Database Develop

[Q] Bootloader and Rooting - which one does what?

Hello,
I just got my new Xperia Z having used my ancient Iphone 1G for the last 4 years and I have no experience with Android and anything related to it what so ever. I've spent the last 2 days tirelessly working my way through various forums, guides, wikis to get an idea what I'm dealing with here and where to start, but there's an important decision that I could really use your thoughts and tips on.
After reading up on it, I decided I want to root my phone and this seems to be somehow connected to unlocking the bootloader and this is where I'm worried. I read the guide on how to unlock the bootloader and the warning about losing DRM Keys and the consequences of this scared me away from it. Now I'm left wondering, and this is my actual question here:
What is the difference between unlocking the bootloader and rooting my phone and simply rooting without unlocking the bootloader?
And in case the things I want to do are only available with an unlocked bootloader: how damaging is it to lose DRM keys and therefore the bravia engine and gracenote? What made you decided for or against unlocking the bootloader?
Thanks!

Hi,
maybe I can help you.
Bootloader is like the BIOS of a PC. It checks everything at start up.
Locked Bootloader only allows to run the Stock FW and in this case the DRM-Keys are working (everything is checked and safe)
Unlock the Bootloader means you were able to install an modified / other FW and then you loose the DRM-Keys (the manufacturer hasn´t checked the FW and it is in the eyes of an manufacturer "not safe". You will also loose your warranty.
If you unlock the bootloader Root is always possible as I know.
In this case the system is not from the manufacturer and unofficial modification could be done to the system. Normally all modified Systems have Root access. So you were able to do things that the manufacturer has normally not allowed. Modify system files or something like that. Also it could be possible to copy for example a downloaded and payed movie to another device. This is why you were not able to download a movie on the Play Store if you have root. On a locked bootloader the FW (system) does not give you the possibility to copy the movie to an other device and everything is "safe" (from the view of companies). No illegal copies are possible. (DRM-Keys)
Since some days Root is also possible on a locked bootloader.
The bootloader is checking the status (locked) .. then checking the FW (stock) ... DRM-Keys still valid.
But due to the root access you were also able to modify system files and apps can recognize that you have root access. So you can still use the bravia engine for example (DRM-Keys are ok). But the Google Play Store will still recognize that you have root and will not let you download movies.
This is my experience with Root ... If something is not correct, please correct me

UserX10 said:
Hi,
maybe I can help you.
Bootloader is like the BIOS of a PC. It checks everything at start up.
Locked Bootloader only allows to run the Stock FW and in this case the DRM-Keys are working (everything is checked and safe)
Unlock the Bootloader means you were able to install an modified / other FW and then you loose the DRM-Keys (the manufacturer hasn´t checked the FW and it is in the eyes of an manufacturer "not safe". You will also loose your warranty.
If you unlock the bootloader Root is always possible as I know.
In this case the system is not from the manufacturer and unofficial modification could be done to the system. Normally all modified Systems have Root access. So you were able to do things that the manufacturer has normally not allowed. Modify system files or something like that. Also it could be possible to copy for example a downloaded and payed movie to another device. This is why you were not able to download a movie on the Play Store if you have root. On a locked bootloader the FW (system) does not give you the possibility to copy the movie to an other device and everything is "safe" (from the view of companies). No illegal copies are possible. (DRM-Keys)
Since some days Root is also possible on a locked bootloader.
The bootloader is checking the status (locked) .. then checking the FW (stock) ... DRM-Keys still valid.
But due to the root access you were also able to modify system files and apps can recognize that you have root access. So you can still use the bravia engine for example (DRM-Keys are ok). But the Google Play Store will still recognize that you have root and will not let you download movies.
This is my experience with Root ... If something is not correct, please correct me
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi and thanks a lot for your reply, helped me understand the difference of both better!
If I only root but do not unlock my bootloader will I be able to do anything other than using custom firmware (ROMs)? Will I be able to install Apps that require root or install custom modification like the ones offered on this forum that need to be "flashed in recovery" if I only root not unlock my bootloader?
Also, still looking for some pros and cons (my second question in the original post).
Appreciate all your help!

root will give you access to recovery (in time - still in development) and you can install apps that require root access
custom mods - yes you can install them via recovery and some can be installed with root access and without recovery
if u unlock bootloader you will lose bravia engine not sure bout gracenote as i dont use it
you can check this thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2154310 too see what have people wrote bout
rooting with unlocked bootloader

The main thing pointing me towards unlocking bootloader (I'm already rooted on locked bootloader) is being able to install kernels and major roms.
For example, you could flash Doomlords kernel and over clock the processor a bit, but you could also reduce power and save battery
The major roms I speak of are the ones that are kinda cross device: CyanogenMod and Paranoid Android to name 2. CM is based on pure android, no Sony changes so we can't flash that on locked bootloaders as it requires changing kernel. PA is same.
As for the downsides. I'm not too bothered about DRM keys. I use Spotify for music so don't think I need gracenote. Never watched a movie on my phone. BE2 isn't my cup of tea... Over saturates everything.
I'm going to look into DRM keys more tomorrow, but if someone can correct anything I've written then please do
Not being able to restore via Sony tools... Isn't that bad as you're going to be using flash tool a lot so you'll be used to that. Just keep a generic stick firmware .ftf around in case something goes horrendously wrong (usually recovery backup is enough I think).
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2

Nice thread, I had this question too
It's my first android and I guess I should unlock the bootloader and then root, this way I won't have to wipe my data later when I decide to try cyanogenmod or something else?
Also what happens if sony release 4.2? Will I lose my bootloader unlock and root?

Al Gore said:
Nice thread, I had this question too
It's my first android and I guess I should unlock the bootloader and then root, this way I won't have to wipe my data later when I decide to try cyanogenmod or something else?
Also what happens if sony release 4.2? Will I lose my bootloader unlock and root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would say root without unlock for now.
When you want to try cyanogenmod or others. Just backup everything using titanium backup and then u can restore after unlocking.
Rooting with a locked bootloader means sony are not aware your bootloader is unlocked
Sent from my C6603 using xda premium

Thanks for all your replies, helped me out a ton!
I think Im gonna root without unlocking bootloader for now to get my feet wet and get a grasp of it's capabilities and limits. Can always restore the phone if I screw up and can always unlock bootloader later if I need it.

Al Gore said:
Nice thread, I had this question too
It's my first android and I guess I should unlock the bootloader and then root, this way I won't have to wipe my data later when I decide to try cyanogenmod or something else?
Also what happens if sony release 4.2? Will I lose my bootloader unlock and root?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you unlock Bootloader, you shouldn't update from Sony. Since you've (hypothetically) already unlocked, you already have 4.2 avaliable from FXP and if you really want the Sony Update maybe you could flash it via flash tool. Bootloader unlock will never be lost (until someone can create an explicit relock file, but customs roms won't relock it). Root maybe lost if you flash a rom without it but you should be able to get it back easy.
With locked bootloader, we have to wait for Sony to bring 4.2 as we can't access the kernel, but we retain the ability to use the official updates. If we're rooted and we update, we are no longer rooted and we may be unable to use the same exploit.
Sent from my C6603 using Tapatalk 2

Questions From a Would be Owner

Hello guys,
Just a few questions so I know what I am getting into
1) The phone can be rooted. However, if i want to run on a custom ROM or use mods such as the music mod, I would have to unlock the bootloader, yes?
2) Once the bootloader is unlocked, I would lose the 'Bravia Engine' feature of the phone. What else will I lose? For those who have lost it, is the trade off, of being able to run Custom ROMs and mods while losing the 'Bravia Engine' feature worth it?
3) If I have to send the phone for warranty, I could just re-lock the bootloader and send it back for warranty. Is there a chance somehow that they'll reject the phone if they detected that the phone's bootloader was tempered with?

arvin2212 said:
Hello guys,
Just a few questions so I know what I am getting into
1) The phone can be rooted. However, if i want to run on a custom ROM or use mods such as the music mod, I would have to unlock the bootloader, yes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no
arvin2212 said:
Hello guys,
Just a few questions so I know what I am getting into
2) Once the bootloader is unlocked, I would lose the 'Bravia Engine' feature of the phone. What else will I lose? For those who have lost it, is the trade off, of being able to run Custom ROMs and mods while losing the 'Bravia Engine' feature worth it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No clue since mine isn't/can't be unlocked. The only reason for me to unlock the BL (Even though it can't be done) would be, to flash a custom kernel, beside that I don't see any other reasons why I should unlock it.
arvin2212 said:
Hello guys,
Just a few questions so I know what I am getting into
3) If I have to send the phone for warranty, I could just re-lock the bootloader and send it back for warranty. Is there a chance somehow that they'll reject the phone if they detected that the phone's bootloader was tempered with?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once it's unlocked there is no way back.
So if you want to root your phone, use custom roms (without custom kernels) you don't need to unlock the bootloader.

Dsteppa said:
no
No clue since mine isn't/can't be unlocked. The only reason for me to unlock the BL (Even though it can't be done) would be, to flash a custom kernel, beside that I don't see any other reasons why I should unlock it.
Once it's unlocked there is no way back.
So if you want to root your phone, use custom roms (without custom kernels) you don't need to unlock the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you very much for the reply.
I assumed as such from reading some posts initially, but then I went to the ROM section (If i am not mistaken) and there is a post on how to unlock the bootloader and then there is the Why section where it says that you could then use custom ROMs and mods which then confused me.
If i can use custom roms and mods without unlocking the bootloader, then I'll definitely be getting this phone.

I'll take advantage of this thread to ask one simple question: once we rooted the XZ and flash the Mods we find useful, we no longer get updates from the official Sony firmware in the future, right?

labroste said:
I'll take advantage of this thread to ask one simple question: once we rooted the XZ and flash the Mods we find useful, we no longer get updates from the official Sony firmware in the future, right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First backup your firmware with http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2188129
You can go back at any time to your original firmware and you can have the updates via pcc or sus.
Sent from my C6602 using xda premium

[Q] Unlock bootloader and camera question

Hi guys I'm considering to purchase the Z1 beocz I lose my precious Xperia S a week ago :crying: (very very sad, really love it)
As I'm those type who will definitely root the device and probably unlock it some time later, I really care about the camera problem.
I read the the DoomLord thread which told us to backup the "TA" thing before unlocking the bootloader, so we can restore it and have the camera working again.
May I ask what the "TA" actually is?? how can I backup that thing??
So after I retore it, is the bootloader still unlocked??
If i screw up the TA thing, can I relock the bootloader and save the camera by the official repair function in Sony Update Service??
Sorry I'm noobish but plz explain these things to me thank you!!
BTW, are there something i should consider before i buy the phone?? Is it the right time to buy it??
thank you

Its a partition on the device called trim area.
There is a thread about backing it up and its very easy to do.
If you do not have a TA backup then relocking the bootloader will NOT fix the camera.
Also, do not restore someone elses TA it will hard brick your phone

gregbradley said:
Its a partition on the device called trim area.
There is a thread about backing it up and its very easy to do.
If you do not have a TA backup then relocking the bootloader will NOT fix the camera.
Also, do not restore someone elses TA it will hard brick your phone
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How if I repair the phone with update service after relocking the BL?
And after I restore the TA, is the bootloader still unlocked??
I'm wondering if there's possible to keep both bootloader unlocked and the 20mp camera working...

KWOKSFUNG said:
How if I repair the phone with update service after relocking the BL?
And after I restore the TA, is the bootloader still unlocked??
I'm wondering if there's possible to keep both bootloader unlocked and the 20mp camera working...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Restoring TA relocks the bootloader
There is no way to have an unlocked bootloader and working stock camera

I'm getting a little confused!
After rooting + custom recovery + custom ROM, can I restore my TA to get the camera back? Obviously would like to keep root and the custom ROM.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

amm009uk said:
I'm getting a little confused!
After rooting + custom recovery + custom ROM, can I restore my TA to get the camera back? Obviously would like to keep root and the custom ROM.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Depends on whether the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader. Some custom ROMs don't need your bootloader to be unlocked. So that means you can still have root + custom recovery (which don't need unlocked bootloader) + custom ROM, and your bootloader is still unlocked and your camera is still working.
But if the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader, then restoring the TA will result in the bootloader being relocked, which means your ROM no longer working.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

hush66 said:
Depends on whether the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader. Some custom ROMs don't need your bootloader to be unlocked. So that means you can still have root + custom recovery (which don't need unlocked bootloader) + custom ROM, and your bootloader is still unlocked and your camera is still working.
But if the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader, then restoring the TA will result in the bootloader being relocked, which means your ROM no longer working.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you mr are just spot on.. absolutely correct.

hush66 said:
Depends on whether the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader. Some custom ROMs don't need your bootloader to be unlocked. So that means you can still have root + custom recovery (which don't need unlocked bootloader) + custom ROM, and your bootloader is still unlocked and your camera is still working.
But if the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader, then restoring the TA will result in the bootloader being relocked, which means your ROM no longer working.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fantastic thanks. Hope Sony get round to fixing this soon.
Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

hush66 said:
Depends on whether the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader. Some custom ROMs don't need your bootloader to be unlocked. So that means you can still have root + custom recovery (which don't need unlocked bootloader) + custom ROM, and your bootloader is still unlocked and your camera is still working.
But if the custom ROM requires an unlocked bootloader, then restoring the TA will result in the bootloader being relocked, which means your ROM no longer working.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
u mean " So that means you can still have root + custom recovery (which don't need unlocked bootloader) + custom ROM, and your bootloader is still [[[locked]]] and your camera is still working " ? other than that thnx u clarified things up to me so much

noobs master said:
u mean " So that means you can still have root + custom recovery (which don't need unlocked bootloader) + custom ROM, and your bootloader is still [[[locked]]] and your camera is still working " ? other than that thnx u clarified things up to me so much
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Basically you can only use roms based on official firmware for now (and have a working camera) afaik. All the roms in the original development area (based on AOSP, custom kernels) required unlocked bootloader and as a result have a non-working camera.

Root for Z1 Compact without losing TA

Is there a way to root the Z1 Compact without losing what you do when you unlock the bootloader?

Koenig77 said:
Is there a way to root the Z1 Compact without losing what you do when you unlock the bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Compact roll out a week ago, at the moment there is no way to have Root or anything, the developers are working on it so stay tuned on XDA.

eclyptos said:
The Compact roll out a week ago, at the moment there is no way to have Root or anything, the developers are working on it so stay tuned on XDA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really true though, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2620794
But since there's no older firmware for the Compact you won't be able to backup the TA.
Since that thread was even posted before the launch of the compact, I thought it might be worth asking since alot can happen in a week....

Koenig77 said:
Not really true though, http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2620794
But since there's no older firmware for the Compact you won't be able to backup the TA.
Since that thread was even posted before the launch of the compact, I thought it might be worth asking since alot can happen in a week....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I said there is no root ans still no root yet, that is just Recovery and will be a Root soon for Unlocked Bootlader but at the moment there is nothing for Locked Bootlader.
You have to wait.

eclyptos said:
I said there is no root ans still no root yet, that is just Recovery and will be a Root soon for Unlocked Bootlader but at the moment there is nothing for Locked Bootlader.
You have to wait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Check second post of that thread and then tell me again that there's no root.
EDIT: But for the waiting part you might be right though.

Koenig77 said:
Check second post of that thread and then tell me again that there's no root.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Still no Root for Locked Bootloaders. ..hahah..

Unlocking bootlader
Sorry for being a complete noon when it comes to rooting and bootloader and backups... and what not.
What exactly is at stake here? Just got my Z1 Compact today and learning from my previous devices, N7 and LG G2 (and mistakes) i kind of wanted to unlock the bootloader as soon as possible. Now i am reading all this about TA backup and loosing DRM , and feel both lost and concerned.
Should I bother with the unlock or rather wait until developers has gotten a bit further on this? Planning to use this device as a second phone for rough weather's and hopefully won't fill it up with to much DRM protected stuff (guessing that DRM is mainly for stuff bought through Sony?) so maybe I will be fine doing it later.
Any advice or suggestions are very welcome.
Cheers.

stenbergs said:
Sorry for being a complete noon when it comes to rooting and bootloader and backups... and what not.
What exactly is at stake here? Just got my Z1 Compact today and learning from my previous devices, N7 and LG G2 (and mistakes) i kind of wanted to unlock the bootloader as soon as possible. Now i am reading all this about TA backup and loosing DRM , and feel both lost and concerned.
Should I bother with the unlock or rather wait until developers has gotten a bit further on this? Planning to use this device as a second phone for rough weather's and hopefully won't fill it up with to much DRM protected stuff (guessing that DRM is mainly for stuff bought through Sony?) so maybe I will be fine doing it later.
Any advice or suggestions are very welcome.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you Unlock Bootlader you will lost your Warranty and DRM keys and like on Z1 you should lost X-Reality, Bionz Processing and Bravia engine. Losing this features will not compromise the working of your phone but DRM key definetly will compromise the warranty and if you lose them you will cannot Relock Bootloader anymore. Unlock Bootloader is needed if you want flash custom kernels like DooMlord kernel with recovery. So is recommended to Root first your phone and then Backup your TA and DRM keys so in the case you will want go back to Stock or go via Warranty you have just to Flash Stock FTF and then Relock Bootloader. But like I already said, there is no root for locked bootloader at the moment, and this is what OP was asking but he was just challenge me with Root for Unlocked Bootladers.

[Q]s-off vs unlocked bootloader

What are the benefits of s-off over just unlocked boot loader

by unlocking bootloader u can root ur device, can flash custom recovery & custom roms on ur android device....

shad0wboss said:
What are the benefits of s-off over just unlocked boot loader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't have this particular device but I will tell you the general information and you can work with that.
About Bootloader(Unlocked Bootloader):
The bootloader is like a BIOS of your PC. It is the thing that is powered on and verifies all hardware and is responsible for making connection with the hardware. This can either be unlocked or locked. When you have a locked bootloader you can still root (if an exploit is available). You can even install a recovery or custom rom if an exploit is available (like BUMP was). What was it doing? Signing the images for your so the locked bootloader will think it is the OEM image. In most of the cases this is not so happy. Usually you can't flash a recovery or a custom rom or stuff like that with a locked bootloader. Some OEM's provide websites to unlock the bootloader (with the cost of losing warranty; well not really). This is the case of Sony, HTC. Some Oem's don't provide this.
About S-off:
What does S-off mean? Security off. Your device will come with S-ON always unless it's a Dev edition (correct me if I am wrong). What this does is it doesn't leave you to do very advanced operations related to the EMMC (the Nand chip). You can't flash a bootloader you wish or stuff like that. Update radio partition. In some cases system partition is also secured so you can't flash a custom ROM. By S-off you get full control of your device but if a mistakes occurs you will end up with a hard-bricked device.
Peace. Hope you understood.

neutrondev said:
I don't have this particular device but I will tell you the general information and you can work with that.
About Bootloader(Unlocked Bootloader):
The bootloader is like a BIOS of your PC. It is the thing that is powered on and verifies all hardware and is responsible for making connection with the hardware. This can either be unlocked or locked. When you have a locked bootloader you can still root (if an exploit is available). You can even install a recovery or custom rom if an exploit is available (like BUMP was). What was it doing? Signing the images for your so the locked bootloader will think it is the OEM image. In most of the cases this is not so happy. Usually you can't flash a recovery or a custom rom or stuff like that with a locked bootloader. Some OEM's provide websites to unlock the bootloader (with the cost of losing warranty; well not really). This is the case of Sony, HTC. Some Oem's don't provide this.
About S-off:
What does S-off mean? Security off. Your device will come with S-ON always unless it's a Dev edition (correct me if I am wrong). What this does is it doesn't leave you to do very advanced operations related to the EMMC (the Nand chip). You can't flash a bootloader you wish or stuff like that. Update radio partition. In some cases system partition is also secured so you can't flash a custom ROM. By S-off you get full control of your device but if a mistakes occurs you will end up with a hard-bricked device.
Peace. Hope you understood.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks!
Things is, i was more concerned about the practical info about this device specifically because I have read that with just bootloader unlocked, the roms that i'll be able to flash will only change the visual and not so much with the kernel etc. I don't understand why people would choose to S-OFF for this device for other than just relocking the bootloader.

shad0wboss said:
Thanks!
Things is, i was more concerned about the practical info about this device specifically because I have read that with just bootloader unlocked, the roms that i'll be able to flash will only change the visual and not so much with the kernel etc. I don't understand why people would choose to S-OFF for this device for other than just relocking the bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry I can't really help you with that information I don't know if you can flash a Custom kernel with S-on. Never had a sony. Someone will help you out soon.I hope.

i'l bump this question up then :/

I think S-off is a term unique to HTC devices. Its the equivalent of an unlocked bootloader

tonysunshine said:
I think S-off is a term unique to HTC devices. Its the equivalent of an unlocked bootloader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes but nth to lose on HTC except warranty (still subject to which svc ctr tho) while on Sony, losing DRM keys (w/o backup) are like downgrading ur phone full capabilities.

monx® said:
yes but nth to lose on HTC except warranty (still subject to which svc ctr tho) while on Sony, losing DRM keys (w/o backup) are like downgrading ur phone full capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is there a way to root without losing keys? I have Z3 LTE D6603 atm.
Sorry if it's a dumb question, I'm new here. And also new to sony rooting, which seems much more complex than my old Nexus 5 lol

tonysunshine said:
I think S-off is a term unique to HTC devices. Its the equivalent of an unlocked bootloader
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really, you can flash kernels, roms ( aosp roms etc ) with unlocked bootloader, S-off gives you other stuff like changing mid, cid, sim unlock, downgrading/upgrading bootloader, converting to full GPE or dev edition, unlocking bootloader without need of HTC, flashing splash image, custom bootloaders, even converting to Windows ( if available of course ) locking it instead of re-locking it, restoring it to full stock state ( which is not possible without S-off ), simply put your device has no limits with S-off on HTC.
Anyway S-off isn't really needed unless you care for the things above ( if Sony even has S-off ), Sony has poor development so S-off isn't even needed or unlocking bootloader since basically all you get is aosp roms, stock alike roms are flashable with locked bootloader as far as I remember.
Sent from my HTC One M8 using Tapatalk