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I believe Kaiser rely on the Qualcomm chip for GPS. How is the performance. People say good thing about the SIRF III chip. How is the Kaiser GPS compare to the SIRF III? Anyone know?
welll in most cases built in gps arnt as reliable as the actuall thing... they are off sometimes
I guess it may depend on what you want/need to do with GPS.
If I turn it on and run Google Maps, it shows me right in the middle of my house, and that's where I am. If I move from one end of my house to another, I again appear in the right place.
To use GPS do we require to have gprs or 3g data activated.
Or is like integrated FM Radion which doesnt require data connection.
No -- there is a GPS receiver built into the unit that sends NMEA 0183 data over a serial port. You'll probably need map software; any software that works with WM6 and a Bluetooth GPS should do the job (e.g. TomTom 6).
I use Googlemaps and TOMTOM 6 with no problem.
I need to mention that I am a current HTC Trinity owner, and if IF if IF if IF the Kaiser has the same A-GPS chip found in the trinity, then this is what we should expect (from my experience with the Trinity)
1- Initial fix time can take long (sometimes it takes 2 minutes, sometimes 5 minutes, sometimes 10 minutes, and sometimes IT NEVER gets a fix and no GPS singal can be found)
2- Once the GPS get a fix, then it works perfectly and flawlessly.
So I only hope that the Kaiser will solve the initial fix problem.
Has it now "normal" GPS or the mobile Version AGPS
I guess you could upgrade your radio to 1.40+ and try again. They said there's a big improvement to GPS fix.
Talking about TTFF, if you are moving, or inside a building, I think it will take longer than usual to get a fix. I live in a really urban area, but once I stand still in an open area, I usually got fix in 2-3 minutes, without exception.
Someone did a test in the Trinity forum - the accuracy of the qualcomm chip is even better than that of the sirf-iii.
However, a major problem though is the lack of a software assisted gps problem that can improve the ttff time. (Though qualcomm said there's one, but until now it's still vapourware.)
ww2250 said:
I guess you could upgrade your radio to 1.40+ and try again. They said there's a big improvement to GPS fix.
Talking about TTFF, if you are moving, or inside a building, I think it will take longer than usual to get a fix. I live in a really urban area, but once I stand still in an open area, I usually got fix in 2-3 minutes, without exception.
Someone did a test in the Trinity forum - the accuracy of the qualcomm chip is even better than that of the sirf-iii.
However, a major problem though is the lack of a software assisted gps problem that can improve the ttff time. (Though qualcomm said there's one, but until now it's still vapourware.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also have the Trinity and can back up the above comments. I have a Sirf III device as well and apart from the Time To First Fix being quicker there is no noticeable difference between the two - both very accurate and don't lose their fixes.
TheEngineer0815 said:
Has it now "normal" GPS or the mobile Version AGPS
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Click to collapse
You might find this interesting: http://mobilitysite.com/2007/08/assisted-gps/
Gordon
GordonTGopher said:
You might find this interesting: http://mobilitysite.com/2007/08/assisted-gps/
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Click to collapse
Really interesting. The author of this article think that the Kaiser will have a Sirf-III. Now I think for the first time, we got a device with 2 GPS, a dedicated Sirf-III GPS chip together with a Qualcom integrated GPS.
I would imagine it will greatly increase the accuracy as well as the TTFF
Oh, wait, HTC might disable the Qualcom GPS, and just use the Sirf-III. See what they did to Hermes
Does anyone know how to start the gPS on the Kaiser - I bought one ...but don`t know how to start !
My HTC Diamond is supposed to have eGPS which should facilitate quick acquisition of position. I also read that with eGPS one should get a fix indoors.
However, I'm finding that my regular Garmin navigator (an eTrex Vista HCx) gives me faster acquisition times. And works better in the home.
So is eGPS an over-hyped gimmick? Or do I have to do something to get it to work? Or must the local cellular network be upgraded to support it?
Please help.
Google maps uses it by default on my device.
The Diamond has AGPS not EGPS
Diamand has AGPS not EGPS
Alfredos said:
The Diamond has AGPS not eGPS
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Click to collapse
Thanks. So the Diamond has AGPS which seems to be overhyped
Maybe my next phone will have eGPS ...
aGPS
what program are you using to get a gps fix? google maps gives me a fix pretty quick but tomtom takes longer... i think it i have google maps open in the background and then open tomtom i get faster/better reception...
JanDaMan said:
google maps gives me a fix pretty quick but tomtom takes longer...
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Are you sure Google Maps isn't getting its fix quicker by virtue of it using triangulation of Tx towers, and not GPS from the outset?
Mathew
A GPS from what I understand means it downloads a "database" of some sort from the web and saves it to the phone, said "database" is a kind of location guide of where the GPS satellites are, thus enabling it to get a faster fix.
By default I think it updates itself every 7 days, don't know if you can change that never bothered to look, but i update mine manually probably sooner than that - maybe every 2 days or so.
Program on the phone is "Quick GPS" incase you hadn't run it yet.
Google maps is ridiculously slow in my opinion at getting a fix especially when i compare it to TomTom 7 which I'm running on the phone and it can get me a fix from cold boot to 8 Satellites or more in under 10 seconds, every time without fail.
Windows Live Search however is still slower than TomTom 7 but is quicker at getting a fix than Google maps in my experience, problem with Google Maps and Live Search I believe is although it may seem slow at getting your location it might not be, reason being is because it has to download the piece of map it needs for where you are, the time delay I believe is in it downloading the map and processing it to screen - not actually getting your position, I think it has your position quickly enough but it can't display it because it doesn't have that part of the map yet.... catch my drift.
- maybe I'm wrong on this one but thats my opinion.
Someone on here will probably disagree with most of the above, but there you go.... It probably explains this in the Phones Manual but I'm a typical arrogant male and refuse to read manuals...unless it's a Haynes Manual for my car which I read every night before I go to bed.
Happy Days!
.G.
#6: errr... that is eGPS!
The Diamond has AGPS not EGPS
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Sorry mate, correct me if I'm wrong, Google maps tells me my position (it's not very very accourate indeed) without using gps data (for use gps data it asks me to check a specific option). Isn't EGPS the technology that gives u the posistion using GSM antennas ?
smogdragon said:
Sorry mate, correct me if I'm wrong, Google maps tells me my position (it's not very very accourate indeed) without using gps data (for use gps data it asks me to check a specific option). Isn't EGPS the technology that gives u the posistion using GSM antennas ?
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Click to collapse
First Google maps is very fast to find position cause it uses GSM antennas. EGPS permit to use both GSM antennas + classic GPS. Diamond was to be eGPS but finally not. It is just A-GPS. But as mentionned before, if you want to get a fast fix with TOMTOM or iGO use Quick GPS before (take less than 10 second to download gps datas) then launch your gps soft it will fix in less than 15 seconds.
mike_sendrove said:
#6: errr... that is eGPS!
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Click to collapse
No, the Diamond does not support eGPS.
Google Maps uses its own system which, for all intents and purposes, works in a very similar way - namely triangulation of transmitters cross-correlated with its own database of surveyed transmitter sites.
It is worth noting that eGPS is a trademarked term (owned by CSR) covering a very specific hardware implementation of transmitter triangulation - it is not the first nor only system to do this.
Mathew
MJNewton said:
Are you sure Google Maps isn't getting its fix quicker by virtue of it using triangulation of Tx towers, and not GPS from the outset?
Mathew
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no no i'm talking about the actual GPS fix is fast, not the approximate signal tower thing (which is instant)
When the Diamond and Touch Pro were initially unveiled they touted eGPS, why is it not included? If anyone doesn't believe me just look it up on google.
Hello Diamonds
I have a ques. regarding the GPS of the Diamond, it it offline or online GPS, means does it work if you dont have adata connection?
another ques. which GPS software is delivered with the Diamond?
cheeers
It is a real active GPS chip. You do not need a data connection to make it work. However I heard there and there on the forum that if you disable Phone the GPS won't fix. To confirm...
But to answer you, no, there is no need for a GPRS/EDGE/UMTS connection.
The Diamond is not delivered by any kind of navigation software. It has Google Maps, but you cannot use it while driving because it doesn't give you real time navigational instructions. However, you can buy Tomtom or NavNGo iGO8
Now please no groaning when you see this topic. I know the GPS has been hammered to death on these forums; this post is my vein attempt to see if one particular area of interest of mine has at all moved forward.
(let's also side-step the whole "does your GPS lag?" issue here too!)
(..and, for clarify, I'm referring to AGPS as in the use of the mobile phone network to 'assist' positioning by use of triangulation in areas of poor/no GPS reception, and NOT the use of QuickGPS to download current sat. info in an attempt to get a quicker initial fix)
I used to use TomTom Navigator v7.450; it worked (of a fashion! ) although one specific thing that never worked was that whenever AGPS was enabled (using AdvancedConfig or similar) TomTom would get a signal and then immediately drop it again.. on/off on/off etc.. the fix being to disable AGPS.
I must admit I'm suspicious about HTC having their stock ROMs with AGPS disabled by default - especially as this was initially a 'selling point' of the device and part of the sales blurb ("not only does it have GPS but really good GPS using AGPS".. oh the irony!) - have they themselves ever got it to work?!?!
Now TomTom Navigator v7.910 is out (have just installed it myself, currently waiting for an updated map to download). I have seen it muted that this now works with AGPS on the Diamond or maybe the Pro (ie. someone reports the above bug, yet claims it now works having moved to v7.910). Can anyone else confirm this? More importantly, can anyone confirm AGPS has given the Diamond any GPS-related benefit what-so-ever?? (ie. great if it doesn't stop TomTom working anymore, but does it actually improve it like it should?).
I'll of course try it out myself later today or over the weekend and report back.
Hope this makes sense.. cheers.
just tried TomTom 7.910 (9185) with AGPS enabled, and cant say i noticed much difference.
seems the same now with it enable or dissabled. Cant be sure tho, havent done a long journey yet.
Will update later/tomorrow.
mugglesquop said:
just tried TomTom 7.910 (9185) with AGPS enabled, and cant say i noticed much difference.
seems the same now with it enable or disabled. Cant be sure tho, haven't done a long journey yet.
Will update later/tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for taking the time etc.
Interesting, because..
I've just taken a wonder outside and found I'm still getting the signal constantly being lost bug (looking at the screen that shows the sat. bars I have a good signal for a few seconds, then this goes and 'No GPS device' is displayed, then good signal back again and so on).
On this Diamond I'm using ROM 1.93.401.2 the the supplied radio (1.0.25.05), as I suspected this 'improvement' (potentially) noticed by you/others is more likely a result of a ROM/radio update and not a TomTom software update (guessing this AGPS bug isn't the first thing you try after flashing is it?).
Hmm..
nb. I'm using the exact same version/build of TomTom as you
hmmm... yeh, i'm going on a 60+ mile journey later, so will have a play.
Using Dutty's 3.4 ROM and Radio is BS14...
I thought that the whole point of AGPS is so you could help you get a GPS fix when indoors. Which I always thought was an unusual selling point when the entire purpose of GPS software is to help you find your way in the outdoors. Perhaps it could be more useful for those new tagging services that are popping up.
Anyhow I've been running a fairly recent version of iGo8 using Dutty's Rom 3.3 and 3.4 (both with that new radio).
With AGPS turned off, GPS signal is quickly attained and holds strong outdoors. Nothing indoors, naturally.
With AGPS turned on (via Duttys "AGPS Settings" utility), GPS signal is as quickly attained and flickers fully on then fully off, repeating constantly. When indoors, nothing at all.
So, with iGo8, AGPS seems to be a non-runner.
By the way, I once read that AGPS has to be configured to your particular mobile provider. Perhaps that's the issue?
Same here, with a-gps enabled signal drops constantly
after my journey yesterday, had the same problems as above.
tried with TomTom 7 and iGo8
I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.
ben cole said:
I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, I think this is thanks to googles effort, not AGPS... Google uses Google Gears API which can position you by using basestations and SSIDs.
AGPS is correcting/updating the GPS data with actual almanac data sent from you mobile provider...
Pitchb3nd said:
Same here, with a-gps enabled signal drops constantly
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same for me, anyone being able to use TomTom and AGPS without losing signal periodically?
ben cole said:
I've never had any problems with GPS apart from slow getting a moving fix when the unit is physically very hot.
The main benefit of AGPS for me is that you can get your location on Google Maps within 1500m or so without enabling GPS.
It also proves A-GPS works.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah Google Maps does this on its own without having AGPS enabled on the Diamond. I believe AGPS is supposed to be more accurate than 1000m - 1500m though.
Oh and I believe the way that Google Maps gets its position depends on your mobile provider. I used to get the message "your location is not available" constantly on my network but one day (simultaneously as the iPhone was released in my country), the location was available. So I believe that the network flicked a switch for this technology to work.
AGps and TomTom
Hi,
agps have need to run to:
1) Carrier to inform MobilePhone here is (Is a Base Station Issue)
2) Public information about position
On mobilephone if is enable i think is need to have different information, and tomtom have old pattern to process agps information.
With googlemaps have new process and can use.
With my diamond agps run (googlemaps)
Cityhunter71
Please, don't mix the Google technology and A-GPS. They have nothing in common.
Google maintains their own privately held database of GSM-cellids which GMM can query to determine your position based on the current cellid.
A-GPS is a technology where the GSM-basestation itself receives GPS-satellitedata and relays it to the device. With this additional data, the GPS-receiver in the device is supposed to achieve a faster fix.
Have fun!
a-gps works with 7.450
i remember once that it was taking forever for the satelites to be found yet is was updating my postion on the map constantly via a-gps (which im sure was enabled by default in stock rom as ive never changed it)
a-gps is useful inside because you usually have your phone with you and to find a route, you need gps
Apologies for my erroneous post.
I realised my error today when I installed Google Maps on an ageing Blackberry I had unlocked to play with.
Started it up and lo and behold there was my location....thought I'd better head back here to suffer my shame ...LOL
Thanks for the input guys.
So - in summary:
Even with later ROMS / radios / software applications, there is still yet to be seen any benefit from the Diamond (theoretically) having an A-GPS capability.
RUBBISH!!
I personally subscribe to the theory that there is a missing link between the A-GPS driver type software and an info feed from the likes of the network operator, ie. it's all very well it picking up info on the network but without a back-end database to translate this it's useless.
As far as purpose goes.. I personally think A-GPS sounds on paper to be a great idea. Not a replacement for GPS, nor to be used exclusively indoors, but a good aid/starting point. For example, if I'm sitting in an unfamiliar office in London and wanted to use TomTom to navigate me a route to where I want to get to, A-GPS could provide TomTom with a rough starting point. Similarly, I often find myself launch a nav program (when I'm lost!) and standing there for up to 5 mins waiting for a fix.. at least this would give me an approximation from which I could probably work out myself where I was from looking around me. In my mind when you first fire up TomTom on the Diamond A-GPS should simply put you in the right postcode and start doing its stuff while the GPS seeks out its signal, and not still show me as being either at Home or its last known destination. But in any event - it seems not to work!! Bugger!!
I thought that aGPS was also to help hold a GPS signal when in tunnels, canyons, heavy forest cover (ie.Redwoods in this area, many tower to well over 300 feet!) or any situation where the signal from the satellites may be impaired, or even blocked completely.
Im running Duttys 3.5 and with AGPS on I will get a signal for 10 seconds, then it goes for a second, then back for 10. then gone. Turned AGPS off and all is well.
I can confirm that AGPS does work, some parts here in Finland it works and someplaces it does that on off thingy. once when I was just playing with my tomtom it got signal where it would never get it without it. but mostly here it doesnt work properly so i disable it.
But in Helsinki (larger city) it works properly and helps getting signal fast beneath tall buildings.
But yeah it doesnt work in my hometown so its kinda rubbish here.
Maybe it has something to do with how new are nearby cell towers or something. dunno
In Trondheim, Norway it worked with Telenor and gave me a signal indoors, but when I use it together with TomTom the signal gets lost periodicly, really really annoying since "everything" is already there. Probably just something with the co-operation with the regular GPS or something?
I think i got it to run.
I use tt7.910 on diamond with htc 1.93 dutch rom
My mobile provider is mobistar.
I can get a lock inside, tough it's slow(ie not as fast as outside).
When I fire up tt7 the almanac data is showing in the satelite screen.
reg settings are:
Code:
GPRSConnection: Orange World
GpsMode: 4
Network: Orange World
ServerIP: 194.51.71.138
ServerPort: 7275
ServerUrl: agps.orange.fr
anyone know of a program that only uses the AGPS on the kaiser? ( like how the GPS on the iPhone works or how google maps gets you location) it would be nice to have the option to use the AGPS on its own to save some battery life and have a faster fix since the fix times suck on WM6.1
Thanks guys and gals
might want to try the program KaiserTweak, i thought it has the option to activate A-GPS only.. but im not sure...
i dont know if it would work with TomTom or any other prog that normally uses GPS though..
what iphone 2g use is not agps
agps is an extention of normal gps
it's not the term used for pinpointing ones
location by requesting the gsm network
What you're referring to in google maps is Cell ID positioning, and that's what the 2G iphone uses.
As said, the AGPS as we have it on the Kaiser only refers to the ability to download satellite position data from the web via QuickGPS and thus enabling faster times to first fix, and having a "guesstimating" algorithm that will try to continue giving you a position when sat coverage is too low to get a real one.
The GPS on the 3G iphone also is a "real" GPS receiver that draws power, however while the Kaiser can get satellite path info from the sats if the online data is not available or outdated, only slower, the one in the iphone can ONLY get it online, thus rendering the GPS useless if there's no network coverage. Dead stupid IMO.
got it, thanks for the explination
kilrah said:
The GPS on the 3G iphone also is a "real" GPS receiver that draws power, however while the Kaiser can get satellite path info from the sats if the online data is not available or outdated, only slower, the one in the iphone can ONLY get it online, thus rendering the GPS useless if there's no network coverage. Dead stupid IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dead wrong, sir. Read here:
http://arstechnica.com/journals/app...-the-iphones-gps-without-a-network-connection
http://www.autonavigationgps.com/using-the-iphones-gps-without-a-network-connection/
Do some research before you make statements with big capital letters that make it seem like you know what you're talking about.
I have both phones, I know that the iPhone 3G's GPS unit will work without a data connection, it just takes five minutes or so. Kind of like the GPS on my Tilt if I don't use Quick GPS first.
dzelaya18 said:
Do some research before you make statements with big capital letters that make it seem like you know what you're talking about.
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Well, Sorry for that. I however DID research, and the source I got that info from stated it clearly enough here:
A typical A-GPS-enabled cell phone will use a data connection (internet, or other) to contact the assistance server. Alternatively, it may use standard non-assisted GPS, which is slower and less accurate, but does not lead to network charges for data traffic, which can be considerable.[3] Some A-GPS solutions do not have the option of falling back to conventional GPS (as with the new iPhone 3G).
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Seems I just fell into my first "Wikipedia is wrong" occurrence
No problem mate. With no data connection, it's about as slow as using my Tilt with Quick GPS. Which is to say, super slow. And just like my Tilt with Live Search or Google Maps, even getting the fix doesn't do much good unless you've got the maps cached into memory.
EDIT: I meant to say, "...about as slow as using my Tilt without Quick GPS."