Without an unlocked boot loader, which would allow for a custom kernel, we will never see substantial development on the Atrix.
Lack of (the ability to run) custom kernels prevents many of the modifications that have made Cyanogenmod and other popular ROMs appealing. (including overclocking, enhanced power management and screen color adjustments just to name a few)
The best we could hope for (without an unlocked bootloader) would be a stock version of android, devoid of all things Blur.
Luckily the latter will happen sooner rather than later, imo.
Like some other posters said, we still have hope. There are three main sources of unlocking the bootloader, I will list them here in the order I feel they are likely to actually happen chronologically:
1. Information gleaned from the LG Optimus 2X will directly translate into an unlocked bootloader on the Atrix:
If unconfirmed rumors are to be believed, the LG Optimus 2X, which runs the same Tegra 2 SOC (system on chip) as the Atrix, has already had its bootloader unlocked. With a European March release eminent (its only available in South Korea currently) it could only be a small matter of time before the same methods used to unlock the 2X fall into our hands.
2. Out of the box thinking by Developers leads to exploiting the bootloader:
Inquisitive and risky developers here at XDA have been laying waste to bootloaders and the like for years now. The Tegra 2 System On a Chip Platform is still very much in its infancy, it stands to reason that there are quite a few vulnerabilities hiding just under the surface awaiting the prodding minds of credit hungry devs.
3. Motorola makes good on their "promise" and gives us the keys to the castle:
Motorola has alluded to the possibility of releasing their secure grasp on our most prised dual core phone. Rest assured it won't literally be "keys" they give us, and more likely they will provide a flashable development bootloader accessible as a download to registered developers.
What method do you think will happen, first?
I think we may learn something from the Optimus 2X.
im feeling pessimistic about this. im not thinking its going to get cracked. hope im wrong though
The Devs always win, why would Moto release the software? Because they feel like it? Sorry they are worried about one thing and that is the bottom line, they wont do anything to help a small portion of their customer base.
You need to have an option for "DG will figure it out"
if anything we'd learn we should learn that from the XOOM, no ?
LG use the tegra 2 and all, but different company do ( lock ) things differently
oFUNGUSo said:
im feeling pessimistic about this. im not thinking its going to get cracked. hope im wrong though
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately I'm in line with you. It doesn't seem like there's any motivation for Motorola to release the keys, and from past history with their devices cracking the bootloader does not look promising.
It's a shame because this is a very good phone that just needs a little tweaking (removing Blur).
There has to be some way without the keys.. I don't know what, but it can't require just those. We need to get other developers to look at the Atrix. Like I said in the other thread, jimmydafish and maybe even koush could help DG try to find some way to bring ROMs. Even if they don't fully unlock it, just do it similar to the droid x.
Atrix4G Rooted!
the poll results speak truth.
*sad face*
its dumb too because i returned my craptivate to get this phone, and now i wont be able to do all the same cool stuff to it.
i guess i have 20 more days where i could return this and either go to the crappy again, or inspire. im juggling the idea, but the dual core, large ram and good battery life are making me lean towards just keeping this phone.....oh and the fact taht the GPS works when the crappy didnt
oFUNGUSo said:
the poll results speak truth.
*sad face*
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You sir are no economist!
But seriously... if you look at the results, an overwhelming majority believe that we will in one way or another obtain an unlocked bootloader:
66.18% of all voters think it will happen, while only 33.82 think it never will.
Have faith in the DEVs, I'm voting on option 2!
it won't be cracked, it's almost impossible, but the droid x wasn't doomed because it still has greats rom. No unlocked bootloader only means no custom kernels, not roms.
i would like those 100+ people that signed the petition about at&t's block of hsupa instead post on motorola's twitter accounts all day. the only way we MAY get an unlocked bootloader would be for moto to do it.
jruweaver said:
Have faith in the DEVs, I'm voting on option 2!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what if one of those DEVs is the ony who actually told me, and i quote:
"it wont get cracked"
oFUNGUSo said:
what if one of those DEVs is the ony who actually told me, and i quote:
"it wont get cracked"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess it depends on which dev said it.
Designgears told me more than once, and everyone else in the IRC channel that we more than likely will not be able to unlock it. Never said it was impossible, but the thing that checks the kernel and recovery, whatever it is, is lower than the bootloader, that is why the bootloader is only signed.
Out of curiosity is it possible at all to OC without cracking the boot loader and loading a new kernel? I'm pretty sure it's not but just double checking.
Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
DemonWav said:
Designgears told me more than once, and everyone else in the IRC channel that we more than likely will not be able to unlock it. Never said it was impossible, but the thing that checks the kernel and recovery, whatever it is, is lower than the bootloader, that is why the bootloader is only signed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ohhh boy.. That does not sound good at all What to do, what to do?
Give up. It's tilting windmills without a leak from within moto.
I think you mean tilting at windmills, in reference to Don Quixote tilting his lance at a windmill thinking it was an enemy.
All literary references aside, even with a "leak from within moto" the chances of unlocking the bootloader are negligible.
We had all of the documentation and files from Motorola for the Droid devices including efuse implementation and emulation on unsecured hardware, all of component files themselves for both secured and unsecured hardware and all of the firmware builds.
None of it helped unlock the bootloader. We even have the methods and tools for setting and blowing the fuses with RadioComm.
It is irrevocable once set and we have been told that Motorola themselves cannot "unlock" them. All they can do is replace the chip with an unsecured one.
Related
As some of you may have heard Google has brought out Motorola. Although the deal isn't 110% it's getting there.
Google and Android seem to pride themselves in being open, which, Motorola and it's bootloader policy are not.
I know it's a shot in the dark but hopefully we as a community can get our case known with Google and hopefully for them to release the keys to our devices.
This thread is about ideas on how to put our case forward to Google, and I don't mean spamming their social networking accounts with "FREE TEH BOOTLOADER" at least, not yet. Ideally, I would like to be as formal as possible (such a writing up and getting you guys to sign an agreement about why you want the bootloader unlock, how it would effect our user experience as well as how it would embrace the Android way of thinking - even that we would sign away our right to a warranty).
What do you guy think?
reply
wid u mahn !!!!!
had exactly the same idea the moment i heard the news. I would propose some kind of petition. Also maybe we can add comments to the official anouncement in Google blog, in an educated and informative way.
in the past 5 months I tried the following:
HTC Hero, Galaxy Vibrant,Motorola Atrix 4G, My touch 4G, Nexus 1, Sony Ericsson X8, Blackberry torch, HTC HD7 & went back to Milestone (in fact I have 2 now)..
I must say that main advantage for Milestone is two things I admire:
- fancy material & great design
- brilliant developers like Kalabadan, Feeo & Lucka
Upon trying unlocked devices such as HTC devices I found out that even for such popular Cyanogen is not that advance compared to Kalabadan work (you can check it out through xda) meaning you need both futures to get perfections (good set specifications & brilliant developers)..
Google acquiring Moto is a great news hoping our brilliant developers to stick with it.
alijs said:
in the past 5 months I tried the following:
HTC Hero, Galaxy Vibrant,Motorola Atrix 4G, My touch 4G, Nexus 1, Sony Ericsson X8, Blackberry torch, HTC HD7 & went back to Milestone (in fact I have 2 now)..
I must say that main advantage for Milestone is two things I admire:
- fancy material & great design
- brilliant developers like Kalabadan, Feeo & Lucka
Upon trying unlocked devices such as HTC devices I found out that even for such popular Cyanogen is not that advance compared to Kalabadan work (you can check it out through xda) meaning you need both futures to get perfections (good set specifications & brilliant developers)..
Google acquiring Moto is a great news hoping our brilliant developers to stick with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well Said brother Well said
a Representative should contact google
You guys need someone high ranked within XDA to prepare a short request concerning the milestone issue and send through the proper channels.
I don't know what are the proper channels, but they can be searched on google site.
In addition, I don't see why not to contact Google through G+.
Unlike Motorola, it is quite easy to contact the higher ups at Google.
Now, to the statement, any ideas on how we should start it?
Also, I would like to point out this;
"Once the acquisition is approved (later this year or early 2012), there’s one thing we know will happen to Motorola for sure: the company will continue to function just as it does now. Motorola CEO Sanjay Jha and his team will continue to lead Motorola independently from Google. Larry Page emphasized this over and over in both the blog post and conference call. “We will run Motorola as a separate business,” said Larry Page. Both companies will even have separate finance reports.
In other words, you can expect to see more of the same coming from Motorola — at least for the time being. Sadly, this means MOTOBLUR and locked bootloaders aren’t dying anytime soon. That might change in the long-term, once Google has more control over the company. But for now they’re here to stay."
http://androidandme.com/2011/08/new...ould-happen-to-motorola-after-google-buys-it/
DannyDroid said:
In other words, you can expect to see more of the same coming from Motorola — at least for the time being. Sadly, this means MOTOBLUR and locked bootloaders aren’t dying anytime soon. That might change in the long-term, once Google has more control over the company. But for now they’re here to stay."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is really verry sad, I love the hardware that motorola builds but if there is no change in this politics my next device will be from someone else.
I still hope that there will be changes once the deal is done, I love my Milestone.
There is still hope out there.
Maybe we get some leak with signing tool or keys..
They had promised to unlock the bootloader at the end of 2011 before google got into the game. I did not believe them (or they would unlock it with 6-12 months further delay), but now just maybe they keep their promise and unlock the devices when they said they would...
DannyDroid said:
As some of you may have heard Google has brought out Motorola. Although the deal isn't 110% it's getting there.
Google and Android seem to pride themselves in being open, which, Motorola and it's bootloader policy are not.
I know it's a shot in the dark but hopefully we as a community can get our case known with Google and hopefully for them to release the keys to our devices.
This thread is about ideas on how to put our case forward to Google, and I don't mean spamming their social networking accounts with "FREE TEH BOOTLOADER" at least, not yet. Ideally, I would like to be as formal as possible (such a writing up and getting you guys to sign an agreement about why you want the bootloader unlock, how it would effect our user experience as well as how it would embrace the Android way of thinking - even that we would sign away our right to a warranty).
What do you guy think?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree and will support your idea. Count on me for any help.
Is it useful to build a facebook page with name: UNLOCK BOOT LOADER, MOTO!!!? If yes, I will do that.
alijs said:
in the past 5 months I tried the following:
HTC Hero, Galaxy Vibrant,Motorola Atrix 4G, My touch 4G, Nexus 1, Sony Ericsson X8, Blackberry torch, HTC HD7 & went back to Milestone (in fact I have 2 now)..
I must say that main advantage for Milestone is two things I admire:
- fancy material & great design
- brilliant developers like Kalabadan, Feeo & Lucka
Upon trying unlocked devices such as HTC devices I found out that even for such popular Cyanogen is not that advance compared to Kalabadan work (you can check it out through xda) meaning you need both futures to get perfections (good set specifications & brilliant developers)..
Google acquiring Moto is a great news hoping our brilliant developers to stick with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agree!
_crAss_ said:
They had promised to unlock the bootloader at the end of 2011 before google got into the game. I did not believe them (or they would unlock it with 6-12 months further delay), but now just maybe they keep their promise and unlock the devices when they said they would...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any reference for their promise????
i'm with you guys.
There is a good chance that Motorola will change some of their policies by Google's influence, and we hope they start unlocking the bootloaders.
But i think a strong petition by the community will help alot.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA Premium App
_crAss_ said:
They had promised to unlock the bootloader at the end of 2011 before google got into the game. I did not believe them (or they would unlock it with 6-12 months further delay), but now just maybe they keep their promise and unlock the devices when they said they would...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Motorola never said such a thing. They did however say that start unlocking some handsets depending on unknown to the public factors.
This is a general question from me trying to understand things better. Before the D4 I had a samsung stratosphere. Completely unlocked bootloader with full capability to flash custom ROM/kernel images. Despite this no AOSP ROMs could be build due to lack of driver sources. It was the same situation with the Epic 4G. The Droid 4 on the other hand had the bootloader locked with the key thrown away. Despite this CM9 and other AOSP ROMs are up and nearly fully operational, even with ICS booting on GB kernels. What makes this possible on D4 but not the stratosphere?
My guess is that driver software is available for the D4. This is due to the fact that Motorola uses parts from other OEMs (TI CPU ect) with public drivers. Samsung on the other hand uses their own proprietary parts and keeps the drivers private. Is this an accurate assessment?
It would seem then that the most important thing to making development possible for a phone (apart from popularity) is driver availability, NOT whether or not the bootloader is unlocked. Is that true? Regardless, I will probably steer clear of samsung for future android purchases. HTC still seems best and motorola acceptable. If only HTC still made high end QWERTYs.
Usually devs just pull the proprietary files off the phone and use it in the compile/builds. This has been going on for Motorola phones since the original Droid.
Sounds like no one invested in seeing what proprietary files were needed from the Stratosphere or Epic 4G.
Public AOSP code mixed with copying in private/proprietary files is how most ROMs are made. The higher the user base of a device, the higher the development activity and the larger number of devs finding out what all is needed to be pulled from the stock device to compile a fully functional ROM.
Since some proprietary files are used....you need them for the same version OS you are building, ie...use stock phones ICS drivers for ICS builds or stock phones GB drivers for Gingerbread builds. You can sometimes hack drivers to work but with lots of limitations. Also drivers depend on the kernel so a matching kernel is needed......requiring the device to have the needed kernel level or an unlocked bootloader to be able to replace the stock kernel.
We wont be seeing an unlocked bootloader? Ever?
Sent from my DROID4 using xda premium
twizzles said:
We wont be seeing an unlocked bootloader? Ever?
Sent from my DROID4 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All signs point to no...we will never see an unlocked bootloader on the current Motorola devices.
With Google owning Motorola Mobility and already replacing MM CEO with one of their own from Google........it's possible future devices may be unlock capable.
Current devices....no, not ever.
The first locked bootloader on a Motorola droid was the Droid 2. It still has not been unlocked, hacked, cracked, etc... How long has it been out?
Motorola released a special Razr Dev model with an unlockable bootloader...retail price, zero warranty, nothing you do on it would transfer over to the normal Razr or Razr Maxx.......so why would anyone buy it? Great PR for them to say "see..we released an unlockable device and no one bought it".
Well that just sucks. Thank you for the info
Sent from my DROID4 using xda premium
I have to say, I don't mind not having an unlocked bootloader. I had the Galaxy Nexus and ran multiple different setups on it. The radio still sucked though. With the Droid 4, I don't feel the need to do a lot of hacking. The phone is well built, radio is awesome, it just works.
GermanGuy said:
I have to say, I don't mind not having an unlocked bootloader. I had the Galaxy Nexus and ran multiple different setups on it. The radio still sucked though. With the Droid 4, I don't feel the need to do a lot of hacking. The phone is well built, radio is awesome, it just works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I kind of agree with you for the most, but still I prefer the option and think we should have it as an option. It's one way to keep a device relevant throughout your 2 year contract. For example....the Droid 3. I have one, bought online day of release. In less than a years time it has become a non-supported, forgotten device from Motorola. The locked bootloader prevents devs from picking apart the Droid 4 leaked ICS kernel and compiling one with Droid 3 specs (less RAM, etc..) and bringing a fully functional ICS build to the Droid 3. Unlocked...that would be possible.
JKingDev said:
This is a general question from me trying to understand things better. Before the D4 I had a samsung stratosphere. Completely unlocked bootloader with full capability to flash custom ROM/kernel images. Despite this no AOSP ROMs could be build due to lack of driver sources. It was the same situation with the Epic 4G. The Droid 4 on the other hand had the bootloader locked with the key thrown away. Despite this CM9 and other AOSP ROMs are up and nearly fully operational, even with ICS booting on GB kernels. What makes this possible on D4 but not the stratosphere?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, as well, went from the Stratosphere to the Droid 4. I love my Stratosphere and still have it, but the lack of development on it is just down right aggravating. That is why I took it upon myself to learn how to compile a kernel to provide everyone with root and recovery for it. Otherwise we wouldn't have the ROMs we have for it now. If it wasn't for the Droid Charge using the exact same dev board as the Strat, I doubt we'd even have that much. I had to take the Charge build of CWM and packed it in a Strat kernel and tweaked the scripts, thank god at least that worked.
JKingDev said:
My guess is that driver software is available for the D4. This is due to the fact that Motorola uses parts from other OEMs (TI CPU ect) with public drivers. Samsung on the other hand uses their own proprietary parts and keeps the drivers private. Is this an accurate assessment?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am not sure about the Motorola drivers, but you are right about Samsung. The first time I compiled the kernel, I was missing 11 modules. I couldn't figure out what I did to keep them from being compiled... and then I learned the sneakiness Samsung uses to get around releasing the source, they compile the kernels for the file system and radios and dynamically link them in the init.rc script. Apparently a lot of them do this, actually.
JKingDev said:
It would seem then that the most important thing to making development possible for a phone (apart from popularity) is driver availability, NOT whether or not the bootloader is unlocked. Is that true?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually both are true to some extent, with a locked bootloader you are stuck with OEM signed boot images and can't recompile the kernel to your own needs, or compiling one with ro.secure = 0 so you get root access in adb (which is how I rooted the Stratosphere). Then you need the drivers to talk to the hardware too. Without them, you'd need to reverse engineer them or use the currently complied ones (also, like we did with the Strat). Finally, you have to have the source for the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) in Android so Android as an OS knows how to talk to the drivers to make calls, send messages, use data, etc. THIS is where we are currently hung up from using AOSP on the Stratosphere. I know work is being done on the RIL for the Charge and since its the same board, we might get lucky and be able to reuse most (if not all) of the same code and bring new life to it. But, I wasn't getting my hopes up and decided to get a D4 anyway.
JKingDev said:
Regardless, I will probably steer clear of samsung for future android purchases. HTC still seems best and motorola acceptable. If only HTC still made high end QWERTYs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You and me both. I was in love with the keyboard on my HTC Touch Pro 2 and wish they'd release something like that running Android on Verizon with newer hardware. Closest they had to a QWERTY on VZ was the Merge, and they botched that up from the gate. I also have the Rezound and am trying to design a way to attach a sliding keyboard to the back battery cover to give me something closer to what i have been wanting in a phone.
I think us QWERTY loves on VZ are at the mercy of Motorola and Motorola alone with the original Droid line of sliders.
KnightCrusader said:
I, as well, went from the Stratosphere to the Droid 4. I love my Stratosphere and still have it, but the lack of development on it is just down right aggravating. That is why I took it upon myself to learn how to compile a kernel to provide everyone with root and recovery for it. Otherwise we wouldn't have the ROMs we have for it now. If it wasn't for the Droid Charge using the exact same dev board as the Strat, I doubt we'd even have that much. I had to take the Charge build of CWM and packed it in a Strat kernel and tweaked the scripts, thank god at least that worked.
I am not sure about the Motorola drivers, but you are right about Samsung. The first time I compiled the kernel, I was missing 11 modules. I couldn't figure out what I did to keep them from being compiled... and then I learned the sneakiness Samsung uses to get around releasing the source, they compile the kernels for the file system and radios and dynamically link them in the init.rc script. Apparently a lot of them do this, actually.
Actually both are true to some extent, with a locked bootloader you are stuck with OEM signed boot images and can't recompile the kernel to your own needs, or compiling one with ro.secure = 0 so you get root access in adb (which is how I rooted the Stratosphere). Then you need the drivers to talk to the hardware too. Without them, you'd need to reverse engineer them or use the currently complied ones (also, like we did with the Strat). Finally, you have to have the source for the RIL (Radio Interface Layer) in Android so Android as an OS knows how to talk to the drivers to make calls, send messages, use data, etc. THIS is where we are currently hung up from using AOSP on the Stratosphere. I know work is being done on the RIL for the Charge and since its the same board, we might get lucky and be able to reuse most (if not all) of the same code and bring new life to it. But, I wasn't getting my hopes up and decided to get a D4 anyway.
You and me both. I was in love with the keyboard on my HTC Touch Pro 2 and wish they'd release something like that running Android on Verizon with newer hardware. Closest they had to a QWERTY on VZ was the Merge, and they botched that up from the gate. I also have the Rezound and am trying to design a way to attach a sliding keyboard to the back battery cover to give me something closer to what i have been wanting in a phone.
I think us QWERTY loves on VZ are at the mercy of Motorola and Motorola alone with the original Droid line of sliders.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the replies. It is interesting stuff. And KC I definitely appreciated your work on the Strat. So I guess it really was a question of popularity being the problem for stratosphere. I definitely know it wasnt the most popular device but it also seemed like reverse engineering drivers for the Samsung devices was so much harder. The charge was relatively popular and years later the RIL has still not been successfully reverse engineered. All the moto devices get cracked so quickly. Is it only because they are more popular, or are there other reasons that make them easier to hack? Thats what leads me to think maybe it's samsung's use of proprietary hardware that makes things more difficult. Does that have something to do with it?
Could someone please explain the consequences of having a locked BL? Especially wrt to the Moto X? Also, what is this SS that everyone keeps talking about?
TIA
I've been in your situation before and couldn't find help or answers, phone makers sign there software with a signature when it boots so when the phone loads it looks for that signature and won't load unless the os had that signature. When your boatloader is locked it means you can't install custom roms or fully root your phone, people have to find an exploit to root it, like case's rockmymoto exploit. SS is safe strap and it is a workaround for installing custom roms on a locked boatloader phone.
Sent from my XT1055 using xda app-developers app
charlie-n said:
I've been in your situation before and couldn't find help or answers, phone makers sign there software with a signature when it boots so when the phone loads it looks for that signature and won't load unless the os had that signature. When your boatloader is locked it means you can't install custom roms or fully root your phone, people have to find an exploit to root it, like case's rockmymoto exploit. SS is safe strap and it is a workaround for installing custom roms on a locked boatloader phone.
Sent from my XT1055 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So basically then, something like the AT&T moto x can be rooted by using the rockmymoto exploit, but custom ROMs have to be made specifically to support SS?
Seeing as how I dont think development for the Moto X isnt going to take off on a major scale (like, say the Nexus), it would make no difference having a locked or unlocked BL, am I right?
anirudh412 said:
So basically then, something like the AT&T moto x can be rooted by using the rockmymoto exploit, but custom ROMs have to be made specifically to support SS?
Seeing as how I dont think development for the Moto X isnt going to take off on a major scale (like, say the Nexus), it would make no difference having a locked or unlocked BL, am I right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well there are several roms out there for unlocked BL currently. The reason to have a unlocked BL: if you want to flash roms a lot, if you want to make sure that you always can have root (sometimes exploits for a FW won't come out), and if you want complete control over your phone.
Much less dev will be done for SS roms because people are finding it difficult to build them I believe. I only use SS to keep root and take newer otas, or run roms like eclipse that are based off of stock FW, then just trimmed down with added features and lots more.
If you have the money, having an unlocked BL is nice because you don't need exploits for roots and other things. I would go with one if money wasn't an issue purely for that fact. Not sure how they are getting OTAs right now, but sometimes unlocked BLs also get OTAs quicker than locked BLs. And they can always flash the OTA if there is a leak. You can also always downgrade your device to a different FW if you want with an unlocked BL.
jayboyyyy said:
well there are several roms out there for unlocked BL currently. The reason to have a unlocked BL: if you want to flash roms a lot, if you want to make sure that you always can have root (sometimes exploits for a FW won't come out), and if you want complete control over your phone.
Much less dev will be done for SS roms because people are finding it difficult to build them I believe. I only use SS to keep root and take newer otas, or run roms like eclipse that are based off of stock FW, then just trimmed down with added features and lots more.
If you have the money, having an unlocked BL is nice because you don't need exploits for roots and other things. I would go with one if money wasn't an issue purely for that fact. Not sure how they are getting OTAs right now, but sometimes unlocked BLs also get OTAs quicker than locked BLs. And they can always flash the OTA if there is a leak. You can also always downgrade your device to a different FW if you want with an unlocked BL.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Money isnt the issue here. The thing is the Moto X isnt available in my country, but someone is selling their AT&T moto on local ebay. I jumped ship from using android for so many years to an iPhone 5 (my current phone) because I just wanted a phone I could use. Kinda grew tired of flashing ROMS and kernels all the time. The Moto X hits the sweet spot with the perfect size and stutter free operation. To me, this is the perfect android phone. All I need is root and a custom launcher. That is available for the AT&T phones I believe? And as you said, ECLIPSE is available for me to flash if I feel like.
Other than that, apps like lightflow and others dont differentiate b/w locked and unlocked BLs, do they?
anirudh412 said:
Could someone please explain the consequences of having a locked BL? Especially wrt to the Moto X? Also, what is this SS that everyone keeps talking about?
TIA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Straight from the man himself in regards to SafeStrap.
http://rootzwiki.com/topic/104161-recovery-locked-safestrap-recovery-v365-2013-11-13/
Any locked BL users care to give their 0.02 about life with a locked BL? :silly:
anirudh412 said:
Money isnt the issue here. The thing is the Moto X isnt available in my country, but someone is selling their AT&T moto on local ebay. I jumped ship from using android for so many years to an iPhone 5 (my current phone) because I just wanted a phone I could use. Kinda grew tired of flashing ROMS and kernels all the time. The Moto X hits the sweet spot with the perfect size and stutter free operation. To me, this is the perfect android phone. All I need is root and a custom launcher. That is available for the AT&T phones I believe? And as you said, ECLIPSE is available for me to flash if I feel like.
Other than that, apps like lightflow and others dont differentiate b/w locked and unlocked BLs, do they?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
before you pull the trigger make sure the phone will work in your area. IDK about all of the other country phone stuff, but I have seen people posting about what lte bands and radios each different model of the moto x can support. Also, some models you can flash other carriers FW on them, some you can't. And if you buy some models with for some carriers, you can unlock the BL then move it to ATT or whatever service you are using. Like i said, IDK about all of that so that will take some reading and investigating on your part.
I also don't know about lightflow, but basically once you have root, all rooted apps should be able to do what they do. I personally know of nothing that requires an unlocked BL to work (besides flashing roms, kernals, radios, or other stuff). Just root. I'm assuming lightflow is like any other app that requires root. Don't believe any app should ever be changing anything to your bootloader (besides exploits that come in the form of an app).
Im on a lock BL fyi. Had the money for the dev but once root came out for the phone, I decided to go with subsidized. All I wanted was root. And it seems kitkat will have a root exploit made by jcase so im not worried about the future either.
jayboyyyy said:
before you pull the trigger make sure the phone will work in your area. IDK about all of the other country phone stuff, but I have seen people posting about what lte bands and radios each different model of the moto x can support. Also, some models you can flash other carriers FW on them, some you can't. And if you buy some models with for some carriers, you can unlock the BL then move it to ATT or whatever service you are using. Like i said, IDK about all of that so that will take some reading and investigating on your part.
I also don't know about lightflow, but basically once you have root, all rooted apps should be able to do what they do. I personally know of nothing that requires an unlocked BL to work (besides flashing roms, kernals, radios, or other stuff). Just root. I'm assuming lightflow is like any other app that requires root. Don't believe any app should ever be changing anything to your bootloader (besides exploits that come in the form of an app).
I'm on a lock BL fyi. Had the money for the dev but once root came out for the phone, I decided to go with subsidized. All I wanted was root. And it seems kitkat will have a root exploit made by jcase so im not worried about the future either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, it just occurred to me I wouldn't need lightflow on the MotoX, it doesn't have a notification light
Either way, even if I do have an unlocked BL, flashing AOSP is out of the question as I wouldnt want to miss out on Active Notifs and always listening G Now. Stock ROM with a few tweaks is all I need.
Under ideal situations (read global release of perhaps the best android phone to date), I wouldn't be in this predicament.
jayboyyyy said:
Im on a lock BL fyi. Had the money for the dev but once root came out for the phone, I decided to go with subsidized. All I wanted was root. And it seems kitkat will have a root exploit made by jcase so im not worried about the future either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
May I take the liberty of asking which phones have you used before? I have read a few threads and the general consensus is that this phone is smoother than the 'so-called' flagships like the GS4 and the One. Would you happen to agree? As I said before, I just need a phone that works without lag. I am not a heavy user by any means. Texting, whatsapp and a few occasional games like the Clash of Clans. The GPU is quite capable from what I have heard
anirudh412 said:
May I take the liberty of asking which phones have you used before? I have read a few threads and the general consensus is that this phone is smoother than the 'so-called' flagships like the GS4 and the One. Would you happen to agree? As I said before, I just need a phone that works without lag. I am not a heavy user by any means. Texting, whatsapp and a few occasional games like the Clash of Clans. The GPU is quite capable from what I have heard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ya the phone is just as quick if not quicker than those flagship phones. while its hardware is not "superior" the code behind everything and the processors set up how they are make it just as snappy as those other phones. I never owned either of the two you described but I have played with them all for enough time. You won't be disappointed with the phone at all. A lot of people think it is the best android phone generally that has been released. I;'m in that boat. Closes equivalent to an apple product (flow , feel, etc) that I have used. Those other phones are great as well. Id go htc one over sg4. I was about to buy those phones but then held out to see when/if the moto x was going to be released. Glad I did. went with this phone over those. The size of the phone is perfect for me. I don't like huge screens that barely fit in my pcoket. Battery life is solid (i dont use this things for 6 hours a day like others, not sure how they generate an income ha). the features are amazing and change how you use your phone. Truely the first phone I have seen that released some cool features that were extremely useful and not just eye candy. Google backing moto is a big plus too, you know that if anyone is going to get good treatment, it will at least have to be moto. take the plunge, no chance you will regret it.
jayboyyyy said:
ya the phone is just as quick if not quicker than those flagship phones. while its hardware is not "superior" the code behind everything and the processors set up how they are make it just as snappy as those other phones. I never owned either of the two you described but I have played with them all for enough time. You won't be disappointed with the phone at all. A lot of people think it is the best android phone generally that has been released. I;'m in that boat. Closes equivalent to an apple product (flow , feel, etc) that I have used. Those other phones are great as well. Id go htc one over sg4. I was about to buy those phones but then held out to see when/if the moto x was going to be released. Glad I did. went with this phone over those. The size of the phone is perfect for me. I don't like huge screens that barely fit in my pcoket. Battery life is solid (i dont use this things for 6 hours a day like others, not sure how they generate an income ha). the features are amazing and change how you use your phone. Truely the first phone I have seen that released some cool features that were extremely useful and not just eye candy. Google backing moto is a big plus too, you know that if anyone is going to get good treatment, it will at least have to be moto. take the plunge, no chance you will regret it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you so much for taking the time to help me out. Moto X, here I come :highfive:
Appears this is where we come to an end with development and rooting. All other g4s have been Rooted on Android m. We just don't have any love for this device. Appears we all messed up when we chose sprint as our carrier. Argh!
Wat, who are you? What makes you think you can make that call? There are people that spent countless hours making ROMs and Developing for the Sprint LG G4 and you think you have the final say?
Quoting what you said just in case you edit you post: "Appears this is where we come to an end with development and rooting. All other g4s have been Rooted on Android m. We just don't have any love for this device. Appears we all messed up when we chose sprint as our carrier. Argh!" with screenshot: http://i.imgur.com/DxsEmvG.png
Not the right way to think, just wait. Have you contributed in anyway to the Sprint LG G4 here on XDA? I sure have with my free hotspot bug (patched on Android M).
I highly doubt Verizon G4 is rooted on m.
In fact I don't think they even have Marshmallow update yet.
what is so appealing in Marshmallow to make one want to upgrade urgently? If you have stable L with root and xposed, why not staying with it. I do not think there is Xposed for M anyways yet, which is the main reason to root this phone.
I am with you. This phone is the most disappointing tech purchase in all my years of existence. I love the camera and removable battery but this phone is just crap and doesn't get much dev love. I beat if the bootloader got unlocked and I can load a true rom on it this phone would be great. I think most of the problems is LG's crappy modifications to android. Every time it get slow, unresponsive, the touch screen lags behind, or a stupid Sprint notification advertisement pops up I want to chuck it against a wall and then jump off a cliff.
I am just using this as a rude awakening to the future. This will most likely be one of the last phones that isn't sealed tight. Guess I need to carry around a clunky battery pack with cable dangling from my pockets instead of a small quick batter swap. Rooting and unlocking the bootloader will become ever more difficult with upcoming phones. The glory days are over I feel
centran said:
I am with you. This phone is the most disappointing tech purchase in all my years of existence. I love the camera and removable battery but this phone is just crap and doesn't get much dev love. I beat if the bootloader got unlocked and I can load a true rom on it this phone would be great. I think most of the problems is LG's crappy modifications to android. Every time it get slow, unresponsive, the touch screen lags behind, or a stupid Sprint notification advertisement pops up I want to chuck it against a wall and then jump off a cliff.
I am just using this as a rude awakening to the future. This will most likely be one of the last phones that isn't sealed tight. Guess I need to carry around a clunky battery pack with cable dangling from my pockets instead of a small quick batter swap. Rooting and unlocking the bootloader will become ever more difficult with upcoming phones. The glory days are over I feel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I disabled and uninstalled everything I could with sprint software. Haven't had any of their pop ups in months. It seems you bought a phone in one of the bad batches with your lagging screen.
I hate their UI though...
One of the best phones I've had in terms of specs etc. Would be something if I could run CM13 on this one day..
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
I don't have Android M on my phone yet....
...so maybe I can keep my hopes up. Sprint didn't give me Marshmallow on my phone. I'm not begging for it either. From what I'm gathering here, you're all good if you're on Lollipop (5.1) Right?
EmSeeMAC said:
I disabled and uninstalled everything I could with sprint software. Haven't had any of their pop ups in months. It seems you bought a phone in one of the bad batches with your lagging screen.
I hate their UI though...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep I had a bad batch phone and it was before Sprint admitted the problem so I sent it to LG. LG fixed my phone but did not replace it. That is probably the big problem. Now I have a phone that is only having lagging problems and since that is subjective and random so not easily repeatable I am screwed.
SeeLaH said:
...so maybe I can keep my hopes up. Sprint didn't give me Marshmallow on my phone. I'm not begging for it either. From what I'm gathering here, you're all good if you're on Lollipop (5.1) Right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We do have Marshmallow, but the OTA is taking reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally long.
I just got the notification a few minutes ago for the update. I'm from Michigan and figured I was one of the last places to get it but I guess not. Newho, I've read that there's gonna be more dev work on our g4 but they were waiting for Android m to come out before they focused their energy to cracking the bootloader. Stay patient as the carriers are getting wise to what our devs have been doing and they try to seal up the phone to keep us out. But when there's a will there's a way and it will happen eventually.
Well I'm hoping for ultrapop marshmallow, lol. The phone stock was fine and ultrapop was perfect for me. Would be nice to have cm in this phone but ultrapop was all I really need.
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
esloudan said:
Well I'm hoping for ultrapop marshmallow, lol. The phone stock was fine and ultrapop was perfect for me. Would be nice to have cm in this phone but ultrapop was all I really need.
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't think that's gonna happen, as MM security is the reason we don't even have systemless root yet. UltraPop relies on changing the system partition, which the Lollipop boot sequence isn't as strong. in MM as soon as the system partition is changed, it causes hashes and whatnot to change, the boot sequence detects the changes and doesn't allow the phone to boot. I think we'll need an unlocked bootloader for UP-type "pseudo-roms"
natator99 said:
Don't think that's gonna happen, as MM security is the reason we don't even have systemless root yet. UltraPop relies on changing the system partition, which the Lollipop boot sequence isn't as strong. in MM as soon as the system partition is changed, it causes hashes and whatnot to change, the boot sequence detects the changes and doesn't allow the phone to boot. I think we'll need an unlocked bootloader for UP-type "pseudo-roms"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. I was able to work-around the system partition in ZV6 because LG security only checked for certain files were present. In ZV8, there is LG security checksum for the whole system partition. Since we have a locked bootloader, we can't modify Kernel without tripping the boot security. I am still going to try to get a modified stock ROM working, or maybe mix of ZV6/ZV8, but have not had much time lately.
Roms for our phone? please tell me where roms are at for our phone. i only see 1. that is still stock. ultrapop
Go to the Sprint Fun and Games app and hit the menu button, then settings, then deselect the box Atuomatically install Zone / Fun & Game updates and the notifications boxes. Super disappointed in Sprint for having this.
centran said:
I am with you. This phone is the most disappointing tech purchase in all my years of existence. I love the camera and removable battery but this phone is just crap and doesn't get much dev love. I beat if the bootloader got unlocked and I can load a true rom on it this phone would be great. I think most of the problems is LG's crappy modifications to android. Every time it get slow, unresponsive, the touch screen lags behind, or a stupid Sprint notification advertisement pops up I want to chuck it against a wall and then jump off a cliff.
I am just using this as a rude awakening to the future. This will most likely be one of the last phones that isn't sealed tight. Guess I need to carry around a clunky battery pack with cable dangling from my pockets instead of a small quick batter swap. Rooting and unlocking the bootloader will become ever more difficult with upcoming phones. The glory days are over I feel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This phone has plenty of "dev love". Some of the best developers are trying their hand at it. There's a huge bounty for unlocking the bootloader, and plenty of people trying to earn it.
The problem is, until one of them (or the part timers like me) stumble across something that works, we're in a holding pattern. We have something stable that works in Android L with root and xposed framework, and until the bootloader issue is solved, that will have to do.
Be patient, OR hit the general Android development section and LEARN. Do it yourself. Grab the bounty. There's plenty of us doing what we can, even as far as hard bricking our devices and getting them replaced by trying methods that work for other devices. I myself am on my second LS991 from trying a method that worked on the kindle fire where you get into fastboot by nuking laf and still haven't had any luck getting a patched bootloader to stick.
So cool off and have some patience. Some people haven't even had the official OTA roll out to their area yet and you're crying that you don't have rooted M? Grow up.
+1
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
---------- Post added at 09:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:41 PM ----------
agentfusion said:
This phone has plenty of "dev love". Some of the best developers are trying their hand at it. There's a huge bounty for unlocking the bootloader, and plenty of people trying to earn it.
The problem is, until one of them (or the part timers like me) stumble across something that works, we're in a holding pattern. We have something stable that works in Android L with root and xposed framework, and until the bootloader issue is solved, that will have to do.
Be patient, OR hit the general Android development section and LEARN. Do it yourself. Grab the bounty. There's plenty of us doing what we can, even as far as hard bricking our devices and getting them replaced by trying methods that work for other devices. I myself am on my second LS991 from trying a method that worked on the kindle fire where you get into fastboot by nuking laf and still haven't had any luck getting a patched bootloader to stick.
So cool off and have some patience. Some people haven't even had the official OTA roll out to their area yet and you're crying that you don't have rooted M? Grow up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
LG will not be unlocking any other G4's except the Euro H815.
Hello,
Thank you for your interest in LG mobile devices.
Currently, you can only unlock bootloader for LG G4 for the European market with model number H815.
And we have no plan to support bootloader unlocking for H815T.
If there are any changes to the supported devices, we will let you know via our website.
Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
DaemeonZane said:
LG will not be unlocking any other G4's except the Euro H815.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And? That doesn't mean they can't be unlocked by other means. It just means LG will not be providing the binary file for oem-unlock via fastboot. Some of us have already gotten limited fastboot access by willingly destroying the laf partition and using a serial USB connection. Right now I'm working on trying to figure out how to get access to other fastboot commands not available in this limited mode, then it's just a matter of creating a reliable semi-automated process so it's accessible to less technical users, and if no one beats me to it; collecting the bounty on a reliable bootloader unlock and ability to flash recovery and make it stick. (Which, to be absolutely honest ... Though I'm not working with anyone else, I would not have gotten *anywhere* without ideas others have bounced around on these forums that helped me make progress when stuck, so I will contact each of them privately to divide half of the bounty between them if I am first to be able to collect it)
I remember there was some rom development for the moto z play when I had it. There seems to be no interest for this 3rd generation model. Is there something like an uncrackable, locked bootloader that's stopping developers in their tracks or just no interest in kernels and tweaked roms?
Perhaps some, but from what I've seen, (and I've owned Moto X, Z, Z2play and now this one) there's not a whole lot of development. Some, but not much. Probably because the OS is very vanilla and smooth, for one. And two, unfortunately, they are just not very popular devices.
On the Moto X, most seemed to want to just root and use xposed, and stay stock. Otherwise cool proprietary Moto apps and functions were lost. Not available on custom roms.
The fact that downgrading is near impossible without bricking doesn't help either.
Warranty is void when you unlock bootloader on Moto's site and that probably deters many from messing with the device too.
But this phone is very new still, hopefully some development starts up. Just may take more time, cause it's not that popular and not as many own it. Developers may not be buying it cause it's the 3rd generation now and they've seen that it's not that popular in the past. Time will tell.
Oh, and if mod use is affected by custom roms, that would be a huge roadblock too. For many folks anyways.
When do you think root will be available for this phone? That is what I am waiting for before I buy it.
G.I. Jew said:
When do you think root will be available for this phone? That is what I am waiting for before I buy it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably not until a developer or two get this device and work on it.
Problem is, it's 3rd generation, and developers know that development is quiet on the Z's. Many Moto's really. So they choose a more popular device in many cases.
Hopefully we see some action soon though! Or learn to do for ourselves.
...delete me
Just bought this phone and will see about development, I want to get back into it, the only thing I built before was a kernel for Surnia , development is very different nowadays so if it's not to hard count me in.
Hopefully we can get twrp/root. Viper would be awesome on this phone! Thinking about this phone but I AM NOT GOING TO THROW AWAY HARDWARE WARRENTY TO UNLOCK BOOTLOADER. Oneplus 6 looks better but sucks with no fm radio/duel stereo speakers/sd card.
input?? opionion??
vq8acsxht said:
Hopefully we can get twrp/root. Viper would be awesome on this phone! Thinking about this phone but I AM NOT GOING TO THROW AWAY HARDWARE WARRENTY TO UNLOCK BOOTLOADER. Oneplus 6 looks better but sucks with no fm radio/duel stereo speakers/sd card.
input?? opionion??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You won't have root then on this device, if it becomes an option. Have to unlock bootloader, which kills your warranty.
Darth said:
You won't have root then on this device, if it becomes an option. Have to unlock bootloader, which kills your warranty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder about this, has there been a case where a manufacturer refused to repair a phone because of warranty root wise?
That is what I am wondering, also. I do not mind them killing the software support. Besides, sounds fony bolony that a person rooting can mess up software that factory reset can't fix. On the other hand, TWRP can brick a phone by flashing things. But if GPS/screen dies, that is not because of TWRP/flashing things, that is because chips have failed aka. hardware failure. What can cause hardware/cpu's failure is bring cpu's up to 100% and leaving there or overclocking them but who would do that? I think a custom ROM is easier on the processors because of all the stock crapware that continues digging for hours on hours for private information making the phone hot. The facebook app is the one that made my phone warm and when I killed it with a root uninstaller, the phone cooled back down.
vq8acsxht said:
That is what I am wondering, also. I do not mind them killing the software support. Besides, sounds fony bolony that a person rooting can mess up software that factory reset can't fix. On the other hand, TWRP can brick a phone by flashing things. But if GPS/screen dies, that is not because of TWRP/flashing things, that is because chips have failed aka. hardware failure. What can cause hardware/cpu's failure is bring cpu's up to 100% and leaving there or overclocking them but who would do that? I think a custom ROM is easier on the processors because of all the stock crapware that continues digging for hours on hours for private information making the phone hot. The facebook app is the one that made my phone warm and when I killed it with a root uninstaller, the phone cooled back down.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually recent Motos are easy to brick if you do things wrong. Particularly trying to downgrade firmware. Check Out other moto sections, lots of "help I bricked my phone" threads. Many can be fixed by us, but how many don't even try and send it in under warranty?
So that's one definite reason to deny warranty. Though its not directly related to rooting.
I agree. I think they panic and need the phone to work. I like Samsung or Alcatel way of restore the phone to stock. Samsung especially. Turn phone off and plug it into the computer and send firmware to phone. I just wonder why newbies do not read and understand how to restore phone to stock BEFORE touching the phone. They do not ask themselves, "Do I have ALL OF THE TOOLS" to restore phone to factory settings/firmware and "Do I have the firmware". They just want to know how to do mods to phone to see what other tricks the phone can do. Roll over, but DO NOT PLAY DEAD! Crap, "My phone just died". Warranty, where's the warranty card and phone number, now?
vq8acsxht said:
Hopefully we can get twrp/root. Viper would be awesome on this phone! Thinking about this phone but I AM NOT GOING TO THROW AWAY HARDWARE WARRENTY TO UNLOCK BOOTLOADER. Oneplus 6 looks better but sucks with no fm radio/duel stereo speakers/sd card.
input?? opionion??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you a time-traveler who just appeared here naked in the streets, behind a dumpster, with only memories of 2010 in your head?
(Just checking...)
"Viper would be AWESOME on this phone!"
Lolololol-plop.
+ And "TWRP"??
What year *did* the EVO 3D come out anyway?
yourbrotherrex said:
Are you a time-traveler who just appeared here naked in the streets, behind a dumpster, with only memories of 2010 in your head?
(Just checking...)
"Viper would be AWESOME on this phone!"
Lolololol-plop.
+ And "TWRP"??
What year *did* the EVO 3D come out anyway?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@Darth. If you can translate what the crack pot is saying, thank you. I do not speak pot head, sorry. Not unless he/she/it is infering that he/she/it has just rooted/twrp with viperfx installed?