Database Develop

How bad is overcharging?

Exactly how much worse would my battery get if I keep it plugged in the whole night(6~8hours)?
I tried to use my phone where I'll have it fully charged when I go to sleep so I plug it out. But sometimes my battery is at about 30% so I just charge it overnight.
How bad is this? Should I stop doing this?
Sent from my phone

the charging system WONT overcharge your battery.
it charges to 100%
turns off lets the phone use battery power to 95%
then charges again.
there is NO PHONE, NO CHARGER that would over charge its battery, that would just be self destruction.

Sweet, always wondered about that
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

:
Trusselo said:
the charging system WONT overcharge your battery.
it charges to 100%
turns off lets the phone use battery power to 95%
then charges again.
there is NO PHONE, NO CHARGER that would over charge its battery, that would just be self destruction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? So it doesn't matter?
Anyone thanks
Sent from my phone

While it is impossible to overcharge your batter...not even sure what that means but the battery can not hold more charge then it is made to hold.
The only downside to leaving the phone on the charger overnight is that it will over time degrade the capacity of the battery. The way most modern phone batteries function they gradually loose capacity over time. This lose of capacity is accelerated the when the battery is at a greater charge level.

crystalhand said:
While it is impossible to overcharge your batter...not even sure what that means but the battery can not hold more charge then it is made to hold.
The only downside to leaving the phone on the charger overnight is that it will over time degrade the capacity of the battery. The way most modern phone batteries function they gradually loose capacity over time. This lose of capacity is accelerated the when the battery is at a greater charge level.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm sorry..
My overcharging meant that I charge it for a long time.... sorry about that
Sent from my phone

Like Trusselo said, you can't overcharge it. There's a smart charger built in, that charges full and drops it back to extend battery life.
If you watch the supply with an ammeter, you'll see the current slowly decrease as it gets closer to full. Then when the "Battery is Full" notification appears, the current will immediately drop to 0 indicating that the charger has completed and it's running on battery. At that point it resets the stats to 100%. After it consumes about 5% (actually something like 4100mV) it will switch back to external power and only monitor the battery.

Oh strange. Nexus one does it different. When fully charged it runs off the AC current if still plugged in and battery remains charged

CuriousTech said:
Like Trusselo said, you can't overcharge it. There's a smart charger built in, that charges full and drops it back to extend battery life.
If you watch the supply with an ammeter, you'll see the current slowly decrease as it gets closer to full. Then when the "Battery is Full" notification appears, the current will immediately drop to 0 indicating that the charger has completed and it's running on battery. At that point it resets the stats to 100%. After it consumes about 5% (actually something like 4100mV) it will switch back to external power and only monitor the battery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So conclusion is
Charging it overnight will decrease my battery life so I shouldn't do it?
Sent from my phone

syl0n said:
Oh strange. Nexus one does it different. When fully charged it runs off the AC current if still plugged in and battery remains charged
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting since that would be bad for the battery. What are your methods for determining this?

bluemoon1221 said:
So conclusion is
Charging it overnight will decrease my battery life so I shouldn't do it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. It's not charging overnight. The phone stops charging when it's full.
Sigh...
To get a better understanding of why your phone will never overcharge the battery go to youtube and type in "overcharging li-ion" or better "overcharging lipo" for some entertaining videos.

CuriousTech said:
No. It's not charging overnight. The phone stops charging when it's full.
Sigh...
To get a better understanding of why your phone will never overcharge the battery go to youtube and type in "overcharging li-ion" or better "overcharging lipo" for some entertaining videos.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what I meant.... I'm saying will keeping it plugged in for 7 hours decrease my battery performance? .......
Sent from my phone

Okay then. I know these are lead, mercury and cadmium free but it might be too late.
You should do what gives you peace of mind, and be sure to read and follow all safety precautions for the products you own.

bluemoon1221 said:
That's what I meant.... I'm saying will keeping it plugged in for 7 hours decrease my battery performance? .......
Sent from my phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
everyone is trying to tell you NO!!
keeping it charging over night will do NO dammage and will not hurt performance.

I've always wondered about this.. thanks!
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA Premium App

Trusselo said:
NO!!!!!!!!!!!!
everyone is trying to tell you NO!!
keeping it charging over night will do NO dammage and will not hurt performance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Up in one of the reply by crystalhand
He said that it will degrade the capacity of the battery.??
Am I interpreting this the wrong way? Or is he wrong?
Sent from my phone

Charging Problem

Sometimes if I attempt to charge when the battery is over 90% capacity, it doesn't. It keeps depleting down to 89%, and then it will start charging up to 100 again. I'm just going to go ahead and assume this is a hardware issue since it's happened to me in CM7 & MIUI, but is it common? Is there a known fix for it? I'd really like to avoid shipping my phone to HTC.

this is built into the battery driver code to do this. if you charge to full, then unplug, use 5% and try to charge back up to 100%, it wont let you do it. you must drain it to below 90%, then it will allow you to charge back up to 100%.
its just the way the ds2784 fuel gauge chip and driver are designed, no worries. also the n1 and desire both use this same chip and driver etc.

Why would it be designed to do this?
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

Because it's better for the life of the battery...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA Premium App

[Q] lengthen battery condition by limit charge to 90%

keeping battery charge levels between 20-80% will allow your battery to maintain its maximum capacity.
drain the battery to 0% and you might find it dies just that little bit quicker the next day.
likewise, you know when charging the progress slows down around 90-100%? - that's the battery inefficiency around the max mark; this is damaging the battery too.
so, is there an app out there that will stop charging the battery when we get to 90%?
tasker can recognise the battery level but it has no action to stop the charging so presume ably its too low level. its also not available in the secure settings add on.

Do you have any links to back up these claims?
Using GT-I9000 my sent Tapatalk 2 from.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries/

Some kernels have these options. Battery life extender, where you can change the maximum charging level. I would guess though that by the time you're really affecting your battery life it will be time to upgrade anyway!

Some kernels have these options. Battery life extender, where you can change the maximum charging level. I would guess though that by the time you're really affecting your battery life it will be time to upgrade anyway!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I'll look into that. I'd probably leave it at 90% or 95% but 80% is the value I heard. Personnally I find charge doesn't really slow down until 98%.
Mugen batteries can be upto $100 each so I think it's worth protecting the investment and Lithium batteries are the same technology in the brand new Galaxy3 or iPhone4s than it is in a GalaxyS1 etc. So that's my motive.

I experience this too! when my phone are only charged at 90 percent it last more longer !

Battery calibrate.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app

vinogradska5a said:
Battery calibrate.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does calibration really needa 0-100. 100-0 then charge again from 0-100 (is the phone needs to ne off while charging?)
Sent from my HTC Sensation XE with Beats Audio Z715e using xda app-developers app

Here's a technical explanation for why this kind of app needs to exist (and why I was Googling this charge-limiting idea tonight to find this thread):
jago25_98 brushed the surface of it in an earlier post, but was blown off. He's dead-on. The top 90-100% of a battery's capacity is very slightly damaging to the battery, which likes to stay in the 3.7-4.0V range (about 30% to 90%). 4.0v to 4.1v is about 90 to 100%, and 4.1v to 4.2v is "you can cram in about 5% more at your own risk" territory. The charge lingers around the 100% mark to cram more power in without exceeding 4.2v. This is why devices are shipped half-charged, not full-charged: the batteries are manufactured at a stable mid-range voltage and charge level. Then, they're tested and returned to that half-charged state for storage (!) and shipping. They like to stay in the middle, not the extreme ends (and definitely not fully discharged).
Charge algorithms are designed solely with capacity in mind, because not much care is put into "how long" something will last. They'd much rather abuse the battery and have the battery (or the device) replaced, than to put a larger battery in to make up for lost capacity by charging only to 80%.
For some of us, we understand that, and we'd like to limit our battery charge so the life of the battery (the capacity it will hold over time) will stand up to the test of time. If treated right, these batteries could last over 10 years. Charging to 100% each day and staying there all night (most of the time, it charges within an hour, leaving it sitting about a quarter of its life at a full charge) is pretty destructive, compared to using an app that caps it at 80% each night, saving the full cycles for monthly battery-meter refreshes.
If it can be done, I'd like to know... I might just dust off my SDK and crack open a "how-to" book to get started. About time I had a good app idea...
Here's some recent media that's brought this issue back to be bumped: http://gizmodo.com/you-should-try-to-keep-it-north-of-50-percent-as-much-619313207

Is that extender in NStools?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using xda app-developers app

If I remember correctly Mackay kernel - at least up to 4.3 Mackay - has allowed BLX. I think Semaphore allowed this as well in the manager app.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

Soryuu said:
If I remember correctly Mackay kernel - at least up to 4.3 Mackay - has allowed BLX. I think Semaphore allowed this as well in the manager app.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I'm using Mackay Kernel+Rom ( 4.4.2 KK ) and you can find the BLX (battery life extender) in Mackay Settings tab.

Sorry for digging up this long submerged thread.
I'm quite interested in the idea of getting my phone to charge between 40-80% while I plug in my phone overnight. I wish to maximise the longevity of the battery on my phone. I'm thinking about using the app "Tasker" together with a Wifi controlled power switch. Has anyone done that?
(PS. I don't use a Galaxy S I9000 phone. Just searched and found this randomly)

FalconFour said:
Here's a technical explanation for why this kind of app needs to exist (and why I was Googling this charge-limiting idea tonight to find this thread):
jago25_98 brushed the surface of it in an earlier post, but was blown off. He's dead-on. The top 90-100% of a battery's capacity is very slightly damaging to the battery, which likes to stay in the 3.7-4.0V range (about 30% to 90%). 4.0v to 4.1v is about 90 to 100%, and 4.1v to 4.2v is "you can cram in about 5% more at your own risk" territory. The charge lingers around the 100% mark to cram more power in without exceeding 4.2v. This is why devices are shipped half-charged, not full-charged: the batteries are manufactured at a stable mid-range voltage and charge level. Then, they're tested and returned to that half-charged state for storage (!) and shipping. They like to stay in the middle, not the extreme ends (and definitely not fully discharged).
Charge algorithms are designed solely with capacity in mind, because not much care is put into "how long" something will last. They'd much rather abuse the battery and have the battery (or the device) replaced, than to put a larger battery in to make up for lost capacity by charging only to 80%.
For some of us, we understand that, and we'd like to limit our battery charge so the life of the battery (the capacity it will hold over time) will stand up to the test of time. If treated right, these batteries could last over 10 years. Charging to 100% each day and staying there all night (most of the time, it charges within an hour, leaving it sitting about a quarter of its life at a full charge) is pretty destructive, compared to using an app that caps it at 80% each night, saving the full cycles for monthly battery-meter refreshes.
If it can be done, I'd like to know... I might just dust off my SDK and crack open a "how-to" book to get started. About time I had a good app idea...
Here's some recent media that's brought this issue back to be bumped: http://gizmodo.com/you-should-try-to-keep-it-north-of-50-percent-as-much-619313207
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am thinking, if Android app can't limit battery charging level, at least there should be an app that shows some sort of notifications when charging has reached a certain level set by users.

There is an app for it. Battery Charge Limit.
jago25_98 said:
keeping battery charge levels between 20-80% will allow your battery to maintain its maximum capacity.
drain the battery to 0% and you might find it dies just that little bit quicker the next day.
likewise, you know when charging the progress slows down around 90-100%? - that's the battery inefficiency around the max mark; this is damaging the battery too.
so, is there an app out there that will stop charging the battery when we get to 90%?
tasker can recognise the battery level but it has no action to stop the charging so presume ably its too low level. its also not available in the secure settings add on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get this app https://forum.xda-developers.com/android/apps-games/root-battery-charge-limit-t3557002 here. It also has tasker integration

inaccurate battery guage causes prematuree low battery shutoff

I have noticed an issue that is really reducing the battery life on android by around 1 hour.
On android it (official cyanogenmod build) it views the battery as 1500mAh and and at 0% it shuts off (3.51V on the battery)
buy after the shutdown, I can reboot into webOS and the tablet will be usable for about an extra 1.3 hours (worth of web browsing) longer and even then, it shuts off at 3.428V (well before a 3.7V cells voltage dropoff curve
For most li-ion batteries that are designed to supply 3.7V, the protection circuit cutoff is 2.7V and the phone own protection kicks in at 3-3.2V depending on the device (and some phones with removable batteries will even go down to 2.9V)
So overall, I would like to know is there a way to change the device shutdown in android from 3.51V to 3.428 that way it will match the shutoff of webos? That change would easily add an extra hour or so of of use between charges.

Here's my device running JB.
Sent from my cm_tenderloin using xda app-developers app

blmvxer said:
Here's my device running JB.
Sent from my cm_tenderloin using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is accurate within it's defined limits but the problem is the defined limits.
Android shuts down at 3.51 volts while webos shuts down at 3.428 volts, and that cutoff difference comes out to a little over an hour of battery life that you are not getting if you use android VS webOS

[Q] Battery Memory

So, I'm nervous about the fact that I can't replace the battery on my ONE. So far every night I've been staying up late until the phone dies, then plugging it in, waiting til the light stops flashing, then powering it up to charge while on overnight.
Problem is, this phone has awesome battery life. Right now at 10.30pm, I'm sitting at 41%, and debating just leaving it unplugged all night.
So what's the deal with memory on these batteries? How much, say over a 2 yr span, will charging a non-drained battery shorten its lifespan or lessen its capacity?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app

MadDogMaddux said:
So what's the deal with memory on these batteries? How much, say over a 2 yr span, will charging a non-drained battery shorten its lifespan or lessen its capacity?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lithium ion batteries are awesome. They are lighter, smaller and do not suffer from "memory effect."
Do not drain then fully recharge this phone on a regular basis. That will accelerate capacitance loss. Keep it charged as much as possible, avoid fast charging, try to use your PC to charge it overnight. Do not leave it charging for too long (i.e. days on end). Though on board computers can refuse charging, it is best to stay on the safe side.
2 years, you will definitely notice a decrease in battery life, but by the time it becomes intolerable, you will have upgraded. I can almost guarantee that.
EDIT: Please add to/refute any statements I made if you have greater knowledge on this subject, people.

Thanks! Can you explain why using mr PC to charge is better?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app

MadDogMaddux said:
Thanks! Can you explain why using mr PC to charge is better?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Because it's a slower charge at a lower amp rating prolongs battery life by not boiling the cells
Sent from my HTCONE using xda premium

customhdrider said:
Because it's a slower charge at a lower amp rating prolongs battery life by not boiling the cells
Sent from my HTCONE using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Gottit. Thanks!

No problem,glad I could shed some light on the subject
Sent from my HTCONE using xda premium

MadDogMaddux said:
So, I'm nervous about the fact that I can't replace the battery on my ONE. So far every night I've been staying up late until the phone dies, then plugging it in, waiting til the light stops flashing, then powering it up to charge while on overnight.
Problem is, this phone has awesome battery life. Right now at 10.30pm, I'm sitting at 41%, and debating just leaving it unplugged all night.
So what's the deal with memory on these batteries? How much, say over a 2 yr span, will charging a non-drained battery shorten its lifespan or lessen its capacity?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As was previously noted, what you're doing is actually the worst possible thing you can do to a lithium ion battery. In general, best practice is to keep your battery somewhere between 10%-95% charge whenever possible. Once a month, you should "cycle" your battery under 10% (but not fully drained) to keep everything in peak condition. If you're ever not going to use the phone for any length of time, best practice is to drain to 40% and store in a cool, dark area.
When you first get a new device, you do want to condition it by doing three to five (varies on the device) full charge/discharge cycles, but after that, once a month with a conditioning cycle will take care of things for you. And again, as was previously noted, it's not a great idea to leave your phone charging overnight because you can't always depend on the battery controller chip.
These newer cells are all rated to relatively high cycle lifetimes, so I wouldn't worry overmuch. At that point, capacity is supposed to start degrading, although naturally it's going to happen a bit earlier for any number of reasons. I'd be much more worried about avoiding heat though than overcharge.

I'm assuming charging it slowly would keep it slightly cooler than a wall socket and closer to room temp, the better.
There is probably some other reason, but I'm not the person to ask. you can do some independent research. :good:
Just charge your phone when it needs it and don't when it doesn't. Do that and you'll be good until you upgrade no problem.
EDIT: Oh, beat me to it... haha
EDIT: Also, does the 40% apply to phones? Mobile devices never really turn off, they just go into deep sleep, I'm told. I was going to say that too, but then I remembered this. Does the 40% rule apply to non-removable batteries?

sauprankul said:
I'm assuming charging it slowly would keep it slightly cooler than a wall socket and closer to room temp, the better.
There is probably some other reason, but I'm not the person to ask. you can do some independent research. :good:
Just charge your phone when it needs it and don't when it doesn't. Do that and you'll be good until you upgrade no problem.
EDIT: Oh, beat me to it... haha
EDIT: Also, does the 40% apply to phones? Mobile devices never really turn off, they just go into deep sleep, I'm told. I was going to say that too, but then I remembered this. Does the 40% rule apply to non-removable batteries?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a question of how much voltage you're chucking into the battery. If you use a low-voltage wall adapter it'll be the same as if you were charging from your PC.
The 40% rule applies to any battery, and they'll all discharge over time anyway (connected or no). If you shut your phone off, everything powers down except (if memory serves) what's necessary to run the internal clock. The impact that has should be pretty minimal (unless you're trying to bury your One for a thousand years, in which case...can't help you there).

Rirere said:
It's a question of how much voltage you're chucking into the battery. If you use a low-voltage wall adapter it'll be the same as if you were charging from your PC.
(unless you're trying to bury your One for a thousand years, in which case...can't help you there).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who would buy a low voltage wall adapter?
And yes, I would like to bury my One safely for a thousand years, so when it is found by the generation of humadroids, they will see it and be amazed that a civilization so primitive could achieve such technological mastery.

sauprankul said:
Who would buy a low voltage wall adapter?
And yes, I would like to bury my One safely for a thousand years, so when it is found by the generation of humadroids, they will see it and be amazed that a civilization so primitive could achieve such technological mastery.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know that I bought any, but I have a few lying around from yesteryear's gadgetry.
And at that point, why not launch it into space instead, a la HTC Nexus One?

So I use my phone as my alarm clock and also run the Relax and Sleep app all night. Otherwise I'd just plug it into my lappy throughout the day and not worry about it.
But that raises another question: running the phone overnight while charging it at the same time. Bad juju?
I plugged into my lappy last night around midnight, woke up this morning and had about 95% charge, rather than the usual 100%. I'm assuming this is the result of power output for Relax and Sleep cutting int power input from charging.
I've also been in the habit of leaving my EVO 4G plugged in while tethering. I assume this is also a bad plan?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app

sauprankul said:
Lithium ion batteries are awesome. They are lighter, smaller and do not suffer from "memory effect."
Do not drain then fully recharge this phone on a regular basis. That will accelerate capacitance loss. Keep it charged as much as possible, avoid fast charging, try to use your PC to charge it overnight. Do not leave it charging for too long (i.e. days on end). Though on board computers can refuse charging, it is best to stay on the safe side.
2 years, you will definitely notice a decrease in battery life, but by the time it becomes intolerable, you will have upgraded. I can almost guarantee that.
EDIT: Please add to/refute any statements I made if you have greater knowledge on this subject, people.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
MOST of this advice is 100% true.
The only part that is not correct information is the advice to not let it die. It is perfectly OK to do this as long as you don't deep discharge the battery... Example like let it die then not charge it for like a week or something.
The science behind this is the fact that lithium ion batteries actually have a nominal voltage operating range which is like 3.2 - 4.3 volts or something like that. Your device is designed to shut itself down when it gets to about 3.5... This is done to protect the battery from deep discharge cycles.
Letting it die is perfectly alright. Just make sure you charge it soon after.
Also, you don't need to use your PC to charge it. That is in no way necessary. Your device came with a wall charger for a reason...
There are safety features built into the kernel and cable to keep you from damaging the device during charge. Use the wall.. It is perfectly safe and faster / more practical.

MadDogMaddux said:
So I use my phone as my alarm clock and also run the Relax and Sleep app all night. Otherwise I'd just plug it into my lappy throughout the day and not worry about it.
But that raises another question: running the phone overnight while charging it at the same time. Bad juju?
I plugged into my lappy last night around midnight, woke up this morning and had about 95% charge, rather than the usual 100%. I'm assuming this is the result of power output for Relax and Sleep cutting int power input from charging.
I've also been in the habit of leaving my EVO 4G plugged in while tethering. I assume this is also a bad plan?
Sent from my HTCONE using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your battery will automatically cycle between 95%-99.9999% to prevent overcharge, so you're fine on this front. You probably just caught it on the low end of the cycle.
The issue with charging + tethering is that a phone draws more power when plugged in (ramping up processor, etc.), and tethering eats a lot of power. More importantly, both charging the battery and running the antennas for tethering generate a lot of heat. So long as you watch your battery temp (most good tethering apps will toss in a temperature gauge, although if you're using stock you'll need another solution), you should be fine, but heat is one of the fastest ways to kill a Li-ion battery.
Admiral Sir Manley Power said:
MOST of this advice is 100% true.
The only part that is not correct information is the advice to not let it die. It is perfectly OK to do this as long as you don't deep discharge the battery... Example like let it die then not charge it for like a week or something.
The science behind this is the fact that lithium ion batteries actually have a nominal voltage operating range which is like 3.2 - 4.3 volts or something like that. Your device is designed to shut itself down when it gets to about 3.5... This is done to protect the battery from deep discharge cycles.
Letting it die is perfectly alright. Just make sure you charge it soon after.
Also, you don't need to use your PC to charge it. That is in no way necessary. Your device came with a wall charger for a reason...
There are safety features built into the kernel and cable to keep you from damaging the device during charge. Use the wall.. It is perfectly safe and faster / more practical.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Although a full normal discharge (phone powering off) won't kill your battery in one go, it's a deeper discharge than I would recommend on a regular basis. Things are built with margins of safety, but I don't like playing on the edge when I can avoid it. The difference between 10%-15% isn't too much either when it comes to my use-case either, so I'm content to bounce between 20/30-95 most of the time.

Rirere said:
Your battery will automatically cycle between 95%-99.9999% to prevent overcharge, so you're fine on this front. You probably just caught it on the low end of the cycle.
The issue with charging + tethering is that a phone draws more power when plugged in (ramping up processor, etc.), and tethering eats a lot of power. More importantly, both charging the battery and running the antennas for tethering generate a lot of heat. So long as you watch your battery temp (most good tethering apps will toss in a temperature gauge, although if you're using stock you'll need another solution), you should be fine, but heat is one of the fastest ways to kill a Li-ion battery.
Although a full normal discharge (phone powering off) won't kill your battery in one go, it's a deeper discharge than I would recommend on a regular basis. Things are built with margins of safety, but I don't like playing on the edge when I can avoid it. The difference between 10%-15% isn't too much either when it comes to my use-case either, so I'm content to bounce between 20/30-95 most of the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is certainly a good point as well. No need to play on the edge of the cliffs. lol
You see my point tho
About safety margins