Database Develop

A Brief Letter to Microsoft

Hi all. I've decided to try and make some future Microsoft product "my idea", so I've submitted the following letter to them via billg [at] microsoft [dit] com. I just wanted to know if you guys had any input.
Flaming is sure to happen, and while I won't argue with you, I will probably wish your firstborn child is used as a shot put.
Dear Microsoft,
Lately I’ve been bombarded with commercial after commercial showing random people (and their self perceptions) stating that Windows 7 was their idea for one reason or another. I’m not completely disgusted by these or anything, but it started my mind on one of those winding roads a character in a story might have to take to get home, or to the girl, or to the climax, or… well I guess that is kind of repetitious – but the point is, I started thinking about the variety of Microsoft’s operating systems and the history they’ve had – rather, our history together.
I’ve used just about everything Microsoft has created… I started my computer “education” by soldering a few broken parts back together on a Commodore 64 I found in a dump, and then learning BASIC on it (the BASIC on the Commodore 64 was a variant created and licensed by Microsoft). Right now, I’m typing this in Microsoft Word, on a laptop that has Microsoft Windows Vista, being distracted by a cellular phone that runs Microsoft Windows Phone 6.5.
That was a mouthful when I read it aloud.
But the reason for this letter is not so much a history lesson, but a worry of what is to come. It seems the goal over there the past few years is some cross between being different and being more like Macintosh, or Google, or insert company name here, and I’m here to state that I don’t like the transformation the publicists and tech news sites are ranting and raving about.
A few examples?
- Most recently must be the attempt to remove the clipboard features from my phone. I say “attempt”, because I am willing to bet that will be brought back, either by you or some developers out there.
- Office 2007’s menu structure looks like someone tried to “make it better” and ruined it.
- Windows Vista and Windows 7 both look like some kind of cross-dressing Microsoft product who was “supposed to be a Mac”.
What happens when you become so close to the competition that nobody can tell you apart? Developers and IT teams may not like parts of Windows, but they are able adjust most of what they don’t like to work for them. If this path continues, and all of the contenders out there do the exact same thing, you’re really shooting yourselves in the collective foot by taking away your uniqueness.
I guess what I’m really trying to say is “different” does not equal “better”. Get back to your roots and make something that your current audience will buy. Put them above the “new customers” you’re trying to reach. It’s the same error that many companies make nowadays – neglecting the long time customers for some new ones. You end up losing great customers that way.
See, I am a man. There’s an expression stating that men marry women expecting them to be the same, and women marry men expecting that they’ll change. I feel like Microsoft is giving in to the women out there – the ones who complain about it being too hard to use or not pretty enough – and we have enough of that already. I’m not trying to hate on women out there, but maybe the movie Team America explained it best… something about assholes, dicks, and ******* (I won’t go into it, but watch the movie if you need an explanation). What we need is for Microsoft to be a **** again.
Good luck and happy creating,
(Name Removed)
P.S. This email was sent using Microsoft Outlook.
Thanks in advance for any feedback,
Drunk

oooh nice
so did they reply back and what did the email say?
anyway nice letter

no replies yet, but I just sent it last night.

Mad props for Team America reference =P

the whole my idea is just a commercial not a real deal imho
http://gizmodo.com/5477384/windows-7-was-my-idea-but-to-be-fair-i-dont-know-what-im-talking-about

I don't doubt that it is just a big marketing gimick, but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones.

I'm waiting for them to show the ads on TV which make the claim that W7 has fewer clicks so I can report it to the ASA.
Starting a program like solitaire with the mouse is either the same number (if you don't mind a 2 second wait) or one more click than XP/Vista.
As for getting to the network card properties that's a heck of a lot more clicks than Vista or XP.
W7 has some very well thought out features, but unfortunately it's got more that just aren't.
I hate MS for putting me in a position where I have to say I prefer Vista! Damn them! Damn them to Hades!
WM7 looks awful, and the restrictions they're putting on it make no user or business sense.
Office 2007 is appauling, what were they thinking? Why make an application which users have to refer to google in order to complete simple common tasks?

Don't expect a reply, Drunk, at least something that isn't just generically polite and thanking you for your thoughtful input.
You blended good points that resonate with much of their shrinking user base, made up partly by people who have no idea they're running Microsoft and also in part by people who are obsessed with modifying them, with that bit on genitals. They're not interested in us anymore, nor would they want to add a lot of attention to your letter by giving you something from them to paste on and spread around. They want to intercept people from buying the other phones with no regard to who's already buying their own phones, and you can't really blame them considering how fast they're still falling (down 4% last quarter) toward obscurity.
Just to offer myself as an example of others reading what you just posted and what may be on their own minds, considering I made two websites about the damn thing, I'd say I was a bonafide WinMo fanatic, one of the last expected to say adios, but I just did, a Nexus One, and not only will I continue to love and go nuts with it I will attempt to take others with me. It's brewing right here on XDA, the place you'd think would be the haven mainly for people who like to do what can mostly only be done exclusively with WinMo phones.
Actually I read this by mistake, forgot to get rid of all my WinMo rss feeds on Google Reader to which my phone's synced. Good read though, glad you posted it. So thanks.
But no matter how much rabble you rouse here nor what signs you wave in front of their Seattle office you won't stop this train, the general direction of which they've made it clear that they are taking with WP7 being mostly the opposite of what a lot of us want. They can't please everyone and they'd rather please would-otherwise-be customers of their competitors even at the expense of estranging themselves from part of their existing customers. On the bright side, in addition to there being other options (specifically the one I took), they claim they'll keep supporting existing versions of WinMo for at least a while, though not forever on new devices I don't think which will have unique hardware that if I heard correctly won't even have removable storage, not to mention any support for decentralized application distribution. You don't like the sound of what's coming but what's coming is in their opinion good for business and I suppose mine too. When you're already failing at this rate in such a critical time of penetrating a huge market with enormous potential that will be realized further and further every day, it's hard to come up with a dumb idea on how to do things differently. Not to mention I've seen quite a few extremists shrug off each new bit of bad news saying Whatever I'll still try it, and once they do, then Microsoft has got them for at least a long enough period of time to figure out how to keep them hooked while they intercept little bits of business from the others. Right now they're handing business away. It's a joke.
Making sure the likes of you and others on sites like XDA remain happy customers as they implement these drastic changes to their mobile operations is not high up on their to do list.
Just sayin'.
Doug

Can't say I don't agree with you on most of that. I honestly don't expect much of a reply... at most a blanket letter or something like that. I've also been working my way to other vendors. I've got some android variant on my TP2 now and Ubuntu on my laptop (both still dual boots, but it's a step that direction). I just didn't want it all to happen without my 2 cents' worth being thrown at them.
Thanks for stopping by.

I hear you man, I'm all about ranting. This and this in particular. Also this.
Take a look at that and mobilitydigest.com (basically the same with a less weird domain), you'd make a great writer. Perfect style, perfect background (impressive by the way), perfect fire in your belly. We can't yet offer you money but what we can give you is an audience. Let me know.

"but I wanted to explain that it looks like they are listening to people's ideas - just the wrong ones."
yeah with the whole win phone 7 seeming like being a copy of the features of org iphone sure sounds like they are getting bad advice

Anyone here in the I.T Field?

Hey guys, I just had some quick questions for anyone here that may be in the I.T field..
Im 23 years old and ive decided to go back to school.. so currently im working on an Associates Degree in I.T and trying to get my certs out of the way (CCENT, CCNA and CompTIA A+) But im not going to stop here... computers are a HUGE interest of mine.. I plan to continue on for a bachelors degree in I.T and possibly even a masters after that..
Basically for anyone in the field, do you like what you do? Do you find it interesting? How is the starting pay rate? I live near a major U.S City (NYC) And dont mind commuting back and fourth into the city for work... I was HOPING to start out making 50+ a year with just my associates and certs.. is this being unreasonable?? Someone told me that I.T professionals only start at like 30 grand a year which seems pretty scary to me
My ultimate goal is to be a Database Administrator and run / manage a companys servers / network, however I dont expect that with an Associates, most likely a bachelors+ would be needed??
Basically if anyone has any info about the field that theyd like to share with me, im open ears becaue im extremely interested in this career and any insight would be appreciated.. thank you

I would love to give you some advice, but I mainly work in the S.H.I.T fields
Scent phrum mie fone!

I have a Bachelor of Engineering in IT. There's such a vast range of areas in IT, that there's always something different or exciting, depending on what you like.
But regarding salaries...doesn't matter what qualifications you have, it's experience that people want, so yes you'll start pretty low if its your first real job in IT, unless you get lucky.

I have done quite a bit of studying for the career because I want to get into it myself. But usually the minimum requirement is a bachelors degree in that field. The starting salary for where I live is 80k which is a lot more than 30k if you ask me haha It's a wide career of choice and you'll always be needed somewhere. Just make sure you keep learning.

the_scotsman said:
(snip)
But regarding salaries...doesn't matter what qualifications you have, it's experience that people want, so yes you'll start pretty low if its your first real job in IT, unless you get lucky.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
In my experience, it is better to know that most sysadmins don't document their fixes because IT support is very often undermanned. That's why my boss was very glad that I have some IT background (for some basic troubleshooting at least) and can take quite a load off my company's IT department (combination of cluelessness, lack of cutting edge knowledge AND turnaround time).
Another thing you might find frustrating is that users=stupid. Unless they are smart, then they try to be too smart and you'd get more interesting cases
Last but not least:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/odds/bofh/

As somebody who has been in IT for 13 years. (Holly Crap~!) I would suggest getting a job now. Doesn't matter where who why what and when you need experience. When I hire people I first look at their resume and look for progression. If they are just starting out that isn't as big of an issue. I then look at the descriptions of their jobs, I and most other Managers or Directors are fairly good at detecting BS at least in my experience. I then look at certifications, and this goes back to progression. If you got an A+, and a bunch of other certs in 2000, that isn't nearly as appealing as somebody who shows progression but doesn't have as many certs. Last I look at what if any degree's they have. In the interview I require people to take a simulated test, if it is a basic tech, then its a basic test. For a Network Admin they better be able to console into a switch and find and fix a vlan problem. I don't know how common this is in the industry but it blows me away how many people appear to have the skills required for a position and then fail to do the most basic of tasks for the job they are applying for. This is where experience is KEY! For the most part I don't value a degree, some do but I find that most of the skills required to be successful come from personality and experience.
Also there are TONS of different categories/specialties in IT, Most DBA's don't actually know much about infrastructure, etc.
And then beyond all that different industries have different demands for IT. For instance I worked in the dot com era eCommerce industry for a while, then in the construction (Architectural), and now in healthcare. If you have experience in a particular industry outside of IT I would suggest trying to get into IT in that industry.
I hope all of this helps.
PS For a specialization I recommend virtualization. I had to take my Resume down from careerbuilder because of all the people contacting me based on my VMware / HyperV Experience. I like my job now and don't plan on moving but there seems to be a high demand for that now.

job experience and certs and probably in that order. Degree's in IT are about as useful as coasters, job experience and core competency is what matters and you get almost none of that from a degree

Software developer here with a BENG in Computer Communications - Degree + experience = the big bucks but still depends what area you go into, currently looking at £30k + (UK) with a 2:1 and 3+ years experience for programming but it's only going up from here.
Love what I do gets stressful at times but you just need to find an area you enjoy and stick with it.

sakai4eva said:
+1
Another thing you might find frustrating is that users=stupid. Unless they are smart, then they try to be too smart and you'd get more interesting cases
]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm a sysadmin. This comment is my bread and butter for advice

I'm a software developer in england. Primarily self taught and no real qualifications to speak of.
Experience trumps qualifications in my experience.

App developed

I have what I think is a great idea for an app but no clue what to do with it. I'm by no means a programmer or even that great with computers. I've done some searching and there doesn't seem to be an app like this. Any help is greatly appreciated. From what someone told me on another forum it could be complicated. If your up for a challenge hit me up and I'll tell you the idea.

programmers don't program for free - so you'll need to offer some $$$ if you want to retain the copyright - in an ideal world. and if it's commercially viable, your idea will be taken and sold. simple as.

If a talented programmer wants to message me, we can talk numebers.

I need a developer to tell me what it would run to build this app.

Depending on what it does I might be able to help. PM me with the details and we can talk from there. The main reason I'm asking you to PM me is because, as I said, I might be able to help, I'm not a super-programmer but I do what I can.

you may want to also give a hint about what type of app it is - messaging, phone, map related etc. that way a programmer with those skills would be able to contact you. though really, most of the good ideas will have been done by now! maybe your idea hasn't for a reason

What platform is this app?

Also, are you sure there's not already an app that does what you're thinking?

Ok so what the hell. Here's the idea.
Everyone dreams of winning the lottery so how about an app where you've won the lottery. However you win doesn't matter because the fun starts after your "numbers" come up. Let's say you win 100 million. Now you get to start spending it. You could also invest. It either grows or dwindles. You could also have all kinds of marketing involved from Ferrari to Neiman Marcus anywhere people spend money. There should be options to buy houses in all kinds of locations. Maybe the background that shows your money status could be animated while the items you shop for are real. Like got to Realtor.com and buy a dream house. You can buy cars or give money to relatives. Anything you might do with your winnings.
I think it'd cool to see what people would do if they won the lottery. Maybe there is an option to take friends on vacation and buy them cars. It'd be interesting to see how fast the money goes. Say you bought a house and cars. Then a certain percentage of the purchase price would determine the upkeep of said houses or cars. So every month a percentage gets deducted from the winnings. Of courses taxes too since we all enjoy that. What do you think?
So there it is. Please don't steal my idea! Honor system people.

Its quite simple to program, really. Like most videogames, content is where it gets complicated. You have absolutely no game yet. You need to really pin down the design, how the game is ACTUALLY going to work; beyond your basic idea there. Then you'll have to design the interface, gather/generate the audiovisual content, adapt it, figure out licensing issues, etc. It goes on and on.

CptAJ said:
Its quite simple to program, really. Like most videogames, content is where it gets complicated. You have absolutely no game yet. You need to really pin down the design, how the game is ACTUALLY going to work; beyond your basic idea there. Then you'll have to design the interface, gather/generate the audiovisual content, adapt it, figure out licensing issues, etc. It goes on and on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd actually like to learn

You can try freelancing portals like freelancer.com, elance or odesk...

CptAJ said:
Its quite simple to program, really. Like most videogames, content is where it gets complicated. You have absolutely no game yet. You need to really pin down the design, how the game is ACTUALLY going to work; beyond your basic idea there. Then you'll have to design the interface, gather/generate the audiovisual content, adapt it, figure out licensing issues, etc. It goes on and on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tend to agree the idea is only a fraction of the battle... there are numerous ways you could put that idea into practice. Problem with a game is that if you want to mix it with the big boys and make mega bucks it is going to take forever to code and even more money to produce.
If you want to make it simple then you face the problem of people not being interested because of its simplicity. Games generally work best on a PC platform due to the extra screen space / processing power to deliver the graphics and deliver the rich content experience.
If you want to deliver it on a mobile device you will need to scale your expectations accordingly. Can you still get a decent game with limited screen space and HDD space? Hard to say, but it will take a talented programmer...

If you wanted to port a copy of that old classic “Street Rod” across to a mobile device I would be interested in a copy

The tutorial within android sdk page would be a good start point.

I figured it was way beyond my skill level. And you're right, the idea was the simple part it seems.

[Q] Best I.T. field?

Hi, I'm coming to this forum to ask my question 1. Because I know there are a lot of tech-savvy people here and 2. Because I'm on these forums a lot.
I guess my general question is: what is the best IT field to get into now? I really like programming, but I read a couple or places that its projected to go down by 4% from now til 2018ish.
But I read elsewhere that computer engineering is growing rapidly.
I'm 19 years old now, about to start college soon and want to pick a good field in. Something that can defenitely pay good as well.
And I know there's a lot of cross knowledge about IT.
But what's the best IT field tp get into?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

Bump
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

I am a Network Engineer. I think it is a pretty good field, if you don't mind the late nights, and other things. The Networks are the furthest behind right now, and we need competent Engineers to build and run them.

i agree with above..

I agree, however getting companies to spend money on talent and equipment is hard. Its like years ago before companies spent on backups. They wont spend till it bites them.

troubleshot said:
I agree, however getting companies to spend money on talent and equipment is hard. Its like years ago before companies spent on backups. They wont spend till it bites them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct. Working for a Vendor, I see this all the time. It is hard to tell a company that they need new switches every 5 years, especially in this economic time.
The big pusher will be IPv6. That is forcing a lot of companies to look at their infrastructure today. They have this feeling they will be left behind if they aren't IPv6 ready by the end of this year. At least on my view of things - that is the only reason Enterprise side businesses are buying new Routers/Switches.

Enraged21 said:
Hi, I'm coming to this forum to ask my question 1. Because I know there are a lot of tech-savvy people here and 2. Because I'm on these forums a lot.
I guess my general question is: what is the best IT field to get into now? I really like programming, but I read a couple or places that its projected to go down by 4% from now til 2018ish.
But I read elsewhere that computer engineering is growing rapidly.
I'm 19 years old now, about to start college soon and want to pick a good field in. Something that can defenitely pay good as well.
And I know there's a lot of cross knowledge about IT.
But what's the best IT field tp get into?
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem with Network Engineering is there is no degree for it. It is a lot of self knowledge and self learning.
Take your Juniper Certifications or Cisco Certifications. Buy books on BGP, OSPF, IS-IS, IPv6, etc.....
Download software to run labs at your house....build a cheap Cisco lab as well.
GNS3 is a good Cisco network simulator.

I know this isn't the advice you're looking for - but I'm going to give you the advice I wish somebody gave me when I was 18.
Screw the market predictions, screw the salary ceilings, screw the skill demand. Find something you really dig and the rest is going to fall into place.
I spent 7 years as a software developer. I got paid far more than I was probably worth, had loads of perks, and life was good. Problem was I didn't get any satisfaction out of writing code anymore (not sure that I ever really did). It took me a long time to figure out, but in the end you're going to spend 40 hours (or often 60 in tech careers) a week doing something for the rest of your working life. Your quality of life is going to improved much, much more by genuinely enjoying those 40-60 hours each week than it will by bringing home 90K/yr. Believe me.
At 29 I took about a $25K/yr pay cut and "started over" as a web/ui designer in a new company. It's one of the best choices I'd ever made - I just wish I'd made it when I was much younger. My life would have been much easier.

Isn't a degree worth more than a certificate?
I'd rather spend more time in school getting a degree rather than doing it quick and getting a certificate.
MickMcGeough said:
I know this isn't the advice you're looking for - but I'm going to give you the advice I wish somebody gave me when I was 18.
Screw the market predictions, screw the salary ceilings, screw the skill demand. Find something you really dig and the rest is going to fall into place.
I spent 7 years as a software developer. I got paid far more than I was probably worth, had loads of perks, and life was good. Problem was I didn't get any satisfaction out of writing code anymore (not sure that I ever really did). It took me a long time to figure out, but in the end you're going to spend 40 hours (or often 60 in tech careers) a week doing something for the rest of your working life. Your quality of life is going to improved much, much more by genuinely enjoying those 40-60 hours each week than it will by bringing home 90K/yr. Believe me.
At 29 I took about a $25K/yr pay cut and "started over" as a web/ui designer in a new company. It's one of the best choices I'd ever made - I just wish I'd made it when I was much younger. My life would have been much easier.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I know, people are always telling me that. And I'm always open to hearing peoples opinion. I actually would love to do a field in IT... Just don't know what exactly I want. Like I said, I like programming, computer science, etc., but there not gonna need alot of programmers in the near future. My friend is actually a network engineer and makes good money, but I know he'd rather be doing something else.
As for me, I've been doing jack **** for the last two years. I would actually love to spend 40 to 60 hours a week keeping my hands and brains busy.
So I might look into Engineering.. cause that's what it looks like its going into.
I know if it's something with tech involved, I probably won't love it, but I would like it. Better than doing anything else.
2 of the fields I'm looking into:
Computer Engineering Technology (Networking)
Computer Programming and Analysis.
your inputs?

Enraged21 said:
Isn't a degree worth more than a certificate?
I'd rather spend more time in school getting a degree rather than doing it quick and getting a certificate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends. The way I see it (being in the field) If you want to stay on the Engineering side of things and don't have an interest in being Managerial, then Certs + Time In the Field = More Money than Degree.
If you think Certs are the easy way - then you haven't taken any of the tests. If you want to get into Networking you have to have Certs. Then get a job working in a NOC, or for a smaller ISP. Then you work up.

I'm a field engineer so I go to clients' sites and support their IT/resolve their IT problems.
Being a jack of all trades really helps, and having the right mind is a godsend.
Being able to think on your feet to come up with solutions with very few resources, having high google skills also helps, and a resourceful memory for niggly little problems.
In my experience computer degrees are pointless, industry qualifications actually have value as they bring benefits to companies such as partnership programs.
Whats going to be more appealing to customers? "We have 5 engineers with degrees" or "We're a Microsoft Gold Partner" see what I mean?
The more qualifications you get the more you can ask for in salary.
Contracting is where the real money is, you can get paid stupid amounts of money for doing simple things.
I was getting £200 a day on one contract to just create new users and run reports.

so what you guys are saying is,
it's better to be certified in many fields and work my way up rather than getting a degree in a specific field?

Enraged21 said:
so what you guys are saying is,
it's better to be certified in many fields and work my way up rather than getting a degree in a specific field?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. And pick a field you enjoy too.

alright. I appreciate your advice.

When I try to pick my major in college, I'm listed 3 choices ( All Computer Engineering )
Cisco Specialization
Microsoft Specialization
Cyber Security and Digital Forensics Specialization
Out of all those three fields? which one would be the best to "specialize" in?
They also have two other fields available which are computer programming and analysis, and computer information technology. Too many people in CPA and they won't need them in the near future. CIT is too broad. And I don't really know about that.

Another approach which might be a bit different is if you can scrape up the money to go to a conference or two, that may give you some insight on the different areas of IT and may help guide you on what you may or may not like. Virtualization is huge now due to the whole "cloud computing" thing. Microsoft/Active Directory/Exchange-type environments are widely used, so any experience there should guarantee you a job and an employee in a company or a solutions architect if you can design that infrastructure... or support for that type of environment which would be a first step in that field. I always believed that if you're the type that's into programming, you'll know it early on. The hard part like others have said is choosing what sub-field you want to specialize in (or that you enjoy).
No matter where you go, things can get pretty deep. I know a few people who chose to be project managers and make a good living not knowing anything technical - just the logistics of it all.

If you are going to get into general IT - to start with stick to CSCO and MSFT.
You can't go wrong with acquiring certs from either. While it doesn't hurt to know both - at some point you will find you either like to design and support the network (CSCO). Or you like to do AD, LDAP, Server type of stuff (MSFT).
If you wanted mine on which to chose of the 3 you have, I would suggest trying to get internships at each one, to see which you like. College is expensive, and you don't want to have to go back multiple times, because the degree you got wasn't something you liked.
Take an Internship at a smaller ISP. This will give you a chance to check out both the Network (CSCO) side of things, and Systems (MSFT/Linux/BSD) side of things. Most larger companies (Fortune 500) will split it up like this anyways, as it is too much to wear both hats. So you will have your team of Network Engineer's and your team of Systems Engineers/Admins who generally all report up to a single director/vp.

Don't really have the money or the time to intern. That's why I came seeking advice.
Sent from my PG06100 using XDA App

Two fields spring immediately to mind. Computer Forensics and Computer Security.
Both growth industries and interesting too i imagine.

I'll try to make this my last rant here.
I know you came here asking for advice - but I hope you understand that all advice is necessarily autobiographical.
A lot will disagree with me here, but degrees and certs are worth little. Good instruction is infinitely valuable, demonstrable skills are infinitely valuable, and you can get those in post-secondary schooling, but the piece of paper itself will only help you get your first job, when you have no experience, and the person hiring you is either too lazy to verify your skills, or is unable to do so.
Probably the best developer I ever hired was entirely self-taught. The worst was one of the most highly-educated individuals I'd ever interviewed.
I don't know where you got your information about the software development market drying up but I think you're making too big a deal out of it. I cannot fathom a future in which a good software developer's skills are obsolete. You'll have to switch languages/environments many times in your career, but if you dig coding, just go be the best coder you can.
I implore you, try out some different stuff in school and stick to whatever it is that gets your motor going. Don't worry about a 4% market downturn or what industries might grow. Nobody can predict more than 5-10 years away, and you're going to be doing whatever it is you choose for 30-40 years.

Do you guys think naturally good-looking people are happier?

Since this is off-topic I was just thinking to come up with this subject. I know plenty of people who I consider good-looking but I'm curious what their day-to-day life is like compared to average-looking people. I consider myself average, though I've been called ugly and beautiful throughout my life. I don't really care about that stuff. I just want to be myself (even though in certain situations it seems pretty difficult for me). Not everybody will like me and I think I shouldn't even make myself likeable to everybody. I'd rather be considered average-looking and be happy in my own skin and know that I am healthy than be considered attractive by most people and be getting a lot of negative thoughts/things (like accidents, conflicts, murder) because of the competition inbetween same-sexes. I don't want that to happen to anyone. I'm just sayin'.
What do you think?

Well I'm happy and up myself, also have a healthy diet and am extremely skinny, though I eat tonnes. I'm also very nieve when it comes to bad things in the world and I don't think deeply about the world.
That's my story and I consider myself very happy. Don't know if its relevant though.

In my experience what you look like has nothing to do with how you interpret your time here. The two are mutually exclusive. If you're extremely good looking then it may open some doors for you, both figuratively and literally, but it will not change the core of who you are. That only changes with your own life experiences and cannot be guided or altered by single factors, like "beauty".
Alternatively, if you're extremely bad looking then you may have what others would consider a more difficult life. It all depends on what you think life is, and how you live it. If you spend your life looking for love and companionship, then being extremely attractive or extremely unattractive will probably stop that happening. However, you're more likely better off ugly in that case, as if you do find companionship with someone then you'll know without doubt that they love you for who you are. If you're very attractive then you'll most likely never find the good people in the sea of suitors that are only interested in what you look like, and not who you are.
In all honesty I'd say you have more chance of true happiness if you're simply average. You're more like the majority of people, and you're less likely to be either used or abused because of how you look.

Life is easier for good looking people. That's a simple fact. They're more likely to be hired, get a raise, find companionship and people treat them better and are more likely to help them. There's millions of research papers on this. Even to the point where women wearing high heels are more successful at getting people to listen to a charity speech on the street compared to women wearing flat shoes.
But because everything comes easier to them, they're also usually a lot less pleasant to be around.
If social interaction and companionship is important to you, then yes, being good looking makes you happier. Good looking people have more friends, people want to spend more time with them and they have less difficulty finding partners. Because people are horribly superficial. In theory relationships are based on enjoying eachother's company, but 90% of the time people will pick someone pretty over someone whose personality they like.
Personally I really don't care what others think of how I look. I'm average with a not-so-average hair colour. But as someone who's job hunting I have noticed they always hire the pretty ones over everyone else.

Since when off-topic became a place for very deep discussion?

ironman38102 said:
Since when off-topic became a place for very deep discussion?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's the holiday season. People always get melancholy when this time of year comes around.

ShadowLea said:
If social interaction and companionship is important to you, then yes, being good looking makes you happier. Good looking people have more friends, people want to spend more time with them and they have less difficulty finding partners. Because people are horribly superficial. In theory relationships are based on enjoying eachother's company, but 90% of the time people will pick someone pretty over someone whose personality they like.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would like to politely disagree to everything stated in the quoted paragraph.
While having a hot girlfriend seems great for a little while, long term people are more likely to stay is a committed relationship if they choose a partner they feel a bond with, brains rather than beauty etc.
Also, lasting friendships are more likely to be made with people based on interests or other bonds, rather than looks.
So it comes down to while people may choose beauty over brains these relationships (friend or intimate) are generally shorter than those not.

Jesse72 said:
I would like to politely disagree to everything stated in the quoted paragraph.
While having a hot girlfriend seems great for a little while, long term people are more likely to stay is a committed relationship if they choose a partner they feel a bond with, brains rather than beauty etc.
Also, lasting friendships are more likely to be made with people based on interests or other bonds, rather than looks.
So it comes down to while people may choose beauty over brains these relationships (friend or intimate) are generally shorter than those not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're free to disagree.
Sadly humans are a lot less decent than you believe them to be.
If people cared more for connection than looks, there wouldn't be so many affairs, cheaters and mistresses.
And even more regrettable is the fact that this this part of the teason humanity made it to the top of the foodchain. Partnering based on looks is as old as humanity itself.
I have seen millions of marriages fall apart because the woman stopped looking like she was 25. In the less modern cultures in the Middle East men take girls of 15 years old as their partners because their faith decides they should. And when the girl's breasts start to sag, they take another. And another. You can't tell me a 60 year old man forcing a 15 year old girl into a marriage (and consequentially sex) has anything to do with long term, brains or connections.
It is human nature for women to crave a long lasting connection (due to children requiring a lifetime connection), and for men to spread out their seed as much as possible to ensure the largest change of passing on their genes.
And by evolutionary reasoning, pretty people have better genes.
Modern society may wear a mask of 'decency' to hide that instinct, but it is still very much an active factor.
Do I sound cold, distant and possibly arrogant? Probably. I am both aromantic and asexual. That allows me to see humanity without the lies people tell themselves to feel like they're not sex-obsessed animals who learned to talk. Does that make me a freak? Many will certainly think exactly that right now.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk 2

ShadowLea said:
You're free to disagree.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Cause I still do. You may believe that humanity is full of liars, cheaters, and people who value beauty over brains, but once you remove media (which is always so pessimistic) out of the equation and just look at the real world, I believe the percentage of people valuing beauty over brains is actually quite small compared to the opposite.
Maybe I just live in a more positive community, but I generally find many more people who value brains, head over heart etc.
Feel free to continue disagreeing though. I'm interested in others opinions also.

j0k3rz said:
in my opinion, happiness is completely relative. you're only as good looking as you perceive yourself to be, and you only allow it to affect your happiness as much as you want it to. therefore, no probably not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great point! Me being up myself makes me happy. I can believe I'm really good looking but to be honest I'm probably average.

Well I see really interesting discussion over here. Back to topic. I have been considering myself as a average-bad looking person. Lately my psychologist showed me another point of view. Then I realised rather than being bad-avreage looking person I am good looking person. I started to pay much more attention to what people say about my appearance and I realised that people really consider me as a really good looking person. I must admit that realising that I am good looking person made my life happier. Sorry for some mistakes English is not my primary language

i think it has to do with self-confidence and recognizing ones good looks, at least in regard to the subjective opinion of the society.

People may say "It has nothing to do with looks".
I disagree.
Looks do play a part, though it is not everything.
I would say Im good looking. It has some advantages like average people tend to hang out with good looking and popular people.
Key sentence:
Good looks give you a start. Where you go from there depends on who you are.
BUT. Let me also add. If you are a Female. Good looks makes everything very very different.
Good looks for guys is not a big deal. Popularity,machoness, over confidence etc matters. Im good looking, yet a shy guy. Let me tell you life aint too good for me.