Database Develop

Privacy: The pendulum should swing both ways...

There is a bit of uncomfortable and uneasy feeling with the advent of a GPS device on my hip, not that I really have anything to worry about, but the US was built on Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Seems that we should remove the Liberty part of that as of late, but damnit, if they want to watch me and invade my privacy, it should NOT be on my dime, further more, I’d like to think that the pics I take of the latest female won’t be observed by an assigned GMAN torn from his family and in need of whacking himself off.…
Anyway, I saw a Treo 750 that had a privacy tab on the GPS applet, (obviously privacy from carrier from data provided by BT GPS device, knowing they distribute the same binary, this should be reproducible on our HTC devices, knowing we run Windoze, and I haven’t seen anything to monitor what the system console has been doing, and to top that off, there is periods with my Tilt that the interface is unresponsive, and I am not the only one that has had a problem with the Google maps app connecting to com4. So anyone out there wonder what MY device is doing with MY processor ticks besides me?
Anyone out here that has been looking into the reg entries for the GPS applet?
?Glitch

ummm what?
the GPS is not active unless you're using a GPS program like TeleNav, Google Maps, Windows Live Maps, TomTom Navigator etc.
and how is anyone going view pics that you take with your phone without your knowledge? GPS is only for position information, data cant be transferred by GPS. and who the hell is watching you anyways? unless youre on the FBI's most wanted list or something no one cares or wants to know where you are or what you are doing.
geez, paranoid much?
oh, and GPS or not, you can be tracked just by having a cell phone on you. its call triangulation using cell towers. hows that for paranoia.

All approved cell tracking apps have to send the device a text every few days confirming that it is being tracked (to avoid spouses tracking their other halfs)...
But that doesn't mean that people aren't hacking them and developing unapproved ones...

You knew this already when you bought your phone. And who is watching you anyway. And if it is really neccesery you provider can track you by in and outgoing phone calls to see where you were at a certain time. So your privacy was gone as soon as you got your first mobile phone.

tinfoil hat?

tripitaka said:
tinfoil hat?
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I was thinking Thorazine.

dscline said:
I was thinking Thorazine.
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Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?

?Glitch said:
And as for my rant, yes I knew I purchased a device with GPS, but I didn't purchase a device for the spooks, it is my processor, my processor ticks, my OS, my hardware, if I bought the spooks a device I'd have sent it to them, if they want to use my device in the interest of surveillance, then they should pay me for my system resources... No free lunch, understand?
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And as the guys said, the GPS has nothing to do with anyone being able to track you (other than potentially being slightly more accurate). If you are seriously worried about all of the above, then buy an old mine (in a false name) and live down it.
Personally, I have no plans to commit terrorist attrocities or criminal activity, so I don't mind if Police/Government could track me (or more importantly suspected terrorists/criminals) if they wanted to.

Personally I expect they'll stick to good old network triangulation - it's cheaper, it works with any mobile, and there's literally no way you'd ever know "they" were doing it
Sleep tight now...

Just send a letter to President Bush and Congress thanking them for the good 'ol Patriot Act that was passed some years back...

?Glitch said:
Keep telling yourself that while at&t has created their own programming language to parse the data they compile on everyone and turn it over to the spooks. Keep up with the EFF as of late? Ever wonder what a gov't might be capable of if held ABOVE the law? What about an evident relationship between big biz and a gov't capable of these ethics, or lack there of... Really think about it, how long will it be before state gov't gets ahold of the data and begins to issue speeding tickets based on GPS data gleened from our devices, do you think it would be that difficult for the radio to open com4 and collect data without blinking the orange light?
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First of all, it was a joke. Get a sense of humor. Secondly, if you do believe everything you type, then you should not expect such things to be so easily circumventable as changing a few reg keys. If you want to change the way things are headed, fight with your vote, and with activism, not with "hey, I bought this device because I think it's cool, even if the potential is there for it's capabilities to be used against me... anyone have any easy fixes?"
No matter what is possible, the fact remains that there are billions of civilians, compared to a relatively small number of people who could potentially have access to such data. If you have done nothing huge to draw significant "national security" type attention to yourself (which I have to assume you haven't, posting on on public board and all), the chances are minuscule that anyone who could invade your privacy has any interest in doing so.
"Blocking access" to a single phone that no one is even going to try to access isn't going to solve anything. And if we get to the point where our phones DO get used for the purposes you describe, it's too late. At this point, you're better off focusing your energies on a political front rather than a technological one.

I don't think the concern is the government. Now, electronic tracking data is becoming an issue in civil legal proceedings (lawsuits, contested divorces, etc.) - "EZ-Pass" toll data is one example, and auto-tracking systems are another.
I'm personally not too worried about this, but I can see why some law-abiding people might be concerned.

Help make GV/MyFaves piggy backing legit

http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=AndroidPlans&thread.id=1785
You know they already know about it, so don't give me crap for "Letting the cat out of the bag"
Bump the thread please and lets try to make this a t-mobile policy.
(probably will never happen, but if we can convince them that this polocy will gain them customers it may)
The post for those too lazy to go and read it
Currently there is a way to add your google voice number to MyFaves and avoid using any minutes for almost any call.
I don't know if this is "Working as intended" or is an unplaned gaff....
Let me tell you why T-Mobile should not only let this happen, but encourage this.
I have a G1, cheapest plans possible. my bill is around 60 bucks a month...
If this MyFaves/GV trick became something i could count on here are the actions i will take with out question.
I will Buy my wife the MyTouch (canceling her current Virgin Mobile pay as u go plan)
I will change my calling plan to a "MyFaves" famlie plan
I will have unlimmited data plans on both phones.
I will cancle my current home phone (Vonage)
My T-mobile monthly bill will go from $60 a month to over $125, and it will become my and my wife's main phone lines.
Also with work/friends i am the known "Android hacker" and people listen to me...
When i tell people about this possiblity they get excited and want in on it.
T-Mobile... be the "Data Pipe" Google wants you to be, you will gain subscribers
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.

ekeefe41 said:
http://forums.t-mobile.com/tmbl/board/message?board.id=AndroidPlans&thread.id=1785
You know they already know about it, so don't give me crap for "Letting the cat out of the bag"
Bump the thread please and lets try to make this a t-mobile policy.
(probably will never happen, but if we can convince them that this polocy will gain them customers it may)
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Yes, they know about it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to give them the impression that this is a mainstream usage scenario.
Often service providers will tolerate a small percentage (lets say 1-5%) of their customerbase that uses a signficantly larger proportion of bandwidth than average. They may be losing money on these customers, but as long as the loss is lower than the loss that would be incurred due to negative press from terminating those customers, they will let the small percentage slide.
By bumping/posting that thread, you are basically giving T-Mo (and any other carrier with similar pricing) a reason on a silver plate to go and shut the MyFaves "loophole" right now. Kudos.
*Note: I don't have MyFaves, so I could really not care less how it turns out from a personal standpoint.

jashsu said:
Yes, they know about it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea to give them the impression that this is a mainstream usage scenario.
Often service providers will tolerate a small percentage (lets say 1-5%) of their customerbase that uses a signficantly larger proportion of bandwidth than average. They may be losing money on these customers, but as long as the loss is lower than the loss that would be incurred due to negative press from terminating those customers, they will let the small percentage slide.
By bumping/posting that thread, you are basically giving T-Mo (and any other carrier with similar pricing) a reason on a silver plate to go and shut the MyFaves "loophole" right now. Kudos.
*Note: I don't have MyFaves, so I could really not care less how it turns out from a personal standpoint.
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I couldn't have said this all better myself.
To OP: Be happy with the loophole you have now. Make this mainstream and you'll see the loophole closed up nice and quick.

Here is the thing...
I personally will not do the things in my post unless i can confirm it is something i can rely on.
scenario
I buy a 2nd phone for the wife
I cancel my home (Vonage) phone line
I then begin to rely on this piggy backing as a part of my monthly finances...
BOOM
T-mobile closes the loophole.
I am stuck with an extra phone/Plan that i can't get out of....
My bill goes through the roof because these phones are now our only voice option.
Until i get a confirmation from T-Mobile i will push the issue...
If it ruins it for everyone... so be it
When it comes to contracts and my monthly finances, there is no room for guess work.

ekeefe41 said:
If it ruins it for everyone... so be it
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Haha. I like your attitude!
When it comes to contracts and my monthly finances, there is no room for guess work.
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Then... why are you relying on beta services and loopholes for your core telecommunications?
It seems to me that what you need to get is one of those truly unlimited in-region calling (I think MetroPCS has something like that? Also T-Mo has the Unlimited Loyalty Plan.) You can be assured that you'll be billed a flat monthly rate that way regardless of your usage and regardless of whether or not you are routing through GV.

I love the flimsy rationalization going on this thread.

jashsu said:
Haha. I like your attitude!
Then... why are you relying on beta services and loopholes for your core telecommunications?
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Not quite...
I have the G1 $60-month
Wife has a pay as you go $20ish-month
home phone is vonage $30-month
About $110 a month for phone services.
If this loophole/beta service turns to be legit. Then I will make major changes to my phone providers. (like i explained in my T-mobile post)
Oh yea... I am cheap and a control freak when it comes to contracts and bills.

uberingram said:
I love the flimsy rationalization going on this thread.
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Please explain your self.
If i am going to agree to additional contracts, i need to know the scope of what is allowed and what is not for my own protection.

ekeefe41 said:
Please explain your self.
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1) Your life's micromanagement must make you a joy to be around
2) jashsu said it best. You are giving carriers a reason to enforce "Fav" calling to individuals and not blanket numbers. The phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" only applies if annoying customer (e.g. you) is the only one affected. This is not the case here. Especially since Google purchased the 1 million some odd numbers from Level 3.
3) You're using a known buggy service that's very still much in beta as your sole means of telecommunication. For someone so uptight about control that seems oddly, and stupidly, out of character.
4) It's stupid to think that this will actually gain customers. There are a fixed number of Google Voice numbers in existence and I can pretty much assure you they are all spoken for.
Edit: Just to elaborate on #4, Last night I used the call back feature of GV. Do you know how long it took the service to ring my phone? 8 minutes. That's perfectly acceptable for your only means of telecommunication.

ekeefe41 said:
If this loophole/beta service turns to be legit. Then I will make major changes to my phone providers. (like i explained in my T-mobile post)
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I don't know what industry you work in, but let me just put it bluntly and say that generally large multinational corporations don't make potentially significant alterations to their business plan based on whiny posts on their forums. It is questionable whether anyone with the authority to make a declaration of the kind you are hoping for even reads or has a pr secretary that reads that forum on t-mobile.com.
If (and i'm not holding my breath here) they legitimize unlimited calling in some kind of promotion/profit-sharing deal with Google, that was probably planned months in advance by a team of profit-cost analysts and in no way whatsoever did they give two ****s about your petition. I can just about guarantee that.

uberingram said:
1) Your life's micromanagement must make you a joy to be around
2) jashsu said it best. You are giving carriers a reason to enforce "Fav" calling to individuals and not blanket numbers. The phrase "the squeaky wheel gets the grease" only applies if annoying customer (e.g. you) is the only one affected. This is not the case here. Especially since Google purchased the 1 million some odd numbers from Level 3.
3) You're using a known buggy service that's very still much in beta as your sole means of telecommunication. For someone so uptight about control that seems oddly, and stupidly, out of character.
4) It's stupid to think that this will actually gain customers. There are a fixed number of Google Voice numbers in existence and I can pretty much assure you they are all spoken for.
Edit: Just to elaborate on #4, Last night I used the call back feature of GV. Do you know how long it took the service to ring my phone? 8 minutes. That's perfectly acceptable for your only means of telecommunication.
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The only thing i manage like this is my bills....
Wife does not even know the password to our banking acc...
It is not even something we discuss, it is something i just handle..
So in fact, i am a pleasure to be around, because it is something i just do, and never talk about.
But thanks for trying to be insulting.
I have been using GV for almost a week now, no 8 minute, no bugs.
The service has been good enough that i am considering major changes to my service providers. A change that would give me more functionality at almost the same cost...
I am not sure i fully grasp your hostility.
Any contract i am involved with i like to know everything i can.
If that is strange to you... well that's your issue.

ekeefe41 said:
The only thing i manage like this is my bills....
Wife does not even know the password to our banking acc...
It is not even something we discuss, it is something i just handle..
So in fact, i am a pleasure to be around, because it is something i just do, and never talk about.
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I don't want to take this thread too far off-topic, and in no way should this be taken as an insult, but i'd be pretty concerned if my partner opened a joint bank account and didn't share the password. Maybe that's just me though...
Have you perhaps considered the possibility that you just think you're pleasurable to be around?

jashsu said:
I don't know what industry you work in, but let me just put it bluntly and say that generally large multinational corporations don't make potentially significant alterations to their business plan based on whiny posts on their forums. It is questionable whether anyone with the authority to make a declaration of the kind you are hoping for even reads or has a pr secretary that reads that forum on t-mobile.com.
If (and i'm not holding my breath here) they legitimize unlimited calling in some kind of promotion/profit-sharing deal with Google, that was probably planned months in advance by a team of profit-cost analysts and in no way whatsoever did they give two ****s about your petition. I can just about guarantee that.
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I suppose it is less a petition, and more of a wish for clarification.
I know for a fact that google would like ISP's and Tel-Co to be more like a "Pipe" for data. With Google controlling as much content as they can (for advertisement $$)
This Google Voice product is a perfect example of this coming to fruition.
All you need is one TelCo jumping on board and prices come down for everyone.
Thank you for calling my post "whiny"... i was trying to make a point. I must have done a poor job.

ekeefe41 said:
If it ruins it for everyone... so be it
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That is a ****ty attitude and goes against everything this forum stands for. It sounds like a child, if I cant have it then no body will. I just hope you realize your place, you should be thankful you have a FREE Google voice number and that there are ways of saving large amounts of money through minor hacks. If you can use them to your advantage then awesome, if not, then oh well you arent loosing anything. I just think you would get a much better reception if you came into this looking for help and trying to help the community instead of the ultimatum you have presented us with.

jashsu said:
I don't want to take this thread too far off-topic, and in no way should this be taken as an insult, but i'd be pretty concerned if my partner opened a joint bank account and didn't share the password. Maybe that's just me though...
Have you perhaps considered the possibility that you just think you're pleasurable to be around?
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ha ha ha!
I have like a "Quiz" day with her every once in a while.. aka, if i died could you access our bank accounts.
She Fails on a regular basis.
She does not have access to this stuff by my choice, in fact i have given it to her multiple times, multiple ways for her to remember.
She wants nothing to do with it.
It's not that i am a control freak... it's that she is lazy and does not want to concern her self with this stuff.
But yea, we have spiraled way too far in to my personal life, hehe

brandenk said:
That is a ****ty attitude and goes against everything this forum stands for. It sounds like a child, if I cant have it then no body will. I just hope you realize your place, you should be thankful you have a FREE Google voice number and that there are ways of saving large amounts of money through minor hacks. If you can use them to your advantage then awesome, if not, then oh well you arent loosing anything. I just think you would get a much better reception if you came into this looking for help and trying to help the community instead of the ultimatum you have presented us with.
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I am asking people to bump the thread in the t-mobile thread... if they like the idea of this piggybacking.
I myself, for the way i treat bills and contracts, need specific clarification so i will keep pushing regardless.
If you don't agree, then don't bump the t-Mobile thread.

Ugg.... never mind.
It looks like it is official a bug (not intended)
http://devin.reams.me/free-google-voice-calls-with-t-mobile-myfaves/
UPDATE: as mentioned by Josiah in the comments, this violates this statement on T-Mobile’s website: “Your five numbers must be US domestic numbers and must not include … customers’ own numbers; and single numbers allowing access to 500 or more persons.”
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aad4321 said:
yeah but because you wont have free incoming you will have to set the gv number to show on an incoming call and add it to the fav5. long story short u will not know who i calling you unless you have that stupid press 1 to accept thing.
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That would be the big limitation
But with google voice you can listen in on the message before you pick up

yea this needs a lot of clearing up....gvoice isnt widely available

UMA
ekeefe41 said:
Not quite...
I have the G1 $60-month
Wife has a pay as you go $20ish-month
home phone is vonage $30-month
About $110 a month for phone services.
If this loophole/beta service turns to be legit. Then I will make major changes to my phone providers. (like i explained in my T-mobile post)
Oh yea... I am cheap and a control freak when it comes to contracts and bills.
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Click to collapse
why dont you get a UMA phone form T-mobile, for a few bucks a month and drop your Vonage right there saves u about 25$

S5 update coming to AT&T variant?

Anyone know anything about this?
http://www.goandroid.co.in/samsung-galaxy-s5-update-brings-performance-tweaks/37180/

quordandis said:
Anyone know anything about this?
http://www.goandroid.co.in/samsung-galaxy-s5-update-brings-performance-tweaks/37180/
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I'm curious about this too. I've been checking the updater and theres no software update available.

The screenshots in that article are for the Canadian variant -- G900W8.

It'll probably take a while for any update to get "certified" by the big @, plus I think I'm going to avoid doing software and security policy updates in case an exploit for this current version is found.

smknutson said:
It'll probably take a while for any update to get "certified" by the big @, plus I think I'm going to avoid doing software and security policy updates in case an exploit for this current version is found.
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I have to wonder how many full-time employees AT&T and Samsung have that do nothing but monitor the web (mostly XDA) for whatever goes on here at XDA so they can react to any potential important discoveries, mods, or developments.

scott14719 said:
I have to wonder how many full-time employees AT&T and Samsung have that do nothing but monitor the web (mostly XDA) for whatever goes on here at XDA so they can react to any potential important discoveries, mods, or developments.
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For the longest time I have thought this..............
I thought I was the only one...

I too also thought this....it had occurred to me that it would be particularly clever and prudent to have your finger on the pulse of your "power users", but then it occurred to me that because it's such a smart idea, they're guaranteed NOT to do it (keeping in line with they're history). So that's my logic....

As nefarious as that sounds, it's almost guaranteed that the engineering portions of Sammy/AT&T that are responsible for security monitor forums and social media such as this. Probably even have moles portraying themselves as ignorant users.

smknutson said:
As nefarious as that sounds, it's almost guaranteed that the engineering portions of Sammy/AT&T that are responsible for security monitor forums and social media such as this. Probably even have moles portraying themselves as ignorant users.
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I'm sure that engineers look at XDA and other developer/user forums out of interest or even as part of the job; but unless something directly affects Samsung or AT&T in a manner that is costing them a significant amount of money I doubt any action is made in response. Remember these are corporations, money/time is not spent chasing a relatively few users who choose modify their phones, even if it is to evade fees and/or modify a locked feature. It just doesn't make a large financial difference.
Apple certainly pursued a cease and desist strategy but I think that was mostly out of a control freak corporate culture. Other than tethering for free,what do rooting and custom ROMs actually cost AT&T or Samsung? We still buy their phones loyally and pay for the service. If it mattered enough they would take greater steps to lock stuff down, or routinely push updates to secure their devices when exploits are found.
Just my take on it - I'm a pretty paranoid dude but not in this regard. We just don't matter much to them.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2721505
I know the qualcomm guys look. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk

TOA Duck said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2721505
I know the qualcomm guys look. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
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the sad thing is all those files and scripts wouldn't have provided us any solution to root or unlocking the boot loader, those were qualcomm scripts and files but only for signing the mbr/mbl nothing unfortunatley to do with unlocking it or rooting the device in any manor, the certs may have been helpfull in tricking odin in to believing a custom rom was official is the only thing that i could actually see coming out of that.
and I was a little leary of the member in the first place, he offered no tangible proof that the scripts did anything all he did was list a directory of files, and when he was asked to provide proof that he actually rooted or unlocked a bootloader he refused to respond.

delawaredrew said:
I'm sure that engineers look at XDA and other developer/user forums out of interest or even as part of the job; but unless something directly affects Samsung or AT&T in a manner that is costing them a significant amount of money I doubt any action is made in response. Remember these are corporations, money/time is not spent chasing a relatively few users who choose modify their phones, even if it is to evade fees and/or modify a locked feature. It just doesn't make a large financial difference.
Apple certainly pursued a cease and desist strategy but I think that was mostly out of a control freak corporate culture. Other than tethering for free,what do rooting and custom ROMs actually cost AT&T or Samsung? We still buy their phones loyally and pay for the service. If it mattered enough they would take greater steps to lock stuff down, or routinely push updates to secure their devices when exploits are found.
Just my take on it - I'm a pretty paranoid dude but not in this regard. We just don't matter much to them.
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One thought. Samsung and Apple are both making big enterprise plays. My company in it's BYOD program is pushing Samsung hard over other Android phones because they are more locked down with corporate policies mandating encryption and forbidding rooting/jailbreaking coming soon to my employer, I can see how a locked down phone is more attractive to them and could lead to more sales, not yet.
We're not their only market, and in the grand scheme of things, there may be more money for them going this path.

stoobie-doo said:
One thought. Samsung and Apple are both making big enterprise plays. My company in it's BYOD program is pushing Samsung hard over other Android phones because they are more locked down with corporate policies mandating encryption and forbidding rooting/jailbreaking coming soon to my employer, I can see how a locked down phone is more attractive to them and could lead to more sales, not yet.
We're not their only market, and in the grand scheme of things, there may be more money for them going this path.
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What they should be doing is making business/gov contracted phone deals locked down, and leaving the consumer phones as is, that's what they should be doing. Honestly TW is pretty good now and wouldn't bother me if I couldn't flash a rom (obviously I want to), however not having root and not being able to actually delete (not just disable) bloatware is f'n annoying lol.

TOA Duck said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2721505
I know the qualcomm guys look. Lol
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk
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Huh thats interesting. I had argued it was worthless since QC hadn't sent a takedown. May have to take another look.

New Update

There is an ota update of 142.00mb, Im trying to download it and I keep getting error. it reboots into recovery and says 25% then it boots into main phone, then it says install update was unsuccessful. Any ideas? I did have my phone rooted it before, the method I used was threw the app store.

the_professor. said:
There is an ota update of 142.00mb, Im trying to download it and I keep getting error. it reboots into recovery and says 25% then it boots into main phone, then it says install update was unsuccessful. Any ideas? I did have my phone rooted it before, the method I used was threw the app store.
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Go here...http://forum.xda-developers.com/att-galaxy-s5/general/g900and3tong3keeprootota-zip-t2862299
Read trouble shooting

I dont want to root it again, i wanted to unroot it, i seem to be having alot of problems since I rooted .

the_professor. said:
I dont want to root it again, i wanted to unroot it, i seem to be having alot of problems since I rooted .
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You don't have to root, that's why I said read the trouble shooting in the op.

what is op? sorry

the_professor. said:
what is op? sorry
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Opening post or sometimes Original poster.

I've been getting a notification about an update that I repeatedly decline. About 15 min ago it was forced to my phone but failed. What I mean by forced is I had no option to decline/remind me later. Now my biggest issue with that is how do they know or why do they think I'm not using my phone to handle important business? That is what aggravated me the most. Assuming I want the update, and attempting to force it on my phone. I'm pissed for real for the first time with AT&T.

Assassyn said:
I've been getting a notification about an update that I repeatedly decline. About 15 min ago it was forced to my phone but failed. What I mean by forced is I had no option to decline/remind me later. Now my biggest issue with that is how do they know or why do they think I'm not using my phone to handle important business? That is what aggravated me the most. Assuming I want the update, and attempting to force it on my phone. I'm pissed for real for the first time with AT&T.
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Short answer - they don't care. Their interest in maintaining residual control over your property is more important to them than whatever you want to do with your property.

Assassyn said:
I've been getting a notification about an update that I repeatedly decline. About 15 min ago it was forced to my phone but failed. What I mean by forced is I had no option to decline/remind me later. Now my biggest issue with that is how do they know or why do they think I'm not using my phone to handle important business? That is what aggravated me the most. Assuming I want the update, and attempting to force it on my phone. I'm pissed for real for the first time with AT&T.
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Not to defend any carrier but my guess is they felt it was an important enough update and had to be pushed to the phone after the repeated attempts were declined. I agree that this is not a proper practice and perhaps a call to executive services filing a complaint might help in the long run. But as the other 99% of owners that are not rooted or modified will probably just accept the update, they have little concern for the rooted community. One would hope that it was detecting a period of low activity?
Kamchak said:
Short answer - they don't care. Their interest in maintaining residual control over your property is more important to them than whatever you want to do with your property.
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Ah..the old "my property" argument....well what rights you have to things you purchase are subjective. In most communities a homeowner cannot park a vehicle on his own grass, nor keep unregistered vehicles in his driveway unless covered, has to maintain the property...and thousands of other laws and ordinances telling them exactly what they can and cannot do to their owned "property." Cell phones are a communication device thus governed by communication laws allowing the carriers to tell you what you can and cannot do to your "property" for security and communication regulated reasons. The only way around those regulations forcing updates to you (to a certain degree) is to buy an unlocked device from independent sales outlets. Using a certain carrier will then add their restrictions to you in the TOS that you sign.

KennyG123 said:
Ah..the old "my property" argument....well what rights you have to things you purchase are subjective. In most communities a homeowner cannot park a vehicle on his own grass, nor keep unregistered vehicles in his driveway unless covered, has to maintain the property...and thousands of other laws and ordinances telling them exactly what they can and cannot do to their owned "property." Cell phones are a communication device thus governed by communication laws allowing the carriers to tell you what you can and cannot do to your "property" for security and communication regulated reasons. The only way around those regulations forcing updates to you (to a certain degree) is to buy an unlocked device from independent sales outlets. Using a certain carrier will then add their restrictions to you in the TOS that you sign.
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Although I understand what you are saying, and (being a homeowner) understand the realities of your post, I am uncertain as to the purpose in making the answer. Although my answer may be an old argument, that doesn't make it an erroneous argument. Their consideration for our interests begins and ends with our wallets. They couldn't care less about what we want to do with our communication equipment, whether bought from a certain carrier or an independent sales outlet. I'd venture to guess that their TOS isn't any different, regardless from where you obtain the property.
As far as there not being a way around their control, isn't that why this site exists? I thought what xda-developers was here for was to help people get the most out of their devices by providing a collaborative environment where people could share their experiences of creative use and exploration of said property without restriction by other entities?

Kamchak said:
Although I understand what you are saying, and (being a homeowner) understand the realities of your post, I am uncertain as to the purpose in making the answer. Although my answer may be an old argument, that doesn't make it an erroneous argument. Their consideration for our interests begins and ends with our wallets. They couldn't care less about what we want to do with our communication equipment, whether bought from a certain carrier or an independent sales outlet. I'd venture to guess that their TOS isn't any different, regardless from where you obtain the property.
As far as there not being a way around their control, isn't that why this site exists? I thought what xda-developers was here for was to help people get the most out of their devices by providing a collaborative environment where people could share their experiences of creative use and exploration of said property without restriction by other entities?
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What you say is true...I was just trying to clarify the entitlement I see way too often regarding what people feel are their rights to do what they want with their "property." As a communication device it is not fully anyone's property until deactivated.
This site does exist to help members do more with their devices than intended by the carrier..however that comes with ramifications like voiding the warranty or violating TOS. There are many posts made by people thrown off of their carrier for tethering huge amounts of data. As for a way around their control...there are many methods available on this site to avoid updates. At the first sign of an unwanted updated the OP should have sought those methods out. I know...it was a surprise that it got forced on the device (though failing) without consent. I am sure there is some clause in the TOS allowing that. So I apologize if it seemed my post was directed at you..it was just to clarify this "property" idea that I see spouted way too often around this site. :good:

KennyG123 said:
Not to defend any carrier but my guess is they felt it was an important enough update and had to be pushed to the phone after the repeated attempts were declined. I agree that this is not a proper practice and perhaps a call to executive services filing a complaint might help in the long run. But as the other 99% of owners that are not rooted or modified will probably just accept the update, they have little concern for the rooted community. One would hope that it was detecting a period of low activity?
Ah..the old "my property" argument....well what rights you have to things you purchase are subjective. In most communities a homeowner cannot park a vehicle on his own grass, nor keep unregistered vehicles in his driveway unless covered, has to maintain the property...and thousands of other laws and ordinances telling them exactly what they can and cannot do to their owned "property." Cell phones are a communication device thus governed by communication laws allowing the carriers to tell you what you can and cannot do to your "property" for security and communication regulated reasons. The only way around those regulations forcing updates to you (to a certain degree) is to buy an unlocked device from independent sales outlets. Using a certain carrier will then add their restrictions to you in the TOS that you sign.
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I was able to get them to go away after freezing the updater apk file with Titanium BackUp. Haven't been bothered since. I think if it's that serious to where they need to force an update, they should at least tell us what the major concern is. Very likely that they won't but it's ok, I "fixed" it enough for my liking.

Assassyn said:
I was able to get them to go away after freezing the updater apk file with Titanium BackUp. Haven't been bothered since. I think if it's that serious to where they need to force an update, they should at least tell us what the major concern is. Very likely that they won't but it's ok, I "fixed" it enough for my liking.
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Yes! Thankfully there is no shortage of information on this site on how to prevent OTA's and the annoying nags.

KennyG123 said:
Yes! Thankfully there is no shortage of information on this site on how to prevent OTA's and the annoying nags.
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I take my annoying nag out to dinner a couple times a month. Oops don't tell her I said that or I'll be building another doghouse. ????
"You stay classy San Diego"
Sent from my G900A powered by XKRom GoldLimiTed.

Is my device fully secure?

I have Oneplus 3T Oxygen OS 4.1.6
My friend told me yesterday that android can be easily hacked, But i dont believe him
I have encryped my device+lockscreen pin+fingureprint+No malwares+ security pin for recovery and os startup too
Usb debugging is disabled, as well as oem unlocking disabled too, My question is if someone steals my device will he be able to get my data?, Will he able to change IMEI?, Without changing any hardware
My friend is betting on that android can be hacked even if i its secured. Is there any chances that it can be hacked????

Does this friend even have any specific technical knowledge of smartphones, Android, etc.; or just repeating rumors and hearsay?
Speaking not as a security expert, but just as a longtime Android user: Hacking like you said (unmodified phone, stealing it and trying to access your personal data) is pretty much nonsense. In strict technical terms, any device can be hacked eventually. But it would be difficult to do so, given the phone is encrypted. And by the time they did that, most folks would have been savvy enough to cancel their credit cards, change their important passwords, etc.
You can also remote wipe the phone, although it needs to be powered on, and connected to the Internet to do so. And smart thieves will have shut off the phone and/or turned on airplane mode.
Predominating philosophy would be that criminals are going for the lowest hanging fruit. It's far more likely the thief will just wipe the phone, and try to sell it. On the data theft side, there are easier methods to steal personal info than trying to hack an encrypted phone.

https://xkcd.com/538/

Didgeridoohan said:
https://xkcd.com/538/
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Yeah, pretty much!

redpoint73 said:
Does this friend even have any specific technical knowledge of smartphones, Android, etc.; or just repeating rumors and hearsay?
Speaking not as a security expert, but just as a longtime Android user: Hacking like you said (unmodified phone, stealing it and trying to access your personal data) is pretty much nonsense. In strict technical terms, any device can be hacked eventually. But it would be difficult to do so, given the phone is encrypted. And by the time they did that, most folks would have been savvy enough to cancel their credit cards, change their important passwords, etc.
You can also remote wipe the phone, although it needs to be powered on, and connected to the Internet to do so. And smart thieves will have shut off the phone and/or turned on airplane mode.
Predominating philosophy would be that criminals are going for the lowest hanging fruit. It's far more likely the thief will just wipe the phone, and try to sell it. On the data theft side, there are easier methods to steal personal info than trying to hack an encrypted phone.
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I understand what you said, There was a debate between me and my friend which is better ios or android, He told me even with extreme security on android i can be easily hacked without even any harware change? This thing is annoying me, How could someone get access is I have encrypted+security pin+Recovery Pin. Is it still possible to get into device?

Your friend sounds like a crazy apple fanboy (no offense). I personally wouldn't even bother to engage in that argument, it's pointless. Don't worry, your device is perfectly safe.

Ritss778 said:
There was a debate between me and my friend which is better ios or android
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I suspected as much. I don't think your friend has any clue about Android or smartphone security.
Ritss778 said:
He told me even with extreme security on android i can be easily hacked without even any harware change? This thing is annoying me, How could someone get access is I have encrypted+security pin+Recovery Pin. Is it still possible to get into device?
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Your friend is just plain wrong if he is saying your phone can be "easily" hacked just because it's Android. This just sounds to me like an ill-informed Apple fanboy, who wrongly thinks a device is "inferior" just because it's not Apple; without actually knowing any technical details or information.
These smartphones all do the same things, fundamentally. iOS is not significantly any more or less secure than Android. Just look at the massive iCloud hack where hundreds of celebrity photos were stolen. And your friend want to say his phone is "more secure" just because Apple?
Malware is probably the biggest security threat for Android (more so than iOS). But as long as you only install only reputable apps, and halfway careful when allowing app permissions, you should be safe. And it doesn't sound like malware is what your friend is talking about, but rather physical theft and subsequent hacking.
In theory, hacking any device is "possible" (given enough time and effort) but that doesn't mean its probable. Nothing about Android makes it "easy" to hack outright. It would probably take a hacker days, weeks, if ever, to break the encryption. And it would require a technological wizard. It's not even worth the effort, for relatively little payoff (at most, gaining your access to your bank account?). Someone with that much skill is going after bigger fish, like the kind of security breaches that compromise thousands of credit card numbers.
In reality, criminals will go for lowest hanging fruit. Folks with phones that are not encrypted or secured. Or some phishing scheme or social engineering to obtain a password or other personal info. Why spend hundreds of hours trying to hack a single phone's encryption, when you can trick someone into giving you their credit card number in a few minutes?
In any case, iPhones are the most stolen phone, last I heard. Therefore, your friend is at more risk of just having his phone stolen, in the first place.
---------- Post added at 11:56 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 AM ----------
-Ric- said:
Your friend sounds like a crazy apple fanboy (no offense). I personally wouldn't even bother to engage in that argument, it's pointless. Don't worry, your device is perfectly safe.
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Pretty much the point I was trying to make, but without all my rambling! :laugh:

Ritss778 said:
I understand what you said, There was a debate between me and my friend which is better ios or android, He told me even with extreme security on android i can be easily hacked without even any harware change? This thing is annoying me, How could someone get access is I have encrypted+security pin+Recovery Pin. Is it still possible to get into device?
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Think from a different prospective...
If your phone is stolen doesn't matter iOS or driod or xyz. There are ways to get access to data.
If you are using it then security and safety depends on one thing. Your brain.
In terms of data, most data we have resides in cloud including photos, facebook, whatsapp, we chat etc etc. It's all in cloud owned by someone to advertise on us.