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Background:
I am a recent graduate with a BS in electrical engineering. During college I worked for 3 different companies doing work related to my major through the COOP program. I put in more than 6 months of full time work at each.
Company A:
I have been working at Company A for 3 months in 5 days; also, in 5 days my probationary period will expire. Company A is a German born company. A large majority of my coworkers are German and since all of the equipment was made in Germany all of the code and designs are in German. And I do not speak any German. The job currently is mostly maintenance with some development, and much more development planned in the future. The company is global with approximately 5,500 employees. They are a market leader in the automotive field and are expanding. Also, I am a salaried employee.
Company B:
Recently I was contacted by Company B and offered a job. I had multiple interviews with them during the job hunt process that landed me the job with Company A. Company B is a much smaller development firm. They have been in business for 60 years.
Comparison:
The equipment and devices used in the offered job are more the standard in the United States. So if Company A was to let me go 20 years down the road it might be harder for me to find a job in the USA. The job offered, is a hourly based job and 10 minutes from home(vs 30). The jobs have comparable pay and benefits, assuming I work 3 hours of OT each week at Company B. I was told it is normal to work 5 hours OT each week. Company B seems like there is more room for growth. The work at Company B will most likely be more demanding and rewarding than that at Company A. I have no personal issues with Company A and would feel bad about leaving them and the friends I have made.
The Dilemma:
Stay with a secure large company using foreign technologies that pays slightly more or move to a company that offer more room for growth and possibly be better for my career.
Any input would be greatly appreciated!
my advice , take a german course(take your time , self development always pays) , get a nice position in the said upcoming dev projects , and they wont let go of you even if theres a workforce dismantling in the US outsource , and u need to take that in account in these hard times
and about the 30 min vs 10 min , reward yourself with a nice car system , and turn that dullride to a joyride
while you're younger you should take more risk. In my opinion, i'd go for the company where there's more chance for growth and is more demanding, giving you valuable experience you will likely use the rest of your career. Personaly, i would take a pay cut to work in an environment where i was truly needed and appreciated with daily challenges and long term goals.
I would work at Company B
Any advancement in your life is what you should strive for. As humans we always look for a challenge and the next best thing for us, and as you already know a challenge and a push to try harder is just fundamental (That's why you're on xda haha) Plus if you really think about it company B sounds more stable anyways, and the 10 minute car drive opposed to the 30 minute one would probably be paying you back for the slightly lowered pay from company B...you'll save on gas haha
My overall summary: Shoot for improvement and self-adaptation, you should still take that German course though, it'll be helpful to boast about haha Go for company B
Is company B offering 40% increase over your salary? Otherwise, the stress and the drawbacks of changing companies won't be worth it. Besides, you'd need an excuse to change companies, but you can easily stay without compromising your status quo.
You can say that you are leaving for a better offer, but it seems like they are paying you even less.
So, unless there's something wrong with Company A (toxic environment, abusive boss/coworkers, etc.) other than a different language, I'd suggest you stick with Company A for the time being
Yours Sincerely
-An accountant that changed too many jobs-
I like what I've been reading in the responses you've gotten up-thread of this one from me, but I'd like to offer a different perspective on this situation. In part, I will be echoing souljaboy's comments.
In any professional environment, you need to do deep research on every company you either are working for or which is a potential suitor. To fail to do this is both foolish and dangerous. What I mean about "deep research" incorporates a number of things. First, you need to see how their stock (whether publicly or privately held) is doing, and what its performance has been over its history. Remember, context isn't "everything", it is the "only thing".
Second, you need to look into what their customers in total have been saying about them, along with vendors and anyone else you can find out about (Google is thy friend, but so are contacts and social networks). When a company -- especially an American company -- makes any claim to stability, it's not so much that you should be skeptical, but you need to remember we in America are short-sighted, and so a "long term" plan means maybe a year or two (at best, if you're lucky).
The fact that Company B has a 60 year track record is nothing to sneeze at, so that's a good start, but you need to know more.
Third, you need to learn something of the inside politics of the company. How long have the BoD been there? Who are they? What do people (stockholders, others in the industry, etc.) say about them? Remember that companies are just like fish: the rot starts at the head. A company can "look" alright but may have decaying leadership and other issues which seriously jeopardize its future viability. Don't be too easily deceived.
Ok, apart from fully investigating Company B, let's take a look at Company A.
It's a German company, which means that it's based in a member country of the European Union, and it also means its future is tied to such things as the value of the Euro, the EU member bail-outs (think Greece, for instance) and then step back and realize that all of these basically "political" factors may have long-term effects. Also remember that the EU, the U.N., and others are discussing changing the global currency backing from the U.S. Dollar to something else, and this is liable to have a sharply negative impact on U.S. <> German economic interactions.
Because Company A is a member of the automotive industry, you need to look long and hard at what's going on in other, seemingly-unrelated areas like oil, wind/solar/battery, etc. Even a stable company that's made no mistakes on its own can crumble if the rug is pulled out from underneath it harshly enough.
Also, you need to ask yourself a question: What are the fundamental reasons (this list should not exceed two or three items) that company set up U.S. operations to begin with? Then, ask yourself: if the U.S. economy (or the German economy) went to hell, or if things like tax rates for foreign companies, or import duties, were to go up significantly, at what point would your U.S. operation no longer remain viable? Then, lastly, ask yourself where things are presently in relation to that upper cut-off.
While it obviously pays to not be tin-foil hat conspiracy-theorist on this, it also pays to remember the Titanic and Britannic were "unsinkable" too.
Good luck to you, whatever you may decide.
SciFiSurfer said:
I like what I've been reading in the responses you've gotten up-thread of this one from me, but I'd like to offer a different perspective on this situation. In part, I will be echoing souljaboy's comments.
In any professional environment, you need to do deep research on every company you either are working for or which is a potential suitor. To fail to do this is both foolish and dangerous. What I mean about "deep research" incorporates a number of things. First, you need to see how their stock (whether publicly or privately held) is doing, and what its performance has been over its history. Remember, context isn't "everything", it is the "only thing".
Second, you need to look into what their customers in total have been saying about them, along with vendors and anyone else you can find out about (Google is thy friend, but so are contacts and social networks). When a company -- especially an American company -- makes any claim to stability, it's not so much that you should be skeptical, but you need to remember we in America are short-sighted, and so a "long term" plan means maybe a year or two (at best, if you're lucky).
The fact that Company B has a 60 year track record is nothing to sneeze at, so that's a good start, but you need to know more.
Third, you need to learn something of the inside politics of the company. How long have the BoD been there? Who are they? What do people (stockholders, others in the industry, etc.) say about them? Remember that companies are just like fish: the rot starts at the head. A company can "look" alright but may have decaying leadership and other issues which seriously jeopardize its future viability. Don't be too easily deceived.
Ok, apart from fully investigating Company B, let's take a look at Company A.
It's a German company, which means that it's based in a member country of the European Union, and it also means its future is tied to such things as the value of the Euro, the EU member bail-outs (think Greece, for instance) and then step back and realize that all of these basically "political" factors may have long-term effects. Also remember that the EU, the U.N., and others are discussing changing the global currency backing from the U.S. Dollar to something else, and this is liable to have a sharply negative impact on U.S. <> German economic interactions.
Because Company A is a member of the automotive industry, you need to look long and hard at what's going on in other, seemingly-unrelated areas like oil, wind/solar/battery, etc. Even a stable company that's made no mistakes on its own can crumble if the rug is pulled out from underneath it harshly enough.
Also, you need to ask yourself a question: What are the fundamental reasons (this list should not exceed two or three items) that company set up U.S. operations to begin with? Then, ask yourself: if the U.S. economy (or the German economy) went to hell, or if things like tax rates for foreign companies, or import duties, were to go up significantly, at what point would your U.S. operation no longer remain viable? Then, lastly, ask yourself where things are presently in relation to that upper cut-off.
While it obviously pays to not be tin-foil hat conspiracy-theorist on this, it also pays to remember the Titanic and Britannic were "unsinkable" too.
Good luck to you, whatever you may decide.
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+1
I am, of course, speaking as an accountant that can market his skills across a vast range of industries. Engineers will have a different take on things as well.
I wanted to thank everyone for their input!
I decided to go with Company B. I gave Company A my 2 weeks notice on Monday. After that Company A came back with an offer for a rather large salary increase along with an increase in my annual bonus. Not to mention they pointed out some benefits I did not know existed. Like full reimbursement on any higher education as long as the grade in the course is a B or higher and pertained to my job.
With that in mind it makes really hard to leave the benefits, stability, and salary of Company A. So I am calling back Company B to let them know I plan to stay with Company A after all...
Thanks again.
Blauvster said:
I wanted to thank everyone for their input!
I decided to go with Company B. I gave Company A my 2 weeks notice on Monday. After that Company A came back with an offer for a rather large salary increase along with an increase in my annual bonus. Not to mention they pointed out some benefits I did not know existed. Like full reimbursement on any higher education as long as the grade in the course is a B or higher and pertained to my job.
With that in mind it makes really hard to leave the benefits, stability, and salary of Company A. So I am calling back Company B to let them know I plan to stay with Company A after all...
Thanks again.
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Definitely sounds like good news
I found this to be a very interesting read so I thought I'd share it.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/haydnsh...5-comes-early-and-with-a-hint-of-desperation/
Samsung has announced a preview of the Galaxy S5 on February 24th at Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. Sort of. Invites have gone out to the press for what Samsung is describing as Unpacked, Episode 1 with a large 5 emblazoned on the invite (twice). All a big tease. Might it backfire?
The announcement has been picked up around the world. A Galaxy launch is a big event. But there is a hint that this time round Samsung is desperate to get a new device out there and to use the attendant publicity to drive sales in a very tight market. Samsung needs this more than we do.
In the middle of last year, not long after the S4 launch I suggested Samsung had peaked in smartphones. The evidence since then has been pretty compelling. Samsung’s sales seem to have stalled more dramatically than Apple’s.
In June 2013 Samsung gave guidance on record profits. By Q4 Bloomberg reported the first drop in profits in 9 quarters.
Samsung Electronics Co. (005930) posted its first profit decline in nine quarters as new Apple Inc. (AAPL) iPhones won over high-end handset buyers and models from cheaper Chinese producers lured budget customers.
It’s clear that the Samsung pricing cascade is running out of steam. You have to go back some years, to the general consumer electronics industry and in particular TVs to see this cascade at work. Remember it?
Launch at a high price/high margin to soak the early adopters, discount to acquire market share; and when that stops working, launch a new generation product. Soon after the S4 was available the price differential in different parts of the world exceeded $300 as they played this cascade out in different markets.
Now Samsung needs sales, not least to support its vast manufacturing capacity. According to Daewo Securities, “Samsung shipped 13 million units of its S4 in the fourth quarter, down from 17 million in the previous three months.” That’s a reduction of 4 million units in the buying season.
Because of its pricing model, Samsung is also in danger of ceding high margin sales to Apple more generally.
There will be novelty in the S5 to try to win margins back, however. Leaks in January suggest Samsung will sport a new UI in the S5, possible powered by Google NOW. The two companies have been working more closely lately and more product integration would be no surprise. Samsung has also been working hard on its branding, despite being caught out manipulating social media reviews of competitors. I covered some of that brand investment here on Forbes.
Yet it is in software and services integration that Samsung still lags. Software has been named a new national priority for Korea, a move reported by The New Yorker, recently. In the software and services arena, in promoting service revenue in place of hardware margins, Samsung is a decade behind Apple. The strain of being hardware first is beginning to tell.
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Samsung's suffering the same thing Apple is - Western smartphone markets are approaching saturation which is causing a drop in margins as manufacturers turn to emerging markets where selling price and margin are lower. In quarterly revenue, market share, and margin growth Samsung still outperformed all other Android device manufacturers based on last quarter's earnings. Their revenue was actually up but their earning's were depressed because of lower margins in mobile devices. LG (who gets over half their mobile revenue from dumb phones) and the other Chinese (physically based and selling market) manufacturers showed YOY gains but everyone else is dying including Sony, HTC, and Motorola.
So if articles like you quoted predicting Samsung's death and desperation are true I hope you like Apple and iOS. Because if changing market conditions are going to kill Samsung then they'll be the last to go behind every other brand discussed on XDA.
BarryH_GEG said:
Samsung's suffering the same thing Apple is - Western smartphone markets are approaching saturation which is causing a drop in margins as manufacturers turn to emerging markets where selling price and margin are lower. In quarterly revenue, market share, and margin growth Samsung still outperformed all other Android device manufacturers based on last quarter's earnings. Their revenue was actually up but their earning's were depressed because of lower margins in mobile devices. LG (who gets over half their mobile revenue from dumb phones) and the other Chinese (physically based and selling market) manufacturers showed YOY gains but everyone else is dying including Sony, HTC, and Motorola.
So if articles like you quoted predicting Samsung's death and desperation are true I hope you like Apple and iOS. Because if changing market conditions are going to kill Samsung then they'll be the last to go behind every other brand discussed on XDA.
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Quite an intelligent response. I didn't perceive the article as pointing towards the death of Samsung. Samsung obviously isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'd rather be without a phone than having an Apple product.
Delakit said:
Quite an intelligent response. I didn't perceive the article as pointing towards the death of Samsung. Samsung obviously isn't going anywhere anytime soon. I'd rather be without a phone than having an Apple product.
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The is the problem you going to get In an ecosystem with so many competition. Every manufacturer costs raise to compete with each other and in the end becomes a zero sum game for them. Just like sony needing to exit their PC biz, some manufacturers who can't play well in smartphone world will need to exit too.
Only winner here is Google and in some way Apple owning their own ecosystems, Consumers definitely benefit the most with the amount of choices of phones out there to tinker with
Phones are overpriced anyway. I've never seen the actual costs but it's silly.
I think if anyone's in danger Apple are in trouble. They are still overpricing. I know quite a few who have jumped ship from Apple.
Sent from my HTC One using xda app-developers app
Samsung is being force to compete now, the likes of LG has making them a little bit more competitive, which is a good thing since before Samsung was the Android king and the King of smart phone besting out Apple and Window phones. Since the LG G2 was introduce, Samsung customer have been looking toward LG direction, I am one of them and I am glad I picked the G2 over the S4. Let the two giant battle it out, the winner will be the customer.
We all hear the stories of Samsung losing market share across the board, I used to defend them to the naysayers until I purchased this latest flagship tablet of theirs, I have never seen anything so under supported and locked down so developers can't do anything with it. For the first time in years I will not upgrade my phone to another Samsung, buy one in China and its even worse with the embedded spyware installed in the bootloader and modem, replace either component or the kernel and you have a wifi boat anchor.
lorinkundert said:
We all hear the stories of Samsung losing market share across the board, I used to defend them to the naysayers until I purchased this latest flagship tablet of theirs, I have never seen anything so under supported and locked down so developers can't do anything with it. For the first time in years I will not upgrade my phone to another Samsung, buy one in China and its even worse with the embedded spyware installed in the bootloader and modem, replace either component or the kernel and you have a wifi boat anchor.
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Having seen the rumours about the S6 - I would say they have had a turnaround in mindset and we are looking forward to an amazing future. The Tab S is going to get Lollipop in the next month, which is a massive improvement over Kitkat.
The less bloated vision for the future will mean quicker updates also.
Under supported and locked down, how did you come to that conclusion?
Firstly Samsung are good enough to leave the boot loader unlocked which basically opens the door for development and saves a massive headache.
Irrespective of knox which is a manufacturers prerogative to include. It doesn't hinder development, it's just Samsung's mechanism of knowing if the device has been tampered with.
Already there are custom kernels, roms and recoveries and plenty going on regarding such things.
Where's the lack of support unless you refer to Samsung themselves?
Sent from my HTC One_M8 using XDA Free mobile app
I am a hard core Android advocate but like you, I have tended to steer clear of Samsung lately. I think Samsung has become the "Apple" of the Android market. That in itself isn't necessarily a bad thing per se. If you want a device that just works and you don't do much tinkering or customizing then its great for you. However, if you are all in on Android as a platform and don't want to feel tethered to a particular ecosystem then Samsung may not be your best choice.
They put in a number of measures to ensure you can't customize your device too much (aside from installing a new launcher). But I don't want all of the bloatware and want to have the option to uninstall it and save the space on my device without having to go through the heart stopping process of rooting my device and hoping I don't eff it up.
I think people have started to learn this as well which has resulted in Samsung losing a step. That and the fact that the other manufacturers (LG, Moto, etc) have caught up and actually making better devices IMO. Samsung can't just rely on their brand name anymore like they could a couple of years ago.
If Samsung does have this change in mindset regarding their Android devices that's great but I'll believe it when I see it and it may be too little too late. The damage may be done and the best they could hope for is stop the leaky bucket of customers leaving but not really gain much market share.
Of course all of this is my own personal opinion and no one asked me directly for my opinion so please make your own decisions and do your own research. There's no replacement for making your own informed decision based on your own specific needs.
They still sell a huge number of phones, and a huge number of other components. Might possibly be making OLED screens for iphones soon.
In any case they had a year of less than expected profits rather than losses so I dont expect to see them in decline really.
In decline? Hardly
First off don't be so U.S. Centric. Apple is #1 in market share in the US but it is the only game in town if you want iOS. Samsung, while "only" #2 is still by far the biggest Android supplier. But all that is only in the US. Looking globally, Samsung destroys #2 Apple by two to one. Android destroys iOS by 84.4% to 11.7%. A lot of this is because outside the US the market for flagship phones is a lot smaller and the low end to mid range rules the market.
See: http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
Here is another one that shows by country market share for the US and the EU countries:
https://gigaom.com/2015/02/04/android-and-ios-are-nearly-tied-for-u-s-smartphone-market-share/
Once again outside the US Android destroys iOS in market share. My theory is the whole carrier subsidized phone phenomenon we have here in the US disguises the actual cost of a phone so you really have to do your math to figure out how much you are actually paying. In other countries where they have to pay up front for the phone, cost matters. I'm guessing those folks are not generally buying the flagship Android phones but going for more affordable options. Apple doesn't really compete at the low end.
So Samsung is well positioned to compete globally. So the idea that its "in decline" isn't really true. Also remember that Samsung is a major supplier of components to other manufacturers including Apple.
ratman6161 said:
First off don't be so U.S. Centric. Apple is #1 in market share in the US but it is the only game in town if you want iOS. Samsung, while "only" #2 is still by far the biggest Android supplier. But all that is only in the US. Looking globally, Samsung destroys #2 Apple by two to one. Android destroys iOS by 84.4% to 11.7%. A lot of this is because outside the US the market for flagship phones is a lot smaller and the low end to mid range rules the market.
See: http://www.idc.com/prodserv/smartphone-os-market-share.jsp
Here is another one that shows by country market share for the US and the EU countries:
https://gigaom.com/2015/02/04/android-and-ios-are-nearly-tied-for-u-s-smartphone-market-share/
Once again outside the US Android destroys iOS in market share. My theory is the whole carrier subsidized phone phenomenon we have here in the US disguises the actual cost of a phone so you really have to do your math to figure out how much you are actually paying. In other countries where they have to pay up front for the phone, cost matters. I'm guessing those folks are not generally buying the flagship Android phones but going for more affordable options. Apple doesn't really compete at the low end.
So Samsung is well positioned to compete globally. So the idea that its "in decline" isn't really true. Also remember that Samsung is a major supplier of components to other manufacturers including Apple.
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No they are not. Samsung is losing grounds in both China and India, two of the biggest country (population wise) in the world. Samsung is steadily losing sales on mid to low end phones, which is where Android reign supremacy. It's hard for Samsung to compete when their competitors are willing to sell their phones at just 1.8% profit margin (Xiaomi - 1.7%. Samsung - 18.7%. Apple - 28.7 %).
snapper.fishes said:
No they are not. Samsung is losing grounds in both China and India, two of the biggest country (population wise) in the world. Samsung is steadily losing sales on mid to low end phones, which is where Android reign supremacy. It's hard for Samsung to compete when their competitors are willing to sell their phones at just 1.8% profit margin (Xiaomi - 1.7%. Samsung - 18.7%. Apple - 28.7 %).
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If you have any business education at all, you would know that any company selling at a 1.7% margin won't be around very long. I wouldn't worry about those type of companies taking anything away from Samsung. If anything, their sub-par product will only drive these "new" low-end to mid-tier users to splurge for a better phone on their next purchase.
Samsung isn't going anywhere, and they are more diversified than most companies. That's why they can sell at an 18.7% margin.. because you need a minimum of ~23% overall company margin to maintain growth.
ingenious247 said:
If you have any business education at all, you would know that any company selling at a 1.7% margin won't be around very long. I wouldn't worry about those type of companies taking anything away from Samsung. If anything, their sub-par product will only drive these "new" low-end to mid-tier users to splurge for a better phone on their next purchase.
Samsung isn't going anywhere, and they are more diversified than most companies. That's why they can sell at an 18.7% margin.. because you need a minimum of ~23% overall company margin to maintain growth.
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I am very well aware that Xiaomi's low profit strategy is not sustainable in the long term, and that they will eventually have to change their strategy or collapse. The problem however, is that their product isn't subpar. I personally know people who use their products, and the quality is actually on par with high end android phones. Xiaomi is waging a price war against Samsung in China, and no matter who wins, everyone loses.
Title says it all. What do you think? Should I get rid of my Mate 10? What information is being taken? Are there ways to mitigate eavesdropping or security breaches?
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/14/technology/huawei-intelligence-chiefs/index.html
mscion said:
Title says it all. What do you think? Should I get rid of my Mate 10? What information is being taken? Are there ways to mitigate eavesdropping or security breaches?
http://money.cnn.com/2018/02/14/technology/huawei-intelligence-chiefs/index.html
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They have any proves, i don't see any?! Personally, i don't care what they say, is like thiefs shouting on thiefs! [emoji16]
Pretoriano80 said:
They have any proves, i don't see any?! Personally, i don't care what they say, is like thiefs shouting on thiefs! [emoji16]
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Trump told them so it must be true :angel:
It's U.S protectionism .. Huawei handsets and infrastructure equipment are everywhere (except in the U.S.), and to think the company would risk losing it all by spying, really? Why hasn't there been any proof of these allegations? It truly is BS and leaves the American market relegated to Apple, Samsung, and remaining few. And the hypocrisy, where are iPhones manufactured .. hint, it's not in the U.S.
enrique71 said:
And the hypocrisy, where are iPhones manufactured .. hint, it's not in the U.S
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What?! You mean they're not actually made in California?!?!?!
ante0 said:
What?! You mean they're not actually made in California?!?!?!
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Yeah, in Califoxxnia! [emoji23]
What makes you think you phones are not breached by CIA already ?
From point of security breach and eaves dropping, its all the same. However if your interest is in giving the US intelligence an advantage by having a better hand at breaching than the Chinese government, than maybe you can stop buying Chinese phones.
Same with trade wars, if your interest is in giving US an advantage in trade wars than so be it. As a non-American, i have no such trade war concerns.
I used to say I have nothing to hide. Now I say I have nothing left to hide!
I just happen to find this which makes me worry.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/16/...l?smid=nytcore-ipad-share&smprod=nytcore-ipad
I also remember folks complaining, in a Mate 9 thread on XDA, about the app WPS Office perhaps providing a back door.
Everybody collects data on you. Seems like more aggressive advertising now due to google.
Data collection probably not limited to shopping interests.
Also very worried about backdoors on hardware.
It seems hopeless.
Don't get me wrong. I love My Mate 10.
Would just like a balance between security and privacy.
It would be good for the U.S government to provide PROOF, EVIDENCE and not only conjecture.
enrique71 said:
It would be good for the U.S government to provide PROOF, EVIDENCE and not only conjecture.
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Yes, that would be good. They claim there is evidence of past breaches but chances are many would probably not believe it anyway. Best is to take steps to improve own security.
I think nearly all, if not absolutely all, cell phones are manufactured/assembled in China... not to mention nearly all the parts no matter who the "maker" is are made in China also. Doesn't matter if their headquarters are located somewhere else. I have had my Mate 10 (non-pro) for a few days now and it is quite possibly the best phone I have ever owned. My backup phone is a ZTE Axon 7 which was possibly the best right before the Mate. So I guess the Chinese have been reading my email's and text messages for years now. If you think this is only happening (if it even is) on Chinese Owned company phones then you are as delusional as Trump, and that boggles the mind!
Wow, such paranoia. So you're all happy to be spied on by your own government but get tin hat crazy when agencies tell you to not use Chinese phones? Seriously? As previous poster said, where do you think most off your devices are made anyway? Sheesh
When the N.K. "gonna nuke us anytime now" propaganda doesn't work, start blaming Russia.
When blaming Russia doesn't work, blame Kaspersky.
When Kaspersky doesn't work, tell the people to not buy Huawei or Xaiomi etc. devices.
It's gonna be hard to drop Huawei's telecom equipment since a lot of network infrastructure uses their equipment these days. Funny innit?
There probably having trouble finding a back door to Huawei and ZTE phones. Besides, FBI, CIA etc are as subtle as a cockroach on a white rug. Whatever they don't want you to buy, run quick and buy it!
Sent from my L29
Was there in the past - 2015/2016 not something similar with the gay phones where the FBI could not crack them and get access to and asked the "fruit company" to provide the software to get access to locked/encrypted phones. They used the excuse that it was important that they had the ability to crack phones used by terrorists...
I believe it could be well that they struggle to find a backdoor on Huawei and ZTE produced phones.
I am sure that the governments have the ability to spy on everybody and if its not the government it will be google or microshaft...
The alternatives are the apple product programmed to slow down as the battery ages and or Samsung products which over time will slow down and or fail due to a mainboard failure, and here I have experience out of 1st hand on my old S3, Note 2 and Note 4 where the mainboards failed due to a eMMC chip failure. Apple and Samsung can keep their crap phones imo.
Yea because the NSA etc can't get in them, no back door etc
First of all, the news shows that the agencies are not really worried about your privacy as a citizen, rather that those phones may be a passive method to learn about telecom infrastructure of the U.S, or even possibly use them as an attack gateway in case of a cyber WWIII.
Now about your privacy:
Huawei, Samsung, HTC, LG, ZTE whatever, all are running Android. Depends on whom you're concerned that will breach your privacy, if you're concerned about the governments, your privacy was breached with the very first smartphone you bought, why? Well, Android is Google and they obviously have backdoors for themselves at least and Google does cooperate with the NSA when they need, so does Apple, so that's one thing. The other concern may specifically be "foreign" governments, which yeah it's possible given how China uses for example WeChat as a way to spy on it's citizens
In short, Huawei or Samsung or Apple, they all are cooperating with some government (May not be directly but through Google).
MONEY!!!!
i would think its more of a breach in the green area, its all about money.....
there is only one thing going on here and that is America being scarred of Chinese corporations...shengzen will overtook every pice of techonlogy in the future. ...and saying that some company is spying on them while "they"(American goverment) does exactly that HAHAHAHA.... what a ****ty claim for them with no proof or whatsoever...well thats how human behaves when gets scarred...u throw every amunition u have at there faces and whis for the best LMAO peace guys
numernumer said:
i would think its more of a breach in the green area, its all about money.....
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Totall agree, and anyone who believes otherwise should have their head examined. Qualcomm, Apple, Samsung .. they all have a lot to lose by allowing Huawei/ZTE access to the U.S consumer market. AT&T cancelling the launch of the M10Pro one day before CES stinks of Government coercion, which I'm sure was induced by lobby pressure.
I'm sure it isn't news to most of you that Huawei and ZTE have been systematically attacked by the United States for a couple of years now. Carriers in the U.S. do not carry Huawei phones, and in the past couple of weeks alone things have been escalated on all fronts. Huawei stock has all but crashed, the victim of serious market manipulation by everyone that the U.S. is forcing to play along with their charade. They are even trying to force other countries to ban hardware from both these companies. Last week, the U.S. bullied Canadian authourities into arresting the CFO of Huawei, who is of course the daughter of the CEO. Needless to say, China is not happy about it - and have made some fairly ugly threats on diplomatic channels since.
There are a few aspects to this, first of all the insistence by U.S. intelligence services that both Huawei and ZTE are 'spying' for the Chinese government. If there exists one iota of proof showing this, they haven't come out with it. In other words, they are claiming that these companies have the 'capability' to spy, which is of course a nonsensical statement because the same could be said for ANY device capable of networking made by ANY company in the past 30 years. If phones or routers or switches or dedicated backbone mainframes WERE spying, any privacy/hacking group would have already come out with obvious evidence of such. I won't even go into the irony of the American government complaining about spying on civilians... The thing that makes this truly laughable is that approximately 80% of all hardware handling Internet traffic already in place was made by these two companies. It is rumoured that the reason for this hysterical attack on these companies, especially Huawei, is that the NSA has not been able to crack their encryption - and that these companies have refused to give the NSA backdoor access. Again, the irony is so rich it hurts.
The U.S. has unilaterally imposed sanctions on Iran, sanctions that have been repeatedly overturned and veto'd by all of the other members of the U.N. council. As such these sanctions do not carry any weight in the international system at large. As an example other countries are merrily continuing to trade with Iran, and the United States cannot legally do anything about it. Their excuse for flat out kidnapping the daughter of the CEO of Huawei (on the same day that Trump sat and had dinner with Xi in Beunos Aires) was the claim that Huawei was doing business with Iran through a shell company. They are accusing her of a crime, based on sanctions that are illegal. A crime that she didn't commit in Canada, or Iran, or China, or Mexico, or in any other country she has been to. Canadian extradition treaties with the United States mean that what the United States did was 'legal' as far as ordering Canadian police to apprehend her - except for the fact that technically she never left the airport, which by law is considered international territory that is legally bound by the laws of specific parts of the airport. For example, a good sized chunk of the Vancouver airport is considered American ground - in the same way that an embassy is. You cross a checkpoint, within which you are bound to the laws of the United States and there are U.S. military forces there in fatigues and carrying AR-15's. She, of course, did not enter this area. In fact she legally didn't even enter Canadian territory.
This is all part of a bigger trade war, one that could potentially get very ugly - very quickly. In the week since her abduction (I won't call it an arrest), Canadian authourities have stalled on having a bail hearing for her. Of course the Americans are demanding that she be denied bail, for obvious reasons. Meanwhile the citizens of Canada (like me) are outraged by this disgusting abuse of American thuggery, and by the simpering cowardice of our buffoon of a leader Justin Trudeau - who in typical idiot fashion happily gushed about how he was warned in advance of this 'arrest'. Let's be clear here. China has blatantly broken international law when it comes to patents and legal intellectual property as a matter of course through the history of technological development. This is how they operate. No one will argue that they caused the crash of several major tech-communications companies here in Canada, including Nortel and arguably Blackberry (although they were a victim of their own shortsightness as well, but hey they really stuck to that physical keyboard to the very end). No one is going to say that China has a great record when it comes to human rights, and they certainly aren't afraid to disappear their own people in a heartbeat - even from foreign countries. That said, it could very easily be argued that the United States has done more harm in our world than China by orders of magnitude - but that is another discussion entirely.
<Insert 20 page rant here about how Bush and Obama sold 500,000 production jobs to China and the American public happily allowed Borgmart to spread across the country like a Cancer>
Anyway, back to the topic of... well, my topic (if that is even possible). Things are heating up BIG TIME - by the day. China announced today that they have banned the sales of all iphones in large parts of the country. They have recalled diplomats, and are very close to expelling Canadian diplomats. The CEO of Huawei isn't just another Billionaire playboy, he is very chummy with the highest members of the ruling party. The Americans knew fully well what message they were sending when they snatched his daughter out of the Vancouver airport. The question is, how far will this go? What lengths will the Americans go to in order to shut Huawei down? Could they lean on Google to the point where Google services disable themselves on Huawei devices? Could they actually force countries like Canada to ban Huawei devices from using tele-communication networks? Let's step back for a moment, to just a couple of months ago. Keep in mind that both Huawei and ZTE phones are allowed to be used by the highest level of government in the U.K., in France, and in Germany. Do you really think that if there was any proof of any kind that these phones were uploading data, that these governments wouldn't have joined the United States in 'banning' them? Here in Canada, Huawei is the prime sponsor to 'Hockey Night in Canada'. What will happen if the Americans take things to the next level, and our phones start little by little becoming unusable? Can we honestly expect Huawei to expend a lot of effort to keep our firmware updated here in the West given the nonsense that is going on?
It is laughable to try and point fingers at these companies for the 'potential to spy' when we are being wrung dry for every bit of personal information possible by Google, Facebook, Apple, etc. Every piece of tech we own is made in China. This situation is getting scary though, and personally I cringe to say it but owning a brand new Huawei phone may be a losing proposition. We have dared to support a company that isn't entirely under the boot of the American petro-dollar Deep State MIC. Is this all just high stakes posturing between superpowers, or the final chess moves in a grand game played by the darkest of Puppeteers?
(don't get me started)
In India too about 95% sentiments are Anti-chinese goods coz they are claiming land belonging to India and that they are encouraging other neighbouring nations (you know which one) for border bullying and other stuffs (you know what).
But, nonetheless, the top market in India is OnePlus and Xiaomi. Technology at affordable cost will win irrespective of where it is coming from.
Irony will prevail, market will not fall only stock will and market shocks are short spanned. Bad days for Huawei but they will come out of it.
Businessmen and politicians never give up on anything
Pretty sure they can't ban certain phones from working, they work on spectrums which are universal across the carriers. I.E There is no way to determine the manufacture of a phone by the phone signal.
They could ban you from importing them though.
Luckily the UK where I live are being a bit more sensible about it and working with the company to iron out any security concerns. The main issue is with 5G, which I've heard Huawei are miles ahead of the competition.
You, sir, have some amazing vocabs and writing ability. Knowing how Huawei and China government works, I wouldn't be to worry about Huawei intentionally slowly down their devices in the western countries. I did make an acquaintance of a Huawei top brass a few years back. Don't be too worry about your device not receiving anymore updates.
The banning of apple phones in China was spurred by qualcomm. Both US companies sueing the crap out of each other in China. It is almost laughable.
Also I doubt Google will disable their services on Huawei devices. Firstly, Google is trying to re-enter the Chinese Market. Secondly, China phone producers would not lose a thing. They already have their own application stores and cloud drives made for the Chinese people. The whole ecosystem is there, with or without Google.
Really like your views and speculations. Cheers.
Phil750123 said:
Pretty sure they can't ban certain phones from working, they work on spectrums which are universal across the carriers. I.E There is no way to determine the manufacture of a phone by the phone signal.
They could ban you from importing them though.
Luckily the UK where I live are being a bit more sensible about it and working with the company to iron out any security concerns. The main issue is with 5G, which I've heard Huawei are miles ahead of the competition.
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I'm not saying they would, but it is certainly possible to ban/blacklist imei's TAC and technically carriers could band together and create agreed upon blacklists for phones. I'm also guessing here that if a government wanted to ban certain vendors, then they could mandate that their carriers (carriers are obliged in most country's to operate under government authority) not allow IMEI TAC ranges. I'm commenting purely under technical merit, not legal.
I don't agree with sanctions against Iran but the US is free to pass sanctions agains Iran and the fact that other countries don't pass similar sanctions doesn't render them illegal. What the US government is claiming is that Huawei used shell companies with accounts at US banks and mislead those banks about the fact that the companies were engaged in trade activities that are illegal in the United States.
This might be a comolete political farce orchestrated by a US President that is beneath contempt but that doesn't mean you have a clue what you are talking about when you try to make arguments about what is legal and illegal.
I don't think there is any real possibility of Google being forced to remove its services from Huawei devices sold outside of China. Google has too much to lose as an international company to not vigorously fight any kind of law Trump might try to pass. Trump started his trade war with China to distract his supporters from the investigation into his ties with Putin and Russia and the day after Trump leaves office the trade war with China will be over. It has no support beyond the officials that are scrambling to keep Trump in office.
Phil750123 said:
Pretty sure they can't ban certain phones from working, they work on spectrums which are universal across the carriers. I.E There is no way to determine the manufacture of a phone by the phone signal.
They could ban you from importing them though.
Luckily the UK where I live are being a bit more sensible about it and working with the company to iron out any security concerns. The main issue is with 5G, which I've heard Huawei are miles ahead of the competition.
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However they can determine the manufacturer using the Imei.........
panman1964 said:
However they can determine the manufacturer using the Imei.........
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Manufacturer AND phone model actually.
giz02 said:
Manufacturer AND phone model actually.
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Indeed.
Sidebar (and going slightly off topic):
Have you considered modifying your signature so it doesn't take up so much space (eg look at mine)?
I love your take on this whole fiasco
panman1964 said:
Indeed.
Sidebar (and going slightly off topic):
Have you considered modifying your signature so it doesn't take up so much space (eg look at mine)?
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What is your signature?
The concern about whether it is wise for US government employees to use Huawei phones because of the potential they could be used to spy on communications pre-dates Trump.
Those concerns never extended to consumers using Huawei phones and have nothing to do with Trump's China trade war or attacks on Huawei. This is just Trump being Trump. He is a moron, a bully, a liar and a crook and being president doesn't change any of that.
AT&T and Best Buy dropping the Mate 10 Pro was simply an act of cowardice and had nothing to do with US Law. The Mate 10 Pro was still sold on the shelf at Walmart, Sears, K-Mart and other stores in the United States and also directly from Amazon (unlike newer Huawei phones that are only available on Amazon through third party sellers).
Huawei phones were never illegal in the United States. Huawei chose to stay out of the US market after the Mate 10 Pro because it isn't worth the time, money or trouble at the present time.
The charges against the Huawei executive in Canada have nothing to do with Huawei phones.
ZTE Phones are no longer being attacked by the White House because they reportedly paid a hefty bribe to Trump in the form of subsidies for a resort he plans to build in Asia.
ZTE phones were never banned for use on US carriers. No phone brand has ever been banned for use on US networks or by US carriers.
You don't seem to understand the difference between the loud political posturing of Trump and actual law which are very different things.
Also, anyone who believes Juliane Assange at this point is gullible at best because Assange has obvious ties to Russian intelligence and acted as their outlet when they were trying to manipulate the presidential election on behalf of Trump.
I find it sad that some people here actually take the OP post seriously.
The only thing Trump did was sign a bill banning government and military purchases of a host of Chinese hardware. I'm sorry CNN promised you that Cankles would win. Huawei is the only communications company that makes their own chips, and as such they are enemy #1 to the alphabet agencies in the States - because they want to be the only ones spying on American citizens. The pressure on carriers and major outlets like Best Buy to drop their phones was because Huawei was going to stomp Samsung and Apple out of the entry level phone market, and then the high end phone market. It just isn't acceptable that Billionaires in China would make money on the backs of slave labour in Asia, instead of Billionaires in the United States making that money on the backs of slave labour - while not paying a nickel of tax. And yeah, perfectly normal for the CEO's daughter to be abducted out of an international airport in Canada based on.... sanctions against Iran that the U.N. Judiciary Council has unilaterally denounced how many times now? Just a coincidence that Huawei stock crashed from direct manipulation by western financial systems after China threatened a total ban on iPhones in China?
It doesn't matter *why* Huawei is being attacked from all sides. The fact is, they most certainly are. The laughable part to all this? They are under suspicion of 'spying' because their founder was a former member of the Chinese military. Uhhh.... ALL Chinese companies can be considered to be 'State controlled', and as far as 'potential spying', again you can say the same for any electronic equipment with networking capability that has ever been made in China. There has never been one iota of proof that Huawei or ZTE has uploaded one single packet of information back to President Xi's intelligence apparatus. Isn't it a little late for all this posturing, regardless? Aren't these two companies responsible for 80% of all the Internet hardware on the planet?
I'm concerned about this, because it doesn't look like we are going to get an unlocked bootloader - which puts us at the mercy of a fragile support for a fringe carrier phone here in North America. If the pressure on Huawei continues, I can see them slowly withdrawing from the Western market entirely. If this was a $400 phone, I wouldn't be too worried about the longevity of support.