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I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
FYI, check also XDA official' RULES: Please read this before posting
You need another voting option: post a link to the appropriate page/site (Wiki, MrVanx's Guide etc) and advise them to read as much as possible and understand what they are doing before they create a very expensive brick, without wasting time insulting and looking like an arrogant ****.
Short polite and to the point.
Unless you have a hangover of course........
I second that option
That didn't even work in this case.
That one's not even smart enough to click on the hyperlink to get the information he was "spoon fed".
newbie2 said:
That didn't even work in this case.
That one's not even smart enough to click on the hyperlink to get the information he was "spoon fed".
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tragic....i cant beleive people like this do anything else on their phone other than pressing numbers and hitting send/end.
chrisjasper said:
You need another voting option: post a link to the appropriate page/site (Wiki, MrVanx's Guide etc) and advise them to read as much as possible and understand what they are doing before they create a very expensive brick, without wasting time insulting and looking like an arrogant ****.
Short polite and to the point.
Unless you have a hangover of course........
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Click to collapse
I think the 3rd option is the one that comes nearest in this situation.
Here´s a proposal
Prerna said:
I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I´m a member of another forum (not related to phones nor PPCs !) Whenever a question comes on an issue of those already answered a ton of times the moderator "sends the member posting the question TO READ", this means that this member has no right to post anything during a week. I don´t know if this forum has such capability and I don´t know neither if the mods would be willing to take this "extra" job.
Sounds quite drastic, although maybe a base to think of other possibilities how to handle the issue.
Surely, XDA deserves better than what I've seen in the past few weeks in the Hermes' forum.
Answer the question or STFU
But above all, don't reply to the post with an RTFM Noob post only. Maybe answer the question then do an RTFM in the same post.
RTFM posts add no value whatsoever, aside from making the poster feel smart.
-Humbert
Prerna said:
I'm saddened by the high increase of irrelevant posts, and even more about the sometimes aggressive responses given to newbies.
As I see it, there is no way to completely get rid of newbies' questions or posts. So, the poll' question is: what should be the best attitude toward irrelevant posts/questions?
I hope this poll might contribute some how in having a better conduct and efficiency here in XDA.
Cheers everyone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I am new to this forum. But, I have to agree we need aggressive measure to deal with people don't do the work of search.
Personally, I don't have many posts because I can find answers to almost all of my questions just by searching and spend time reading. So, not all newbies are bad, but you need to deal with the bad ones with a hard hand.
You senior members are getting about as bad on this issue as the newbies asking the same questions over and over. If you would have used the search button, you would have found that there have been 3950 threads about what to do with newbies and 423,654 flame posts to a newbie. Okay, so that was a joke but, for the love of all things holy, can we move on?
Sincerely,
Newbie who uses search button, has read the wiki (in part so far) and who doesn't ask questions that could in any way be misconstrued as not having done the aforementioned.
Scratch that. I am now a junior member. Woohoo for me!
help them,
some people are not pda svay and new to it all,they may have had a cell prior and dont work in a tech/IT role so may not be to sharp on a lot of the tech side
Everyone starts somewere,if you can take the time to reply with an insult or try google ,then you can find the time to point em in the right direction
Imagine if you took your car to be looked at and got the same response,ok the info is free and you can use search,but a little help goes a long way
its the net ,use it to gain info and spread it,not sit being smug or post insults
if we all use the net to its full potential we can achive so many things
i am sure we all have been newbies before. how would you have like to be treated/replied?
i suggest if the noob question is polite, then answer it politely and give some advise on how to use the search function and the wiki.
if the noob question is somehow impolite, aggressive, etc., perhaps a little apprehension/reminder is required.
jaceuk said:
help them,
some people are not pda svay and new to it all,they may have had a cell prior and dont work in a tech/IT role so may not be to sharp on a lot of the tech side
Everyone starts somewere,if you can take the time to reply with an insult or try google ,then you can find the time to point em in the right direction
Imagine if you took your car to be looked at and got the same response,ok the info is free and you can use search,but a little help goes a long way
its the net ,use it to gain info and spread it,not sit being smug or post insults
if we all use the net to its full potential we can achive so many things
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You've taken your car to be looked at and NOT got the same response?
Wow, you have nicer car mechanics in your area.....
There are various levels of noob, which need to be distinguished between.
There are those who have tried to search and read but not fund the answer, although it may be there. (maybe wrong search terms)
There are those who have not looked hard enough and are just being lazy. (perhaps they were put off by the huge number of posts etc)
There are those who demand answers without looking.
There are those who demand answers to questions which demonstrate that they really have not even tried to get any kind of an idea of what they are doing.
Favourite recent examples are :
CAN I LOAD WINDOWS MOBILE 6.0 ON SONYERICSSON M600i (UIQ 3)
i have downloaded black v3 but want to check if it will install to my Dell Axim aswell as my spv????
Where can I get Windows Mobile 6?
Tis funny, another post on what to do with us...
Hi, as a noob myself, new to the hermes, nothing else... I lurked here for a while before actually registering... I was really disheartened by the posts of RTFM and the like... I tried searching for my answers with the limited capabilities of this forum (don't get me wrong, I like the forum, but the search sux), but rarely could find what I was looking for... It wasn't until someone actually included a link to another noob with the various ways to successfully search the forum, that I decided to register...
If we could use the google search link as a sticky, it may help... I believe that the google advanced search link is included in the FAQs, if not, it should be... but I have simply added it to my sig... My suggestion would be for those of us who tire from 'ignorant' posts to do likewise...
(turn back on crowd and leave soapbox for next speaker)
Google search sticky
debonairone said:
If we could use the google search link as a sticky, it may help... I believe that the google advanced search link is included in the FAQs, if not, it should be...
(turn back on crowd and leave soapbox for next speaker)
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Click to collapse
It´s been there for a while
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304582
By the way, check it, it´s been updated recently with good info for the WM6 adicts....
Read this!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=304959
Whatever. You know the seniors' stance is questionable when the entire purpose of setting up another private forum is to "get away from n00bs", and when you hit 100 posts you aren't even allowed to ask a simple, obscure question because it appeared in a topic like more than 6 months ago, and you're supposed to be "experienced" enough to know.
Everyone here has valid points, but it still doesn't solve the problem... It will not be an easy one to solve, as long as the search function is not blatantly put in front of noobs... As I said before, I lurked for a while before even registering because of the flaming posts for "stupid" questions... Need everyone be reminded that English is not the first language for everyone on this board...? That makes it a little harder for someone to properly search for the correct items and locate them... Then they are tasked with understanding what is written... And since it has become okay to use acronyms while typing, translators cannot keep up... Hell, it took me a couple of hours to figure out what RTFM meant...
Anyway, making things a bit easier for those with less knowledge cannot possibly be a wrong turn...
I've noticed a pattern lately.
1. There has been a large influx of new people that disregard the walkthroughs, wikis and don't know how to search.
2. Our older members have been getting shorter and shorter tempers when it comes to answering n00bs who ask the same questions that have been answered a million times.
So, what are we to do?
The older members need to realize that not everybody is good at using the search feature, which is why I will be writing a walkthrough here. They also need to be a bit more patient with those who genuinely seem to be lost. For those who just don't read, go ahead and flame them. Or at least just give them a link to something and make them read it themselves, that way they feel like "oh... I could've found that myself. Next time, I think I'll search."
How to search:
I understand that the search feature seems somewhat useless because when one searches for say, "how to flash", one gets 20 pages of random things.
So, here are the basics on finding what you need:
Step 1: Check the stickies. The first posts on every forum that say Sticky are posts that were stickied to the top of the forum for a reason. These tend to have all the information you need that people ask often.
Step 2: Know the organization of the forums. I know they're a little crazy. Do you check Herald or Herald upgrading or Herald mobile 6. Usually, if it's related to Window Mobile 6, stick to the Mobile 6 forum.
Step 3: Wikis: If you look at the Herald forum, you'll notice a sticky about the Herald wiki. A wiki, is just that. A wiki. You'll find ALL kinds of useful info.
Step 4: When you search:
Limit your words to ideas. "How to flash" is nice, but "Flashing" or "flash" will do fine.
Words have to be at least 4 letters for it to search for them. Thus "how" and "to" are ignored.
Search titles only first for "how to"s before searching through an entire post. Chances are someone may have already asked the question.
If someone tells you to search for a walkthrough that they wrote, use the find threads by user and find posts by user feature. They're basically telling you everything you need to know to find it.
Ok, so you found a million threads on flashing. Now you see that if you click on thread one, it's not about flashing but it has about 1,300 posts. How can you read EVERY single one of them. When you do a search, if you narrow it down to show results as threads, you'll get the posts themselves that have the words you're looking for an not a thread which mentions "flashing" somewhere in the 1158th post.
One thing, READ EVERY POST, not just the posts that are replies to you. This happens often:
OP: Is it possible to flash my phone with ZOMG teh Best ROM?
1P: What are you trying to flash?
2P: It's impossible. I'm sorry, but ZOMG teh Best ROM was made for HTC's ROFLCOPTER!!!!111 and you have a HTC Normal.
OP: Is it possible to flash my phone with ZOMG teh Best ROM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3P: I can try to help you. What kind of phone do you have?
3P: I can try to help you. What kind of phone do you have?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OP:Awesome thanks!
2P: It's impossible.
OP: Why isn't it working?
2P:
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Click to collapse
This doesn't really talk about the treatment of new people.. but does give a good positive solution which probably will be ignored or forgotten.
it seems quite a few of the people here tend to be jerks to newer people.
the end.
Right to the point
thankx ivanmmj. Indeed a good workthrough
I agree with you abt the newbies. And i seen proof of some circumstances too. Actually for the past 3 days, whenever i check for new post, i find one or two newbie everyday asking mostly abt HOW TO UNLOCK and WHERE TO GET THE ORIGINAL SHIPPED ROMS.
And most of them seem genuinely lost. Sometimes newbies tend to get worried or too excited to check on the search tool. I mean, it isnt everyday that you purchase a new Pocket PC, and then you find out its SIM LOCKED and so on.
And since internet is the answer, we somehow stumble upon this forum and quickly tend to ask question, rather than check on the forum features/threads. Some of us are not the same on that factor.
So its in my suggestion that we create a separate forum for these special areas of need and of Original Shipped Roms page. But anyways this is jus an idea.
And yes abt how newbies are treated, i guess it wud be a lot easier that we direct them to the correct thread with the advice of search tool, instead of blaming anyone to JUST use search tool. I mean, they are newbies, how can they jus know which term to specifically search or how credible a search result is. And a post to the right direction for a newbie, minimizes them from posting again and again and again. It really helps!!!!
yeah Im a jerk...
thx
good to know
I really dont see any point in this "walkthrough"
Dont get me wrong here, its a good idea, but a old one
NO MATTER how many guides, rules, walkthroughs w/e anyone try to make, the socalled nOOb thing will always be present.
Its been tried before, here, and in thousands of other forums
PPL wants quickfix, they dont wanna search, they want us to personally guide them or walk them through everything.
If we make a BIG flashing announcement, most ppl will never care to read. They come to get something cool and leave. They come back if there is a error or a bug and flame us, many times in pm and on msn.
I have considered remove my msn from xda, but I dont because I occationally get some nice contacts.
Since I joined xda, my pm inbox has a couple thousand pm's, half is what I consider junk...
If we are such jerks, then just stay away from our work and our threads, go to those who answer all your questions with a wagging tail.
I have spendt so many hours on this that I dont even wanna think about it, and I get accused that I do it for fame, glory, and w/e
I DONT CARE
you wanna know why I keep releasing builds here after I got my kaiser? I do it because there is some friends here that have asked if I could continue.
I could easily put my roms in private network, but I choose to share what I do, for free....
So if thats beeing a jerk, then im happy to be one. I would rather be a jerk then the opposite.
have a nice day
ayyu3m said:
thankx ivanmmj. Indeed a good workthrough
I agree with you abt the newbies. And i seen proof of some circumstances too. Actually for the past 3 days, whenever i check for new post, i find one or two newbie everyday asking mostly abt HOW TO UNLOCK and WHERE TO GET THE ORIGINAL SHIPPED ROMS.
And most of them seem genuinely lost. Sometimes newbies tend to get worried or too excited to check on the search tool. I mean, it isnt everyday that you purchase a new Pocket PC, and then you find out its SIM LOCKED and so on.
And since internet is the answer, we somehow stumble upon this forum and quickly tend to ask question, rather than check on the forum features/threads. Some of us are not the same on that factor.
So its in my suggestion that we create a separate forum for these special areas of need and of Original Shipped Roms page. But anyways this is jus an idea.
And yes abt how newbies are treated, i guess it wud be a lot easier that we direct them to the correct thread with the advice of search tool, instead of blaming anyone to JUST use search tool. I mean, they are newbies, how can they jus know which term to specifically search or how credible a search result is. And a post to the right direction for a newbie, minimizes them from posting again and again and again. It really helps!!!!
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Ditto.
I have noticed the flaming as well, not just in the herald forum, but in others as well. It is unfortunate and it is my hope that it'll change. I more or less just post the link or post number and move on.
I completely agree with you and totally support Ivanmmj's efforts to minimize countless and repetitive posts requesting/asking the same questions on multiple threads. I, as well as every other "senior" and experienced "junior" member were once nOObs. Regardless, Ivanmmj's efforts are applauded and I thank you.
ITJE .. realize that you are talented and post some of most unique roms here. So of course, many people here are going to consider you as a guru. You may not consider yourself as one, but others do. I don't consider you a jerk in the least, but if you truly didn't care and if you didn't feel you have abolutely nothing to contribute, you would not be here. You've made it abundantly clear "why" you're here now and I thank you for sharing that. Maybe putting your roms in/on a private network might work for you and your friends. Just a thought. You will be missed for sure.
I can truly understand your frustration, but we (senior, juniors, gurus, gurus in-training, even nOObs) truly need to remain positive and objective instead of flaming or blaming. All I want to do is be a support and encourage what you're good at and enjoy (here, lol).
Just thinking if the search could be predominate on the page -- like a huge search box in red or something ???? Then maybe people would use it.
I personally do my best to help people, and always try to steer them clear of PMing or IMing ITJE... because I know how "annoying" it can be to receive thousands of messages from people on here asking the simplest questions.
ITJE, everyone here appreciates your work, and I hate to see you get upset because of a couple of idiots who piss you off when you work so hard for us expecting nothing in return. So let me take this time to apologize on behalf of everyone here and thank you on behalf of everyone for all of your efforts.
It is most certainly true what you say that the n00b will always be present, so I think that the rest of us, need to take those situations and help them n00bs hence alleviating ITJE's responsibility from doing so. It's obvious that most people don't like to read everything and search for answers when it's always easier to ask ask ask.... but in my opinion, that's the whole basis of XDA ... to help others. So basically, what we need to do is a community effort.
All the n00bsout there, PLEASE PLEASE help us, by trying to help yourselves first. We want to help you, we will help you, but you need to do your part in helping us help you. All the information you could ever need is located in this forum.
USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION ON THE FORUM OR USE THE GOOGLE SEARCH of the site in order to search for solutions to your issues.
To the Seniors and Juniors out there, we need to try to be more patient with n00bs... going back and remembering how WE at some point were in that same position. Let's not forget the whole premise of why this site exists and continues to excel in its purpose.
To the COOKS who donate your time, effort, and expertise. Thank you. While some people, primarily because of ignorance, may not appreciate your efforts, please know that we who have been here and know your efforts, whole-heartedly appreciate you and everything you contribute. If it weren't for you, this website wouldn't exist. I know it must be terribly frustrating to have everyone criticizing, complaining and it may feel like they are pissing on your work which you donate selflessly to this site, but know that the majority of us do in fact appreciate what you do more than we express to you.
The search function on this forum is just plain terrible. Either that or I don't know how to search and will look forward to the walkthrough. But even displaying posts instead of threads does not help very much.
My two cents for those trying to search....use google instead and add "site:forum.xda-developers.com" in the search box. At least those results are easier to look through.
ITJE .. realize that you are talented and post some of most unique roms here. So of course, many people here are going to consider you as a guru. You may not consider yourself as one, but others do. I don't consider you a jerk in the least, but if you truly didn't care and if you didn't feel you have abolutely nothing to contribute, you would not be here. You've made it abundantly clear "why" you're here now and I thank you for sharing that. Maybe putting your roms in/on a private network might work for you and your friends. Just a thought. You will be missed for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is that a hint, like..piss off (edit: I AM joking )
jk
I never said I would do that, I said the opposite.
I said I am a jerk cause im staying here.
I dont see what some call flaming of newbees
Its a reaction to lazyness
when sollutions is posted in the post #1 and 2, or maybe 3....written in big letters, and in a thread counting 40-50 replies, the same question is asked in about 10% or more, maybe even asked 1 or 2 pages after the answer or/and the sollution, then..well...
Maybe im not the most patient guy in the world, and I certainly have not tried to be either, but usually I try my best to provide the help I can or am able/willing to give.
And about that "Made it clear why im here thing"
Im here to share my work with all who wants it.
When I got my Kaiser/Tytn2, I decided tomove over there with my work, and sell off my herald. But I was convinced to stay and continue do some work.
And no one can say that I was not called a jerk, cause yes, I obviously do "flame" the socalled nOObs.
Most of it are sarcastic, but its also the truth.
I dont accept that my threads are spammed with 50% bull**** and the same questions over and over.
No matter what I write..Dont spam, read before you ask, use search through google/xda w/e
PPL DONT SEE IT
The jump clear cause they are lazy, they see the message, READ THIS, but they dont.
If I in.ex write like this, on top of the release:
There is a bug with MMS in this release, I am working on it.
Then there will be atleast 5-6 ppl saying MMS is not working, and telling me the rom is unstable because of this
Hell, I even had a guy typing in biggest letters available
WARNING DONT USE THIS ROM, INTERNETSHARING IS NOT WORKING (something like that)
I respect all who wants to contribute, to share what they know.
I respect those who dont know anything, but hangs around, download w/e and use w/e is posted here.
I do NOT respect ppl who comes in and claim they have used search, and not found anything.
Maybe my searchbutton is the only one working, cause sometimes when ppl claim they have been using search, and could not find anything. I tested and did same search and got many hits within 3-5 posts, and found what they had searched for with no problem....
I do not respect ppl whos first and second post is about the flaws in a rom they just downloaded
"I have been around for many years and know my way around the forums, and I know how to find stuff" and they got a postcount that say 5, and they ask questions that makes me wonder if they have a teflon brain, cause if you have been around xda for a long time, and dont even know how to soft and hard reset, then....
I might seam angry in what I have written, or sad, or w/e
Im not
Im just amazed..
cause im a jerk
Totally irrelevant but Itje, you remind me of my best friend of 17 years and he lives 1,500 miles away from me. . He'll say things that sound crude and mean, but underneath, he's truly genuine and warm hearted. My point is that you're a softy . Just joking.
I lately tend to simply ignore questions which I'm sure I have seen a few pages ago or very very close at the beginning.
I fully agree with Itje that it is pure laziness if somebody says he read the thread or spent some time in solving his problems
if the solution to the question is written in the first, second or third post or maybe still on the first page.
It feels like a slap in the face and has the taste of a being lied to, so I rather ignore those person/question and
wish that others who once asked the same question jump in for help and give something back to the forum.
That's the spirit of this forum.
PS: I dont like flaming either, but often it's totally understandable, but still it's wrong.
No offense.. but i've been around here for a long time. I don't post a lot, but I do a lot of reading. I also have been active on many many different boards. What gets me about this board and many others is that some people think they have a whole bunch of clout just because the post a lot.. well whoopty freakin doo..
In regards to the search subject: searching here is a pain in the arse. Nobody's topics are clear, and you can describe what you are looking for in a million different ways. So, what you are trying to fix will not be fixed. The only thing that would be lovely to see change would be to see the flamers come down off their high forum poster horses and join the rest of us on Earth.
Start flame now...
<drunk rant>
To follow up with my claims about topics.. here is an example that caused me to ask for help. This topic:
Sticky: A Herald's Guide to Flashing Aserg, USPL and HARD-SPL
Ok.. so I had done Open Touch 2.3 or something and taken a few weeks from reading the forums and I come back and Open Touch 2.7 was just an NBH file.. so i read the wiki, which leads you to dead links, or at least it did that week when I was trying to figure this out. But here is my issue with that topic.. I look at that I and I think.. "Flashing Aserg" In my mind I think, that's not for me, I don't want or even know what ASERG is, nor USPL nor Hard SPL.. I'm looking for "NBH" right?? Nothing helpful came up. Try searching in the Herald forum for "how to flash nbh" see what you get... unless it's a very specific string you are looking for, good luck.
A fix to that topic? how bout: Sticky: A Herald's Guide to Flashing --using-- Aserg, USPL and HARD-SPL
That would have at least got me into that subject.. and guess what.. there the answer I needed lies.
I finally got it thanks to duprade and ttran001 in this thread that i hijacked: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=362986&page=2
Neither of them flamed.. good dudes.
</drunk rant>
So just to keep you all informed.
Not only in forums but also in Moderator-Talk we are discussing the problem of flaming...
... and there are several point of start...
- more and more people wnat ALL for free and want it personalized to themselfe (like all around the world in "real life"
- reading is time = time is money = all for free = no reading...
- xda is GROWING - when you can get a XDA TErra for 40€ with contract also "young" (i mean yound brains" start buying a PPC for chatting and all that..... But aren´t used to read... jk
- blaming is on of the BEST FREETIME game: see "Big Idol", "Superstar" or ALL the castingsshows round the world.
So what I want to say... the world is getting worse - and that wouldn´t take a break on XDA-dev.
BUT all have to work on it.
Flar - our admin - is working on the searchfunction!!!!
Cookers - maybe the releases must have BIG letters!
Moderator - please don´t take part on flaming and advise other who are blaming
Seniors - please keep helping each other
Noobs - pleas read, read, read
AND to ALL: Please let´s start to keep threads clean again...
A thread with 200post and 20 pages BEFORE the rom is released is NOT the way it should be...
And posts like:
1.: "You are releasing - great"
2.: "I´m downloading"
3.: "Flashing process 80%"
4.: "Flashing 99%"
5.: "Booting"
6.: "I will test...."
7.: "I will report..."
8.: "SO after testing for a while I found ......"
I think to start with post #8 would be the best way to keep threads clean...
Thanks.
Not sure if Ignoring is the answer ....................
If those who know just ignore the questions, then Only Noobs will answer Noobs..........
And if a Noob follows a Noob then both will fall into a pit.
robosiris said:
Totally irrelevant but Itje, you remind me of my best friend of 17 years and he lives 1,500 miles away from me. . He'll say things that sound crude and mean, but underneath, he's truly genuine and warm hearted. My point is that you're a softy . Just joking.
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Click to collapse
yeah, Im a soft Jerk
zcink said:
If those who know just ignore the questions, then Only Noobs will answer Noobs..........
And if a Noob follows a Noob then both will fall into a pit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If we use all our focus on answering the same questions over and over again, then we would spend less time cooking and figuring out the socalled bugs.
your loss...
But from what I understand, in you guys oppinion, we are supposed to answer everyone, no matter what, no matter how many times the same question is asked in a thread, and even if there is a thread with the sollution, maybe even a sticky?
You suggest that we give them a link to the post containing the answer, are we supposed to keep a Favourite list with a link to all answers we have supplied? and that we scroll through it to find the right one and post it?
Or maybe we could use search function? yeah wow, lets do all the work for the newbees...
NO MATTER what I write...its wrong
If I tell them to search, to use either google or searchfunction, they all claim to not find it (most do)
If I guide them to the answer, they keep coming asking next time, and next time and next time. Because they get the answers with no work trying to find it.
This might sound harsh or w/e
But every time I do try to help ppl out, they start adding me to msn, and pm me all the time asking for help and a personalized rom. They start acting as we are old time buddies, and whats next step? Im gonna be everones personal chef?
so im sure you wiseguys have a answer for that to, im sure. But thats because you just dont have a clue what this is all about.
Sure you help out with diffrent issues, and talk nicly to the newbees, thats totally cool with me.
Im sure you even like it, and that nice too.
Maybe we could call it "your function here"
and then I must add, thats not my function here.
Im no good with the "nOOb's" asking the same over and over (....)
A while back I was told (when a similar topic was brought up) just ignore them, and many agreed.
Basicly, thats not an option anymore either
SO, what I figure from all this, is that no matter what I do, im a jerk if I state what I feel in the matter, im a jerk if I ignore the questions.
The biggest problem beeing a person that help everyone out, is that more and more ppl comes to you, because you get a reputation that you are nice, helping and commited. But how much can a person contribute?
to be honest I feel that I am in a situation where I wish I could just cut all this out, I feel that no matter what I say or do, it tends to lead the wrong way.
I love making roms, its a great hobby. I like to help out, but I really dont have the time to get involved personally with everyones issues, everyones new fantastic ideas and cook a personal rom with this or that added, or this and that removed
Im not a bad guy, im not a angry pissed of guy who flames everyone who ask for my help. I have guided many on msn, mail and pm.
I try to look into the problems reported in my roms, and I try fix it. Even if I dont give a answer always to reporte bugs, I do note them, and I try to fix.
But I do have a family, I do have a job, and I do have other interests besides rom cooking.
Occationaly the cup runs over, we get tired of repeating ourself, and we answer in a sarcastic way.
im taking a break from this.
have fun all
zcink said:
If those who know just ignore the questions, then Only Noobs will answer Noobs..........
And if a Noob follows a Noob then both will fall into a pit.
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Of course ignoring is the best answer, but it helps me from starting giving harsh answers.
I rather say nothing if I'm pissed than start blaming and complaining.
Instead of offending the person I rather keep quiet and really hope that people
who get the exact answer once assist with the same answer.
It has nothing to do with noobs helping noobs. It's more about sharing the same spirit to the whole community,
I really don't understand why only a group and always the same has to stand here and help, help, help.
None of us bought the knowledge with buying a PPC, we all sent down and read, read, read.
Things are free here, so the very least people can do is read.
One thing I really would like to see is, that we all should collect the bugs and solutions found over time
and pass it over to the moderator and/or cook to combine them on teh first page as those post are reserved already.
Like this you really can answer the so called stupid question with look in post #3 for the issue.
Like this we could keep the thread clean with all the bull**** as papamopps described.
And since I'm also one of those thread trashers who writes those useless "Thanks for the release" or "Your ROM looks awsome" posts
I will stop with that but try to give more constructive comments.
And even we seniors are not all knowing, I still learn a lot while hanging out here.
Post counts means nothing else than the activeness of a member does not necessarily reflects his knowledge about PPC.
And just like in real life, you don't approach a group of stranger who are in a conversation and start talking or even ask questions.
You listen first and slowly move along the conversation.
That's common etiquette and not just for grown ups also for the younger folks.
Those are common manners around the world.
We are all no employees of XDA-DEV we are all volounteers, so we really deserve the right whether to answer or not.
If we get paid for this I will even tell time and the weather forecast if that's the question ask
As long I'm here in my FREE time I choose whom to answer and whom not.
Cheers
@ Itje
101% behind you thoughts, I prefer being called a jerk too and stick with you guys. Having a good time here is more important for me and if I can only achieve that with ignoring some others, then it's a fair and low price.
I understand all the frustration over this. I apologize if my comment offended anyone. I was half joking. When I first came here, I had question and was just ignored. I always appreciated any help I got no matter how silly. Even now I find it difficult to search here.
I still think the search engine here should be tweaked so its easy to use and goes right to the right threads. One day I read 29 threads before I got the answer to the question I was searching for. I can see why people just ask -- it is irritating to some but easier for those seeking the answers.
anyway, yeah I guess you can just ignore the questions. I mean nobody is obligated to answer anyone.
i dont know why people have to be so f**** rude in here. "use the damn search and etc" all we asking for is for f**** help, i know we have to use the "SEARCH" but damn f***! if you don't feel like helping someone, just shut the f*** up and dont say anything or be rude about it.
This has been discussed already. Please use the Search link up at the top right.
lol, and this is supposed to be a polite post? Come on, lighten up, if the same questions get asked for a thousand times, then i can imagine people sometimes like to point out the search feature of the site
trichau81 said:
i dont know why people have to be so f**** rude in here. "use the damn search and etc" all we asking for is for f**** help, i know we have to use the "SEARCH" but damn f***! if you don't feel like helping someone, just shut the f*** up and dont say anything or be rude about it.
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No my friend, what is rude is to ask other people to waste their time because you are too lazy to do a little bit of research for yourself.
If you can help someone then help them, if you can't then don't. If you just don't want to help then you are just a user. The most repeated thing I have read in these forums is "use the search" if that is the only comment you can make then get lost! It is true in here that some who think they know something are just abrupt and rude to people who they think know less than themselves. Wisdom expresses itself in many ways, the least of which is "use the search".
Please use the search function.
Its there for your service!
We are all here for each others service.
uniqueboy said:
If you can help someone then help them, if you can't then don't. If you just don't want to help then you are just a user. The most repeated thing I have read in these forums is "use the search" if that is the only comment you can make then get lost! It is true in here that some who think they know something are just abrupt and rude to people who they think know less than themselves. Wisdom expresses itself in many ways, the least of which is "use the search".
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Well said! I must say, as a new user (but a seasoned veteran of similar dev sites), I have been dismayed at how simple questions here from noobs like me, are frequently greeted with thinly veiled contempt and disgust.
I just made a prototype app for the Diamond that uses the G sensor, and would like to get some feedback from folks, but I'm reluctant to start a new thread on the topic in case I unintentionally incur the wrath of the the veterans here!
snigfargle said:
I just made a prototype app for the Diamond that uses the G sensor, and would like to get some feedback from folks, but I'm reluctant to start a new thread on the topic in case I unintentionally incur the wrath of the the veterans here!
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I'm sure you won't. Your thread will be most welcome.
However, I strongly feel that anybody should try and do some simple research before asking for help. I don't believe it's very polite (nor educational, for that matter) to simply write a post that essentially says: my time is too important to waste on trivial things like trying to find information, but since your time has no value to me, why don't you do that?
I often tried to find things when answering to others if the issue was not described in the forum. If, on the contrary, it has been discussed (and in many cases more than once), I believe that the Search button should be used.
It would be rude not to...
Actually I think it is pretty sad that most people have nothing better to do than to flame people in forums. If you see a question that is addressed somewhere else then either point the person in that direction or just don't answer. I have to agree that sometimes it is not that the person is using the search link but perhaps they are not searching correctly. This is a professional forum and we do not need unprofessional people in it so please play nice everyone.
A lot of the questions on here remind me of the 300ZX forum I used to go on... "I want to do a Twin Turbo swap, what do I need?" How many times do you think that question was answered? How many stickies do you think there were about that same question? Here's what the veterans are trying to make you do... Come into the forum, search for your answer first, then after you don't find it, ask. It prevents the forum from being cluttered and lets the people who really DO have unanswered questions to get answers more quickly. I'm not going to be mean or disrespectful about it, but please, if for nothing else, for the efficiency of helping each other, try to find the answer on your own before you ask a question.
It wouldn't be so bad if the Diamond forums were old with 100s of threads and the question being asked was last answered weeks ago. But the Diamond forums are relatively new and most of the questions being asked have already been asked on the current page or the page 2. You don't even need to use search to find the answer.
I've only been flashing for less than 2 weeks and so far have managed to find all the tools and guides I need by reading the posts on pages 1 and 2. I didn't need to go any deeper or use search.
So if anyone asks a question which has already been answered dozens of times then you should expect a few people to get annoyed. Afterall it takes less effort to read then for someone to type out an explanation again an again.
Also, a lot of questions are too vague, e.g. I can't flash the hardspl. Maybe if you spent a bit more effort saying what you have tried and exactly where the problem is then you might get more help.
uniqueboy said:
If you can help someone then help them, if you can't then don't. If you just don't want to help then you are just a user. The most repeated thing I have read in these forums is "use the search" if that is the only comment you can make then get lost! It is true in here that some who think they know something are just abrupt and rude to people who they think know less than themselves. Wisdom expresses itself in many ways, the least of which is "use the search".
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Agree 100%. Yeah I get a bit miffed reading the same basic questions, but then when you do use the search engine, it brings back 100's of threads at times, which a new comer to the ppc world might not fully understand.
I had my first ppc phone back with the Blue Angel, and so many guys have helped me along the way since then. It's only the minority who say "Use the search!!!". But having said that, I think this is the least friendly/most abusive ppc forum. I get the general feeling that a few guys in here are above their stations...
Just my 2 pence worth. Not "cents" as I'm British. If you don't know where Britain is, or its monetary system, then use the f**king sear......
snigfargle said:
Well said! I must say, as a new user (but a seasoned veteran of similar dev sites), I have been dismayed at how simple questions here from noobs like me, are frequently greeted with thinly veiled contempt and disgust.
I just made a prototype app for the Diamond that uses the G sensor, and would like to get some feedback from folks, but I'm reluctant to start a new thread on the topic in case I unintentionally incur the wrath of the the veterans here!
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Bro:
If you offer us any kind of app with those characteristics you will never incur in the wrath of the the veterans here!
1. new posts that contains or starts with:crappy, wtf (this is real special to me), what to buy, battery life, gps, what programs, who is better, iPhone, how to? (the answer in the manual), polls-bring the killer instinct in me.
2, new posts that contains or starts with:i can not, help, my diamond.., how to ?, where to find, i searched but...., confused-bring the mother Theresa buried deep in me.
3. new posts that contains or starts with:i developed, solved, news, new program, new game, how to (without question mark)-bring up the happy me together with "lets donate", let's be encouraging answer post.
this is not a graffiti wall. this is a place with rules (when you registered you accepted the rules) and don't start useless threads/posts is one of them.
respect the rules and by doing so you respect the place and it's inhabitants.
giving respect will bring you back respect.
interesting threads are pushed back in 2-nd and 3-thrd page by threads started just to chat. the forum is full with such posts started usually by a noobie that is soon joined but 5-8 other noobies that are happily chating about something that's only by far related with diamond. each posts, each answer is bumping the thread up.
since my diamond is today how i wished to be and i don't have to search (ooops, sorry for using dirty words) for answers or tweaks i found great pleasure in helping ppl that need help but only ppl that at least tried to solve, to search and help themselves first.
i dont know why people have to be so rude in here. "use the damn search and etc" all we asking for is help, i know we have to use the "SEARCH" if you don't feel like helping someone, just shut up and dont say anything or be rude about it.
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first, watch yr language please!
second, i took the liberty to edit yr post. looks better and the message remain the same.
third, sending you to search is help because it means that the solution of yr problem is here somewhere buried between all the posts (too many useless, but who is to blame?). when looking for it you'll usually read posts that you''l remember later when trying to solve other problems. search is good for you and yr diamond.
keep the forum clean ppl!
KukurikU said:
... sending you to search is help because it means that the solution of yr problem is here somewhere buried between useless posts. when looking for it you'll usually read posts that you''l remember later when trying to solve other problems.
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Very good points there KukurikU.
If the Diamond forum wasn't so full of posts which should be in the General forum then it would be easier to find Diamond specific answers.
And, like you said, while searching for an answer to a problem I've read other posts along the way which taught me things I never knew.
trichau81 said:
i dont know why people have to be so f**** rude in here. "use the damn search and etc" all we asking for is for f**** help, i know we have to use the "SEARCH" but damn f***! if you don't feel like helping someone, just shut the f*** up and dont say anything or be rude about it.
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There is one thing i don't understand. This is you're first post so no one has send you to the search function. Maybe you have read a question from a poster with a certain history? Otherwise i don't get i why you register yourself to a forum and start a bad topic.
marco899 said:
There is one thing i don't understand. This is you're first post so no one has send you to the search function. Maybe you have read a question from a poster with a certain history? Otherwise i don't get i why you register yourself to a forum and start a bad topic.
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Hahahaha that's something I didn't notice... He's looking at other users being told to use search and sticking up for them? Lame.
Why did this discussion get started in the Diamond Forum in the first place. This is a general discussion and not related to the Diamond specifically and is yet itself another example of how specific forums get cluttered and why it can get difficult to find what you are looking for in a specific forum.
pedmond said:
No my friend, what is rude is to ask other people to waste their time because you are too lazy to do a little bit of research for yourself.
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Dont answer the Q then and your time wont be wasted! Sometimes its hard to find the answer with the search function and even if you find the thread it could be 50-something pages long...
You know I was and still am a noob at rooting and flashing roms but instead of reading and researching the forums, I find that alot of people just keeps asking questions about simple things and want someone else to do the research for them. Its kind of annoying at times. There has been times where I have asked a question or 10 but trust me I've read the forums first.
Anyone else feel this way?
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
If this is inappropriate please delete, I mean no disrespect, to the dev community.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
this is very true! but what u gonna do there gonna keep asking the same questions! So theres really nothing we can do about it, We were all noobs at once. I just answer there questions and move on with my day but sometimes i get annoyed and answer them with this answer.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=
most people ask wht do i do know with my phone prob?
usual answer is odin back to stock fixes most probs!
So true!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
movieaddict said:
this is very true! but what u gonna do there gonna keep asking the same questions! So theres really nothing we can do about it, We were all noobs at once. I just answer there questions and move on with my day but sometimes i get annoyed and answer them with this answer.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=
most people ask wht do i do know with my phone prob?
usual answer is odin back to stock fixes most probs!
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Click to collapse
I've see you post this exact response on more than one occasion. Like you have it prepared just in case.
Try these 3 methods!!
aio toolbox
usb jig
or
power off phone
pull out battery
GRAB THIS STUFF : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1047087
turn on odin
attach phone to pc with...
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I like the one which rom do I want to run like we know their personal taste
You always start as a noob. Today's annoying noob can be tomorrow's brilliant developer who makes all the goodies for free! People need to stop b***ng about noobs! I was once a noob when it came to SEO, web design and then I was the one helping hundreds of other new noob designers. It's a process you know
That's what stickies are for. They're in every forum on every site, and usually contain useful information. Anyone new should always start there for information. Maybe the rest of the forum should be unlocked for viewing/posting, once the sticky has been viewed.
Noobs
I agree the only difficulty is that I find the search tools on the forums difficult to use. There might be a better search engine or way to orginize the threads to solve this issue.
This is true here and in practically any forum on the internet.
There are noobs (which we all were at one point) and then there are idiots, the ones who register just to get their question answered, never contribute anything to any forum they visit, and are just too lazy to use the search or read stickies.
I was new to the Vibrant and somehow managed to flash my phone and root without having to post a single question. Stickies and search provided all the info necessary.
Some people just can't be helped or want to be spoon fed. Whenever I see a new thread asking something that has already been answered numerous times or is stickied I sometimes wonder if this person has never used an internet forum before, or perhaps are new to the internet itself and don't know their left mouse button from the scroll wheel.
I used to ridicule them now I just ignore them.
That ^ has to be the best signature on XDA. Period.
how do I flash this?
I see no issue with new people asking questions that have already been asked.
The search feature here is sometimes annoying.
Plus, if it annoys anyone so much, just ignore the question and let someone else who doesn't mind answering it to answer it!
I agree on the part that some people say about everyone starting off as a noob.
But god, they don't even TRY.
Before I joined XDA-Developers I had NEVER owned a smartphone.
But I managed to root, flash, unroot and unbrick my phone by myself, just searching around.
What the **** is wrong with u people??? The forums are specifically made for damn noobs, we all were noobs so dont keep **** complaining about damn noobs and all that **** ... Setiously, theres too many ignorant **** on the vibrant forums, wich is y many developers have ditched us here, so quit **** complaining and contribute to the damn forums by simply helping people who need *** help, not by driving them away!!!!
And next time please keep this thread civil and easily readable for others. There are stickies for a reason, and for the most part they cover the basics to get the newcomer up and ready to start flashing the device. Perhaps a mod should change the stickies link to be in large, bold red letters and name it "FREE MONEY. REDEEM IT TODAY!" to encourage visitors. While a newcomer can feel welcome to post a question if they are truly confused, there is a Q&A section for that kind of question, not the general.
As someone who has written many guides, some better than others, I'm starting to think they're not worth the effort. They may be, I just only hear from those with issues, or respond to posted questions.
s15274n said:
As someone who has written many guides, some better than others, I'm starting to think they're not worth the effort. They may be, I just only hear from those with issues, or respond to posted questions.
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I have to disagree, please continue the support and your guides rock!
Before I flashed my first rom I literary spent 2 weeks researching before I got the nerve to flash, and it was your guides that helped me through the process.
Keep up the great work. More donations to come my friend.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA Premium App
Appreciate the kind words.. If you are willing to donate (applaud you, I do also), I suggest shipping me and giving it to your favorite developer. Thank you very much though.
helikido said:
What the **** is wrong with u people??? The forums are specifically made for damn noobs, we all were noobs so dont keep ****in complaining about damn noobs and all that ****in ****... Setiously, theres too many ignorant *****es on the vibrant forums, wich is y many developers have ditched us here, so quit ****in complaining and contribute to the damn forums by simply helping people who need ****in help, not by driving them away!!!!
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Nice choice of words.....please take a seat and buckle up kiddo .
This thread was pointless...yes...but your words are completely uncalled for.....I think a bar of soap and a bottle of tobbasco sauce are in order here
Project-V 6-5-11
Ive been a member here for a long time and while ive held my breath for years ive finally had to get some things off my chest. For one thing I have been a member of multiple communities and multiple forums for many, many years and I understand that while every community is a vast network of people as well as projects, I can say here is the one place without a shadow of a doubt that I almost never post simply because i know one of two things will always happen. One I will either be ignored or two someone will tell me to use the search bar. I understand that there are quite literally thousands upon thousands of pages of things so when either myself or someone who has just started here goes to search and even advanced search there are still thousands upon thousands of choices. If we are a community built on helping each other, why are we not really doing so? Im not asking for you to do the work for me, Im not asking to directly link the post, im not asking for the work to be done for us. What Im asking is why dont we give others a helping hand by you know, giving them a "path"? Saying to them "Search for the words so and so and soforth and soon". Im curious what others think on this subject.
I would say that I think this thread already exists and this should have been posted there.
Please search next time.
StormMcCloud said:
Please search next time.
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This isnt meant as a joke
Weapondrift said:
This isnt meant as a joke
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You do realize that I also provided a link to the proper thread right?
Sent from thousands of years ago into the future.
Weapondrift said:
Ive been a member here for a long time and while ive held my breath for years ive finally had to get some things off my chest. For one thing I have been a member of multiple communities and multiple forums for many, many years and I understand that while every community is a vast network of people as well as projects, I can say here is the one place without a shadow of a doubt that I almost never post simply because i know one of two things will always happen. One I will either be ignored or two someone will tell me to use the search bar. I understand that there are quite literally thousands upon thousands of pages of things so when either myself or someone who has just started here goes to search and even advanced search there are still thousands upon thousands of choices. If we are a community built on helping each other, why are we not really doing so? Im not asking for you to do the work for me, Im not asking to directly link the post, im not asking for the work to be done for us. What Im asking is why dont we give others a helping hand by you know, giving them a "path"? Saying to them "Search for the words so and so and soforth and soon". Im curious what others think on this subject.
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Weapondrift said:
This isnt meant as a joke
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Maybe not, but it comes across as one. You say "If we are a community built on helping each other ..." - that is the problem. XDA is originally a site for Developers - not for noobs to join up and start demanding immediate answers, people to do the work for them, Devs to include everything the noob wants in their ROM, getting pissy when they don't receive an answer in an hour, swearing when they are told to search (not because we are too lazy or arrogant to help, but because searching means they will read, learn and understand WHY and WHAT - so they are far less likely to then screw their phone up totally and start blaming XDA for making that happen).
Does that answer your questions?
It also gets frustrating seeing the same exact thread opened again and again because someone refuses to click the search button. You will notice that if someone states that they made an effort to search prior to opening a thread they will more than likely get flamed less and get an actual link to the thread they are looking for.
StormMcCloud said:
It also gets frustrating seeing the same exact thread opened again and again because someone refuses to click the search button. You will notice that if someone states that they made an effort to search prior to opening a thread they will more than likely get flamed less and get an actual link to the thread they are looking for.
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You'd also notice the people who point out they searched are more likely to post in the wrong place
Sent from my Incredible 2 using Tapatalk 2
SimonTS said:
Maybe not, but it comes across as one. You say "If we are a community built on helping each other ..." - that is the problem. XDA is originally a site for Developers - not for noobs to join up and start demanding immediate answers, people to do the work for them, Devs to include everything the noob wants in their ROM, getting pissy when they don't receive an answer in an hour, swearing when they are told to search (not because we are too lazy or arrogant to help, but because searching means they will read, learn and understand WHY and WHAT - so they are far less likely to then screw their phone up totally and start blaming XDA for making that happen).
Does that answer your questions?
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I realize that, however this is a public forum and we were all new at one time struggling to find out more about our phones. I am not adding for immediate answer I'm saying why can't we say "hey, go look for this" instead it just makes things easier and more friendly. I can't tell you how many times ive actually used the search button and ended up with 7000 threads and this is using advanced. Some people don't have time to read everything in those threads.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
StormMcCloud said:
It also gets frustrating seeing the same exact thread opened again and again because someone refuses to click the search button. You will notice that if someone states that they made an effort to search prior to opening a thread they will more than likely get flamed less and get an actual link to the thread they are looking for.
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Now I wholeheartedly agree with this and I know I'm just as guilty. I agree an effort is needed but also we are supposed to be the ones offering
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
As pointed out above, there is an existing thread where people can rant about things (within reason & the rules).
Thread closed.