Database Develop

Keypad Light tweak?

http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=43822&highlight=keyboard
Is there any current way to perform this kind of tweak for the Wizard? I've just spent 20 mins searching but couldn't find anything related
Cheers!

nope

I have to say, despite it's nice design I'm really starting to get irritated with my Vario now... The processor is uber-slow compared to all other HTC devices, it's not tweakable anywhere near the amount the others are, it has an OMAP processor and thus won't be possible to run Linux etc on it.
I think even after 2 months it's time to look at a new device

blackobsidian said:
it has an OMAP processor and thus won't be possible to run Linux etc on it.
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That's bull**** - the first (?) Linux smartphone from imcosys runs the TI OMAP 730 with embedded Linux;
http://www.imcosys.com/html/technische_daten.html
It's just a matter of people actually doing the work to port the O/S. Personally I think people who want to run Linux on Device X should just get Device Y which runs it natively - less work, and you support a company that already readily supports Linux on Device X-alikes.
As far as CPU-speed goes, it appears to vary per-reviewer. Some say it's slower, others say it's faster. I guess it'll depend on what you're doing with it.
Not sure what you mean with regards to 'tweakable', though. The only 'tweak' I'm readily aware of that works on e.g. the HTC Universal but not on the HTC Wizard is the keyboard backlight. They both run WM5 and are tweakable to pretty much the same extent as far as the O/S and running software allows.
That said - I obviously rather like mine. -That- said, I can see myself moving to a different device 2-3 years down the road quite easily, especially with all the network upgrades -and- the speed at which new devices are coming out. Wouldn't be too surprised if they're all rather like smaller OQO's by that time.. handheld, good battery, running will Windows XP (probably not Vista yet - hardware specs for that thing are through the roof)

See my comments have all been based on various forums I've read, posted on and recieved replies from. Apparently the OMAP architecture is completely different from most other processors and so it's a niche market (meaning people won't bother with trying to do anything good such as Linux, major overhauls of software, overclocking software etc) - Even Anton Tomov's Hack Master software is having issues with the overclocking functionality and keeps getting pushed back and back and back some more.
I have to say I bought my Wizard (MDA Vario flavour) because the design is slick and it was pretty fast in the shop demonstration. I didn't realise that the second I put anything on it, it'd slow down so much.
I've reflashed it with the best and fastest current rom out there:-
VERSION
ROM Version 1.6.7.1
ROM Date 38624
Radio Version 01.13.10
Protocol Version 4.0.13.17
ExtROM Version 1.3.2.102
And although it's faster than the bloated T-Mobile crap that it comes with by default it's still slow (my today screen only has SPB Pocket Plus and Pocket Weather on it but it still chugs occasionally) and it's an absolute nightmare playing something as simple as Arkaball!
"tweakable" I class as something I can mess around with. With my Samsung T100 I completely replaced the casin with a clear casing, reconfigured everything including LED colour and created my own firmware for it etc. I basically like to try and be individual which is why I won't got for a device already running Linux etc.
Tech Knowledge + Gadgets + being a geek = wanting cool stuff
OQO looks nice but huge. I'm looking for a device I can use for business (running a QA department) and as a mobile. Shoulda got myself a P990i... lol

Here's a proposition for your thoughts... if everybody is customizing their device, then not customizing your device makes you more of an individual
That said - yes, if you want that manner of tweakability, you should've gone for a different device. I'm not sure why a Linux-preloaded one would be excluded from the get-go because you didn't put it on there yourself.. it certainly should open up tweaking possibilities.
Overclocking software for the OMAP does exist - and I'm sure AntonTomov will get one out eventually as the number of devices using the OMAP increases. I'm sure the XScale will still be #1 for some time to be with the recent pricedrops and announced speeds (1GHz - vroom).
However, just because it's a different architecture doesn't typically stop the person who go "But does it run Linux? it does now!" on e.g. Slashdot . Of course if Linux was on your mind from the get-go, a little googling around would've readily shown which devices run it natively and which have been successfully made to run it, to whatever extent, and should've based your purchasing decision on that
For what it's worth, the Treo 700w (650? - been a while) was on my list, but once in the shop with the device in my hand, I knew I would grow to hate the form factor within the first week.

ZeBoxx said:
the first (?) Linux smartphone from imcosys runs the TI OMAP 730 with embedded Linux;
http://www.imcosys.com/html/technische_daten.html
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Click to collapse
There are many Linux phones already
http://openezx.org
but the ports to HTC Blueangel and HTC Universal
use more free software
You can also check Linux for OMAP page
http://focus.ti.com/docs/general/sp...mplatedata/cm/splashdsp/data/linux_com_portal

Correction... Everyone on this forum is customising their device... Most people in the real world buy a device and use it out of the box as they don't know or can't be bothered to upgrade it lol.
To be honest with you this is my first PPC device. Before this I was in a job where I didn't want or need the functions and features the PPC has and I had a K750i. Before that was a 7610 and before that a GX20.
I have to admit I was in the process of looking at PPC's when my K750i had an unfortunate incident where my fist went through the screen because it was crashing every 30 seconds... That's why I didn't research as much as I should have before getting my Wizard.
I've learned my lesson though and next time there'll be a LOT of research involved before I buy!
I'm assuming that individual hardware can't be replaced in the Wizard either? i.e. buying a faster processor/mobo etc? My mate's Universal had it's mobo replaced so maybe...
1Gb? Mmmm....
Treo 700w is nice but it was the 990i I meant to say (I updfated it when I realised what I posted lol)

ZeBoxx said:
I'm not sure why a Linux-preloaded one would be excluded from the get-go because you didn't put it on there yourself.. it certainly should open up tweaking possibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"running Linux" != running free software platform.
Compare Motorola A780 and HTC Blueangel/Universal.

well, I did say "should". I didn't say it would come with a CD with all the source code on it ready for compilation
We're getting way, way off-topic anyway. Keyboard/button backlights tweaks are as of yet non-existant. Chances are you can tweak it by modifying the driver - but nobody's confirmed or done so. Worst case scenario is that it's all in hardware. For the specific tweak mentioned - no, because the Wizard doesn't have a light sensor. Arguably you could start up the camera ever once in a while and check lighting that way, but it wouldn't be very accurate

Any Laptop

Alright guys. I'm getting a new laptop for school next year, and I can get basically anything that I want. I don't really want a Mac, because quite honestly, I'd end up installing Windows on it and never using the iOS. So, what computer would you choose (laptop, anyone you want!). I've been looking at The Lenovo IdeaPad Y540 with the RapidDrive. Any suggestions?

toshiba satellite laptops are good. my sister has one. it's good, and not too expensive.

KHeeney5 said:
Alright guys. I'm getting a new laptop for school next year, and I can get basically anything that I want. I don't really want a Mac, because quite honestly, I'd end up installing Windows on it and never using the iOS. So, what computer would you choose (laptop, anyone you want!). I've been looking at The Lenovo IdeaPad Y540 with the RapidDrive. Any suggestions?
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Click to collapse
Get one of thw intel i5 i3 and something else ones.
I have i5 and i3 blazing fast and HP!

KHeeney5 said:
Alright guys. I'm getting a new laptop for school next year, and I can get basically anything that I want. I don't really want a Mac, because quite honestly, I'd end up installing Windows on it and never using the iOS. So, what computer would you choose (laptop, anyone you want!). I've been looking at The Lenovo IdeaPad Y540 with the RapidDrive. Any suggestions?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go to the dell website and customize a laptop to whatever you want, you know, choose your own: processor, ram, hardrive space, graphics card etc.
I customized an inspiron 1525 a whil back and its running nicely

how about the best of both worlds , getting a macbook to show around and get the honeys in school , and having it dual boot windows at home to get some work done (when nobody sees you , ofc)

I use Lenovo Thinkpads normally. They are awesome. I really like their customer service. It's really IBM, but they are very patient and knowledgeable.

Well, you'd never use iOS on a Mac anyways, since iOS doesn't run on Macs (except in the emulator as part of the iOS SDK).
It is all about what you need. I'd get a Dell and run Ubuntu on it if I wasn't relying on certain Mac OS X software. Oh wait, I have a Dell running Ubuntu that I use a lot, in addition to my MacBook Pro.
The problem is you don't specify your needs at all, there is no best computer. I love my MacBook Pro and I love my Dell. And I'd happily recommend either of them to you, or several other machines - depending on your needs. So, what do you need?

I'd advise against getting a Dell Inspiron. There's a design flaw in the hinge where the case starts to spread apart; my girlfriend, mother, and roommate all have the problem and it started just after a year of owning their laptops. If you're already looking at Lenovo and you really can "get pretty much whatever you want" I'd suggest looking at a ThinkPad, the build quality is much better than the IdeaPads.

What are you exactly planning to do with the laptop?
You might need extra graphics muscle for vid editing our gaming.
Go for something with a sandy bridge. I'll be somewhat futureproof.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I897 using XDA App

souljaboy said:
how about the best of both worlds , getting a macbook to show around and get the honeys in school , and having it dual boot windows at home to get some work done (when nobody sees you , ofc)
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Seconded.
Or you can just boot Windows and say;
"I REALLY love the hardware, but Mac is sooooo last picosecond ago."
Otherwise, go for an ultraportable.

http://goo.gl/TDMgh
This one.

sakai4eva said:
Seconded.
Or you can just boot Windows and say;
"I REALLY love the hardware, but Mac is sooooo last picosecond ago."
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Click to collapse
Have you ever actually USED OS X? Like I said, a computer is a tool. OS X provides the core foundation to do things Windows users can only dream of. Want me to blow your mind? I can show you videowall and blended projector setups running all in software (plus some Matrox TripleHead2Go's) doing things that required thousands of dollars worth of video processing hardware five years ago.
Granted, that's a rare application, but the same benefits apply to lower-level programs too. Mac OS has had true, full system-wide color management since the first OS X release. Windows? Their new, much-touted color management is about on the same level as Mac OS 9 was - 11 years ago.
Apple has done a great job providing creative professionals with an amazing platform. Sadly, it seems like they're abandoning us in favor of the content consumers and iOS. We shall see. But for right now, it's the best thing out there for the needs of many creative professionals.

Mark Uhde said:
Have you ever actually USED OS X? Like I said, a computer is a tool. OS X provides the core foundation to do things Windows users can only dream of. Want me to blow your mind? I can show you videowall and blended projector setups running all in software (plus some Matrox TripleHead2Go's) doing things that required thousands of dollars worth of video processing hardware five years ago.
Granted, that's a rare application, but the same benefits apply to lower-level programs too. Mac OS has had true, full system-wide color management since the first OS X release. Windows? Their new, much-touted color management is about on the same level as Mac OS 9 was - 11 years ago.
Apple has done a great job providing creative professionals with an amazing platform. Sadly, it seems like they're abandoning us in favor of the content consumers and iOS. We shall see. But for right now, it's the best thing out there for the needs of many creative professionals.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you ever actually USED Windows 7? Like I said, a computer is a tool. Windows 7 provides the core foundation to do things Mac users can only dream of. Want me to blow your mind? I can show you 16xAA and 4xAF graphics on SIX monitors (plus some sick DirectX 11 tessellation) doing things that required thousands of dollars worth of Mac hardware five months ago.
Granted, that's a common application, but the same benefits apply to lower-level programs too. Windows 7 has true 3d games since its release. Mac? Their new, much-touted app store is probably 4 to 5 years behind.
Microsoft/AMD/ATI/NVidia/Intel has done a great job providing gamers with an amazing platform. Sadly, it seems like they're abandoning us in favor of the content consumers and consoles. We shall see. But for right now, it's the best thing out there for the needs of many gamers.
FTFY.

Um, not sure if it was your intent, but you only proved my point. Different uses need different tools. We've got Windows 7 sitting and running up at the church on two machines that have replaced our sound boards (both front of house and monitor mix) and much of our effects and processing gear. Software Audio Console by RML Labs. Great product, and runs fantastically well on Windows 7. The developer is a bit of a nut, and he himself is always complaining about what Microsoft does poorly in Windows (especially in regards to memory management, which he notes is tuned more towards most processing power, not lowest latency like one desires in a live audio application). Regardless, he's managed to get Windows down to a few milliseconds of latency, and he has the whole setup working very, very well.
So, you proved my point. Windows 7 is a great gaming OS. I never said it wasn't There's a lot more to this world than games, but if games are what you want, the Windows 7 is where it's at - though OS X is catching up. It's definitely had "true 3D" since release. Right now the two big issues are drivers that aren't really tweak-able - and tuned more towards rendering accuracy than performance; and the actual support of developers (though both have improved a lot in the last year).

Mark Uhde said:
Um, not sure if it was your intent, but you only proved my point. Different uses need different tools. We've got Windows 7 sitting and running up at the church on two machines that have replaced our sound boards (both front of house and monitor mix) and much of our effects and processing gear. Software Audio Console by RML Labs. Great product, and runs fantastically well on Windows 7. The developer is a bit of a nut, and he himself is always complaining about what Microsoft does poorly in Windows (especially in regards to memory management, which he notes is tuned more towards most processing power, not lowest latency like one desires in a live audio application). Regardless, he's managed to get Windows down to a few milliseconds of latency, and he has the whole setup working very, very well.
So, you proved my point. Windows 7 is a great gaming OS. I never said it wasn't There's a lot more to this world than games, but if games are what you want, the Windows 7 is where it's at - though OS X is catching up. It's definitely had "true 3D" since release. Right now the two big issues are drivers that aren't really tweak-able - and tuned more towards rendering accuracy than performance; and the actual support of developers (though both have improved a lot in the last year).
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I'm just trying to say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Whatever platform that you use, as long as you are happy with it. I will not begrudge you if you decide to buy a Mac for legitimate reasons (graphics editing, etc.), but a Windows PC for me is a much better deal. Maybe its because I've grown up around Windows, so I'll never get the "need" for an overpriced and underspec'd computer.
And, yes, my PC is kinda heavily modified
Glad we could find a middle ground

Get a Macbook Pro, At least you wouldn't be getting those annoying updates and useless Norton Anti-virus notification. I been a pc user for more than 10 years and Os X is really not bad like people make it out to be.

sakai4eva said:
I'm just trying to say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Whatever platform that you use, as long as you are happy with it. I will not begrudge you if you decide to buy a Mac for legitimate reasons (graphics editing, etc.), but a Windows PC for me is a much better deal. Maybe its because I've grown up around Windows, so I'll never get the "need" for an overpriced and underspec'd computer.
And, yes, my PC is kinda heavily modified
Glad we could find a middle ground
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think if you'd shop it, you'd find Macs aren't bad for what you're getting, price wise. There are things that have value people don't mention. Things like the glass screen on laptops (hard to damage and easy to clean - sadly, also REALLY bad glare) and the large full-multitouch glass trackpad... it's a joy to use, easy and fast.
As for the desktops, Mac Pros are crazy pricey at first glance. But when you look closer, they're using server (Xeon) processors and server-grade components. Which makes almost no difference in performance, but it does legitimately add a fortune to the cost. Apple needs a true desktop machine. But if you compare it to other machines using the same components, pricing is similar or better.
The big thing is that Apple has no low-end, cheap-built, high-performance machines. Their machines are all made THEIR WAY. No choices. 1984 style, even. I do not like that, but when looked at in the broader market, it's not so bad - Macs are one of many choices to find the best tool for each job. Windows is also one of many choices. I spend much of my time on a Dell in Linux
BTW, I wasn't even talking graphics editing. Though the color management engine makes Macs great for that. Next time you go to a concert and see walls of video screens behind the stage and stuff like that, and you assume there's a ton of fancy video gear, there might not be. The software exists, on Mac OS X, to do that all in software today. And the software exists, on Windows, to mix sound all in software, today. And the results, in both cases, are as good as traditional hardware solutions.

Sorry I have't posted back guys. But I ended up ordering:
Toshiba Portege r700
Windows 7 Pro 64 bit
Intel i7 @ 2.67 GHz
4 GB DDR2
120 GB SSD
Fingerprint Scanner
HDMI Out
13.3 inch widescreen
The SSD and DDR2 was important to me since I will be a computer engineering student. I love it. Fast, extremely thin (for all the guts) and just as light as my girlfriends MB Air.
Thanks for your help.
Sent from my DROIDX

Sounds like a nice machine, but I question why you wanted DDR2, and not DDR3. I'm just a noob though.

ASUS G51J works GREAT for gaming and school

Can I Install WP8 on a WP7 Phone?

is there any way to install wp8 on a wp7 phone?

Really ? Did you do any homework or read any of the blogs about Windows Phone 8 ? I guess not. A key word that you should know is "search" as you would of found your answer.
To answer your question, NO. Window Phone 7 users will get a upgrade to Windows Phone 7.8 and it will give you the new start menu of Windows Phone 8 but, nothing else.

Windows phone 7.8
There will be update to wp7/wp7.5 called wp7.8 and you have same interface than Windows phone 8

kilus said:
is there any way to install wp8 on a wp7 phone?
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I'm pretty sure we'll be able to put some sort of custom ROM WP8 on a WP7 device.
Other than the secure boot, which should hopefully be easily turned off, I haven't seen anything which would prevent the OS from running on a WP7 device.

DavidinCT said:
Really ? Did you do any homework or read any of the blogs about Windows Phone 8 ? I guess not. A key word that you should know is "search" as you would of found your answer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really? did you do any homework or read any blogs about how to get laid as a nerd? i guess not. a key word you should know is "balls," as you'd require a pair as a real man and help you stop masterbating at online porn, move out your mom's house, and finally get laid at 43 years of age.
hetwo said:
There will be update to wp7/wp7.5 called wp7.8 and you have same interface than Windows phone 8
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Click to collapse
thanks hetwo.
gedmurphy said:
I'm pretty sure we'll be able to put some sort of custom ROM WP8 on a WP7 device.
Other than the secure boot, which should hopefully be easily turned off, I haven't seen anything which would prevent the OS from running on a WP7 device.
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thank you too.. its good knowing there are some decent intelligent people out there willing to answer questions without having to be a disrespectful troll.

Hey guys,
Firstly please don't get this wp8 forum off to a bad start and keep flaming each other? Respect each other and the rules please :cyclops:
Secondly, from my understanding current hardware specs of wp7 phones are not high enough, do not meet, wp8 requirements so the answer is probably no. The official line is a definate no, wp7 devices, even new ones like lumia 900 will not get wp8 update

Hopefully soon wp8 on WP7 by Custom Rom

timmymarsh said:
Secondly, from my understanding current hardware specs of wp7 phones are not high enough, do not meet, wp8 requirements so the answer is probably no. The official line is a definate no, wp7 devices, even new ones like lumia 900 will not get wp8 update
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Click to collapse
Definitely not via an update, that's clearly been addressed by Microsoft. However existing WP7 hardware is surely powerful enough to run WP8. The single core processor is definitely not a problem, and low end WP8 devices are looking to be lower in specs than current WP7 devices.
I'm no expert in usermode on WP, but I know the NT kernel extremely well, and it's more than capable of running on our hardware.

Some body will hack it
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

Only problem maybe drivers. It is Microsoft way to release oem from out of warranty obligation to keep an outdated product updated.
Who wants to sell one shirt and that person never buys another because it last too long. I understand wanted to save money. But how can they keep making money if the people that work for them is trying to make something2 years old work off of the mere 500$ the phone is worth. Hey has to make money or they will disappear like farmer jack and circuit city
Sent from my HD7 T9292 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App

kilus said:
really? did you do any homework or read any blogs about how to get laid as a nerd? i guess not. a key word you should know is "balls," as you'd require a pair as a real man and help you stop masterbating at online porn, move out your mom's house, and finally get laid at 43 years of age.
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahaha. If you read ANY PLACE on this site, it says to SEARCH before posting.
You must not know how to read. This has been a major topic of discussion over every Windows Phone 7 related site.
It does not take a geek or loser like yourself just to spend 2 min reading before posting a subject that has been posted everywhere.
The new upgrade goes to the NT kernal over the WinCE one. That does take more horsepower than current devices can do. It will have native support for C++ and a lot of other modern tech (NFC and others). The current chipset in current devices will not be able to handle it with reasonable performance. As I understand it.
IF some hacker was to create a rom for a current device, it would not support more than 1/2 of the OS and the performace would not be anything worth using unless they stripped everything out.
It's really questionable if a hacker will be able to get it working on current devices and what type of performance. If you really want to know the changes, it's a little long but, it really shows what it can and will do...
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit
It's the full streaming event, and it's almost 2 hours but, it's impressive and I can see why they went this route.

DavidinCT said:
The new upgrade goes to the NT kernal over the WinCE one. That does take more horsepower than current devices can do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely not true. The NT kernel will run on seriously low specs without any issues. It'll happily run on an old pentium 233 and 32MB RAM without any notable issues in performance. In fact,WP7 hardware is sufficient to run full blown Windows 7, not just the NT6 kernel (assuming the processor was x86 and not ARMv7)
I don't se drivers being a huge blocker as the number of drivers for NT6 is huge, and even in the worst case scenario any drivers we may be missing can be written.
It'll be interesting to see how quickly someone gets WP8 running on a WP7 device.

gedmurphy said:
Absolutely not true. The NT kernel will run on seriously low specs without any issues. It'll happily run on an old pentium 233 and 32MB RAM without any notable issues in performance. In fact,WP7 hardware is sufficient to run full blown Windows 7, not just the NT6 kernel (assuming the processor was x86 and not ARMv7)
I don't se drivers being a huge blocker as the number of drivers for NT6 is huge, and even in the worst case scenario any drivers we may be missing can be written.
It'll be interesting to see how quickly someone gets WP8 running on a WP7 device.
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It's a good question. As I got that from a Tweet by someone at MS. As I understand Windows 8 has a updated kernel that they are using on WP8. Not sure on it, as I thought it was the same as you (I'm a 20 year Windows Systems admin, I know the NT kernel COULD run on 286 machines if needed, not sure on the updated one, just going on what I heard).
It might of been the option of forcing users to have not hard reset their phones (like going from 32bit to 64-bit, no upgrade path) and that would cause a big impact on customer reports. As I have understood from watching the whole MS thing on it, it came down to performance problems that ended it before it started. Some chipsets to support the new OS are not on WP7 devices, so it limits the options current users can take advantage of.
It's not just about the devices and the end users , its' about the PR nightmare. Any press is good but, bad press is a whole different story. In a year or 2 no one will even talk about this. Android does this all the time and even Apple did it to their first gen device.
Who knows. Maybe one of the great hackers here or DFT will make it run on a current device. It makes me question it though.
As long as WP7 devices have been out, Not one WM 6.5 devices (not incuding the HD2 as it was used as a test device for MS on WP7 and drivers were leaked) got a WP7 upgrade OR No Android device got WP7 or the other way around. There are plenty of Android devices or even a handful of 6.5 devices that could of run WP7 fine.
The hackers can do only so much but, time will tell, I just wonder IF POSSABLE (with out MS), just how long it would take.
It will be interesting to see tho...
I do know I am about 95% sure I will be buying one on release, just depending on the models on release.

The reason for almost none of the 6.5 devices running WP7 could be that most of the old devices running 6.5 didn´t have the needed display (capacitive and the WP7 resolution) or processor. Take the Toshiba TG01: resistive display and higher resolution.

btw....moved to Q&A:good:

this will be possible atleast for hd7 and focus 1st gen:good:

hackarchive said:
this will be possible atleast for hd7 and focus 1st gen:good:
Click to expand...
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for hd7? i see...

hackarchive said:
this will be possible atleast for hd7 and focus 1st gen:good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just wondering... Where did you get your info on that ? Your HD7 and focus besides the display and case is almost like every other Windows Phone 7 device (standard hardware across all models).
Even though it has been clearly said by Microsoft that NO 1st or 2nd gen devices will get the update you seem to think the HD7 will.
Maybe it's me but, I'm smelling a little BS here....
Unless Microsoft says that they will be updating or DFT decides to dig in, your not getting a upgrade on any first or 2nd gen device and that includes the HD7 and Focus.

The problem with the kernel is not that it by itself would need that much power to run but rather that they would have to develop loads of drivers for it to work, as they would not be able to use those that already exist for Windows CE.
A bigger problem might be the Bootloader process. The NT Kernel at least on ARM requires an UEFI firmware which is likely to be pretty different from the bootloaders we currently have on our phones.
So the steps would be:
- Develop an UEFI firmware for current WP7 hardware (HSPL needed because it would replace the old bootloader) - including UEFI hardware drivers
- Develop drivers for the chipsets from scratch
- Find out on how many hardware characteristics Microsoft chose to rely that are simply not there on old devices
I'm not saying that it is impossible to do or that it won't ever be done but I guess until it's done almost no one will still be using such an old phone.

RE:
DavidinCT said:
Hahaha. If you read ANY PLACE on this site, it says to SEARCH before posting.
You must not know how to read. This has been a major topic of discussion over every Windows Phone 7 related site.
It does not take a geek or loser like yourself just to spend 2 min reading before posting a subject that has been posted everywhere.
The new upgrade goes to the NT kernal over the WinCE one. That does take more horsepower than current devices can do. It will have native support for C++ and a lot of other modern tech (NFC and others). The current chipset in current devices will not be able to handle it with reasonable performance. As I understand it.
IF some hacker was to create a rom for a current device, it would not support more than 1/2 of the OS and the performace would not be anything worth using unless they stripped everything out.
It's really questionable if a hacker will be able to get it working on current devices and what type of performance. If you really want to know the changes, it's a little long but, it really shows what it can and will do...
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Windows-Phone/Summit
It's the full streaming event, and it's almost 2 hours but, it's impressive and I can see why they went this route.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Helooo???
Low end WP8 devices will have lower HW specs than some current WP7 devices.
WP8 could run very well on a focus s or HD7 or any other.
There will be custom roms for many current devices, there are many smart guys here that I'm sure will try to do this. Let's hope they will manage to do it.

WP8 has a limited life too?

One line in the article is scary. A nightmare revisited perhaps? That "WP8 will be supported for at least the next 18 months."
That is what a year and half? MS is known to release an update anyways not before a couple of years. So does that mean that the support of the "flagship" WP8 devices terminate even before the devices are launched?
LUMIA 900 is perhaps an example that we should be careful??
Your views?
Sent from my RaZr NeXus.

circleofomega said:
..."WP8 will be supported for at least the next 18 months." ....
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Hmm.... Only Connor MacLeod, the Highlander is immortal. The lifetime of the rest stuff (including me, you and Windows) - is limited. Are you going to live forever?

You currently don't get any guarantees for longer support on any mobile platform. Apple does support it's devices longer but it is not guaranteed in any way and the iPad 1 is left out of iOS 6 although it is not that old.
The 18 months was also a plan Google announced on the IO conference last year which many manufacturers failed to live up to.
My guess (according to several interviews with Microsoft employees) is that they will not do a change to the system that goes so deep again anytime soon (where would they move as they now switched to the Desktop OSs underpinnings?). It still is a given that at some point in the future your device again won't be getting updates.
The question you are posing is if those 18 months could mean that if I buy a WP8 in 16 months it might get left behind 2 months later. Those 18 months which are guaranteed are based on the age of the device (when it was first released). A Lumia 900 kind of situation should therefore not happen again. That your device might no longer receive updates before your contract is up might happen, given that you might a) not buy the device the day it comes to market and b) the contract is regularly 6 months longer than the time frame for updates.

Where is the source with the original quote? A quick Google gives me the quote: "Microsoft will support Windows Phone 8 devices [with updates] for at least 18 months" (My emphasis).
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-will-offer-ota-updates-18-months-of-support/

bbobeckyj said:
Where is the source with the original quote? A quick Google gives me the quote: "Microsoft will support Windows Phone 8 devices [with updates] for at least 18 months" (My emphasis).
http://www.technobuffalo.com/compan...-will-offer-ota-updates-18-months-of-support/
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I can kind of see what your saying but then you could argue (especially Google) that not many devices actually get support for 18 months, So if you go and buy a new WP in Oct/Nov then it will be supported for 18 months. Unlike new Android phones, Microsoft is not fragmentated (not including WP7.8). This means ALL first gen WP8 will be supprted. New Android phones come out on a weekly basis and is NEVER guranteed to get the latest Android update (unless its a Nexus).
You could argue both ways...
I believe Microsoft will be looking after 1st Gen WP8 early adoptors, but with things changing in the world of tech who knows?
I will probably get a new WP8 and a WinRT tablet to work alongside my Xbox and my Laptop... that is an ecosystem that not even Apple can rival!

mafu6 said:
I can kind of see what your saying but then you could argue (especially Google) that not many devices actually get support for 18 months, So if you go and buy a new WP in Oct/Nov then it will be supported for 18 months. Unlike new Android phones, Microsoft is not fragmentated (not including WP7.8). This means ALL first gen WP8 will be supprted. New Android phones come out on a weekly basis and is NEVER guranteed to get the latest Android update (unless its a Nexus).
You could argue both ways...
I believe Microsoft will be looking after 1st Gen WP8 early adoptors, but with things changing in the world of tech who knows?
I will probably get a new WP8 and a WinRT tablet to work alongside my Xbox and my Laptop... that is an ecosystem that not even Apple can rival!
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Hmmm..when its android I don't fear much...for obvious reason that I can root it and flash the latest OS. Not so much so with WP8. For it, I only and only have to rely on MS.
So if they decide tomorrow that my device doesn't have the necessary hardware (deja vu?), I'm screwed...
That, was my fear...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

The chances of that happening are pretty slim.
WP8 got a huge update over WP7 (i do not use the term huge lightly), which made the incompatibility stuff a problem.
Unless some huge leap in technology happens in the nest 18 months or so, we won't see this kind of problem again. It is highly likely that current wp8 will run wp9.
I for one don't think hardware will advance at such quick rate in the coming years.

mafu6 said:
I can kind of see what your saying but then you could argue (especially Google) that not many devices actually get support for 18 months, So if you go and buy a new WP in Oct/Nov then it will be supported for 18 months. Unlike new Android phones, Microsoft is not fragmentated (not including WP7.8). This means ALL first gen WP8 will be supprted. New Android phones come out on a weekly basis and is NEVER guranteed to get the latest Android update (unless its a Nexus).
You could argue both ways...
I believe Microsoft will be looking after 1st Gen WP8 early adoptors, but with things changing in the world of tech who knows?
I will probably get a new WP8 and a WinRT tablet to work alongside my Xbox and my Laptop... that is an ecosystem that not even Apple can rival!
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Click to collapse
It's not an argument though is it. It's simply the facts.
Google doesn't support Devices for a variety of reasons - Not least of which is that it's freeware OS, and there are several hundred devices with new ones each week.
MS have said that they will support devices for 18 months, and this is achievable, there will be maybe 50 of them by the time 18 months is up, and the manufacturer (and so in the end user) pays for the OS.
circleofomega said:
Hmmm..when its android I don't fear much...for obvious reason that I can root it and flash the latest OS. Not so much so with WP8. For it, I only and only have to rely on MS.
So if they decide tomorrow that my device doesn't have the necessary hardware (deja vu?), I'm screwed...
That, was my fear...
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These type of comments mystify me. Of the following announced WP8 features which ones were you expecting to get on your current phone?
Multi-core processor support
1280x768 and 1280x720 screens
removable MicroSD cards
NFC wireless sharing

This is about indervidual devices not Windows Phone 8 itself! They are saying that from when a phone comes out you will have at least 18 months support (far more than anyone else promises) this does not mean that WP8 will be chopped up like 7! They switched kernel that's why you cant upgrade and they did that to be sure they have last ability.

U miss the point.
18 months is fine if it was Android. But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade.
But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update...(how they perform is all together another argument).
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

Given that Microsoft is not going to change the Kernel again (where too - they are now running the Desktop OS on mobile devices) at least the community here will likely be able to provide those updates. Given that the original Developer phones like the LG panther have been able to receive at least OS updates using the CAB-Sender-Method this might be an option going forward.
But if it's ok for you to have the new version of the OS running in a kinda working way, with kinda weird problems and kinda annoying glitches it might be an option to go with Android. I'm running CM9.1 on my SGS2 which works without problems but it's one of their stable releases and they recently decided to ditch support for older devices with the Snapdragon S1 (which is also found in the 1st Gen WP7 devices). There are still ports around for those devices but with those it is like I mentioned above (glitches, problems, etc.)
In the end smartphones age quickly and at some point it is not really viable keeping them updated even though more than 18 months are definitely doable (but as was mentioned: no one guarantees you that it is a good experience).

circleofomega said:
U miss the point.
18 months is fine if it was Android. But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade.
But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update...(how they perform is all together another argument).
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Click to collapse
If your were responding to me, then I miss the point again. I literally don't understand most of what you've said or the meaning - sorry.
Do Android phones get official updates 18 months after release? Not even all of the new release Android phones have the latest OS version.
What does "But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade." mean? WP7 was released 2 years before WP8 will be released and all current WP7 phones will get WP7.8 which itself is not being released until after WP8 and may not be until next year, so that's well past 18 months. Also MS have stated that WP7 was a stop gap until WP8 was done, so a major OS change is not going to happen.
"But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update" Which phones and OS are you talking about? Apple don't have the latest OS on their oldest Iphones, and new Android phones don't all have the latest OS either. You've really confused me...
Are you complaining that MS will only guarantee to support all devices for only 18 months, while lauding the other OS makers who do less) because XDevs try to do it for them?

bbobeckyj said:
If your were responding to me, then I miss the point again. I literally don't understand most of what you've said or the meaning - sorry.
Do Android phones get official updates 18 months after release? Not even all of the new release Android phones have the latest OS version.
What does "But WP8? From their track record, 18 months qualifies for one upgrade." mean? WP7 was released 2 years before WP8 will be released and all current WP7 phones will get WP7.8 which itself is not being released until after WP8 and may not be until next year, so that's well past 18 months. Also MS have stated that WP7 was a stop gap until WP8 was done, so a major OS change is not going to happen.
"But not like other devices where even first gen phones enjoy the very last update" Which phones and OS are you talking about? Apple don't have the latest OS on their oldest Iphones, and new Android phones don't all have the latest OS either. You've really confused me...
Are you complaining that MS will only guarantee to support all devices for only 18 months, while lauding the other OS makers who do less) because XDevs try to do it for them?
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Wasn't exactly talking to u...but since u replied:
Yes..no other OS supports older devices. Be it iOS or Android. BUT, having said that, it is as easy as turning your computer on when it comes to updating those devices..
It is..er..unethical to an extent...but who cares...I have the latest OS.
BUT, but...when it comes to WP, there is no way out. The fate of THAT device hangs in thin air. If MS decides to pull the plug, game's over.
So even though iPhones and Androids of the world see an (unofficial) update. Not so much so a WP device....
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

circleofomega said:
Wasn't exactly talking to u...but since u replied:
Yes..no other OS supports older devices. Be it iOS or Android. BUT, having said that, it is as easy as turning your computer on when it comes to updating those devices..
It is..er..unethical to an extent...but who cares...I have the latest OS.
BUT, but...when it comes to WP, there is no way out. The fate of THAT device hangs in thin air. If MS decides to pull the plug, game's over.
So even though iPhones and Androids of the world see an (unofficial) update. Not so much so a WP device....
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am really confused by this post. What you are saying is that because MS make PC's and you can update a PC they should update ll there phones forever even though nobody else does? You claim its ok for android to do it because we can hack the updates on? How would that be diff from doing it to wp??? Name me one WP that is not on the latest OS version! There isn't one.
How is MS supporting your device for its life span a bad thing esp when Android comes out outdated most of the time yet that's fine. How is having a guarantee of updates leaving you out in the air????
Total garbage so do us a favor and engage the brain instead of just being a hate monger Android fan boi

lumpaywk said:
I am really confused by this post. What you are saying is that because MS make PC's and you can update a PC they should update ll there phones forever even though nobody else does? You claim its ok for android to do it because we can hack the updates on? How would that be diff from doing it to wp??? Name me one WP that is not on the latest OS version! There isn't one.
How is MS supporting your device for its life span a bad thing esp when Android comes out outdated most of the time yet that's fine. How is having a guarantee of updates leaving you out in the air????
Total garbage so do us a favor and engage the brain instead of just being a hate monger Android fan boi
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U got me all wrong my friend. I'm just saying, giving it a date "18 months" was a little scary.
Secondly I don't like Android anymore and love WP8.
MS isn't supporting my device for the lifetime and that's my worry...
Hope I'm clear now...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

circleofomega said:
U got me all wrong my friend. I'm just saying, giving it a date "18 months" was a little scary.
Secondly I don't like Android anymore and love WP8.
MS isn't supporting my device for the lifetime and that's my worry...
Hope I'm clear now...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
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How long do you keep your phone? I heard of 2 year contracts but who actually keeps it for that time without buying out? Even if so you get guarantee of 18 months not a maximum of 18months most likely you will get longer but they have to cover themselves. Also as you said before MS is more prone to big updates hence a big one each year with a smaller in the middle meaning that you should get your 18 month update that should last until the 2 years is up before the next is out anyway. I think that covers most life of phones as it covers most contract lenghs and is far beyond what the competition is doing.

circleofomega said:
Wasn't exactly talking to u...but since u replied:
Yes..no other OS supports older devices. Be it iOS or Android. BUT, having said that, it is as easy as turning your computer on when it comes to updating those devices..
It is..er..unethical to an extent...but who cares...I have the latest OS.
BUT, but...when it comes to WP, there is no way out. The fate of THAT device hangs in thin air. If MS decides to pull the plug, game's over.
So even though iPhones and Androids of the world see an (unofficial) update. Not so much so a WP device....
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
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Click to collapse
WP have unofficial custom roms. The only reason that IOS and Android have more is because more people are making them, and you can't blame MS for that, especially while they guarantee to provide official updates.

bbobeckyj said:
WP have unofficial custom roms. The only reason that IOS and Android have more is because more people are making them, and you can't blame MS for that, especially while they guarantee to provide official updates.
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Oh my goooood....I'm misunderstood thrice in a row...IM NOT BLAMING MS...it's just a question..."IS" WP8 live short too??? Its a question... anyway
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

circleofomega said:
Oh my goooood....I'm misunderstood thrice in a row...IM NOT BLAMING MS...it's just a question..."IS" WP8 live short too??? Its a question... anyway
Sent from my DROID RaZr.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then the answer is no, it is not to short.

lumpaywk said:
Then the answer is no, it is not to short.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks.. that is the reply I'm looking for...
Sent from my DROID RaZr.

[Q] Can the Nexus 6 be a 3-year phone? Or will ARMv7 hit a wall before then?

I'm interested in the Nexus 6 but concerned about a support dropoff (i.e., no Android N, O) within 2 years due to ARMv7. I feel like Moore's-Law-wise, phones now can go 3 years, assuming you don't always need the latest and greatest for gaming. I would keep using my Note 2 for another 6-8 months if it weren't for the complete stoppage in OS updates. (I might try CyanogenMod but I personally would like to avoid that if possible.) I would not have said the same thing about my previous smartphones, which began to struggle with webpage rendering after about 18 months.
For anyone who might know more about ARMv7 vs. ARMv8, what are the likely implications regarding the Android roadmap? Is this a major shift that will accelerate obsoletion of today's devices, or nothing special? I understand 32- vs. 64-bit by itself isn't really a huge deal, but I'm more concerned about the larger ARM picture. Thanks in advance.
(BTW I actually have a different but analogous concern about the iPhone 6, which I'm also eyeballing, having only 1GB RAM. I know it performs great today, but if the 6S and 7 have 2+ GB then Apple might drop support inside 2 years. But I understand that's not for this forum.)

FYI, the iPhone 6 has RAM issues already, so I think performance will be pretty sucky on it a year or 2 from now since it is already out of RAM in some situations.
As for Android and the architecture change I really think it is anyones guess right now and even Google themselves may not have yet decided on an answer for sure. On the one hand Google has to keep backwards compatibility for at least 1 more major OS release because of N6 support, and with the release dates the N6 will *probably* have support for 2 more OS releases as far as architecture compatibility. But 3 years? And with the changes already beginning to take place on chipset architecture? IDK, but I think that in 3 major OS releases from now we may be looking at a complete swap to the new 64-bit architecture and instruction sets. I suppose it may be possible that custom ROMs will get the newer OSes booting on old instruction sets, so the Nexus 6 and older models may yet have a long life in them still, but as far as official builds from Google I dont really know.

I'm of the opinion that we're getting pretty close to seeing a split in Android, and the N6 may end up providing the impetus. With 64bit looming for the next Nexus phone, I think it would make sense for Google to take more of a liberal Linux approach, and support both 32bit and 64bit processors. Devices are now at a point where they have more than enough under the hood - RAM, ROM, GPU, etc - so there's no real reason why Google should persist in taking a linear, one architecture approach to mobile development, especially with the Nexus line. I feel that 3 (possibly 4)year AOSP support windows should be viable from this point forward, and other than extreme greed (something Google hasn't displayed yet), there seems to be no reason to drop 32bit support.
In fact, the Nexus 9 is 64bit, while the N6 is only 32bit. Both run 5.0 exceptionally well, so we may already have some semblance of an answer as to what Google's plan is - a relatively low resource UI, that runs on multiple architectures. Of course the carrier update paths will be different, as their primary goal is to generate revenue, but I think Google itself may begin employing longer support windows for its own devices. ?

IMO Google needs to take the opportunity of unification and start off with a clean slate 64bit support across the board with a minimum ram required of at least 6Gig
They should require all manufacture to install vanilla android across all devices so that the experience is the same on all devices in order to compete for a better Android Experience against Apple
Manufacture can have an option for consumers to download their launcher from the playstore and niche smartphones like the note 4 should work ootb with vanilla android
It's interesting that the iPhone outsells android in app purchase yet they sell less phones over all and the biggest issue why is because of user experience not being fluid between computer tablet and phone like with an iPhone iPad and mac laptop or desktop
Google needs to take a mature step in structuring user experience

One more thing since Samsung is loosing so much money if they were to initiate the full real vanilla android experience without TouchWiz on all Samsung products including all current devices by ota update removing all bloatware I think they will be the new Google with a Samsung label and consumers will flock to them I mean they have all the gear to be able to make the android experience real and smooth they will just be supplying the hardware which is their main business anyway I also believe that they should include TouchWiz launcher in the playstore