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if gingerbread is the future of android devices, it suppose to support hardware capabilities that may not be on the nexus that has been around for a while.
i really wanted to buy a nexus, but it seems that when android 3.0 is out - it should be followed by high end devices by HTC and others.
i really don't know what to do here...
gingerbread is said to launch mid november - not a long time to hold off.
but hey, what do think? wait or buy nexus now?
That is Exactly what I am doing! The desire HD looks wonderful, but i think There will be a VERY nice phone coming on T mobile with new gingerbread already there around Christmas....Just my guess
It seems T mobile and Google have some sort of special deal when it comes to android, like getting stock android phones.....and there MUST be a stock gingerbread phone coming soon!
oronm said:
if gingerbread is the future of android devices, it suppose to support hardware capabilities that may not be on the nexus that has been around for a while.
i really wanted to buy a nexus, but it seems that when android 3.0 is out - it should be followed by high end devices by HTC and others.
i really don't know what to do here...
gingerbread is said to launch mid november - not a long time to hold off.
but hey, what do think? wait or buy nexus now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, Gingerbread will run fine on a N1. Second, no matter when you buy a phone in a couple months another one will come out that is even better. The N1 has an awesome modding scene though.
First, Gingerbread will run fine on a N1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nobody know that for sure...the minimal requirements may suit the N1 but it may lack the ability to perform certain tasks. we've seen it happen with other phones.
Second, no matter when you buy a phone in a couple months another one will come out that is even better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
true for most cases. to me nexus is different from others by design. that phone feels right. i really couldn't care less about all these samsungs or motorolas that are out there. and other htc devices seem too big like the desire HD that was mentioned.
basicly, the world need a NEXUS TWO!
So you think Google will develop an OS using their development phone, but not all features of the OS will work on the phone they developed it on? I highly doubt that. Google debunked the minimum requirements roomer for Gingerbread, that was nothing but a site trying to get traffic. Do a little thinking on the subject.
If I were getting a new phone soon though, I would wait till the next gen ones come out. I do love my Nexus though!
the nexus one was a success in regard of telling the world "this is what android can do right now". others did follow and it is biting the market share making other mobile OS look like code accidents.
none the less, why shouldn't gingerbread allow "facetime like" video service for capable devices? the technology for that is in the wild. that is only one example. i am sure there are more features just like that.
at this point, maybe it would be smarter to wait.
oronm said:
the nexus one was a success in regard of telling the world "this is what android can do right now". others did follow and it is biting the market share making other mobile OS look like code accidents.
none the less, why shouldn't gingerbread allow "facetime like" video service for capable devices? the technology for that is in the wild. that is only one example. i am sure there are more features just like that.
at this point, maybe it would be smarter to wait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Whether or not Gingerbread includes a facetime like option is irrelevant to how it will run on the N1. Obviously any phone without a front-facing camera will not be able to do something like facetime. Gingerbread itself will run just fine on the N1. Without going into any technical reasons, just think of this. Of all the Android phones out there right now, the top ones are all in the general vicinity of the N1 in performance. If Gingerbread wouldn't run on the N1, then you cut out these phones too which means only as-yet-unreleased phones would run Gingerbread. So on what basis are you questioning it?
You should probably wait though since you don't seem sure about the N1. The only guarantee you can have is that in a few months from now an even better phone will be released. And then a few months from that once again, and repeat... Dual core snapdragons will start finding their way into phones at some point soon. If you're not rushed then just wait and see what comes out.
So trying to choose between the Moto X and the Nexus 5, I came across the biggest difference between these phones, their development. Moto X has little to none and Nexus 5 has more than any phone out there. This was an easy win for Nexus 5 I thought. Until I read Moto X users saying that flashing ROMs and kernels are normally to fix issues that the stock versions have and that they don't need Custom ROMs and kernels because what they get is stable, smooth, and lasts long enough (battery wise).
I thought back to why I flash ROMs on Note II and my previous phone SII, and fair enough, I used to do it because I wanted to fix issues that came with stock versions. Now, I hate flashing ROMs, I just want to use my phone. Anyways, looking at the development on the Nexus 5, it seems much of it is to fix the speakers, camera, battery life, etc.
Then I thought that Custom ROMs are important to stay up to date with Google's updates but then Motorola released their update faster than Google did with their Nexus 4. They are also updating their 1.5 year old phones (Not the Razr HD or the Razr HD Maxx probably because of their TI chipset). So it looks like Moto X users are in good hands as far as updates are concerned.
What do you guys think? Would you rather have a fully functional stable stock ROM on a phone that has no development otherwise or would you rather get a phone with tons of development to fix issues that the stock ROM has?
I am asking because there may be an angle to development that I haven't considered. Many customizable things included in ROMs on Nexus 5 are available via Xposed on Moto X.
Until I read Moto X users saying that flashing ROMs and kernels are normally to fix issues that the stock versions have and that they don't need Custom ROMs and kernels because what they get is stable, smooth, and lasts long enough (battery wise).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's a very narrow perspective. There are lots of reasons one might want to flash a ROM or kernel; the "one size fits all" mentality of other vendors such as Apple and Microsoft need not apply here. Custom ROMs open the door to different features that the OEM might not have considered or wanted to spend time on, and allow the creativity of the general public to enhance the phone in ways that are unique to them or only fits a certain niche that wouldn't be profitable for a big company to try and cater to. It certainly isn't just about "fixing issues".
Though custom ROMs certainly aren't the only feature I would look for in a phone, I might hesitate before buying a phone that little support or, even worse, a locked bootloader with no current workaround or hack for the simple reason that even if there's nothing I'm interested in today, there might be something cool that I want to try out tomorrow.
MaxCarnage said:
there might be something cool that I want to try out tomorrow.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you had bought something like the Moto X one year ago, what feature made by the ROM developers on the Nexus 4 would you really want to try out?
I've been debating this myself. I have a Nexus 5 now that I'm testing with TMO prepaid for a month. So far, the phone is really nice and as you said, the level of development is astounding. BUT, I have to leave VZW in order to keep the phone. That's very hard to do when I get a hefty discount on the service and still have unlimited data. I can get LTE pretty much everywhere I go. With TMO, I'm lucky to get Edge data in some places or even a signal at all inside buildings.
I love the look and feel of the X. It's is a great piece of hardware and with the Dev edition, I could stay on VZW. I also like the fact that it runs basically stock Android along with additions that are actually useful and well done. The dev community is very limited though and will most likely stay that way. Moto was quick to get the 4.4 update out but it remains to be seen if that pace will continue. You would hope so but nothing is guaranteed. The X2 may be out next year putting the update schedule for the current model on the back burner.
I had the original Nexus One and the Galaxy Nexus. I've always been a diehard AOSP guy. Every phone I've owned in between has always been on a custom AOSP based ROM in order to get close to that Nexus experience. I'm attracted to custom ROMs not because they fix bugs, but because they allow me to always stay on a current version of Android (no waiting for carrier updates) and add some nice features to the basic AOSP design. Custom kernels can also improve overall performance and battery life even if you decide to stay stock otherwise. The Nexus line will always have the edge in this regard.
I wanted to be blown away with the N5 and content with TMO but I'm second guessing my decision each day.....
darkgoon3r96 said:
So trying to choose between the Moto X and the Nexus 5, I came across the biggest difference between these phones, their development. Moto X has little to none and Nexus 5 has more than any phone out there. This was an easy win for Nexus 5 I thought. Until I read Moto X users saying that flashing ROMs and kernels are normally to fix issues that the stock versions have and that they don't need Custom ROMs and kernels because what they get is stable, smooth, and lasts long enough (battery wise).
I thought back to why I flash ROMs on Note II and my previous phone SII, and fair enough, I used to do it because I wanted to fix issues that came with stock versions. Now, I hate flashing ROMs, I just want to use my phone. Anyways, looking at the development on the Nexus 5, it seems much of it is to fix the speakers, camera, battery life, etc.
Then I thought that Custom ROMs are important to stay up to date with Google's updates but then Motorola released their update faster than Google did with their Nexus 4. They are also updating their 1.5 year old phones (Not the Razr HD or the Razr HD Maxx probably because of their TI chipset). So it looks like Moto X users are in good hands as far as updates are concerned.
What do you guys think? Would you rather have a fully functional stable stock ROM on a phone that has no development otherwise or would you rather get a phone with tons of development to fix issues that the stock ROM has?
I am asking because there may be an angle to development that I haven't considered. Many customizable things included in ROMs on Nexus 5 are available via Xposed on Moto X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am running the N5 stock and have no reason to root or flash a custom Rom. Never thought I would say that about my phone but I am actually content with the N5 the way it is. There are some cool features that devs add in but then you get sucked into this never ending flashing frenzy which I have been in for years.
It is good to actually enjoy the phone now and keep the software on it for more then a few days. lol
Anyway, the screen alone on the N5 is enough for what I consider a big step up from the Moto X. I have friends with Moto X's which I actually recommended to them since they are on Verizon and it was being offered for free on contract. I do think it is a great phone with some great features. Not enough there to sway my decision to get one over a N5 though.
I do applaud Motorola for their unbelievable quick update and I bet we start to see some other maunfacturers start stepping up their game as well. We have seen this recently with HTC also.
The question to ask yourself is what is important to you. Another good thing with the Moto X is it generally stocks with the stock Android feel so it almost resembles Nexus software.
Bottom line, when I turn on my N5 after playing with the Moto X, the Moto X does not in any way make me want to buy one for myself.
---------- Post added at 11:34 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------
fallingd0wn said:
I've been debating this myself. I have a Nexus 5 now that I'm testing with TMO prepaid for a month. So far, the phone is really nice and as you said, the level of development is astounding. BUT, I have to leave VZW in order to keep the phone. That's very hard to do when I get a hefty discount on the service and still have unlimited data. I can get LTE pretty much everywhere I go. With TMO, I'm lucky to get Edge data in some places or even a signal at all inside buildings.
I love the look and feel of the X. It's is a great piece of hardware and with the Dev edition, I could stay on VZW. I also like the fact that it runs basically stock Android along with additions that are actually useful and well done. The dev community is very limited though and will most likely stay that way. Moto was quick to get the 4.4 update out but it remains to be seen if that pace will continue. You would hope so but nothing is guaranteed. The X2 may be out next year putting the update schedule for the current model on the back burner.
I had the original Nexus One and the Galaxy Nexus. I've always been a diehard AOSP guy. Every phone I've owned in between has always been on a custom AOSP based ROM in order to get close to that Nexus experience. I'm attracted to custom ROMs not because they fix bugs, but because they allow me to always stay on a current version of Android (no waiting for carrier updates) and add some nice features to the basic AOSP design. Custom kernels can also improve overall performance and battery life even if you decide to stay stock otherwise. The Nexus line will always have the edge in this regard.
I wanted to be blown away with the N5 and content with TMO but I'm second guessing my decision each day.....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why not go to a MVNO that uses AT&T towers? Would still be much chepaer then Verizon and they offer much better coverage then T-Mo.
[email protected] said:
I am running the N5 stock and have no reason to root or flash a custom Rom. Never thought I would say that about my phone but I am actually content with the N5 the way it is. There are some cool features that devs add in but then you get sucked into this never ending flashing frenzy which I have been in for years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't you want to improve the Audio and the battery life by trying out the kernels and the mods made here?
Anyway, the screen alone on the N5 is enough for what I consider a big step up from the Moto X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I assume you mean resolution? I was under the impression that 1080p and 720p are not that different under daily usage?
It all comes down to your habits. I love flashing new ROM's, I sometimes try multiple ROM's per week. So for me, development means a lot. It's why I switched from the S4 to the N5. The S4 just received 4.3 and was locked down by Knox. Plus, with the N5 being an unlocked phone, you can flash any ROM on any carrier, so you won't ever have to drool over another carrier's ROM.
mjs2011 said:
It all comes down to your habits. I love flashing new ROM's, I sometimes try multiple ROM's per week. So for me, development means a lot. It's why I switched from the S4 to the N5. The S4 just received 4.3 and was locked down by Knox. Plus, with the N5 being an unlocked phone, you can flash any ROM on any carrier, so you won't ever have to drool over another carrier's ROM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also flash a ton of ROMs every week and also used to enjoy it, but I am getting tired of it now... I want to live life more than flash ROMs (if that makes sense)
darkgoon3r96 said:
If you had bought something like the Moto X one year ago, what feature made by the ROM developers on the Nexus 4 would you really want to try out?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Anything and everything. The top reason I don't even consider not getting a Nexus device anymore is the development scene. Look, you're viewing the huge development community on the Nexus line as people who are "fixing" a "broken" stock image. That's not really true. The stock image is perfectly fine. The developers are merely making things that they deem better than how stock handled it. For instance, a developer might think that the on-screen buttons are too large on stock, taking up way too much screen real-estate. They would then develop a way to remove it, but still be able to navigate. They might make something like PIE controls. Now, I may agree that the buttons really are too large, but I like the nav bar. So I might just resize it, instead of working around it.
I guess the point I'm making is, all of those modifications you see to "improve" the stock image are there to "improve" it, but what counts as an "improvement" is completely subjective. There are different people in the world with vastly differentiating opinions about things, so they will make something to improve something else as they see fit. The development sections here on XDA are merely huge repositories of any modification that anyone who was willing to make, made. Looking at them all as collectively-required flashable improvements isn't how it should be viewed. That's the beauty of having a large development community. You can pick and choose, depending on your personal opinions, which modifications are improvements and flash them. Another way to think of it is cookie-cutter vs modular. Do you want a phone that appeals the masses,;a one-size fits all, or a phone that is completely customizable?
darkgoon3r96 said:
Don't you want to improve the Audio and the battery life by trying out the kernels and the mods made here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Battery life has been great on stock for me. Absolutley no complaints here. I have ran so many custom kernels on prior phones and never saw a large boost in battery from them. Lots of times it would actually be worse.
The speaker volume can definitley use a boost and the camera needs some fixing. I know there is some dev work for both of these issues but I am going to hang a little and see if Google fixes it. If not, I might think about rooting solely for those 2 things. If Google fixes it, absolutley no reason for me to root this time around.
Anyway, as a prior flashoholic there is no better phone then a Nexus for people who like to flash Roms and like every feature on the sun. No other phones custom Roms work as good as they do on a Nexus.
Development is like the first determining factor for me when buying phones.
darkgoon3r96 said:
I assume you mean resolution? I was under the impression that 1080p and 720p are not that different under daily usage?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Screen size. A 5" screen starts the sweet spot for a device that uses on-screen buttons. I always felt shorted on prior 4.7" screens with on screen buttons. Like there wasn't enough viewing real estate. Sure you can remove the on-screen buttons but then you would need something that always to longer to activate then the actual buttons being present.
I also think the quality and colors of the N5 screen are just gorgous.
darkgoon3r96 said:
So trying to choose between the Moto X and the Nexus 5, I came across the biggest difference between these phones, their development. Moto X has little to none and Nexus 5 has more than any phone out there. This was an easy win for Nexus 5 I thought. Until I read Moto X users saying that flashing ROMs and kernels are normally to fix issues that the stock versions have and that they don't need Custom ROMs and kernels because what they get is stable, smooth, and lasts long enough (battery wise).
I thought back to why I flash ROMs on Note II and my previous phone SII, and fair enough, I used to do it because I wanted to fix issues that came with stock versions. Now, I hate flashing ROMs, I just want to use my phone. Anyways, looking at the development on the Nexus 5, it seems much of it is to fix the speakers, camera, battery life, etc.
Then I thought that Custom ROMs are important to stay up to date with Google's updates but then Motorola released their update faster than Google did with their Nexus 4. They are also updating their 1.5 year old phones (Not the Razr HD or the Razr HD Maxx probably because of their TI chipset). So it looks like Moto X users are in good hands as far as updates are concerned.
What do you guys think? Would you rather have a fully functional stable stock ROM on a phone that has no development otherwise or would you rather get a phone with tons of development to fix issues that the stock ROM has?
I am asking because there may be an angle to development that I haven't considered. Many customizable things included in ROMs on Nexus 5 are available via Xposed on Moto X.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just got rid of my moto x for the N5 for this very reason. The moto x is a great device and probably the best carrier controlled device to date.
That being said, it drove me nuts to be locked down with a locked bootloader and no development. Knowing the n5 is open and has all the Dev support means I have control over MY phone, not AT&T and not Motorola.
After dealing with the locked down s4, I promised myself I would never get another device without an unlockable bootloader. I caved when the moto x came out and as I said it's one amazing device but at the end of the day, I'll be sticking with nexus devices from here on out.
To me it's not worth giving up that freedom but for you it may not matter.
Sent from my Nexus 5
Development totally cones into it for me. One of the biggest considerations.
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brooksyx said:
Development is like the first determining factor for me when buying phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rootSU said:
Development totally cones into it for me. One of the biggest considerations.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please elaborate. I want to know which features exactly do Custom ROMs provide that you won't be able to get from the xposed mod that you would want that much.
capathy21 said:
That being said, it drove me nuts to be locked down with a locked bootloader and no development. Knowing the n5 is open and has all the Dev support means I have control over MY phone, not AT&T and not Motorola.
Sent from my Nexus 5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I do get the Moto X, then I will get the Developer Unlocked model.
brooksyx said:
Development is like the first determining factor for me when buying phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same here, after my first Nexus phone, I could never go back to a phone that didn't have a strong dev. community behind it. For me; tablets and phones are as much about the journey of playing with ROM/kernel/mods as they are a communication device.
darkgoon3r96 said:
Please elaborate. I want to know which features exactly do Custom ROMs provide that you won't be able to get from the xposed mod that you would want that much.
If I do get the Moto X, then I will get the Developer Unlocked model.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No stock rom mod can touch the stability and features of cyanogenmod. It is the only way to do anroid. In fact I prefer iOS over stock android. But CM is awesome.
brooksyx said:
No stock rom mod can touch the stability and features of cyanogenmod. It is the only way to do anroid. In fact I prefer iOS over stock android. But CM is awesome.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To be honest, CM's future plans SERIOUSLY excite me.. Like that recent conversation feature
CyanogenMod, AOKP, AOSPA support, along with great kernel devs. The Nexus 5 is essentially guaranteed support for these things, and these are things I like.
darkgoon3r96 said:
Please elaborate. I want to know which features exactly do Custom ROMs provide that you won't be able to get from the xposed mod that you would want that much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Who said anything about roms or features? Its all about kernels.
But if you look at ROMS like PAC, you'll see what features true roms can offer over xposed
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I completely understand why Google did this but one thing I liked about the N5 was how it had features other phones didn't. One big one just went bye-bye. http://gigaom.com/2014/08/01/the-go...ailable-for-almost-all-modern-android-phones/
GNL has been available for other devices for a while now.
The apk has been floating around the web since the N5 was released or shortly there after.
I still think the nexus line of devices are still very unique in that they get the fastest updates and developer support is second to none!
If there is a particular developer's work you like to follow, make sure to support him/her to show them your appreciation! :thumbup:
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk 2
Agreed with giant22000. N5 is best
peach007 said:
Agreed with giant22000. N5 is best
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't get me wrong, I love the N5 and have been nothing but pleased with it since I got mine. I liked the fact that I had a launcher that others did not and could not have without going out of the way to get it. Now it is much easier to install for users and I would expect it to pop up more in the wild than previously seen.
pistl_pete said:
Don't get me wrong, I love the N5 and have been nothing but pleased with it since I got mine. I liked the fact that I had a launcher that others did not and could not have without going out of the way to get it. Now it is much easier to install for users and I would expect it to pop up more in the wild than previously seen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I felt like that with the new google camera. I thought they were just going to update it for the N5 but they ended up releasing it for a lot of phones. However, maybe that will speed up new updates for it since it's not just for one phone.
PsychDrummer said:
I felt like that with the new google camera. I thought they were just going to update it for the N5 but they ended up releasing it for a lot of phones. However, maybe that will speed up new updates for it since it's not just for one phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only the Nexus 5 can use "HDR+" (HDR isn't anywhere near the same as "HDR+"), which is closed source (and also limited to Google Camera).
This has been available for a while now. I was running it on my Galaxy Nexus back in the day and, when it hit Google Play, many GPE devices were able to install it too. Now it’s even available on a lowly iPhone (some more detail at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Now).
I'll file this thread under "slow news day."
Honestly I hardly ever used the GNL
Lethargy said:
Only the Nexus 5 can use "HDR+" (HDR isn't anywhere near the same as "HDR+"), which is closed source (and also limited to Google Camera).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah good point. I mean I'm over it now lol. I remember being a bit upset about the lens blur. Even though a lot of cameras have that feature already.
The launcher is by far the furthest thing from making the Nexus 5 what it is.
TheLastSidekick said:
The launcher is by far the furthest thing from making the Nexus 5 what it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This. I actually don't like it at all. Nova all the way.
I hated the exclusive feature of GEL or GNL whatever it's called. Let it be open to all(without side loading)
Why are you upset that others have the option of the launcher ... Sorry but that seems childish
O.T. Less unique is also impossible. Something is either unique or not. There is no halfway.
You bought a phone with unlimited customization capabilities and you whine that the stock launcher for it, the phone that is the DEVELOPMENT device, for the entire Android ecosystem, has been made available to other Android devices?
First World Privilege Problems?
Kids these days...
The nexus series is always unique as it always gets the latest & the greatest android. Google had no plan of making the launcher a nexus 5 only thing. Even in the worst case, I'm sure Google would have at least supported the launcher on the older nexus phones officially. All of it was a part of Google's plan. First they saw how people received the launcher on the nexus 5. Following all the hype, they eventually made it available to all the devices out there.
Remember, Google's primary aim is to make all of its services available to all of its users. That's why they built android. They used android to reach their users & to make their services available to them easily & efficiently.
This really only applies to most of us that mod or like to customize our phones. IMO those people probably already use GOOGLE NOW Launcher anyways on whatever custom ROM they are running. I really dont see how this makes the phone less unique. Apps are not unique, the actual phone is what makes it unique than other phones on the market.
my 2 cents
Hey guys, just a quick question, is Cataclysm rom built off of a genuine stock system.img like the ones hosted on the google dev site? Or is some of it AOSP based? And if it is from stock genuine Android, isn't there some kind of legal issue with that? Just wondering this, I use Cataclysm and I LOVE IT! It's my daily driver! Thanks all!
H4X0R46 said:
Hey guys, just a quick question, is Cataclysm rom built off of a genuine stock system.img like the ones hosted on the google dev site? Or is some of it AOSP based? And if it is from stock genuine Android, isn't there some kind of legal issue with that? Just wondering this, I use Cataclysm and I LOVE IT! It's my daily driver! Thanks all!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The dev had an explanation of how it worked on the original thread. Android is open source and google releases sources for all the nexus devices and they also conveniently package them into flashable images to fix things. There was at least 1 release where the dev had to wait for the source to come out even though the factory images were out in order to do anything. So in short no there's no legal issue. The dev used open source files and modified them for non-profit. The reason no one else really does that type of mod is due to the fact that AOSP mods are widespread and people can just use others' code to incorporate them into the rom (or just use CM). Or if the dev is particularly dedicated then they might use an AOSP base because they want to keep up with all the bleeding edge enhancements to android which may or may not have any real benefit. When you target just 1 device by using its stock rom source then the mods have to be made for specifically that device (and why would anyone create code for 1 device when they could just use what works on virtually all devices) though the Nexuses are evidently similar enough to port between them hence the N5, 6, 5x, and 6p versions. The use of the stock source however meant that you kept the "rock solid stability" that Google's team of software engineers created so the dev could focus on adding features because the base he was working on was solid.
StykerB said:
The dev had an explanation of how it worked on the original thread. Android is open source and google releases sources for all the nexus devices and they also conveniently package them into flashable images to fix things. There was at least 1 release where the dev had to wait for the source to come out even though the factory images were out in order to do anything. So in short no there's no legal issue. The dev used open source files and modified them for non-profit. The reason no one else really does that type of mod is due to the fact that AOSP mods are widespread and people can just use others' code to incorporate them into the rom (or just use CM). When you target just 1 device by using its stock rom source then the mods have to be made for specifically that device (and why would anyone create code for 1 device when they could just use what works on virtually all devices) though the Nexuses are evidently similar enough to port between them hence the N5, 6, 5x, and 6p versions. The use of the stock source however meant that you kept the "rock solid stability" that Google's team of software engineers created so the dev could focus on adding features because the base he was working on was solid.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So all in all, Cataclysm is using stock Android and not AOSP, but done in a way that there are no legal issues? So in essence, flashing the system.img file from the dev site and adding Cataclysm mod to it is the the exact same difference as using the full Cataclysm installer? No AOSP added?
StykerB said:
.... "rock solid stability" that Google's team of software engineers created
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That has a price:
- white ui, grey text on white bad readable; especially with sunlight;
- white background causes battery drain on amoled displays;
- pesky search bar; not removable or change to transparent;
- no option to change to a dark theme;
- N6 full resolution 2560 x 1440 not used;
- N6 native resolution = 493. G. sets it to 560 dpi;
- no option to kill running apps;
- code to use layers can't be used without rooting;
- G-apps not predestinated for layers.....etc.
NLBeev said:
That has a price:
- white ui, grey text on white bad readable; especially with sunlight;
- white background causes battery drain on amoled displays;
- pesky search bar; not removable or change to transparent;
- no option to change to a dark theme;
- N6 full resolution 2560 x 1440 not used;
- N6 native resolution = 493. G. sets it to 560 dpi;
- no option to kill running apps;
- code to use layers can't be used without rooting;
- G-apps not predestinated for layers.....etc.
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Click to collapse
Yes but would you rather not have something solid for people to build on? some of those things aren't even about stability... like the full resolution thing? assuming you're referring to onscreen buttons, and DPI is always on every device set in multiples of 80 for app standardization reasons. The overlay code for layers wasn't intended to be used for theming. Hence why google only used it for stuff like the ATT boot animation. and Google's apps and OS are separate and shouldn't be expected to adhere to a modding community's theme engine that they don't support. And dark themes were probably a design decision rather than actual stability issue.
StykerB said:
.....some of those things aren't even about stability... like the full resolution thing?....
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You're right my list is not about stability only.
Using the N6 now for more than a year. I've seen a beta version with a dark theme, but it was removed. Why? Stability issues ?
To make the N6 acceptable for my daily use, especially battery life and readability, I had to change a lot of things. That has consequences for the stability. The N6 is still stable but I wouldn't say rock stable.
So all in all cataclysm is built using real Android? The main question in this thread lol But yea, AOSP does have it pros and cons as well as stock, I have to play devils advocate here and say that all roms do have their differences.
H4X0R46 said:
So all in all cataclysm is built using real Android? The main question in this thread lol But yea, AOSP does have it pros and cons as well as stock, I have to play devils advocate here and say that all roms do have their differences.
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Yes what he did was use the stock android package. But make no mistake. AOSP is the real android. There are very few diff between what google releases and AOSP. The main diff is thie closed sourced stuff Google adds.
zelendel said:
Yes what he did was use the stock android package. But make no mistake. AOSP is the real android. There are very few diff between what google releases and AOSP. The main diff is thie closed sourced stuff Google adds.
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Thanks! I was never sure just how much stuff is taken out of AOSP, but it's just small differences then. Glad I know that now! And hey, since we're on the subject, how are gapps legal? Aren't gapps those closed source bits that google DOES omit from AOSP? Play store and background things? Like, I know there's some legal thing where gapps shouldn't be preinstalled in an AOSP rom, but what's the grey area with gapps? Thanks again for the detailed description! Learning these things is good lol
If you have a look around, legal means very little here.
Google has only issued a C&D order to CM to not enclude it in their roms. This is why no aosp has them built in by default.
zelendel said:
If you have a look around, legal means very little here.
Google has only issued a C&D order to CM to not enclude it in their roms. This is why no aosp has them built in by default.
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LOL I had a feeling that was the case here on XDA haha but I love Android and the development is HUGE! No other mobile OS can match Google's Android! Thanks for answering my questions man! Appreciate the help! Have a good rest of the night! Or day depending on where you're from, I'm from USA lol
H4X0R46 said:
LOL I had a feeling that was the case here on XDA haha but I love Android and the development is HUGE! No other mobile OS can match Google's Android! Thanks for answering my questions man! Appreciate the help! Have a good rest of the night! Or day depending on where you're from, I'm from USA lol
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Im in the US as well. Well kinda lol I live in Alaska.
Yes it is but that might becoming to an end soon. With more and more people closing off their source. This is a good and bad thing. We will see what happens. Also more and more OEM are gonna lock down their devices so people will have to pic. Things like mobile pay or modding their device.
zelendel said:
Im in the US as well. Well kinda lol I live in Alaska.
Yes it is but that might becoming to an end soon. With more and more people closing off their source. This is a good and bad thing. We will see what happens. Also more and more OEM are gonna lock down their devices so people will have to pic. Things like mobile pay or modding their device.
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Click to collapse
Yea it's awful that people are making everything closed source! I'm a person who loves to tinker with my things, modded game consoles and phones and all, my hobby haha I just hope Android always stays open source! AOSP anyways. And are they starting to make Android devices more secure and non moddable? I hope the Nexus line always stays developer friendly, because I bought a Nexus for the sake of tinkering with it lol
H4X0R46 said:
Yea it's awful that people are making everything closed source! I'm a person who loves to tinker with my things, modded game consoles and phones and all, my hobby haha I just hope Android always stays open source! AOSP anyways. And are they starting to make Android devices more secure and non moddable? I hope the Nexus line always stays developer friendly, because I bought a Nexus for the sake of tinkering with it lol
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Honestly. It because of script kiddies. The ones that just build from others source and post roms. Doing nothing but changing some text. To be honest all it would take is Google to stop pushing code to aosp. Android development would die off at that point.
Yeah if you look at things like Samsung, some devices are not even rootable, Sony, if you unlock the bootloader you lose the camera functions, even China based companies are locking bootloaders. Xiaomi just started doing this and have refused to give some the unlock because it goes against their business plan.
As for the nexus. We should be OK but then you have things like the Mm kernel that was a pain to get root on. And you lose mobile payments. Also more and more apps are looking for things like root and xposed and then refusing to work if they are installed.
zelendel said:
Honestly. It because of script kiddies. The ones that just build from others source and post roms. Doing nothing but changing some text. To be honest all it would take is Google to stop pushing code to aosp. Android development would die off at that point.
Yeah if you look at things like Samsung, some devices are not even rootable, Sony, if you unlock the bootloader you lose the camera functions, even China based companies are locking bootloaders. Xiaomi just started doing this and have refused to give some the unlock because it goes against their business plan.
As for the nexus. We should be OK but then you have things like the Mm kernel that was a pain to get root on. And you lose mobile payments. Also more and more apps are looking for things like root and xposed and then refusing to work if they are installed.
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I've definitely heard of apps looking for root and for xposed framework (both of which I can't live without and use), and a lot of phones from certain companies are completely out of my interest because of no moddability. I wonder if it's even possible to root newer Samsung phones because of Knox security, and I won't even touch an Xperia, I've heard that they merge a lot of partitions, like boot and recovery and things like that, too confusing and not worth it to me. I just hope Android development stays strong in the Nexus scene at least, I love my Nexus!
Also, why do almost all AOSP ROMs have the "KitKat" sounds? Is that just what's released in AOSP? The "knocking" sounds I mean.
H4X0R46 said:
Also, why do almost all AOSP ROMs have the "KitKat" sounds? Is that just what's released in AOSP? The "knocking" sounds I mean.
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To be honest I never noticed. I don't use any of the stock sounds.
H4X0R46 said:
I've definitely heard of apps looking for root and for xposed framework (both of which I can't live without and use), and a lot of phones from certain companies are completely out of my interest because of no moddability. I wonder if it's even possible to root newer Samsung phones because of Knox security, and I won't even touch an Xperia, I've heard that they merge a lot of partitions, like boot and recovery and things like that, too confusing and not worth it to me. I just hope Android development stays strong in the Nexus scene at least, I love my Nexus!
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Click to collapse
I dont think the Nexus line will see many issues other then root becoming harder to get.
Some Samsung devices cant be rooted. Like my buddy that is a samsung fan has a note 4, note 5 and a few Galaxy s5 in his house and all of them are locked down.
More and more people are too worried about things like warranty to even bother really. I even waited on updating the n6 until root was gotten for it.
Pretty sure those can be rooted but you trip Knox which voids warranty. I haven't looked at Sammy phones since I had my S4 but I know the Note 4 and S5 had ROMs.
HipKat said:
Pretty sure those can be rooted but you trip Knox which voids warranty. I haven't looked at Sammy phones since I had my S4 but I know the Note 4 and S5 had ROMs.
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Nope no root for the note 5. Only some can be. The tmobile version doesn't lock the bootloader but the rest do.
As tripping Knox is not an option for many as it voids their warranty but flashing roms does that anyway.
I have had a OnePlus device and never planned on changing that until I did some reading and file system digging. It seems that a deliberate move to stop any rooting or Interpreting files' function is happening from Oppo/OnePlus. Looking around there are a few things that seem out of place like build prop and other things. I've had a few A/B devices so nothing to that affect but it's just weird.
Anyways, i have sent a few messages and will keep doing it and asking for a more formal way if complaining than talking to some low-mid level employee will do. Figuring XDA is one of the biggest groups that have control in the android community I'd ask you turds to hop in with me and see if we can bug them enough because after this crap I'm out of the OnePlus game.
everythingfortuna said:
I have had a OnePlus device and never planned on changing that until I did some reading and file system digging. It seems that a deliberate move to stop any rooting or Interpreting files' function is happening from Oppo/OnePlus. Looking around there are a few things that seem out of place like build prop and other things. I've had a few A/B devices so nothing to that affect but it's just weird.
Anyways, i have sent a few messages and will keep doing it and asking for a more formal way if complaining than talking to some low-mid level employee will do. Figuring XDA is one of the biggest groups that have control in the android community I'd ask you turds to hop in with me and see if we can bug them enough because after this crap I'm out of the OnePlus game.
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You know. Not trying to sound negative, but the amount of regular users outnumber the users that modify the oneplus phones. Won't harm them at all. Love the push on trying to get a answer, but this is bound to happen to all developer friendly phones. Eventually and sad to say I feel the same will happen to pixel devices.
the_rooter said:
sad to say I feel the same will happen to pixel devices.
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Doubtful. Real Android software developers buy Pixel phones too and Google's phones have *always* been glorified dev kits going all the way back to the Nexus days. Google also benefits from the openness of the Pixel platform as it makes it easy for devs to fix things and submit patches so Google doesn't have to pay someone else to do it. Now phones that have been tampered with will undoubtedly find it harder and harder to dodge security checks implemented by devs who believe such mods are a security risk but that's an entirely different issue.
It's also not really worth speculating about the future as there are alternatives right now, like the Pixel 7 series, that are totally wide open for tinkering.
EtherealRemnant said:
Doubtful. Real Android software developers buy Pixel phones too and Google's phones have *always* been glorified dev kits going all the way back to the Nexus days. Google also benefits from the openness of the Pixel platform as it makes it easy for devs to fix things and submit patches so Google doesn't have to pay someone else to do it. Now phones that have been tampered with will undoubtedly find it harder and harder to dodge security checks implemented by devs who believe such mods are a security risk but that's an entirely different issue.
It's also not really worth speculating about the future as there are alternatives right now, like the Pixel 7 series, that are totally wide open for tinkering.
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People said the same thing about one plus. Google is definitely making it harder for the pixel especially going to a/b. Just watch Google will lock down their pixel devices as well and then it be the end of modding devices unless people can find back holes in the software. Guarantee that's going to happen soon.
the_rooter said:
People said the same thing about one plus. Google is definitely making it harder for the pixel especially going to a/b. Just watch Google will lock down their pixel devices as well and then it be the end of modding devices unless people can find back holes in the software. Guarantee that's going to happen soon.
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A/B was never meant to lock down the phone, just to allow background updates and some redundancy so that in case something goes wrong, the phone can revert to the other partition instead of it just bricking. The issues for third party development have largely been addressed by this point. Google hired away the developer of Magisk and still lets him work on it so I'm not too concerned about it for now. My Pixel 7 Pro is fully unlocked and rooted and working great. The only things I miss from my OnePlus 9 are the fast charging and the fingerprint reader that wasn't testy. Everything else I'm much happier with and I highly encourage anyone who's not happy with OnePlus to take a look at the Pixel series.
It's also not relevant what might happen in the future as there are devices that have the openness people are looking for available *today*.
Fuk OPPOPLUS. Nevermore.