Database Develop

Kaiser Memory Card capacity

Some people say Kaiser can manage up to 8GB and some say it can manage
up to 16GB all I have is 4GB and its more then enough. But a friend wants to send me one and asked me what is would prefer. I would go for 16GB but I don't know if I can use it. I have a AT&T Tilt.
Thank You.

Hi and welcome around,
searching a little bit around may have answered your question .
The Kaiser definitely supports µSDHC up to 16 GB. As soon as 32 GB comes up, it will also support it.

Got a 16Gb in mine. Runs great. Just got to find stuff to fill it now!

What 16 GB are you using?

Edris said:
Some people say Kaiser can manage up to 8GB and some say it can manage
up to 16GB all I have is 4GB and its more then enough. But a friend wants to send me one and asked me what is would prefer. I would go for 16GB but I don't know if I can use it. I have a AT&T Tilt.
Thank You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Guys.

SaltyDawg said:
What 16 GB are you using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also have a 16 gb micro sdhc card - got it a couple of weeks ago. It's a sandisk, and works great. I've had no problem whatsoever getting more than half filled already!

Edris said:
Some people say Kaiser can manage up to 8GB and some say it can manage
up to 16GB all I have is 4GB and its more then enough. But a friend wants to send me one and asked me what is would prefer. I would go for 16GB but I don't know if I can use it. I have a AT&T Tilt.
Thank You.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am also using a 16GB sandisk. It works great and have no problems. The only thing I will say, as with any flash memory, is that mine is just below 15GB. I personally think that the labeled amount should be the minimum amount available. Sorry for that... go for the 16GB!

Where are you guys buying these 16GB cards? I can't even find them on any of the major retailers' sites. I'm curious to see how much they run. 16Gb used to be a pipe dream to me. heck, the 4 gig I'm currently using used to be such a pipe dream. I remember when I paid $350 for a 1 gig SD card...
16 gigs would be lovely though. I could load up on music.

SaltyDawg said:
Where are you guys buying these 16GB cards? I can't even find them on any of the major retailers' sites. I'm curious to see how much they run. 16Gb used to be a pipe dream to me. heck, the 4 gig I'm currently using used to be such a pipe dream. I remember when I paid $350 for a 1 gig SD card...
16 gigs would be lovely though. I could load up on music.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here are 2 threads dicussing where to find them: here and here.

I got my 16 gb sandisk card on ebay, for $52.00 delivered. I've bought a number of accessories for my tilt off ebay. It's a good place to buy things, as long as you buy from a seller with a really good feedback rating.

16 GB SanDisk Best Buy $100.00

danfr said:
16 GB SanDisk Best Buy $100.00
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can get far better prices than that like this http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-16GB-...2?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1230674794&sr=8-2

16GB MicroSDHC Class 6 card (DRATS!) - ONLY $24.99 (s&h FREE)
The best bang for your buck right now for a Class 6 MicroSDHC card, is the 16GB made by ADATA - from Newegg.com:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211300
- - -
What SPEED is the Tilt able to handle for the MicroSDHC cards? There are Class 2, 4, and 6 - Class 6 being the fastest. However, if the Tilt is only able to transfer up to or slightly below the speed of a Class 4 card, then buying a Class 6 rather than a Class 4 would be a total waste of money for the higher speed -
- - -
I was going to post something about the ADATA 8GB card I actually have, because I thought it was a great buy at 18.99, but when I checked their web site today, it turns out since I bought mine only about 2 weeks ago, they posted the above Class 6 speed card with 16GB!
I would make a fuss and return my old one, the only thing is, I don't even have any way of filling up the 8GB card - so I may as well wait until the 32Gb cards come out - also anothjer reason is my Tilt is getting to bee a little long in the tooth with scratches, etc. - so by the time the 32GB cards come down in price there may be other models coming onto the market I want to buy instead of the current phone I have now...

KruseLudsMobile said:
The best bang for your buck right now for a Class 6 MicroSDHC card, is the 16GB made by ADATA - from Newegg.com:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211300
- - -
What SPEED is the Tilt able to handle for the MicroSDHC cards? There are Class 2, 4, and 6 - Class 6 being the fastest. However, if the Tilt is only able to transfer up to or slightly below the speed of a Class 4 card, then buying a Class 6 rather than a Class 4 would be a total waste of money for the higher speed -
- - -
I was going to post something about the ADATA 8GB card I actually have, because I thought it was a great buy at 18.99, but when I checked their web site today, it turns out since I bought mine only about 2 weeks ago, they posted the above Class 6 speed card with 16GB!
I would make a fuss and return my old one, the only thing is, I don't even have any way of filling up the 8GB card - so I may as well wait until the 32Gb cards come out - also anothjer reason is my Tilt is getting to bee a little long in the tooth with scratches, etc. - so by the time the 32GB cards come down in price there may be other models coming onto the market I want to buy instead of the current phone I have now...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There will no doubt be better phones on the market in the near future (HTC's leaked road map has some nice looking phones due out this year, and that Nvidia Tegra system looks awesome). But, the beauty of the situation here is, pretty much any phone worth buying in the future should have a micro SD slot. It kind of sucked buying SD cards with Mini SD on the horizon, and then buying Mini SD cards with Micro SD on the horizon. But Micro SD seems to have settled in as the standard, so your 16 gig card will probably work on your next device.

According to A-Data's website, they don't make a 16gb microsd card
The link above takes you to a 16gb flash card, but it's not a microsd card. The cheapest ones I've seen are 50+ on ebay, probably fakes, but I have an 8gb, probably fake that I go on ebay, and it works perfectly.

I have a 16 gb micro sd card that I bought on ebay, and it works great. I've had no problems whatsoever with it, and I've really loaded it up! I paid $52.00 for it (shipping included).

It Supports up to 32gb

Correction 16GB MicrSDHC not yet available?
My first post tothis thread was wrong, that was a 16GB sd card, not a micro sdhc card. All I can find for highest capacity (class 6) is an 8GB card which I am now using (and itis fast):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211341
And it's only $15.49!
It appears that the class 4 and class 6 make little difference in speed tests,maybe the tilt read/write throughput gets maxed out at the class 4 speed??? Any thoughts anyone?

Which SD card should i buy?

Hi,
i want to replace the Stock 2GB Micro SD card against a new and better one. Which cards can you reccomend me?
Thanks!

Any class 6 that you can find.
May i recc you use amazon or ebay?
Should find some holiday sales or better prices on new years.

will the g1 support 32gb? i am also in the market for a new sdcard and was thinking of a 16gb or 32gb...currently using an 8gb class 6

icon57 said:
will the g1 support 32gb? i am also in the market for a new sdcard and was thinking of a 16gb or 32gb...currently using an 8gb class 6
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nope, 16GB is limit...The G1' hardware limits it to 16 only, but the card will really have 14Gbs on it not 16...Just like 8gb card has like 7Gbs on it.

It will do 16GB, in theory 32GB as well, but I have yet to see a MicroSD 32GB Class 6 SDHC card, and I just did a google search and didn't see anything either.
For the OP, also check out your local Radio Shack. I was in need of an SD card in a pinch, right here right now, because mine went bad and was causing some bad flashes, and thus needed to fix it ASAP so I could get my phone working right again.
Anyway, they had Sandisk Mobile Ultra cards on sale, and I was able to get the elusive class8 4GB card for $12. Sandisk didn't make them for very long, the performance difference between class6 and class8 is very, very small, and not worth the premium if it isn't on sale.
If they don't have any great buys like I was lucky enough to get (I would have ordered one off the internet when I got home if I hadn't been so lucky) get a class 6 8gb card off the itnernet. Great deal on a lot of memory. If you really are going to use more than 8gb, then go ahead and get a 16gb, but in all honesty the only way you would go over 8gb is if you refuse to add and REMOVE music/videos/pics from you SD card.

Ace42 said:
Nope, 16GB is limit...The G1' hardware limits it to 16 only, but the card will really have 14Gbs on it not 16...Just like 8gb card has like 7Gbs on it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought it was just a software "limit" and that 1.6+ supports the 32gb out of the box?

pjcforpres said:
I thought it was just a software "limit" and that 1.6+ supports the 32gb out of the box?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah your right...Just like Xp cant read cards bigger than 8GB natively while vista/7 can read all sizes.But then again im on hero(1.5) guess that doesnt support 32GB cards.
But i would prefer he saves that money if he plans on getting a new andro

i think i will go with 16gb...seems to be more than enough...not willing to order one off the net only to find it doesnt work...anyone see any good deals on a 16gb card? this was the best i could find...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16820211378

icon57 said:
i think i will go with 16gb...seems to be more than enough...not willing to order one off the net only to find it doesnt work...anyone see any good deals on a 16gb card? this was the best i could find...
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=N82E16820211378
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?u...words=16GB+micro+sd&x=0&y=0&fingerprint=+Cart
Much better deals. Amazon will not scam you that is a trustful dealer.

If you have a microcenter near you, they usually have great deals too. Also on the web.

my transcend 8gb C6 actually has 7.65gb usable space.

pjcforpres said:
It will do 16GB, in theory 32GB as well, but I have yet to see a MicroSD 32GB Class 6 SDHC card, and I just did a google search and didn't see anything either.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pretty sure it doesn't exist.

Thanks for the replies
I think i will go with the SanDisk 8 or 16Gb class 6 one.

Sandisk 32gb micro SD. Anyone tried it yet?

http://www.sandisk.com/products/mobile-memory-products/sandisk-microsdhc
I'm thinking about getting one, but don't want to drop 200 bucks on it without hearing what others who have gotten one have to say.

crisisinthecity said:
http://www.sandisk.com/products/mobile-memory-products/sandisk-microsdhc
I'm thinking about getting one, but don't want to drop 200 bucks on it without hearing what others who have gotten one have to say.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What class is it? I just tried finding that information out but couldn't find the specs on it. It it's a class 6 then I would be very tempted to get this. If it's only a class 2 then I will pass.

Pandemoniumone said:
What class is it? I just tried finding that information out but couldn't find the specs on it. It it's a class 6 then I would be very tempted to get this. If it's only a class 2 then I will pass.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It says on it the class #. It's class 2. To expensive for class 2.

alsalahi said:
It says on it the class #. It's class 2. To expensive for class 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Am I blind or what lol! Yes, far to expensive for a class 2, and after owning a class 6 card I will never go with anything less.

There AERE NO class 6, 32GB or 16 GB micro SD cards on the market today. (I think its only up to 8GB)

tuppaacc said:
There AERE NO class 6, 32GB or 16 GB micro SD cards on the market today. (I think its only up to 8GB)
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Click to collapse
That's not true bro. I'm using a Transend 16 gig class 6 in my HD2 right now, used it in my Blackstone as well.

Pandemoniumone said:
That's not true bro. I'm using a Transend 16 gig class 6 in my HD2 right now, used it in my Blackstone as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have the Transend 16 GB Class 6 as well and love it.
Something has been bothering me for a while now though about a 32 GB class 6. I dont know if we will see one (at least at a "reasonable" price ANY time soon). Think about it. 32 GB is the absolute max the microsd can handle. Device manufacturers are looking into new storage options which should be implemented next year. I just don't know how big of a demand or even incentive there is to release an upgrade to a dying storage medium.

I'm really just looking for more storage space on my phone so that I can put all of my mp3's and vids on there without filling up my card. Class 6 would be nice. Honestly I've never even seen a class 6 micro sd card.

crisisinthecity said:
I'm really just looking for more storage space on my phone so that I can put all of my mp3's and vids on there without filling up my card. Class 6 would be nice. Honestly I've never even seen a class 6 micro sd card.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It makes a huge difference when you're transferring files to and from your PC if you have the class 6, much faster file transfer.

Yeah thats why I said I THINK! honestly I been with my 16GB class 2 for a really long time now and did some research on the technology of the 32GB micro SD card, I read somewhere that its not possible for the moment (or something like that when I read it) how ever IF THERE IS A 32GB class 6 or EVEN a class 4 I will Definitely BUY IT!

Samsung 32GB Micro SD
If I am not mistaken, I saw a Samsung 32 GB class 6 online for about $600.00. And I too have read that 32GB is the upper limit for microSD.

I have been using a SanDisk 32GB card for about 1 month now. It says "Class 4" but the transfer rate using WMDC seems a bit slower than it should be (when moving large files). I have since moved files using standard MicroSD reader and have no problem. The [email protected] can handle 32GB. Card is still a bit pricey (you can get 2 x 16 for a lot less).

I have heard RiDATA Lightning Series 16GB is freakin fast it is class 6 for 50 bucks looks like a really good deal.

i just bought one from ebay for $34.99 the seller has 100% feedback and people that bought them says they are good. so ill see if the knockoff works lol. its covered on the ebay buyer protection

s0leFUNK said:
I have the Transend 16 GB Class 6 as well and love it.
Something has been bothering me for a while now though about a 32 GB class 6. I dont know if we will see one (at least at a "reasonable" price ANY time soon). Think about it. 32 GB is the absolute max the microsd can handle. Device manufacturers are looking into new storage options which should be implemented next year. I just don't know how big of a demand or even incentive there is to release an upgrade to a dying storage medium.
Click to expand...
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Thats not true; sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdxc
2TB is the new limit

where did you guys get the 6 class? price?

If I have to spend $600 on a 32gb class 6 microsd, I'll buy myself an iphone 4 instead.

Hauk00 said:
Thats not true; sdcard.org/developers/tech/sdxc
2TB is the new limit
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Click to collapse
Sorry Bud, but that's SD-XC, not HC.
It's new tech, doesn't count. :3

First, 2TB is the limit for Micro SDHX I belive, and I don't think any PDAs or phones are set up to use them yet, next generation.
I recently got a Class 2 Sandisk SDHC 32gb at Verizon for $100. It was supposed to be $150 if you didn't have one of their phones (Droid X I belive) but they didn't ask any questions and gave it to me for the cheaper price. Works fine, plenty fast for video etc.
One note, I did try to buy a cheap '32gb SDHC' off thEbay and what I got looked just like the one I got from Verizon but was marked with Class 4. It would format with 32gb but when I tried to load data onto it after about 8-16gb or so it started getting errors. I figure it was one that was tinkered with internally to make it look like 32gb but actually was just a 8gb or 16gb in reality. I got suckered for $25 so beware.
Marc

I ended up picking up a 16gb class 4 Kingston one for 40 bucks that actually works really well and my phone doesn't lag anymore accessing files on my SD card like Music...

Wintec Class 10 microSDHC 16GB Card - $29.49

Saw this card on Newegg today. Pretty cheap for a Class 10 16GB card and reviewers state it meets Class 10 standards, and that it appears to be a rebranded Samsung card, so it is a quality product.
Android only supports Class 6, meaning this card should be plenty quick, and will utilize full Class 10 potential during file transfers over USB.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820161405
Merry Christmas!

Thanks
Ordered 2 !
Happy Holidays!

On sale today, 27.99 - free shipping. Limit 5.

I just ordered a class 6 8gig from meritline for 15 bucks, just what I had been wanting.
http://www.meritline.com/adata-8gb-microsdhc-card-class4---p-26412.aspx

Can you confirm its speed? I was reading the reviews and they were saying the ,speed isn't class 10.

oohaylima said:
Can you confirm its speed? I was reading the reviews and they were saying the ,speed isn't class 10.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3 speed tests so far in CM7: 6MB/s Write 14MB/s Read average. Bought it at Frys for 32.

Works AMAZING
I bouth this card from newegg and ive been using it about a week now and it works great not a snag at all

Anybody got a good report on this? I wanna buy it but I see a few reviews saying it works for a week then dies... can anyone vouch for this card being solid?
Sent from my HERO200 using XDA App

Wintec 16gb CL10
Just got the Wintec 16gb CL10 from Newegg, put it in my Sprint Hero to format and as soon as it finish saying setting SD card the screen locked up. removed battery/ installed and saw installed apps icons were gone in its places gear icon. Installed original 8gb and app icons were back but apps came up with FC. removed each app and reinstalled and they work fine now. I'm afraid to put the 16gb back in, it seems fine in my laptop. I have no idea whats wrong!

I got one of these around Christmas. Formatted, partitioned and transferred my stuff. I thought all was well until I had to restore a nandroid and it bootlooped. I put my old 8G Sandisk back in and haven't tried again. So my experience was it worked about a week. I guess it's a write/read issue. I had trouble with recovery mounting the card to even see my backups. I had read reviews of spotty quality and I guess I had the bad luck of the draw.

hmmm ok then I guess i'll pass on this one. I want to get one that'll last so i can transfer it to a new phone when i upgrade.

on htc website, it says microSD 2.0 compatable, & i know some phones can only support so much extra storage, ie: some say microSD up to 16gb, so maybe the hero doesnt support high capasity cards.
anybody got a conformation on how big a microsd card we can go, that wont cause issues.
i was looking @ this card in the OP, but now im double thinking.

jcj77d said:
on htc website, it says microSD 2.0 compatable, & i know some phones can only support so much extra storage, ie: some say microSD up to 16gb, so maybe the hero doesnt support high capasity cards.
anybody got a conformation on how big a micro sd card we can go, that wont cause issues.
i was looking @ this card in the OP, but now i'm double thinking.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
32GB class 6,a class 10 card will run at class 6 speeds when mounted in the phone.When unmounted and transferring files from your computer to phone or the opposite.

FdxRider said:
32GB class 6,a class 10 card will run at class 6 speeds when mounted in the phone.When unmounted and transferring files from your computer to phone or the opposite.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what brand?

jcj77d said:
what brand?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you mean the 32gb your gonna have to search cuz I've seen very few. Don't remember what brand,most that are 32 gb I've seen are class2. I have a class 10 8gb here and it runs slower in my phone than my class 6 does.Sorry I can't give you more info.My class 10 is a Patriot

I bought the wintech 16 gig card back in january and 15 days later I woke up and my phone said the sd card was not formatted. Both windows 7 and ubuntu 10.10 only saw the card as 1 gig but neither could format it nor create new partition tables. I lost all the data but luckily had a semi recent backup on my computer. RMA'ed it back to newegg and got a 16 gig class 6 card from a more reliable manufacturer.
Sent from my HTC Hero CDMA using XDA App

[Q] Micro SDHC Upgrade

Morning XDA,
Just had a quick question about your opinions on micro SDHC cards.
The 2GB that Sprint gave me is quickly filling up, and so I'm deciding to go up to an 8GB
Any cards (type/model) you recommend and which ones cause any problems?

doratheconquistadora said:
Morning XDA,
Just had a quick question about your opinions on micro SDHC cards.
The 2GB that Sprint gave me is quickly filling up, and so I'm deciding to go up to an 8GB
Any cards (type/model) you recommend and which ones cause any problems?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not too sure about the 8GB cards but I bought a 16GB Class 10 SDHC card from Newegg.com for pretty cheap ($35.99).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ..._re=16gb_sdhc_class_10-_-20-220-546-_-Product
It performs great and I haven't had a single problem with it. I also notice that my HD videos that are recorded aren't as choppy.

I have the exact same card and I definitely recommend it. Also did some speed tests on it and its definitely a class 10
cachorropedorro said:
I'm not too sure about the 8GB cards but I bought a 16GB Class 10 SDHC card from Newegg.com for pretty cheap ($35.99).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ..._re=16gb_sdhc_class_10-_-20-220-546-_-Product
It performs great and I haven't had a single problem with it. I also notice that my HD videos that are recorded aren't as choppy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont need a signature

Well I'm on a budget (under $20) and looking at just 8GB Class 4 or 6
This is mostly just to upgrade storage space
I appreciate the suggestions though

There was a 16GB Class 10 from Wintec on New Egg for $24 and change. If you're going to spend $20 go a few more. The class makes a difference and you will notice it.

BrandoKC said:
There was a 16GB Class 10 from Wintec on New Egg for $24 and change. If you're going to spend $20 go a few more. The class makes a difference and you will notice it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh nice. Yeah I've been looking around Newegg but have been basing judgement on reviews. I'll definitely look into that one.
Backups take up most of my space.

I got this 8 gig. class 6 card on Amazon for about 17 bucks (I was able to bundle it with something else to get free shipping). I find it's just fine for holding some music and app files. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026L7DG0

Carrick1973 said:
I got this 8 gig. class 6 card on Amazon for about 17 bucks (I was able to bundle it with something else to get free shipping). I find it's just fine for holding some music and app files. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0026L7DG0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's actually the same one I added to my cart at Newegg ($15.75 w/ Free Shipping)
I'm not THAT stingy between the price disparities, just saw it on NE first.

I bought this 8GB Class 6 @ amazon a while ago.. best SD Card I have bought yet..
$23.95
What I like the best is that it comes with a USB Adapter instead of the SD Card Adapter.
http://www.amazon.com/Lexar-High-Sp...5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1302950697&sr=1-5

In my best buy in atl we just recently got class 10 micro 8gb for 25. It's a sale price but sometimes they last a while.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App

For you guys who upgraded.....
Are the cards formatted out of the box, and "plug-n-play", or do they require additional steps before being read by the phone? I purchased (against my better judgement) a Sandisk 8GB Class 4 card last week, and the phone didn't even recognize the new card. Currently running CM7, so I though the ROM may be the issue, but I nandroided back to Stock, and the card wasn't recognized on that one either. So I just took it back (the card).
I'd like to upgrade, since yes, the backups do take a substantial amount of space, but I'd rather get a card that I can just plug in and go.

95gsrsedan said:
In my best buy in atl we just recently got class 10 micro 8gb for 25. It's a sale price but sometimes they last a while.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're talking about the PNY card, the Best Buy website is showing this as a new item in my local store for $29.99 ($49.99 for 16gb). I'm going to run over there after work and see if they're on sale.

Here is the card I got for me and my wife's Shift. They have been reliable.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820208453
$16.99 with free shipping. 8GB Class 6 card. Great reviews.
Edit - LOL I see you have already looked at this card...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211518
seems to be out of stock right now, but I was scared to try it after the reviews I read. But definitely works good. There's a flashable zip somewhere to change the SD cache or something and it worked out pretty well

This is a little off topic from my original question, but it's still accessories related
I honestly don't like the charger that came with this phone; juts out of the wall to far and I don't like how it's two parts. I'll definitely keep the cable for computer connectivity though.
I was browsing Amazon and I've seen a couple flat retractable prong ones and I can never seem to find cord length. Plus compatibility issues in terms of voltage output
Need a one piece charge, with a nice lengthy cord, and compact prong style
Any recommendations?

pretty much any micro USB cable will charge the phone. As for charger, I've been using AC chargers for ipod touch and all of them worked with the phone. From my experience, HTC phones tend to be not very picky when it comes to chargers.

Sandisk has never failed me Transcend has.

http://bensbargains.net/redirect/194356/Patriot-8GB-microSDHC-Class-10-Card-13-at-Newegg

cachorropedorro said:
http://bensbargains.net/redirect/194356/Patriot-8GB-microSDHC-Class-10-Card-13-at-Newegg
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not bad for the cost but I'm always hesitant after reading reviews especially if other Android users rated it 1/5 with reason

No Android users rated it 1/5. The 1/5 were for people who never received their rebate, and Linux users.