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I have an indian galaxy s.
I got the device 2 days ago.
THE PHONE ROCKS AND IS AMAZINGLY FAST!!!
I love every aspect of it and now i want to root it.
The device is not simlocked, i bought it outright.
It is a non operator specific device.
My operator is vodafone india.
They provide 2.75G services based on 900 MHz and 1800 MHz digital GSM technology.
I have the folln. in *#1234#
PDA:I9000DDJF3
Phone:I9000DDJF3
CSC:I9000DDJF3
I want to know what method I can use to root the device because I read someone saying that you needed to be on some dutch fw to root the device.(If not can i root it like h tt p:// forum. xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t= 728754
Also I'd like to know whether I can install any of the custom roms like pauls modaco r2.
I dont mind using a prebaked ROM.
Is it possible to go to the I9000XWJFF or the I9000XWJG1 or will I have to stay on the I9000DDJF3?
Also on [htt p://samsung-firmware. webs. com /WEBPROTECT-samsungi9000.htm] samsung roms, there is no I9000DDJF3 ROM. So I don't think I can go back to I9000DDJF3 if I muck up anywhere.
Thanks a million in advance.
Sorry for the spaces in the urls.
Code:
1. To prevent spam to the forums, new users are not permitted to post outside links in their messages. All new user accounts will be verified by moderators before this restriction is removed.
Please forgive my newbishness as this is my first samsung android device and I am loving it all the way.
aditya_t90 said:
I have an indian galaxy s.
I got the device 2 days ago.
THE PHONE ROCKS AND IS AMAZINGLY FAST!!!
I love every aspect of it and now i want to root it.
The device is not simlocked, i bought it outright.
It is a non operator specific device.
My operator is vodafone india.
They provide 2.75G services based on 900 MHz and 1800 MHz digital GSM technology.
I have the folln. in *#1234#
PDA:I9000DDJF3
Phone:I9000DDJF3
CSC:I9000DDJF3
I want to know what method I can use to root the device because I read someone saying that you needed to be on some dutch fw to root the device.(If not can i root it like h tt p:// forum. xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t= 728754
Also I'd like to know whether I can install any of the custom roms like pauls modaco r2.
I dont mind using a prebaked ROM.
Is it possible to go to the I9000XWJFF or the I9000XWJG1 or will I have to stay on the I9000DDJF3?
Also on [htt p://samsung-firmware. webs. com /WEBPROTECT-samsungi9000.htm] samsung roms, there is no I9000DDJF3 ROM. So I don't think I can go back to I9000DDJF3 if I muck up anywhere.
Thanks a million in advance.
Sorry for the spaces in the urls.
Code:
1. To prevent spam to the forums, new users are not permitted to post outside links in their messages. All new user accounts will be verified by moderators before this restriction is removed.
Please forgive my newbishness as this is my first samsung android device and I am loving it all the way.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey!
You don't need any Dutch FW or anything. Just follow instructions given here and you're sorted.
You can upgrade to any firmware you want. Our (I'm from India too) stock firmware isn't available unfortunately. Personally, I'd go with JG5. Totally loving the firmware! Though you can flash to Paul's r2. You'll have to flash JG1 first and use the update over that. Also, you'd be automatically rooted if you flashed the r2.
It's pretty difficult to brick your phone honestly. If a flash doesn't work out right you can almost always just enter the download mode and re-flash. I've had issues myself, but nothing to fret about really.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=728754
Follow this tutorial! it will work for your firmware and software!
varunrai said:
Hey!
You don't need any Dutch FW or anything. Just follow here and you're sorted.
You can upgrade to any firmware you want. Our (I'm from India too) stock firmware isn't available unfortunately. Personally, I'd go with JG5. Totally loving the firmware! Though you can flash to Paul's r2. You'll have to flash JG1 first and use the update over that. Also, you'd be automatically rooted if you flashed the r2.
It's pretty difficult to brick your phone honestly. If a flash doesn't work out right you can almost always just enter the download mode and re-flash. I've had issues myself, but nothing to fret about really.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot. Really good to know there are other Indian samsung Galaxy S users here on xda. I will root by the method you gave me and I will try the jg5 after a few days.
Btw what part of India are from?
Mumbai here
Thanks again
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
I'm an Indian user too (Bangalore). Bought my SGS almost 2 weeks ago. Was VERY annoyed with the stock firmware (DDJF3). The black-outs really got on my nerve. Will you not be irritated if your 30k phone hangs up on you for several seconds (to open the dialer app so you can type the number down) right when the pretty girl you're talking to offers to give you her phone number, and you have to ask her to wait 5 seconds to write it down?! Of course, the black-outs aren't there all the time. Usually only when you use the phone after a long gap (at least in my case). But it's still VERY annoying. That's NOT what I paid 30k for!
So yeah, finally flashed to JG5 a few days ago. Very happy with it. Although I can still see the black screens, it's always for ~1 second max and it only happens with some apps. Dialer and Contacts don't lag at all anymore. I really think you're gonna love your phone even more if you upgrade your firmware to JG5
Use mimocans lagfix from the sticky if you have a micro sd and way the lag gone.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Thank a ton everyone
Darkstriker
ed10000
BackfireNL
varunrai
I will try all this tonight.
Mods can close the thread if they want to.
Thanks everyone again.
I am also from India (Delhi), and currently running rooted JG5 firmware with the sdcard lag fix
I am Hyderabad & i am on jg5 rooted with sd lag fix. Great phone now.
Only thing i am missing after sd card fix is the default ringtones & notifications. Othrwise loving it.
I have recovered from a bricked state about 10 days ago so follow the steps correctly.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
ed10000 said:
I'm an Indian user too (Bangalore). Bought my SGS almost 2 weeks ago. Was VERY annoyed with the stock firmware (DDJF3). The black-outs really got on my nerve. Will you not be irritated if your 30k phone hangs up on you for several seconds (to open the dialer app so you can type the number down) right when the pretty girl you're talking to offers to give you her phone number, and you have to ask her to wait 5 seconds to write it down?! Of course, the black-outs aren't there all the time. Usually only when you use the phone after a long gap (at least in my case). But it's still VERY annoying. That's NOT what I paid 30k for!
So yeah, finally flashed to JG5 a few days ago. Very happy with it. Although I can still see the black screens, it's always for ~1 second max and it only happens with some apps. Dialer and Contacts don't lag at all anymore. I really think you're gonna love your phone even more if you upgrade your firmware to JG5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi ed10000 ...i bought galaxy s two days back , it has i9000ddjf3 firmware n facing d same issue of black screen for 5-10 sec, while launching contact , phone call or other apps... i want to flash it with JG5 , would u plz tell me full version of JG5(i9000_ _ JG5) and you used and d link where from u downloaded this firmware , you flashed it with all three file (PDA , Phone , CSC ) or only with PDA . i m using Airtel connection ...may i get any problem regarding connectivity after flashing ?
Thanks a lot in advance for your reply n help ..
Hey guys got my galaxy s from mumbai (irla, andheri). Using from past 2 weeks and this phone rocks.
Guys dont go with jg5, iam on jm2 and it rocks. Rooted with update.zip method and used root explorer to remove unwanted apps and media. This baby rocks. Loving the built in task manager and asphalt 5 is cool.
I have tried samset custom rom when i was on jg5 but i didnt get any performance boost. Iam really happy with the jm2 and waiting for the promised froyo update in the month of august or september.
Abhaysharma said:
Hi ed10000 ...i bought galaxy s two days back , it has i9000ddjf3 firmware n facing d same issue of black screen for 5-10 sec, while launching contact , phone call or other apps... i want to flash it with JG5 , would u plz tell me full version of JG5(i9000_ _ JG5) and you used and d link where from u downloaded this firmware , you flashed it with all three file (PDA , Phone , CSC ) or only with PDA . i m using Airtel connection ...may i get any problem regarding connectivity after flashing ?
Thanks a lot in advance for your reply n help ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
go here
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=724251Z
Abhaysharma said:
Hi ed10000 ...i bought galaxy s two days back , it has i9000ddjf3 firmware n facing d same issue of black screen for 5-10 sec, while launching contact , phone call or other apps... i want to flash it with JG5 , would u plz tell me full version of JG5(i9000_ _ JG5) and you used and d link where from u downloaded this firmware , you flashed it with all three file (PDA , Phone , CSC ) or only with PDA . i m using Airtel connection ...may i get any problem regarding connectivity after flashing ?
Thanks a lot in advance for your reply n help ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi Abhay,
It is I9000XWJG5. You can download it here. Use the 512 pit which can be found here. I used all 3 files to flash (PDA = CODE, PHONE = MODEM, CSC = CSC). I did it with the re-partition option enabled. I'm using Airtel too, and before flashing the new firmware, I used an app called "APN Backup & Restore" which can be found on the Market to backup my APN settings. Then after flashing JG5, install the same app again and restore the settings. No issues regarding connectivity after that .
Also, I've seen many people report lag in JM2, so I'm still on JG5 and will probably use the same until the next official firmware release. It's just stable and works the way one would expect it to.
BTW, a simple but a very effective tip - once you open the Phone app or the Contacts app, don't use the back button to close it. Use the Home button. I've found that it opens in an instant the next time you use it if you follow this. Same applies for all apps (like Messaging, Music Player etc.).
Good luck! Let us know how it goes
Great to see i9000 gaining ground @ localhost
I am due to buy my i9000 this weekend - hxxp://bit.ly/why-i9000
)
I bought a Galaxy S last saturday. I tried the JP1 and JP2 Froyo builds but flashed back to JM2 as it was more stabler.
vinodis said:
I bought a Galaxy S last saturday.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How much you paid for the device? best I could get was INR 27,500 in New Delhi
28K in Bangalore.
Sorry, this might seem offtopic - Chroma Retail chain users can get an additional discount from hxxp://bit.ly/b3XzIH
I bought my SGS 2 weeks back and OMFG it rocks. I can usually be found rocking it in the office elevator and when people ask about it I act all annoyed
Anyway, I rooted the phone and have taken a Titanium backup. I plan to flash JG5 and do the lagfix, but will Titanium restor ALL my apps and settings? I have spent of a lot of time customizing this baby (I would highly recommend the paid version of LauncherPro Plus) and don't want to lose all that hard work.
Also, once I apply the lagfix, will it be a problem flashing future FW's?
Thanks!
EDIT: Bought it from Mumbai for 28K
EDIT2: Is it possible to partition my sd card from within my phone? My linux does not recognize my laptop's card reader and I don't know of any way in Windows7
Yes. It is possible to partition without resorting to Computer. Search the internet for 'sdparted'. But that script will not help you create EXT3/EXT4. Works only with EXT2 and FAT32 etc. I guess it may support EXT3/4 partition resize though.
hi to the forum this is my frist post. Just got my brand new sgs out of the box runnig fw 2.2.1 baseband xxjpw and cant seem to root it, all the ways ive tryed to root it have been no good up to now and cant find anything on xxjpw on the net all i can find info on is xxjpx and xxjpy and at a total loss now. I all so whould like to know is which is newer xxjpw are xxjpy and if xxjpy is newer should i flash my sgs. Hope someone can help me as this is doing my head as i rooted and lagfix my old sgs with android 2.1 in seconds...
Wow this is the first time I hear the 2.2.1 firmware is official, because you say you have it on a new Galaxy..
Anyway, on my JPY I used superoneclick and it worked like magic.
Just search this forum for SuperOneClick, and follow the instructions in the author's thread.
I just downloaded program, put my phone in USB debug mode, connected phone, launched SUperOneClick, pressed Root button, and that was about it...
raymond999 said:
hi to the forum this is my frist post. Just got my brand new sgs out of the box runnig fw 2.2.1 baseband xxjpw and cant seem to root it, all the ways ive tryed to root it have been no good up to now and cant find anything on xxjpw on the net all i can find info on is xxjpx and xxjpy and at a total loss now. I all so whould like to know is which is newer xxjpw are xxjpy and if xxjpy is newer should i flash my sgs. Hope someone can help me as this is doing my head as i rooted and lagfix my old sgs with android 2.1 in seconds...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
we would like to see a screenshot if possible please
raymond999 said:
hi to the forum this is my frist post. Just got my brand new sgs out of the box runnig fw 2.2.1 baseband xxjpw and cant seem to root it, all the ways ive tryed to root it have been no good up to now and cant find anything on xxjpw on the net all i can find info on is xxjpx and xxjpy and at a total loss now. I all so whould like to know is which is newer xxjpw are xxjpy and if xxjpy is newer should i flash my sgs. Hope someone can help me as this is doing my head as i rooted and lagfix my old sgs with android 2.1 in seconds...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
XXJPW official?
Try superoneclick ... works fine on XXJPX, XXJPY.
jpw??? 1st time hear bout it. Would like to see the screenshot too!!!! If the phone is already smooth why should u do lag fix? btw please comment bout the performance JPW such battery life! As the phone is a new one, so i think it is an off. FW!
So this means netherlands will get this update soon!!! Yeah!
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
u use odin? try using hardcore's kernel K12A. Flash it with odin, and go into recovery. One of the option is to install superuser (root).
Er, just curious, what's your build prop? Can let us know?
Yep. got my phone today from virgin and I can't root it either!
Just ran benchmark score @ 1232
really? xD the two persons that have the "JPW" only they have writen 1 message........... I think they are trolls, but...
less words and more pics from the JPW!!!!
the people think that we are stupids or something.... A SGS bought new with a 2.2.1 firmware from factory (XXJPW, a firmware that anybody knows)?? WHERE?
sorry ive not replyed but had no interweb, here is a pic of phones screen with firmware info on..
where do you buy it?
can you make a nandroid and share it?
thanks
yes i can confirm jpw 2.2.1 frimware is running around 1050 to 1150 on quadrant standard
wow , this is weird
i bought the phone from virgin mobile uk and as far as making nandroid iam noob but will give it a go if i get some help...
Well, it seems that his not lying... Do you have recovery or download mode ?
what's the product code of xxjpw?
Black-Star said:
Well, it seems that his not lying... Do you have recovery or download mode ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm a screenshot with build XXJPW convinces you ?? editing build.prop is really easy ..
Bandis710 said:
Hmm a screenshot with build XXJPW convinces you ?? editing build.prop is really easy ..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And why would he do that? What would he gain from it again?
nothing ... But it wouldn't be the first post made on the forum that was made just to get a lot of reactions ..
Hi yes it has a recovery mode and download mode. Iam not making this up i just want some help on rooting thats all, i just thought i could get some help on here not plp trying to make out iam lying...
Product code were do would find that on the phone
Hi there if anyone could help me out im trying to locate the stock galaxy s telstra rom i done a back up of mine before i started playing around and some how managed to get a virus on my pc and lost everything including my backup i would really appreciate any support you all have to offer as for my wife wants the standard software back on her handset thanks for your time.
Stock telstra right?
The best place to find australian firmwares, telstra in particular, is whirlpool. XDA seems to ignore us
Go to the whirlpool thread "Stock I9000T Telstra Rom". There are links there from me as well as links to Doc Dan's hosted JH3. I would give a link but... my post count >.>
I highly recommend you use Doc Dan's files! I posted some, asked for feedback and never received it :/ Thats after 50+ downloads too
This is the stock 2.1. Havent seen DVJP8 yet. Coincidentally, does anyone know how to get/create these flashable ROM's? im sure people would like JP8 available for reflash instead of JH3, and samfirmwares doesn't have OUR JP8. Or OUR JH3 even. (samfirmwares.com: ignoring the telstra galaxy S even moreso than XDA developers )
Telstra is 2.2.1 now
Modem it comes with is DVJP9
Recommend it over 2.1 anyday
I recommend following my guide on how to upgrade to a custom rom
Stock is a waste of time
http://www.darkyrom.com/community/index.php?threads/guide-simply-easily-install-darkys-rom.2093/
Matthai said:
Stock telstra right?
The best place to find australian firmwares, telstra in particular, is whirlpool. XDA seems to ignore us
samfirmwares doesn't have OUR JP8. Or OUR JH3 even. (samfirmwares.com: ignoring the telstra galaxy S even moreso than XDA developers )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Network roms are only available if a user saves them and uploads them or at least shares .Most users do not bother so XDA never gets them .
Likewise unless the firmware is available from a user that has downloaded it Samfirmware cannot get a copy .
Both XDA and Samfirmware rely on you the user to supply the base roms they have no secret source of roms .
jje
JJEgan said:
Network roms are only available if a user saves them and uploads them or at least shares .Most users do not bother so XDA never gets them .
Likewise unless the firmware is available from a user that has downloaded it Samfirmware cannot get a copy .
Both XDA and Samfirmware rely on you the user to supply the base roms they have no secret source of roms .
jje
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats fairly understandable
May i ask how this is done? all ive seen is system dumps, which i understand are useless for anything 'cept custom rom development
Either backing up rom through one of the apps available or saving a downloaded rom via Kies .Dont know if the spoof Kies method below still works .
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=11963455
jje
Gday thanks for all your replys I have found a few links at whirlpool forum unfortunately there all no go anymore and I have tried the spoof method with no such luck either the reason I need the original telstra firmware is my touch screen is playing up and I was going to reload the original firmware and see if I can get it fixed under warranty as for its only about 4 months old I have tried other firmware and still have the same problem with the touch screen
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
extremeit79 said:
Gday thanks for all your replys I have found a few links at whirlpool forum unfortunately there all no go anymore and I have tried the spoof method with no such luck either the reason I need the original telstra firmware is my touch screen is playing up and I was going to reload the original firmware and see if I can get it fixed under warranty as for its only about 4 months old I have tried other firmware and still have the same problem with the touch screen
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search for the thread "Stock I9000T Telstra Rom" on whirlpool. It should have posts that are both good. JH3 in zip folder is unpassworded, the .rar has asgardxda as the password as stated in the aussie firmwares thread (it is where i got a copy from). Also im pretty sure doc dans also works, there is a link at the bottom of that thread. I would LOVE to post direct links for you but my post count angers the xda
I certainly know mine (listed under "Orenthi", old screen name i would like to phase out / kill with fire) are still up and running. Over 50 downloads and not one bit of feedback XD. If it is bricking or failing to work i would love to know...
Anyways, i saved a kies downloaded ROM today, telstra JP8. Thanks JJEgan for the assistance in that . Seems right, slighly larger than telstra JH3, has all the files as seen in JH3 and no dbdata so like JH3 it isnt a full ROM (was expected). How would one make this odin flashable by the way? is it as simple as making it .tar.md5 and what application is recommended by xda for this?
edit: scratch that, have uploaded jp8. Tested it on my phone too!
Link can be found on whirlpool thread Samsung GT-I9000 series Aussie Firmwares, p10, 13th post hope it works for everyone else
Oh and apparently xda likes to know bootloader status. it takes the phone from 2e recovery to 3e recovery so ill go out on a limb and say does include bootloaders
Gday mate thanks for the firmware downloaded it this am and installed it straight up via Odin works like a charm 10/10 for your help and support
Sent from my GT-I9000T using XDA App
Hello,
my friend got a phone that at first sight i thought its the galaxy s i9000. but its the korean version of it with integrated dbm antenna.
but the problem he had was, that he tried to flash a gingerbread rom (for i9000) but came to me saying the phone does not boot anymore...
so i wanted to flash the correct firmware.. so i downloaded the latest one from http://m110sroms.info/ ...
but when i start the update with odin.. it stops with a FAIL at the very end of the flashing process.. i tried several times with and without closing Odin and with and without ticking repartition.. but it didnt help..
what is the problem? please help..
i downloaded another firmware but didnt worked either..
does he bricked the phone? is it possible to un-brick it?
please answers.. thanks
I don't know a lot about this, but I do know it's almost impossible to permanently brick your phone. So things could work out just fine . However someone with some more knowledge should help you out, since mine is insufficient. GL though.
i just tried almost every single firmware i found for this device but none of them worked
so please, if anyone does know a solution, feel free to post.
Maybe it's not i9000. There is a difference between models like i9000,i9000B... check it behind battery
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
themate1987 said:
Maybe it's not i9000. There is a difference between models like i9000,i9000B... check it behind battery
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes its not the i9000 i know. its called SHW-M110S. like i said; its the korean version of the galaxy s, which has slightly different hardware.
unbenannt said:
yes its not the i9000 i know. its called SHW-M110S. like i said; its the korean version of the galaxy s, which has slightly different hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know if this helps (I can't read Korean and Chrome didn't translate it)
http://kr.samsungmobile.com/notice/anycallpopup/froyo_up.jsp
I got it from here, the comments at the bottom
http://www.samsunghub.com/2010/11/1...d-s-will-get-android-2-2-froyo-from-tomorrow/
This might be worth a look too if you haven't already seen it
http://www.samsunghub.com/tag/shw-m110s/
There's a link to a FROYO torrent here but I can't get page to display right, plus it's in Korean http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ko&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fmatpclub.com%2Fs%2F%3Fmid%3Dpxeboard31%26page%3D1%26document_srl%3D2429204&anno=2
Got it here
http://www.samsunggalaxysforum.com/samsung-galaxy-s-how-to/all-about-shw-m110s-(korean-version)/
Hope you find something useful in all that
Hi all, have been searching the net and these forums but so far, not come up with a result.
I have a galaxy mini as my spare phone and rooted it when I got it. I then managed to semi brick it and bring it back to life but the only firmware I was able to get on there was the Carphone Warehouse one.
I'm on Three UK and the phone is locked to three. What I would like is to be able to get the official three firmware back on the phone but the only one I found was an old froyo one which didn't work for some reason when I tried flashing with Odin. It got just to the end of the download part but didn't actually flash beyond that point and the phone wouldn't boot etc etc so that's when I resorted to the CPW firmware.
As I am having some issues with the phone, that's why I would like to be able to get it back to completely three firmware as I suspect my problems are down to the wrong one.
Sorry to be long winded and sincere apologies if the answer is already here somewhere but I really cannot find it.
Thank you in advance.
Alison
Have u tried looking in sammobile.com?
Dikirim dari WT19i gue pake xda premium
chepoz said:
Have u tried looking in sammobile.com?
Dikirim dari WT19i gue pake xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have yes. I've looked all over, can't find anything. I did find one for 2.3.4 for three uk but unfortunately when I clicked on the link, the file had been removed. Can't remember if that was a link on SamMobile or another site now though.
Alison
hazi1964 said:
Hi all, have been searching the net and these forums but so far, not come up with a result.
I have a galaxy mini as my spare phone and rooted it when I got it. I then managed to semi brick it and bring it back to life but the only firmware I was able to get on there was the Carphone Warehouse one.
I'm on Three UK and the phone is locked to three. What I would like is to be able to get the official three firmware back on the phone but the only one I found was an old froyo one which didn't work for some reason when I tried flashing with Odin. It got just to the end of the download part but didn't actually flash beyond that point and the phone wouldn't boot etc etc so that's when I resorted to the CPW firmware.
As I am having some issues with the phone, that's why I would like to be able to get it back to completely three firmware as I suspect my problems are down to the wrong one.
Sorry to be long winded and sincere apologies if the answer is already here somewhere but I really cannot find it.
Thank you in advance.
Alison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have been looking at the wrong pace the whole time : try looking at http://yagyagaire.blogspot.com
OR,
Follow this direct link http://yagyagaire.blogspot.com/2012/01/official-samsung-firmwares.html
Thank you so much, you're a star. Now to download what I need.
Alison
Oh dear, it appears the only gingerbread rom for three is Italy and I'm uk. The uk one listed is the froyo one that I have already tried. Will download it again and try it but don't think it will be any different to before.
What a shame. Wonder why there isn't a gingerbread one for three uk when there is for Italy.
Thanks for trying though, I do appreciate it.
Aliso
ya me too, need one for 3 for UK, the gingerbread ver 2.3.5
can we get that from anywhere?