Related
Okay, another question that makes me feel kinda dumb.
How can I improve my N1's performance?
Specifically, how in the world do I get my nexus even close to the N1's I see on Linpack's "Top Devices"?
I'm running diet_2.6.33.2.hybrid_avs_925mv_OC with cyanogen 5.0.6. I can get 7.778 MFLOPS. Honestly, I don’t even know what that means. All I know is that I want more. Or do I? Does it even make that much of a difference in everyday usage?
I've noticed that in the JIT thread under development they talk about getting up to 17 MFLOPS, but no one really explains what JIT is or does. Just that it's unstable and that if your not sure what it is, you don't need it.
I can benchmarkPi in 2790 - how in the hell do I get it lower? Under the rom description of some of the top 50 they mention JIT and experimental kernels, but there's not much room for more than just the generic names of them. Where do I get these magical roms and kernels? Do I even want them? Are they so unstable that they can only be used to gain geek cred on some benchmark lists and once they hit the "high score" they explode in flames? Do I need safety goggles before I flash the update.zip?
Seriously though, I know I'm not the only one with these questions - so any info would help. And do me a favor, please do not respond to say that if I don't know - I don’t need to know. At one point, you didn't know either. No one was born with this knowledge.
I know there is a very bright person on here that is willing to take a couple of minutes to shed some light on us simpletons. I'd like to thank you in advance. Thanks.
Even if you get higher linpack scores, you will barely notice any difference in your devices performance... That's why I tend to ignore it. If its possible to get faster than Cyanogen ROMs (not in terms of linpack) I don't know how different things would be.. im curious about how quick Froyo is though.
Oh and have you searched, Jit has been covered in more places than just xda developers, several times it has been discussed I believe.. while using it, my Linpack scores did get into the double digits though - but this (not even that noticeable actually) speed increase was not worth the random reboots, and such. When Jit is stable though, it will be quite nice.. hopefully Froyo has it.
Linpack number did not make any differences in overall usage . Now, I am using my own UV kernel and setcpu max freq to 500MHz.. only... but, I still able to get 26.8 fps in Neocore's 3D benchmark. Playing games, 3D or not, still smooth and fluid.
I also waiting for Froyo and hope we can get even efficient and fast OS.
TQ.
I posted this on another forum with little avail... I didn't want to clutter this one up... However, without a clear answer, and actually very little intelligent conversation that resultant in my reluctance to actually respond... I have to resort to placing this here.
"
So I have been playing around with the OTA 2.2 and decided to run linpack, I noticed an incredibly low score for froyo, (around 12-14) in comparison to the average Froyo score of 30-40. Figured I would play around in the build.prop, noticed JIT was not mentioned. Did they leave out enabling JIT for the Droid X froyo? Or am I missing something here...
"
This was posted back on the 27 of September, since then I have poked around more and still have found little to answer my original question. Seriously, is it possible to have Froyo without JIT enabled... I know better than anyone to take benchmark scores with a grain of salt, it just seems a little odd to me. As a side note, Java performs worse than my Droid Incredible did, while the snapdragon is indeed a better computational processor, it quite significantly outperformed the Droid X in both Linpack and Java (I don't believe in quadrant enough to even run it...) which it truly should not...
Anybody have any reasonable input?
Where did you ever get the idea that 30-40 is a reasonable score for JIT enabled phones? Because of the N1? As I understand it, the N1's processor offloads the JIT compiler, vastly speeding up MFLOPS (Millions of Floating Operations Per Second) which is GREAT for linpack benchmarks, but its really not important as far as real world performance.
Stop taking so much stock in meaningless benchmark tests. MFLOPS are a terrible way to compare device speeds. Especially when you bring a phone into the mix that has a special way of handling MFLOPS.
Apps that test video decoding/encoding and FPS are much more likely to give you a better idea of real-world phone performance
If I'm wrong in any way people, please feel free to enlighten me.
LexusBrian400 said:
Where did you ever get the idea that 30-40 is a reasonable score for JIT enabled phones? Because of the N1? As I understand it, the N1's processor offloads the JIT compiler, vastly speeding up MFLOPS (Millions of Floating Operations Per Second) which is GREAT for linpack benchmarks, but its really not important as far as real world performance.
Stop taking so much stock in meaningless benchmark tests. MFLOPS are a terrible way to compare device speeds. Especially when you bring a phone into the mix that has a special way of handling MFLOPS.
Apps that test video decoding/encoding and FPS are much more likely to give you a better idea of real-world phone performance
If I'm wrong in any way people, please feel free to enlighten me.
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With all do respect, it is responses like yours that anger me slightly (albeit very slightly...). I specifically stated in my post that I do not hold benchmark tests in any regard, in fact I despise them... Quadrant in particular is so incredibly broken that a simple trickery in database write caching can bloat your score to such ridiculous heights, that it is not worth even turning an eye to any more. I did state however, that the benchmark did catch my attention enough to make me investigate the JIT compiler on our device. The only comparison I had to make were with 2.1 devices, in which JIT was referenced in the build.prop. I am unaware how it is enabled in 2.2, hence the question. I specify that as a common score as the Devour, EVO, Nexus, Droid Incredible, Samsung Galaxy I900, and iPhone (yes, i said it...) all see scores in the 30's through linpack. I am not giving those scores any relation to performance, because as I stated in my original post, "I know better than anyone to take benchmark scores with a grain of salt"... but thank you for not reading the full post, and discrediting my post *moderately angry face* (but more jokingly).
But in all seriousness, those phones showing the benchmark, while not giving an impression of performance, did give an impression, or rather a relation, to JIT. While JIT does not give performance increases in the amount shown through benchmarks, the performance gain is significant in some areas, and I would be heartstrucken if they managed to provide Froyo without JIT to the Droid X. I was just looking for confirmation that JIT is enabled, or a way to check. If I cannot get a straight answer around here, I will discover it sooner or later on my own. I am not even sure it is possible to have Froyo without having JIT enabled, but it caught my attention enough to have it investigated.
Sorry, i did not mean to upset you by taking time out of my day to TRY and answer your question. (Twice now)
Yes, JIT is enabled.
Edit:
And I guess I should have noted that I wasn't really talking DIRECTLY to you when I mentioned about people should stop taking so much stock in benchmarks. My bad. That was for others who happen to read this.
You guys... let's play nicely.
FWIW I've heard that JIT is in fact enabled...but the reason it's not very prevalent is because JIT was designed to be very efficient mainly with the qualcomm snapdragons and such..not the TI omap. I could be wrong but I believe this is why...and I believe the X still performs just a smoothly as those snapdragons which score higher on the benchmarks (which, I know, is not the question at hand, just giving my 2 cents).
LexusBrian400 said:
Sorry, i did not mean to upset you by taking time out of my day to TRY and answer your question. (Twice now)
Yes, JIT is enabled.
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Clearly you did not catch the sarcasm and joking tone I had in my writing, my apologies, I updated it to more clearly represent it ;-). Truly was not trying to sound angry, more sarcastically hurt... And I take time out of my day to help people all the time as well... look back at my posts, this is one of the few questions I've asked... I'm not a fan...
I understand, I know who you are... You've done a lot for the community... Thanks... I appreciated the incite and really didn't even care about the comment, I was more just joking about it in that I stated how I don't actually take heed to benchmark scores. Regardless, JIT was an area I am not really all that familiar with, and appreciate the answer. I play more on the system level as I am a Linux Server Administrator and deal mostly with script writing over actual compiling. Sorry if you thought I was taking shots at you ;-)
EDIT: FYI this isn't the first time people have thought I was being an ass to them... I am... what do they call it... anti-social... I just come across that way, I don't mean to however. I think I have actually had this conversation with another Developer on another forum, it ended in him admitting to the same problem... I think we then had crumpets and tea... well maybe not the crumpets and tea, but the rest is true...
Its all good captain taco, I truly wish I had a better answer for you.
the Jit ON/OFF switch, in my other phone, is in the build.prop. However, I do not see it in the Droid X build.prop
From 2.1 to 2.2, the linpack jumped over 6 points. And seeing that its just a software update, I guess you could say I'm blindly assuming that JIT is enabled, but I also want you to take note that apps that have trouble running in conjunction with JIT, also did not perform well until they were updated to work with it.
I can say in 100% confidence and (barely) educated guess, that JIT is in fact, enabled.
Have a good day Taco
LexusBrian400 said:
Its all good captain taco, I truly wish I had a better answer for you.
the Jit ON/OFF switch, in my other phone, is in the build.prop. However, I do not see it in the Droid X build.prop
From 2.1 to 2.2, the linpack jumped over 6 points. And seeing that its just a software update, I guess you could say I'm blindly assuming that JIT is enabled, but I also want you to take note that apps that have trouble running in conjunction with JIT, also did not perform well until they were updated to work with it.
I can say in 100% confidence and (barely) educated guess, that JIT is in fact, enabled.
Have a good day Taco
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Sounds good to me, that's about as good of an answer as it gets. Thanks
Is there not a way to get a real answer to this question? Motorola should be the source I suppose. Anyone have contact info or access to a Moto android software engineer?
Can someone be motivated to ask Moto if jit is enabled in 2.2 on the X?
We can speculate all we want.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
Izord said:
Is there not a way to get a real answer to this question? Motorola should be the source I suppose. Anyone have contact info or access to a Moto android software engineer?
Can someone be motivated to ask Moto if jit is enabled in 2.2 on the X?
We can speculate all we want.
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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I feel as though his answer gives fair evidence that JIT is indeed enabled. It's likely just placed elsewhere, after all it was just a single line calling JIT in the build.prop, it could have been placed in any of the startup files, could be in the boot.img for that matter. I really haven't searched through all of the init scripts, and after reading LexusBrian400's response, I likely won't, I feel pretty assured it is enabled.
read the blog about 1/2 way down on nenolod.net titled "how to improve user performance on android phones"
mcsinfl said:
read the blog about 1/2 way down on nenolod.net titled "how to improve user performance on android phones"
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Have you tried this yourself???
mcsinfl said:
read the blog about 1/2 way down on nenolod.net titled "how to improve user performance on android phones"
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I believe that blog was meant for pre 2.2 android. I am not even sure we are able to make that change in 2.2, though do not hold me to that.
/etc/sysctl.conf is not a file in our system, and at the end of his post the author quotes "Update: Disabling NORMALIZE_SLEEPERS on Android 1.6/2.0/2.1 is a good idea."
Edit: Scratch the above, further digging in the comments section of that particular post:
nenolod says:
July 22, 2010 at 4:56 am
@moo: these are all scheduler enhancements made upstream already. Froyo already has them.
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CaptainTaco said:
I believe that blog was meant for pre 2.2 android. I am not even sure we are able to make that change in 2.2, though do not hold me to that.
/etc/sysctl.conf is not a file in our system, and at the end of his post the author quotes "Update: Disabling NORMALIZE_SLEEPERS on Android 1.6/2.0/2.1 is a good idea."
Edit: Scratch the above, further digging in the comments section of that particular post:
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Click to collapse
The rubix rom has that mod in it. In the changelog, where he mentions "tweaks by nenolod" The Sleepers mod is what he is talking about. I just ran the code from nenlods blog and it went through fine. (on rubix) Sometimes sysctl.conf is in the /sys file I believe. I think thats what nenlod said, I talked to him last night about it because I was curious.
Anyway, it works on Rubix
JIT is enabled without a doubt.
The only reason there was a line in the build.prop was because it was a homemade JIT compiler for our phones. This is probably embedded into Froyo.
Just wanted to confirm, I watched a logcat today for about 15 minutes, JIT came up several times.
Download Alogcat and have a looksee for yourself.
It may take a while, but it'll come up for sure.
CONFIRMED
/end thread
LexusBrian400 said:
The rubix rom has that mod in it. In the changelog, where he mentions "tweaks by nenolod" The Sleepers mod is what he is talking about. I just ran the code from nenlods blog and it went through fine. (on rubix) Sometimes sysctl.conf is in the /sys file I believe. I think thats what nenlod said, I talked to him last night about it because I was curious.
Anyway, it works on Rubix
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Click to collapse
i had a little trouble finding the sysctl file on my phone but it turned up in the /system/bin .
i like to keep a copy of any file i change, incase anything goes awry and I tried viewing the contents of the file on my PC but it was just a bunch of cryptic symbols. Is there a way to see what the file contains?
and thanks for the logcat confirmation of jit
drewden123 said:
FWIW I've heard that JIT is in fact enabled...but the reason it's not very prevalent is because JIT was designed to be very efficient mainly with the qualcomm snapdragons and such..not the TI omap. I could be wrong but I believe this is why...and I believe the X still performs just a smoothly as those snapdragons which score higher on the benchmarks (which, I know, is not the question at hand, just giving my 2 cents).
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Click to collapse
This is exactly true. The OMAP doesn't see nearly the gains from JIT as the hummingbird/snapdragon does.
Hi everybody!
After installing the DocRom XXJPO v9 with lagfix Ext4 ALL (a=e4), schedule kernel, I/O, etc.. and tweaks, and I get 1563 in Quadrant's benchmark(I've just installed, i never ran the test before)...It's a very low value, isn't it?What am I doing wrong?
Thanks!
Take test scores with a grain of salt. It's not the best way of assuming something is wrong with your phone.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
Actually if u look at the other scores unless something has changed I'm pretty sure that is still the highest s ore on that list. No worries.
Sent from my SCH-I500 using XDA App
Uh, yea. I get something between 900 and 1000 depending on the day with official 2.2. Mostly I assume down to the piss poor filesystem speed. It almost always looks like it has hung on the writing test.
Thanks for the responses!
I've read that some people got 2000 and even a little bit more. I guess they overclocked!!
outrun86 said:
Thanks for the responses!
I've read that some people got 2000 and even a little bit more. I guess they overclocked!!
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People may be using an overclock but to the people with the 2000+ scores are using the EXT2 binds option/OCLF.
When using OCLF quadrants shows huge scores in the filesystem part whereas it may not reflect the actual performance of the phone.
Personally so far, hardcores new K10C kernel is by far the fastest I've used yet. He's updates a few things in K10C and my phone is really, really fast. You notice it more in the app drawer and when the phone is under load. I'm also using the all EXT4 option.
You should give K10C a go and see for yourself.
Paul, I'll have to wipe to install this new kernel?
... Quadrant scores are pretty meaningless. Only be worried if you feel lag when you're using the phone.
my scores breach 2000(by 3) but im not overclocked. look at my signature
I'll try this new kernel, PaulForde, thanks for the tip!
nwsk, you're totally right, but sometimes I notice some little lag in my live wallpaper, and I don't have lots of apps in background. That's what made me think about it, install Quadrant and compare the results with some others.
By the way racerboy3801, I see you have BUJP8 v9 installed...[offtopic]Have you noticed any differences with JPA/JPO?[/offtopic]
Simple poll. I am curious to see who uses JIT and who has it disabled? If you answer, please explain why you do or do not use JIT. Just thought I would get people's different input on this
i used to have it enabled but had seen no positive outcomes, just more lag.
but that was when i was running CM6... i havent tried it on CM7 yet.
I know JIT on Sense 2.1 was disastrous for the most part. Have stayed away from it for the most part.
JIT on CM7 is actually very stable, however I observe absolutely no improvement or noticeable change in performance anywhere.
Then again, people also claim a smoother experience when "Allow purging of assets" is unchecked, even thought it is meant to improve performance of low memory devices like ours... YMMV, I guess.
My question is, what are the supposed benefits? Scoring higher on a particular benchmark score and thats it? I agree. It doesn't seem to make my phone any smoother, if anything, it makes it more laggy.
I've been using jit since the days of Ic3 rom and damage's roms as well. I think it just improves data. No speed on the phone just how the phone complies data. I think. But from my time on here if you can't overclock to 768 and run stable then I'd recommend avoiding jit.
Yea its Me Again With The
Modified Hero
In aosp 2.2 I would get an extra 20 or so on my quadrant score with JIT enabled. In gingerbread I haven't seen any improvement at all. I leave it disabled because I heard it uses more ram to speed things up.
I use JIT and I always have since installing custom ROM images. There's a lot of hearsay left over from long before I joined xda-developers that says it causes instability. But this is probably more to do with the original way JIT was brought to the Hero.
The latest official software for the Hero is built from Android 2.1. JIT was not introduced into Android until 2.2. So as far as I know, the original method to implement JIT on the Hero was to hack it into the official software. This is likely where the instabilities were found.
I've been using JIT since dabbling with CM6 (and its derivatives), and I've never seen any negative effects. I do, however, always decrease my VM heap to 24m and enable compcache at 18% when using JIT. Not doing so MAY cause JIT to starve the phone of memory, which could be another source of the instabilities you've seen mentioned.
Some people say JIT isn't necessary because its effects are only noticed in benchmarks such as Linpack. This, simply put, is false. JIT is always going to offer a performance increase. Now, depending on how you use your phone, the increase may not always be very noticeable, but that doesn't mean it's not there. And the less time the VM spends using the processor, the more battery life you're going to see. That's an angle that isn't always addressed when JIT is discussed.
My advice is to leave it enabled as long as you don't specifically see any issues with it. Our sister phone of sorts, the Droid Eris, now has it enabled by default in CM7.
Thanks jasonmaloney, I always prefer hearing answers from people with technical know-how such as yourself. On a CM performance related note, what is your opinion on people reporting better performance with "Allow purging of assets" disabled?
c00ller said:
Thanks jasonmaloney, I always prefer hearing answers from people with technical know-how such as yourself. On a CM performance related note, what is your opinion on people reporting better performance with "Allow purging of assets" disabled?
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I was actually the one who submitted the patch to enable it by default. I've only ever heard of specific issues in relation to ADWLauncher, which, in my opinion, shouldn't ever be used in the first place due to the numerous better-written alternatives.
But I'm starting to wonder whether it has anything to do with the GPS problems people have been seeing.
All I really know for sure is that the graphics subsystems in CM7 for the Heroc are screwed up, and that they're probably going to be that way even when CM7 is finalized.
EDIT: If anyone can find compelling evidence that having it enabled is causing issues, I'll revert the patch and make it disabled by default.
jasonmaloney said:
All I really know for sure is that the graphics subsystems in CM7 for the Heroc are screwed up, and that they're probably going to be that way even when CM7 is finalized.
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Is that a good or bad thing? Yes the words used dictates it's meaning, but what would have been the plus factors if it were squared away?
oohaylima said:
Is that a good or bad thing? Yes the words used dictates it's meaning, but what would have been the plus factors if it were squared away?
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The most glaring example of a problem is seen in running Neocore. None of the textures show up.
Hi, so after cm rooting i noticed there is also an ext4 upgrade...is this worth it and will I have data lose during the change? Im on 2.3.3 and am wondering if it is really worth it! Ed
are you kidding me?
besides that this post should not even be in this forum (try Q & A) there are hundreds of other posts and threads discussing this topic if you only use your -(0-0)- !
Yes and no
It may have some advantages but as for what I'm not sure but as for nay major advantages I would say no. I'm still using EXT2 and my benchmarkes are still 1900+. I've tried almost all the other lagfixes and found no real advantage. The only thing I hate about custom kernels with lagfix is the secondary samsung splash screens and custom splash screen. They kill the post time.
I would say it isn't as worth it as what people say. First thing most people do after converting their filesystem is run quadrant. It's possible that improved quadrant scores don't translate to real world performance though.
Even worse, running quadrant actually engages the placebo effect so you walk in with a more positive impression. Meanwhile, I don't recall ever seeing anyone from the EXT4/EXT2 i9000 community running blind tests, and neither development community has actually shown any evidence formal testing has been performed. All the arguments seem to be based around quadrant and PC testing. If methods like this were applied to clinical testing, every drug would pass
Honestly, give both a try, but do it blindly.
Why Quadrant may be wrong
This is just a bit of background why Quadrant's scores may not reflect real life performance. Until we check the actual ratio's of Quadrant, and compare with actual usage ratio's though, we can't identify how "real" it's scores are.
Consider a benchmark which produces 1 final score. It may be calculated by:
[MAX TIME - Time to read 1000mb] + [Max time - time to write 1000MB]. In this case, both scores contribute to 50% of the final score, which can be worth 2x MAX Time.
Scenario 1: Time to read/write is both the same
Scenario 2: Read time is 1% shorter than Scenario 1, but write time is 1% longer. Both will have the same score in Quadrant..
Scenario 3: Read time is 5% longer than Scenario 1, but write time is 50% shorter. Scenario 3 will get the best score
Which one is ACTUALLY faster though. The benchmark-toting individuals will claim Scenario 3 is faster, because of the score. HOWEVER, that may be incorrect. Consider the following:
If a user reads 100x more data than they write:
1) Clearly, faster read scores are more important.
2) The BEST filesystem will be Scenario 2, despite being equal last.
3) Scenario 1 will be mid place
4) The scenario with the best score, will actually have the WORST performance.
5) A drop in 1% read performance would need a HUGE increase in write performance to actually be faster.
Until we have an idea of how accurate Quadrant REALLY is, run your own tests, and do so without knowing which filesystem is running. High quadrant scores may boost your e-penis size, but as you can see, it is theoretically possible for the scores which are produced to score slower performing filesystems more highly than faster ones. Disappointingly though, a decreasing number of users/developers at XDA these days are actually interested in the truth, and simply in not being wrong.
Even worse, the community for some reason seems VERY anti-RFS, and wont give it a chance regardless. It might be a LOT better than it used to be. Either way, it seems to be good enough for me.
Ignore the theatrics and run a blind test. That's the only way to determine what is ACTUALLY faster.
monkeytennis said:
Hi, so after cm rooting i noticed there is also an ext4 upgrade...is this worth it and will I have data lose during the change? Im on 2.3.3 and am wondering if it is really worth it! Ed
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I guess you mean CF root right? Will just answer the data loose question. No you shouldnt. But do a backup before. Its fast and easy (if you are on CF root that is)
If its worth depends on you? You experience any lag on rfs? Phone slow?
ramrod54 said:
It may have some advantages but as for what I'm not sure but as for nay major advantages I would say no. I'm still using EXT2 and my benchmarkes are still 1900+. I've tried almost all the other lagfixes and found no real advantage. The only thing I hate about custom kernels with lagfix is the secondary samsung splash screens and custom splash screen. They kill the post time.
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@ramrod54 , where did you get ext2 support on JVK? And what the?
What samsung splash screens and custom splash? What rom and kernel are you on? And what lagfixes? And we both know quadrant score doesnt matter does it ?
Yes, it's worth it. Some things (Android Market, Gmail) works really MUCH faster then on rfs.
Unrealwolf said:
Yes, it's worth it. Some things (Android Market, Gmail) works really MUCH faster then on rfs.
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Hrm, I've never noticed a difference. Market is slow on any room, hell market.android.com is slow too. Gmail always worked fast for me, on any rom.
Personally, I don't see or feel the point in using anything but rfs, but I suppose if someone has half a bazillion apps installed, then maybe an alternative filesystem might be better.
I say try it. If you notice a difference, good for you. If you don't, then stick with rfs.
What about battery performance ? from what I have read, battery performance is also better with RFS.
I always use ex4, its not as needed now on gingerbread but I just prefer the file system...it is better than RFS...but RFS has improved a great deal so you may not noticed that much difference, the rom may become a little smoother..You wont get data lose because of ex4, maybe the way the kernel is built...dont forget that 2.3.3 gingerbread is still beta and without the source code for the kernel you cant expect great things yet, although chainfire has done some amazing work and now we can change the file system using his app....works really well.
Also regarding battery, the difference in performance is such a small margin that its not even an issue.
What alot of people aren't aware of is that the Nexus S for example uses ex4 file system as default straight out of the box
Its not just a lagfix for the galaxy s, its a very good file system too...
Just a side note on Quadrant, ex4, ex2 will trick the app...if you buy the pro version, you will see how much the file system stretches on the bar...Quadrant is more for fun....or HTC
Think it´s worth cause rfs slow down your system after a while