Database Develop

Vulcan FlipStart - Mini PC, Mini Review

You're all no doubt absolutely delighted that you get the first review I'm writing of the Vulcan FlipStart V1.0! For those of you who aren't aware of this little device, it originated with the (often called "vapourware" MiniPC of 2004, demonstrated by Paul Allen). The concept has been refined massively, and is now on sale in the US for $1999 with the following specification:
Pentium M @ 1.1GHz
512MB RAM (not expandable)
Intel 915 graphics; 64MB Unified Memory Architecture
30GB HD (having spoken to the designers, at present this is all that will fit)
5.6" screen at 1024 x 600 pixel (220dpi) resolution
Webcam (VGA, I suspect)
Keyboard, trackpad and touchpoint
802.11b/g WiFi
Bluetooth 2.0
EV-DO cellular data connection
Windows XP Professional SP2
Additional features include media keys and an InfoPane; a secondary display of cellphone-like quality on the rear of the clamshell case which displays email, contacts, appointments etc. without opening the PC.
As shipped, the device comes with a large capacity battery, port replicator (providing Ethernet, Power, USB x 2, VGA and audio), small carry case and a screen wipe, plus the PSU to charge it.
Optional accessories are the slimline battery, a high-end leather case, chargers, and potentially high resolution camera or other devices connecting to a top-mounted expansion port (looks like it is USB but not a USB connector, just wire pads ready for devices using USB protocols).
It's really very hard to describe JUST how small this computer is. Most UMPCs are 7" screen, tablet or sliding tablet devices. Flipstart is a clamshell, and a very rugged feeling one at that. Finished in a fetching dark blue metallic with the distinctive InfoPane and slding metal "FlipStart" cover plate, the closed device is comparable to HTC's Athena, perhaps 3% or so larger. It can be slipped into the back pocket of your jeans with the slimline battery fitted, for example.
Opening the FlipStart reveals a thumb-type keyboard of moderate quality and good spacing; it has a backlight which is pleasant and even, and some handy quick access keys to zoom the screen, open the FlipStart navigator application, control media, and access the task manager. The shift keys are curiously large - you are expected to use your thumbs to type, and by placing the keys accurately and providing a large target, shifting with one hand whilst typing with the other is comfortable. Takes a while to adjust to this method, but it works very well.
Above the keyboard, from left to right, are two mouse buttons, a cursor pad with Page up/down, home and End functions, power keys, a small trackpad and a thumbstick-type device. The trackpad even has software to enable or disable tapping and tapzones, something woefully lacking on many fullsize laptops that assume you WANT to tap; pleasantly, this one has the right balance so tapping works without being obtrusive. The thumbstick device is very quick and convenient, but using the two as appropriate makes this a snappy PC to get around.
Of course, a touchscreen would be better, and when using the device with the Ameo the instinct to grab the stylus and tap the XP screen was very strong. A touchscreen would add depth and reduce the clarity of the insanely high resolution display, however.
Being in the UK, I am unable to test the EV-DO function, but the WiFi and Bluetooth work well - connecting "on the road" was painlessly accomplished via Bluetooth PAN and the Ameo on T-Mobile's 3G network.
Being a fully functional PC it runs PC applications. I've yet to find anything it can't handle, with the obvious caveat that I am applying common sense here and not trying stupid games, or HD video editing suites, or high-end desktop image editing applications.
Oh...
Wait, I did try that last one. It's running Photoshop CS3 adequately; let's say, CS3 on this is snappier (and obviously more capable and vastly more expensive) than Pocket Artist. Lightroom also runs well enough to use despite the FlipStart's display being relatively low pixel resolution for Adobe's recommendations. I'm tempted to try InDesign on it purely for the amusement of doing DTP on a pocket-sized computer - I have little doubt that it will be possible. The LCD's viewing angle is very critical in terms of tilt, but when you get it right the colour and evenness of the backlight is impressive; I wouldn't trust it for critical colour work, but it's certainly alright for previewing and basic adjustments or editing.
Quake 3 was included as a demo and at the default 640 x 480 resolution, was quite playable with an external keyboard/mouse combination.
All this CPU power comes with a cost, of course. Heat and power drain. The FlipStart features a little visible vent alongside the port replicator, and frankly, you'll love it if you ever get stuck in the frozen North with one; it's pretty warm! The fan is louder and more insistent than the dual fans in my XPS M2010 - which is really logical, given the large airspace available in the Dell. FlipStart's CPU is amongst the better ones you'll find in a "UMPC" device, most of the Origami/tablet type units sporting Geode or VIA CPUs. Sony's UX-series has more MHZ, but is larger and costs more.
Battery life is around 3-6 hours with the bulkier "extended" (actually standard) battery, and a mere one and a half hours with the slimline battery. Charging is via a small and delicate looking jackplug - given the amount of charging this device needs, I'd like to have seen a contact-based charging solution like a dock. No provision is made for this, the port replicator clips on and isn't significantly better in terms of wear and tear - plus, you'll want it with you to have access to the 2 flat USB ports. The standard USB port is under the hinge for the display, and bulkier items like memory sticks may not fit.
Overall, the FlipStart is a surprisingly usable "marvel of the modern age" - not only does it convincingly demonstrate just HOW much power you can cram into a small package, but outside of that demonstration, you can run serious applications on it. With remote desktop for the fiddlier file management, or an external display and keyboard/mouse, it's a perfectly functional computer - and if you have good eyesight, the display might not be an issue for extended use. The robust physical design points at a device designed for real world use, instead of geektoy chic - and as such the flexibility of it makes it a lot 'cooler' than you'd initially expect. As the Ameo has demonstrated, there's an upper limit to the size of device that you want to carry about, and this really does stay within it where larger UMPCs may fall foul of the "never take it anywhere" problem that also held back the better Handheld PC machines.
And on that note, that's where this device sits, in my opinion. This is the 21st century "Handheld PC", whereas Origami in the purest form - the tablets - are more confused about their purpose. Are they computers, or just powerful media players?
Having seen the games performance of this, I can envisage devices like it in 3 or 4 years time for high-end mobile gaming, where keyboards are replaced by game controllers, and titles like Gears of War or World of Warcraft can be made truly portable with no loss of quality over their PC or high-end console counterparts. With a desktop OS, and a port replicator, they could even be used for real work. The question is, would the costs come down sufficiently if they sold in large numbers?
At a good $800 or so premium over the HTC Athena, itself one of the most expensive WM consumer devices around, you'll need a good use for it to justify owning it. In isolation, though, FlipStart comes VERY close to bringing true desktop computing power to the genuinely "pocket sized" device. And this is just version 1.0...
One of the nicest aspects of the FlipStart is the contining number of "surprise and delight" features. For example, the zoom key is inherently a bit clever, zooming the window you are looking at to fill the screen, but you can also quickly adjust the zoom level by holding the key and using the scroll wheel. Is this a standard UMPC-like feature? It's really neat! I've never used a screen so sharp and small, yet so comfortable to work on before.
(Pictures will follow eventually, but there are plenty around if you Google!).

Pogo Connector Pin-out

Hi. I've followed the Pogo Charger thread looking for pin-out info on the Nexus 10 pogo connector. No posts on the actual pin-out. I did learn about the 'polimeter', but I digress.
I've done some probing around and have some preliminary info on the connector to share. I used a Fluke 189 dvm and a Tektronix 2252 scope.
First order is to identify pin 1. I'm assuming that when viewing the connector with the screen up, pin 1 is on the left.
Pins 1 and 6 are ground. Zero resistance between the two.
Pin 2 is a control pin. Open circuit voltage is 1.12 V. If you pull it down with a 1.5K ohm (minimum) resistor momentarily and let it go up, the Nexus 10 powers on. (Discovering that was good for excitement ...) Once powered on, if you pull it down again, Nexus goes into clock mode. Obviously meant for a dock. Don't know if this pin does other tricks. Note that the picture of the pogo charger connector shows pin 2 missing.
No clues about pins 3-5. One is obviously +5 for charging. But I'm not ready to apply power to unknown pins yet. Seems to me that since there's a charger floating around, it would be better to wait for someone to check out its pins.
Pins 3-5 are near ground level. No pull-ups, clocks, etc.
I had no luck finding audio on any of the pins. There might be a control function that mutes the Nexus speakers and enables audio. Or it might happen when you supply charging power.
I hope that there are some brave souls out there that could help identify more pins. The charger is the most important because it might enable other pins.
Murray

Usually, with these SOCs, varying resistances between the control pin and ground can cause you to enter various modes, such as download mode on other Samsung devices, along with countless other modes, dock, speaker dock, etc.
If we could get some ultra high resolution teardown photos, I could work out the charging pins.
My pins should be here in a couple of weeks too, so I can start making my pogo charger.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

The hi-res photo is a good idea, but I don't think it's going work here. Take a look at the logic board in the teardown at
www dot powerbookmedic dot com/wordpress/2012/11/16/google-nexus-10-take-apart-first-look.
(Sorry, but the site isn't letting me insert a proper URL because I'm a new guy ...)
The dock cable connector is the one on the lower right diagonal from the SoC. Judging from the size of the passive components, it looks like the power management circuit is above the connector just to the right of the processor. Here's the problem: the top of the board has a power/ground plane that hides all of the traces from the connector.

alias_neo said:
Usually, with these SOCs, varying resistances between the control pin and ground can cause you to enter various modes, such as download mode on other Samsung devices, along with countless other modes, dock, speaker dock, etc.
If we could get some ultra high resolution teardown photos, I could work out the charging pins.
My pins should be here in a couple of weeks too, so I can start making my pogo charger.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
alias_neo - Any progress on the pin out or your pogo charger?

8008Hacker said:
alias_neo - Any progress on the pin out or your pogo charger?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Friday not, haven't been home much, working late to finish up before Christmas, so by the time I been getting home I'm collapsed.
Will probably get started and finished with it over Christmas holiday.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

alias_neo said:
Friday not, haven't been home much, working late to finish up before Christmas, so by the time I been getting home I'm collapsed.
Will probably get started and finished with it over Christmas holiday.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll have mine by then and I plan on ripping it apart the day I get it and figuring out the proper pins for charging...

tpayne1 said:
I'll have mine by then and I plan on ripping it apart the day I get it and figuring out the proper pins for charging...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just as importantly, see what the ID pin is connected to (if anything?) and which two pins are connected for data (which, since it has 5 pins, I assume it does data too).

according to this site 2 pins are for data transfer and 2 pins are for audio (left and right).

BuGGr said:
according to this site 2 pins are for data transfer and 2 pins are for audio (left and right).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Apparently you haven't read anything in this thread, which completely nullifies that speculation page completely.
3 pins are already known...that leaves 3....we have 1 for power...that leaves 2....can't have data AND audio...

I did, but I forgot about the dock pin. maybe some pins have a multi purpose of some sort.
a spec sheet from samsung would be ideal but I guess that will never happen.

After not seeing any interesting signals on the pogo pins a few weeks ago, I decided to look at the software. The kernel file ".../arch/arm/mach-exynos/board-manta-pogo.c" gives a lot of clues about the pogo connector. This post has some of my initial findings. I have to preface this rather long post by saying that although I've done embedded h/w and s/w for decades, I've never done an embedded Linux system and my knowledge of the Exynos gpio came from a few hours with the 911 page Exynos 4412 User's Manual. Please feel free to critique/correct anything said here.
The good news is that the code defines much of what the dock can do. It is more complex than I would have thought. Obviously the code doesn't define how the gpio connects to the pogo pins. Looks like some may connect directly, but others go through external logic, like the audio MUX mentioned below.
Here is an overview of the dock interface:
- The dock circuitry triggers an interrupt during docking/undocking. The interrupt triggers software debouncing of a gpio input to determine the dock state: UNDOCKED, UNSTABLE, DOCKED.
- I couldn't find an ADC input. This means that its unlikely that an external resistor can set various doc states based its value as others have postulated.
- The N10 uses one pin for a bi-directional data interface. It uses a non-standard protocol that bit-bangs MFM-encoded short command-response messages. When the dock is "acquired" (i.e., connected with stable signals), it sends an ID address and DOCK_VERSION constants. This probably tells the dock which features are supported by the device. Looks like the N10 can tell if its a Samsung dock based on the response message. Haven't followed the trail to find out other command functions.
- The audio interface is SPDIF, not analog or USB as others have predicted. Makes good sense as SPDIF requires only one pin. The reason that I didn't see SPDIF when I scoped the pogo pins is that the audio gets turned on and off. One other wrinkle: the audio pin is being multiplexed with another function. The mux logic looks like it's external to the cpu.
- The code sets the power status to one of four states: NONE, 500MA, 1A, and 2A.
- The code has several interfaces to the USB interface. For example, it controls power to the vbus line.
Suggests that it might support OTG on the dock.
Based on this, here is a SWAG on what the pin-out might be. We know we've got 2 ground and 1 charging pin. Let's assume that pin 2 is the interrupt pin. The two remaining pins might be multiplexed: in one state, the pins are the proprietary command interface and the SPDIF out; in the other state they are the USB d pins.
I'll continue reading the code to refine what I've seen. It would be great if some of the kernel devs could jump in and confirm some of this. I'm not comfortable in this environment yet. If I were, I'd be running the code under the debugger to see what happens when pin 2 is stimulated.
To me the data interface is the most exciting. The protocol should be hackable to extend the command set for use with custom docks. Want the docked N10 to turn on the table lamp when the alarm goes off? No problem. I'm sure that there are lots of ways that this could be used. Open source docks maybe?

8008Hacker said:
After not seeing any interesting signals on the pogo pins a few weeks ago, I decided to look at the software. The kernel file ".../arch/arm/mach-exynos/board-manta-pogo.c" gives a lot of clues about the pogo connector. This post has some of my initial findings. I have to preface this rather long post by saying that although I've done embedded h/w and s/w for decades, I've never done an embedded Linux system and my knowledge of the Exynos gpio came from a few hours with the 911 page Exynos 4412 User's Manual. Please feel free to critique/correct anything said here.
The good news is that the code defines much of what the dock can do. It is more complex than I would have thought. Obviously the code doesn't define how the gpio connects to the pogo pins. Looks like some may connect directly, but others go through external logic, like the audio MUX mentioned below.
Here is an overview of the dock interface:
- The dock circuitry triggers an interrupt during docking/undocking. The interrupt triggers software debouncing of a gpio input to determine the dock state: UNDOCKED, UNSTABLE, DOCKED.
- I couldn't find an ADC input. This means that its unlikely that an external resistor can set various doc states based its value as others have postulated.
- The N10 uses one pin for a bi-directional data interface. It uses a non-standard protocol that bit-bangs MFM-encoded short command-response messages. When the dock is "acquired" (i.e., connected with stable signals), it sends an ID address and DOCK_VERSION constants. This probably tells the dock which features are supported by the device. Looks like the N10 can tell if its a Samsung dock based on the response message. Haven't followed the trail to find out other command functions.
- The audio interface is SPDIF, not analog or USB as others have predicted. Makes good sense as SPDIF requires only one pin. The reason that I didn't see SPDIF when I scoped the pogo pins is that the audio gets turned on and off. One other wrinkle: the audio pin is being multiplexed with another function. The mux logic looks like it's external to the cpu.
- The code sets the power status to one of four states: NONE, 500MA, 1A, and 2A.
- The code has several interfaces to the USB interface. For example, it controls power to the vbus line.
Suggests that it might support OTG on the dock.
Based on this, here is a SWAG on what the pin-out might be. We know we've got 2 ground and 1 charging pin. Let's assume that pin 2 is the interrupt pin. The two remaining pins might be multiplexed: in one state, the pins are the proprietary command interface and the SPDIF out; in the other state they are the USB d pins.
I'll continue reading the code to refine what I've seen. It would be great if some of the kernel devs could jump in and confirm some of this. I'm not comfortable in this environment yet. If I were, I'd be running the code under the debugger to see what happens when pin 2 is stimulated.
To me the data interface is the most exciting. The protocol should be hackable to extend the command set for use with custom docks. Want the docked N10 to turn on the table lamp when the alarm goes off? No problem. I'm sure that there are lots of ways that this could be used. Open source docks maybe?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've also been looking through the kernel today and my findings were the same.
Looks to me like the pogo can do USB data, SPDIF, and/or power for charging.

dalingrin said:
I've also been looking through the kernel today and my findings were the same.
Looks to me like the pogo can do USB data, SPDIF, and/or power for charging.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the confirmation.

I love this thread. This sort of intelligent, collaborative discussion is what these forums used to contain back in the good old days (when all of this were fields etc.). I'm fascinated to learn how you guys are able to probe and deconstruct the software and hardware to discover the inner workings of these amazing machines.

8008Hacker said:
I couldn't find an ADC input. This means that its unlikely that an external resistor can set various doc states based its value as others have postulated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's possible dock state is triggered using binary pulses. I seem to remember the Nexus One dock used this method. The N1 docks also had audio out jacks which actually connected to the phone using a private bluetooth pairing.
8008Hacker said:
We know we've got 2 ground and 1 charging pin. Let's assume that pin 2 is the interrupt pin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was looking through the documentation on the Atmel ATtiny series microprocessors Here, specifically, the amount of functions available on each pin. Is it possible that one of the ground pins is actually the interrupt pin and is currently pulled low until a voltage is present on the vcc pin?
Keep up the good work

skally said:
It's possible dock state is triggered using binary pulses. I seem to remember the Nexus One dock used this method.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It does. The dock code maintains several states. Docked, power state, audio state, usb state, etc. Some of them are affected by the command/response channel I mentioned. This channel uses binary pulses on the pogo connector.
skally said:
The N1 docks also had audio out jacks which actually connected to the phone using a private bluetooth pairing..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The N10 uses SPDIF, a well-known protocol for transmitting CD-quality audio in stereo or 5.1 surround sound. Good choice by Sammy, imho
skally said:
I was looking through the documentation on the Atmel ATtiny series microprocessors Here, specifically, the amount of functions available on each pin...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a real fan of the Atmel AT devices and have done a lot of projects with them. The Exynos has even more options on its I/O pins. Take a look at the manual.
skally said:
Is it possible that one of the ground pins is actually the interrupt pin and is currently pulled low until a voltage is present on the vcc pin?..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't think so. There's zero resistance between them. Having two grounds is actually a safety feature. Note that the grounds are on both ends of the connectors. This ensures that one of the grounds connects first before other signals no matter how the device is mechanically skewed as it docks. Prevents ESD (electro-static damage) to the interface.

could it be used for a keyboard or so?

I'm all for open source and reverse engineering but doesn't it seem like this is something that Nexus could just make a diagram available for? I don't get why this is something the community if left to figure out.

jerryp7 said:
I'm all for open source and reverse engineering but doesn't it seem like this is something that Nexus could just make a diagram available for? I don't get why this is something the community if left to figure out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well,
The pogo technology as with the rest of the hardware in the nexus devices isn't open hardware, it's proprietary for someone, they probably don't want to share it except with licensed partners making hardware.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

alias_neo said:
Well,
The pogo technology as with the rest of the hardware in the nexus devices isn't open hardware, it's proprietary for someone, they probably don't want to share it except with licensed partners making hardware.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That makes sense. Thanks.

HowTo: Wake car mounted Nexus 7 from sleep without power button (2002 Mustang)

I have looked high and low for a way to turn on my Nexus7 without using the power button while it is in sleep mode.
The reason is because i am putting my tablet in my 2002 Mustang GT to replace the stock radio. Once installed , the power, and volume buttons are no longer accessible. I have bought an AMP and use the remote volume knob to adjust the volume. Next my issue was getting the tablet to wake from sleep.
After some serious thinking, i have found a way.
This does not require flashing,hacking, taking the tablet apart to rewire ANYTHING.
What i am going to do is connect the charging cord to a secondary cigarette lighter, then plug in a USB adapter.
On the power side of the secondary cigarette lighter connect a toggle switch. (The secondary cigarette lighter will be hidden behind the tablet)
Mount the cool looking toggle switch somewhere in the car where it is easily accessible.
When you want to wake the table, and or charge it, turn on the toggle switch. (This SHOULD work with any tablet)
You may want to download an app to put the tablet to sleep for when getting out of your car.
If anyone else tries this please let me know how it worked out for you.

LOL
A great solution to a unique problem.
Let's see pics when you are done dash mounting your N7.

I still have to cut out a small piece of the dash to allow room for the charging cable. That will be done tomorrow, along with a better video. I just wanted to show my progress.
Copy and paste link.
youtu.be/1psLH24ZsiE

Here is another video i made during the day, and after it was all mounted.
Copy & Paste.
youtu.be/P89paX9fcYw

Here's a thought, couldn't you just wave a little magnet over the bottom right part of the nexus screen? This should wake it up just as if you were opening a cover.

fangthorn said:
Here's a thought, couldn't you just wave a little magnet over the bottom right part of the nexus screen? This should wake it up just as if you were opening a cover.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that is a good idea, that doesn't help with charging.
I personally would want the battery in the tablet to cycle threw its charges instead of always staying connected. (in case i ever wanted to take the tablet out)

Thanks for the videos. Looks like quite the fun project. You did some great work there.

RumoredNow said:
Thanks for the videos. Looks like quite the fun project. You did some great work there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks RoumoredNow. Its still a work in progress.
1. Better mounting of the tablet.
2. Add DC 4 port USB hub.
3. Add front and rear cameras.
4. Add 2 Standard USB connections built into the dash. (for passengers to charge there phone or play threw the audio system)
5. Another AMP
6. Replace the stock 8 speakers.
7. Add Sub-woofer.
8. Anything else i may think of, or suggestions i may like.

This is just an update to anyone wanting to mount there tablet in a mustang.
I have found that a simple piece of plywood does the job well. the area to mount a tablet in a mustang (without cutting up the dash) is about the same thickness as the tablet.
So using a piece of plywood, you can screw it to the BACKSIDE of the stereo mounting bracket. A couple of pieces of Velcro added to the plywood and tablet will keep it centered and in place while putting the radio bezel back on.
The Velcro also added cushion and a space filler to snug the tablet up to the radio bezel.
See images.

Just remember that baking a tablet in a car all of the time _will_ destroy the battery, and rather fast. Maybe that's fine. Just warning you.
As for turning the device off. If you have bluetooth in the car or something, you could use Tasker to watch for the BT device. When it goes away, start a timer, maybe 30 minutes or something, then shut down. That way quick runs into the store or it's not powered off/rebooting etc. There are many posts on this exact same subject in this exact sub-forum... Nexus 7 seems to be popular for cooking in vehicles for some reason.
But yes, the "unplug it from the power" solution is always the solution. Using a "pretty" switch is one way to do it. Some cars have lighter ports which are only powered when the car is powered, but I know mine are hot all of the time and a lot of cars these days are.

Use mKernel and a ROM that supports it and you can use the double tap to wake function, works great on my tablet, just tap the screen twice to wake it up.

U can use timur's kernel, And a otg-y cable, so when power unplug nexus go on stand by, And when plug power nexus start.
That rom is created Just for car installation.
Inviato dal mio Nexus 7 utilizzando Tapatalk

**EDIT: The ebay item i bought below does not fit well in the nexus7.
While it does fit, and does charge, it is loose and sometimes gives a bad connection then disables charging. I suggest to NOT buy it for a nexus7.
I just wanted to update that i have got my OTG cable for my nexus7 (2012) and it works great with timur's rom. Here is a link to the 1 i bought from a USA seller.
I have used a 16gig USB stick with it for testing till i get a larger 1.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=111423491796

A couple of things i wanted to point out about having a toggle switch connected to wake my tablet.
PROS:
1st. This will allow you to charge the tablet when your not in your car.
2nd. Your car does NOT have to be running or in accessory mode to charge your tablet.
3rd. Depending on how you wire your amp, you can still listen to music on your tablet when the accessory is off.
4th. You can still use ftp, AirDroid, ES File Explorer, ect.. (As im typing this, i'm transferring over 600 songs to my tablet in the car.)
CONS:
1st. Tablet does not wake when switch is moved to accessory mode. (toggle switch must be pressed)
There may be more cons, but i haven't found any related to my setup yet.
I'll add to this as i run across PROS and CONS.

my sETP N HELP PLEASE
02sonicblue said:
A couple of things i wanted to point out about having a toggle switch connected to wake my tablet.
PROS:
1st. This will allow you to charge the tablet when your not in your car.
2nd. Your car does NOT have to be running or in accessory mode to charge your tablet.
3rd. Depending on how you wire your amp, you can still listen to music on your tablet when the accessory is off.
4th. You can still use ftp, AirDroid, ES File Explorer, ect.. (As im typing this, i'm transferring over 600 songs to my tablet in the car.)
CONS:
1st. Tablet does not wake when switch is moved to accessory mode. (toggle switch must be pressed)
There may be more cons, but i haven't found any related to my setup yet.
I'll add to this as i run across PROS and CONS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i have it set up with my acc line just connected to my ligheter cable and when ever i turn off ignition my tablet turns off and goes on airplane mode.. what i did was i bough a usb addapet that conects to positive n negative line. outputs 2 amps.. its located in the glove box ran the wire through the back and its pluges to the tablet.. so when i turn on the switch the table goes out of airplane mode, turns on my wifi (Wifi Teher) and Bluetoot (For bluetooth gps reciever) and lastly plays my music. . very pleased with the process.. now im hving one issue wich im trying to fix.. since i have booth bluetooth and wifi my tablet seems to drain more battery than it charges... im running c-rom 4.4.4 and i was looking into tfinding a fast charge. if anyone can help me setup fast charge please let me know and good luck. im pretty good with electrical in case you need any help..
****VERY IMPORTANT OPINION*****
I RECOMEND YOU SET A FUSE BEHIND EVERY WIRE TAP YOU MAKE, I HAD TO REPLACE MY ENTIRE WIRING HARNEST DUE TO A SHORTAGE.. SO A FUSE WOULD JUST BLOW AND NOT CAUSE SHORTAGE> :good::cyclops:

This post is old but I still have problems. Anyone had luck or did you just threw away your old and got a new model instead?

yattamove said:
This post is old but I still have problems. Anyone had luck or did you just threw away your old and got a new model instead?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got everything set up perfectly let me know if you need any help
Sent from my Nexus 7 using XDA Free mobile app

Good project! Have you tried timur's kernel yet? Maybe it will solve your problem.

yattamove said:
Good project! Have you tried timur's kernel yet? Maybe it will solve your problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing im using 4.4.4 rom and I believe timurs kernal is only for 2013 version of nexus 7. (Might be wrong) what I ended up doing is making a switch wich in case my battery dieson the tablet I can turn on the switch and charge the tablet over night even when the car is off..
Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Free mobile app

egren58 said:
The thing im using 4.4.4 rom and I believe timurs kernal is only for 2013 version of nexus 7. (Might be wrong) what I ended up doing is making a switch wich in case my battery dieson the tablet I can turn on the switch and charge the tablet over night even when the car is off..
Sent from my GT-I9505 using XDA Free mobile app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have 2 nexus7 (2012) models. My first one, i had timurs USB ROM for Nexus 7
I never could get it to fast charge even when fast charging was turned on. i was backing up my music and the rom went into a boot loop while it was backing up. So i tried to clear the cache and that didn't help. i then tried to revert back to factory (4.4.4) and i bricked it. It was hung at writing the bootloader. So i left it all nite while i went to bed and the battery died.
My 2nd tablet i left stock (i haven't even tried rooting it yet).

[RESEARCH] External touch screen instead of AA head unit

Seeing videos of people integrating Raspberry Pis into their cars with OpenAuto got me interested in Android Auto. There is one thing I don't like about it, however: you're just adding another device to pass on audio/video/touch to an external display, from the phone. Why not cut out the middle man?
Back in the good old days of my Xperia S, phones had a dedicated micro-HDMI output. Delicous 60fps 720p (and even 1080p, with the UI drawn at 720p, but for instance video playback in full 1080p), and a free charging/OTG port. However, nowadays, we're stuck with MHL, and unless you have a Samsung phone, which has a proprietary connector, you can't use MHL and OTG at the same time, nor does MHL properly support touch functionality (only in theory), so we need the OTG.
DisplayLink to the rescue. We're going to sacrifice a lot of display smoothness/responsiveness here unless you have a modern phone with a USB 3.0 Type-C port (so you can use a newer high performance DisplayLink adapter), but we can use an OTG hub to get both HID touch functionality and HDMI through the DisplayLink adapter at the same time. More on this later. Also, I originally bought a $6 USB to HDMI adapter off eBay thinking it would be DisplayLink (or a compatible off-brand clone), but it turns out to be the really dodgy Fresco Logic FL2000, which is so cheap because it does none of the clever things that DisplayLink adapters do, and instead just spits out full resolution frames as fast as it can, which is completely incompatible with USB 2.0 or low power devices like phones. I found an affordable HP DisplayLink DVI adapter second hand from a Chinese seller that works.
On to the next hurdle: charging while using OTG. This is an interesting one, as it's not something I really gave a lot of thought initially. I mean surely just using a powered hub and giving the phone 5V over its micro-USB port would work, right? Well, it's a bit more complex than that, but Sony used to have an OTG dock that could charge, so I'm confident once I get the right OTG hub, it will work fine on my Z5. The one I got off eBay wouldn't do anything but charge, and when I opened it up, I saw it doesn't even use the 5th OTG pin, which would explain why it didn't work. I soldered a regular Type-A plug onto it and used my Sony OTG adapter to test, and I can get either charging or OTG, so something a bit less hacky is required. I ordered the Acasis H027, so when it arrives, we'll see if that works.
Touch: I haven't tested it yet. I have an HDMI touch screen in storage at my brother's house, so next time I visit I'll see if I can get touches to register on the phone. Based on my Googling most people on the internet seem to have gotten this to work fine, although there is no touch calibration on Android as far as I'm aware, like there is on Windows.
Portrait mode: this is my personal pet project and what I've been struggling with the most so far. It would be by far the easiest to just use a touch screen in landscape mode, but hear me out. Because HDMI (touch) monitors are cheap anyway, and in the 7 inch to 24 inch size range, bigger usually means cheaper, I want Tesla-style portrait mode. In portrait mode we can fit more screen estate in the centre console of the car than in landscape mode, and a bigger screen = bigger text = quicker glancing = safer driving. And it also happens to look extremely cool. If you have a big car you can probably fit a 20 or 24 inch screen, but I think I'm going for 13 inch. However. Using the DisplayLink Presenter app or the DisplayLink Desktop demo app which as far as I can tell does exactly the same things, I cannot for the life of me get native portrait mode to work. Android insists on pillarboxing portrait mode, and no amount of forcing rotation, setting build.props like ro.sf.hwrotation or persist.demo.hdmirotation works to change its mind. More worryingly, it seems that for the HDMI rotation prop to work, you need to also set persist.demo.singledisplay, which prevents apps from accessing secondary displays, which means DisplayLink Presenter, which itself is an app, cannot mirror the screen output any more and you get a sad single stripe of garbage pixels on an otherwise completely black screen. I probably need help here from an XDA developer, to hack the DisplayLink app, or to develop an Xposed module that causes all apps to draw themselves in portrait mode while the system is actually in landscape mode, or something along those lines. I've tried most things in my power that I could think of, and since my phone is unlocked, rooted, magisk'd and xposed, that is actually quite a lot, but nothing helped. So, uh, help?
Lastly there is DPI, which is one of the easier hurdles that I did solve. Android Auto (in phone mode, so not connected to any head unit) has a ridiculously huge UI on my phone's native dpi, and while I understand the reasons for it, with a larger external touch screen attached it just becomes unreasonably huge. With Tasker set to run "wm density 240" the entire Android UI becomes a lot more suited to a large screen, and even though Android Auto is still pretty huge compared to other apps, it's what I would consider reasonable.
More to come!

So, quick update:
While the screen portrait mode issues were "simple" to fix (although root was definitely required), the touch orientation issues as well as charging-during-OTG require kernel modifications to be fixed. I managed to compile a modified kernel with charging-during-OTG support thanks to @nlra 's work on that front, but I couldn't get the new image to boot.
A few things happened in the mean time:
- I discovered scrcpy
- I got an Xperia XZ3 (which I haven't rooted yet)
Scrcpy seems to be basically what Android Auto does, but for the whole Android desktop instead of only one app. I kind of don't like it because it involves adding a computer in between the display and the phone again (probably a Raspberry Pi), but the advantages are so huge it's basically the only realistic option right now.
Scrcpy:
- Basically always runs at 60fps, even on USB 2.0
- Handles portrait/landscape gracefully
- Integrates display, touch, (audio in a future version), and charging in a single connection
- Doesn't require root (although automatically setting the Android resolution to 1920x1080 and keeping the display on at 0% brightness are things that can probably only be accomplished with Tasker, which requires root)
So basically this simplifies and moves the project further immensely, however there are still some blocking issues right now. Touch screens only work on Windows because in addition to generating touch events, Windows also generates fallback mouse click events for touches, something that Linux doesn't do, and because there is no formal touch screen support in scrcpy, multi-touch doesn't work at all. Audio support also seems to be in an experimental state currently, and is not enabled for regular builds.
I hope ROM1V will eventually implement touch screen support (it's been in his GitHub issue tracker since March) as I have enough work to do as it is. I will focus on the hardware part (Raspi, cabling, VESA mount etc.) first and if by that time touch support is still missing I'll take a crack at it myself. Thankfully scrcpy is built on SDL which I'm fairly familiar with, although I've never worked with the touch input API before.

For the charging you need hub with usb-c PowerDelivery passthrough and HDMI. I am testing ones with less power consumption right now. I am not sure why you weren't able to use it.
I think people would be better of using following app for changing resolution, etc. using SecondScreen (I think root is required to run HDMI in portait mode, because it is grayed out for me).
I am doing the same project, but I keep the screen 1600x1200 horizontally and use apps in split view mode. I don't want root. I was thinking of using SamsungDEX for it, but the menus are too small.
The good thing is though, that on Samsung it is possible to create two-apps split screen pair (e.g. google map + music) as a launcher shortcut (using Good Lock (MultiStar plugin) from Galaxy Store). Unfortunately, I don't think it is possible to automate launching two apps in split screen automatically, nor create a split-pair shortcut on other launchers.
It would be good to have some multiwindow manager since I also wanted my BMW-tuning/logging gauges app to run in a floating window on top or minimized to a floating icon. It is possible naturally but it is a lot of manual clicking :/
One more thing that I don't think will be possible, is to completely turn off the phone screen. With the screen on, Note8 doesn't do fast charging. Can the screen be off with scrcpy somehow, I don't think?

So this dead?

Question Recommendations for a new Tab S8 Plus

I ordered it over the weekend for my birthday -- was going to go through Best Buy but they were only going to offer me $40 trade in for my 256gb Tab S4 -- Samsung offered $300 plus a free set of Galaxy Buds2. So I took the deal.
Questions:
1) To root or not to root -- will rooting disrupt normal software upgrades? Any compelling reason to root (or not)? Are there guides to root the S8 Plus?
2) Are there any guides for debloating, even if this is just disabling bloatware?
3) Is there any real need to update accessories? I've got aa DVD/CD player, a HDMI + USB C hub, wireless mouse and keyboard, most other adaptors.
3A) What about power bricks? Most of my power bricks are either Samsung lightning chargers or USB C 20 Watt PD plugins.
4) Is there any way to optimize wireless transfer to shared drives on a PC? I usually use Solid Explorer; on the Tab S4 transfer speeds are really slow
5) I use Nova Launcher on my Tab S4. Is there any reason to switch to a different launcher?
6) With Nova Launcher Backup, I can easily get the app icons in the right places (assuming I keep Nova Launcher). Is there any way to backup your DEX desktop in a similar way?
7) Any other thoughts on the move from Tab S4 to S8 Plus?
Thanks,
Joe

Prepare yourself. WoT (Wall of Text) incoming.
drjoe1 said:
I ordered it over the weekend for my birthday
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, Happy Birthday, whether it's late or soon.
drjoe1 said:
-- was going to go through Best Buy but they were only going to offer me $40 trade in for my 256gb Tab S4 -- Samsung offered $300 plus a free set of Galaxy Buds2. So I took the deal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not bad at all. Awesome!
drjoe1 said:
1) To root or not to root --
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Root for me, always.
drjoe1 said:
will rooting disrupt normal software upgrades?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. Click the yellow "How To Guide" quick filter at the top of the list of threads in this section and you'll find a thread with directions on how to root in the first place and how to update while rooted. TL;DR: From memory, the process is nearly identical - one of the differences between first-time root of the device versus updating is flashing one particular file instead of another particular file.
drjoe1 said:
Any compelling reason to root (or not)? Are there guides to root the S8 Plus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above answer for guide(s). It all depends on what you want out of root. I like full backups of every single app and app data including system apps. There are other things but I can't remember off the top of my head regarding root of Samsung devices - on my Pixel 6 Pro there are six or a dozen things I definitely like root for.
Edit: Just remember something else I like root for, but I'll cover that below (two questions down) in my answer to your accessories/hub question.
drjoe1 said:
2) Are there any guides for debloating, even if this is just disabling bloatware?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I saw one also here you'd likely find in this section with either the "How To Guide" or "General" quick filter. I rarely debloat anymore, but my main mobile device being a Pixel I don't have any reason to want to debloat, and on my Samsung, I'd rather not micro-manage and take the chance I'll hinder some capability that I would normally have, and now I would have to troubleshoot what I debloated that I shouldn't have. Plus firmware/system apps change, and what's safe or not safe may change. It's just too much. I used to debloat like crazy, but I just don't anymore.
drjoe1 said:
3) Is there any real need to update accessories? I've got aa DVD/CD player, a HDMI + USB C hub, wireless mouse and keyboard, most other adaptors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. If they're all USB-C or you have reliable adapters to use them with USB-C, then you're set. The only possible reason I could think is if you want a USB-C PD (Power Delivery) compatible hub that handles at least 45 watts so that you can externally power your hub and have the hub in turn charge your tablet at full power. I like the capability plus I wanted to be very minorly future-proof (no such thing) so I got a 100-watt GAN generation 3 three-port PD compatible charger, and a 100-watt USB-C hub where the hub's cable is a regular detachable USB-C <-> USB-C cable.
There's only one USB-C port on the tablet, so if you need to use a hub and charge the tablet at the same time, a PD-compatible charger and hub that support at least 45 watts would be ideal. Your mileage may vary with lower wattage of either.
Note that I treat my batteries relatively carefully. For all my devices, I try to not let go below 25%, I don't fast charge unless I really need to (so very rarely for my usage), and I only charge the device up to 75%.
Now for how this is related to root. I use something called ACC along with a GUI-front end app called AccA that allows you, using root, to turn off charging the device automatically when it reaches a top % you configure, and not charge the device until it's a low % you configure - more or less.
drjoe1 said:
3A) What about power bricks? Most of my power bricks are either Samsung lightning chargers or USB C 20 Watt PD plugins.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
See above. Tablet handles up to 45-watt, but you can use lower. I don't quick/fast charge my devices at all unless I really have a particular need to.
As you probably know, the tablet does not come with a charger. I don't even know if the USB-C cable it comes with handles 45-watt, or if it supports data speeds faster than USB 2.0. I have a surplus of previous plus new OEM and third-party cables.
drjoe1 said:
4) Is there any way to optimize wireless transfer to shared drives on a PC? I usually use Solid Explorer; on the Tab S4 transfer speeds are really slow
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmmm. I don't have a great amount of experience with this. For heavy-duty (great quantity and/or size) transfers I only use cable. I've used X-plore File Manager's Wi-Fi mode to transfer wirelessly but only small files normally, and it's done fine. Maybe someone else has more experience.
drjoe1 said:
5) I use Nova Launcher on my Tab S4. Is there any reason to switch to a different launcher?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Heck no. Nova Launcher (Prime) FTW and forever as far as I'm concerned. I used to try new devices' OEM launchers and other third-party ones, but I don't even bother anymore. I actually restored my phone's Nova Launcher (built-in app) backup to my tablet and will tweak from there when I have time. I like having the same things available at the same places on every device I use, and from old devices to new devices.
drjoe1 said:
6) With Nova Launcher Backup, I can easily get the app icons in the right places (assuming I keep Nova Launcher). Is there any way to backup your DEX desktop in a similar way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't had any successful experience with DEX period, so I can't speak to that.
drjoe1 said:
7) Any other thoughts on the move from Tab S4 to S8 Plus?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is my first Samsung tablet, and only the second Android tablet I've ever bought for myself (and my wife). The other was back in 2014-2015 - the LG G-Pad 8.3.
drjoe1 said:
Thanks,
Joe
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Click to collapse
You're welcome! Hope this helps and you enjoy whichever decision you make. Good luck!
WrT

Thanks a bunch. That was a lot to digest!
My birthday was yesterday (5/22). Another year older, thankfully not deeper in debt this year!
I started out with a Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition, then a Tab S2, Tab S4 and now Tab S8 Plus. Climbing the ladder. For all people disparage Samsung, the Note 10.1 was a great productivity tool ten years ago; we are getting closer and closer to "laptop" as time goes by.
I've wanted an upgrade from the Tab S4 for a long time -- really missed a fingerprint reader, and feel the Tab S4 was really limited by only 4GB RAM. I played around for a while with DEX, but had multiple crashes related to too many apps open at one time. I really wish they would have opened up the Tab S8 Plus to a 16GB option. I just didn't want the size that goes with the Ultra.
I'll look over the guides; I haven't been active on XDA for a long time (since the Tab S4 was new), and the layout of the main page is different than it was. I see the guides for rooting and debloating.
Most of my accessories are either USB C, USB 3.0 or have adaptors/adaptor cables. My main hub is a UGREEN 70411 6-Port adaptor that claims it accepts up to 100W PD. It was necessary when using DEX on my TV -- with other hubs, I would lose power over time. But 20W PD on this hub was enough to the Tab S4at full charge. I'll look around for a 45W PD brick.
take care,
Joe

drjoe1 said:
Thanks a bunch. That was a lot to digest!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bet, you're welcome!
drjoe1 said:
My birthday was yesterday (5/22). Another year older, thankfully not deeper in debt this year!
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Click to collapse
I hear that. Me too (not deeper in debt)!
drjoe1 said:
I started out with a Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 Edition, then a Tab S2, Tab S4 and now Tab S8 Plus. Climbing the ladder. For all people disparage Samsung, the Note 10.1 was a great productivity tool ten years ago; we are getting closer and closer to "laptop" as time goes by.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Samsung makes great hardware, but I don't like their software anymore for my phone.
drjoe1 said:
I've wanted an upgrade from the Tab S4 for a long time -- really missed a fingerprint reader, and feel the Tab S4 was really limited by only 4GB RAM. I played around for a while with DEX, but had multiple crashes related to too many apps open at one time. I really wish they would have opened up the Tab S8 Plus to a 16GB option. I just didn't want the size that goes with the Ultra.
I'll look over the guides; I haven't been active on XDA for a long time (since the Tab S4 was new), and the layout of the main page is different than it was. I see the guides for rooting and debloating.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XDA changed the software for their forum out of necessity roughly two years ago, maybe a little less, I don't recall exactly. I was an RC at the time and I, too, wasn't very active. Since I got my Pixel 1 in 2016 and was very satisfied with it, I spent less and less time until the Pixel 6 Pro with 512 GB of storage was announced last year. Right around the time for the pre-order of it was when I started being just as or even more active on XDA as I used to be.
drjoe1 said:
Most of my accessories are either USB C, USB 3.0 or have adaptors/adaptor cables. My main hub is a UGREEN 70411 6-Port adaptor that claims it accepts up to 100W PD. It was necessary when using DEX on my TV -- with other hubs, I would lose power over time. But 20W PD on this hub was enough to the Tab S4at full charge. I'll look around for a 45W PD brick.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very nice. If you don't know, the "GAN" technology used in some chargers the last few years makes chargers noticeably smaller, although it's not a requirement so it's just whatever your preference is. It's not specific to any one manufacturer, and the 3rd generation GAN that I referenced is even smaller than the 2nd generation was.
drjoe1 said:
take care,
Joe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You too, see you around the forum!
WrT

Keep in mind rooting a new device will void whole warranty completely and it will trip KNOX permanently so apps like samsung pass, secret folder and so will stop working since they require working KNOX chip.
So I would never root a brand new device that has 1-2 years valid warranty since if the device decides to lay off or get issue with graphics or similar then warranty can cover it. But that won't be available if you have rooted because of bootloader is unlocked and has triggered the KNOX chip permanently.

drjoe1 said:
I ordered it over the weekend for my birthday -- was going to go through Best Buy but they were only going to offer me $40 trade in for my 256gb Tab S4 -- Samsung offered $300 plus a free set of Galaxy Buds2. So I took the deal.
Questions:
1) To root or not to root -- will rooting disrupt normal software upgrades? Any compelling reason to root (or not)? Are there guides to root the S8 Plus?
2) Are there any guides for debloating, even if this is just disabling bloatware?
3) Is there any real need to update accessories? I've got aa DVD/CD player, a HDMI + USB C hub, wireless mouse and keyboard, most other adaptors.
3A) What about power bricks? Most of my power bricks are either Samsung lightning chargers or USB C 20 Watt PD plugins.
4) Is there any way to optimize wireless transfer to shared drives on a PC? I usually use Solid Explorer; on the Tab S4 transfer speeds are really slow
5) I use Nova Launcher on my Tab S4. Is there any reason to switch to a different launcher?
6) With Nova Launcher Backup, I can easily get the app icons in the right places (assuming I keep Nova Launcher). Is there any way to backup your DEX desktop in a similar way?
7) Any other thoughts on the move from Tab S4 to S8 Plus?
Thanks,
Joe
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As roirraW has already respond with plenty of useful info, I won't go into AS much detail, but I'll still give some.
1. I personally root any device I have that can be rooted. Unless it can't be rooted, it's absolutely gonna get rooted. If your device is rooted and your device offers you a software update (which it shouldn't unless you somehow managed to make your device status show up as official) then allowing it to install will just fail. Even if you don't have a custom recovery installed, having a modified rom will not allow updates to be installed. You'll have to patch some newer firmware with Magisk and use Odin to flash the newer firmware. There is a guide to root the S8+, along with the S8 and S8U. Just use the "how to / guide" filter and it should be the first thing you see. Very easy to follow.
2. There is also a guide to debloat in the same "how to" section as the root guide. I've seen it, and while it's pretty lengthy, it's essential as there is quite a bit of bloatware.
3. There's only the one USB C port on the tablet, so I'd just plug em all in and see what works and what doesn't, but you shouldn't have much issue with it.
3a. Like roirraW said, the tablet supports fast charging up to 45W, but I personally use the Anker 65W charging brick as it's from a company I trust and is less expensive than the official Samsung ones.
4. Not really sure about this one. If you're referring to an FTP server than I'd recommend you to keep using Solid Explorer, as it's the one I use for wirelessly transfering files from one device to another.
5. I used to use Nova Launcher, and I'd still recommend it as it's super simple to use and offers a lot of customization. Even so, I really enjoy the OneUI Launcher, enough to where I've fully switched over to it. OneUI has gotten so much better over the years, and it feels great to not be basically required to use a 3rd party launcher to have a nice UI. So, I'd either use Nova or the stock OneUI launcher. Up to you though.
6. I used Nova Backup to get my apps in roughly the same positions as they were before, but there are bound to be some issues if not every single app you used on your previous device is present on your newer one. Regardless, the backup system works well and you can use it no worries. However, the same can't be said about Dex as you can't change your Dex launcher. You can't even open Nova in Dex last I checked.
7. I actually switched from the Tab S4 to the Tab S8+ (used the S7+ for a short time before upgrading), and it's night and day. I love this tablet so much, and I use it every day for all of my needs. Whether it be gaming, productivity, or anything that I used to do on my Tab S4, it's so much better on the Tab S8+. I even got the keyboard attachment that comes in two pieces; the magnetic back cover which protects the S-Pen, and the keyboard with the trackpad. The trackpad is on the lower-end side, so I'd just use a wireless (or wired) mouse instead, but the keyboard feels nice to type on, has sufficient spaces for your palms to rest on, and has the F1-F12 row that serves various, useful functions.
Here's another text wall for you to read. Hopefully this gives you some more useful info alongside roirraW's.

Thanks also for your thoughts.
Regarding file transfer: I have drive sharing enabled on hard drives attached to my windows 10 laptop. They are mapped in Solid Explorer as network drives. I've got my video library on them, as well as the backup for my eBook's library, my pictures library, music backup, documents archive, etc. Usually I download videos on my tablet and then transfer them to the video library on the laptop. Then I stream from the laptop to Chromecast on my TV, with the Tab S4, video conversion to allow Chromecast sometimes leads to choppy video when casting. Or I stream directly on my tablet. But anyhow, the transfer speed to the hard drives is very slow... Less than 20 Mb/s which means it takes a long time to transfer multi GB movies (or multiple episodes of a seasonal show, which can add up fast). Direct copying to/from the drives from the laptop is 100MB/s. What kind of wireless transfer speeds do you get?
The new tablet is supposed to be delivered tomorrow!
Take care,
Joe

@drjoe1 the Tab S4 10.5 (I assume is the same) used Samsung's UFS 2.1, and the Tab S8+ uses UFS 3.1. Here are speed differences listed. It could offer some improvement in speed if it was part of the bottleneck, although I'm not sure if it was. The "3 x enhancement" etc for 3.1 is probably with respect to 3.0, which I cut out of the quote.
UFS 2.1​Following are features of UFS 2.1.
• Introduction year : 2017
• Memory options : 512 GB, 1 TB, Automotive versions
• Sequential Read (Mbps) : 860 Mbps ( with 512GB )
• Sequential Write (Mbps) : 255 Mbps ( with 512GB )
• Random Read (IOP/sec) : 42,000 ( with 512GB )
• Random Write (IOP/sec) : 40,000 ( with 512GB )
UFS 3.1​Following are features of UFS 3.1.
• Introduction year : 2020
• Memory options : 256 GB, 512 GB
• Sequential Read (Mbps) : 2100 ( with 512GB )
• Sequential Write (Mbps) : 1200 Mbps (3 x enhancement) ( with 512GB )
• Random Read (IOP/sec) : 100,000 (1.6 x enhancement) ( with 512GB )
• Random Write (IOP/sec) : 70,000 (1.3 x enhancement) ( with 512GB )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
UFS 4.0 has been announced and speculated that the Galaxy S23 will use it.

I got my Tab S8 Plus yesterday!
First impressions:
1) It's big.
2) An inch or two extra in each direction compared to the Tab S4 is big. I can't imagine carrying an Ultra around. I'm sure I'll get used to the larger size, but maybe an S8 would have been a better size.
3) Transfer to the new tablet was smooth. Nova Launcher is awesome -- I restored the settings from my old tablet, and it put all the icons in the right places. Then tap on the icon to open Play Store, or side load the app and it is good to go. I used SmartSwitch to transfer contacts, messages, and home screen, and I was surprised that it didn't only copy the home screen images, but it copied the DEX desktop layout. I didn't run DEX until I had already reloaded all the aps, so I had nothing to do to set up the DEX desktop.
4) DEX is weird -- less options in the settings. I was fooled by one of the few -- it does screen mirroring by default If you plug in an HDMI cable & then turn on DEX -- The only way not to screen-mirror is to enable "start DEX on HDMI connection" -- in which case you get the TV in DEX and the tablet in Android.
5) Did I mention it is BIG?
Thanks all for your helpful information,
Joe

6) Trusted places no longer is an option I can find for unlocking the tablet. Not that unlock on 4 character pin + unlock on face recognition + unlock on thumbprint aren't options enough, but it was nice making my apartment a "safe place".
7) Also about face recognition -- so much better than iris recognition on the Tab S4! I wear strong prescription glasses, and had to remove them for iris recognition.. No more! I still have a problem with the location of the tablet /direction of the camera related to "where the camera points" and "where my face is" related to the tablet stand I use.... the angle and height of the tablet make my face half below the field of view of the camera
8) Apps not optimized for tablets are a much bigger problem (pun intended) on the Tab S8+ than on the Tab S4 if nothing else because of the bigger size of the tablet. I like Catan Classic, and it is close to un-playable on the Tab S8+.
9) DeX over PC -- I thought the Tab S4 couldn't do DeX over PC because it was too old... Turns out the Tab S8+ can't either. Samsung Tablets in general don't support DeX on PC. How stupid is that? Let's take the productivity platform and make it less productive! I tried for at least an hour to get the damn thing to connect before I found some references that tablets are left out. Rotten!
take care,
Joe

drjoe1 said:
6) Trusted places no longer is an option I can find for unlocking the tablet. Not that unlock on 4 character pin + unlock on face recognition + unlock on thumbprint aren't options enough, but it was nice making my apartment a "safe place".
7) Also about face recognition -- so much better than iris recognition on the Tab S4! I wear strong prescription glasses, and had to remove them for iris recognition.. No more! I still have a problem with the location of the tablet /direction of the camera related to "where the camera points" and "where my face is" related to the tablet stand I use.... the angle and height of the tablet make my face half below the field of view of the camera
8) Apps not optimized for tablets are a much bigger problem (pun intended) on the Tab S8+ than on the Tab S4 if nothing else because of the bigger size of the tablet. I like Catan Classic, and it is close to un-playable on the Tab S8+.
9) DeX over PC -- I thought the Tab S4 couldn't do DeX over PC because it was too old... Turns out the Tab S8+ can't either. Samsung Tablets in general don't support DeX on PC. How stupid is that? Let's take the productivity platform and make it less productive! I tried for at least an hour to get the damn thing to connect before I found some references that tablets are left out. Rotten!
take care,
Joe
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Face recognition isn't as safe as iris recognition. Since you can manipulate the face recognition and unlock the device easy. It even states a warning when setting upp face recognition that it is not as safe than password/pin is.

Jake.S said:
Face recognition isn't as safe as iris recognition. Since you can manipulate the face recognition and unlock the device easy. It even states a warning when setting upp face recognition that it is not as safe than password/pin is.
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Of course you are correct. But I don't expect an experienced hacker will ever try to break into my tablet. As far as I'm concerned, the security is there so someone can't pick up my tablet and have direct access to my file. If I leave it in a public place, or have it stolen, someone probably won't have my picture or know what I look like. I'm not particularly worried that a thief will take my picture then steal my tablet. I'm also not terribly worried about the FBI or law enforcement breaking into my phone -- I don't know why they would.
Face recognition is so much more convenient than iris recognition when you wear strong prescription glasses. By the time I take my glasses off, the camera has timed out and needs to be restarted.
I think for a casual tablet owner, it isn't such a risky thing. Of course, not so necessary when you have the fingerprint reader available.
Joe

drjoe1 said:
Of course you are correct. But I don't expect an experienced hacker will ever try to break into my tablet. As far as I'm concerned, the security is there so someone can't pick up my tablet and have direct access to my file. If I leave it in a public place, or have it stolen, someone probably won't have my picture or know what I look like. I'm not particularly worried that a thief will take my picture then steal my tablet. I'm also not terribly worried about the FBI or law enforcement breaking into my phone -- I don't know why they would.
Face recognition is so much more convenient than iris recognition when you wear strong prescription glasses. By the time I take my glasses off, the camera has timed out and needs to be restarted.
I think for a casual tablet owner, it isn't such a risky thing. Of course, not so necessary when you have the fingerprint reader available.
Joe
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You don't have to be experienced to fool face recognition which is why warning appears since it's quite easy to manipulate it. So anyone can do it without skills.

Another update and more impressions...
1) I followed Jake's advice and wiped face recognition. It really isn't needed with the thumbprint reader placed in easy access when holding the tablet in landscape orientation. Plus the feature that the four-digit PIN automatically unlocks after you put the correct four digits makes putting pin in very fast.
2) I love super fast charge. This is the first device I have with it (my phone is a Galaxy S10 Plus). It really is fast enough that you can charge the phone between planes in an airport terminal.
3) [Charging rant on] Charging is and has always been more mysterious than it should be. I found out that all cables were not the same back with my first tablet in 2014. And that you had to read the fine print to determine the gauge of the mini- and micro- USB cables. Then that chargers weren't the same. There is table at https://www.digitalcitizen.life/fast-charging-standards/ that has over TWENTY EIGHT different standards. And Samsung doesn't use the standard standards! My understanding is that Samsung Adaptive fast Charge was really a castrated version of Qualcomm Quick Charge 2! And now they have Samsung Super Fast 1.0 and 2.0 as separate standards again from PD! So how do you know if a brick supports Super fast 2.0? You'd think it would have gotten better with PD and USB C, but no! Samsung is still Samsung!
So I got an awesome charger that is also a power bank ( https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08DC99CB5 ), and I get the Super Fast Charge with it. But I still don't have a clue how the damn thing works. First, they rate the primary charge on the native 3.8V lithium ion batteries. 10,000 mAh. But the battery pack has to convert this (with losses) to a USB standard voltage. This used to be 5V, and they do still tell you the rating at 5V. 5,800mAh. But the PD (Power Delivery) standard uses 5V, 9V, 12V, 15V, and 20V. I have no idea what the battery rating is for the higher voltages. And then, the tablet has to take the 20V, 15V, 12V, 9V, and 5V and convert them with losses back to 4V to charge the internal battery. And if the internal battery is charged and you are maintaining the battery level, I don't know if it is powering the tablet directly (and at what voltage) or topping off the tablet battery at 4V as it discharges. And what the efficiency is. So how much charge do I get with a battery pack? I don't know!
And now there is more USB-C cable madness. Again, you have to figure the gauge of the cable! And it seems sometimes they rate cables by current rating not gauge. Sometimes they tell you descriptively it is for fast charging sometime they don't. And add to that the mysterious "Super Fast Charge 2.0" (not to be mixed up with "Fast Wireless Charging 2.0")! It seems you need a cable with an "E-Mark" chipset to run at currents over 5A. And maybe for 20V -- it isn't clear to me if E-Mark is related to "Super Fast Charge 2.0" kicks in. And I can't find any documentation for it except references on the S20 series phones ( https://www.samsung.com/global/galaxy/what-is/super-fast-charging/ ). The S20's seem to be 45W just like the Tab S8+. But other info on Super Fast Charge 2.0 suggests it is for 65W or 100W laptops.
So does "Super Fast Charging 2.0" exist on the Tab S8 series? I don't know. When does it kick in? I don't know. How much faster is it? I don't know. Why do they need to make this so confusing? I don't know. I have a PhD in Physics and work as an engineer in a semiconductor factory that makes wide band-gap chip products for chargers, and I don't know!
Hahaha.... [Charging rant off] Very frustrating. But liking the tablet. Still getting used to the size.
Joe