Is it just me or has the support for this phone by devs increased an insane amount since July of last year? I remember there were only 3 or 4 roms available now there's 20! Just think it's amazing what overseas sales and price drops have done for this phone as it reaches its birthday in April (I think). Go devs!
Sent from my Incredible S
so true !!!
I agree completely.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
And we all love it!!!
good to know
Hi all I'm new, i have to make a few posts before i can be allowed to post in the android development, it kinda sucks cause all i wanna do is thanks the Virtuous team for bringins out Quattro lol
I too agree. Its Incredible to see devs supporting this device. Thanks a lot Dev's. We love you.
i wish i could get ics with sense
kensheen said:
i wish i could get ics with sense
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes, sense 3.5 to be exact
Maybe it will. Just let them finnish the stock ICS rom without bugs. All other will follow.
The IncS is still a margianl phone regarding ROM and other stuff, compared to the Desire HD and Sensation - but it's going the right way ;-)
agree!!! love my Incredible S more!!
jkolner said:
The IncS is still a margianl phone regarding ROM and other stuff, compared to the Desire HD and Sensation - but it's going the right way ;-)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's true, but we have official CM7 (and CM9, hopefully), official MIUI, then some fantastic Sense ROMs (Virtuous, ARHD, Nik's, Energy...), and ICS is just around corner... Not to mention kernels like Tiamat and Lord Clockan's (ported, though). Thats more than enough, if you ask me.
We maybe don't have quantity, but quality is there!
DragonDios said:
Hi all I'm new, i have to make a few posts before i can be allowed to post in the android development, it kinda sucks cause all i wanna do is thanks the Virtuous team for bringins out Quattro lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm new, and here for the same reason as you. The Virtuous team did an
song job and bringing us the first truly usable ICS rom!
Dev's are champion
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
Related
Hey guys,
Thanks to Paul O'Brien over at MoDaCo we now have a full system+recovery dump of the Galaxy Nexus running Ice Cream Sandwich.
http://android.modaco.com/page/news/_/android/04-nov-icl23d-galaxy-nexus-boot-recovery-r51
This is really cool.
Wow, hopefully now developers can create ICS inspired custom roms. Cheers!
there's like 10 of these over at the dhd section lol
No ... This is a system dump from the phone ... Not an SDK dump ... This good ...
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using XDA App
Also heard that ics will be coming to incredible s, but after a few months.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
LOSTLOGIC89 said:
Also heard that ics will be coming to incredible s, but after a few months.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you hear this?
These are the files you need to port a device. They need to be altered severely to run on the incs. Extreme development knowledge is needed to make use of this. However a developer could grab bits and pieces from it if they have greater knowledge in one area than another.
The ics update will be coming to this and many other htc devices as stated yesterday to myself in a bell store by an htc rep.
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA App
but it won't come anytime this year, probably end of Q1 or Q2 2012.
talira said:
The ics update will be coming to this and many other htc devices as stated yesterday to myself in a bell store by an htc rep.
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i've learned to never trust and believe what HTC says. ICS? they haven't even brought Sense 3.0 to INC S
baste07 said:
i've learned to never trust and believe what HTC says
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
this apply to other manufacturer
and just saw this @ engadget
chriscsh said:
this apply to other manufacturer
and just saw this @ engadget
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As usual, doesn't have incredible s inside the namelist...
incredible s is abandoned already i think lol
if it comes to sensation xl, with has almost same specs, just better cpu, it will be for sure ported to incredible s (if htc doesn't release it officially)
Jed2191 said:
Where did you hear this?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't recall it but there was a list on the net .
Just google it, from what I can recall there was HTC sensation,incredible s ,and others including sgs2 ect...
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
http://m.intomobile.com/2011/11/07/htc-all-our-highend-phones-get-ice-cream-sandwich-updates/
Right now, it looks like HTC are dissing this phone after only 6 months since it was released...
———
Anyway, is there anyone out there willing to give this a try? Would be really cool to try ICS out ^^
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA App
Splux said:
http://m.intomobile.com/2011/11/07/htc-all-our-highend-phones-get-ice-cream-sandwich-updates/
Right now, it looks like HTC are dissing this phone after only 6 months since it was released...
———
Anyway, is there anyone out there willing to give this a try? Would be really cool to try ICS out ^^
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You guys are reading into this way too much.
All they did was give a few obvious ones that would get the upgrade. They never said the rest of their products weren't.
What developers can do with this?
Sent from my GT-S5830 using xda premium
scoobysnacks said:
You guys are reading into this way too much.
All they did was give a few obvious ones that would get the upgrade. They never said the rest of their products weren't.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Let me quote myself:
"Right now[...]"
You see? I'm talking about what they've said so far, but what'll happen in the future; sorry, I can't tell and therefore I won't do anything else then hope that HTC will give us an official update to 4.0.
But from what Google said when they showed 4.0, I think that it'll come to the IncS. Sometime.
And to your last part; no, they didn't.
"We’re continuing to assess our product portfolio, so stay tuned for more updates on device upgrades, timing and other details about HTC and Ice Cream Sandwich."
From the same link that I linked in my previous post. So, I'm fully aware of the fact that this only seems to be a preliminary statement from HTC.
Is there any custom ICS roms? sorry for sounding stupid but I cant find any.
Seems like there are 2 available and the developers have moved away from xda. One is made by Pirateghost and called Rum Float: http://blog.androidninjas.com/rom-dev/htc-vivid/rum-float/
The other is made by WildChild and you have to register to see the vivid section here: http://www.wcxxperia-nce.com/
Anyone tried these custome ROMS?
Hey, has anyone tried these custome ROMS, I would like to get something without AT&T apps included......
wildchild has a generic one that has all the att stuff removed
maddie01 said:
Hey, has anyone tried these custome ROMS, I would like to get something without AT&T apps included......
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
both of them roms will get you no att bloatware...
i personally use wildchilds generic build as it has working wifi teathering
I have PG's Rum Float Beta4, updated from Beta2. No bloat and ofcourse rooted, really like it.
He has his own web site, if you search for Rum Float, it should pop up.
Sent from my Rum Float Vivid using Tapatalk.
randong said:
both of them roms will get you no att bloatware...
i personally use wildchilds generic build as it has working wifi teathering
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm on the ATT build with working tethering.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
a40dayflud818 said:
I'm on the ATT build with working tethering.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sweet i guess you used the work around posted in his fourm and it worked
i just use his generic cuz it works right off the bat
Hi xda,
It would seem that I've jumped into this a little late, but what happened to make all the cooks leave xda and ignore the Vivid, Velocity etc.
Sorry but I've been away from xda for about 12 months while living in Blackberry-land.
I'd really like an ICS ROM for my Velocity without HTC's bastard 'Sense' bloatness.
Also - is getting root access to the Velocity as easy as it was for the HD2?
Cheers;
shayla28 said:
Hi xda,
It would seem that I've jumped into this a little late, but what happened to make all the cooks leave xda and ignore the Vivid, Velocity etc.
Sorry but I've been away from xda for about 12 months while living in Blackberry-land.
I'd really like an ICS ROM for my Velocity without HTC's bastard 'Sense' bloatness.
Also - is getting root access to the Velocity as easy as it was for the HD2?
Cheers;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
CM9 port is being worked on. Check the dev thread. Other than that, there are Sense ICS ROM's available, just not many here.. at this point.
As far as what happened, no need to stir up bad memories Look through some of the threads from last month and you'll figure it out. In the mean time, follow the golden rule, and the rules of the forum, and maybe they'll start trickling back in
homeslice976 said:
CM9 port is being worked on. Check the dev thread. Other than that, there are Sense ICS ROM's available, just not many here.. at this point...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I will be stuck to the Dev thread like glue today; sorry Council, there will be no IT movement today! The systems engineer just got a new toy
Everyone contribute and help test and get logcats in!
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
resin99 said:
... One is made by Pirateghost and called Rum Float: http://blog.androidninjas.com/rom-dev/htc-vivid/rum-float/...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is anyone able to upload a screenshot of this? I'd be really interested to know if there is a sense 3.5 or 3.6 running on top. If not - hells yeah PirateGhost! I hate Sense!!!
Cheers;
Sense 3.6
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
I am using Wild Childs at&t build of ics. It is awesome! He did an outstanding job with the rom. Silky smooth, looks like stock without the bloat! Plus with the mods here in the forums like extended menu, signal icon changer, and some other mods you can't beat it. This phone rocks hard!
shayla28 said:
Is anyone able to upload a screenshot of this? I'd be really interested to know if there is a sense 3.5 or 3.6 running on top. If not - hells yeah PirateGhost! I hate Sense!!!
Cheers;
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then why an HTC? Just curious..
Because the majority of samsungs and other brands embarrass android and apple still feels outdated and something for social status?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
homeslice976 said:
Then why an HTC? Just curious..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
IMO its the lesser of all evils. Every brand has their own "skin". So even if you prefer AOSP, you might as well get the brand with the best looking and best functioning skin. Of course there is the nexus phones, but those aren't for everyone.
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using xda premium
come at me bro said:
Because the majority of samsungs and other brands embarrass android and apple still feels outdated and something for social status?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I just don't know that I could talk myself into the investment of a device that runs software that I hated, with the possibility of not be able to change it. Granted there are things being worked on now (CM9), but let's be real, this phone was released in November and to this point we haven't seen anything Sense-less (for reasons beyond the dev's control - just got kernel source 10 days ago fcs), it would be very tough for me to buy the device at this point if I hated Sense . I don't know how long shayla's had theirs though...
Anyone else waiting for this to drop since the beginning of April?
Awaiting cm9 as well as an explosion of dev input. counting down the days to get stoked!
itsbeertimenow said:
Anyone else waiting for this to drop since the beginning of April?
Awaiting cm9 as well as an explosion of dev input. counting down the days to get stoked!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah I'm running icecoldsandwich now but I'm really looking forward to getting a fully working ROM on my phone that has no bugs
I heard that ics update will come first for Sensation, Sensation XE,Sensation 4G and Sensation XL...
Have this devices already got the update to ics?
bob8x said:
I heard that ics update will come first for Sensation, Sensation XE,Sensation 4G and Sensation XL...
Have this devices already got the update to ics?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes ICS has been released for these devices.
Well, I've found this on the web
HTC has been working hard to get its Ice Cream Sandwich upgrades ready, and we’re excited to announce that our first round of ICS upgrades will roll out by the end of March for the HTC Sensation, HTC Sensation 4G and HTC Sensation XE, followed soon there after by the HTC Sensation XL.
In addition, we can confirm Ice Cream Sandwich upgrades will be coming later this year to the HTC Rezound, HTC Vivid, HTC Amaze 4G, HTC EVO 3D, HTC EVO Design 4G, HTC Incredible S, HTC Desire S and HTC Desire HD. Stay tuned for more updates on Ice Cream Sandwich releases in the coming weeks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't find it on the htc's blog: maybe they edited the webpage...
But if that's is true it's better to not expect ICS on our phone very soon...
tpbklake said:
Yes ICS has been released for these devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bob8x said:
Well, I've found this on the web
I couldn't find it on the htc's blog: maybe they edited the webpage...
But if that's is true it's better to not expect ICS on our phone very soon...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just go check the Sensation forums here on XDA.
Well there were articles back in December and january saying the incs would receive ics in early April..... I'm on a flashing hold til this is released.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
i was really looking forward to the OTA ICS
but now icecoldsandwich is just amazing, i really done care too much. I wish it would so we can iron out all the tiny issues we have but not really high on my list.
turtle* said:
i was really looking forward to the OTA ICS
but now icecoldsandwich is just amazing, i really done care too much. I wish it would so we can iron out all the tiny issues we have but not really high on my list.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm using IceColdSandwich as well, but having camcorder working is a big deal!
Just 2 days ago I was burning inside for not be able to record my drunk friends xD
IMHO official ICS= camcorder working, I can't figure out what else could mean...
I can't wait for the official release too! One of nu friends had the official ICS on his Nexus and it's amazing, just amazing.
Last few days I'm checking for the ICS update every hour...
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using XDA
Vaxx93 said:
I can't wait for the official release too! One of nu friends had the official ICS on his Nexus and it's amazing, just amazing.
Last few days I'm checking for the ICS update every hour...
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do here everybody know that our official ICS dint look like in Nexus / Icecoldsandwich?
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
Silversniper said:
Do here everybody know that our official ICS dint look like in Nexus / Icecoldsandwich?
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah no one really wants to use the official release but the roms will at last be bug free on ice cream sandwich
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA
incrediblealex said:
Yeah no one really wants to use the official release but the roms will at last be bug free on ice cream sandwich
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hahah , yeah no one will use the stock one xD , we are all waiting for Cyanogenmod 9 or some similar port of the full compatible ICS
bob8x said:
I'm using IceColdSandwich as well, but having camcorder working is a big deal!
Just 2 days ago I was burning inside for not be able to record my drunk friends xD
IMHO official ICS= camcorder working, I can't figure out what else could mean...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So far you can use some third party apps for make the camcorder working. Videocam illusion works fine for me.
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA
For me I'm waiting for the stability.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
Imp0stoR said:
Hahah , yeah no one will use the stock one xD , we are all waiting for Cyanogenmod 9 or some similar port of the full compatible ICS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's the big difference between a stock rom and a custom rom like Cyanogenmod9?
Vaxx93 said:
What's the big difference between a stock rom and a custom rom like Cyanogenmod9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cm9 will be much more customizable..plus stock rom will have sense,while cm9 will be just plain ics
sent from my ics device
Vaxx93 said:
What's the big difference between a stock rom and a custom rom like Cyanogenmod9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The stock ROM from HTC will have all of the appropriate drivers for wifi, bluetooth, camera, cam-corder, etc, so those apps should work better on. HTC doesn't have to release the source code for these drivers.
CM9 and AOSP based ROMS generally have generic device drivers that don't always work correctly or as well as the stock ROMs.
tpbklake said:
The stock ROM from HTC will have all of the appropriate drivers for wifi, bluetooth, camera, cam-corder, etc, so those apps should work better on. HTC doesn't have to release the source code for these drivers.
CM9 and AOSP based ROMS generally have generic device drivers that don't always work correctly or as well as the stock ROMs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Forgot to mention cm9 will be 90-120 mb where as ics with sense will be 350 - 400 with all the HTC crap.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
If cm9 runs as aswell as cm7 it will be really good
Sent from my Incredible S using XDA
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805658
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
Your signature is not big enough.
naathaanb96 said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1805658
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure if Virtuous team will do the same for IncS since HTC has to release kernel source sooner or later.
justaway2 said:
Your signature is not big enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This
justaway2 said:
Your signature is not big enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not is it ?
I think they are saying it is.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
FallenSuisydal said:
I think they are saying it is.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, sarcasm, always gets you when its written instead of spoken
Back on topic though, how many kernel devs do we have here?
if we have no one, I'm sure some of us including me will have a crack at it
Sent from my Nexus 7
FallenSuisydal said:
I think they are saying it is.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
haha i know dude i was being sarcastic
if I remember right, l0st.prophet already developed a kernel some time ago. so i guess he has the knowledge.
but i am pretty sure that htc releases the kernel sources when the desire s OTA update is finished. then all updates are done (the bad DHD news were not bad news in this case so far)
The DHD news is bad I think, because we are only marginally better specced/newer than them, so does that mean we only just scarped in the requirements for ICS and therefore may possibly be overlooked for JB? Not saying we WILL be, just that our phone will be the same age as the DHD is now when they start rolling out the JB OTA to phones like Sensation and One phones
markj338 said:
The DHD news is bad I think, because we are only marginally better specced/newer than them, so does that mean we only just scarped in the requirements for ICS and therefore may possibly be overlooked for JB? Not saying we WILL be, just that our phone will be the same age as the DHD is now when they start rolling out the JB OTA to phones like Sensation and One phones
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Personally I don't think HTC will give us JB. So we're probably on our own this time. But if the rumor that "JB is not so much different from ICS" is true, then we're likely to get a port, at least AOSP/AOKP.
itandy said:
Personally I don't think HTC will give us JB. So we're probably on our own this time. But if the rumor that "JB is not so much different from ICS" is true, then we're likely to get a port, at least AOSP/AOKP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nik is working on one already. just one more error to get past boot ani!
Is it the audio flinger again.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
itandy said:
Personally I don't think HTC will give us JB. So we're probably on our own this time. But if the rumor that "JB is not so much different from ICS" is true, then we're likely to get a port, at least AOSP/AOKP.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats what I honestly thought with ICS, so we shouldn't start making assumptions I think
Yeah, the Ice Cold rom was made stable and nearly perfect before the ICS OTA was released
BUT, this time, Lord Clockan, the dev of Ice Cold, might not be with us, because unfortunately for us he sold his DHD when he bought his HOX
---------- Post added at 10:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 AM ----------
FallenSuisydal said:
Is it the audio flinger again.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does anyone know if Nik has asked the CM devs from Desire S Nexxx and NK111, some of the other devs? IIRC it was superkid or nk111 who fixed the audio flinger
There isn't a lot of point to this for devices that officially have Android 4.0 (saga, vivo e.t.c) as HTC will have to release kernel sources to comply with GPL. The vision and ace will not be getting an official 3.0 kernel, therefore no source, therefore the need for a port.
As far as Nik's JB port he is having an issue which others seem to have encountered but we are unable to get any information on how it was fixed, appears to be a scheduler issue.
This post belongs in general.
l0st.prophet said:
There isn't a lot of point to this for devices that officially have Android 4.0 (saga, vivo e.t.c) as HTC will have to release kernel sources to comply with GPL. The vision and ace will not be getting an official 3.0 kernel, therefore no source, therefore the need for a port.
As far as Nik's JB port he is having an issue which others seem to have encountered but we are unable to get any information on how it was fixed, appears to be a scheduler issue.
This post belongs in general.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its part of development ?
and yeah i think thats the problem nik was having
FallenSuisydal said:
Is it the audio flinger again.
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yea I think its.
or it was?
kylechen said:
Yea I think its.
or it was?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think he fixed the audio flinger
virtuous team working hard
but i believe htc will relase kernel sources soon or later
but anyone have an idea when ?
MARCO2349 said:
virtuous team working hard
but i believe htc will relase kernel sources soon or later
but anyone have an idea when ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Should be within 70 days now that ota finished.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
CyanogenMod just released CM10 STABLE for a lot of devices...Just in case anyone's interested, maybe there's a phone in this list that the files, with a few tweaks, could work on our Inc S...
http://get.cm/?type=stable
It would be cool to finaly have a perfect AOSP rom! :fingers-crossed:
But can't find the version of vivo in the list?
Sent from my HTC Incredible S using xda app-developers app
erika0806 said:
But can't find the version of vivo in the list?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No Vivo isn't in the "Stable" list, last official CM version for Vivo is 7. something...
So yeah the reason i posted is for someone to try and use maybe HTC One's rom and see if it could be reworked for Inc S.
We already have CM10 build with us. But we have one huge roadblock, we don't have asop kernel to run this ROM.
I think this post should have been in general section and not in development section.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda app-developers app
kidpaddle45 said:
No Vivo isn't in the "Stable" list, last official CM version for Vivo is 7. something...
So yeah the reason i posted is for someone to try and use maybe HTC One's rom and see if it could be reworked for Inc S.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
One S cannot simply be reworked to work with our phone. It has entirely different hardware. Not like it shares a processor or anything
@di said:
We already have CM10 build with us. But we have one huge roadblock, we don't have asop kernel to run this ROM.
I think this post should have been in general section and not in development section.
Sent from my Incredible S using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you're thinking well. No 7x30 devices have official support for CM10 stable
We lost all our aosp devs months ago
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
itsbeertimenow said:
We lost all our aosp devs months ago
Sent from my Incredible S using xda premium
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah our cm maintainers have moved on too
btw CM10 stable is super fast and... stable
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
markj338 said:
Yeah our cm maintainers have moved on too
btw CM10 stable is super fast and... stable
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda app-developers app
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
does this mean we are not getting a stable cm9/10 ever?
optimus0208 said:
does this mean we are not getting a stable cm9/10 ever?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd say most likely that is the case. You will have to be happy with what we have at moment with possibility of some improvements of currents roms and maybe 1-2 more new roms but I doubt any stable cm9 or 10 will be available.
Evilus said:
I'd say most likely that is the case. You will have to be happy with what we have at moment with possibility of some improvements of currents roms and maybe 1-2 more new roms but I doubt any stable cm9 or 10 will be available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup, looks like the last dying moments of our phone..... finally age has caught up with our phone ... :angel: (RIP)
Today one of my colleague brought his newly bought Samsung note 2..... my phone looks like so puny and outdated in front of his phone
After that I realized, whatever update we may get, it will not be very smooth as new phones in market are.....
Anyways whatever may happen,I still love my phone and would keep it with me whether we would get CM 9/10 , JB etc or not....
three cheers for HTC incredible S :good::good::good:
@di said:
Yup, looks like the last dying moments of our phone..... finally age has caught up with our phone ... :angel: (RIP)
Today one of my colleague brought his newly bought Samsung note 2..... my phone looks like so puny and outdated in front of his phone
After that I realized, whatever update we may get, it will not be very smooth as new phones in market are.....
Anyways whatever may happen,I still love my phone and would keep it with me whether we would get CM 9/10 , JB etc or not....
three cheers for HTC incredible S :good::good::good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
dont know what its all about. im on latest sabra now and its as smooth as galaxy note 1. so its pretty good i think.