Anybody out there have Bell's version of the Droid 3 rooted? I'm itching to pull the trigger and get one but I haven't read on here about anyone else rooting it yet. I'm sure the same method for Verizon's will work and if not, a method will be available shortly but just thought I'd check and see.
Sent from my Milestone using XDA Premium App
I read it does work on the XT860
Method works. But make sure you use root carefully! There are no safety nets yet - read that as no SBF. I guess it will take even longer for a XT860 SBF to leak (compared to D3).
Also - rooting may prevent your phone from accepting updates (especially if you change something in /system - you will certainly not be able to receive updates. Considering the fact there are already few known bugs (surprisingly same as in D3) - I suspect Motorola will release fix sooner or later (once they patch the root exploit I guess..).
leobg said:
Method works. But make sure you use root carefully! There are no safety nets yet - read that as no SBF. I guess it will take even longer for a XT860 SBF to leak (compared to D3).
Also - rooting may prevent your phone from accepting updates (especially if you change something in /system - you will certainly not be able to receive updates. Considering the fact there are already few known bugs (surprisingly same as in D3) - I suspect Motorola will release fix sooner or later (once they patch the root exploit I guess..).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just to be sure..the one click should work too then..right?
Right (message too short)
I had already opened a thread on this last week and confirmed that the one click process works.
Please see : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1234689
I'm hoping to get some eyes on this plan I've made for hacking my new Droid so I can avoid bricking it at all costs.
I bricked my old Bionic 2 days ago due a combination of problems with Clockword Recovery Mod and the leaked ICS update, as well as my battery frying for some reason. Thankfully Verizon was none the wiser and they are sending me a new phone and battery in a few days. Although I'm cautious about hacking now, I still plan on rooting the new phone so I can recover my apps and data from the old phone's SD card.
Here are my plans for the new phone. If anyone could tell me if it makes sense or if they see any issues that will arise from following these steps, please let me know:
1. Root new Bionic with Motofail.exe root
2. Restore apps and such with Titanium Backup (restoring individual apps so I don't get any old clockwork garbage or other random stuff)
3. Download Voodoo Root OTA Rootkeeper.
4. Wait for official ICS OTA (don't want to mess around with the leaks anymore) and backup root with voodoo
5. Unroot with voodoo, install ICS and re-root after update (I've read on some posts that Voodoo works with the ICS OTA but I'm not 100% sure)
I'm more concerned with the OTA installing properly than keeping the root after ICS, though while it would be simpler just to not root, I really want to restore the TiBu backup from my old phone.
If anyone sees any flaws with this plan or if you think it sounds like there won't be any problems, please respond! I really don't want to brick a second phone so any help would be invaluable.
No one can say for sure if this will work since no one has the official OTA yet.
That sounds like a plan that may work. Even if OTA Root keeper fails I see a thread with a root method that is working on ICS leaks so it should
[should being the operative word here as stated this is all subjective reasoning from my time and use of Android and many different devices there is NEVER 100% certainty EVEN IF we had access to the OTA and had a method there is no accounting for any errors caused by a multitude of things [download corruption, bad blocks in memory during flash, you missing a step and borking the whole process, etc.] so no one will ever be able to say with 100% certainty that you will not have some rare issue and have a problem even with a tested method [and if someone does try to tell you something is 100% they have not dealt with technology and computers long enough to realize nothing is ever guaranteed even fully certified OTAs have caused bugs not accounted for and been stopped, recalled, or otherwise modified when users try to apply them and have issues ]
Anyways, I did read where you flashed the ICS leak via CWM recovery and everything I have been reading about flashing ICS on a Bionic involves the STOCK recovery and not CWM [most postings even SPECIFICALLY state to NOT USE CWM AND ONLY USE STOCK Recovery [but then again I read a lot] so if I had to trace the issue you had the with the limited information you have provided about your specific experience I would prolly point to that as prolly causing the problem. See the ICS with files thread here and that is again specified as part of procedure [basically format EVERYTHING restore it back to out of the box 902 then using STOCK recoveries to apply .905 then the ICS leak THEN after ICS is running they have a rooting batch file in there as well [so no worries about rooting in .902 and using OTA Rootkeeper to sustain it in .905 and on just get stock .905 unrooted to the phone then flash ICS with stock and root once it is fully completed and drivers and all on computer side are good [dont forget to enable USB Debugging [and in ICS there is an option to allow SU to apps only OR APPS AND ADB and after rooting you may need to enable the ADB side for any super user root checks if checking via ADB] but dunno if that is CM9 only option, but seems to be stock ICS setting in developer [it protects you if you use and leave enabled the ADB over the network function from others who may find your device over a network and getting SU access].
Sorry, I digress, all to say sorry to here you had the issue, but I think you may have missed something in the install process and here's how to address it, and your methodology seems sound in theory, but there is other information already available to augment your procedure and make it easier on you, my bad.
Hope all the info helps....
Here is that thread mentioned above that seems to distill what I have read on numerous boards in to one easy to download pack with instructions that has users replying that they have had great success with it: [Guide} Bionic to ICS w/Files
I see it mentioned a few times but what on the phone prevents say 4.4.2 from being installed after the upgrade to 4.4.3?
Because the partion table and bootloader are different and can't be downgraded at all.
Or, you can downgrade... But brick your device after, even later.
Anyone who knows anything about the moto x will tell you just don't. ?
I find that odd. I wonder what the purpose is for doing that.
There is no way to just re-write those sections? Even on a Dev Edition?
knitler said:
I find that odd. I wonder what the purpose is for doing that.
There is no way to just re-write those sections? Even on a Dev Edition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Security!
Look at the whole Windows/AntiVirus industry.
All because Microsoft wanted unsecure compatibility with the old OS.
Saving software dev time making things work.
knitler said:
I find that odd. I wonder what the purpose is for doing that.
There is no way to just re-write those sections? Even on a Dev Edition?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the Dev edition is no different. All the same "rules" apply.
The Dev edition is the same as any other.... It just keeps is warranty if you unlock it.
aviwdoowks said:
Security!
Look at the whole Windows/AntiVirus industry.
All because Microsoft wanted unsecure compatibility with the old OS.
Saving software dev time making things work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm kind of not buying this for a second?
How about linux, which is often pointed to for its security... And you can upgrade, down grade, switch out every component for newer/older/different, switch kernels, upgrade kernels, downgrade kernels... hell change out kernels with out even rebooting.
Really not buying it has anything with security.
KJ said:
Or, you can downgrade... But brick your device after, even later.
Anyone who knows anything about the moto x will tell you just don't. ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think we understand that, I mean if the OP didn't he wouldn't have the question of "why not?". Its not I think it might be a good idea... We are just trying to understand the situation because it seems unique, and so we were hoping someone who knows a lot about
AGISCI said:
Because the partion table and bootloader are different and can't be downgraded at all.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the most I have heard so far, and I have heard it once or twice... But can't the recovery image include information on the partition table?
I realize the way it is, but was curious on some more technical information explaining it...
scryan said:
I'm kind of not buying this for a second?
How about linux, which is often pointed to for its security... And you can upgrade, down grade, switch out every component for newer/older/different, switch kernels, upgrade kernels, downgrade kernels... hell change out kernels with out even rebooting.
Really not buying it has anything with security.
I think we understand that, I mean if the OP didn't he wouldn't have the question of "why not?". Its not I think it might be a good idea... We are just trying to understand the situation because it seems unique, and so we were hoping someone who knows a lot about
This is the most I have heard so far, and I have heard it once or twice... But can't the recovery image include information on the partition table?
I realize the way it is, but was curious on some more technical information explaining it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is security. Specifically the SECURED BOOTLOADER. Don't confuse secured with locked. Yes, you can unlock your bootloader, but it is still secured.
Read up on "TrustZone" and see why it is important, and why the OEMs would not want you to be able to downgrade. You can "buy" or "not buy" whatever you want....
I really don't get the linux reference. We are talking about a bootloader, not linux in general. That's beyond the fact that any smart linux user would almost never have any reason at all to downgrade. Think about the heartbleed vuln that was discovered recently. Why on god's green earth would you want to downgrade openssl back to a version that is vulnerable??
The early (4.2.2 & 4.4) bootloader (motoboot.img) was vulnerable to an exploit that allowed us to disable write protection. The updated bootloader (4.4.2+) is patched. You *CAN NOT* downgrade back to the vulnerable version.
^Does that not have *everything* to do with security??
scryan said:
I'm kind of not buying this for a second?
How about linux, which is often pointed to for its security... And you can upgrade, down grade, switch out every component for newer/older/different, switch kernels, upgrade kernels, downgrade kernels... hell change out kernels with out even rebooting.
Really not buying it has anything with security.
I think we understand that, I mean if the OP didn't he wouldn't have the question of "why not?". Its not I think it might be a good idea... We are just trying to understand the situation because it seems unique, and so we were hoping someone who knows a lot about
This is the most I have heard so far, and I have heard it once or twice... But can't the recovery image include information on the partition table?
I realize the way it is, but was curious on some more technical information explaining it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because even though the patition file and bootloader are included in the archive, they fail to flash because they have a lower version than what is installed.
AGISCI said:
Because even though the patition file and bootloader are included in the archive, they fail to flash because they have a lower version than what is installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can't just fake the version number?
No, it's not possible.
samwathegreat said:
I really don't get the linux reference. We are talking about a bootloader, not linux in general. That's beyond the fact that any smart linux user would almost never have any reason at all to downgrade. Think about the heartbleed vuln that was discovered recently. Why on god's green earth would you want to downgrade openssl back to a version that is vulnerable??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The linux reference was in direct reply to the quote above it that was making the argument that the PC anti-virus industry as well as the proliferation of malware and viruses is an example of the insecurity that is a result of a computers administrator having the technical ability to downgrade his OS software.
I mention linux because he was using PC OS's as an example, and Linux allows you not only to downgrade... but rewrite the bootloader. Or use a different bootloader. You bootloader can boot securely with UEFI, or you can just use BIOS. All this insecurity, but virtually no viruses, and very few security issues.
Why would you want to downgrade openssl? I wouldn't. I probably wouldn't flash back to an earlier version of android either... I keep my system pretty damn up to date. The point is more that his assertion that MS and Windows proves that being able to downgrade creates inherent security issues doesn't really hold up when you look at other systems that provide even more freedom.
samwathegreat said:
You can "buy" or "not buy" whatever you want....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, and that is why I want to understand what it is I would be buying.
AGISCI said:
Because even though the patition file and bootloader are included in the archive, they fail to flash because they have a lower version than what is installed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I guess this is the part that we are not understanding. Perhaps because I don't understand enough and have not looked through decompressed recovery images enough... but basically the issue is that Motorola is bricking the device, rather then letting it be downgraded to an potentially insecure image. I am guessing then this is a soft brick?
Does recovery not have the ability to re-write the partition table though? Is there no partition table information in this recovery image? I get that the stock recovery would not allow it, but wouldn't a developer edition user be able to flash a custom recovery that wouldn't have issues flashing the partition table. Don't TWRP or CWM, ect do this?
I guess then that is where the trust zone comes in...
scryan said:
The linux reference was in direct reply to the quote above it that was making the argument that the PC anti-virus industry as well as the proliferation of malware and viruses is an example of the insecurity that is a result of a computers administrator having the technical ability to downgrade his OS software.
I mention linux because he was using PC OS's as an example, and Linux allows you not only to downgrade... but rewrite the bootloader. Or use a different bootloader. You bootloader can boot securely with UEFI, or you can just use BIOS. All this insecurity, but virtually no viruses, and very few security issues.
Why would you want to downgrade openssl? I wouldn't. I probably wouldn't flash back to an earlier version of android either... I keep my system pretty damn up to date. The point is more that his assertion that MS and Windows proves that being able to downgrade creates inherent security issues doesn't really hold up when you look at other systems that provide even more freedom.
I know, and that is why I want to understand what it is I would be buying.
I guess this is the part that we are not understanding. Perhaps because I don't understand enough and have not looked through decompressed recovery images enough... but basically the issue is that Motorola is bricking the device, rather then letting it be downgraded to an potentially insecure image. I am guessing then this is a soft brick?
Does recovery not have the ability to re-write the partition table though? Is there no partition table information in this recovery image? I get that the stock recovery would not allow it, but wouldn't a developer edition user be able to flash a custom recovery that wouldn't have issues flashing the partition table. Don't TWRP or CWM, ect do this?
I guess then that is where the trust zone comes in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The custom recoveries don't flash gpt.bin nor motoboot.img so using a custom recovery it's impossible to correctly flash a Moto X. You MUST use stock recovery with a Moto X. The problem isn't that it causes a brick by flashing an old version. The problem is that a brick happens the next time you do an OTA update. When the OTA update occurs there is a mismatched partion table and bootloader, so it ends up causing a brick.
The developer edition and the standard moto x are 100% identical. They only difference is that you don't void the warranty when you unlock the bootloader on the dev edition, however with the non dev edition your warranty is voided. So the same problem with the partition table and the bootloader ALSO apply to the developer edition as well.
AGISCI said:
The custom recoveries don't flash gpt.bin nor motoboot.img so using a custom recovery it's impossible to correctly flash a Moto X. You MUST use stock recovery with a Moto X. The problem isn't that it causes a brick by flashing an old version. The problem is that a brick happens the next time you do an OTA update. When the OTA update occurs there is a mismatched partion table and bootloader, so it ends up causing a brick.
The developer edition and the standard moto x are 100% identical. They only difference is that you don't void the warranty when you unlock the bootloader on the dev edition, however with the non dev edition your warranty is voided. So the same problem with the partition table and the bootloader ALSO apply to the developer edition as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well said :good:
Still the answer is security.
So upgrade as Moto intended & do not downgrade!
---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------
scryan said:
Is there no partition table information in this recovery image? I get that the stock recovery would not allow it, but wouldn't a developer edition user be able to flash a custom recovery that wouldn't have issues flashing the partition table. Don't TWRP or CWM, ect do this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Our recovery devs never restore such partitions or boot loader elements.
scryan said:
The linux reference was in direct reply to the quote above it that was making the argument that the PC anti-virus industry as well as the proliferation of malware and viruses is an example of the insecurity that is a result of a computers administrator having the technical ability to downgrade his OS software.
I mention linux because he was using PC OS's as an example, and Linux allows you not only to downgrade... but rewrite the bootloader. Or use a different bootloader. You bootloader can boot securely with UEFI, or you can just use BIOS. All this insecurity, but virtually no viruses, and very few security issues.
Why would you want to downgrade openssl? I wouldn't. I probably wouldn't flash back to an earlier version of android either... I keep my system pretty damn up to date. The point is more that his assertion that MS and Windows proves that being able to downgrade creates inherent security issues doesn't really hold up when you look at other systems that provide even more freedom.
I know, and that is why I want to understand what it is I would be buying.
I guess this is the part that we are not understanding. Perhaps because I don't understand enough and have not looked through decompressed recovery images enough... but basically the issue is that Motorola is bricking the device, rather then letting it be downgraded to an potentially insecure image. I am guessing then this is a soft brick?
Does recovery not have the ability to re-write the partition table though? Is there no partition table information in this recovery image? I get that the stock recovery would not allow it, but wouldn't a developer edition user be able to flash a custom recovery that wouldn't have issues flashing the partition table. Don't TWRP or CWM, ect do this?
I guess then that is where the trust zone comes in...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Smh I normally don't chime into these threads but I had to, you can't downgrade the bootloader because of security/compatibility plan and simple. It's the same concept as why you can't downgrade most PC's bios, if there is a flaw found in the system as a whole, then they don't want you to downgrade to that version. A lot of the times when people brick their device trying to downgrade is because it will flash, but because an efuse was blown when it was upgraded the downgraded version will not boot. Yes the recovery can technically rewrite those partitions but again because the efuse was blown it will not boot. Also yes being able to downgrade on any system Windows, Linux, Unix, IOS, Xbox, PS, etc are causes to security issues. If you can downgrade a system to a vulnerable version, it is then by definition less secure, no matter how you try to spin it. Take the futex vulnerability which affected most linux kernels from the past 5 years, so why would any desktop linux user ever want to downgrade to a vulnerable kernel? They wouldn't but if the end user isn't knowledgeable of the vulnerability they wouldn't know that downgrading makes them vulnerable. So since phones are used by so many people who are not knowledgeable of vulnerabilities, why would you want to give them the opportunity to downgrade themselves to a vulnerable OS?
Appreciate the info given... I don't want to downgrade, I am not trying to downgrade, I understand why its a bad idea, ect...
My view point was more questioning the insistence that it being technically possible to downgrade creates a security flaw on a machine that is kept up to date by a responsible individual. Unless we are trying to speak more abstractly about that fact that given someone the opportunity to make a mistake makes it more likely for one to occur, I don't think that security threat exists until you actually use that ability to downgrade to something with a flaw.
I guess then it comes down to personal viewpoint of do I want my phone to brick it self to protect me from myself and like sam said, you choose to go elsewhere... But then that is somewhat what I am trying to figure out. Even though its not something I would probably ever have to deal with, I don't like the idea... But "bricking" can be such a vague term with manufacturer specific recovery tools and "different levels of bricking".
Just trying to understand how what and when actually happens. I probably need to read some more of the recovery threads, and I have been looking through old threads here while considering VZ dev moto X and waiting for the x + 1 announcement, but I figured I would jump on the thread while it was here.
I understand keeping it simple because its generally a bad idea all around, and its just best not to confuse things... but its been hard to find deeper discussion or information then the general warnings. A bit of a better picture from this thread though.
aviwdoowks said:
Still the answer is security.
So upgrade as Moto intended & do not downgrade!
---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:30 PM ----------
Our recovery devs never restore such partitions or boot loader elements.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
By "Our recovery devs" do you mean the ones doing the moto specific stuff? Do you know if this Is typical of the custom recoveries for other devices?
@scryan
I know far less then other posters, but yes android recoveries are all very similar in that regard.
scryan said:
Appreciate the info given... I don't want to downgrade, I am not trying to downgrade, I understand why its a bad idea, ect...
My view point was more questioning the insistence that it being technically possible to downgrade creates a security flaw on a machine that is kept up to date by a responsible individual. Unless we are trying to speak more abstractly about that fact that given someone the opportunity to make a mistake makes it more likely for one to occur, I don't think that security threat exists until you actually use that ability to downgrade to something with a flaw.
I guess then it comes down to personal viewpoint of do I want my phone to brick it self to protect me from myself and like sam said, you choose to go elsewhere... But then that is somewhat what I am trying to figure out. Even though its not something I would probably ever have to deal with, I don't like the idea... But "bricking" can be such a vague term with manufacturer specific recovery tools and "different levels of bricking".
Just trying to understand how what and when actually happens. I probably need to read some more of the recovery threads, and I have been looking through old threads here while considering VZ dev moto X and waiting for the x + 1 announcement, but I figured I would jump on the thread while it was here.
I understand keeping it simple because its generally a bad idea all around, and its just best not to confuse things... but its been hard to find deeper discussion or information then the general warnings. A bit of a better picture from this thread though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The thing is you keep looking at it from a PC point of view, where you basically have full control over the software and hardware. Phones have much tighter restrictions on them from carriers, fcc, etc they're not personal computers. So the reason they make it where you can't downgrade the bootloader is because that's what controls the restriction on downgrading any other partition on the device.
So with the Moto X's 4.4.4 update they probably blew an efuse, so users with a locked device can't downgrade. This is done because with locked devices they can only flash signed kernels, so by blowing the efuse they can't downgrade to the vulnerable 4.4.2 and below kernel even though it is signed correctly. This is because lets say a malicious app was able to get on a device that had the ability to downgrade say back to 4.2.2. That app could flash the older vulnerable signed kernel to the recovery partition, to disable write protection gain more control over the phone etc, without the users knowledge. Now that is a stretch and probably will never happen but that doesn't mean the threat isn't there, and hackers are very creative at deploying malicious attacks. So by updating the bootloader and blowing an efuse the older vulnerable kernels can't be flashed. Now this is all negated if you're unlocked of course, but if you don't want to ever worry about this issue don't update your bootloader. This is not recommended but I've mentioned it several times on this forum I haven't updated my X's bootloader since I bought it, it's still running the factory 4.2.2 bootloader, running 4.4.4 with no problem.
The other thing you're missing is we're technically not supposed to have the ability to restore our phones, except for the developer edition of course. The fastboot restore files are leaked not released to the public, they are designed for use when phones are returned to be refurbished. So they don't want the phones that are being refurbished to be flashed back to an older version, they want it to be refurbished and the latest software version flashed to it.
iKrYpToNiTe said:
The other thing you're missing is we're technically not supposed to have the ability to restore our phones, except for the developer edition of course. The fastboot restore files are leaked not released to the public, they are designed for use when phones are returned to be refurbished. So they don't want the phones that are being refurbished to be flashed back to an older version, they want it to be refurbished and the latest software version flashed to it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A bit selfish, and perhaps lazy of me but I am only really here talking about the developer version, I just haven't bothered to write the full "verizon developer edition " every time (most of this is research for next phone, which will be developer handset)... To me, obviously a locked phone is going to have weird restrictions and hacked together paths to getting things done, your not supposed to have admin rights...(yeah, maybe I do look at it too much as a computer. Mostly because I am annoyed the differences seem intentionally imposed). But when I pay outright for a device so that I can own it and have full administrative control... anyways, thats a different more philosophical discussion. The point is I have been talking about an unlocked device using third party software where possible.
Either way, appreciate the reply. I have a better understanding of the issue... Though coming from an S4 it still seems weird that MDK*/developer phones don't seem to have the same issues/warnings. It would seem however that the difference may be that MDK/dev owners only use kernels/roms prepared for their devices and do not update the bootloader. I suppose if more people in the Moto X community were worried about maintaining the ability to downgrade an unlocked device it would be technically possible to upgrade in a way that could be easily reversed, similar to the S4.
(*MDK was the first VZ S4 firmware, and the only one that has a released exploit to allow for a full custom recover. Later locked firmwares must rely on safestrap)
Is it possible to unlock?
At this moment, no.
You will know as it'll be reported here very early. There are some third party companies that do it. Some are cheaper than others.
For the moment, there is nothing..
Sucks I know
I asked this before on another similar thread and didn't get a response. Is it possible to dump the bootloader from either an unlocked or locked phone to analyse it for potential vulnerabilities either in how it handles the unlock code, or more generally that would allow a user to soft-mod unlock the phone? I know for the 5th, 7th, and 9th gen Fire 7 tablets exploits were found in the LK part of the bootloader which eventually allowed for a customised version of TWRP to be flashed onto the devices, and later LineageOS. If we could dump the current Huawei bootloader surely we could try to find if there are any similar exploits?
I am found metod but it needs mrt dongle((
Tbh custom roms aren't really important anymore. Google is already ruining android everytime a new update comes around, like the overlay feature that was introduced in oreo but then removed for no reason.
Besides EMUI is already optimised for the chip so, again, no reason for custom roms and/or rooting (unless you want to remove bloatware but that can be solved via ADB)
The Restless Soul said:
Tbh custom roms aren't really important anymore. Google is already ruining android everytime a new update comes around, like the overlay feature that was introduced in oreo but then removed for no reason.
Besides EMUI is already optimised for the chip so, again, no reason for custom roms and/or rooting (unless you want to remove bloatware but that can be solved via ADB)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am need it for root and lineage os