Tayutama's ext2 and ext4, on JM5, 6 and 7).
Another problem I have seen is the low ram lag, as soon as the phone dips under ~70MB of ram it becomes extremely sluggish, I haven't used a single firmware where I don't need autokiller with aggressive settings, again comparing to a nexus one or droid x, those phones work flawlessly with ~30MB free...
I haven't tried the Vooodoo lag fix, does that or any other lag-fix address this issues?
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Nope, Voodoo doesn't address it either. /dbdata acts strangely if you try to mess with it and seems to cause some strange issues, which is why it has been left out of fixes so far. Plus, /dbdata is on very fast NAND which doesn't suffer so much as the sdcard from RFS.
Low ram lag is probably touchwizz related, or if not touchwizz, than some other badly done Samsung modification. Unfortunately that kind of thing is very hard to find. It could be something completely unrelated though, like a badly made driver that behaves badly when RAM is low.
RyanZA said:
Nope, Voodoo doesn't address it either. /dbdata acts strangely if you try to mess with it and seems to cause some strange issues, which is why it has been left out of fixes so far. Plus, /dbdata is on very fast NAND which doesn't suffer so much as the sdcard from RFS.
Low ram lag is probably touchwizz related, or if not touchwizz, than some other badly done Samsung modification. Unfortunately that kind of thing is very hard to find. It could be something completely unrelated though, like a badly made driver that behaves badly when RAM is low.
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Am I right to say that that lag when adding a shortcut or accessing the list of apps comes from dbdata? why is the phone so slow at pulling up that information? Also, have you seen any performance benefit from optimizing the cache partition?
Given that the samsung froyo update has been delayed another month from what i have heard, i've decided that i might as well use a lagfix until froyo comes along.
Given that there are so many lagfixes, some old some new, and i have no idea which is good and which is new.
Could someone tell me which lagfix works the best?
and if possible also point me to a guide here or out there in the www.
thanks
Voodoo if you are on Eclair. OCLF if you are on Froyo.
But I am not running any from yesterday on my JPH. So far so good. Quadrant 1008.
Trust no one of them fixes... <insert mysterious music>
All the so called Lag Fixes do really work, BUT you might ruin your internal SD card in the process.
If you are willing to take the chance, then by all means go ahead and DO iT the speed increase is really amazing
However... expect your internal SD to die quickly as a result of that.
It's like a drug you know, just the same stuff some athretes takes to get an energy boost at the cost of their health.
AllGamer said:
Trust no one of them fixes...
All the so called Lag Fixes do really work, BUT you might ruin your internal SD card in the process.
If you are willing to take the chance, then by all means go ahead and DO iT the speed increase is really amazing
However... expect your internal SD to die quickly as a result of that.
It's like a drug you know, just the same stuff some athretes takes to get an energy boost at the cost of their health.
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How is it destroying internal sd card ?
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if you search for SD problem here in the forum, all the topics that comes back states they were either using lag fix for a while, installing lag fix, or something else to do with lag fix
So you're trying to say that rfs file system which is reading and writing on sd also isn't destroy the internal sd?
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what ever it's the slow rfs used by Samsung is at least less invasive than the methods we are currently using for the Lag Fixes
i'm not a developer, but if i were to fix what is wrong right now, i'll go with a virtual RAM drive solution.
that's how i configured old win2k servers and Win9x/XP machines
by avoiding write to a real disk it prevented delay, and that improved speed drastically even on low end machines
back in the SGS phone we are stuck with 512 RAM, so wasting more ram on a virtual drive might not be a good idea, but if we even setup a "cache" drive of 128 MB RAM instead of writing to the partitioned internal SD, that will kill 2 birds at once
improve speed and prevent SD write exhaustion
I'm still not yet at the point of being annoyed by the lag, else it would have been a big motivation to implement the idea mentioned above.
the only time i get lag is when i install 2 ore more Android Apps from Market simultaneously, like when there are updates for 5 or more products and you click OK on all of them.
normal daily operations has not shown any delay at all.
my only trick is i prevent any unwanted background services from starting with the phone.
i use the original lag fix that adds a logical link from /data/data to /dbdata.. have not read this causing any problems with corrupt sd cards as it is not changing partition type or anything.. the only drawback is the size is limited.. but as long as you dont install huge games i have over 100 apps with no problems ie..
not as high benchmarks as some of the others (but i belive they are artificial anyway) and the phone is fast and hardly ever lags..
try running k9-mail without it and it takes about 5 minutes to go through all my mailboxes versus about 30 sec.
C:\galaxy>cat speedtweak.sh
#!/system/bin/sh
## this script is made by deckcard##
## clean up csc folder
echo
echo Speed tweaks that move data from mmc to nand
echo
echo busybox cp -rp /data/data /dbdata >> /sdcard/1.sh
echo mv /data/data /data/data.bak >> /sdcard/1.sh
echo ln -s /dbdata/data /data/data >> /sdcard/1.sh
echo reboot >> /sdcard/1.sh
su</sdcard/1.sh
rm /sdcard/1.sh
theres tons of different fixes, some are better than others, but its all personal preference...and also, some of them just improve your quadrant score and not real life performance.
Hi
As you know Samsung Galaxy S (i9000) has one internal flash memory ( 8 or 16 GB) but it is separated as two parts for acting like ROM and the other one is for internal memory...
Mine is 8 GB version. 2 GB is for ROM and the rest( 6GB) is for internal memory. Therefore,this artificial separating causes lagging... I know there are some solution about lagging. However the real problem is still remains.
I think the real solution is not separating internal flash memory . Internal memory should remain one part not two!...
Samsung's point of view can be profitable. But I think it is the cheapest solution!... Samsung's view!!! causes lagging problem!...
So my question : Is there any way to merge internal memory?
Thanx
No, the partitioning itself doesn't cause lag, it's a combination of the RFS filesystem and the MoviNAND controller that causes the lag. You clearly need to do some more reading in the development forum.
It needs to be partitioned in any case though because when the internal SD card is mounted over usb, it is dismounted from the android system. Any apps or data stored in /data would then be inaccessible, causing errors.
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I know roughly about RFS and MoviNAND controller. What happens if there is a discrete ROM and 8 (16) GB internal flash memory. You think there wont be any difference (I/O performans etc.) ?
i would certainly like to try and use the full 16 GB as a single system partition instead of the current 2GB + 14GB model
then i can finally load up my full GPS maps into it without having to swap files in and out of the 2 partitions
In Windows world, even in Linux when a single HDD is partitioned in 2 or more chunks, it performs slower.
even though this is a flash disk (it supposed to be unaffected) I'm speculating something similar might be happening in the back end and it causes extra work to system to handle partition 1 vs partition 0
If anyone could help me out here I will love you LONG time:
I am wondering id I should set up a swap partition and use it with this script (apps/data 2 ext, supports swap). I am starting fresh on my Nexus One installing a Gingerbread MIUI ROM using this script for the first time. I was wondering if I should use a SWAP with my class 4 16gig sd card. I will have a 1gb EXT partition. If anyone could state simple pros/cons I would MUCH appreciate it. I have heard good but mostly bad about swap on gingerbread saying that it is not needed and can cause bad.
Does the N1 really need SWAP with Gingerbread? I'm shaking in my pants posting this but I have not seen any related articles, let alone for the N1. I have done a Google search but that doesn't help, it confused me more if it is worth it.
Thanks again. Deuces.
There are some comments from experienced users here on swap, most are against. Here is a link that has a lot of comments--
http://zerocredibility.wordpress.com/2009/08/24/why-android-swap-doesnt-make-sense/
I am no android tech, but never used and don't have issues. I run a lot of apps over a hundred from the Market alone
Thanks! Exactly what I needed. No SWAP for me!
Glad to help--
I'm no expert either. But I do have a 256MB swap partition.
Swap *should* only be used when physical memory is low, and more is still needed by the system. If you're low on memory and need more, then swap might be useful then.
There's a kernel setting called "swappiness". I have this set to a low setting "5", which I believe means that swap should only be used as a last resort i.e. more importance is put on using physical memory over swap.
Yes swap is slower. If a system is swapping out, then it's logical to add more physical memory to the system. However as we cannot upgrade physical memory on our phones, so I suppose swap is the next best thing.
Anyhow that's just my personal thinking. My Nexus is running sweet and I don't notice any considerable slowdowns. However perhaps my swap has never really been required?!
Swap is made for desktop OS, where there is such thing as "lack of memory".
Such thing doesn't exist on Android, mobile OS of completely different design.
The reason is - desktop OS can't kill the tasks you've left running. Mobile OS can, and will, once it senses that it needs more memory. And the tasks themselves are built to be killed.
Adding SWAP is fooling Android that it has more actual memory than there really is - and the OS is using it like it was real memory, not killing tasks when it should. And while doing that, SWAP is far slower than just killing and reloading tasks - because it requires writing to and reading from the SWAP partition the whole app, while when killing and loading it, only reading is required - making the process MUCH faster.
I believe that's the essence of the earlier reference.
Shortly, unless there is severe lack of RAM (and on N1 there isn't by any parameters) - SWAP will make things worse, not better.
By activating compcache (~18% should do), and kernel samepage merging, there is no need for swap. I think texasice confirmed this, although I am not sure.
Sent from my Nexus One using Tapatalk
I would never use swap for GB. Tough there is discussion of using it on ICS, the few times I have tried it I did not use it.
I used swap a long time ago on CM6 or early 7 and there was absolutely no benefit in my opinion. Doesn't swap force more read/write times on SD which can decrease the life as well? That's just my $0.02.
TheAndroidStop said:
I used swap a long time ago on CM6 or early 7 and there was absolutely no benefit in my opinion. Doesn't swap force more read/write times on SD which can decrease the life as well? That's just my $0.02.
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Swap isn't useful when it's not being used, and FroYo or Gingerbread hardly uses that much RAM. ICS, however, with its full hardware acceleration, is a real memory hog. Now, though, if we enable kernel samepage merging and a zram amount of like 18%, we wouldn't need a swap partition. Like it's been said before, swap is very slow, much slower than actual RAM.
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Swap seems as use full as a taskiller in Android....
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Hello, does not swap hard Android phone for auxiliary memory damage the hard?
I'm thoroughly confused, i'm getting low storage notifications, BUT I can't even see what it's related to...
From root explorer:
/datadata is 143MB used 278MB free
/data is 529MB used 962MB free
In the apps menu
Internal is 429MB used 1GB free
SD card 2.8GB used 2.9GB free
RAM 280MB used 129MB free
In about phone
ive got access to 409MB memory.
So at which point is anything there to be alarmed about storage/RAM wise!? I'm confused! I've read into datadata fix and few other options, but there seems to be enough free to go around to not cause any issues surely?
Cheers for any help
Hi - i got same thing with slimbean.. i dont think it caused an issue as i would only get on boot, i'm back on cm 10.1 for the moment though
leperousdust said:
I'm thoroughly confused, i'm getting low storage notifications, BUT I can't even see what it's related to...
From root explorer:
/datadata is 143MB used 278MB free
/data is 529MB used 962MB free
In the apps menu
Internal is 429MB used 1GB free
SD card 2.8GB used 2.9GB free
RAM 280MB used 129MB free
In about phone
ive got access to 409MB memory.
So at which point is anything there to be alarmed about storage/RAM wise!? I'm confused! I've read into datadata fix and few other options, but there seems to be enough free to go around to not cause any issues surely?
Cheers for any help
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See HERE if this helps you
micks_address said:
Hi - i got same thing with slimbean.. i dont think it caused an issue as i would only get on boot, i'm back on cm 10.1 for the moment though
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I wasnt sure if it was just a boot thing or not because i dont get constant notifications, but the phone does seem sluggish.... Then again i've just switched from my nexus 4 back to my i9000. My expectations might be a little skewed!
And I've used datafix in the past, I've not tried it yet, but i fail to see how it would help if i've got space?
It's something about the funny partitions the AOSP roms are using. They set a whole load of partitions and define which stuff should go to which partition, so it's a huge pain the *** to try and figure out which of them is full. Using the datafix "relaxes" the partitions, thus giving your phone more room to fit stuff in. This is not an accurate explanation of what's actually going on, but it's close enough.