Firstly what i would like to say is this is not a one click root like update.zip or superoneclick you will need to have some basic knowledge of adb and ubuntu and a little bit working mind which can follow the provided steps.
Requirements:-
*cwm recovery already flashed (if not refer here)
* Working linux distro (ubuntu, mint, kubuntu etc.) with atleast sudo rights
* adb setted-up (if not refer here, may not need to follow the usb drivers steps)
* must know how to use adb
* superuser package from here
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So we are now ready to start
STEPS:-
1. Extract all file (su, busybox) from the downloaded package to the folder where you have adb setted-up
2. open a terminal
3. cd to the directory where you have placed adb and files
4. boot your phone into cwm recovery mode (home power) connect through usb
5. type "sudo chown root:shell /path to su"
6. type "sudo chmod 06755 /path to su"
7. type " sudo chmod 04755 /path to busybox"
8. type " adb devices" if you will see anything attached you are good to go
9. type " adb remount" if you get remount succedd then you can do below steps if not you are doing something wrong do again
10. type "adb push su /system/xbin"
11. type "adb push busybox /system/xbin
12. type adb push supersu.apk ( or what it is called) /system/app
13. now type "adb shell"
14. type su if accepted then you are rooted
15. now type "reboot"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you are successfully rooted
enjoy your phone
awesome guide buddy very useful for n0obs
First of all great guide! But please correct these:
You have to mount the system partition manually. Adb remount won't do it!
adb shell
# mount -rw -t rfs /dev/block/stl12 /system
Do chmod/chown in adb. It isn't enough to set it before copying.
# chown root:shell /system/xbin/*
# chmod 06755 /system/xbin/su
# chmod 04755 /system/xbin/busybox
# chmod 04755 /system/xbin/sqlite3
# chmod 04755 /system/xbin/ssh
if we were able to chmod with adb there was no need to use ubuntu
we cannot chmod it shows operation not permitted as as we yet dont have root
have you tried to do adb remount or just saying that i will not do the work
and thanks for chown part
dheeraj (dhlalit11) said:
if we were able to chmod with adb there was no need to use ubuntu
we cannot chmod it shows operation not permitted as as we yet dont have root
have you tried to do adb remount or just saying that i will not do the work
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!
For me, adb remount didn't work. It exited with an error code. I don't remember the exact error code... (cwm couldn't mount too)
When I experienced "operation not permitted" while chmoding, the partition was mounted as vfat! Because if you do "mount /dev/... /system" without switches, it automatically mounts it as vfat. In vfat you can't set setuid, setgid permissions.
I think it was just a coincidence that i could rooted with ubuntu. But it worked, so better to use linux (better adb perhaps?).
Rooting is a bit strange in this new firmware. For example when you do "adb shell" while the phone is in cwm, you have root access. So you have to do those things manually while you have temporary root access.
how can you mount rfs file system as vfat i dont think it can be done
dheeraj (dhlalit11) said:
how can you mount rfs file system as vfat i dont think it can be done
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it's really strange. I don't know how this thing possible too...
But I checked multiple times with "cat /proc/mounts" , and mounting without "-t rfs" it was mounted as vfat.
a bit of googling:
"You can mount as rfs as Fat in ubuntu and read/copy the files
editing them wont work at all ."
So maybe it is possible.
Related
a friend wanted myfaves but I know there is any easier way than to type mount -o rw,remount and the rest I've tried rwsystem and rosystem what am I not doing?
It says rwsystem is not found
you typing it into adb or the terminal?
RWSystem and ROSystem are custom scripts some devs are placing in their /system/bin. Find a build that has them (I think JAC's do) and then push them to the phone with
Code:
adb remount
adb push RWSystem /system/bin
adb push ROSystem /system/bin
adb shell
#cd system/bin
#chmod 0755 RWSystem
#chmod 0755 ROSystem
#exit
oh ok thanks for the help I appreciate it.
when I type it in it says permission denied. I used both ADB and terminal.
PlatinumMOTO said:
when I type it in it says permission denied. I used both ADB and terminal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you must type "su" first and choose always allow when promted to grant root access.
I did. and I followed all the instructions here it still doesn't work.
do I need to reboot afterwards?
PlatinumMOTO said:
I did. and I followed all the instructions here it still doesn't work.
do I need to reboot afterwards?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you did make sure to chmod 755 them didnt' you
yep I used adb shell chmod 755.
and then used SU File Browser to chmod 755
well one my friend have problem with his HTC Tattoo while he was trying to delete a font from font folder he accidentally deleted the FONT FOLDER now his phone is not working...
is there anyway to fix this problem ?
I suppose that usb connection works, so he can push them to device via adb.
Here is the fonts folder.
Or he can use Android commander: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=628138 to push them in system with an easier way.
can u pls explain how i can do it via ADB ?
Sorry, I'm not a linux expert and I don't know exactly which commands you must give. For this I suggested Android commander, cause you can drag & drop the folder to device's system folder like you do in windows file explorer.
You can also push the folder along with files with the Android SDK... It's easier as it is GUI based...
rre_za said:
can u pls explain how i can do it via ADB ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Unpack the zip file into a folder
2. Connect Tattoo via USB, start recovery, open a terminal and type adb start-server
3. cd into the fontfolder: cd fontfolder
3. PATH\TO\adb push . /system/fonts (please note the DOT!!!! sign)
You're done.
What prob with my tattoo?
I used root1click tool
And I installed Enable Market >>>>> My phone's rooted
but when I try to push font in /system/fonts
ADB say : Permission Denied
Please Help
You need to remount the filesystem with the read-write permission.
Before typing "PATH\TO\adb push . /system/fonts" you need to execute "PATH\TO\adb remount"
I tried
adb remount
adb say:
remount failed: operation not permitted
what prob?
If you type
adb shell
Do you see a # or a $ ? (if you see a $ something has gone wrong with the root)
I believe you cannot remount via adb with stock (didn't try)...install Root Explorer and then try to remount from phone side (there is a button on the upper side saying: Mount RW)
Else do it manually and open adb shell and type:
1. su
2. insmod /data/local/bin/tattoo-hack.ko
3. mount -o rw,remount /dev/block/mtdblock5 /data
4. mount -o rw,remount /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system
Ladies and Gents:
Please help me out.
I am trying to install a "Japanese IME" that sir JMaurice has kindly provided through one of the forums.
Did everything (I think) required in order to get my N1 connected and recognized by my laptop. Then used SuperOneClickv1.5.5-ShortFuse to gain root. Started on the IME installation and got the following.
>adb devices
List of devices attached
HTxxxPxxxxxx device
>adb kill-server
* server not running *
>adb root
* daemon not running. starting it now on port 5037 *
* daemon started successfully *
adbd cannot run as root in production builds
>adb remount
remount failed: Operation not permitted
So I decided to confirm root.
>adb shell
$ su
su
# exit
exit
$ exit
exit
I couldn't start the "adb push" sequence due to the errors above. What am I doing wrong?
Did you reboot after executing SuperOneClick? Try that.
Jack_R1 said:
Did you reboot after executing SuperOneClick? Try that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Believe I rebooted. Rebooted again just in case. Still gives me the following:
>adb root
* daemon not running. starting it now on port 5037 *
* daemon started successfully *
adbd cannot run as root in production builds
>adb remount
remount failed: Operation not permitted
Weird, but already seen on the forum not a long time ago, I think. I'm not sure what can be done in this situation. "adb remount" can be easily substituted by shell commands, root shell you're still achieving by "su", but how to solve this - I have no idea. Might be permissions thing.
Jack_R1 said:
Weird, but already seen on the forum not a long time ago, I think. I'm not sure what can be done in this situation. "adb remount" can be easily substituted by shell commands, root shell you're still achieving by "su", but how to solve this - I have no idea. Might be permissions thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for your replies. Am searching the forums for a similar post; still no luck. Hopefully someone will chime in with an answer.
Thanks again.
You have root, you just don't have an insecure boot.img
Rusty! said:
You have root, you just don't have an insecure boot.img
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please clarify. Where possible, detailed explanation/instructions would be most appreciated.
You have root, that's all fine.
To use the command adb remount, you need an insecure bootloader, as you don't have this (due to using the stock boot.img) you have to mount /system as RW in a different way:
su
mount -o remount,rw /dev/mtdblock3 /system
Rusty! said:
You have root, that's all fine.
To use the command adb remount, you need an insecure bootloader, as you don't have this (due to using the stock boot.img) you have to mount /system as RW in a different way:
su
mount -o remount,rw /dev/mtdblock3 /system
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I am trying to achieve after adb remount is:
adb push iWnnIME/jp.co.omronsoft.iwnnime /data/data/
adb push iWnnIME/[email protected]@[email protected] /data/dalvik-cache/
adb push iWnnIME/libiwnn.so /system/lib/
.
.
.
adb push iWnnIME/libnjubase2.so /system/lib/
adb push iWnnIME/DroidSansJapanese.ttf /system/fonts/
adb install iWnnIME/iWnnIME.apk
This will actaully be the first time for me to use su. Could you confirm whether the following sequence of commands are correct?
>adb shell
$ su
# mount -o remount,rw /dev/mtdblock3 /data
# exit
$ exit
> adb push iWnnIME/jp.co.omronsoft.iwnnime /data/data/
> adb push iWnnIME/[email protected]@[email protected] /data/dalvik-cache/
>adb shell
$ su
# mount -o remount,rw /dev/mtdblock3 /system
# exit
$ exit
> adb push iWnnIME/libiwnn.so /system/lib/
.
.
.
> adb push iWnnIME/libnjubase2.so /system/lib/
> adb push iWnnIME/DroidSansJapanese.ttf /system/fonts/
> adb install iWnnIME/iWnnIME.apk
Please let me know if I am missing anything.
Wrong. You don't need to remount data, it's always writeable, and the command is erroneous - you're mounting system partition and calling it "data". You need to just push the apps to /data, as shown below:
> adb push iWnnIME/jp.co.omronsoft.iwnnime /data/data/
> adb push iWnnIME/[email protected]@[email protected] /data/dalvik-cache/
> adb shell
$ su
# mount -o remount,rw /dev/mtdblock3 /system
# exit
$ exit
> adb push iWnnIME/libiwnn.so /system/lib/
.
.
.
> adb push iWnnIME/libnjubase2.so /system/lib/
> adb push iWnnIME/DroidSansJapanese.ttf /system/fonts/
> adb install iWnnIME/iWnnIME.apk
Jack_R1 said:
Wrong. You don't need to remount data, it's always writeable, and the command is erroneous - you're mounting system partition and calling it "data". You need to just push the apps to /data, as shown below:
> adb push iWnnIME/jp.co.omronsoft.iwnnime /data/data/
> adb push iWnnIME/[email protected]@[email protected] /data/dalvik-cache/
> adb shell
$ su
# mount -o remount,rw /dev/mtdblock3 /system
# exit
$ exit
> adb push iWnnIME/libiwnn.so /system/lib/
.
.
.
> adb push iWnnIME/libnjubase2.so /system/lib/
> adb push iWnnIME/DroidSansJapanese.ttf /system/fonts/
> adb install iWnnIME/iWnnIME.apk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I am starting to understand this. I punched in the first adb push sequence and got the following:
> adb push iWnnIME/jp.co.omronsoft.iwnnime /data/data/
push: iWnnIME/jp.co.omronsoft.iwnnime/dicset/master/njuserphone.a -> /data/data/dicset/master/njuserphone.a
failed to copy 'iWnnIME/jp.co.omronsoft.iwnnime/dicset/master/njuserphone.a' to '/data/data/dicset/master/njuserphone.a': No such file or directory
Checked in tools directory and the appropriate directory/file combination was there. Does this indicate that I have to create the appropriate directory in my phone?
Someone? Anyone?
Or is it possible to execute the same adb sequence in shell as su?
I must admit, I've never pushed more that a single file at a time over, given you appear to be trying to push an entire directory tree, perhaps you might be better off copying it over to the SD card in Windows, and using busybox to get it where you need it.
Exactly as Rusty suggested above me. Otherwise you need to create all the directories manually, through adb shell mkdir <your_directory_that_is_not_on_the_phone> .
Hi,
I have rooted Nexus One which runs on GingerBread. I can open 'adb shell' and then execute 'su' there.
But when I try to 'adb remount', it fails.
Code:
$ adb root
adbd cannot run as root in production builds
$ adb remount
remount failed: Operation not permitted
Basically, I want to copy a file from my Desktop (MacOSX) to /system/bin on the device, is there anyway to do that on my Nexus One?
You rooted a stock OS - it doesn't have insecure boot, so ADB doesn't allow remount and other root commands.
hap497 said:
Hi,
I have rooted Nexus One which runs on GingerBread. I can open 'adb shell' and then execute 'su' there.
But when I try to 'adb remount', it fails.
Code:
$ adb root
adbd cannot run as root in production builds
$ adb remount
remount failed: Operation not permitted
Basically, I want to copy a file from my Desktop (MacOSX) to /system/bin on the device, is there anyway to do that on my Nexus One?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It seems like you are trying a bunch of things without reading beforehand, and understanding what you are doing. As has been said to you before, you cannot use the adb remount command with a secure boot image. If you want read/write access to the /system partition, you need to do the following:
adb shell
su
mount -o remount,rw -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system
Now you have read/write access to the /system partition. No you can copy files from your sdcard to the system partition if you want. When you are finished with whatever you have to do, don't forget to issue the following command:
mount -o remount,ro -t yaffs2 /dev/block/mtdblock3 /system
There you have it. However, if you would have read a bit, instead of starting a new thread for each question you had, you would already have found what to do...
Device is pre-rooted, but only lets you do stuff via terminal. I didn't find a way to install Superuser/busybox on Mac, so I decided to make a simple guide. Took me all of 3min to complete, well since I already had the sdk and everything else installed.
You'll need this Superuser.apk, su binary and busybox.apk, dL the files from here http://d-h.st/BBk, once you have the files installed and launch Superuser it will ask you to update the binary, just click yes. Place the 3 files in your sdk/platform-tools folder.
Open Terminal cd sdk/platform-tools
On your Desktop go to Go…Go to Folder and type ~/.android, open adb_usb.ini and add 0x2836 to that file, save and close.
To verify it's listed:
./adb kill-server
echo 0x2836
./adb start-server
./adb devices
Your device should be listed here. If you want wireless adb access so you're not always hooked up to the console do the following, make sure your device is still connected via usb:
./adb tcpip 5555
unplug console
./adb connect xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (this is the ip of your console, this is listed under manage…system…console info, should be the second line)
You're set, now you can install apps wirelessly to your OUYA console. You need to make the console read/write to do this do the following
./adb shell
su
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/APP
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/UDA
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/CAC
Now we will install su binary, superuser and busybox
./adb push su/system/bin/su /sdcard/su
./adb shell
su
cat /sdcard/su > /system/xbin/su
ln -s /system/xbin/su /system/bin/su
chmod 6755 /system/xbin/su
exit
exit
./adb install com.koushikdutta.superuser.apk
./adb install stericson.busybox.apk
Should be up and running, if this helped you please thank me or donate a couple bucks
You rock!
I was at this for a while before I found your post. I'm on windows, but this is the only thread I could find that had anything useful Mind if I share this around on other forums?
Just link them back, steps are almost identical for Windows. Just need to remove the ./ from the adb commands
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
WinDroidGuy said:
Device is pre-rooted, but only lets you do stuff via terminal. I didn't find a way to install Superuser/busybox on Mac, so I decided to make a simple guide. Took me all of 3min to complete, well since I already had the sdk and everything else installed.
You'll need this Superuser.apk, su binary and busybox.apk, dL the files from here http://d-h.st/BBk, once you have the files installed and launch Superuser it will ask you to update the binary, just click yes. Place the 3 files in your sdk/platform-tools folder.
Open Terminal cd sdk/platform-tools
On your Desktop go to Go…Go to Folder and type ~/.android, open adb_usb.ini and add 0x2836 to that file, save and close.
To verify it's listed:
./adb kill-server
echo 0x2836
./adb start-server
./adb devices
Your device should be listed here. If you want wireless adb access so you're not always hooked up to the console do the following, make sure your device is still connected via usb:
./adb tcpip 5555
unplug console
./adb connect xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (this is the ip of your console, this is listed under manage…system…console info, should be the second line)
You're set, now you can install apps wirelessly to your OUYA console. You need to make the console read/write to do this do the following
./adb shell
su
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/APP
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/UDA
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/CAC
Now we will install su binary, superuser and busybox
./adb push su/system/bin/su /sdcard/su
./adb shell
su
cat /sdcard/su > /system/bin/su
cat /sdcard/su > /system/xbin/su
exit
exit
./adb install com.koushikdutta.superuser.apk
./adb install stericson.busybox.apk
Should be up and running, if this helped you please thank me or donate a couple bucks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's pure luck that this works. There's several things wrong with it.
There's no reason to have two copies of su. There should only be one, and at most have the other be a symlink.
the su binary should be chmodded '6755'.
It works because piping the contents of a file to another file usually leaves the permissions intact. So, sort of works - it leaves a broken copy of su in /system/bin and a luckily working one in /system/xbin.
So, tl;dr, the guide should be:
Code:
./adb push su/system/bin/su /sdcard/su
./adb shell
su
cat /sdcard/su > /system/xbin/su
ln -s /system/xbin/su /system/bin/su
chmod 6755 /system/xbin/su
exit
exit
./adb install com.koushikdutta.superuser.apk
rayman said:
It's pure luck that this works. There's several things wrong with it.
There's no reason to have two copies of su. There should only be one, and at most have the other be a symlink.
the su binary should be chmodded '6755'.
It works because piping the contents of a file to another file usually leaves the permissions intact. So, sort of works - it leaves a broken copy of su in /system/bin and a luckily working one in /system/xbin.
So, tl;dr, the guide should be:
Code:
./adb push su/system/bin/su /sdcard/su
./adb shell
su
cat /sdcard/su > /system/xbin/su
ln -s /system/xbin/su /system/bin/su
chmod 6755 /system/xbin/su
exit
exit
./adb install com.koushikdutta.superuser.apk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks, this was my first time doing anything like this...figured I'd try to hack together something from other guides, since I didn't see very many people with the device yet. I will change it now
WinDroidGuy said:
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/UDA
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/CAC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is really pointless, userdata is already RW, cache should be RW, but more importantly you do nothing that would require them to be remounted
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here. Can anyone help? All the files are there.
TadeoNYC said:
I'm not sure what I am doing wrong here. Can anyone help? All the files are there.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The command should be "adb push su /sdcard/su" (pushing su to the sdcard).
Setup wired and/or wireless ADB
(Optional) Put adb.exe in your Windows PATH variable so you can run it from anywhere
Download and unzip the SuperUser files from http://d-h.st/BBk
Open an ADB shell with elevated permissions
Code:
adb shell
su
Mount the system partition as read-write
Code:
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/APP
Exit the ADB shell
Code:
exit
exit
or CTRL + C
Push su to the sdcard
Code:
adb push su /sdcard/su
Open an ADB shell with elevated permissions
Code:
adb shell
su
Cat su into /system/xbin
Code:
cat /sdcard/su > /system/xbin/su
Create a symbolic link to su in /system/xbin from /system/bin (safer/cleaner than just putting su directly in the bin folder)
Code:
ln -s /system/xbin/su /system/bin/su
Set the su permissions to -rwsr-sr-x
Code:
chmod 6755 /system/xbin/su
Exit the ADB shell
Code:
exit
exit
or CTRL + C
Install SuperUser
Code:
adb install com.koushikdutta.superuser.apk
Install BusyBox
Code:
adb install stericson.busybox.apk
Run SuperUser on the OUYA (Make > Software > SuperUser) and allow it to update
Thank you Elmero.
I'm so glad I gave up and went to bed last night. It could not have gone smoother. I followed the instructions for setting up wireless adb from here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2272266 as well.
TIP: I wasted an hour or more trying to figure out why PC was not recognizing the OUYA at all. It was the stupid Micro usb port, compunding the fact that all the ports are to close to begin with the micro usb port is very deep. Neither of my Samsung cables worked, fortunately I have a kodak pocket video cam and the cable for that is a few mm longer and worked perfectly.
And who said Kodac isn't relevant anymore?
Sent from my Nexus 7 using xda premium
The link to the Superuser.apk is not working.
pdelponte said:
The link to the Superuser.apk is not working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Working fine for me...
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
WinDroidGuy said:
Working fine for me...
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4 Beta
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not working for me either.
This webpage is not available
The webpage at http://fs1.d-h.st/download/00044/BBk/superuser.zip might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is an issue with the website. Just try back until it connects.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 2
just to be clear. once its rooted, can i install any android apk to the console? the one that i've bought from android play market?
tanush said:
just to be clear. once its rooted, can i install any android apk to the console? the one that i've bought from android play market?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1) It's already rooted.
2) You can already sideload anything you want to it, same as (almost) any android device, whether it is rooted or not. (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=41796467&postcount=11)
elmerohueso said:
The command should be "adb push su /sdcard/su" (pushing su to the sdcard).
Setup wired and/or wireless ADB
(Optional) Put adb.exe in your Windows PATH variable so you can run it from anywhere
Download and unzip the SuperUser files from http://d-h.st/BBk
Open an ADB shell with elevated permissions
Code:
adb shell
su
Mount the system partition as read-write
Code:
mount -o rw,remount -t ext4 /dev/block/platform/sdhci-tegra.3/by-name/APP
Exit the ADB shell
Code:
exit
exit
or CTRL + C
Push su to the sdcard
Code:
adb push su /sdcard/su
Open an ADB shell with elevated permissions
Code:
adb shell
su
Cat su into /system/xbin
Code:
cat /sdcard/su > /system/xbin/su
Create a symbolic link to su in /system/xbin from /system/bin (safer/cleaner than just putting su directly in the bin folder)
Code:
ln -s /system/xbin/su /system/bin/su
Set the su permissions to -rwsr-sr-x
Code:
chmod 6755 /system/xbin/su
Exit the ADB shell
Code:
exit
exit
or CTRL + C
Install SuperUser
Code:
adb install com.koushikdutta.superuser.apk
Install BusyBox
Code:
adb install stericson.busybox.apk
Run SuperUser on the OUYA (Make > Software > SuperUser) and allow it to update
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So what steps need to be repeated after the OTA?
from my limited understanding I think it should be steps 4 through 12. Or does the system partition not need to be mounted as read-write again?
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Yup 4-12
Edit
If su is still on the sdcard you can skip 6-8... wont hurt if you do them though...
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professorpoptart said:
Yup 4-12
Edit
If su is still on the sdcard you can skip 6-8... wont hurt if you do them though...
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Click to collapse
Might be a good idea to do them. The OTA version of such is different from the one in this guide. I had tried keeping the stock su and superuser complained
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Do you still have access to the ouya store after SU installed? I heard rumors that access to the store was blocked until root access removed?
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