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So I have been giving a lot of thought to this subject ever since reading a few articles a couple of weeks back about the CEO of Google Eric Schmidt saying that they have no plans on making a "Nexus Two." Not only this, but Google stating that they will no longer sell the Nexus One direct and unlocked from the www.google.com/phone store. My question is, does this threaten the Android platform in the future. I personally think it won't because Android will continue to live on, but the open Android that we have come to know and love today will be jeopardized. This is why I decided to start this thread to see how others feel about this subject and ask some important questions about the fate of Android.
To start off we really have to see what Google's Nexus One brought to the world of Android to be able to see what we will be missing if there is no "Google phone" in the future. On January 5, 2010 Google threw a press conference where it called it's new baby the Nexus One a "superphone" and ever since then the i has been in the news having every flaw dissected and blown out of proportion by tech blogs all around the web. Yes, the Nexus One had some big flaws like the multitouch screen, early T-Mobile 3G problems, No multitouch pinch to zoom (now changed), and even the pentile arrangement of pixels on the AMOLED screen, but it also was the first in the smartphone world (unless you count the HD2, but we are talking about Android not WM in this discussion) to have a lot of huge features that now started this Android revolution. It had a powerful Snapdragon 1 Ghz processor (up to this point the biggest we had was the Droid with an Arm Cortex A8 550 mhz processor), 3.7 inch AMOLED screen (WVGA 800x480 pixels) , 512 mb of RAM (most had 256mb RAM), 5mp camera (with LED flash and 720x480 video capture), and one of the lightest (130 grams with battery), sleekest 119mm heidth by 59.8mm depth), and thinnest (11.5mm) phones on the market. The Droid paved the road and the Nexus One showed OEM's what the top of the line Android phone must have to compete in specs. The Nexus One launched with Eclair 2.1 and was the first to bring it to the world. A couple months after launch Google gave pinch to zoom multitouch to the Nexus One and this allowed other phones like the Droid and now most of the Android phones available to get this much desired feature. Perhaps one of the best features of the phone was that it launched with an unlocked bootloader and introduced the world to the adb command "fastboot oem unlock." I know that are beloved developers have been unlocking the full potential of phones since the Windows Mobile days, but Android has brought that even further. Since then the Nexus One has quickly become the dev phone of the Android world. If you don't like a feature simply change it or flash a different ROM. This wonderful world that the great developers in the Android community work so hard to bring to us is really the "killer feature" of the Android OS and this is being threatened by not having anymore "Google phones." Lately we are seeing companies like Motorola and Verizon using eFuse to lock down their phones and keeping people that spend their hard earned money from flashing ROM's. I am sure the whole eFuse thing has been blown out of proportion and I am sure the next Android superstar (or one of the many we already have here on XDA) will unlock the Droid X to it's full potential, but the mere fact that these companies are locking down phones using the FREE Android OS is very disheartening. We don't want the same cat and mouse game that Apple and their iPhone customers have to play to unlock and use their phones and this is one of the many reasons people flock to the open Android OS.
Not only do we risk "locking down" the platform, but by not having any further Nexus phones we will more than likely never see another Vanilla Android phone. Instead we are seeing what the OEMs and wireless providers want us to see and this is evident in the losing of WiFi tethering in the latest build of Android 2.2, or known as Froyo. If a wireless provider doesn't want a feature (like tethering) the OEM's are then pressured into leaving it out to make them happy. This is not a good thing in my opinion as it again puts the power and fate of Android in the wireless providers like Verizon and AT&T where we are quickly losing the openness of Android and the ability to even side load applications. This is exactly why we need a phone like the Nexus One. A phone that will push the boundaries of innovation and keep the wireless companies honest by simple competition. They won't leave an important feature out if the Google phone already has a version of it out and available unlocked. Without Google making a phone we are left with whatever skin the OEMs have minus the features the wireless companies don't want included. If the Nexus One would not of been released we would be stuck with minimal upgrades and even worse what would make the OEMs and providers hurry with the newest release (Froyo in this case and soon to be Gingerbread)? If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then would all the companies like HTC, Samsung, and Motorola even be racing to get Froyo out? In my opinion the Nexus One is the only reason that these companies are trying to get 2.2 out in a timely basis. I mean I may be wrong as I am not a developer, but what would really make the OEMs and providers want to hurry with their releases if they didn't have the competition? I think it would be the opposite and these companies would make us buy their newest and top of the line Android phone just to get the newest and best Android release. This has been proven in the past and if it wasn't for the iPhone and Google's Android the smartphone world would be a very different place filled with Bada OSs, Windows Mobile phones, no app stores, and worse of all mediocre upgrades. This is the real reason we need Google to release a phone so they can take the fate of Android (and the power, in my opinion) away from greedy wireless companies and OEM's that only look to sell us a phone multiple times a year.
I have really given a lot of thought to this because ever since I purchased my Nexus One back in March (without AT&Ts permission, I should add) I had planned on buying a "Google phone" every year. I was aware that Google would work closely with different OEMs and we would get a great dev phone every year with the latest and greatest Vanilla Android, free from the clutches of wireless contracts, and most of all "OPEN." This was a great idea and I can see why Google's idea of selling a phone didn't catch on here in the states, but they accomplished a lot more than selling millions of devices like Apple does. They accomplished (along with the Droid, which I might add Google had a big hand in creating and bringing to life, and also was free of a locked bootloader) bringing Android to the masses and making the statement to companies that a top of the line Android phone needs to have these specs to compete in the Android world.
I just went out and bought me a Samsung Captivate and to be honest the first thing I thought I would get rid of was TouchWiz, but it has kind of grown on me. I think HTC Sense is nice as well, but I will always be a Vanilla Android fan and there is something about the Nexus One that always brings me back. This will be a phone that I will not ever get rid of and is still the best phone I have ever owned. I am sure many others feel the same way and the Nexus One will continue to be a niche kind of product, but I think I have made the argument that Google needs a phone to further Android and keep the fate of it's Android in it's hands. This could get out of control quick and it could turn bad. We are just nearing the top and Android is here to stay and will be the OS that everyone else attempts to mimic. Come on Google I know I am not the only one that feels this way and this is why I started this thread to get the feel of others in the Android community as I am sure there are others that are worried as well. The open Android that we know and love today is in jeopardy if Google doesn't maintain a little control over their Android OS. The OEM's and wireless companies are going to ruin the openness of Android if they don't have a constant pressure keeping them honest. One of the main reasons that Android has grown so rapidly is that a company like Google has created it to be free, open, and common to many phones so we don't have to worry about dozens of companies with mediocre platforms. Weigh in and let me know how you feel and maybe just maybe we can get someones attention. Feel free to copy this on other forums as I feel we need to save the idea of an open Android. One without the boundaries of no side loading of apps, eFuses, locked bootloaders, and most of all innovation and the advancement of the Android platform.
Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.
JCopernicus said:
Google's own line of phones phone has zero influence on the android os.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right, but without a Google phone what will Android be like? We won't see another Vanilla Android phone that is for sure.
Not being able to see into the future makes this a hard statement to take as fact.
There were vanilla phones before nexus one and there will continue to be more
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
If you want a true vanilla android phone grabe one of HTC's china phones, not even google apps are on it. =D
I agree with the basic premise that the Nexus One did provide leverage to potentially (and I think that is a key qualifier) keep the competition honest, but it isn't clear that it would do so without significantly more marketing. And, to market the Nexus One more could have annoyed some of the vendors that Google wants to keep happy - lots of happy vendors means lots of seats for Android means lots of seats off of which Google makes a lot of money. In particular, if every Android phone is locked, then Google still makes a mint, though they stand to make more of a mint if the platform is more widely adopted. And, an open phone does have an impact on platform adoption, but I don't think it is that critical since the public is used to buying fixed feature-set phones and upgrading for new features so this isn't an issue of taking away something that they demand as it is failing to give them something that they would come to know and love (as we already do).
But, I also want to counter some of the supporting arguments you present.
First, the current wave of smartphones was headed here one way or another. Google didn't create the wave, they simply reacted and targeted Android at the capabilities that were coming down the pike. To do that most effectively they needed a new developer phone and the Nexus One was going to be released in January one way or another as the ADP3 until they had this idea to sell direct. It was simply them needing to get out a testbed for the new Android capabilities that were targeted at the new baseline smartphone hardware and they chose to do it in an experimental new way this time. If they hadn't released the Nexus One direct to consumers then you would have seen the same phones come out and you would have seen the same OS releases, you just wouldn't have had a large installed base of end users previewing it on a non-developer handset.
Second, I think the main factor spurring the vendors to get 2.2 out quickly is that it offers so much, not that they have to keep up with the Nexus One. It is, in my opinion, the biggest release so far (and I've been with Android since 1.0) primarily because of the JIT. Also, all the manufacturers came out with what would become the new standard amount of RAM (512MB) and the existing release available for them to ship on did not support it, so they need to get on 2.2 in order to simply unlock the hardware they originally designed. In some sense, these phones were really designed for 2.2 - 2.1 was simply a stepping stone to get them shipped on their hardware schedule until 2.2 was ready on its software schedule. So, there are really 2 factors that would encourage them to get 2.2 out on their 2010-class phones that have nothing to do with the Nexus One being here.
As far as vanilla phones... The G1 was vanilla. The original Droid was vanilla (is it still vanilla with the latest releases?). The Nexus One was vanilla. But, where there any others? I love my vanilla phones (first G1 then N1), but I don't mind value added by the vendors, I just wish they would make it easier to customize things away and that they would learn to design their add-ons so that they can be easily dropped on to a new Android release with little fuss...
Short answer: No. It does not.
Simply put, there will always be a phone that will have Vanilla Android. If for nothing more than using that as a sale point. Especially with Andy 3.0 in the horizon which focus is on the UI. No worries.
Of course it doesn't.
Simple answer, no. There have always been vanilla Android phones, the developer phones at least, and there will always be developer phones. In fact, the Nexus is still for sale now as the latest developer phone.
Eventually there will be another vanilla Android phone that Google is behind, unless they get their own hardware built by someone and don't sell it publicly... but that wouldn't make much sense, just like it wouldn't make any sense for them to not ever have another phone.
Soon enough, the 2ghz and dual-core phones will be out, and eventually mobile devices will catch up to computers in terms of power. They're gonna have to.
I'm sure they will come out with a different dev phone in the future.
I agree with the op, up to a point. While it may be true that there'll always be a phone Google gets behind -a 'dev' phone, if you will- I think it still limits choice for people who want the vanilla experience. Is it really ok to just have one phone that's vanilla?
To the op: "If the Nexus One would not of been released...."
I think you mean "had not been released..."
and: "If Google wouldn't of pushed Android 2.2 to the Nexus One then...."
It's "If Google hadn't pushed Android..."
Sorry for the pedantry. Bad grammar just spoilt a good, well-thought out post.
Consumer are what they are a android is one of the greatest os I have experience.all those problems was soft ware issue and minor only something a child would complain about.i have a nexus almost went with a nokia n900 glad I didn't .proud of google.
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Because I am quite disappointed with Samsung Galaxy S, I will sell it and buy another phone soon.
I am very fond of HTC Desire HD but is it worth to buy another Android phone or is better to give a try to iOS, Symbian ^3 or maybe Windows Mobile 7.
What are your suggestions?
From personal experience, I doubt the iOS beats android in any way. Symbian is too simple and plain for my taste. However, I don't know much about the latest symbian, but the N8 works on a much slower CPU than the SGS. As for windows mobile 7, since it's new, it might be worth a try but we can never really know till reviews start flooding the net... Personally, I think you're being a bit hasty with throwing away the SGS. With froyo just around the corner, it would really improve the phone overall, and would certainly be comparable with the Desire HD. After having done my own research, I concluded and opted for an android phone by choice, for IMHO it IS currently the best upcoming mobile phone OS. Ultimately, you just have to be patient with new technology, so irrespective of the OS or the manufacturer, there's really no point rushing. You will NEVER find 'The Perfect Phone'.... Just my two cents.
Hold out for Meego if Symbian ends up on top of your list, but that'll be 2011. If you want something with everything laid out for you and a good app store, iOS is a fine option, but it definitely depends on what your problem is with SGS and how much of that is Android/Samsung based. iOS has high satisfaction rates, but most people who get in there have stuck along, knew what they were getting into or don't know any better. Android, some people who aren't technical enough or like tinkering and having options just bought in because it's popular and they hear enough about it, but they didn't know what they were getting into. Still, as far as I know, Android has the second highest customer satisfaction, so if you need a decision for the here and now, go with Android or iOS. If you can wait until WP7, read up after the devices launch, it's not ready to compete with all things either platform can offer, but it does have long-term potential, particularly with gaming/MS integrations, but thus far from what I know I wouldn't buy it in the first 12 months of it's launch even if they start with the best hardware.
My advice is wait until Froyo.. The reason why you are disappointed is probably because it feels sometimes like Samsung aren't doing anything. This is because there aren't many leaks.
You may also be disappointed because many people here at XDA are jumping to incredibly uninformed conclusions. We have morons running around saying that Samsung will never release updates, people saying the lag can't be fixed in RFS (whilst Samsung might not have integrated a few performance patches) and newbies saying "the GPS problem is hardware" without ANY proof whatsobloodyever.
Also, whilst those who defend this phone regularly get called fanboy's, there are certainly a lot of HTC fanboys here too (which seems to be finally getting revealed now that many ex-HTC users are calling some of their ex-products worse).
Froyo might be a completely different ballgame (I wouldn't underestimate Samsung). But either way, a lot of people coming from other platforms are saying their SGS is better than their other phones anyway.
I wouldn't touch WM7 because:
1) Windows Mobile seems to be a dying platform. Unfortunately, Microsoft took too long to release it.
2) So this means they wont get many developers and users on-board.
3) Windows Mobile is closed source, and development isn't easy (You probably require Windows).
Why I wouldn't touch the iPhone:
1) For starters, Steve Jobs stood on stage and lied about the antenna. Rather than fix the problem, he called other mobiles rubbish (despite their antenna problems often being VERY difficult to replicate in real life). I have very little respect for that.
2) Development is difficult, you really need OSX. The OS is closed source too.
3) Many users NEED to jailbreak, because of restrictions in the store.
4) Apple products often have weird design issues, which people seem to ignore, but which exists.
5) Huge app store
6) iTunes.. Enough said..
Symbian
1) Symbian is open source, which is great...
2) But these days, only Nokia sells them. Symbian's marketshare will likely only decrease.
WebOS/Palm
1) Forget about WebOS. In most countries you can't find ANY webOS phones, so audience is VERY limited
Meego/Maemo
1) The Nokia N900 is the only phone that uses it.
2) But it probably runs faster than Android because it's compiled code.
3) But limited exposure. I'd consider it, if the hardware wasn't so sucky...
Android.
1) Apps might run slower, because it's bytecode
2) But, HUGE range of mobiles
3) Huge range of apps (Not as much as iPhone though)
4) Open source OS.
5) Evolving quickly, reliable vendor (Google know what they are doing)
6) The SGS seems to be the only laggy Android phone out there (probably due to a few bugs that need fixing in RFS, which might already be fixed in head/trunk).
I'd say hold off until Froyo. I have the feeling Samsung will surprise us. Remember, the leaks only show SOME integrated code, and even JPK could have been missing a whole lot of patches. A lot of claims made by users isn't true either.
The reason why some things haven't been fixed yet may also be because they are integrating the fixes directly into Froyo.
There is a VERY good reason why Android is quickly growing though. In fact, I'd be surprised if Android isn't #1 by next year. But I'd honestly have no problems buying another Android handset
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
by radiation I assume you mean the head tumors
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Rick,
To answer your question - why so much work occurs with Android, I would like to take the liberty of rephrasing the question - why so much work occurs with Android phones? There isnt one correct answer for this.
You are correct in saying that carriers and service providers like to cripple the phone before they hand it over to the consumer. So when you buy the phone you really are not using these wonderful pieces of technology to their fullest extent. Thanks to our developers here at XDA because of whom we can in reality free the phones that we paid much moolah for, so that we maybe able to use all of the fones features that have been designed to work in conjunction with the wonderful Android OS.
Secondly, the reason why so much work goes into the phones and development to improve the functionality of the phone is because that is what Android has been designed for. Consumer can customize the phone to their liking and does not have to get stuck with the proprietary, grid like systems like the ones iphone has. Phone manufacturers, and not just Samsung, obviously design the phones software in such a way so that there is always room for improvement. They bet their dollar on the fact that an average consumer will eventually buy a newer product when its released and marketed in the future. There is always something lacking in the product that is in the market right now and that is where all this work comes into play.
Now, whether you shud buy a samsung captivate or not and what the time requirement is, is totally dependent on what you want to use the phone for and what kind of functionality you would like to get out of it.
From what you said that ur not a person who wud like to spend a lot of time modifying or playing around with your phone, you wud still like the captivate. Samsung Captivate is a very nice phone overall. Its got almost everything that you cud want in a phone. In regards to apps included with the phone, you've got a decent selection along with loads of bloatware.... If there is anything missing you can easily find it on the android market.
If you're expecting that your GPS would work right out of the box, then the answer is, maybe - maybe not. and its not android's fault, its a samsung issue. There are multiple fixes for the GPS that you can find on the forum, that being said, if you plan on utilizing those fixes, like you said not only will you void your warranty but you alone will be venturing into that experiment on your phone and dev will not be responsible for any damage that may or may not happen to your phone. But then again no guts, no glory.
So all in all, if you do end up getting the captivate, i dont think you'll be utterly disappointed, but at the same time i dont think you'll be able to sit back either when you see all these new developments posted here.
Hopefully i helped you a little and if i said too much then i apologize.
I welcome any senior member of the forum to correct me if im wrong and/or make any additions to what ive said above..
happy forumming....
My brother has a Samsung focus. It's buggy as hell, completely counter intuitive, and incomplete. Theres also no apps at all. He has like 3 different crappy youtube apps and sound boards.
And there's no CM7 to one day fix it.
Sent from my Captivate.
anandsamuel,
An excellent response; truly what I was looking for to understand the issues involved regarding Android and SmartPhones. You did not say too much.
I guess I need to start reading so I understand how to root a Captivate!
Rick
Also, that font is irritating to read.
RAVC1 said:
All,
I am new here and to SmartPhones. I like Captivate because it has low radiation.
I am impressed with the activities I see here and on CyanogenMod. However, these give me cause for concern regarding the energy level required to accomplish them. Linux is good but I am returning to graduate school in the fall so I am concerned regarding the requirement of these phones and OS's. I would appreciate it if some of you could explain why so much work occurs with Android. Is much of this activity born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones? I see this as a major factor presently.
With that said, it does appear Samsung blew it with regard to v2.2 and the Galaxy S phones. I am nearly embarrassed to inform you that I own two Samsung LCD monitors after learning of this negative experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ok lets slow you down there. first android is linux BASED not linux. there is no need to worry about OS/ device compatibility. the most interaction between the phone and PC are just file copying like through a usb thumb drive.
the next part regarding carriers/updates/samsung. you answered yourself, kinda, and backwards. Samsung didnt blow it.
Google android updates as much as any software does - to make things better.
they release to manufacturers so they can make it work with their hardware.
Samsung released on time, BUT TO THE CARRIERS.
the carriers then take what samsung gave them and add their carrier specific settings (APN ect) and applications (bloatware).
ATT blew the update timeline.
Sometimes manufacturers release their finished product as "source code" untouched by carriers.
the long process is necessary in each step to (attempt) to make a perfect software package that will work with each phone/carrier out of the box for the end user. so it is unfair to say "born out of the decision of carriers to control OS releases to specific phones"
XDA works off of source codes and carrier releases to make our custom updates.
Clearly, I void the warranty if I embrace the activities here but this just rationalizes the choice of a refurbished phone!
Please attempt to characterize the time requirement for becoming involved with these Samsung Galaxy phones and Android. I know I am not the type of person to be interested in continually working with my phone to make it better. However, I also know my limited perspective can be biasing reality with this OS and these SmartPhones unnecessarily negative.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
there are ways to return your phone without them knowing what you did. dont worry too much about your "voided" warranty.
before i felt comfortable flashing I took about 3 days reading my A$$ off! and currently im off on workers comp. so that was 3 FULL days. even then i had issues and mistakes and my phone was out of service a few nights! but that is part of the fun.
you do not need to be the type of person to constantly update your phone to buy it. tens of thousands of people have this phone on stock firmware and it fully works. the extra effort and time that we here at XDA and cyanogenMOD do is more out of fun, and customization. Many would argue function as well, as we do sometimes fix things *better* than google/samsung/carriers. but things willl *usually* still function on stock even if on a basic level.
you only need to put in as much as you want to get out of it
so timeline,
flashing custom roms/themes PROPERLY - under a week
cutting and pasting roms frankenROMS - under a month or 2
creating - vast back knowlege of programming, ect YEAR(S)
regarding wanting to update often, not every update on XDA to your rom is necessary unles it fixes something you didnt have.
Each Android/Carrier update, would be recomended (or the XDA counterpart) as each new android version (not rom) contains the most updates/fixes. so if you were running a 2.2 (custom or stock) rom it WOULD be worth upgrading to 2.3 when available (custom or stock). but you dont NEED to update your custom rom every couple weeks when they put out their minor update on the same base rom (2.2 for eg.)
Oddly, my wife is considering the Focus because it would give her the MS support she needs with work. Regardless, it does appear we have found a few excellent Internet resources for these choices...I just want to ensure I am not getting in over my head.
Thanks,
Rick
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no comment. best regards
Trusselo,
Excellent, thoughtful response; it helped characterize this activity further for me. My concern is now recognized (and conveyed to others...) as not wanting to be required to become a developer to make my involvement with a SmartPhone constructive. Samsung, Android, XDA looks very good to me. As you mentioned, my reading has begun.
Yes, something is not right with my traditional Comic Sans Serif font here; it seems to compress it horizontally, but my aging eyes typically need this font.
So I know by posting on here that I am having issues with my iPhone experience, I'm going to get hammered with comments and people thinking. Well what did you expect was going to happen.
Since switching from android to iOS, I've started getting involved in macrumors forum.
The forum is littered with hundreds of people commenting on bugs with the new iOS update. It seems to affect people at random. However, my wife was having a lot of issues and problems with her 5 after updating to iOS 8.0. Which was released two days before the iphone 6 came out. I was the first to download it and honestly haven't experienced any bugs with it that a lot of others are having.
But the simple fact that so many people are having problems with the update really pisses me off and really makes me question Apple in general. Or maybe just iOS. I know that Apple makes a really good operating system for their macs but honestly I think iOS doesn't even come close to the quality of OS X for their macs.
But how in the world can Apple release such garbage when it comes to system software updates. I had heard about people in the past updating their older iPhones to the latest versions of iOS and reporting that it slowed their phone down. But this is the first time I've seen it with my own eyes.
Heck one of main reasons I left android is because I wanted a phone that would receive the latest updates. But if they are garbage, then what's the benefit. People will keep saying, oh they'll release an update to fix it. Which is what ends up happening. They released iOS 7.0 last year and then they spent the rest of the year releasing minor updates to fix all the bugs.
So before iOS was released, the latest version was 7.1.2. I feel like I'm back on android installing custom roms that are in beta.
And as I was watching my wife restore her phone back to the previous version 7.1.2, I saw all of the headache and frustration it caused her. I saw her stress level go up because it was so difficult to do. Even then, she had to reset her phone twice. Then as she was fixing all of her notifications, she was getting frustrated with how difficult it was finding all of her notification settings. It's like you have to do a lot of digging through the settings to find how to adjust them and I was remembering how simple it is to change settings on an android.
I know I'm rambling and will probably get this thread closed down. Maybe not. But I had to shared frustrations somewhere.
I know it will be difficult for me to convince my wife that I would like to switch back just over this because my current phone is the fourth phone in two years. I sold two android phones because I was addicted to rooting and flashing roms. So I bought my 5s through Verizon's edge program and am paying an extra $37 a month for my 32gb version. It was by far one of the most expensive phones to get on edge. So I was able to talk her into my getting the 32gb 5s.
At this point I could find someone on Craigslist who is willing to swap phones with me but I'm only willing to accept an M8 or G3. I've seen both of those on there but again I'm not sure I could talk her into letting me back on android. I feel like of the two phones, the M8 is something if be more happy with. It will probably receive more updates than the G3 but the G3 has the better camera.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Juice3250 said:
So I know by posting on here that I am having issues with my iPhone experience, I'm going to get hammered with comments and people thinking. Well what did you expect was going to happen.
Since switching from android to iOS, I've started getting involved in macrumors forum.
The forum is littered with hundreds of people commenting on bugs with the new iOS update. It seems to affect people at random. However, my wife was having a lot of issues and problems with her 5 after updating to iOS 8.0. Which was released two days before the iphone 6 came out. I was the first to download it and honestly haven't experienced any bugs with it that a lot of others are having.
But the simple fact that so many people are having problems with the update really pisses me off and really makes me question Apple in general. Or maybe just iOS. I know that Apple makes a really good operating system for their macs but honestly I think iOS doesn't even come close to the quality of OS X for their macs.
But how in the world can Apple release such garbage when it comes to system software updates. I had heard about people in the past updating their older iPhones to the latest versions of iOS and reporting that it slowed their phone down. But this is the first time I've seen it with my own eyes.
Heck one of main reasons I left android is because I wanted a phone that would receive the latest updates. But if they are garbage, then what's the benefit. People will keep saying, oh they'll release an update to fix it. Which is what ends up happening. They released iOS 7.0 last year and then they spent the rest of the year releasing minor updates to fix all the bugs.
So before iOS was released, the latest version was 7.1.2. I feel like I'm back on android installing custom roms that are in beta.
And as I was watching my wife restore her phone back to the previous version 7.1.2, I saw all of the headache and frustration it caused her. I saw her stress level go up because it was so difficult to do. Even then, she had to reset her phone twice. Then as she was fixing all of her notifications, she was getting frustrated with how difficult it was finding all of her notification settings. It's like you have to do a lot of digging through the settings to find how to adjust them and I was remembering how simple it is to change settings on an android.
I know I'm rambling and will probably get this thread closed down. Maybe not. But I had to shared frustrations somewhere.
I know it will be difficult for me to convince my wife that I would like to switch back just over this because my current phone is the fourth phone in two years. I sold two android phones because I was addicted to rooting and flashing roms. So I bought my 5s through Verizon's edge program and am paying an extra $37 a month for my 32gb version. It was by far one of the most expensive phones to get on edge. So I was able to talk her into my getting the 32gb 5s.
At this point I could find someone on Craigslist who is willing to swap phones with me but I'm only willing to accept an M8 or G3. I've seen both of those on there but again I'm not sure I could talk her into letting me back on android. I feel like of the two phones, the M8 is something if be more happy with. It will probably receive more updates than the G3 but the G3 has the better camera.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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ask the millions of people who had their phones broken with the 8.0.1 update
oh ... and bad move going from android to iPhone
iOS?
Here is androiders! Brick the phone and repair it! Brick it.. Repair it! Brick! Repair!
TapaTalked from my MultiROM Xperia™ Z (C660²) running Dirty Unicorns OR PAC MAN ROM!
BruKnowsBest said:
ask the millions of people who had their phones broken with the 8.0.1 update
oh ... and bad move going from android to iPhone
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I’ve always had Android phones and only one iPhone but I like the fact that Apple sends OTA updates at the same time for everyone. I hate how Google and the Manufacturers/Carriers perform a gradual OTA updates that take weeks or sometimes even months... although as you said Apple does prompt updates but full of bugs
This post is not demand a build for our phone, this post is not to get anybody upset it is just a question that I've had for many years.
I've owned every single Nexus device up until the Nexus 6P, and have owned every single pixel device... I remember that with each Nexus phone the support scene was so robust that you look forward to a new phone to come out and see development on it...
For some reason pixel phones are one of the only phones that don't get love from any custom ROM development out there.. you see that lineage OS does not support our phone and has not supported our phone since the Pixel 1 officially. Paranoid Android has not supported our phone at all since the Pixel 1 , And the last official update from them was in 2017.. why is it that our phone being one of the latest phones does not get love?
The main thing that I've heard is that our phone is too expensive to build for, but I have seen the OnePlus 7 pro have vast support in the community and it is almost up there as far as pricing goes as the pixel.
I have always been one to contribute to donations or to work that's worth donating to, dirty unicorns has been a great ROM, but if you think about it our selection of ROMs can be counted with one hand .
Make Google phones great again!
I also believe the pixels don't attract the custom rom enthusiasts like us they are made & sold & marketed to people to be a iPhone competitor also I feel a lot of developers are getting older & many devs just support a few phones that's it & there are not as many devs on the scene like there were years ago unfortunately I remember have my OG Droid from Verizon the support was crazy unfortunately I feel we have to look at it this way its a end of a era for google phones sad to say
Those custom roms are made to make our experience feel like Pixel. They take here and there from pixel feature. Since we are using pixel software, so what the point of having the custom rom? Kernel is more important. Thanks god we have artemis and kiri. Soon we will have Proton or maybe Sultan.
Btw we dont have TWRP support while there is for OP7Pro. Install a custom rom or make one is pain in the ass.
Because they consistently don't live up to expectations. Everybody keeps waiting for them to live up to hype and at least attempt to challenge others with hardware or respond to feedback and they continue to ignore that feedback. it's still in all right device, I like it it's overpriced as hell and I'm glad I waited a few months to get it, still tempted by the OnePlus 8 pro after leaving my 7 pro for this.
kickenwing13 said:
Because they consistently don't live up to expectations. Everybody keeps waiting for them to live up to hype and at least attempt to challenge others with hardware or respond to feedback and they continue to ignore that feedback. it's still in all right device, I like it it's overpriced as hell and I'm glad I waited a few months to get it, still tempted by the OnePlus 8 pro after leaving my 7 pro for this.
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Better off going back to the 7 pro.It jus got Dual boot twrp. I'm running Oos and lineage as of this writing tomorrow might be different :laugh: . I got a 3xl and it lost twrp after Android 9 you can fastboot boot it with half the functions not working the 7t the same way an id imagine 8 pro be the same. Only way to have fun with Magisk on the 3xl Android 10 is to be running a user-debug build. Without the debug build magisk will let you overlay the system an look at your data but that's bout it. The way things look nowadays looking alot more locked down then they used to wait til Android 11 hits even more so is the case. Now Google going to build their own chipset like Samsung with help from Samsung Which will bring us one more step closer to Google Fuschia instead of Android
ROMs in general have gone down hill.
The need for them isn't really there. Early on, Android phones had tons of issues, shortcoming and limitations... ROMs were a way around that, to get the phones to work the way we wanted and the way they should have come out of the box.
Now? Most phones are really good, and there's not much to improve. ROM's don't really have much to offer any more, other than to a shrinking pool of users who want to tweak their phones more than they actually USE their phones...
Adding upon all comments above one of the reason is people are stuck with IOS. They don't know the actual power of Android. Who ever tries the Android are forced to go back to ios again because lack of facetime and other apps that are only available only ios
alwynjoshy said:
Adding upon all comments above one of the reason is people are stuck with IOS. They don't know the actual power of Android. Who ever tries the Android are forced to go back to ios again because lack of facetime and other apps that are only available only ios
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Realistically, what's the power of android these days? Yes, you can tweak icons and the status bar and stuff, which 99.99% of phone owners don't care about...
The differences between the platforms isn't as great as it once was... I am on an iPhone 11 Pro at the moment and its a great phone... I want to come back to Android at some point but the watch situation on Android is a joke. And for the Pixels... they just never live up to the hype. I love Samsung, but updates still suck. There is OnePlus but some of the features like Wifi calling don't work on ATT half the time...
I prefer Android overall, but if you want the complete package with a good watch, Apple has the better package.
I had high hopes for Essential but we saw where that went...
I wish that Google would put out a pixel without giant bezels, that didn't have a last generation processor, etc... They will put out a phone in November that's using the same specs as phones that came out last month...
SquireSCA said:
Realistically, what's the power of android these days? Yes, you can tweak icons and the status bar and stuff, which 99.99% of phone owners don't care about...
The differences between the platforms isn't as great as it once was... I am on an iPhone 11 Pro at the moment and its a great phone... I want to come back to Android at some point but the watch situation on Android is a joke. And for the Pixels... they just never live up to the hype. I love Samsung, but updates still suck. There is OnePlus but some of the features like Wifi calling don't work on ATT half the time...
I prefer Android overall, but if you want the complete package with a good watch, Apple has the better package.
I had high hopes for Essential but we saw where that went...
I wish that Google would put out a pixel without giant bezels, that didn't have a last generation processor, etc... They will put out a phone in November that's using the same specs as phones that came out last month...
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There are few functions which apple cant replace using of Clone applications, Root functions apps, custom fonts and many
alwynjoshy said:
There are few functions which apple cant replace using of Clone applications, Root functions apps, custom fonts and many
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Realistically, today, what does the average person need root access on their phone for? I haven't rooted or ROM'd in several years... The tinkerer in me wants to, but I never find any compelling reason to...
I just don't care enough about what font my Instagram icon uses...
SquireSCA said:
Realistically, today, what does the average person need root access on their phone for? I haven't rooted or ROM'd in several years... The tinkerer in me wants to, but I never find any compelling reason to...
I just don't care enough about what font my Instagram icon uses...
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my root need are viperfx, swift theme installer, fingerface , Sd maid ( save 2GB in every week when cleanup), etc
I have a Galaxy Note 10+. One of the heavy flagship phones from last year. There's about 3 ROMS and the communication in the threads is just about non-existent.
It's kinda sad because I remember my Note 4 having a ****load of AOSP ROM options and this phone has 1 that hasn't been updated in months. I would love to root/flash a ROM on my phone but I think the main thing is a lack of developers. Most have probably moved on and don't see a point in developing custom ROMs when most phones nowadays are capable of doing almost anything. The main reason I rooted/flashed ROMs was for the ability to customize my phone to my liking.
PieceofSlice said:
I have a Galaxy Note 10+. One of the heavy flagship phones from last year. There's about 3 ROMS and the communication in the threads is just about non-existent.
It's kinda sad because I remember my Note 4 having a ****load of AOSP ROM options and this phone has 1 that hasn't been updated in months. I would love to root/flash a ROM on my phone but I think the main thing is a lack of developers. Most have probably moved on and don't see a point in developing custom ROMs when most phones nowadays are capable of doing almost anything. The main reason I rooted/flashed ROMs was for the ability to customize my phone to my liking.
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Exactly, and today, so many stock phones allow most of the customization that ROMs used to have to provide... And if not, install a different launcher and there are your themes...
i42o said:
This post is not demand a build for our phone, this post is not to get anybody upset it is just a question that I've had for many years.
I've owned every single Nexus device up until the Nexus 6P, and have owned every single pixel device... I remember that with each Nexus phone the support scene was so robust that you look forward to a new phone to come out and see development on it...
For some reason pixel phones are one of the only phones that don't get love from any custom ROM development out there.. you see that lineage OS does not support our phone and has not supported our phone since the Pixel 1 officially. Paranoid Android has not supported our phone at all since the Pixel 1 , And the last official update from them was in 2017.. why is it that our phone being one of the latest phones does not get love?
The main thing that I've heard is that our phone is too expensive to build for, but I have seen the OnePlus 7 pro have vast support in the community and it is almost up there as far as pricing goes as the pixel.
I have always been one to contribute to donations or to work that's worth donating to, dirty unicorns has been a great ROM, but if you think about it our selection of ROMs can be counted with one hand .
Make Google phones great again!
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IMO Pixels don’t have the fan base of the type of enthusiast that install custom ROMs and such. Higher spec phones like OnePlus and stuff like they are more heavily modded i feel like because those types of people are attracted to the specs. Pixels don’t have specs that are anything to write home about. Where as a OnePlus with 12GB of RAM is pretty impressive.
TechOut said:
IMO Pixels don’t have the fan base of the type of enthusiast that install custom ROMs and such. Higher spec phones like OnePlus and stuff like they are more heavily modded i feel like because those types of people are attracted to the specs. Pixels don’t have specs that are anything to write home about. Where as a OnePlus with 12GB of RAM is pretty impressive.
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That's probably it right there. The latest and greatest Pixel, uses specs that are already obsolete... Every year, they bring half year old specs and release their new phones with comparable specs to everyone else's specs that are already on the way out.
My thoughts below are mine, and mine only..
The reason you don't see as many custom roms here on xda imho is because it's no longer a hub that's a viable place for most roms to gain any value. the passion for development hasn't died. There are many great new features, and things users would love. Sure, the pixels are great out of the box, but you can say that for any flagship that has come out recently.
Don't get me wrong, xda is great, I'm just saying you shouldn't think devs and users have lost interest because their content isn't on xda.
I mean you're right,. It's different than the days of installing a ROM on a Droid x or something and actually seeing a notable difference between Moto blur and not. Or my note two with some of the different runs I could get on it. I don't know, I think I would like the freedom to make different apps different notifications so that I could customize notifications by app or by person a little easier for text messages. Little things like that that I feel like I used to get in some of those older arms but maybe not maybe I'm just misremembering or something.
Surge1223 said:
My thoughts below are mine, and mine only..
The reason you don't see as many custom roms here on xda imho is because it's no longer a hub that's a viable place for most roms to gain any value. the passion for development hasn't died. There are many great new features, and things users would love. Sure, the pixels are great out of the box, but you can say that for any flagship that has come out recently.
Don't get me wrong, xda is great, I'm just saying you shouldn't think devs and users have lost interest because their content isn't on xda.
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Where should one go to get ROM's for this device?
jmartin72 said:
Where should one go to get ROM's for this device?
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After hours of research I think I have found some in the ROM section of this forum
Mackay53 said:
After hours of research I think I have found some in the ROM section of this forum
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Why not try reading before you post, and make yourself look foolish.