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Hi guys..
I sad Google developed 2.2 to improve snapdragon cpu and becuase of that the benchmarks shows 3X faster cpu on nexus,
will work 2.2 on galaxy like nexus ? or not for SGS cpu!
at all what you think about power of CPU/GPU in SGS on 2.2 ?
Is nexus cpu better than galaxy on Android 2.2 ?
The Galaxy's CPU/GPU is the best on the market right now and with 2.2 it should fix a lot of software problems with the SGS.
Actually can't wait for 2.2, and it's released around about my birthday!
When is your birthday
22nd September mate. You can buy me a Galaxy S as a spare if you want
well I have to see it first.
Guess Samsung finds a way to **** up the phone again i'm sure of that.
matty___ said:
well I have to see it first.
Guess Samsung finds a way to **** up the phone again i'm sure of that.
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Click to collapse
If it has rfs file format and TouchWiz, consider it ****ed up.
kgk888 said:
If it has rfs file format and TouchWiz, consider it ****ed up.
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Click to collapse
If froyo on the SGS sucks, then the chefs in here will cut it open and make it run properly and it won't matter what the FW was like when samsung sent it out. Also, TouchWiz is fine, even if it does have a dumb name.
I have been worried about this. The sgs line and droid line do not get over 15 in linpack with 2.2. I dont see the same increase in speed as I do with snapdragon based phones. I have read this is due to the snapdragon having 128 bit vs 64 bit something but cant find the forum post about this. The sgs line with 2.1 is still faster then a 2.2 snapdragon based phone but it must have the lag fix installed. Without the lag fix it is slower for sure. I will try to find the forum post about 128bit vs 64bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKsAUR61ByM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji49qFNxC4c
Edit: found the forum post
Originally Posted by Gimic26
Your question was answered already...it comes down to processor architecture. Qualcomm's Snapdragon platform and more specifically the Scorpion application processor, while being related to TI's Omap Arm series, has enhancements made by Qualcomm. The part of the cpu that handles the SIMD instructions has a wider pipeline, 128 bits vs 64 bits in TI's Omap. Scorpion also has a deeper pipeline to better handle all that data which I'd assume offsets some of the performance benefits a little bit.
As far as the difference between the two benchmarks, they are written to benchmark two different things. Linpack can run almost entirely within the SIMD/NEON portion of the cpu thereby showing off the enhancements made by Qualcomm. Quadrant stresses the entire core showing off total system performance showing that only in certain situations will Snapdragon outperform any other Arm based core.
shep211 said:
I have been worried about this. The sgs line and droid line do not get over 15 in linpack with 2.2. I dont see the same increase in speed as I do with snapdragon based phones. I have read this is due to the snapdragon having 128 bit vs 64 bit something but cant find the forum post about this. The sgs line with 2.1 is still faster then a 2.2 snapdragon based phone but it must have the lag fix installed. Without the lag fix it is slower for sure. I will try to find the forum post about 128bit vs 64bit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKsAUR61ByM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ji49qFNxC4c
Edit: found the forum post
Originally Posted by Gimic26
Your question was answered already...it comes down to processor architecture. Qualcomm's Snapdragon platform and more specifically the Scorpion application processor, while being related to TI's Omap Arm series, has enhancements made by Qualcomm. The part of the cpu that handles the SIMD instructions has a wider pipeline, 128 bits vs 64 bits in TI's Omap. Scorpion also has a deeper pipeline to better handle all that data which I'd assume offsets some of the performance benefits a little bit.
As far as the difference between the two benchmarks, they are written to benchmark two different things. Linpack can run almost entirely within the SIMD/NEON portion of the cpu thereby showing off the enhancements made by Qualcomm. Quadrant stresses the entire core showing off total system performance showing that only in certain situations will Snapdragon outperform any other Arm based core.
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Click to collapse
From what I've seen and read, the 2.2 builds for the Galaxy S do NOT have a JIT compiler enabled which explains the lower scores. The N1 got the huge CPU boost from having JIT enabled. That doesn't explain the Droid X's scores, but then again I haven't read enough about 2.2 running on the DX to see if it has JIT installed.
What're you think? I'll buy SGS 2.1 or wait for SGS 2.2 ?
It's very important to buy most powerfull phone.
I like Nexuse cus it's tested sucssasfuly in Android 2.2 and I'm gono love SGS if it will be better than nexus in 2.2.
Help me to choose better path )
Vogie said:
What're you think? I'll buy SGS 2.1 or wait for SGS 2.2 ?
It's very important to buy most powerfull phone.
I like Nexuse cus it's tested sucssasfuly in Android 2.2 and I'm gono love SGS if it will be better than nexus in 2.2.
Help me to choose better path )
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Click to collapse
I would wait at this time before purchasing an SGS if that's your concern.
Out of the box, the current phone/software is laggy and disappointing. If you're willing to hack it with some of the various fixes found here (I prefer samset with mimocan kernel), then you won't be unhappy with the phone, but there's no guarantee that Samsung will get FroYo right, and that if they do get it wrong that the devs here will be able to bring you a hot, non-laggy, super FroYo ROM before there's better, or at least comparable hardware done right by the manufacturer available.
That's no reflection on the devs here at all, I'm just thinking that Samsung won't release the firmware until the end of September, the devs will need a couple of weeks to make magic at least, and so now we're well into October. By October, the SGS will be a six month old phone. Six months is a very long time in the Android hardware world, and we'll likely see a landslide of new phones with faster CPU, maybe even dual-cores in the fall for the holiday season. The only thing the SGS will have over other phones at that point is the Super AMOLED screen by Samsung, since they're holding it all to themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if Moto or HTC try to kang the iPhone display tech for newer models if they can't get Super AMOLED for themselves.
In the android world it is nearly impossible to but a device that won't be out of date within at most a year and sometimes within 6 months.
Having said that, I don't see anything that will topple the sgs quite that soon. Although there is talk of dual core snap dragons, there has been nothing announced yet, and indeed the two new Desire handsets are still on the same chip.
I wouldn't expect to see anything that will have more raw power than the sgs until at least mid 2011. If there was anything closer than that it'd already be getting hyped.
If you keep looking at what is just over the horizon then you won't end up ever getting one, because there always seems to be something new out in a few months time. The sgs isn't prefect, but it beats the hell it of most anything that you'll be able to buy this year.
My humble opinion of course, but I think that if you want top end hardware, the sgs will serve you very well.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Based on your responses so far, I'd just get an iPhone 4 and be done with it.
There are a lot of people here and elsewhere who are perfectly happy with the device. I for one haven't installed the lag fix and I don't experience any lags, except for the situations below:
1. I'm trying to do something while there are several apps being installed/downloaded from the marketplace in the background. I think this will be resolved with the dualcore next gen CPU's.
2. Using LauncherPro, for all that is good and nice on this earth, I do not know why it took me 3 months before the option to change the shortcut on its drawer was shown to me. Imagine that, 3 months just to show the option to add a shortcut. Jeezus. I click on add shortcut and it took 3 months. Someone shoot me. I'm using ADW now and am very happy.
Out of sheer curiosity, why is it that you need "THE MOST POWERFUL PHONE"?
shep211 said:
As far as the difference between the two benchmarks, they are written to benchmark two different things. Linpack can run almost entirely within the SIMD/NEON portion of the cpu thereby showing off the enhancements made by Qualcomm. Quadrant stresses the entire core showing off total system performance showing that only in certain situations will Snapdragon outperform any other Arm based core.
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The hummingbird core is widely recognized to be faster than the snapdragon core. Benchmarks do not tell you everything. Reference:
You might think that the Hummingbird doesn’t stand a chance against Qualcomm’s custom-built monster, but Samsung isn’t prepared to throw in the towel. In response to Snapdragon, they hired Intrinsity, a semiconductor company specializing in tweaking processor logic design, to customize the Cortex-A8 in the Hummingbird to perform certain binary functions using significantly less instructions than normal. Samsung estimates that 20% of the Hummingbird’s functions are affected, and of those, on average 25-50% less instructions are needed to complete each task. Overall, the processor can perform tasks 5-10% more quickly while handling the same 2 instructions per clock cycle as an unmodified ARM Cortex-A8 processor, and Samsung states it outperforms all other processors on the market (a statement seemingly aimed at Qualcomm).
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Here is a GPU comparison for some of the leading smartphones:
Motorola Droid: TI OMAP3430 with PowerVR SGX530 = 7-14 million(?) triangles/sec
Nexus One: Qualcomm QSD8x50 with Adreno 200 = 22 million triangles/sec
iPhone 3G S: 600 MHz Cortex-A8 with PowerVR SGX535 = 28 7 million triangles/sec
Samsung Galaxy S: S5PC110 with PowerVR SGX540 = 90 million triangles/sec
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Wait for G2 as nexus one is old news and i think they are winding down production. Frankly i love my sgs. Get it now cos frankly froyo is way over hyped compared to what sgs can do now with a lagfix
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
ickyboo said:
Wait for G2 as nexus one is old news and i think they are winding down production. Frankly i love my sgs. Get it now cos frankly froyo is way over hyped compared to what sgs can do now with a lagfix
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
You can't really say froyo is over hyped, I mean its free, and beyond that its an incremental upgrade.
I don't see why anyone would be staying on eclair once official froyo drops, and you can't deny that it will bring a performance boost.
Now I doubt it will bring quite as much of a boost as it gave to the N1 until we get a few months of development to really get it running sweetly, but all the same its still not over hyped if I ask me.
With optimized ROMs and whatever fixes we need (cuz samsung WILL break something) I figure the sgs will shred the N1's new scores. I recon we'll see around 3k in quadrant.
Considering how far ahead of almost everything a lag fixed non-stock-rom sgs is now, we'll see something really special once froyo starts rocking our crotches.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
The.Opethian said:
Based on your responses so far, I'd just get an iPhone 4 and be done with it.
There are a lot of people here and elsewhere who are perfectly happy with the device. I for one haven't installed the lag fix and I don't experience any lags, except for the situations below:
1. I'm trying to do something while there are several apps being installed/downloaded from the marketplace in the background. I think this will be resolved with the dualcore next gen CPU's.
2. Using LauncherPro, for all that is good and nice on this earth, I do not know why it took me 3 months before the option to change the shortcut on its drawer was shown to me. Imagine that, 3 months just to show the option to add a shortcut. Jeezus. I click on add shortcut and it took 3 months. Someone shoot me. I'm using ADW now and am very happy.
Out of sheer curiosity, why is it that you need "THE MOST POWERFUL PHONE"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why powerfull phone? ok i'll tell u:
Because I don't like to buy an expensive phone (like SGS) that power is lesser than a chipper phone (like N1) !
Because I'd rather a phone without stalling (lagging) to play games and running big applications. I will very gray if i'll se lagging/stalling...
Because I need a phone with a good support (it's enough, don't need mazing support). a phone with a clear (alive or nice) Future
JIT for Hummingbird should be promising.
High Mem
anyone got any idea on the high mem issue?... when i was browsing the Gmarket.com, i realize 305 total available memory is not enough for me... and the web page just closed....
I've been reading a lot of discussion on this and would love to hear some opinions and see some benchmarks.
I currently own a Nexus One & where I live they are priced about $150 dollars more for a Nexus than a Galaxy S (It's my understanding Nexus are regarded as cheaper phones in America?) So basically I can sell my 4 month old Nexus One & buy a brand new 16GB Galaxy S for no extra cost. Here is what I am wondering...
I know the Galaxy S has an amazing GPU, it facerolls the Nexus One & even seems to stomp the Droid X with its improved GPU so that is great.
The CPU however seems to under perform in every benchmark I can find versus the Nexus/Droid2 & many more current high end Androids.
I realise these devices are running Android 2.2 with JIT. I've seen Linpacks of 2.2 running Galaxy S devices and JIT enabled ROMs that still don't compare with these other devices.
Question 1
What I'm wondering is the difference we can see in CPU benchmarks going to be surpassed with the addition of a proper 2.2 JIT rom on our devices or is simply that the Snapdragons & other Qualcomm CPU are actually better than our Hummingbird.
Question 2
My Nexus One is Linkpacking 30 MFlops atm, I think with OC etc I can get it higher too. Does anyone have any evidence of a Galaxy S phone (running 2.2, JIT, lagfix or anything) that competes (or even comes close to competing) with this? I have been unable to find anything.
Question 3
Is the current Quadrant scores that I'm seeing people reporting in the Lag Fix threads (2000+) actually representative of speed or are these (as Cyanogen & others seem to be claiming) distorted?
(I realise a lot of people are reporting lag fixed.. what I'm asking is the number represented there (x2 N1 Froyo's score) actually accurate. I don't understand the mechanics behind the I/O benchmark so I don't understand if the lagfix is distoring the reported results from it.)
1. Hummingbird is apparently faster.
2. We don't have JIT yet.. Compare Nexus One 2.1/Eclair with Galaxy S 2.1, and I remember seeing we are faster.. JIT has a massive impact on mflops (because the benchmark uses bytecode, not compiled code).
3. No benchmark is really representative of speeds (no matter what people tell you). Because different apps have different workloads. You might get 50mflops in a CPU test, but for 3D games, the number of triangles matters more. It has recently been shown the I/O test for quadrant can be tricked too.
Benchmarks aren't really comprehensive enough for anything more than getting an idea of the performance.. But don't rely on them.
The reason why we get crappy benchmarks is due to having ****ty filesystem (rfs) which don't let us have multi writes. That's what lag fixes help. Cpu wise we eat snapdragons for breakfast, lunch and tea.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
andrewluecke said:
1. Hummingbird is apparently faster.
2. We don't have JIT yet.. Compare Nexus One 2.1/Eclair with Galaxy S 2.1, and I remember seeing we are faster.. JIT has a massive impact on mflops (because the benchmark uses bytecode, not compiled code).
3. No benchmark is really representative of speeds (no matter what people tell you). Because different apps have different workloads. You might get 50mflops in a CPU test, but for 3D games, the number of triangles matters more. It has recently been shown the I/O test for quadrant can be tricked too.
Benchmarks aren't really comprehensive enough for anything more than getting an idea of the performance.. But don't rely on them.
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Click to collapse
what he said ^^^
regards
ickyboo said:
The reason why we get crappy benchmarks is due to having ****ty filesystem (rfs) which don't let us have multi writes.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk
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Source please.. I never have actually seen anyone prove this here, but I hear it being thrown around increasingly. How was this proven? I'm becoming increasingly concerned that this conclusion was made by playing chinese whispers
andrewluecke said:
Source please.. I never have actually seen anyone prove this here, but I hear it being thrown around increasingly. How was this proven? I'm becoming increasingly concerned that this conclusion was made by playing chinese whispers
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Click to collapse
Well, if you look at pre-Froyo benchmarks of Snapdragon devices, they generally get around 6.1 in Linpack, vs ~8.4 for a Galaxy S. That's a pretty big delta, and carriers through most other synthetic and real world benchmarks, roughly 20% faster at the same clock speed. Same thing can be seen with the TI processors in the Droid line, at 1Ghz, they score in the 8's with 2.1.
Froyo benchmarks are suspect for a number of reasons, mainly because most of the benchmarks were designed with 1.6-2.1 in mind, and partly because Google spent a lot of time optimizing the base Froyo build for a Snapdragon processor. HTC, Sony, Dell, etc can piggyback off this work with their version, whereas Samsung and Motorola have to start much closer to scratch. Which is also why the HTC devices got Froyo sooner.
Believe it or not (and despite the marketing hype) the Snapdragon chipset is a budget solution, with less complex/expensive memory subsystem, and a far less costly integrated graphics solution than what is found on the Galaxy S.
It's cheap to produce, it has almost everything in a nice tidy package that makes it cheaper to engineer handsets (when I say everything, I mean CPU/GPU/Radio/WiFi/GPS/USB).
It's a pretty good package for companies like HTC, who don't do any real hardware engineering, and try to keep costs low. They do software (very very well, I should add), industrial design, and mass manufacturing, but they've NEVER designed a chipset (or display), they always source those from a third party, in this case Qualcom for the chipset, Samsung/Sony for the displays, etc.
However, they were the first to market with 1Ghz speed and it's a solid and stable hardware setup. Just keep in mind that clock speeds don't tell the whole tale.
The Galaxy S, (and to a lesser extent the Droid series) use a better stand-alone CPU solution and a far superior non-integrated (has its own chip) GPU. Samsung does do their own in-house chipset engineering, and they didn't cut corners on the CPU design, and they learned a lot about how to squeeze a lot of performance out of the ARM instruction set from their own products and the work they did for the iPhone processors. In brute-force, they smack the Snapdragon chipset around like a *****, but they get slapped around in turn by HTC's superior software engineering.
HTC has a real advantage in lots and lots of PDA/Smartphone software experience. They know how to make the most of the hardware they purchase, and seem to spend a great deal of time optimizing the software, be it Windows Mobile or Android, and lessons learned from a decade of making PDAs, under their name and for others.
If HTC used a Hummingbird or TI OMAP chipset with PowerVR GPU, I have no doubt they'd be able to more quickly wring more performance and stability out of it than Samsung or Motorola can.
Croak said:
Well, if you look at pre-Froyo benchmarks of Snapdragon devices, they generally get around 6.1 in Linpack, vs ~8.4 for a Galaxy S. That's a pretty big delta, and carriers through most other synthetic and real world benchmarks, roughly 20% faster at the same clock speed. Same thing can be seen with the TI processors in the Droid line, at 1Ghz, they score in the 8's with 2.1.
Froyo benchmarks are suspect for a number of reasons, mainly because most of the benchmarks were designed with 1.6-2.1 in mind, and partly because Google spent a lot of time optimizing the base Froyo build for a Snapdragon processor. HTC, Sony, Dell, etc can piggyback off this work with their version, whereas Samsung and Motorola have to start much closer to scratch. Which is also why the HTC devices got Froyo sooner.
Believe it or not (and despite the marketing hype) the Snapdragon chipset is a budget solution, with less complex/expensive memory subsystem, and a far less costly integrated graphics solution than what is found on the Galaxy S.
It's cheap to produce, it has almost everything in a nice tidy package that makes it cheaper to engineer handsets (when I say everything, I mean CPU/GPU/Radio/WiFi/GPS/USB).
It's a pretty good package for companies like HTC, who don't do any real hardware engineering, and try to keep costs low. They do software (very very well, I should add), industrial design, and mass manufacturing, but they've NEVER designed a chipset (or display), they always source those from a third party, in this case Qualcom for the chipset, Samsung/Sony for the displays, etc.
However, they were the first to market with 1Ghz speed and it's a solid and stable hardware setup. Just keep in mind that clock speeds don't tell the whole tale.
The Galaxy S, (and to a lesser extent the Droid series) use a better stand-alone CPU solution and a far superior non-integrated (has its own chip) GPU. Samsung does do their own in-house chipset engineering, and they didn't cut corners on the CPU design, and they learned a lot about how to squeeze a lot of performance out of the ARM instruction set from their own products and the work they did for the iPhone processors. In brute-force, they smack the Snapdragon chipset around like a *****, but they get slapped around in turn by HTC's superior software engineering.
HTC has a real advantage in lots and lots of PDA/Smartphone software experience. They know how to make the most of the hardware they purchase, and seem to spend a great deal of time optimizing the software, be it Windows Mobile or Android, and lessons learned from a decade of making PDAs, under their name and for others.
If HTC used a Hummingbird or TI OMAP chipset with PowerVR GPU, I have no doubt they'd be able to more quickly wring more performance and stability out of it than Samsung or Motorola can.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, that was a really insightful post.
So basically even though our processor should outperform or ATLEAST match the snapdragons. Due to the mass optimization of 2.2 JIT for Snapdragon devices it's likely we'll never see the same performance. Unless Samsung gets really keen to do some optimization themselves.
I searched all over the internet to see why the CPU scores in Quadrant and other benchmarks are waaaay lower then the Nexus ones, but still I can't find anything.
Does Samsung disable the JIT in their Froyo ROMs? Because both Snapdragon and Hummingbird are still based on the same Cortex A8 cores
"It's clear that FroYo's JIT compiler currently only delivers significant performance gains for Snapdragon CPUs with the Scorpion core. This in turn explains why, so far, only a beta version of Android 2.2 is available for the Cortex-A8-based Samsung Galaxy S — the JIT compiler is the outstanding feature of FroYo. For the widespread Cortex-A8 cores, used in many high-end Android smartphones, the JIT compiler needs to be optimised. A Cortex-A8 core will still be slower than a Scorpion core at the same clock speed, but the Scorpion's advantage may not be as much 260 percent."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://androidforums.com/samsung-ca...ant-scores-why-humming-bird-doing-so-bad.html
There are multiple reasons, not optimised jit, slow memory for caching and more. Most of them are solved in the CM roms (it performs on par with the N1), and i can tell you that when Gingerbread comes it will blow the snapdragons away.
Which custom ROM provides CPU performance close to Snapdragon?
[ignore this post please]
Still the 1Ghz humming bird out performs the 1Ghz snap in real world performance
Even the LG Optimus One ARM11 600MHz Core scores better than Galaxy S. I still believe it's a software problem.
http://lgoptimusonep500.blogspot.com/2011/01/custom-rom-for-lg-optimus-one-p500.html#more
Another benchmark:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4126/nokia-http://www.anandtech.com/show/4126/nokia-n8-review-/7
...where the Nexus S proves that the Hummingbird can do more than it currrently does in Galaxy S.
Hello, I am about to buy an android phone, after patiently waiting a half year (because I've been scammed when I attempted to buy an iPhone)
So, I really love phones with a qwerty keyboard and I live in Europe.
The only phone I like right now is the Milestone, but motorola is really being a pain in the ... against us european costumers, but at least they promised us the froyo update at last. (probably because they had to, it said "Flash 10.1 compatible" on the box.)
So my question is, what is your advice for me? If I wait for the MS2 I will have 2.2 for sure, but I'll have to wait for the device to get rooted..
Right now I can buy the Milestone at a 2 year 15€/month contract. It's retail price is € 387,-
Does anyone have any idea at all about the milestone 2 pricing?
I would like to play some games on the phone like N.O.V.A. and Asphalt 5 by gameloft. But from what I've seen, the multi-touch is reaaaly messed up. Is this correct?
Greetings, Mike vHL
For myself i decided to wait Milestone 2. Buy new phone, when there is a upgrade of him its not reasonable.
Sorry for my bad english =).
Thanks, but after watching a movie, I found out that the only thing that was changed that was really of impact to me was the processor, RAM and keyboard layout.
The processor doesn't make that much of a deal to me, since the games are still quite responsive. The keyboard layout isn't that much of a deal to me either. The ram would be nice, sure, but I don't care, since I've waited too long and really want an android phone, right now xD
About the multitouching thingy, the MS2 uses the same screen, so that isn't a deal-breaker either. I'm sorry for bothering the community with my stupid question.
Greetings, Mike vHL
Mikevhl said:
Thanks, but after watching a movie, I found out that the only thing that was changed that was really of impact to me was the processor, RAM and keyboard layout.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think that the new version of milestone its a work on the bugs.
I like new proc,keyboard and ram. That why i decide to whait for the new phone.
if there were no major hardware flaws, then its not really work on bugs rather than a work on buyers pocket with a 2 on the end
I myself plan to get milestone 1 even if 2 comes out, for the following reasoning
- milestone 1 prices should drop radically
- anything they have to offer on mile2 would be an overkill for me, cause I dont even plan playing games
- design of mile1 blew me off with metal finish
- last but not least - I used all androids from 1.6version till froyo on my kaiser and tbh if they release 2.2 for mile1 with all features working well, I dont need anything else xD
Get a Milestone 1. It may sound crazy, but i "upgraded" to a Milestone from a Nexus one. Sure, the Nexus had a snapdragon, 512RAM and proper froyo roms, but the Milestone has an ARM Cortex-8 wich can go beyond 1.2Ghz with absolute reliability while the Nexus was already unstable at 1.1Ghz, it has a PowerVR GPU wich beats the crap out of the snapdragon gpu even at the default 550Mhz. I don't know who told you about the buggy multitouch, but i can tell you that the Milestone has accurate multitouch compared to the Nexus that has a serious problem that snaps axis when they get close and mess everything arround. Seriously the milestone performance is almost unbeliebable and besides that, it's got a qwerty keyboard, i have seen better keyboards (HTC Universal) but at least we have one. Once we get a proper froyo release on the Milestone, you will forget about every other single phone, but for now you can use the latest MotoFrenzy if you dont care about the camera issue, or stick arround with the good old 2.1 releases.
Edit: Ah, sorry i forgot to mention the sound quality and built-in speakers. The Milestone has the best sound quality out of all the Android phones i have tried so far. (HTC Dream, Hero, Nexus One, Xperia X10 and Desire).
Milestone2 would still have Cortex A8 ARM cpu not qualcomm snapdragon as far as I know. PowerVR should still be in the game too. the extra RAM is going to make some difference especially when more apps are running. Phone will definitely feel snappier even compared to 1.1GHz overclocked MS1 (like mine ). Not to talk its going to run Froyo which is supposed to make things even smoother.
If you want to save money - get original Milestone, if you are ok spending a bit more and willing to wait - wait for the Milestone 2. I would wait for MS2 if I were you.
I am told the updated cpu in the Droid 2 and Milestone 2 is smaller, faster, yet more battery efficient. I know the D2 gets like 9 hours of talk time vs 7 for the original Droid and that is CDMA, where it uses a bit more battery than GSM. Something to think about.
Snapdragon, A4, Samsung's 1GHz, and the Ti OMAP processors in the Droids are all based off ARM's Cortex A-8.
Newer phones are upgrades over the Milestone in regards to pure CPU speed and RAM, but all of them, except for the Milestone 2/Droid 2 with the same LCD, have inferior screens.
I consider it an "upgrade" to move from the Galaxy S to the Milestone because the latter has a much better and more usable screen, which is more important to me than anything else, but the Galaxy S does have incredible touch accuracy.
If you have the funds, then the Milestone 2 is definitely a worthy upgrade. Personally, I wouldn't change my Milestone to anything else other than the Milestone 2, an international Droid X (due to its improved CPU, RAM, and camera), and the iPhone 4 --all of which are far more expensive.
Droid X has the same amount of ram, and same exact cpu as the D2. The camera is an upgrade but it isn't that big of an upgrade from what I have read.
The Milestone2 is definitely just another Milestone but with improvements.
Both devices have the same connectivities, same screens, same features and same physical hardware. The differences are
The biggest one is:
512MB RAM vs 256MB. The new processor will run faster and can multitask much better.
Next important thing is the camera difference, its the same 5MP shooter but it now does 720p video.
After that the next important thing is the physical hardware/keyboard: personally the Milestone does have a good qwerty so I'm not sure if this is an advantage or just a tie.
The last upgrade is the CPU: 1GHz vs 550MHz stock (O'C to 1.2GHz to surpass in performance).
Honestly, you can wait ~1month from now you can get the MIUI ROM (in development by dexter and the official miui team - better than MotoBlur)
with Froyo (so it will be tie),
800MHz (this is to increase battery life while giving good performance - better than Milestone2).
Or wait ~1month to get the Milestone2 and the only advantages it really would have is the 720p video and the extra performance and multitasking (from extra RAM). If you want the GameGripper for the Droid2/Milestone2 you will also need to wait for it.
The Milestone2 will get the locked bootloader so development on it will be slow or non-exsistant. If however it gets rooted and its ROM extracted, I'm guessing the camera stack will easily be ported to the original Droid/Milestone for 720p. The only thing is the Droid/Milestone would need to be overclocked (800MHz +) to be able to capture 720p video and that may not even be enough, maybe the RAM will be the limiting factor.
Well there's the information, now go make up your mind
Actually the biggest difference is the CPU, which is faster and give it longer battery life.
But the M1 can be overclocked to match the M2 (or be close), but the 256Mb RAM limitation cannot be improved. I personally have few problems with 256 megs, but with 512, you pretty much never need to close any apps.
That maybe so, but the M2 cpu while smaller is more efficient, and faster(plus the better gpu that comes with newer chipset).
Even though the HTC desire HD and Galaxy s have the processor with 1Ghz clock speed their linpack scores vary. SGS has about 12-14 and HTC Desire HD has 35-38. Also the same case with Nexus One. Can someone help me with this dilema?
vivekrk44 said:
Even though the HTC desire HD and Galaxy s have the processor with 1Ghz clock speed their linpack scores vary. SGS has about 12-14 and HTC Desire HD has 35-38. Also the same case with Nexus One. Can someone help me with this dilema?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Simple. Linpack is optimised for snapdragon processors. I'm sure if you searched you could have solved this by yourself.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
And it's a synthetic benchmark anyway. Benchmarks are only useful if you know what exactly they are testing, they produce verbose outputs and if they test similar workloads to what you normally perform. Linpack is only somewhat useful if you only care about the speed floating point operations.
By the way, please stop saying it's optimised for snapdragon! To the best of what I've heard, that isn't the case. Snapdragons simply handle floating points better apparently. So yes, it might run better on snapdragon, but the developer probably didn't shift through the Dalvik code finding ways to speed it up on snapdragon.
We still don't really have enough information to understand if Snapdragon or hummingbird are faster in most applications, because we don't have an application similar to PCmark
Auzy said:
We still don't really have enough information to understand if Snapdragon or hummingbird are faster in most applications, because we don't have an application similar to PCmark
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know for a fact that in the "real world" the Desire HD $hits all over the SGS... I have both devices, and its very clear that the lag kills the SGS experience.
Its also worth noting, the Desire HD has the more optimised rev II Snapdragon processor. Clock for clock vs original Snapdragon, rev II is about 25% quicker...
PS - It is a shame tho, the Desire HD does not have native DIVX player support. You have to download Rockplayer for $10 to get that..
cheetah2k said:
I know for a fact that in the "real world" the Desire HD $hits all over the SGS... I have both devices, and its very clear that the lag kills the SGS experience.:
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The lag is caused by the internal memory and file system though, not the Hummingbird.
cheetah2k said:
You have to download Rockplayer for $10 to get that..
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Click to collapse
eum. Rockplayer is free.
cheetah2k said:
I know for a fact that in the "real world" the Desire HD $hits all over the SGS... I have both devices, and its very clear that the lag kills the SGS experience.
Its also worth noting, the Desire HD has the more optimised rev II Snapdragon processor. Clock for clock vs original Snapdragon, rev II is about 25% quicker...
PS - It is a shame tho, the Desire HD does not have native DIVX player support. You have to download Rockplayer for $10 to get that..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How does the desire HD handle 3D games? When i went to the HTC event in London, it wasnt really very impressive when it came to the 3D games, the SGS was clearly superior thanks to its PowerVR 540 GPU.
cheetah2k said:
I know for a fact that in the "real world" the Desire HD $hits all over the SGS... I have both devices, and its very clear that the lag kills the SGS experience.
Its also worth noting, the Desire HD has the more optimised rev II Snapdragon processor. Clock for clock vs original Snapdragon, rev II is about 25% quicker...
PS - It is a shame tho, the Desire HD does not have native DIVX player support. You have to download Rockplayer for $10 to get that..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For starters, the question was based on linpack, but you are comparing the overall device. The software has already been shown to have a large impact on the devices. Furthermore, it's running bytecode, so it depends on the dalvik implementation.Your "facts" are actually non-conclusive, and seem to be based on observations.
Secondly, 25% faster isn't enough info when you don't know how hummingbird is in comparison. And even that is total crock, because 25% under which workload? It's like saying that a mechanical harddisk is half as fast as an SSD. However, under which conditions? We KNOW that mechanical HDD's operate horribly with random access. Well, what conditions have been improved on the scorpion CPU?
The harsh reality is, we don't know how exactly they compare, and benchmarks like Linpack or Quadrant only provide a tiny picture. It's more important to identify what kind of operations you need, and test those operations specifically. What we should ask is why you care about linpack?
I'm interested in finding out how the CPU's perform exactly though honestly (even against snapdragon).
What I've seen on quadrant is that it tests all aspects of a cpu. Arithmetic of int, short, long, xml parsing, audio and video decoding and the nexus one still has a better score only in cpu. Nexus one has about 4500 and my sgs has a max of 1992. Dosent this provide the big picture?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
get CyanogenMod in SGS and try again
vivekrk44 said:
What I've seen on quadrant is that it tests all aspects of a cpu. Arithmetic of int, short, long, xml parsing, audio and video decoding and the nexus one still has a better score only in cpu. Nexus one has about 4500 and my sgs has a max of 1992. Dosent this provide the big picture?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The big picture of what exactly? That quadrant doesn't give accurate results when comparing phones? This thread is a waste of time
There's been a topic about this before. To get a proper comparison of actual MFLOPS performance of both devices, we'd need to make a comparison that is not hampered by different versions of Android software, different Linux kernels or different levels of JIT optimization.
To properly compare them, you could load Ubuntu (same version) on both devices, and have them run a properly optimized version of native UNIX Linpack. That'd actually be testing the hardware capabilities. Native UNIX Linpack runs 62+ on the iPad's 1 GHz Apple A4 (of which the execution core is said to be identical to the Hummingbird) which is over four times as much as we're getting on Android Linpack on the Hummingbird.
I'd be happy to volunteer my Galaxy S, but we'd need someone with a Snapdragon phone to do the same.
vivekrk44 said:
What I've seen on quadrant is that it tests all aspects of a cpu. Arithmetic of int, short, long, xml parsing, audio and video decoding and the nexus one still has a better score only in cpu. Nexus one has about 4500 and my sgs has a max of 1992. Dosent this provide the big picture?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope.. Because as mentioned, it still goes through the VM, and you are looking at a weighted score or does it show every component individually? Also, when you say "all aspects of the CPU", how do you know it's all aspects. The fact you mention XML parsing as a proper test is silly, because it's basic string operations (array of numbers generally).
You also forget that Android is a timesharing OS, so background processes can have an effect. When I say the overall view, I mean a total breakdown of the CPU, cache, average cycles taken for specific instructions, etc.
You can't test the CPU with Dalvik, or even the NDK. And in the case of Linpack as mentioned, it's a very specific workload. There might be CPU specific workloads which hummingbird performs significantly faster than the other processors (we don't know). All that should matter to you, is how well your apps run.
As all the smart people have said, don't trust benchmarks and also Froyo's JIT compiler isn't yet optimized for hummingbird, That will change once google plays around with the nexus s.
Since MWC is around the corner and Companies are already making announcements I ranted a bit about MultiCore phones. So like the Title says..
What do You think... Do Phones really need to have 2-4-6-8 cores?
My 2cents
To me the need for even two cores still seems over powered. My big complaint is that manufactures just want to ONE up the competition and add more and more even though it wouldn't be fully utilized by anyone in the foreseeable future.
For example. All these companies are slapping MultiCore phones and adding more ram and they aren't even really optimizing their software for the additional cores. It was android and it finally added MultiCore support with ICS, but companies were and still are releasing phones with 2cores running Froyo, Gingerbread that won't see ICS ever if not for devoted developers to Port it.
To me you can have the most fancy OS with all the Eye Candy you can think off and have it run off a Single(One) Core Processor just fine with no lag and 768MB of RAM and still have enough left for background apps if you focus on making your software efficient and optimized for that ONE core.
Look at WP7 sure its UI was over simplified, but it runs just fine with ONE core and 512MB of ram. And I've seen some very impressive Games run just fine on those phones. Unrelated to phones but look at how Windows (Desktop) handles RAM. Right now with just Chrome open with two tabs its using up 2GB of ram and this is a clean install. I just formatted my HDD and installed Chrome and updated to SP1 so there is no program prefetched. Ubuntu on this computer with just Chrome open only uses up 256-300MB of RAM because it was optimized for low ram machines. OSX86 SL on this computer only uses about about 300-500MB of ram.
So in the end all these multicore phones are doing is using up battery life to feed all these cores when the software hasn't been optimized for it. Now some processors shut off the additional cores when they aren't needed but even then only Games/apps that are aware of those cores will ever really use them.
Companies as they add more RAM and more cores add along with it bugged down crappy software and that just kills the purpose of all that power.
---
I just needed to spit this somewhere
There needs to be another high end mobile OS entering the market along with developers building more CPU demanding apps. That's the problem with android, its not universal like ios. And I don't want a apple vs android argument
Sent from the Nokia Galaxy Nexus S2 XL XE S X 3G LTE T-mo Plus with Beats Audio
I think they needs to focus on the CPU speed rather then cores. I'd rather have a dual core phone running at 3.5ghz then a quad core running at 1.2
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What I think a company should do is focus on
Software > Battery > CPU/RAM
Because if you make you software RIGHT and perfect it then right from the get go you will notice huge performance with a single dual core processor.
Just imagine HTC sense with the speed of stock ICS on the Gnex or any other phone with Dual Core 1GB ram!
If companies like HTC focused on improving their UI with performance in mind, CPU makers at the same time will evolve and develop better smaller processors and will be cheaper then making a monster out of a phone only to cage it with half as UI's that suck.... Cuz we all know that a Single Core 1Ghz processor from today beats the crap out of a similar spec one from early 2000's
I dislike Apple but i gotta give them credit for focusing on iOS more then the actual iPhone.. If Android makers did the same and improved their crapware we wouldn't call it that.
I heard the multiple cores end up saving battery, especially in regards to the Tegra 3 because it has the companion core to take care of easy tasks like email syncing while the screen is off or whatever. The extra cores kick in when they're needed too, they're not constantly running when there's nothing going on. Most of the time, the extra ones are offline (see screenshots below).
Sent from my Transformer Prime TF201 using XDA Premium.
Do we really need hexacore computers? Even though most software doesn't really benefit from them? The majority of computer games rarely put more than 2 cores to any worthy use, the OS runs quite the same with 2 or 4 cores in general and for the most part only intensive applications even benefit from it at all (photo, video, CAD, 3D and so on). We still get them though, and often enough they don't use excessively more power than the previous generation with smaller, more efficient technology. Also, try running your ubuntu setup with an 800x480 res and a comparatively weak single 1ghz, 512mb shared ram setup. It'll struggle for air.
It is good to move into this realm with phones. Play around with a Galaxy S, then with a Galaxy S 2 - both in their pure touchwiz form. The S 2 simply blows away the original. Virtually no performance hitches throughout any usage you can imagine, and this is just an upgrade from single to dual core. New designs don't use any more power than predecessors, and often save power as described above. 4 active cores when needed (completely shut off when inactive), and a seperate low-power single core when there is something basic? Genius.
I'm all for phones with as many cores as they fit, as long as the designs of tomorrow are like the designs of today. I don't see any reason why they won't be, so what's the harm?
i dont think we need 2+ cores
my nexus s out performs most dual core phone when i had it on stock 4.0.3 @ 1ghz
not im on a custom rom @ 1.4ghz... its even better
qaz2453 said:
i dont think we need 2+ cores
my nexus s out performs most dual core phone when i had it on stock 4.0.3 @ 1ghz
not im on a custom rom @ 1.4ghz... its even better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No offence but I really don't think it will, maybe at benchmarking because that's not really a full test of speed.
Dual cores and 1.5ghz seems like all we need...
I am running 1ghz on my epic4g with a nice rom and i never really have complaints about the single core and the 1ghz it always works.
Dual core would satisfy my needs
sensation lover said:
No offence but I really don't think it will, maybe at benchmarking because that's not really a full test of speed.
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Click to collapse
The Nexus S routinely beats SOME dual core phones with the right kernel and ROM. I should know, I have one. That phone with Trinity kernel is a beast.
Wasn't me!! I didn't do it!
The more the merrier!
Sent from my SGH-T989 using xda premium
For a long time i agreed with you completely, thinking more than two cores was fairly unnecessary, but after having recently looked into Ubuntu for Android and the Webtop application in the motorola atrix, i thought if our phones our powerful enough (4 or so cores), rather than have that power needlessly sitting there have our phones be able to run full desktop OS's. Ubuntu seems like the key candidate here, as i did enjoy my brief stint on there.
So too many cores does seem unnecessary just to one up the competition, but if we use that power to have a phone and desktop computer in one, then i am all for it!
qaz2453 said:
i dont think we need 2+ cores
my nexus s out performs most dual core phone when i had it on stock 4.0.3 @ 1ghz
not im on a custom rom @ 1.4ghz... its even better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it gets a higher score in a benchmark that literally measures the frequency. I have a Nexus S and no matter how much i OC it doesn't compare to something like an SGS2.
Zorigo said:
For a long time i agreed with you completely, thinking more than two cores was fairly unnecessary, but after having recently looked into Ubuntu for Android and the Webtop application in the motorola atrix, i thought if our phones our powerful enough (4 or so cores), rather than have that power needlessly sitting there have our phones be able to run full desktop OS's. Ubuntu seems like the key candidate here, as i did enjoy my brief stint on there.
So too many cores does seem unnecessary just to one up the competition, but if we use that power to have a phone and desktop computer in one, then i am all for it!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with this entirely. Android, in its current state, is a Phone OS. In time I hope to see it gain many Desktop OS attributes, and right now we can already see Desktop OSes run on the phones. There is no reason to turn Android into one, but more processor power means we can turn our phones into a mini-computer worth using at a whim.
Unlike what seems to have happened with the iPhone 4S, the android dual cores don't guzzle through the battery like no tomorrow. Battery technology in it's current state is also limited. You want more mAh? Buy a bigger battery. Anything else is more often than not just a scam.
I think not nessesary in more cores.Simply stupid marketing to get your money.
Give me more ram, give me more cores, give me a decent screen, USB host and native Ubuntu... That way
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio using Tapatalk
Give me more batary life.
animal-on said:
Give me more batary life.
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Click to collapse
Indeed, instead of making the specifications better, they should focus on improving the battery live. Really, 1 day is horse**** compared to the Nokia phones in the early 2000's..
My two cents:
I recently upgraded from a MyTouch 3G Slide to a MyTouch 4G Slide... going from a 600MHz MSM7227 Qualcomm proc to a 1.2GHz MSM8260 Dual-core SnapDragon.
Now aside from the obvious bump in speed, what impressed me the most was improved battery efficiency - partly from the proc, partly from Android improvements. From what I have seen of the new Tegra 3 SoC, it basically has four system cores and one battery saver core, that runs with minimal draw when the phone is idling.
As with PC procs, I think we'll see near future software and operating systems that are able to make greater use of multi-core setups, while saving battery life.
---------- Post added at 01:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 PM ----------
Here's a better question:
Why are hardware manufacturers so stingy with RAM and ROM!?
I can't believe that HTC or Samsung or Nokia would pay all that much more for 512MB of RAM as they would 2GB of RAM, right?
It just annoys me that we still have current onboard memory restrictions with so many devices in 2012
It's simple.If manufecturers will equip devices so fast of big memory,2 Gb for example,not so many people will buy new phone or tab.They will be waiting,because it's devices will works very fine with any apps.
I don't think people need all these extra cores, the only reason people think they do, is because stupid interfaces slowing the sh!+ out of their phones, if companies start concentrating on simpler UI, the need for all this RAM and CPU power will be gone, it's all part of the marketing plan, make things slower, tell people they need more cores, sell expensive phones and profit like a boss